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mattyboy
05-10-2013, 11:50 AM
Looks like they think the market for small affordable sport/go fast is still viable

If I make it over to Lk Hopatcong this sunday I will take a look

http://www.sutphenboats.com/


pretty poetic that is where it all started for Sutphen back in the day Lk Hopatcong

Just Say N20
05-10-2013, 12:22 PM
Interesting, but they are showing it with a 40 hp engine? That doesn’t really promote the “high performance” image.

mattyboy
05-10-2013, 12:40 PM
yeah probably their entry level model that's why I said sport/go fast . wonder what the numbers are on the 40 ?? as a kid we had an invader 10 footer with a 40 merc not sure it was high performance but it was exciting ;)

will try and get more info if I see it Sunday

Greg Guimond
05-10-2013, 04:51 PM
Matty, nice find. It will be interesting to see what you are able to dig up. Correct me, but didn't Richie Sr start the business in Lake H, or was the business started by the great grandfather and now in it's 3rd generation. A lot of lineage there and nice to see.

bertsboat
05-10-2013, 05:08 PM
WOW! $67000.00 for a 21' with a 350 up to $120000.00 for fully loaded 21.
I don't know how to comment. That the price listed in the Canadian Power Boat magazine.

You guys think that's a good deal?

Greg Guimond
05-10-2013, 06:29 PM
That magazine issue is from July of 2012 and you got to love a writer who opens an article with prices! That said, wouldn't a 22 Classic cost the same if you could buy one new? The 525 Sutphen 21 GPS'd at 93.4mph.

olredalert
05-10-2013, 09:54 PM
----I know its a new boat and all but I think Id rather plop (lets just say) $60 to $90 in an old Cig 20 than one of these. As well, Im not really a big 22 Classic fan (oh please,,,dont hate me) but with that said Id rather have a 22 classic with a 500 or 525!!! At least you would have some hope of a resale value when selling.......Bill S

roadtrip se
05-10-2013, 11:18 PM
I like seeing boat companys trying to make boating more affordable and accessible, so I applaud Sutphen for attempting the 16 outboard combo. But 40HP? That would suck to be passed by a tri-toon first time out in your new "performance" boat. Checkmate is doing something similar in an 18 bowrider, but it is powered to start by an Optimax 115. And it retails at $30-ishK with that package. Still within reach of a normal income. That 16 would have to be dirt cheap in comparsion.

As for the 21, no way is it comparable to a 22 Classic. That deadrise may improve a top end number, but the handling costs were obvious in the 496HO version I rode in. I've said it before, but the handling felt like a wet popsicle skipping aross the water, as it just wasn't planted. No way in hell, I would want to get in that hull and run 90+ in any sort of real world conditions. I would do it all day long in a 22 Classic, and have.

joseph m. hahnl
05-11-2013, 07:32 AM
Perhaps the 40Hp is to show it will go with minimal HP and cost . I would think the CG rating would be conservative around 70Hp. Personally, I don't particularly find Stuphens that appealing. They are sharp! But something about them, just doesn't float with me.

Greg Guimond
05-11-2013, 08:06 AM
I'm behind anyone who is building new products in this economy and I think you are correct about keeping the cost down with a 40. Tuff Boats new 16 model has standard power of 90hp. They also build the worlds fastest production 21 at $80k out the door, which does 102mph with a stock 300XS........:eek:

mattyboy
05-11-2013, 08:12 AM
Matty, nice find. It will be interesting to see what you are able to dig up. Correct me, but didn't Richie Sr start the business in Lake H, or was the business started by the great grandfather and now in it's 3rd generation. A lot of lineage there and nice to see.

not sure who started it just know that is where they started and were big on Lk H and also my lake back in the 70's, i would imagine that this is Rich Jr .

in that pic that Bill was nice enough to post the lines remind me of that little invader. Looks to be an entry level sport boat with the bench seats and OB power.
so if it doesn't rain tom. I'll be at the races and will try and get more info.

MR MAGOO
05-11-2013, 09:34 AM
As for the 21, no way is it comparable to a 22 Classic. That deadrise may improve a top end number, but the handling costs were obvious in the 496HO version I rode in. I've said it before, but the handling felt like a wet popsicle skipping aross the water, as it just wasn't planted. No way in hell, I would want to get in that hull and run 90+ in any sort of real world conditions. I would do it all day long in a 22 Classic, and have.

Got to strongly disagree with you on this one even though I've been a Donzi fan for decades andowned a new 22 Classic back in the eighties. Did not keep it very long as it had rather odd handling issues such as bow steer... I've spent a lot of time in the 21 Sutphens and have a 2010 350MPI powered one here at my house. It handles incredible, much more stable than the 22 Donzi and handles moderate chop with ease, getting on top and running flat. It's also very efficient, running 73 mph with a labbed 27p Mirage Plus.

bertsboat
05-11-2013, 09:37 AM
If a boat has a capacity of two passengers it is exempt from Coast Guard flotation requirements and testing therefore they can make and sell them at a much lower price. Craig Cat is an example. Also, you can rent them out like they do with Craig Cats and you do not need a Coast Guard approval.

Greg Guimond
05-11-2013, 09:46 AM
I believe that only Tuff, Sutphen, and Checkmate are currently building new "production" 16 foot speedboats.

BUIZILLA
05-11-2013, 10:24 AM
a 40hp 4 stroke weighs as much, if not more, than a 70hp 2 stroke...

MR MAGOO
05-11-2013, 10:30 AM
I was told by Morgan @ Sutphen the reasoning behind the 40hp is for the Canadian market. In Canada, a 12 yr old can legally operate a boat up to 40hp. I'm sure it would be a hoot with a 90 on it!

Greg Guimond
05-11-2013, 10:42 AM
That is interesting, I'm not familiar with the specific laws up there but know that Rich Jr has sent several boats to dealers in Canada including the 525 equipped 21 that clocked 93 on GPS. Sutphen must be developing that market further with the new 16's.

roadtrip se
05-11-2013, 11:49 AM
Got to strongly disagree with you on this one even though I've been a Donzi fan for decades andowned a new 22 Classic back in the eighties. Did not keep it very long as it had rather odd handling issues such as bow steer... I've spent a lot of time in the 21 Sutphens and have a 2010 350MPI powered one here at my house. It handles incredible, much more stable than the 22 Donzi and handles moderate chop with ease, getting on top and running flat. It's also very efficient, running 73 mph with a labbed 27p Mirage Plus.

Glad you like your Sutphen. And for the record, I have nothing against Morgan, great guy when I met him. I just wasn't impressed with his product. And for the reasons I have already stated. We boat in some very adverse conditions, at times here, in the Great Lakes, and I'll take my 24 degree dead rise over what I experienced on my demo ride. As for the 22 having built-in handling issues, there are enough folks here to help with just about any opportunity you might have, and I have tapped into it and shared lessons learned, a bunch over the years. The Flowerboat handles beautifully, and oh BTW, it could be faster than it is, but I set it up for handling first, so my wife will actually ride with me, too. A different butt for every seat, and good luck.

Greg. I am starting to see a lot of Checkmate outboards around lately. Seems like a cool little boat, but their website doesn't mention a 16.

http://www.checkmatepowerboats.net/

Greg Guimond
05-12-2013, 03:35 PM
I guess Checkmate stopped building the 16's. I wonder why Hornet Marine doesn't build a few 16 weed wackers and put either a small block ETEC 200 or Merc 200XS on it. I'd happily offer "testing" services :rlol: I wonder how the cost and performance would compare to their I/O model. The ETEC might deliver 60mph light on fuel.

Just Say N20
05-12-2013, 07:50 PM
Greg, Patience Grasshopper. :cool:

mattyboy
05-12-2013, 08:19 PM
Had a great day over in Lake Hopatcong at the OPA event something came up in the Sutphen camp that they couldn't make it hope it is nothing serious . saw a lot of different brands running , met some great people and one Donzi owner. I wore the old school colors I'll start a new thread with the pics and vids. this was a first time event hope they do it next year had a blast

duckhunter
05-12-2013, 09:33 PM
I guess Checkmate stopped building the 16's. I wonder why Hornet Marine doesn't build a few 16 weed wackers and put either a small block ETEC 200 or Merc 200XS on it. I'd happily offer "testing" services :rlol: I wonder how the cost and performance would compare to their I/O model. The ETEC might deliver 60mph light on fuel.

A couple of years ago I fell in love with a restored 19 Checkmate with a 300XS on the back. It had four bucket seats with custom consoles in between. The driver's center console had the throttle and a bunch of toggle switches (LH steer boat). Very similar to what Parnell did with Sweet Cheekz. Really really slick setup, and probably an 80+ mph boat. Almost dropped the hammer on it but it wasn't "practical" enough at the time.

The little Sutphen is pretty cool, glad to see some more entry level boats out there. I'd love to see one of the Hornets with a whacker.

Greg Guimond
05-12-2013, 10:11 PM
Greg, Patience Grasshopper. :cool:

Bill, throw a wacker on the back of this Hornet 17 with your chop skills

Greg Guimond
05-12-2013, 10:40 PM
Had a great day over in Lake Hopatcong at the OPA event something came up in the Sutphen camp that they couldn't make it hope it is nothing serious . saw a lot of different brands running

Among the shipbuilders at Elco at the time was another family member, Samuel Sutphen, a young married man and father of a young son, Richard. After the war ended, the ardent wish of almost everyone was a quick return to normalcy. People wanted to pickup their lives where they’d left off before the war, turned things upside down. For Sam Sutphen, the answer was in owning his own marina where he could build any kind of boat he wanted but at his own speed. There in Lake Hopatcong, NJ, he turned out fishing boats, sail boats, speed boats... even an occasional barge. And inevitably by his side was his son Richie, father and son, elder teaching younger like a sponge soaking up everything his dad showed him about how to be a master boat builder. That’s where the knowledge for plug and mold building became etched in his mind for use in later years



“When fiberglass hit the market I started racing skiboats, then hydros. In the early 60’s I competed all over North America” he recalls. He drove boats for factory teams and himself; seat time in 165+MPH boats gave him a look at a new dimension, persistence. That’s where he developed his skills for what was to come...his own company, he continued to work out of his dad’s marina till 1965. It was then that he made the decision to break away and devote all his time and energies to manufacturing fiberglass boats. “If you are to build something unique, you had better have the ability to do it on your own merits and not copy someone else’s design which is so prevalent in this industry.

Just Say N20
05-12-2013, 11:09 PM
Quick hack job. But it gives you something to consider. The engine is a Mercury 150 Four-stroke.

mattyboy
05-13-2013, 08:49 AM
Among the shipbuilders at Elco at the time was another family member, Samuel Sutphen, a young married man and father of a young son, Richard. After the war ended, the ardent wish of almost everyone was a quick return to normalcy. People wanted to pickup their lives where they’d left off before the war, turned things upside down. For Sam Sutphen, the answer was in owning his own marina where he could build any kind of boat he wanted but at his own speed. There in Lake Hopatcong, NJ, he turned out fishing boats, sail boats, speed boats... even an occasional barge. And inevitably by his side was his son Richie, father and son, elder teaching younger like a sponge soaking up everything his dad showed him about how to be a master boat builder. That’s where the knowledge for plug and mold building became etched in his mind for use in later years



“When fiberglass hit the market I started racing skiboats, then hydros. In the early 60’s I competed all over North America” he recalls. He drove boats for factory teams and himself; seat time in 165+MPH boats gave him a look at a new dimension, persistence. That’s where he developed his skills for what was to come...his own company, he continued to work out of his dad’s marina till 1965. It was then that he made the decision to break away and devote all his time and energies to manufacturing fiberglass boats. “If you are to build something unique, you had better have the ability to do it on your own merits and not copy someone else’s design which is so prevalent in this industry.

Greg can I get a foot note??

biggiefl
05-13-2013, 11:38 AM
I had a 1979 Checkmate 16' Predictor with a 115 Tower o' Power on it and she was a solid 55mph ride. Neighbor had a 140 Looper on his and it would do over 60. They only weighed like 700lbs. That 16 Sutphen with a 40 I would bet on 35mph due to design. It 'should" be able to handle 115 or so and get close to 55+. Doing 50+ in a boat that small is a hoot and much lower than a Donzi/Hornet to the water. I had a 15' Boston Whaler with a slightly modded 70 OMC and she would do 48+ and it took everything you had to keep yourself from flying out of her. Ever drive a 12' Mini-Hawk with a 40 on it?

roadtrip se
05-13-2013, 03:57 PM
Ever drive a 12' Mini-Hawk with a 40 on it?

Old guy on the corner in Kentucky pulls one out on every major weekend and puts a for sale sign on it. Merc 75HP (at least that is what the cowling sticker says, ahem) on the transom spinning a small five blade. I've stopped and looked at it, talked to the man who offers no details on it (I ask a question and he looks at me like the thing dropped off the moon last night into his front yard), I've noticed the transom about ready to come off the boat, ask for a starting price which he never gives me and suggests an offer, and I get in my truck and leave. Maybe I need to suggest a demo ride on Memorial Day coming up and then maybe I might make an offer. This has been going on for a couple of years now, and the routine repeats every time almost exactly to the letter....

Greg Guimond
05-13-2013, 06:03 PM
That 16 Sutphen with a 40 I would bet on 35mph due to design. It 'should" be able to handle 115 or so and get close to 55+. Doing 50+ in a boat that small is a hoot and much lower than a Donzi/Hornet to the water.

The Sutphen does look to have lower freeboard than a 16 Baby. I say put a 225 on it and let 'er rip. Same for the Hornet :yes:

duckhunter
05-13-2013, 09:38 PM
Old guy on the corner in Kentucky pulls one out on every major weekend and puts a for sale sign on it. Merc 75HP (at least that is what the cowling sticker says, ahem) on the transom spinning a small five blade. I've stopped and looked at it, talked to the man who offers no details on it (I ask a question and he looks at me like the thing dropped off the moon last night into his front yard), I've noticed the transom about ready to come off the boat, ask for a starting price which he never gives me and suggests an offer, and I get in my truck and leave. Maybe I need to suggest a demo ride on Memorial Day coming up and then maybe I might make an offer. This has been going on for a couple of years now, and the routine repeats every time almost exactly to the letter....

Flowerpot II. You know you want to. She can be a tender for the Formula!

roadtrip se
05-14-2013, 12:06 AM
Flowerpot II. You know you want to. She can be a tender for the Formula!

That would be cool....

BUIZILLA
05-14-2013, 07:50 AM
a 16OB makes an awesome tender... :yes:

roadtrip se
05-14-2013, 10:45 AM
Last year, we toyed with consolidating. Selling the lake house in Kentucky and moving the Formula back to the Great Lakes.
After shopping RIBs, and realizing how much stupid money they are, I was on the hunt for something more "tender-like".
Since I like to buy high and sell low, the lake house didn't sell, and the Formula is a glorified, but real nice, day boat at this
point, so we don't need a tender. But the Mini-Hawk is pretty cool and only 12 feet long....

mattyboy
05-15-2013, 12:22 PM
I guess Checkmate stopped building the 16's..


rumor has it Checkmate has closed it's doors for good

duckhunter
05-15-2013, 10:27 PM
Last year, we toyed with consolidating. Selling the lake house in Kentucky and moving the Formula back to the Great Lakes.
After shopping RIBs, and realizing how much stupid money they are, I was on the hunt for something more "tender-like".
Since I like to buy high and sell low, the lake house didn't sell, and the Formula is a glorified, but real nice, day boat at this
point, so we don't need a tender. But the Mini-Hawk is pretty cool and only 12 feet long....

If you get serious about a tender, 11' and 13' Whalers are all over the place in various states of functionality for reasonable money. Cool boats and already rigged to hoist on a big boat. They are also easily reinforced at the bow eye for towing on a bridle behind the mothership. My little 13 will run mid-30s with the 40hp Evinrude and I think she's pretty classy with the robin's egg blue and mahogany interior. Just the ticket for doing a beer & burger run while leaving the big boat anchored in the cove. The Mini-Hawk would be cool for that as well. Or maybe the elusive Donzi Dink. RIBs are practical, but like you said huge money and kinda ugly (in a utilitarian way).


rumor has it Checkmate has closed it's doors for good

Hadn't heard that about Checkmate, that's a shame if true. They made some really great boats over the years.

mattyboy
06-07-2013, 02:36 PM
Looks like our Northern neighbor has a real taste for the 16 2 more on their way north

talk about a tandem trailer

Greg Guimond
06-07-2013, 06:48 PM
Sutphen Squared! Are those being built in Hopatcong?
:clap:

That trailer certainly makes the transport economical. Those 16's need 200 ETEC small block's on the back though to make them sing.

Greg Guimond
06-07-2013, 10:19 PM
I'm assuming that Rich Jr. is building the 16's down in Florida and that picture is from his shop location down there. I wonder what the Sutphen 16 weighs as compared to a 16 Donzi Baby?

duckhunter
06-07-2013, 11:48 PM
That trailer certainly makes the transport economical. Those 16's need 200 ETEC small block's on the back though to make them sing.

What kind of performance do you think they would get with the ETEC? What if you went full retard and threw a 300xs on there? :shocker:

Greg Guimond
06-08-2013, 12:07 AM
I put a 300 on my 16 to check it out. It would depend on the weight but I would think 64-68 with a small block ETEC on the Sutphen 16

RBT
06-12-2013, 07:34 PM
Tuff 16 with a 150 ran in the 90's

BUIZILLA
06-12-2013, 07:45 PM
Tuff 16 with a 150 ran in the 90's yeah, right


I call BS

RBT
06-12-2013, 08:23 PM
Go look it up on scream and fly, video and everything.

BUIZILLA
06-12-2013, 09:01 PM
with a 150hp? not on this planet..

my statement stands, I don't need to see a bogus video...

Just Say N20
06-12-2013, 09:59 PM
Jim, just in case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOh-YewzPc0

I had a 16 that ran 87 RADAR mph. It took a 200 Evinrude, jack plate, nose cone, 31” prop and a 450 pound boat to do it.

I was running about 84 here. Looks a LOT faster than this boat running 90. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwdtAJ56Im0

I’m with Jim on this one. That is a nice running boat, but 90. . . .:cool:

RBT
06-13-2013, 07:35 AM
I will just call ignorance.

There was a time I would argue, I am long past those days. Probably shouldn't mention that a tuff 28 runs 95.5 with a 525, or the 21 in my garage runs 102.6 with a stock 300 xs.
The bottom on sutphens are in the stone ages..... Kinda like donzi's

BUIZILLA
06-13-2013, 09:07 AM
call it what you want..... if you say that's a stock 150, I call BS

go here and get back to us with the prop and rpm required > http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm a STOCK 150 has a 2.0 ratio STOCK gearcase, I stopped at 40" prop and 6000 rpm which is the rev limit on that engine if it's a stock Opti-150 or an EFI 150 and it came up with .014 slippage, the calculator won't go past 40" pitch :rolleyes:....,

however if you stop the video at the 5-6 sec mark, and blow up the pic, you can see that it is NOT a stock 150 midsection, or lower, in either an old cowl or a newer 2.0 Opti cowl, and if you crank up the volume you can hear that it's wayyyyyyyy north of the 6000 rpm rev limit window of either STOCK 150 EFI engine configuration....

I don't think a stock 150 will turn a 40" wheel, do you?

correct me if i'm wrong, but there's never been an Action, Hydrostream, Allison, Mirage, Checkmate etc., on record, thats run anywhere near 92 with a stock 150...

there isn't a single Merc test report in their entire library of hulls that even comes remotely close to that either....

the video is 12 sec long, are you telling us that that boat accellerated from a slow just on plane rollout to 92 mph in less than 12 sec when the first 3 sec is getting planed out correctly??? that video ain't 92 mph my friend

not on this planet, with a stock 150

now, if you have a worked 200 2.0/2.5 liter under a 150 deckled cowling, then I might start to believe this...

RBT
06-13-2013, 11:38 AM
Ugh.
Why I am bothering is beyond me.

The power head is a STOCK 150 xr6, it is mounted to a merc 15" midsection with an 1.87 ratio sportmaster. There is ZERO hp to be gained, bottom end power is lost due to the larger exhaust path in the adaptor plate. The power head is carborated, there is no rev limiter, power drops of dramatically after 6100 rpm. In this case the motor was running. 6400 rpm with a 32 pitch lightning et prop
I suggest you redo your math.

Btw, it is well documented there are MANY Allison xr2001's over 110 with STOCK 200 powerhead's, they weigh significantly more than this little tuff

BUIZILLA
06-13-2013, 12:09 PM
then you don't have a stock 150, nor do you have a production engine that Merc ever produced for *recreational* use, you used parts from 3 different engines or racing parts bins to make a race ready engine....

I could care less that an Allison runs over 110 with a stock 200, thats not the issue here, you bragged about a 150... and a 200 won't go over 100 with a stock mid or lower either, on any hull...

I've had an XR6 before, which is why I challenged your claims, it made more than 150 at the prop... noticeably more...

if your going to come onto someone elses brand website, and bloat your news, then perhaps you should have been more straight up, upfront... about the engine parts stackup

at 11% slip, I get 92.3.... doable, but still doubtfull, unless the total weight of the driver, hull, fuel, engine, rigging, etc is under 1400#

hard to believe there's not more slip with a 5" shorter midsection, but hey, stranger miracles have occurred

don't call somebody ignorant if you haven't been honest up front

we're not all stupid here...

enjoy your day

biggiefl
06-13-2013, 01:23 PM
Looked more like 60-70 to me in the video.

RBT
06-13-2013, 01:48 PM
The powerhead is stock, the mid is 5" shorter to allow the motor height required, weight is more in the 1100 lb range.
My friend is the builder if tuff, another is the Canadian sutphen dealer, I know these boats well, the Tuff's will run circles around them all. I don't think many realize how small the tuff 16 and sutphen are. The donzi 16 is a lot bigger.
As for another website, I have a 16/18 and minx.

seabuddy
06-13-2013, 02:06 PM
The Tuff 16 is promoted at boat shows as the fastest 40 Hp boat "legal for teens" in Canada.

The boat builder says 90 HP is the max.

If one buys a new boat, motor, and trailer, I would think that it would be insured. Insurance is hard, if not impossible, to get with a boat that has more than the boat builder's max power.

I hear that these hulls weight around 500 lbs.

From the boat builder.

Length; 16' 10"
Beam; 63"
Max hp; 90hp

seabuddy
06-13-2013, 02:09 PM
In Canada, I understand that those under 16, are limited to 40 Hp, or some such thing. Further, thw Tuff 16 was created to fit within that rule. said to be a 40-45 mph boat with a 40 HP.

seabuddy
06-13-2013, 02:22 PM
They also make one this size, to get around any USA coast guard rules.

Length 20' 8"
Beam 7' 7"

76355

biggiefl
06-13-2013, 02:56 PM
Looks like a Superboat or a Progression.

Greg Guimond
06-13-2013, 05:01 PM
I thought the whole idea of the "Talk About Other Boats" section was to be able to talk about other boats?

Greg Guimond
06-13-2013, 05:15 PM
My 16 OB Baby weight ...........



We were able to put the hull and the deck on an electronic 2000lb scale. The hull weighed in at 698lbs. Then we did the reconfigured deck and it came in at 409lbs, more then I would have thought. Total weight unrigged and without gas tank is 1107 lbs. The 16 Baby's have some Baby Fat left over!

As a point of comparison the 20' Allison SS 2000 weighs 775lbs

RBT
06-13-2013, 06:15 PM
The tuff 21 started life as a challenger 21, superboats have the original molds.
The bottom was revamped, different pad, strakes, notched transom etc. And a totally redesigned deck. Then a second revamp of the deck, that photo is of the first generation deck. The 16 and 28 are totally original designs.
Build quality is exceptional

Greg Guimond
06-13-2013, 06:23 PM
Is the Tuff 16 a pad bottom design and what do you think it weighs in at?

RBT
06-13-2013, 10:08 PM
Is the Tuff 16 a pad bottom design and what do you think it weighs in at?
Yes it is, notched transom as well. The weight is around 500 lbs for a bare hull. It is a pretty cool little boat. So Is the 16 sutphen. I have yet to drive one, but soon I will.

Greg Guimond
06-13-2013, 10:38 PM
Thanks for those details on the Tuff 16. There is zero doubt that the Tuff 21 is the fastest 21 in the world at 102mph with a stock 300XS. Now the Tuff 16 with pad bottom (my pad gained 10mph on my 16 Classic versus the round bottom), a notch to allow for cleaner water earlier to raise the X, and around 500 lbs (each 100lb decrease is worth a 1.5mph gain), along with a modern 2013 CNC bottom design, I'm wondering what it would do with an ETEC 150 H.O. burning 87.

What prop are you running again on the Tuff 16 for 90mph GPS light on fuel?

Greg Guimond
06-13-2013, 10:47 PM
And as a sidebar, I just noticed that the factory 'Rude shot is using Uflex steering :cool!:

smokediver
06-13-2013, 11:42 PM
The site shows 90 hp running 62 ... how does 60 horsepower equal 30 mph ? kinda curious cause I want in !!

RBT
06-14-2013, 05:31 AM
A 150 is way way way too much motor for these boats! It was just an experiment.
It ran a 32 lightning et prop from mother merc.
As for the 30 mph gain over the 90, there is significantly more to it than adding 60 hp. This isn't a stern drive, running the prop shaft above the pad, prop changes that are not avaliable to the smaller motors, enough power to climb up on the pad and break the boat free. And lastly total scarafice of driveability, where the 90 does over 60 that is in a form that is friendly

Greg Guimond
06-14-2013, 07:27 PM
The ETEC 150 H.O. weighs 418lb so I would think that is fine for the 16 Tuff.

BUIZILLA
06-14-2013, 09:18 PM
The ETEC 150 H.O. weighs 418lb so I would think that is fine for the 16 Tuff. add 16-17# for the prop...

RBT
06-15-2013, 08:31 PM
Not so much the weight, it is the power. These are really small boats.

Greg Guimond
07-16-2013, 05:53 AM
It looks good with the 60 EFI Formula Race 4 Stroke outboard

RBT
08-01-2013, 05:21 PM
I don't think that those on this thread realize how small these boats are. That picture does a great job for perspective.
Both the tuff and sutphen are tiny compared to a donzi 16.
btw that black tuff 16 runs 59 mph with a 60 merc.

Greg Guimond
08-04-2013, 09:59 AM
60 MPH with a 60 horsepower 4 stroke motor is very sweet. You are correct on the size differences of the Tuff and Sutphen 16's versus the Donzi 16 Baby. Different boats for different uses for sure.

BUIZILLA
08-04-2013, 10:35 AM
Greg.... where did you find that 16ob RHD pic?

is it real?

Greg Guimond
08-04-2013, 10:43 AM
While it is real, it is a Canadian splash 16 Jim with the twin buckets as you can tell. You see them pop up every now and then. I did think it was a very good visual depiction of the difference in sizes of the two 16' hulls.

mattyboy
08-27-2013, 10:40 AM
2 more 16 headed north

Greg Guimond
08-27-2013, 08:18 PM
They look good. I think that they might use PPI for the interiors on the little guys but I'm not 100% sure. Where are they shipping from?

biggiefl
08-28-2013, 12:33 PM
What do they cost?

mattyboy
05-15-2014, 03:43 PM
another two headed north

nice color schemes

JimG
05-19-2014, 02:36 PM
Love that little boat! Bravo Sutphen!

jl1962
05-19-2014, 05:39 PM
Nice.

I've always liked the little Sutphens.

There has been an orange/black striped 17' O/B in Glenburnie for the last 40 years or so.

Still a cool boat.

Greg Guimond
05-19-2014, 08:53 PM
I believe they are selling a fair amount of the 16's in Canada. Very nice speeds for the lakes with small power.

mattyboy
08-10-2016, 01:34 PM
Interesting, but they are showing it with a 40 hp engine? That doesn’t really promote the “high performance” image.



new numbers on the 16 with a 'rude 90 HO 64 mph

Carl C
08-10-2016, 07:31 PM
Needs a 150 with a jack plate ...

yeller
08-11-2016, 11:02 AM
64mph from 90hp is pretty good. You'd need double that hp to hit 64 in a 16C. Yes.....I know......different hull designs....:lookaroun:

Pat McPherson
08-11-2016, 11:25 AM
I wouldn't think that boat would be rated for more than a 115 or so.
64mph with a 90HP is great! Not sure how she'd handle with big power and don't think it would be necessary to have much more than 115...

Back in the day I had a 15' Hydro-stream with 115 Merc. She ran about 60mph and handled well with that power. That boat was rated for 120HP but I have seen quite a number of them with 150s; not every driven one with big power, but...

Just Say N20
08-11-2016, 11:28 AM
64 with a 90 hp is very impressive for a full interior 16' boat.

mattyboy
08-11-2016, 10:33 PM
64mph from 90hp is pretty good. You'd need double that hp to hit 64 in a 16C. Yes.....I know......different hull designs....:lookaroun:

Double?? I had triple plus a few and I only got to 62 in my 16 this is the trend now entry level boats are back in vogue the bayliner element no frills just a basic all around boat back to an egg beater and red cans ski tube float for 19k or you go for 130k and get a toon with twin 300 rudes that will go 70 and you drive your home around with all of your friends and family

Greg Guimond
08-13-2016, 06:49 AM
64mph from 90hp is pretty good.

Agree, it is good and Richie has sold a bunch of his little 16's.

Now the flip side is put a 10 year old Mercury 225X on the back and see what it would clock with that. The Merc makes about 245hp and weighs the exact same as the ETEC 90.

Greg Guimond
08-13-2016, 07:02 AM
Tuff makes a 16 that is a direct apples to apples to the Sutphen unlike a 16 Donzi. They like to use a 60hp 4 stroke which will push it to 59mph.

2014 TUFF 16 blue and orange. Special build all Carbon fiber. Power lift, GPS Speedo, foot throttle, all options plus hatch. Boat seats 4. Mercury Racing F60 4 stroke engine. 64 MPH top speed. Very fuel efficient. Ministry approved super safe for kids. Demo rides for serious buyers.

Inferno
08-30-2016, 02:17 PM
Great boats .. Had one at 16 with twin racing 135 hp outboards ,then at 21 started racing there new 30. It gave me many victories and championships in Offshore racing. There fast and strong ...

CanadianEhTeam
09-26-2016, 02:32 PM
new numbers on the 16 with a 'rude 90 HO 64 mph

I believe I looked at that exact boat 3 or 4 times earlier this year when I wanted to buy it here in Southern Ontario (actually my first inquiry which went unanswered was fall 2015). The dealer and owner at the time were unresponsive to inquiries (not to mention the lack of response from Sutphen themselves to questions - there is ZERO information available regarding this boat on their website and they were not forthcoming in supplying any). After viewing it multiple times and thinking it over I had a few questions, I sent them off but heard nothing back, followed up, still nothing. After a few weeks I went and crawled all over the thing trying to decide if we should just gamble on buying it with no info but I walked away. I was not sold on the construction of the boat and quality of finishing. Probably for the best. While I was waiting for answers I found a Classic 22.

blacktruck
02-26-2017, 03:35 PM
I believe I looked at that exact boat 3 or 4 times earlier this year when I wanted to buy it here in Southern Ontario (actually my first inquiry which went unanswered was fall 2015). The dealer and owner at the time were unresponsive to inquiries (not to mention the lack of response from Sutphen themselves to questions - there is ZERO information available regarding this boat on their website and they were not forthcoming in supplying any). After viewing it multiple times and thinking it over I had a few questions, I sent them off but heard nothing back, followed up, still nothing. After a few weeks I went and crawled all over the thing trying to decide if we should just gamble on buying it with no info but I walked away. I was not sold on the construction of the boat and quality of finishing. Probably for the best. While I was waiting for answers I found a Classic 22.

I love rehashing old threads! Your post is interesting because I see this all the time with boats, it is an issue with so many builders, it's like they couldn't care less about selling. But, the first thing you hear is, so and so is going out of business - touch market etc. Probably more from poor communication, very common in the boat industry which is so old school. Sutphen and countless others have lost sales because of this, just like your example. The Sutphen 16 is a good little boat, leagues better than anything entry level coming from major manufacturers, not quite Tuff level but great economical boat with a cool design.

Notice how not many boat manufacturers have decent websites? The top fishing brands and ski brands do!

Carl C
02-26-2017, 05:24 PM
I love rehashing old threads! Your post is interesting because I see this all the time with boats, it is an issue with so many builders, it's like they couldn't care less about selling. But, the first thing you hear is, so and so is going out of business - touch market etc. Probably more from poor communication, very common in the boat industry which is so old school. Sutphen and countless others have lost sales because of this, just like your example. The Sutphen 16 is a good little boat, leagues better than anything entry level coming from major manufacturers, not quite Tuff level but great economical boat with a cool design.

Notice how not many boat manufacturers have decent websites? The top fishing brands and ski brands do!

Yep. Pretty lame and outdated website. Don't they know how important that is? http://www.sutphenboats.com/

chip w
03-06-2017, 03:51 PM
Try Sutphen Power Boats instead.

http://www.sutphenpowerboats.com/

Carl C
03-06-2017, 04:56 PM
Yep. Pretty lame and outdated website. Don't they know how important that is? http://www.sutphenboats.com/


Try Sutphen Power Boats instead.

http://www.sutphenpowerboats.com/

That's weird. Will the real Sutphen please stand up ...

chip w
03-07-2017, 01:01 PM
That's weird. Will the real Sutphen please stand up ...

I thought so too.

CHACHI
03-07-2017, 01:35 PM
I think that Sutphen powerboats is the Senior Rick and he is/was building offshore stuff in Cape Coral Florida.

The 16 is built by his son in New Jersey(?).

Two different companies.

Ken

chip w
03-07-2017, 04:46 PM
That would explain it. Jr. should get his site up and running. It definitely wouldn't hurt his business.

CanadianEhTeam
03-14-2017, 12:56 PM
Yes I was very frustrated by their complete lack of response. In the end I'm very happy with my decision to pass. We went and looked it over 3 times and a few pairs of eyes to try to get a feel for it (since info wasn't forthcoming). That particular blue one during the time I looked at it had cracks on the transom to motor well cap area, missing trim pieces, failed seat stays (they were just adhesive, but the goop was all over it), gel coat marring from the rigging hose (from a few shake down runs only), and what really killed it for me, the area's where I could poke my head down into hidden spots were in my uneducated opinion very poor. The back of the dashboard looked and felt like unfinished, raw plywood. Not marine ply (I'm basing this on the fact that it looked rough and I understand marine ply to be sanded both sides). In any event it wasn't sealed, or at least didnt look/feel sealed on the backside.

It's a fun looking boat, but I got the impression that they didn't build it to last, which is ashamed, because for the size, I believe they are asking a relatively high price point (in Canada Port Sandfield wants 35k for a 90hp version with trailer)

Here she is when I saw her. This was before they de-rigged the motor and put on the graphite motor (the white motor sold as a boat show promo I was told).

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