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ted z
12-24-2013, 07:12 AM
Any one have any suggestions on where to get a 383 long block for my 18? I am in NJ but I guess having one shipped in would be ok. Just a little worried with all the horror stories or guys buying engines that don't last 10 hours. Looking to get near the 400 hp mark, and does anyone think my EFI in my 95/18 would be able to support it?/EFI upgrades?Thankyou

mattyboy
12-24-2013, 07:27 AM
not sure where you are in NJ, in northern Jersey these guys are very good. I used them for my motor door to door service

http://www.promarperformanceengines.com/marine.asp

johnnywhale
12-24-2013, 10:12 AM
A friend is thinking of one of these, have to go with a closed cooling system, though.
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/small-block-zz-383.html

MOP
12-24-2013, 02:12 PM
If you are half way decent with wrenches you can build one, grab a good 4 bolt block have it bored .030 and put a Summit kit in it. It is pretty easy and there is plenty of instructional advice on the net, then you will know it is done right. You can do one for around $2,500 all inclusive. I 100% agree with closed cooling, running higher engine temps make better HP and keep internals in much better condition. I ran a 180 Tstat on my 383, when you looked in my oil fill everything glistened not a trace of white muck. The white muck causes corrosion mainly on valve springs.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-csum383-19?seid=srese1&gclid=CNeAr-fHybsCFVLxOgodcRsAeA

OR Complete

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bp3830ctc1?seid=srese1& gclid=CITIlM7HybsCFUjNOgod5DgAdw

FREE SHIPPING ON ALL OF THE ABOVE


(http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bp3830ctc1?seid=srese1&gclid=CITIlM7HybsCFUjNOgod5DgAdw)

duckhunter
12-24-2013, 03:30 PM
I've done quite a bit of research on marine 383s but haven't dropped the hammer on one. There are some nice pieces out there from big name builders, but they are prohibitively expensive. Also a lot of $2000 ebay specials that I wouldn't trust in a boat for more than a season. Probably do great in a car that sees 5k rpm once or twice a month, but not nearly robust enough for marine use. There's surely a sweet spot somewhere in the middle, but I can't tell you exactly what that is; one of the remanned Merc 383s from Michigan Motorz is probably pretty close.

My inclination is to build one myself so I know what's in it and know who to blame if it craps the bed. A really robust, bullet-proof bottom end would provide a lot of confidence when you drop the hammer. Good new blocks are not much more than a used block after machine work, so I would start with a fresh block (probably Dart). Summit and others also have prepped 383 blocks for less than you could get it done yourself. Scat 383 kits are supposed to be better than the Eagle stuff, and I think the forged is worth the extra cost for this application. Forged crank / pistons / rods, plus bearings & rings is just over a grand - God bless the small block Chevy.

Stock Vortec heads with screw-in studs and beehive springs will support 400hp, but my preference would be some AFR 195s or other aftermarket aluminum heads, particularly with closed cooling. Getting away from the 64cc Vortec heads also opens up way more options for pistons without going over a 9.5CR. Call Bob Madera at Marine Kinetics for a custom hydraulic roller cam based on the rest of the build, or for out of the box Comp and others have some great cams in the 270 duration range. Rest of the valvetrain based on whatever the cam manufacturer recommends. Stainless intake and inconel exhaust valves would be a plus. Marine head gaskets for sure, and good ARP hardware.

No idea on your EFI supporting 400hp, but there are very few folks that can tune the stock MEFI box. I like EFI, but from a practicality and cost standpoint I'd throw a 750cfm carb on there and call it good. Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap is a good intake, as are the regular RPM and a lot of other high-rise dual-planes.

Exhaust - probably GLM aluminum manifolds and some SS risers.

Ignition - stock TBIV or V.

Tin - big ass 7+qt oil pan with a windage tray. Valve covers are tough on the SBC to find something that will fit with roller rockers and still clear your exhaust (especially center-bolt). Pretty sure you can hog out the oil baffles in the stockers and clear everything.

Doing it yourself the right way is a $5k+ proposition depending on how much of your current setup you can reuse, but it would be a reliable 400hp and pretty darn satisfying. I would rather go that route and have a premium motor vs. one of the online specials that I would never personally trust. Or find a local builder and work closely with him to get what you want; he may be able to source the parts a little cheaper as well.

If you find the holy grail of stout marine 383s in your hunt please let me know!

ted z
12-25-2013, 06:00 AM
OK.... here come the questions. What is the difference with a marine block and a car block? What do you mean with a closed cooling system, radiator and coolant? And who does the EFI upgrades.BTW Merry Christmas

MOP
12-25-2013, 09:28 AM
The blocks are the same with the exception of brass core plugs, in automotive use they are steel. IMO anyone can build one if they do the research and have what I call half way decent hands. It is not rocket science! Take your time it will come out great, it will give you a great sense of pride!

joseph m. hahnl
12-25-2013, 09:36 AM
OK.... here come the questions. What is the difference with a marine block and a car block? What do you mean with a closed cooling system, radiator and coolant? And who does the EFI upgrades.BTW Merry Christmas There is no difference between a car block and a boat block. Other than freeze plug material, the cam shaft is what makes it for marine use. Closed cooling uses a heat exchanger with coolant running through the block and "optional" exhaust manifolds .Which in turn, is cooled by the cold water "raw water" as it goes through the heat exchanger exiting through the exhaust stream:biggrin:


I chose a virgin 400 Dart block, internally balance, all forged rotating assembly. Bolt on 350 stuff galore :kingme: Inconel valves are not necessary for naturally aspirated engines:worthy:


[EDIT] :censored: always insure that the engine has at least stainless valves on both intake and exhaust:tongue:


Check out my latest video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6Zp2hluaVw

mattyboy
12-25-2013, 12:31 PM
you'll find a wide variety of knowledge here and all the help you may need. I just R&R'd my ford small block I am well versed in rigging and wiring but motor wise not so much. I was concerned with changing things on my older boat which might cause drilling and sawing on the existing solid setup. I decided to rebuild what was there and tweak under the builders recommendations. I fitted and installed the longblock assembly with some help.

the main hurdles I found were that there are different changes that occurred over the years on the ford marine setup . fly wheel sizes tinware changes and the like. In most causes doing it myself I learned the hard way but i got it together and running with only minor issues.

the best advice I can give is to have a plan and make sure that any changes you make don't effect something else down the line.

Building a hotter motor may require the addition of a non stock exhaust then you have to think will it fit what will change anything else like if there are other things bolted to the risers.

one good thing about doing it yourself is even mistakes pay off as you know more about your setup and can keep ongoing maint. costs down by DIY

joseph m. hahnl
12-25-2013, 11:19 PM
you'll find a wide variety of knowledge here and all the help you may need. I just R&R'd my ford small block I am well versed in rigging and wiring but motor wise not so much. I was concerned with changing things on my older boat which might cause drilling and sawing on the existing solid setup. I decided to rebuild what was there and tweak under the builders recommendations. I fitted and installed the longblock assembly with some help.

the main hurdles I found were that there are different changes that occurred over the years on the ford marine setup . fly wheel sizes tinware changes and the like. In most causes doing it myself I learned the hard way but i got it together and running with only minor issues.

the best advice I can give is to have a plan and make sure that any changes you make don't effect something else down the line.

Building a hotter motor may require the addition of a non stock exhaust then you have to think will it fit what will change anything else like if there are other things bolted to the risers.

one good thing about doing it yourself is even mistakes pay off as you know more about your setup and can keep ongoing maint. costs down by DIY


GM 350 blocks have all kinds of changes too! The oil pan changed three times, partially due to the one and two piece rear main seal. That made the crank shaft and fly wheel bolt circle change and they also bumped up the dia of the fly wheel at the same time. Then roller tappets came along and they modified the block, changed the camshaft bolt circle , thrust plate, and timing gear set. The Cam shaft thrust plate rotates 90 degrees and is larger for the Vortec. There's also an optional larger water pump. Big Blocks adopted most of the rev changes also:yes:

To give you an idea what I had to contend with the Dart 400. First it uses 2 piece rear main seal, so it uses 1985 oil pan (thick gasket, passenger side dipstick) . It uses the 1988 roller valve train and timing gear set. To use the Alpha coupler I needed a newer 168 tooth:biggrin: fly wheel with the older 153 tooth's:tooth: bolt circle dia. Also steam holes are not required in the heads so you don't use 400 gaskets you use 350 gaskets:boggled:

johnnywhale
12-26-2013, 07:06 AM
My 383 was considerably more than 5k
Scat forged / Mahle kit ~ 1800
AFR heads ~ 2000
Retro roller / good rockers / pushrods / adj timing chain etc ~ 1000
Intake / carb / MSD ignition ~ 1000
Misc - ARP head bolts / ARP hardware / Adj Thrust timing cover / HD Mini starter / SFI Balancer / Cometic gaskets ~ 1600
Machine work - Bore w/ plate / deck / cam brgs 1000
New Stainless Marine Exhaust off Ebay 1000

Granted, I started with an empty engine bay, and bought top of line stuff, but still it's the little things that add up, I had to try two sets of pushrods to get geometry right, and that was on top of using adjustable one to get length.

That's why my friend is looking at the zz383 and marinizing (spelling?) it.
Johnny

tmdog
12-26-2013, 08:01 AM
[QUOTE=joseph m. hahnl;

To give you an idea what I had to contend with the Dart 400. First it uses 2 piece rear main seal, so it uses 1985 oil pan (thick gasket, passenger side dipstick) . It uses the 1988 roller valve train and timing gear set. To use the Alpha coupler I needed a newer 168 tooth:biggrin: fly wheel with the older 153 tooth's:tooth: bolt circle dia. Also steam holes are not required in the heads so you don't use 400 gaskets you use 350 gaskets:boggled:[/QUOTE]

Are you sure about the one and two piece rear main seal? Dart does make a block w/ one pc. main. Ordered mine one week ago. Having it bored and decked to a 406.

Dart is raising prices first of year if anyone is interested.

joseph m. hahnl
12-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Are you sure about the one and two piece rear main seal? Dart does make a block w/ one pc. main. Ordered mine one week ago. Having it bored and decked to a 406.

Dart is raising prices first of year if anyone is interested.


The one piece is an option that wasn't available through my short block builder.:wrench: Skip White was selling 406 one piece blocks. The pre assembled and internally balanced short block was to sweet of a deal, to chase White:tooth: around for parts. He sold me this bastard aluminum oil pan it was a passenger side, thin gasket. He boasted about using one piece gaskets that were non existent:biggrin: The moral of the story is GM changed to a thicker gasket when the dip stick was still on the drivers side:rlol:

ted z
12-31-2013, 07:21 AM
Well I guess a stroker is in my future, but not until I figure out a fuel system upgrade. My 95 350 mag EFI fuel system got the job done with no issues. But that engine was 300hp, I'm afraid it will run 375-400hp to lean and burn it up. I really didn't want to go with a carb. Would have liked to put everything back the way it was with just a manifold upgrade.

mattyboy
12-31-2013, 11:23 AM
good luck keep us posted

mattyboy
01-01-2014, 02:20 PM
one thing that should be noted with the merc remanned stroker 383 400 be careful of the cmi headers they are not the best