Epic Trailer Tire Failure!

[Carl C]

I got 8 years out of my original Goodyear Marathon trailer tires so I can't complain but I have never seen tire failure like this. Late last season I had a blowout and decided to just replace the one tire since the others had some tread left and seemed to be OK for a couple more years. Two weeks ago I had another total tire failure. Yesterday yet another! These tires are structurally worn out even though there is tread left. Last years tire has been disposed of. Here are pics of the two that recently failed. Three more tires should be here tomorrow from the tirerack.com. Has anyone seen this before?

[Tidbart]

Carl,

Hope you had no collateral damage upon failures.

There is a good example of how tire life can have nothing to do with tread depth. Rubber has a finite life, whether on the inside, sidewall, or on the tread. Once the rubber starts to breakdown, there is no saving them.

8 years is long time for a tire that sits around getting older by the day. Maybe a 6 year replacement cycle would be in order.

B

[biggiefl]

Bob is correct, especially in FL. Long gone are the days of pumping up a 20 year old tire and pulling the car out of a barn. I find after a few years down here and the heat I get broken belts on car tires. You probably did as well but could not feel it on a trailer until the belt totally shredded. Tires today are not as long lasting and hence why they put dates on them. I agree with the 6 year rule. Mine are 8 on my trailers but not radials.

[BUIZILLA]

not unusual if you let a steel belted tire stay in one place for several months

it's more common than uncommon

put your trailer axles on jackstands during the winter and the tire life will double

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Carl,
Were the tires balanced?

[Carl C]

Carl,
Were the tires balanced?

I think so. They came on it new and ran smooth. There was no other damage and I like the idea of jack stands in winter. Still, I've seen plenty of tires completely worn out that didn't fail like these.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I had asked if they were balanced since no weights were showing in the picture of one of the rims. If the tires blew out at highway speeds of 65+MPH, then being out of balance might have had to do with premature failure - otherwise it seems to be a problem with that set of Marathons. Just my thoughts.

[woobs]

I have spent fifteen years working for the largest tire manufacturer in the world in their commercial division. Our job was to maximize tire life in 18 wheelers. This included many courses on tire inspection and evaluation of worn, failed and scrapped tires. Tire analysys is something I performed daily.

It is hard to be certain from just pictures, as a "hands on" inspection is best. However you can still tell a few things (and guess at a couple more)....

There are no "moving" parts on a tire so, if something is wrong with the construction it was that way from the factory. Since these tires have done their job for a while, I'm pretty sure there is no manufacturers defect.

Belt seperation of this kind (catastrophic) is what happens when the tire is running at speed and the air pressure drops. The heat build up inside the tire casing from it flexing too much is enough to shred the tire from within, and "blow out". You can see on the bottom tire, the belts (or what's left of them) are deformed all around the damaged area. A brand new tire run with a puncture will look exactly like this in a few short miles.

I can also see in the picture, rust on the belts and concentrated in an area (on the right near the beginning of the tear. This type of rust takes a while to form. It can come from a cut in the tread, an old repair, a puncture etc... Undoubtably, this area is the real cause of the failure. Water can wick it's way up the steel belts starting at the injury and weaken the belt package significantly. Eventually the tire will fail but you can usually tell when the belts are failing as the tire is no longer smooth (round) when you run your havd over it. When it worsens the tire will shake as if unbalanced. I can't see if this was a cut or a puncture from the pictures.

The upper tire in the picture has several visible cuts and what is termed "wild wire". Now, if you can see the cuts on a picture....they are pretty severe. It takes a lot less than this to destroy a tire. Again the casing is coming apart but, without an "in person" inspection I can't really tell more than this. This tire would look just like the other, if left for a little while longer.

Obviously, cuts and potentilly punctures (even if they didn't cause air leaks) are the issue here. There might be some bruising of the casing ( from hitting curbs/rocks/other objects while manuvering etc...) that I can't see from pictures and these may weaken the casing also. Since it's both tires doing the same thing you can deduce the conditions that caused the tire failure happened while mounted on the trailer. It is not a "bad set" of tires.

A newer tire may be somewhat resiliant to cuts/punctures but, as they get older they are much less resiliant. The best practice for tire life is to be mindful of what you are driving over. (as well as tire selection, inflation, inspection, maintainance, alignment and rotation). Check at the bottom of the boat ramp for rocks. It is possible that the these cuts were obtained years ago! take a look and see where you drive your and park trailer. If the cut was on the bottom of the tire when parked for the season the moisture creep in the casing would have been accelerated.

The structure and materials of these tires are not the root of these failures. Trailer tires seem to have a shorter life as they are "severe" duty. Usually inflation issues, bruising from curbs/ other objects, and in this case possibly rocks at the boat ramp all lead to a tough life. Ten years is not uncommon for many tires to remain serviceable however, not in these types conditions.

The Goodyear Marathon is one of the few "trailer" designated tires left made by a major manufacturer and in my experience has been a decent tire. I would stay away from the bargain "offshore" brands as in the service that your trailer sees... they will not fare as well as these did.

Hope this helped, Good luck.

[Carl C]

The weights are stuck on the inside of the wheel.

Yes, these tires have been breaking down from within for awhile. I keep them at 50 psi but they still seem to flex a lot going down the road. The shredded one let go at 70 mph on the freeway. Another driver gave me a heads up on the other one being flat or it would have done the same thing. The one from last year was similar to the one on top and went flat locally. I'm not blaming Goodyear but I do wonder if a heavier duty tire should be used. Anyway, I went with the same tire since I already have one new one and they are only $95 each at tire rack.

[BUIZILLA]

which trailer tires are NOT made overseas?

I was told that the Marathons were made overseas, and the ID stamped in the sidewall would show the country of origin?

[Carl C]

Originals were made in New Zealand. New ones are made in (no surprise here) China. :(

[woobs]

The DOT will have a code as to which factory the tire was made in. Most tires also have the "made in" moulded right in to the sidewall with all the other information nobody bothers to read.

It is common for manufacturers to make the same model/size tires at several plants around the world. Tires are heavy, and shipping is expensive. But, when shortages occur (which is frequent), tires can be moved quickly from one location to cover another.

Also, interestingly enough...Some tires are even contracted out to other manufacturers plants (competitors) to be made when the economies of scale are favorable. Everything is based on the $.

[woobs]

I do wonder if a heavier duty tire should be used.

Look on a Goodyear website at the load rating. I haven't checked the load myself but, I suspect the Marathon in the size you have is a capible tire. You could research and see if anyone makes a more "cut resistant" tread compound. An HD tire may yeild a greater load capacity but not have more protection against cuts/chips/punctures.

Again, I'd say have a look at the bottom of the boat ramps you use. If there is a sharp edge at the end of the concrete, or rocks protruding from the base of the ramp (or even lying on the bottom) you have to be mindful of them. The older the tire gets (and the more heat cycles it sees) the less forgiving the tires become to cutting/chipping and punctures. And obviously, the less tread, the less protection for the casing.

[BUIZILLA]

last year I bought 5 new trailer tires for a new trailer

they were all made in Viet Nam by a large name vendor according to the sidewall plant code, when I questioned this to the warehouse they said they had several returns from VN and sent me 5 more from the same Co. made in South Korea...

they looked identical

so far these have been great, they are not Marathon's

just an FYI

[bertsboat]

I believe that a passenger tire would be better than a trailer tire. The trailer tire says right on it "NOT FOR PASSENGER USE" and a passemger tire DOES NOT SAY "NOT FOR PASSENGER USE"
A good set of Michelin (to me) is way better than a trailer tier in every way.

[Greg Guimond]

I have spent fifteen years working for the largest tire manufacturer in the world. This included many courses on tire inspection and evaluation of worn, failed and scrapped tires. Tire analysys is something I performed daily.

woobs weighing in with an excellent contribution based on real experience. Very helpful :beer:

[Carl C]

woobs weighing in with an excellent contribution based on real experience. Very helpful :beer:

Very helpful indeed. If I can take advantage of this, Woobs, when I am towing, even light on fuel, I can see the tires in the mirror flexing up and down quite a bit whenever the pavement isn't perfectly flat. Could this lead to the internal ply separation?

[woobs]

when I am towing, even light on fuel, I can see the tires in the mirror flexing up and down quite a bit whenever the pavement isn't perfectly flat. Could this lead to the internal ply separation?

I need more information to answer this....are we talking trailer or tow vehicle? What's the tire? Size, type, load rating, air pressure? etc...

All tires are made to have some degree of flex. If you have the correct type of tire and sufficient load rating for your application, and have them properly inflated the belt package should not seperate. A "bouncing" could be caused by a mis-mounted tire, poor balancing, underinflated tire, overinflated tire, the wrong tire for the job, vehicle dynamics...many things.

The short answer is.....The most important factor is inflation. The volume of air is what carries the load. the tire is only the container. If underinflated (or insufficient load capibility) your tire will destroy itself due to the excess flexing and heat build up. If overinflated for the load, it will develop irregular wear and a horrible ride but, the belt package should stay intact. It is important to have a tire that is designed to carry the load of your application.

[joseph m. hahnl]

I believe that a passenger tire would be better than a trailer tire. The trailer tire says right on it "NOT FOR PASSENGER USE" and a passemger tire DOES NOT SAY "NOT FOR PASSENGER USE"
A good set of Michelin (to me) is way better than a trailer tier in every way. A trailer tire has a different load rating then a passenger tire. Also Tires are speed rated. The closer you get to the max speed rating the easier it is to blow out. Also changing tire direction "rotating tires from one side to the other" can slip a steel belt. I suspect you had more then one factor there. Probably all leading to a recipe for disaster. I wonder what the "Quenching" does to a super heated tire over 8 years:nuke:

[Carl C]

I need more information to answer this....are we talking trailer or tow vehicle? What's the tire? Size, type, load rating, air pressure? etc...

All tires are made to have some degree of flex. If you have the correct type of tire and sufficient load rating for your application, and have them properly inflated the belt package should not seperate. A "bouncing" could be caused by a mis-mounted tire, poor balancing, underinflated tire, overinflated tire, the wrong tire for the job, vehicle dynamics...many things.

The short answer is.....The most important factor is inflation. The volume of air is what carries the load. the tire is only the container. If underinflated (or insufficient load capibility) your tire will destroy itself due to the excess flexing and heat build up. If overinflated for the load, it will develop irregular wear and a horrible ride but, the belt package should stay intact. It is important to have a tire that is designed to carry the load of your application.

They are the tires that came from the factory. G.Y. Marathon ST205/75R-14. Load range C. Max inflation 50 psi. I had been running them at 45 psi. The new tires are now on and I will run them at 50 psi. The flex that I'm talking about is on the trailer tires. The flex is just on irregular pavement and bumps. Going down smooth pavement there is no flex or shaking. I'm thinking that I will get 5 years out of these tires and then go with a D load tire. Do you agree with running them at the max psi of 50? Thanks. We used to have a guy from Michelin on here. I wonder what happened to "chromegorilla"?

[Offset]

Carl, I had the same tires on my Aluminium Loadmaster Trailer carrying my 22 classic. I ran them right at 50 psi and was pleased with the way it towed and handled. I saw just the typical radial sidewall flex in the mirrors. Whether right or wrong I pumped them up to 60 psi for the months it was stored and they were sitting on plywood over concrete.

The Goodyears that were on the trailer looked band new when I got it, however they literally tore themselves apart on the 50 mile trip home.

I think you will be please with your purchase. I do believe that inflation is really critical on these tires. In fact I wish I had checked the pressure in the tires before making that first trip. I suspect they were very low.

Have a great summer of boating. :thumbsup:

[Carl C]

Carl, I had the same tires on my Aluminium Loadmaster Trailer carrying my 22 classic. I ran them right at 50 psi and was pleased with the way it towed and handled. I saw just the typical radial sidewall flex in the mirrors. Whether right or wrong I pumped them up to 60 psi for the months it was stored and they were sitting on plywood over concrete.

The Goodyears that were on the trailer looked band new when I got it, however they literally tore themselves apart on the 50 mile trip home.

I think you will be please with your purchase. I do believe that inflation is really critical on these tires. In fact I wish I had checked the pressure in the tires before making that first trip. I suspect they were very low.

Have a great summer of boating. :thumbsup:

Thanks. I'm going to get the weight completely off the tires this winter. Looks like I'm good to go for 5 years! :)

[woobs]

They are the tires that came from the factory. G.Y. Marathon ST205/75R-14. Load range C. Max inflation 50 psi. I had been running them at 45 psi. The new tires are now on and I will run them at 50 psi. The flex that I'm talking about is on the trailer tires. The flex is just on irregular pavement and bumps. Going down smooth pavement there is no flex or shaking. I'm thinking that I will get 5 years out of these tires and then go with a D load tire. Do you agree with running them at the max psi of 50? Thanks. We used to have a guy from Michelin on here. I wonder what happened to "chromegorilla"?

How much does your boat and trailer weigh?
The Goodyear load and inflation table for the Marathon ST205/75R14 at maximum shows 1760lbs @ 50 psi pressure. Are you a dual axel? that equates to 7040 lbs of capacity at maximum. 3520 lbs if a single axel.

At 40 psi the tire holds 1530 lbs capacity...dual axel = 6120 lbs...single = 3060 lbs
at 30 psi the tire holds 1300 lbs capacity...dual axel = 5200 lbs...single = 2600 lbs
at 20 psi the tire holds 1030 lbs capacity...dual axel = 4120 lbs... single= 2060 lbs

You can adjust you pressures accordingly. Just use an accurate gauge and if in doubt error on the positive side as a little bit too much pressure is a better scenario than a little bit too little pressure. ****Also, these are all COLD inflation pressures.****

If your loaded trailer weight falls within these numbers, you do not need a D load tire.
These ST tires have a load rating...not a speed rating like a PSR tire. If you stay within the published limits they are no more (or less) prone to "blow out" at a higher or lower pressure setting. Again, "blow outs" happen when a tire loses pressure or is run underinflated/overloaded. If you have a "blow out" the problem happened a few miles back....

These are not "directional" tires and there is no harm in rotating them (there is a benefit).
Tires have no moving parts and therefore belts, steel or otherwise do not "shift" or "slip" as that is a mis-nomer. When this occurs it is actually a seperation (and the tire is junk). It is not caused by rotating. If a directional tire has a puncture and begins to seperate while running in the opposite direction than marked, the belt package is not as strong and a more severe result may occur. (meaning if you pick up a nail it could do more damage than usual) but that's really it.

Weight off the tires when parked is a good thing. The steel belts can take a "set" if not moved around and you get a "thumper" for the rest of the tires life. Overinflating can reduce the possibility of this but you must remember to set your pressures again before use. Also remember tires can loose more than a pound of pressure per month, and a pound of pressure for every 10*C drop in ambient temperature. So check regularly

[Carl C]

I have no idea what my boat weighs :) . How much does a late model 22C BBC weigh? Then add a few hundred pounds for the steering and heavier engine package. It sure seems like 4 of these tires should be sufficient. I still prefer rotating tires front to rear and not changing the direction of rotation. Anyway, I am good to go now and the new tires have a raised "sidewall guard".

[joseph m. hahnl]

How much does your boat and trailer weigh?
The Goodyear load and inflation table for the Marathon ST205/75R14 at maximum shows 1760lbs @ 50 psi pressure. Are you a dual axel? that equates to 7040 lbs of capacity at maximum. 3520 lbs if a single axel.

At 40 psi the tire holds 1530 lbs capacity...dual axel = 6120 lbs...single = 3060 lbs
at 30 psi the tire holds 1300 lbs capacity...dual axel = 5200 lbs...single = 2600 lbs
at 20 psi the tire holds 1030 lbs capacity...dual axel = 4120 lbs... single= 2060 lbs

You can adjust you pressures accordingly. Just use an accurate gauge and if in doubt error on the positive side as a little bit too much pressure is a better scenario than a little bit too little pressure. ****Also, these are all COLD inflation pressures.****

If your loaded trailer weight falls within these numbers, you do not need a D load tire.
These ST tires have a load rating...not a speed rating like a PSR tire. If you stay within the published limits they are no more (or less) prone to "blow out" at a higher or lower pressure setting. Again, "blow outs" happen when a tire loses pressure or is run underinflated/overloaded. If you have a "blow out" the problem happened a few miles back....

These are not "directional" tires and there is no harm in rotating them (there is a benefit).
Tires have no moving parts and therefore belts, steel or otherwise do not "shift" or "slip" as that is a mis-nomer. When this occurs it is actually a seperation (and the tire is junk). It is not caused by rotating. If a directional tire has a puncture and begins to seperate while running in the opposite direction than marked, the belt package is not as strong and a more severe result may occur. (meaning if you pick up a nail it could do more damage than usual) but that's really it.

Weight off the tires when parked is a good thing. The steel belts can take a "set" if not moved around and you get a "thumper" for the rest of the tires life. Overinflating can reduce the possibility of this but you must remember to set your pressures again before use. Also remember tires can loose more than a pound of pressure per month, and a pound of pressure for every 10*C drop in ambient temperature. So check regularly:boggled: I thought tires are THE moving part.

What could possibly happen?:D http://0.static.wix.com/media/6264ffa5f9a89598393481864d6e4836.wix_mp_1024

[Carl C]

Wrinkle wall slicks with tubes don't count! I have those on my '82 Mustang. :)

[woobs]

But, it's a perfect example of the "right tire for the application"...:shades::cool!::shades::cool!::cool:

[Ed Donnelly]

Carl; Chromey was a pipe layer and dropped out soon after he became a daddy..Ed

[Carl C]

Carl; Chromey was a pipe layer and dropped out soon after he became a daddy..Ed

You sure he wasn't a Michelin rep? Anyway, he was a good guy and I miss him.

[gcarter]

Scott (Chromy) wa a Navy Sub missile tech who resigned and went to work for Michelin, not as a rep (at least I don't think so) but as a tech.
Apparently it wasn't a good match and after less than a year, started working off-shore, bought a house w/boat storage, he and his wife had a boy and he's been pretty busy.
I believe he still has his 22C.

[Carl C]

Thanks, George, I wondered if he had his boat. It was very similar to mine when I bought it.

[deejay]

Woobs, would you mind speaking to nitrogen use for inflation? Thanks for all the time you have given, deejay

[Offset]

Thanks. I'm going to get the weight completely off the tires this winter. Looks like I'm good to go for 5 years! :)

Carl, just a note of caution. The first year I had my boat I went to a lot of difficulty to jack the trailer up (it was against a wall on one side) only to find that the boat itself did not sit on the bunks properly. I assume the trailer had a fair bit of flex in it and honestly I was concerned that the hull was not support properly.

Have a good look at how it sits before you jack up the trailer and block it off. You may have to make some adjustments but I could not get mine to sit properly no matter what I did. I went with the theory that tires are cheaper than the boat so I left it on plywood and as Woobs suggested kept my eye on the pressure. I started at 60 and even though the garage was unheated I lost very little air pressure over the period of 7 months. I was surprised as aluminum wheels do not always seal so well at the bead.

Good luck.

[Carl C]

Carl, just a note of caution. The first year I had my boat I went to a lot of difficulty to jack the trailer up (it was against a wall on one side) only to find that the boat itself did not sit on the bunks properly. I assume the trailer had a fair bit of flex in it and honestly I was concerned that the hull was not support properly.

Have a good look at how it sits before you jack up the trailer and block it off. You may have to make some adjustments but I could not get mine to sit properly no matter what I did. I went with the theory that tires are cheaper than the boat so I left it on plywood and as Woobs suggested kept my eye on the pressure. I started at 60 and even though the garage was unheated I lost very little air pressure over the period of 7 months. I was surprised as aluminum wheels do not always seal so well at the bead.

Good luck.

Thanks for that head's up! I will think of something. Maybe more psi and spin the tires once or twice during the off season (6 months for me).

[woobs]

Woobs, would you mind speaking to nitrogen use for inflation? Thanks for all the time you have given, deejay

Believe it or not, use of nitrogen (i.e. benefits from) is a controversial topic around tire tech circles....

Me, I'm a huge believer! (in certain scenarios)... I had several large trucking fleets move to a nitrogen fill program and it certainly showed a marked increase in tire life. Others will tell you that the same results could be achieved with air fill and a closer monitoring program. Maybe, but the nitrogen worked with the current fill program and level of attention. Job done.

As for a more domesticated example: I use nitrogen in my personal car tires. I check them every month and almost never need to add. In the late fall I change the wheel/tire assembly for my winter driving tires and write the pressures on the inside tire wall. Come spring (at re-installation time) my tire pressures are usually exactly where I left them.

But, here are some issues.

1) How do you get a 100% nitrogen fill? If as little as 10% ambient air is present it may displace the benefit of the nitrogen. The best you can do at mounting time is to inflate with nitrogen, then deflate the tire as much as possible and re-inflate with nitrogen again. Over time you may get pressure loss from the remaining ambiebnt air escaping. If you re-fill with nitrogen your results should get better.

2) You have to ensure any re-fill is with nitrogen. I had a shop install my winter tires/wheels this year (it was just too cold in my driveway). when they checked pressure, it was not set at Maximum so they ignored the green valve caps and topped up with air! Back to square one.

3) Reccomended cold inflation pressures take into account that a tire in use, warms up and the pressure increases. Nitrogen is an inert gas and will not increase in pressure with heat. So, you must set the nitrogen pressure to normal "hot" or operating pressures to do the same job. This can affect wear patterns ride handling etc... So you have to experiment to see what works for your application. This is easy to do with a race car...but, what is "normal" for a trailer?

4) if balancing your pressures for a load, do you have access to nitrogen for filling? Everyday my pickup drives around empty. when I tow my boat I have to adjust for the load of the trailer. It's a PITA sometimes. I no longer use nitrogen in my truck tires (see #2).

At the end of the day you have to ask yourself what benefits you are trying to achieve by using nitrogen. In many cases it is not warranted as it can be impractical.

Hope this helps. :)

[BUIZILLA]

Carl, just a note of caution. The first year I had my boat I went to a lot of difficulty to jack the trailer up (it was against a wall on one side) only to find that the boat itself did not sit on the bunks properly. I assume the trailer had a fair bit of flex in it and honestly I was concerned that the hull was not support properly.

Have a good look at how it sits before you jack up the trailer and block it off. You may have to make some adjustments but I could not get mine to sit properly no matter what I did. I went with the theory that tires are cheaper than the boat so I left it on plywood and as Woobs suggested kept my eye on the pressure. I started at 60 and even though the garage was unheated I lost very little air pressure over the period of 7 months. I was surprised as aluminum wheels do not always seal so well at the bead.

Good luck. maybe i'm missing something, but why not just put short jackstands under the axles once the tires are off the ground?

[Carl C]

maybe i'm missing something, but why not just put short jackstands under the axles once the tires are off the ground?

That's what I was originally thinking. Four small jackstands.

[gcarter]

I suppose you could say we all fill our tires w/nitrogen.......only at about 78%! ;)

But i would also guess we could benefit from filling w/dry air if nitrogen isn't available. At least you'd be rid of the hated water vapor. I suppose it is a lot more sensitive than air is.

[Offset]

maybe i'm missing something, but why not just put short jackstands under the axles once the tires are off the ground?

Buzz and Carl, you are probably right that axle stands would have worked. I was leery especially with a boat as heavy as the Donzi of putting the stands between the wheel mounting plates (I bent an axle on my last trailer doing just that) and there was no room to put the stands safely under the small portion of the axle on the outside of the wheel mounting plates. I just did not feel comfortable leaving it like that. I put 8" x 8" blocks right behind the rear axle and directly in front of the braking axle. The wooden blocking connected both main beams of the trailer, it still flexed it even with them supporting the weight so close to the front and rear axle.

As I said just a caution of what I found and I am sure you will find a better way to do it than I did.