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View Full Version : 27 ZR: Has Anyone Put Big Power In One To Run 90+?



Carl C
01-02-2014, 08:49 AM
I'm really surprised that this model was such a flop. Being a single with a full cabin I would say that it would need about 700 hp to bring it to life. What would it take to make it run 100 mph?

Ed Donnelly
01-02-2014, 10:18 AM
Your engine with a blower..Ed
Or twin turbos

mattyboy
01-02-2014, 10:33 AM
seem to recall a 525 boat running about 80. I think the 27zr missed the mark by just a bit the room of the cockpit the headroom of the cabin the plain jane styling the 35 zr seem to have more appeal

BUIZILLA
01-02-2014, 11:05 AM
50%+ of the people viewing the boat at the MIA show couldn't even get through the cabin door..

and those that could couldn't sit upright once they got in

I think they revised the opening and interior seating in later models though, Josh would know

Carl C
01-02-2014, 12:04 PM
No one would expect first class accommodations in a 27' boat but it does have a v-berth and a head. It also has the simplicity and economy of a single. I think it would be fine for an occasional overnighter. I'd still like to see one with big power. I was reading a review of this boat in the 11-2006 issue of Speedboat mag (published by Boating mag) and they were very impressed with the boat and the beefy construction. They topped 70 mph with the base 496 HO.

duckhunter
01-02-2014, 01:24 PM
LRT was running in the 90s with a procharged 500EFI and an Imco shorty. I like the idea of a decent-sized boat with a monster single. Easy access to everything, and care and feeding for one motor and drive. Biggest downside I can see is maneuvering around the docks and the redundancy of twins if you're offshore.

BUIZILLA
01-02-2014, 02:00 PM
LRT's boat wasn't a 27ZR..

but I hear what yer sayin'

Carl C
01-02-2014, 02:05 PM
LRT was running in the 90s with a procharged 500EFI and an Imco shorty. I like the idea of a decent-sized boat with a monster single. Easy access to everything, and care and feeding for one motor and drive. Biggest downside I can see is maneuvering around the docks and the redundancy of twins if you're offshore.

I'm not that concerned about the maneuverability and BoatU.S. has unlim ited freshwater towing for about $35 per year. I had to use it this year for a 30 mile tow when my drive blew. These boats seem to be running almost as fast as 22 Classics because of the stepped hull. Does anyone know if the hull is balsa cored or if the stringers and transom are wood? I'm not a fan of wood in boats. The hull of my '05 22 is solid glass and stringers and transom are composite. The deck is balsa cored but I've sealed everything on the topside where water might enter. I'm not planning to sell my boat right now but maybe in a couple years would like a 27 ZR. Does anyone here have one? I'd like to hear comments and opinions. I'm not real concerned about the small cabin. Is there any type of galley?

DonziM79
01-02-2014, 04:08 PM
Carl have you considered a 26 zx they made them through 06. I believe 99-06 models were all composite no wood, is what I was told but I know my cabin floor in my 99 26zx is wood. I liked the 27 zr too but the cockpit and cabin is way smaller than the 26 zx plus they wanted too much for them. I know the hedgehog went over 100mph with an 850 SCI in a 26 zx. Mine with with a procharged hp500 at low boost (5psi) would run low 80s. They do chine walk after the mid 70s but you can drive through it. I took the procharger off and the boat still runs 73 in the right conditions with a stock hp500. Not trying to derail the thread just thought I would share.

Carl C
01-02-2014, 09:11 PM
Carl have you considered a 26 zx they made them through 06. I believe 99-06 models were all composite no wood, is what I was told but I know my cabin floor in my 99 26zx is wood. I liked the 27 zr too but the cockpit and cabin is way smaller than the 26 zx plus they wanted too much for them. I know the hedgehog went over 100mph with an 850 SCI in a 26 zx. Mine with with a procharged hp500 at low boost (5psi) would run low 80s. They do chine walk after the mid 70s but you can drive through it. I took the procharger off and the boat still runs 73 in the right conditions with a stock hp500. Not trying to derail the thread just thought I would share.

I just really like the looks of the ZR better...... Nothing against the ZXs.

DonziM79
01-02-2014, 10:24 PM
I understand she is quite heavy compared to my 95 22 classic but with two young kids and the wife they like the 26 zx much better. The zr is sweet I just needed something more family friendly. Just wanted to give some perspective in the big singles. The docking is a pain in either case make sure to be patient when making the switch.

Greg Guimond
01-02-2014, 11:04 PM
Not sure exactly what the needs are but a Tuff 28 does 95 mph with a stock single Merc 525 in it.

Carl C
01-03-2014, 07:58 AM
Not sure exactly what the needs are but a Tuff 28 does 95 mph with a stock single Merc 525 in it.

That's interesting but I bet the entire hull is balsa cored. Balsa soaks up water like a sponge. I would only consider a boat with composite coring. 95 with a 525? Seriously? I'm good with mid 80s. I am surprised that no one has dropped a monster engine in a 27 ZR and run triple digits though.

craigdskilling
01-03-2014, 04:30 PM
My buddy had 27zr with a 525 and it would run all day at 73mlp with no mods done.Ill put some picks up I almost bought the boat for a steal with a trailer in Ontario.wife said no way are we having 2 boats.

craigdskilling
01-03-2014, 04:44 PM
the last one is mine I have a video also if you would like to see running full by me.




78602786037860478605

Carl C
01-03-2014, 06:07 PM
the last one is mine I have a video also if you would like to see running full by me.


Videos are nice. :)

Greg Guimond
01-03-2014, 06:15 PM
That's interesting but I bet the entire hull is balsa cored. Balsa soaks up water like a sponge. I would only consider a boat with composite coring. 95 with a 525? Seriously? I'm good with mid 80s. I am surprised that no one has dropped a monster engine in a 27 ZR and run triple digits though.

Yes, 95mph. As I understand it the Howard Bullet used to hold the top spot but the Tuff eclipsed it two years ago. No real cabin though.

duckhunter
01-03-2014, 07:00 PM
Yes, 95mph. As I understand it the Howard Bullet used to hold the top spot but the Tuff eclipsed it two years ago. No real cabin though.

The 2005 28 Bullet that set the single-engine V-bottom record at 130mph (with 1200hp) is for sale for $73k. And it's all composite... Neat boat!

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/25813

ETA: Here's the ad: 2005 Howard 28 Bullet Composite, yes this is the fastest single engine V bottom ever tested at over 122MPH, has gone 130.10 MPH.1200HP fresh Teague motor and brand new Imco SCX drive. This boat has been on the cover of two magazines and holds the single engine V-Bottom speed record at 130.10mph. Stored indoors its entire life. All composite layup. Dana Hyd hinges, dual imco Hyd steering, GPS and full data logger and screen displays, everything billet,Newer updated carbon fiber interior, cover,TCM 1200 HP with 5L Whipple Supercharger, currently running a 1200hp pump gas program. Engine new as of 2010-11. Has been fully gone through by Teague 25hrs ago and has zero hours on a full service . Less than 20hrs on a $25K brand new IMCO SCX - SCT zero hours on last service. Brand new stereo: Dual Alpine Digital AMPS. 1x 12" dual ported subwoofer; 4x 8" woofers; 4x 6.5" 2x 6x9" 3x brand new batteries stored on trickle charger. Custom triple axle disc brake trailer with chrome wheels and fenders. Boat looks new, and was over $180,000, buy it for only $72,500 you will never find a better deal if you want the best and fastest boat on the water then you just found it.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/powerimg/m/25813/main.jpg

Greg Guimond
01-03-2014, 07:09 PM
1200 HP ..............holy moly!!

farmer tx
01-04-2014, 01:07 AM
I saw this Howard Bullet at Lake Powell 3 years ago. After boating every day he, his wife and three daughters were like a detail team. That boat was spotless and very well rigged. Of all the West coast boats I have seen at Lake Powell and Lake Havasu this boat impressed me more than any.

Mark

joseph m. hahnl
01-04-2014, 09:50 AM
Kak noxy comrades! :beer: Not to bash the Zx,:popcorn: as they are still :worthy:worthy of the awesome award . But there is a reason why they were fazed out.:hangum: The steps have been drastically changed from the Zx to the Zr. As we all no, if the ventilation is cut off the boat can spin out. :shocking: "Prime example"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkiU5qzEIE. A hard steer, he stuffed the vents and rolled a 45 foot boat. The Zr's ventilation has been redesigned to help alleviate that condition and, It was not a suttle change. Did it work?:crossfing: I haven't ever heard of a Zr. ejecting any one,:doh: so perhaps it did!:superman: I think Carl: You'll be right at home in one . They came with the 525 option.:hyper: Videos "are" GREAAAAAAT:propeller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUoB8cZw674

Greg Guimond
01-04-2014, 10:24 AM
I saw this Howard Bullet at Lake Powell 3 years ago. After boating every day he, his wife and three daughters were like a detail team. That boat was spotless and very well rigged. Of all the West coast boats I have seen at Lake Powell and Lake Havasu this boat impressed me more than any.

Mark

Howard Custom Boats tends to be over the top with detail and rigging for a production shop. Any Dad that can get four gals to pitch in at the end of the day deserves an award!

Greg Guimond
01-04-2014, 11:53 AM
Here is a video of the Tuff 28 ..........

http://www.tuffmarine.com/video/tuff_video_3.html

Conquistador_del_mar
01-04-2014, 12:17 PM
Any Dad that can get four gals to pitch in at the end of the day deserves an award!

I was thinking the same thing, but my wife backs the trailer at the end of the day and starts toweling the boat as soon as we get it up the ramp. I actually see quite a few women pitch in to help around here.


It sure seems that this Howard would be worth the relatively high asking price to someone interested in going that fast.

duckhunter
01-04-2014, 12:52 PM
I was thinking the same thing, but my wife backs the trailer at the end of the day and starts toweling the boat as soon as we get it up the ramp. I actually see quite a few women pitch in to help around here.


It sure seems that this Howard would be worth the relatively high asking price to someone interested in going that fast.

Seems like a good deal to me too. A lazy 85mph cruise speed will get you to lunch QUICK! The Howard is a good proof-of-concept for the big single-engine go-fast, just at the upper end of the spectrum.

I've gotta throw in a compliment for my wife and daughter, they are pretty good about managing lines & fenders and washing the boat. Still working on the trailer backing...

Greg Guimond
01-04-2014, 12:58 PM
The dealer that has the Howard always takes in ultra mint stuff. That boat has been for sale for at least a year, folks are probably afraid of the upkeep costs associated with 1200hp :eek:

Carl C
01-04-2014, 01:00 PM
Good stuff. The Tuff is impressive but not for me. I've always liked the 27 ZR with at least a 525. Mid 80s satisfies my need for speed and the small cabin would be fine for overnighting a couple times a year at PIB. Anyway, I will keep my 22 for at least a couple more years. Just looking toward the future. Is the 27 ZR hull balsa or composite cored?

craigdskilling
01-04-2014, 01:10 PM
I now the builder of the tuff boats Mark great guy he has a shop in Cambridge Ontario really nows his stuff.2 years ago when we had a donzi get together in the muskokas I told him to join us he tried to find us and he did but to late we were in the locks when caught up to us, I went to his cottage later and me and my kids went out in the 28 with the outboards I think we saw 85 or so mlp.Good times.

yeller
01-04-2014, 02:11 PM
I'm with you on the 27zr Carl. I'm surprised almost all of them only have the HO. I think a 525 or whippled 525 27zr would make a great step up from the 22.


The hull of my '05 22 is solid glass and stringers and transom are composite. The deck is balsa cored but I've sealed everything on the topside where water might enter. Are you positve your stringers are composite? My 04 has compostite transom, but stringers are wood.

roadtrip se
01-04-2014, 02:37 PM
The 2005 28 Bullet that set the single-engine V-bottom record at 130mph (with 1200hp) is for sale for $73k. And it's all composite... Neat boat!

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/25813

ETA: Here's the ad: 2005 Howard 28 Bullet Composite, yes this is the fastest single engine V bottom ever tested at over 122MPH, has gone 130.10 MPH.1200HP fresh Teague motor and brand new Imco SCX drive. This boat has been on the cover of two magazines and holds the single engine V-Bottom speed record at 130.10mph. Stored indoors its entire life. All composite layup. Dana Hyd hinges, dual imco Hyd steering, GPS and full data logger and screen displays, everything billet,Newer updated carbon fiber interior, cover,TCM 1200 HP with 5L Whipple Supercharger, currently running a 1200hp pump gas program. Engine new as of 2010-11. Has been fully gone through by Teague 25hrs ago and has zero hours on a full service . Less than 20hrs on a $25K brand new IMCO SCX - SCT zero hours on last service. Brand new stereo: Dual Alpine Digital AMPS. 1x 12" dual ported subwoofer; 4x 8" woofers; 4x 6.5" 2x 6x9" 3x brand new batteries stored on trickle charger. Custom triple axle disc brake trailer with chrome wheels and fenders. Boat looks new, and was over $180,000, buy it for only $72,500 you will never find a better deal if you want the best and fastest boat on the water then you just found it.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/powerimg/m/25813/main.jpg



Look at the Howard, again. It's more of a sit down boat with low freeboard, a river runner. Not an offshore style boat, like the 27ZR.
So what? Well, the CG would be completely different in the ZR and the Howard.

I ran a Fountain 27 with 600HP and ran out of hull very quickly at 90. The boat wanted to walk all over the place in the rear.
There is a Fountain 29 with a 600Sci in our circles, and his boat wants to do some interesting things at top end, too. Both these
boats are more comparable to the Donzi ZR in freeboard, size, weight, and wetted surface. Big power over a 500/525 doesn't work
very well. I don't think it would work very well with the 27ZR, either.

I have been in and run with the 26ZX with big power. You could put the ZR inside of the ZX, it's that much bigger. This hull will respond
a lot better to extreme power than the 27ZR ever would in my opinion.

Carl C
01-05-2014, 11:04 AM
When I reinforced my engine room I rebored the drain holes at the back of the stringers. What came out was a white powder that sure looked like a composite material.

The 27 Fountain doesn't compare at all. It's a heavier boat than a 27 ZR and it runs on a 24' running surface. That's only 1 1/2 feet longer than a 22 C.

roadtrip se
01-05-2014, 02:08 PM
When I reinforced my engine room I rebored the drain holes at the back of the stringers. What came out was a white powder that sure looked like a composite material.

The 27 Fountain doesn't compare at all. It's a heavier boat than a 27 ZR and it runs on a 24' running surface. That's only 1 1/2 feet longer than a 22 C.


Go do your research. I think you will find that the Fountain 27 and 29 are right in the same ballpark statistically, as the 27ZR, overall.
And there were a lot more examples of these boats built, tuned, and raced than Donzi ever produced of the 27ZR. The boats did well with blue power.
There were a few 29s built with 575s, but they were hairy beasts, too, at just over 80.

Reality? The 27ZR wasn't that great of a boat for the money, and didn't perform very well with standard power, so whether you think the comparison is
valid or not, big power isn't going to improve the boat much, which is what I stated here earlier.

Carl C
01-05-2014, 03:11 PM
I guess the 27 Fever is comparable to the 27ZR. I think the Donzi looks much better though. It's winter and I'm just kicking around ideas where I might be in the future. I could afford to purchase a dual 525 38 or 35 ZR but I couldn't afford to maintain, tow, store, insure or run it. For now I will continue to enjoy the 22 since I have a lot of work and money getting it just where I want it.

joseph m. hahnl
01-05-2014, 09:20 PM
It's all conjecture :smash: The similarity between a Zr and a Fever end at, boats with ventilation steps. I'm sure economics played the key part in the 27's demise not it's performance:checkered:.
Maybe the people who own the Zr 27s are content with Steppenwolf and 70 mph out of the box with a 496:propeller:. They have no need for super chargers, or AC:lightningDC :D

The Hedgehog
01-05-2014, 09:28 PM
Go do your research. I think you will find that the Fountain 27 and 29 are right in the same ballpark statistically, as the 27ZR, overall.
And there were a lot more examples of these boats built, tuned, and raced than Donzi ever produced of the 27ZR. The boats did well with blue power.
There were a few 29s built with 575s, but they were hairy beasts, too, at just over 80.

Reality? The 27ZR wasn't that great of a boat for the money, and didn't perform very well with standard power, so whether you think the comparison is
valid or not, big power isn't going to improve the boat much, which is what I stated here earlier.

They did a 29 with a 600 and it was a runner. I think the version I saw had a Whipple upgrade and yes, it was scary. Just like most boats that size in the 90 mph range.

Those Howard's are tiny. I would rather be in a 22 classic!

mattyboy
01-07-2014, 11:18 AM
here is an early 27zx in your color looks like a clean boat would imagine without the step might be a bit slower but probably rides the bigger stuff pretty well.

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/bod/4266191265.html

MDonziM
01-07-2014, 10:49 PM
I've never been on a 27zr but I remember hearing that they like to spin out, not a hull I would want to put big power in. I think any ventilated hulls under 30' can be dodgy in rough water, which makes this OL 29 all the more impressive. 90+ with a 525 supposedly. (Not to get off topic)

smokediver
01-08-2014, 01:38 AM
When I reinforced my engine room I rebored the drain holes at the back of the stringers. What came out was a white powder that sure looked like a composite material.

The 27 Fountain doesn't compare at all. It's a heavier boat than a 27 ZR and it runs on a 24' running surface. That's only 1 1/2 feet longer than a 22 C.

Having owned a step bottom 27 fever I can tell you it was very well built and hauled the mail with a 496 mag ho

Carl C
01-08-2014, 03:58 PM
Good deal on the 27 Fever then. Fountain used to be my dream boat but not anymore. I'm also not crazy about the idea of a stepped hull, just kicking around ideas. I'd like to stay in the Donzi family and will be keeping the 22 for the foreseeable future. We'll see what happens then. I really like some of the Formulas too. If money was not a factor then it would be a 38 ZR with 525s or bigger.

mattyboy
01-09-2014, 06:52 AM
I've never been on a 27zr but I remember hearing that they like to spin out, not a hull I would want to put big power in. I think any ventilated hulls under 30' can be dodgy in rough water, which makes this OL 29 all the more impressive. 90+ with a 525 supposedly. (Not to get off topic)


Marshall

that 29 OL is off the hook the non capsule boat is awesome too.

http://www.outerlimitspowerboats.com/SV29.htm

MDonziM
01-09-2014, 08:39 AM
Hey Matty - I didn't see their new performance claim with a 565, 98mph, completely blows my mind. I love the classics/ old school but that is incredible, thanks.

osur866
01-10-2014, 12:36 PM
I've seen the 29' OL's run @ LOTO and it is a bad mofo, as it should be for the $$ big difference in the 27 ZR's bottom compared to the 29 OL's big difference!!!

mattyboy
01-14-2014, 07:54 AM
I've seen the 29' OL's run @ LOTO and it is a bad mofo, as it should be for the $$ big difference in the 27 ZR's bottom compared to the 29 OL's big difference!!!

yes a big difference the 27zr is an entry level go fast while the 29 ol is the entry level to their brand and pedigree

like the 30 vice was for the Cigarette brand back a few years ago.

with the 27 zr i never understood why they didn't carry the graphics of the larger ZRs over. if you look at the 22zx they had the same graphics as the larger ZXs making the line more uniform top to bottom