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mattyboy
08-18-2013, 09:32 PM
got a chance to really run the hornet and get the trim dialed in, best number i could get was about 4400 and around 45 mph on a crowded lake dodging traffic . tonight the lake cleared after a rain shower just at dinner time, with an empty lake I got the boat up to 4900 and 50.8 mph took a bit to find the trim sweet spot . not bad for a small block ford pushing 3000 lbs of boat.

19 ' solas on a 1.6 280pt 5.0 HO

need more power

CHACHI
08-19-2013, 07:02 AM
Matty, we all need more power.

Not bad is right.

Ken

JimG
08-19-2013, 10:54 AM
Nothing wrong with those numbers! Good job!

Scott Pearson
08-19-2013, 07:50 PM
You need to Turbo Charge that thing!

Rob M
08-19-2013, 07:56 PM
Matty:

You've got me beat - I've never tried pushing my Hornet above 45mph or so, figured something might give. I think of this model like mid-60s Buick Rivieras - not the fastest thing going, but a great ride and really cool looking. I wouldn't sweat those numbers.

Rob

joseph m. hahnl
08-19-2013, 08:17 PM
:sombrero:That's pretty darn tooting for a http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4838668332893412&pid=1.7


:jestera:

Just Say N20
08-19-2013, 08:41 PM
Congratulations Matty!

And, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought just about every lake in New York had a 45 mph speed limit!

50 makes you a law-breaker! :)

mattyboy
08-19-2013, 08:59 PM
outlaw I am, yes my lake has a 45 mph limit it just worked out the lake emptied out after a rain storm so I had the lake to myself was cool and calm. I think the weight shifted aft with the replacement tank towards the back helps get the hull aired out some. the ride is so much different from the 16, water that would send the 16 into a skip the launch then slap thingy this thing just crushes. this motor will stay til it goes then modern power is on schedule.

72Hornet
08-19-2013, 10:13 PM
outlaw I am, yes my lake has a 45 mph limit it just worked out the lake emptied out after a rain storm so I had the lake to myself was cool and calm. I think the weight shifted aft with the replacement tank towards the back helps get the hull aired out some. the ride is so much different from the 16, water that would send the 16 into a skip the launch then slap thingy this thing just crushes. this motor will stay til it goes then modern power is on schedule.

Matty, that is pretty decent in my estimation. My 72 Hornet GPS'd out at 49 and some change. Close to 4800RPM pushing a Solas 21. Original 320HP SBC. It is crazy to put this boat next to my 69 18'. The size difference is incredible! The Solas gave me alot more bow lift and aired the boat out alot more. It made it alot more fun to drive. Still fighting cooling issues with that Chris Craft cooling system. Cools fine when I am up on plan and running 30MPH or more. The minute I slow down off plane, she starts to heat up. No time to figure it out....Too many projects!

mario
08-20-2013, 08:07 AM
Hope you post some pic bet she looked great running out like that

mattyboy
08-20-2013, 09:06 AM
yes I want to get some running shots, will need to get a photo boat to run with me.

Royce
It just occurred to me , we had someone mention the water passage seals going thru the suspension fork on the volvo as a cause for lack of water and overheat.

Could it be you have leaky upper seal and when you are on plane the force of the water coming up the drive is enough to get the pump water, then when you slow down the water is not forced thru as far and the pump needs to pull the water in more and the seal is letting in air killing the siphon?.


I guess you could check that by adding weight in the back to cover the entire drive in water and see if the volume of water and temp stay ok?

will it overheat if you left it at idle at the dock?

I still am leary of my risers and have my nose tuned into the smell of burning exhaust hose. I peek over the back on a regular basis to make sure I am dumping water.


look Ma no water, you can see the starboard side was dumping no water just steam or well maybe smoke

Scott Pearson
08-20-2013, 10:08 AM
What kind of Donzi Model is that?

mattyboy
08-20-2013, 02:48 PM
What kind of Donzi Model is that?

It is a custom made model for internationally renowned opera star Enrico Pallazzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCpGCpHfaSs)

Scott Pearson
08-20-2013, 03:56 PM
I thought so...:wink:

Morgan's Cloud
08-20-2013, 05:35 PM
Matty , is that a stock SBF ? If it is . the numbers are pretty good IMO.
Bear in mind I base that on my experience with the St T with the old stock 4bbl 351W.
Trimable Merc Alpha 1 though.
1.5 gears , 21'' prop and 50mph WOT
BUT I ran at factory recommended 42-4400 max.
Can you run yours at 4900 in its current trim ?
BTW , the trimable 280 drive is da bomb in my books .

joseph m. hahnl
08-20-2013, 06:38 PM
It is a custom made model for internationally renowned opera star Enrico Pallazzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCpGCpHfaSs)

http://www.cog-ff.com/elijah/img/Queen_of_England.jpg

72Hornet
08-20-2013, 08:19 PM
Matty, that is a big boat to push, so I think that is pretty decent.
As for my overheating issue, it is funny, as I start the boat from a cold start, it pumps a lot of water out the exhaust. If I remember correctly, left side pumps first, then I get water on the left outlet. Seems to run cool for the first initial warm up. Then I plane it out, all still cool. Then come off plane and idle through the bridges in the no wake zone, takes about 8 minutes to go through the no wake zone and boom, half way through I start to steam off the stern and my gauge will push 210 degrees and still climbing. It is almost like it develops a steam pocket. I shut her down to cool, and open the hatch to find that it indeed is warm! Would that seal still indicate that? I will have to look into it, we are running out of old Volvo mechanics in these parts. All of the boys have left this earth here in my area....

mattyboy
08-20-2013, 08:32 PM
Matty , is that a stock SBF ? If it is . the numbers are pretty good IMO.
Bear in mind I base that on my experience with the St T with the old stock 4bbl 351W.
Trimable Merc Alpha 1 though.
1.5 gears , 21'' prop and 50mph WOT
BUT I ran at factory recommended 42-4400 max.
Can you run yours at 4900 in its current trim ?
BTW , the trimable 280 drive is da bomb in my books .

MC
the motor is a 1987 ford 5.0 HO a replacement for the original 225 hp HM motor. the guys I sent the motor too (http://www.promarperformanceengines.com/) said it was rated for 225 hp but that might be a bit overstated. It was a car motor and the plan was to not change things to much and try and keep it original as possible. So I had them R&R the motor. It was a raw water salt boat so the alum parts took a beating. They marinized it and replaced the pistons and stock roller cam with something a tad more performance I had to get a timing chain cover and a new stealth intake both alum.

They wanted me to go to a more wild cam that they use in their 310 hp 302 marine motor, but i was worried about the flat angle of the exhaust dump without the corsa switchable exhaust and reversion. I didn't want to go the hi tek route right away I wanted to see how the boat ran and handled with the replacement tank. They felt the motor was in the 240 ish hp range. They said it would be good for 4800-5000 rpm

I have a feeling the shifted weight from the tank(in front of the motor under the seat), the cool weather and fuel level ( it reads just under a half but I bet it is closer to empty) are all factors in the 50 mph. You can really feel the trim break the boat loose and the rpms rise. the deck is also foamed cored so I wonder how heavy it really is , the literature says it is 3000lbs but i bet that was a fully wood cored hull.

I seem to be missing one folder from my rebuild it has all the original registrations, engine specs and break in procdures and some pics.

I am happy for now I think it will be a 46-48 mph ride on a daily basis

mattyboy
08-20-2013, 09:13 PM
funny story well I can laugh now. When we spoke about the cam I gave them the specs i had for the 235 hp HM motor they selected something similar but I used those specs which used the old 302 firing order they selected a similar cam but it had the the same 1987 5.0 351 firing order it took me some time to figure that one out . i can laugh at myself now, but the neighbor still thinks I am a foul-mouthed lunatic LOL


Royce this boat and the old 16 with the HM crossover would spike to 200-210 after a hard run when coming off plane then a few seconds at 1000 rpms or so and it would drop back to 170 yours never did this right?

72Hornet
08-20-2013, 09:58 PM
funny story well I can laugh now. When we spoke about the cam I gave them the specs i had for the 235 hp HM motor they selected something similar but I used those specs which used the old 302 firing order they selected a similar cam but it had the the same 1987 5.0 351 firing order it took me some time to figure that one out . i can laugh at myself now, but the neighbor still thinks I am a foul-mouthed lunatic LOL


Royce this boat and the old 16 with the HM crossover would spike to 200-210 after a hard run when coming off plane then a few seconds at 1000 rpms or so and it would drop back to 170 yours never did this right?

Matty, it never cools down. I have to either get it back on plane above 30MPH or shut it down and let it cool for an hour or so.... As soon as I get it on plane, it goes right down to 160. I brought my IR thermometer out with me and it is getting hot, so I believe that my gauge is reading right. At idle is will start to steam pretty good.

Zedaker
08-20-2013, 11:28 PM
Very good numbers for the size of the boat. Maybe a pro-charger is in your future. It can always be swapped over to a new engine if things go boom.
Anyone know what the top speed of fastest Hornet is?

mattyboy
08-21-2013, 07:45 AM
Royce your setup has a raw water pump and a circ pump with the CC logs right? the volume of water changes? have you tried removing the t-stat for grins and giggles.


i would say that wa-lo and the grinch would be among the fastest 19 hornets I know of running mid 70's to near 80

Morgan's Cloud
08-21-2013, 07:56 AM
ok , that makes sense Matty . I just couldn't figure out how you , as someone who knows, would run a stock SBF at that rpm , but it aint quite a stocker after all.
I always figured that my old 351W was 225hp and if it was , that would compare to your numbers too.

As for the stated weight .. a favorite subject of mine , I'm a bit skeptical about 3000lb . In all the resto help that you've given have you ever noticed how light the component pieces of these boats are ?

I remember that when I had mine stripped down to its three main pieces I could lift the stern of the hull up by myself !

mattyboy
08-21-2013, 08:26 AM
MC

an early 16 or 18 without the deck is basically a pointy

Scott Pearson
08-21-2013, 08:47 AM
"The Grinch" 74MPH
"WaLo" 82+MPH
"The Sting" Backed Off at 78MPH needs external steering....Its a hand full over 72MPH
"The Ultimate" Who knows.... But its fast as hell on a trailer!

Morgan's Cloud
08-21-2013, 01:51 PM
MC

an early 16 or 18 without the deck is basically a pointy

LOL , aint that the truth !

There's not a helluva lot to them , for sure .

I could almost guarantee that two people could have lifted my hull by itself . The only reason I needed 3-4 for the deck was because of it's awkwardness .
Only two people needed for the tub liner.
Add an engine package and drive @ about 915 lbs and I often wonder where the 2700 is supposed to come from .

BTW , my new drive package would be a knockout for your application. Not that you need to even think about dumping anything yet. I still can't believe the difference in performance . Old 351W , new GM 350 etc , technology definitely made some massive jumps in 20 years or so.

silverghost
08-21-2013, 07:57 PM
I would think that this Inboard/Outdrive Hornet with a modern higher engine horsepower package installed, & proper hull balance, along with it's Volvo power trim system should eventually be much faster than the old school straight inboard V-Drive Hornets as these older inboard V-drive systems have a lot of underwater drag & an inefficient fixed propshaft angle..

The "Sting" is an example of this~~~

"WaLo" with it's high-horsepower engine & big supercharger blower + full stern cavitation plate mght be the exception to the I/O drive here !
Still A lower horsepower I/O in the "Sting" with it's Scorpion engine package and added external hydraulic steering might actually beat "WaLo" ?

Who Knows ?

"WaLo" VS the "Sting" might make a very interestig & exciting Match-race !

Moody Blu'
08-21-2013, 09:23 PM
morgan did you ever buy the hi teks? I think you asked me about them a while ago?

mattyboy
08-22-2013, 05:49 AM
LOL , aint that the truth !

There's not a helluva lot to them , for sure .

I could almost guarantee that two people could have lifted my hull by itself . The only reason I needed 3-4 for the deck was because of it's awkwardness .
Only two people needed for the tub liner.
Add an engine package and drive @ about 915 lbs and I often wonder where the 2700 is supposed to come from .

BTW , my new drive package would be a knockout for your application. Not that you need to even think about dumping anything yet. I still can't believe the difference in performance . Old 351W , new GM 350 etc , technology definitely made some massive jumps in 20 years or so.

MC

yes I agree and in Monday morning quarterback just hit the lottery mode I would have re done the entire boat and gone with a modern non merc power drive system like the VP380 or one of the Ilmor MV8 packages. This will be the last old AQ I will try and save they are strong but they also hold you back.

We had a discussion at the dustoff with some pretty well versed( way smarter than me) people on the merits of good old off the shelf stock power over the highly modified hi-po power. I have no doubt that your results or the results David got with his St T would be the same with stock sbc power and a modern drive in my hull, 7 -10 mph

Morgan's Cloud
08-22-2013, 07:44 AM
Moody , the reason I was able to originally throw out the HI-Tek recommendation/suggestion was that I had already bought a pair . Sounds like you might not have been aware of that though .
I put them on the 502 in the Magnum in 93 but thanks to acts of nature only got about 3 hours=running time time on them up until about a month ago.

Matty , +7-10 mph on the re-power sounds about right . Still , the quality of build on the 280 is way above my dps-a . I don't really think they're that much slower than the new stuff , and besides, you have trim now.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a decent older boat with that set up. And I'll always miss my 351.

BUIZILLA
08-22-2013, 08:13 AM
"The Grinch" 74MPH
"WaLo" 82+MPH
"The Sting" Backed Off at 78MPH needs external steering....Its a hand full over 72MPH
"The Ultimate" Who knows.... But its fast as hell on a trailer!
The small block Sting is 4mph faster than the BB Grinch??!! :crossfing:

not too sure about the Wa Lo comment either..... :wink:

mattyboy
08-23-2013, 08:17 AM
MC

when I rode with Tank in his St T he had a 290 with a stock 350 probably 250-260 HP ran mid 50's not dialed in . So yes modern power does make a world of difference . I would imagine the COG of a St T and a benchseat are pretty close the 2+3 would be different. They also tinkered with the bottom too as the model progressed thru it's life.

Morgan's Cloud
08-23-2013, 01:52 PM
Matty , I consider myself amongst the lucky few to have driven a bench seat Hornet . My friend's one had the original 289 Holman Moody with a 270 non T on it.
Even at rest it had a completely different attitude than my St T. Under power it planed completely differently and ran completely 'flat' (on the middle tilt pin hole) compared to the trimable Alpha1 and the same weight drive package.
Now with the repower I've gone to the Volvo 350/dps-a , and that's basically Volvo's version of the Merc 350 Mag / duo prop.
The bow of the boat literally feels like it wants to take off once on plane. It is most definitely not a boat for a beginner.

Tank's hull had the same problems with it when he bought it that mine had eventually developed over the years and it needed a lot of straightening up and strengthening . I'm not sure if he ever did , or has yet done , that .

I feel pretty confident in saying that if I dropped my drive package in your boat , after making sure that the bottom was true and good , you'd see an 11mph gain. 'Cause that's what I'm looking at and I still haven't done any speed trials !
But do I ever have to be on my toes , it's a little animal .

joseph m. hahnl
08-23-2013, 06:14 PM
Seems the advertised MPH was 55 :checkered: A worked prop just might do it :propeller:

http://www.ynotyachts.com/donzi19hornet_main.htm

1967 DONZI BENCH SEAT HORNET



YNOT Yachts has begun the restoration of a 1967 Donzi 19 Hornet 7-Litre, also referred to as the Bench Seat Hornet. The Hornet is a refined version of the famous Donzi 19 ocean racers from the 1960s, which were hailed as "the most spectacular rough water boats ever built."
http://www.ynotyachts.com/photo_donzihornet-rendering.jpg



The Hornet 7-Litre was designed by by a team composed of Don Aronow, Dave Stirrat, Jim Wynne and Waltman W. Walters - internationally known marine consultants, designers, ocean racers and builders, and the same team that designed, raced and owned the Formula 233, Formula 275 and Formula Jr.In early testes of the stock Donzi 19 Hornet, speeds topped 70 m.p.h., which is one of the reasons that Donzi Marine Corp. could guarantee 55 m.p.h. speeds at delivery with the standard power and 60 m.p.h.+ with the available power options. Donzi Marine built less than 40 Bench Seat Hornets from 1964 through 1971; with power options from Crusader, Holman & Moody and Daytona Marine (fully warranted turbo charged engine) and offered both V-drive and stern drive configurations.Please check back, photos and information will be updated as the restoration progresses.

mattyboy
08-24-2013, 12:32 AM
the info relayed there is from the 66-67 ads and brochures which only considered the stock 7 litre a big block v drive boat . The low end HP package was the 290 mopar or the 300 HM BBF, then onto the 400 and 500 hp HM powerplants or like Scott's a 325 daytona or a mopar 335 .

the first I/O boat was hull 33 a 225 HM sbf volvo boat in 1968, I bet the 289 hi-po 271 hp HM I/O original "THE STING" ran pretty well .

mattyboy
08-24-2013, 09:47 AM
I guess they dropped the 7 litre nickname when there were more power options then the 7 litre , either that or they gave up on the int'l flare that early donzis had.