Donzi Rift

[CDMA]

Some of you may know me, some of you don’t. For those that don’t I have been involved in classic Donzi’s since I was a kid; literally, and consider the Donzi family as close to my real friends and family as I have. My involvement has ebbed and flowed as I have grown up with life changes, professional changes, and even personal and hobby changes.

I plan to post this a few places, how long it lasts where I post it, is to be determined. Some may know, some may not, that over the last 3-4 years there has been a terrible rift in the Donzi community. From the divorce of the .net/.org websites; to the feuds about reproduction parts, conflicting events, side choosing, bickering; it has degenerated into what can only be considered a high school (at best) drama fest fueled seemingly by selfishness, ego’s, and general childlike behavior.

I have tried for a long time not to care. I have tried to just let it be what it is. But I can’t. The Donzi family, group, and life, is a part of me. I can directly trace my choice in college, my career, the company I own, my best friends and even my wife to be, to this darn community. I grew up grinding fiberglass, painting, wrenching on these stupid objects and now they mean little compared to the personal relationships, experiences, and life long friends I have made.

Today we feud, hoard, and play petty games with people we all used to help, for the common goal. In a time when our hobby is venerable, a time where the future of the glue that started it all, and holds it together, Donzi itself, is seemingly in limbo instead of joining together we more and more split the community, divide the people, ostracize the friends, and ruin what, in my opinion, is the best community of people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. In the history of owner’s groups what small owners group has been better divided than a whole? As a wise man said this weekend “this feels eerily like the split of APBA into APBA, OSS and SBI. Split up a really good thing and destroy it all.”

None of us are perfect. Myself included. I have friends on all sides of this. And while I try not to care, I find it against the fabric who I am.

What is the point of this post? I really can’t say. Do I think I can fix it? No. I am sure some of these “issues” are real to some. But it’s pissing me off royally and damn if I stand idly by.

Chris “CDMA”
Christopher.d.allard@gmail.com

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Hi Chris,
Quite honestly, I never did understand what caused the big problems here a couple years ago, but I continue to visit and sometimes contribute to the Donzi forum here due to my interest. Sometimes I think there might be too much testosterone at work - kind of like so many of the reality shows on television - lol. Take care, Bill

[CDMA]

Bill,

I can't say I am sure either. I think few really know, and less even care, what the story was. The issue has become it isn't just the web forums anymore. It has permeated the events now as well. Who is invited, or allowed, at events. Conflicting events. General division. It is just beyond screwy. I know all won't understand the entirety of my post.

Chris

[Carl C]

Bill,

I can't say I am sure either. I think few really know, and less even care, what the story was. The issue has become it isn't just the web forums anymore. It has permeated the events now as well. Who is invited, or allowed, at events. Conflicting events. General division. It is just beyond screwy. I know all won't understand the entirety of my post.

Chris

I understand......

[Greg Guimond]

I never understood what happened, or continues to happen either. I just go about my business posting the things that are interesting to me and treating others the way I'd want to be treated given the difficulty that communicating via the net already presents. I'm also one of the few with a weedeater 16 so I'm down in the pecking order lol. If others like what I'm posting, that is great to. I tend to go overboard with my forensics anyway when I latch onto something so most of my posts are too long winded to start! With three kids and my wife and I both working, I don't get to the events, but I'd certainly like to attend one at some point and hope that the bickering you mention has not reached that level as to divide attendees and the like. :crossfing:

I'm still pissed I did not get to see GEOO running at any point in LI sound back in the day :kaioken:

[gcarter]

Hi Chris!
Sorry I missed you when we passed through Louisiana, I think you were getting over jet lag, or something.
We both probably know all the players, the egos, stubbornness, and personal allegiances of many of them, although you probably know them better than I do.
Unless some of them are willing to change their minds, I don't see much happening.
But, I'm eternally optimistic.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Just imagine:rolleyes: It would be like when Pink Floyd got back together for Live Eight:rlol:http://ecstatic-explosion-of-excellent-music.clubs.nl/afbeeldingen/album/286125/pink+floyd+live+8.jpg

[Jraysray]

I was driving down Nasa Rd 1 here in Seabrook and a teal 22 was gassing up. It was no one other than Jay Z. I whipped it around to chat for a few then Blake Sullivan came up on us. Now there were three trucks taking up all the space around this 22 when another suburban pulled in. It turns out to be an old work comrade that knew Jay Z. I was able to visit with him and look at his re-done fish boat. Long story short is that it took one boat to pull all these people together on a lawn mowing, auto part retrieving early Sat AM. It is a family environment and I value all the relationships that come from that.

[jl1962]

Well said, Chris.

We are a small community and whatever divides us only counts a fraction against all that unites us.

I would like to urge all the aggrieved parties to move forward - for the good of all. It's never too late.

Don't carry grudges - they get really heavy over the years.

And don't stay mad at friends - at the end of the day, the friendships we have forged outweigh everything else.

-Jay

[Ed Donnelly]

Chris; Nice to hear from you, to bad its not in a lighter
vein.. You were the very first person I ever did a
business deal with over the internet
(I bought your Procharger) I have watched you climb the corporate ladder then you seemed to have faded away. Let us know what you are doing along with some pics of any boats you have and a few of the soon to be boss..Take care...Ed in Toronto

[JayZ]

I was driving down Nasa Rd 1 here in Seabrook and a teal 22 was gassing up. It was no one other than Jay Z. I whipped it around to chat for a few then Blake Sullivan came up on us. Now there were three trucks taking up all the space around this 22 when another suburban pulled in. It turns out to be an old work comrade that knew Jay Z. I was able to visit with him and look at his re-done fish boat. Long story short is that it took one boat to pull all these people together on a lawn mowing, auto part retrieving early Sat AM. It is a family environment and I value all the relationships that come from that.


Scott, I was pretty amused by that too. Great seeing y'all! I think it was about 2 years ago that I saw your yellow 18 in West Marine and my son and I introduced ourselves and said something like I always liked these old Donzis...

...anyway hope to see you and your 18 around sometime soon.

[Sidney073]

I was involved in something a few years ago that was much like what is described here, there was a single group that became divided into first 2 then 3 groups that were doing much the same thing. It finally became apparent to myself and the leader of one of the groups that if we didn't work together then we all would suffer. We began working together on Rule Books, Scheduling, even as far as helping each other with events. It really worked out great, when the two of us left the groups by new blood taking over leadewrship, and for work committments, they lost sight of our vision. Now one of the groups is no longer in business, although again newer leadership is in place with the 2 remaining groups and they are again working together.
One reason I haven't been more active on this site, or attended any events, is some of the posting. I just don't feel like dealing with the bickering, or accusations, etc..... If the demeaner changed, and there was some attempt at being civil then I would really enjoy attending events, I have attended several with another group that has nothing to do with Donzi's, I would love to be around a group of Donzi owners who want to strengthen the mystique of the brand.
I'll keep checking in more often......
L8R,
Sid

[smokediver]

Nice to see you on the board Chris , it has been a while. I hope all is well in your world and your knowledge is missed around here. I agree with you 100 percent

[yeller]

I agree with the essence of your post Chris. It is too bad there has to be a divide in the community.

It is only among a few people though and most here (and those at .org) still like to help others. The very few that cause problems....although I agree it's tough....I try to ignore.

[fegettes]

I agree with 100% of everything you have said Chris. I recognize that something has happened. It seems that the ones that know, know, and the rest of us, or, me actually, in the dark. But this I do know, everyone I have met at the events have all been great people.


Steve

[Donzi_Dude]

a rift huh?

you mean its not some troll in mommie's basement posting fake donzi's and causing havoc's fault?

lmao!

[Carl C]

Yes, problem seems to be amongst a few individuals, not the two sites.

[pipnit]

Just PLEASE make sure to never forget:

76418

[JimG205]

Chris-Aside from you,George Carter,the late Grizz,I too wonder where many names that used to post have gone-Cuda,Madpoodle,?? Sometimes I too have just closed the post after it gets way out of hand.
As somewhat of an insider is it possible the Donzi brand will ever be resurrected to produce boats that the market desires??,or is it still the corporate fill your pockets quick and get out of town.Be well good luck in your ventures.

[John C in PA]

Just PLEASE make sure to never forget:

76418

Something is not right with this picture. Oh, I know. Thats not Al Gore!!!!!!!!!!! :tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue:

[Tony]

Chris, in addition to your specialized education background and interesting early career path...I remember you owning and refurbishing the sweetest-looking yellow/black 18' classic I've ever seen.

Probably my favorite color combination...have you still got that boat?

[boldts]

OK it's 2001. Myself & 2 Donzi owners from Cincinnati, OH who I met here on the Registry, start the Midwest Donzi Club & begin the club's annual gathering at Lake Cumberland in KY. At that time their were a couple other Donzi gatherings, but nothing like the gatherings now happening in almost every state of the U.S.A. Because of the difference in cost to stay at the resort we wanted to run the gathering out of before Memorial Day weekend, it had to happen before the holiday weekend. Thus, became my 1st issue. One of the longest running Donzi gatherings happens in May also. The Dust-Off was my example to follow. No way did I want to schedule the Awakening of the Horses gathering the same weekend as the Dust-Off. So, I spoke to the then president Fasteddie who I found through the Registry. (2 parties working together for the betterment of the Donzi brand) Ed taught me many things about holding a gathering and many of our early attempts had his influence behind them. Donzi owners and even other performance boat owners like the 20' Cigarette owners who attend every year pay to attend the gathering. It's not like they show up, they get a room and a free brand new Donzi to run around in all weekend. (If someone is doing that, please tell me. That gathering is a must attend for me. :-) ) Owners attend gatherings because of the people who come & their love for a boat named Donzi. Everyone there is sharing the Mystic of the boats we love.

Back to my example.....We post the gathering here on the Registry. At the time there was a kinda war of words here between the late Grizzly and a young Navy man living in VA. Bryan Tuvell. Sorry Bryan I know I butchered your name spelling I think. lol Anyway, these 2 guys posted on here like they were going to cut each other's throats! Guess what.....they are both coming to the 1st AOTH gathering in KY. I'm thinking OMG........How on earth am I going to get through this gathering with these 2 guys attending? All of these thoughts were merely coming from posts I read right here on the Donzi Registry. (BTW, I had owned my Classic for 6 years before stumbling onto this website 1 late evening) AOTH #1 starts. I was introducing myself to all as they launched their pride and joy. I was amazed to say the least of where folks had come from and even more, all the Donzi boats that were now in one place together. I met both Randy & Bryan. Randy was the owner of a Criterion. I had never seen one of these except for pictures here on the website. Bryan at the time had a slotted 22ZX which Frank Civatano (Toms River, NJ) helped him learn to drive after spinning the boat out in a turn. He has since moved up to a 26ZX and now owns a 33ZX done up in stars and stripes graphics. The perfect Donzi for a man whose career has been our US Navy. Randy the family lost. We all who met you Grizzly miss you tremendously!

Back to my example....As you can tell, my experiences are never short reading. I got so involved in greeting attendees, I completely forgot about what I thought was sure to be fists being thrown at the gathering. I walked down the ramp to the marina's docks and there stood Randy & Bryan having a conversation on the dock. They were laughing and yes even smiling with each other. I was like.....wow. I walked up to both of them individually later as a rain down pour was happening oour 1st evening of the gathering. In so many words, I said to each, everything ok with you 2? From what I read on the Donzi Registry, I was afraid you'd both be throwing punches when you met. They both smiled and said the other was a great person once they had the opportunity to meet each other. Randy called Bryan a young man who is a bit wet behind the ears is all. LOL

So, finally getting to my point. First, 2 club presidents came together to help the Donzi family grow bigger. Those of you who own event gathering t-shirts. How many times has someone at the launch ramp come up to you and asked about a Donzi because they saw your boat and that wonderful t-shirt you were wearing? OK.....it was definitely more your boat than the shirt......but I hope you all get my point. It's sharing our love for Donzi boats that not only bring people together, but help the Donzi family grow bigger. Ask yourself once your finished reading this, how many new friends are in your life because you began talking to someone you met here with a Donzi and similar interests as you? Maybe they even live in your state like in my case.

Second, (yes this is the last point I'm trying to make here) You Can't Always Know How Your Words Are Being Interpreted!!!! I thought I was going to have War of the Worlds at our first club gathering. Turned out to be just 2 more Donzi owners sharing their love of the boats and sharing the Mystic of Donzi. I thank Scot from Donzi.net and Scott from Donzi.org for all they are doing to continue bringing Donzi owners together and helping owners with these boats who need help, advice or just a website to share their experiences like I have in many very lengthy posts. Always remember: You can please some of the people some of the time, but very rarely can you please everyone all of the time.

One last thing....Many have asked why I stepped down from being president of the Midwest Donzi Club. I always said because of the divorce I went through and no longer owning a Donzi. Truth is, because of the divorce and my dollars being so much tighter, I was borrowing money from the club's account. I kept track of what I used and always paid the money back once I received my income tax return, often times putting more than I had borrowed back into the club to add something a little extra. Remember, the club has other people helping all this to happen. I was the out front person, but behind the scenes, there are many who contribute to everything a club does. I was asked by one of those leaders why I was putting my money into the club. They were asking to see bank statements and proof. I don't blame them and to this day I hope they consider me to be a good person. I feel personally that the club is in much better hands now than it ever has been due to it's organization and style of being run now. I congratulate all of you and other people making gatherings happen. Ed from the Lake George Club told me when I 1st talked to him about AOTH. Don't call your meeting an event. Call it a gathering. That way insurance companies can't come after you if the unforeseen were to happen during the gathering. Seems kinda sad, but I'm happy to say that after I left the club, the organizers bought an insurance plan to cover the gathering.

To all.....go out, meet the people you've met on Donzi websites and continue sharing with each other. The Mystic of Donzi will never fade away.

[mattyboy]

Chris
the rift you have noticed is between the Lake George Donzi Classic Club
and the Donzi Marine Restoration Society.
Needless to say "rifts" don't start and grow via words on the internet,
they start and grow by actions taken by a group . Also there is a lot
more happening behind the scenes than people see in public.
For the most part the LGDCC has tried to keep things private and not
air these actions out.


This last action taken against the LGDCC that we have been made aware
of, we feel is so out of line we have to speak out against it.


We can't understand why someone would do this??? not ONCE but THREE times.
The following 3 domain names have been registered


www.lakegeorgedonziclassicclub.com


www.lakegeorgedonziclassicclub.org


www.lakegeorgedonziclassicclub.net


and all 3 domains are pointed to the home of the donzi marine
restoration society donzi.org click on them see what happens at the
time of this posting the links worked.


publicly their response to this rift is just a phone call and we have
extended the olive branch with a face to face, hard to except an
offering of peace when you know the olive branch has been sharpened into
a spear.


never mind the phone call if the Donzi Marine Restoration Society is
truly about the boats the people and the Donzi Mystique. It is time for
action and they should prove their true intent and stop "Cybersquatting"




Matthew W Veth
Member Lake George Donzi Classic Club

[Jraysray]

I don't get the reason for this. I'm a sideline observer here. What's up?

[Scott Pearson]

We dont get it either....

[Ed Donnelly]

A rift between a couple of people ended out in some big changes with this site.

One of the people joined another site.

Some people followed this person to the other site.
Several people started using both sites.

Now there is a rift between two more sites that hardly
anyone knew about until now..

Way to add fuel to the fire...................Ed

[pipnit]

I think in the big scheme of things, most of us don't really give a s*%t, I know I don't. Again, the Internet, it's serious bidness!

[Greg Guimond]

A rift between a couple of people ended in some big changes. Several people started using both sites. Now there is a rift between two more sites ......Ed

I'm certainly out of the loop Ed but there are now four sites out there for Donzi fans in total?

[hardcrab]

most of us don't really give a s*%t,

bingo! .................

[harbormaster]

Scott Baxter and I have no bad blood between us. He had complete administrator rights to donzi.net. One day we had a disagreement over a donzi.net member who had posted an auction on Ebay. He thought I should ban the user. I told him I could not. I work really hard to walk the line for both sides of an issue. The next day I woke to find that Scott had deleted all of his posts on Donzi.net and had left the site. A lot of people left with him. I believe that they thought that I had deleted all of his posts and kicked him out. Some of these people were folks that I had opened my home to. Though shocked and disappointed, I kept my cool and decided to take the high road through all of this.

Scott and I talk frequently on a friendly basis. Though not perfect, I run Donzi.net to the best of my ability welcoming anyone who plays nice with others.
I bear no ill will towards anyone. My site has been in existence since 1997 and is a treasure trove of info for anyone.

As for the registration of domains relating to the lake George Donzi club by someone not affiliated with the club; Its a free country, but I have to pose the question "why would someone would do that?" It does not sound like someone is playing nice. Can the person(s) who did this "man up" and give a reason?
Just curious...

[Conquistador_del_mar]

So the catalyst for the rift was the man who was making money with buying and selling Donzis? Wasn't his name Tom from Florida? He probably moved on to something else by now as have all the rest of us. Thank you Scot for filling in a piece of the mysterious puzzle, and I hope you are doing well. Any chance of another Possum Kingdom gathering in the future? Onwards. Bill

[harbormaster]

Bill,
You are correct. the catalyst at the time for Poodles and my disagreement was Donzi Racer. Scott saw some things about this guy that I did not see till later.
But there is not a "Rift". I am sure that if given the chance for a redo, things would have progressed differently.

There are a few people who do not know how to get along for one reason or another, like a bunch of bitchy women.

Boating is supposed to be fun. There are folks all the time on this site that want to bring their stress or lack of people skills with them on the site. We have no need for this mindset. I personally have no problems with anyone.

[Moody Blu']

This kind of thing does happen, one club becomes 2, 2 becomes 3, 4 becomes 5, etc

in the professional racing kart community there are so many different clubs because of differences of opinion, this divides the community and people take sides or remain neutral and go to both sites and races etc.. the rules and regulations form one club to another for racing makes going from club to club cost more.. different sanctioned tires, exhausts, carbs motors etc... theres one club called SKUSA and it is one of the largest clubs out west. the guy I bought my Kart from(cr125cc shifter) was the race organizer and wrote the entire rule book. when the owner started making certain ruels up to make money the organizer did not approve and left after years of hard work and 2 #1 back to back shifiter class championships. He made the rules fair for all because he was a back to back champion, he wasnt just a guy wanting to make money(unbeknownst to him) thats what the owner of SKUSA wanted. the owner has no championships and was piss poor as far as racing karts. yet he started to implement rules that stated you could only used a SKUSA pipe and SKUSA tires.. Skusa had MG tires and RLV make a pipe just for skusa and they make money off each pipe sold. EVEN HONDA was involved and the skusa rule book made it so if you blew a cylinder up you had to buy a new cylinder, you could not fix and renikasil the cylinders which cost less.. the organizer was out before this happened however he knew it was coming and wanted no part of it.

I tell this story because back when it was in its hay day the skusa organization had so many entries a week they had to sometimes have double the amount of qualifying and ehat races to get down tot he main events.. Once the owner started making rules that caused people to shell out more money for parts they didnt need but had to have if they wanted to race in skusa.. what happened, the number of participants started to drop and staerted going to other organizations... and then another organization would begin because of other difference of opinions..


I bring this up because I talked to the race organizer about building up a new organization that stuck together through thick and thin and made the rules fair and honest so anyone can "rung what ya brung" as long as it passes tech and certain specs are tested AFTER the race.. its still in it infancy but Karting has never been mainstream and its is because of the "rifts" that cause the dissolution and break ups.. I started talking with the skusa race organizer about starting the new national organization and for the most part he was positive about it and I was amazingly enthusiastic about it. I started practicing and racing my kart and won 2nd place my fisrt race in shifter karts(I never raced in any other kart before so it was great). I talked with people and a lot of them were negative as to how hard it would be for me to communicate with the other organizations and try to pull them together to create a national organization.. them telling me im better of starting one all on my own.. thing with that is who is going to go to a race when they dont know you or the organization..

The foundation of any organization that sticks together regardless of difference of opinions is the organization that will become the largest. Once there is a split it makes it harder to get the info for the events harder to race if the specs are different due to money etc.. it just a cluster fvck. just look at CART and IRL, when they split, it screwed it up.

How about everyone from the donzi.org and .net forums get together and VOTE to bring the sites back together or not to. Sounds like most are letting bygones be bygones. I mean, the karting site everyone was like im a newbie.. the donzi sites I been here for a whiiiile. yes I had my financial issues which all of you knew about. I always came back around. It pained me for 5-6 years to not be able to be in the Moody Blu(still does), screw other slow boats its just not the same. Mop hooked my GF up and we are back in a sweet donzi. and going to work on moody blu soon.. making more money to ensure our future is first.. point is, i been around the donzi site for a while and given what I seen on the karting sites I think it will be great for everyone on the donzi sites to get back together as one forum again. or somehow share databases to post on both sites so more advertising can be gained for the server bills.??? I was a newbie on the karting site and it was so far gone with people taking sides etc that I didnt want to be there anymore and ended up not going back.. I jsut go to the tracks and race.

So how bout we put the future of the donzi forums up to the board members.

I vote put them together! let both the .net and .org point to a reivsed forum with all the forums combined. Ill help with the reorganization if need be.

yea i know i rambled. but seriously lets get the sites back together

[Ed Donnelly]

Can't see that happening. I am on both sites and they are run differently.
They have monitors so you can't get out of line as easy as here..
I visit both daily and prefer it that way..Ed

[olredalert]

----Agree with Ed!!!!!!........Bill S

[Donziweasel]

On the other hand Ed, if the two boards merged, you would have 5 moderators, Poodle, Buiz, N20, Bertram boy and Harbormaster.

I was involved in the 2009 melt down. It was a sad day and I think many of those involved got caught up in a lot of pent up stuff that had been building for years. I regret what happened. Since then, I have tried to make amends with those I feel I did wrong to and tried to bury the bone with those I disagreed with. Most accept my apology or worked things out-but not all.

It shocked me to see some of the people who posted on this thread they want to community whole again, because at least one would not reply to repeated attempts to bury the hatchet. If you want this community to become one again, you musty take a step in that direction, and that means finding common ground with other members that in the past you disagreed with or got into it with.

I tried. Scot is right, boating should be fun and not a bitch session on these boards. I am guilty as charged, but I have also matured and had my butt kicked personally since 2009.

[Moody Blu']

I think we all have had our butt kicked since 08-09.. me with my finances and a crazy ex girlfriend- that girl taught me so much without telling me anything. I took many seminars that unravvelled my mind and why I was the way I was and why I was the way I wasnt.

I learned pride is the bain of life.. the sooner I swallowed my pride the easier life was.

Life is too short to walk around being pissed off because someone said or did something. We all react because of something within us all that occured when we were young. Letting go is one of the hardest things to do when you rarely let go. When you let go once, then twice then a third time it gets easier and easier. Dont hold onto anger it will screw with your everyday decisions. its important to have conversations openly and honestly as to what triggered your feelings and emotions and let the other person know. Sure that may not be the macho thing to do in some perspectives, however in the perspective I am in, letting people know how what they did caused your emotions and feelings to react is mroe macho then not telling them.

We all go at our own paces and for the most part a lot of us are still kids deep down and still act out as a kid as much as we may not want to admit it thats how our brain works. Its up to us to get over the issues from our past.They go back further then most of us think, they start at childhood, someone said or did something to us that made us make a decision in our mind and form that point on we had a skewed perspective because of the one instance. We are all big enough to get past the childhood criticism that happened when we were young, so we can move on and enjoy the PRESENT not live in the PAST.