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Just Say N20
06-02-2013, 08:31 PM
I figured, hey, time to start a new thread rather than hopelessly keep in the campaign for the most viewed/most pages thread, that gcarter will have locked up for all time. . . . :)

With the help of Trueser, we got the Keith Eickert engine fired up. And WOW!

It barks and crackles delightfully (videos to follow).

All along my goal was to build a boat that easily cruised at 45 - 50 mph. BAM! Done! :kingme:

There are a few things to sort out, but a brief review.

After 3 years of rebuild C16-409, I ran it for about 50 hours with an engine I had built that turned out to be less than I had hoped, around 260 hp.

An opportunity presented itself, that was too good to pass up. A 1972 400 from a Caprice, and some very nicely ported/polished “double hump” 202 heads were donated to me, if I would do this project. Through a series of remarkable events, Keith Eickert ending up building this engine for me. Then came the CMI exhaust issues, but on the 3rd try, they made a set that were what I asked for, and actually mounted to the engine.

I will spare you the details of other “normal” bumps in the road that are associated with building a custom anything.

So, how did it perform? Absolutely over the top.

I have a Volvo 290 outdrive with trim. 1.61:1 gears. The engine has 430 hp @ 5,300, and 490 ft lbs @ 4,300, with 460 ft lbs available at 3,000 rpms.

Others have told stories of their experiences with Solas props (which Grizz engineered with Solas for Donzi classics, and old Volvo outdrives). Many have said how they bought the 23 and found their engine didn’t have enough to turn it much past 4,200. Others, encouraged me that this was the prop I needed for my boat. So last year I bought one.

Here is how it performed. I didn’t have a GPS with me, but I have found the Faria Speedo to be accurate within a couple mph.Ammended: I recall that over the winter I replaced the original 0 - 60 speedo head, with a 0 - 80 head. I knew how accurate the original was after comparing it to my Garmin Nuvi and iPhone GPS. I don’t know how accurate this unit is. More accurate information will follow when I get the GPS on board.

2,500 rpms = 31 mph
3,000 rpms = 41 mph
3,500 rpms = 51 mph.

Already, I was delighted. It was effortless to cruise at 50.

Because of where I mounted the speedo pickup, it isn’t in the water when the boat is going much over 55, so I really don’t know how rpm vs speed went beyond 3,500.

I DO know, that at pretty much whatever speed you are running, nudging the throttle is about the same as nailing the throttle on a crotch-rocket. It literally leaps forward. I have never felt anything like it in a boat before.

And, it spun the Solas 23 to 4,000, then 4,500, then 5,000, then 5,300! This engine has some SERIOUS guts!

Trueser was running beside me, and might have a photo or 2, or maybe a video to share.

For now, I’m delighted. There are a few issues to sort out, but I’m certain that with the collective intelligence, and experience available, it shouldn’t be much of an issue.

But at this moment, I’m extremely happy with how things are turning out.

MOP
06-02-2013, 09:22 PM
Put a smile on my puss sounds great! Talking about Camel Backs, been 40 years since I ran a set. A pair of those along with a real lumpy Giovanni cam woke up a SB of mine.

Conquistador_del_mar
06-02-2013, 10:16 PM
Wow Bill, that engine sounds serious. Congrats on all the work turning out so well. :yes:

Donzi_Dude
06-03-2013, 05:31 AM
congrats on a job well done and a great looking /running boat. looks like you are running in the 70's with ease.

gcarter
06-03-2013, 07:58 AM
A BIG step up, eh?

Congratulations!

mattyboy
06-03-2013, 08:20 AM
Nice work Bill

Kirbyvv
06-03-2013, 09:30 AM
Nice, It's been a long wait. Now go boating.

Bobby D
06-03-2013, 10:10 AM
Congratulations the engine sounds awesome

mattyboy
06-03-2013, 11:42 AM
Bill
I think you have found your prop. The ones I sent you I don't think will stack up to the solas. I may be wrong cause I never had the power or trim to really spin either of them. But I think the solas will be your go to prop.
Again nice job

Ghost
06-03-2013, 11:48 AM
Really great to hear--sounds like the motor is finally delivering and the prop may be just right. Have to try a GPS since your boat is too fast for your speedo to work. One of those GOOD problems. :)

Are you now a fellow member of the I-can-cruise-faster-than-I-could-run-WOT-before club?

Just Say N20
06-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Are you now a fellow member of the I-can-cruise-faster-than-I-could-run-WOT-before club?

Mike, It ran 57.3 tops before. Will it cruise faster than that? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it would be a comfortable cruise. Interesting things start to happen in a Ski-Sporter above 55. No matter how awesome the design, it is still only a 16' boat.

When I used to ride in Brad's 22 that had a 454 and a 1.36 alpha, I used to be jealous that he could cruise at 47 @ 3,000 rpms. Now I'm almost in the same range. But even to cruise over 30 at 2,500 is awesome.

I will get some GPS readings when it is all sorted out.

Just Say N20
06-03-2013, 12:49 PM
Bill
I think you have found your prop. The ones I sent you I don't think will stack up to the solas. I may be wrong cause I never had the power or trim to really spin either of them. But I think the solas will be your go to prop.
Again nice job

I think you may be right. I'm going to try the cleaver, just because. I would like to try the chopper, but not enough to spend bucks for the spacer/washer needed.

Donzi_Dude
06-03-2013, 01:30 PM
hey look @ it this way. the excessive HP club has another member.


:)

roadtrip se
06-03-2013, 02:58 PM
Mike, It ran 57.3 tops before. Will it cruise faster than that? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it would be a comfortable cruise. Interesting things start to happen in a Ski-Sporter above 55. No matter how awesome the design, it is still only a 16' boat.
.

Not to instigate, but perhaps to inspire, Bill... I ran well into the 70's with Rootsy in a 16 with an Alpha SS, and in some really sloppy Lake St.Clair waters. I will never forget it, because a three foot wall of water came over the nose at one point, and seriously got my attention. Then last summer, Sweetcheekz showed her true colors on the Gorge Run, when I had to go way over 70+ to run with and then by him. It can be done, but as you already know, the drive is the next frontier for you, should you chose to go there. If not, you gots a torque monster! All of that said, congrats on the power increase, now you are spoiled, and always remember; there is no replacement for displacement. Just ask Jeff C if he misses that 496 in the Aronow boat; I think not!

Just Say N20
06-03-2013, 03:49 PM
It can be done, but as you already know, the drive is the next frontier for you, should you chose to go there. If not, you gots a torque monster! All of that said, congrats on the power increase, now you are spoiled, and always remember; there is no replacement for displacement.

The drive was actually suggested as an important upgrade, right AFTER I had just repainted the hull, and reinstalled the drive and first engine. Not going to happen.

From a safety standpoint, the next upgrade will have to be external hydraulic steering. Mine being cable steering, and still using the old Volvo helmet set up, it is just a little too loose. I have found that the boat’s manners increase dramatically if you get into the slightest turn. It appears that there is then a constant pressure on all the steering components, and the drive doesn’t oscillate. Not the long term answer, but proves out where the problem is.

When asked to describe his first ride in my Ski-Sporter, my 15 year old passenger didn’t get too far into the description before the words “really chine-walks” entered the conversation. . . .

And, I was serious about the design goal. I enjoy a supremely fast ride as much as anyone. I had an 87 RADAR mph boat in 1981. I’m appreciative when Jeff takes me for a ride in his red rocket; Prop Blast. I LOVED the 112 mph blast in the 42 Cig, and the 134 mph ride in the 39 cat. But for a variety of reasons, I don’t see myself going down that ultimate top speed path with this boat. If it now runs in the upper 60s or even 70, I’m very happy. Experience has shown that an honest 70 will beat many of the “80 mph” boats out there. And a 16 can't handle as much water as a 22, so the conditions for SAFELY running over 70 are rarer.

And I must admit, when this thing starts up at the launch, NOBODY expects those awesome engine sounds from this boat. People’s reactions when they realize it isn’t some 28’ wave crusher, but this little 16 sounding so “manly,” will be fun to watch. It used to happen with the previous, stock/muffled engine, so I can only imagine the looks on people’s faces now.

And if Jeff and I are ever at the ramp at the same time . . . . . . . .:eek!: :eek: :yes:

Greg Guimond
06-03-2013, 06:03 PM
From a safety standpoint, the next upgrade will have to be external hydraulic steering, mine being cable steering. When asked to describe his first ride in my Ski-Sporter, my 15 year old passenger didn’t get too far into the description before the words “really chine-walks” entered the conversation. . .I don’t see myself going down that ultimate top speed path with this boat. If it now runs in the upper 60s or even 70, I’m very happy. Experience has shown that an honest 70 will beat many of the “80 mph” boats out there. :eek!: :eek: :yes:

That build sounds great Bill and as someone who routinely tickles 80mph with my 16 you are spot on with the steering upgrade. Money well spent. Let us know how the dial in turns out :lightning

maddad
06-03-2013, 06:10 PM
Way to go. If you spun that 23" Solas to 5300, you're in the 70mph club.

Greg Guimond
06-03-2013, 08:31 PM
And not to forget Ed D with the 100mph 16 from back in the day..........:kaioken:

Ed Donnelly
06-03-2013, 08:31 PM
Steering upgrade and a very slight left turn when hitting the big numbers will eliminate the chine walk

Then a pad and step LOL ..Ed

Just Say N20
06-03-2013, 08:39 PM
Way to go. If you spun that 23" Solas to 5300, you're in the 70mph club.

I’m certain I saw 5,300. But honestly, I was paying way more attention to the water.

Photo courtesy of Trueser. It has a different look, with “mist” behind the boat, instead of spray.

I think I was at 4,500 when he snapped this picture.

duckhunter
06-03-2013, 09:48 PM
The 400 sounds killer and looks like it performs the same! Really great seeing a project come to a happy ending.

A lot of people are used to seeing these 16s with a 190hp 4.3 - you're going to surprise the heck out of them with this beast!

roadtrip se
06-04-2013, 10:48 AM
The drive was actually suggested as an important upgrade, right AFTER I had just repainted the hull, and reinstalled the drive and first engine. Not going to happen.

From a safety standpoint, the next upgrade will have to be external hydraulic steering. Mine being cable steering, and still using the old Volvo helmet set up, it is just a little too loose. I have found that the boat’s manners increase dramatically if you get into the slightest turn. It appears that there is then a constant pressure on all the steering components, and the drive doesn’t oscillate. Not the long term answer, but proves out where the problem is.

When asked to describe his first ride in my Ski-Sporter, my 15 year old passenger didn’t get too far into the description before the words “really chine-walks” entered the conversation. . . .

And, I was serious about the design goal. I enjoy a supremely fast ride as much as anyone. I had an 87 RADAR mph boat in 1981. I’m appreciative when Jeff takes me for a ride in his red rocket; Prop Blast. I LOVED the 112 mph blast in the 42 Cig, and the 134 mph ride in the 39 cat. But for a variety of reasons, I don’t see myself going down that ultimate top speed path with this boat. If it now runs in the upper 60s or even 70, I’m very happy. Experience has shown that an honest 70 will beat many of the “80 mph” boats out there. And a 16 can't handle as much water as a 22, so the conditions for SAFELY running over 70 are rarer.

And I must admit, when this thing starts up at the launch, NOBODY expects those awesome engine sounds from this boat. People’s reactions when they realize it isn’t some 28’ wave crusher, but this little 16 sounding so “manly,” will be fun to watch. It used to happen with the previous, stock/muffled engine, so I can only imagine the looks on people’s faces now.

And if Jeff and I are ever at the ramp at the same time . . . . . . . .:eek!: :eek: :yes:


I live, literally, by the SAFE handling aspects of a fast running Donzi. I bet I have one of the only Donzi Classics in the country, where you can momentarily take your hands off the steering wheel at WOT, and nothing happens. Could I be faster, with a different set-up? Absolutely. But, based on where I do the majority of my boating, here in Michigan, handling comes first, always. Jeff's boat has a lot of the handling enhancements that I developed, some in concert with Brian and Potter, some without, so you have experienced this for yourself. It works.

I came out of some very quick Fountains, some that easily broke 100+. I have been in several cats that run much faster than that. I didn't buy a Classic to be the fastest guy. This is just me, but I bought it for the challenge.

Improved steering, of any kind, is always a great idea. But, drive and prop selection, and the inherit design qualities and flaws of both, are going to have a huge impact on how that power gets to the water.

Have fun with your testing and again, congrats!

BUIZILLA
06-04-2013, 11:23 AM
momentarily hands off? :cool:

I went 6 miles at AOTH and never touched the wheel at WFO, albeit with a slower canoe than yours, I probably could have gone another 30-40 miles but a few mountains got in the way, I have gone as far as 18-20 miles, straight and level as an arrow, in the bay though :wink:

roadtrip se
06-04-2013, 01:11 PM
momentarily hands off? :cool:

I went 6 miles at AOTH and never touched the wheel at WFO, albeit with a slower canoe than yours, I probably could have gone another 30-40 miles but a few mountains got in the way, I have gone as far as 18-20 miles, straight and level as an arrow, in the bay though :wink:

You forgot to mention that big s***-eating grin on your face, too. Nothing better than a great handling Classic.