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clayman
09-05-2013, 10:11 AM
Gentleman. I know I have been very quiet around here. But I lurk when I have a chance. But good news, I still have and enjoy my 1986 Donzi Classic 18’. Bad news (good news?) we put the boat in the water Monday to give some rides on Labor day and my steering is completely locked up. The summer was so busy I had not run it since Jen and I took it down to the Keys in May and ran it in salt for three days. While that was a great trip, it certainly took its toll on the boat. I was able to find a quarter wash and cleaned the boat and trailer as good as I could while there. When we got home I put in the lake and ran it around to rinse it and washed it again. But now three months later I am seeing corrosion in places I had never seen before and the trailer is rusting on the edges. Anyway, I don’t know if the salt has something to do with the steering or not. Maybe the salt got into the cables or helm and seized it up? But on the bright side, I have always wanted to upgrade to full hydraulic but could not really justify the cost. So now is the time I guess. I plan to make some of my own parts for the fun of it, and try and keep the costs down a bit while still doing a really nice job. I know you guys have been down this road before and any help is appreciated.
Here is what I am planning: mercrusier 260/alpha one (gen one)
Full system
120cc charlynn helm?
dual rams – Stroke 7”-10”???
Planning to make my own drive and transom brackets, steering wheel bezel/mount, reservoir .
I would like to keep the rams on the transom maximum of 20" apart so I can keep them bolted to the plywood reinforced area as seen in the picture.
Throw it at me. What am I missing.
Thanks for all your help now and in the past.
James
77334773317733277333

gcarter
09-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Occasionally, you'll find Hynautic K-5B cylinders available, sometimes w/the double ended Hynautic helms as part of the package...get the cylinders and let the seller keep the helm as it wasn't designed for power steering. If the pressure relief valve is available, get it too.
I'd say the average price is $300-$400.00.


Next, you'll need a CharLynn helm, these are commonly found on small industrial tractors. Shops modify them to accommodate their customers. For the Hynautic K-5B cylinders, you'll need a 211-1011-02 (?) CharLynn helm to keep the steering to about 2 turns. These helms cost about $500.00.


You'll also need an outdrive bracket, for an Alpha? Sometimes available on eBay.

I did this installation on my TR restoration. The helm install is here:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?50476-Now-I-m-getting-serious/page72

And the cylinder install is here:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?50476-Now-I-m-getting-serious/page84

Maybe there's enough stuff to tell if this is the way you want to go.......

johnnywhale
09-05-2013, 12:24 PM
We put hydraulic steering on two Volvo AQ boats
The k5 cylinders are great, easy to rebuild if you get them used, but will be out further on transom and need reinforcement.
Midwest Steering has a generic replacement for the CharLynn helm at a much better price.
http://www.midweststeering.com/index.php?p=home
SBC power steering can be fabbed easily.
I'm sure the relief valve is a great thing to have, ours don't, but we haven't hit anything yet!
If I can help let me know!
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/johnnywhale/DSCN4294.jpg (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/johnnywhale/media/DSCN4294.jpg.html)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/johnnywhale/Donzi/IMG_1140.jpg (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/johnnywhale/media/Donzi/IMG_1140.jpg.html)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/johnnywhale/Donzi/IMG_1039.jpg (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/johnnywhale/media/Donzi/IMG_1039.jpg.html)
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/johnnywhale/Donzi/IMG_1041.jpg (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/johnnywhale/media/Donzi/IMG_1041.jpg.html)

johnnywhale
09-05-2013, 12:26 PM
PS -
I have a ton of brand new hydraulic fittings that I missed the returns accepted date on - let me know before you buy them and I'll make a deal!
Johnny

JayZ
09-05-2013, 05:14 PM
Nothing to add except that your hood ornaments really set that boat off nicely:biggrin.:

Conquistador_del_mar
09-05-2013, 10:45 PM
Nothing to add except that your hood ornaments really set that boat off nicely:biggrin.:

+1
Either of your friends would be excellent candidates for the boater girl of the month on Offshoreonly.

osur866
09-06-2013, 08:35 AM
I did a full system on my 18 a few years back if you search my threads you'll find it, love love love it!

X3 on the hood ornaments

Pat McPherson
09-06-2013, 10:46 AM
Nothing to add except that your hood ornaments really set that boat off nicely:biggrin.:

X4...:yes:

clayman
09-07-2013, 12:12 AM
The gals were Donzi models Jessica and Paula, that was 2002. Wonder what they look like now.
I started designing my system. for the fun of it I got a quote from Latham, cough cough, $7800 for full system, not including interior hoses, fittings, steering wheel, or adapter. Wow. I will be under $1500.

gcarter
09-07-2013, 07:14 AM
If you have the opportunity to purchase a Hynautic reservoir at a good price, grab it too. They are designed for a little air pressure. It really helps to move the fluid along.
I have a lot more info for the Hynautic system if you want it......dimensions, operating and purging procedures.
Just let me know.

johnnywhale
09-07-2013, 08:10 AM
If you have the opportunity to purchase a Hynautic reservoir at a good price, grab it too. They are designed for a little air pressure. It really helps to move the fluid along.
I have a lot more info for the Hynautic system if you want it......dimensions, operating and purging procedures.
Just let me know.


There are several reservoirs on ebay @ wildly disparate prices :rolleyes:
I've seen cylinders and reservoirs at a marine consignment store nearby, that might be a place to start.
Don't most Merc outdrives use much shorter cylinders- more "longitudinal" mounting, rather than "across the beam"?
Shorter cylinder = less throw = less volume = smaller helm?

pipnit
09-07-2013, 08:40 AM
I went with one of Zeiger's set ups for my 2+3 with dual rams. Awesome, awesome kit.

http://www.everettperformance.com/Zeiger_Performance_Marine/Catalog/Steering_Systems.asp

gcarter
09-07-2013, 10:08 AM
There are several reservoirs on ebay @ wildly disparate prices :rolleyes:
I've seen cylinders and reservoirs at a marine consignment store nearby, that might be a place to start.
Don't most Merc outdrives use much shorter cylinders- more "longitudinal" mounting, rather than "across the beam"?
Shorter cylinder = less throw = less volume = smaller helm?

Narrower pattern= poorer geometry, shorter arc, higher load on transom.
I know all the integrated systems have a narrow pattern. It does work, just not as well.

Wider base, longer stroke= better geometry, wider arc, lower loads on transom (but the transom should still be reinforced).

Oh!, and generally better (lower) pricing.

The Hynautic reservoirs are really superior. They are designed for an un-boosted system where gravity does a lot of the supply work. Having 10-20 PSI of air pressure in it makes a huge difference in operation, particularly if you've chosen to upgrade to a GM Type II pump, which has no integrated reservoir.

johnnywhale
09-07-2013, 12:07 PM
Both of the systems we did were 1500ish.
Used one older GM integral reservoir, one Mercruiser remote style reservoir pumps.
I think the k5 cylinder was about 15" stroke, I can measure it.
The hardest part was getting the mount placed / upper plate geometry to allow full travel of piston vs. turn angle.
Wasn't too bad other than biting the bullet $$$
Johnny

gcarter
09-07-2013, 12:26 PM
Here's one of my assets, a Hynautic brass cylinder data sheet;

johnnywhale
09-07-2013, 06:07 PM
9" throw on the k5, I thought it was more

clayman
09-19-2013, 08:33 PM
well I managed to pull out all of the factory the Rings. And it appears that the problem was the shield around the cable at the tiller end. Seized up.

clayman
09-19-2013, 08:34 PM
Posting from phone, "factory steering"

mphatc
09-20-2013, 07:16 PM
No doubt a full PS set up with dual rams is expensive!! I sourced all my parts for the Magnum 27 project on OSO in the parts FS forum. I does require daily monitoring and quick action, so keep a cash reserve in you PayPal account!!

No worries to mount your steering rams on the solid fiberglass outside of the narrow transom reinforced area. Just add a 1/2 thick aluminum plate the size of a 3 x 5 card on the inside and you'll be good to go!

To measure how much ram stroke you'll need, move your drive from center all the way to one side, establish an arbitrary mounting point for one ram on the transom, measure to the outside center of the drive cap, swing the drive to the opposite extreme and measure the difference. This will give a basic number to work from to shop for used parts.

Some folks also insist on cooling power steering fluid .. On the Corsican I built I never did, and it never ran hot!! I run Redline synthetic fluids in all my stuff, the safe operating temp is way above what you'll ever experience.

BTW, please do share what you find for the reason your steering is not functioning .. and if you happen to find the bow ornaments 10 years later a report is due with pictures!!!

Mario L.