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View Full Version : ANyone know this Minx?



XMETAL
03-24-2013, 09:24 PM
I just bought this boat no engine or drive. I plan on doing a deck off rebuild and toying with the idea of big block power as I have a 454 at the marina thats taking up space. So Im looking for any info I can get. Thanks.75105

Greg Guimond
03-24-2013, 10:53 PM
Good luck with the restoration. Did the boat live in Ohio when you got it? Might help tracking down details. When you're done you'll want to do what this guy is doing with his! Looks like he is having a darn good time ;)

mattyboy
03-25-2013, 05:58 AM
Do you have a HIN on the transom

Pismo
03-25-2013, 07:43 AM
Perect boat for a 500+hp small block. Maybe a nice aluminum LS...

VetteLT193
03-25-2013, 08:26 AM
There have been a few with Big Blocks but not much info on how they ran. Seems like the guys that have done them aren't online guys. There is plenty of room for a BBC from a height perspective. It might have to go through the hole sideways and spun around. I had an option to go Big Block when I had mine but opted not to because I would have had to mess around with filling the exhaust holes or getting custom tails made as the BBC exhaust is wider than the SBC.

katanna
03-25-2013, 08:35 AM
The balance would be alot better with the small block. You wont like the way it porposes at cruising speed with the big block.

gcarter
03-25-2013, 08:35 AM
A BBC in a minx is not the happiest of combinations.
A healthy LS is a much better package.

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 08:38 AM
Thanks everyone. I bought it from northern Maine. When I noticed it had OH tags I figured Id ask in case someone here recognized it.
I have made up my mind and it WILL get a BBC and an Arneson.

VetteLT193
03-25-2013, 08:43 AM
Who has specifics on how the BBC runs? I wonder if the X should be raised for it too.

BBC and Arneson should be really interesting to see.

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 08:45 AM
I must add that the method to my madness is simply because a big block will sustain bigger power and a LOT more torque than a small block. I cant justify a small block with high horsepower and not much reliability. IT comes down to the fact that there are big lakes by me and short of buying a bigger boat (which after buying a new house isnt a good idea) I decided to go with the Minx after riding in my friends I was impressed with the ride just not the speed. (yes I know Im probably looking at at least 20k to get what I want and I wont make that back which is fine) My goal is 80 mph or close to it reliably. Any suggestions are appreciated. I dont have the Hull ID on me but will get it up later tonight.

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 09:02 AM
I figured since Im replacing the stringers, gas tank and transom. Im basically starting with a blank hull, it might as well be able to perform as good as it looks! I know its going to cost big money which Im fine with. MY goal is as close to 80 mph as possible.

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 09:04 AM
A BBC in a minx is not the happiest of combinations.
A healthy LS is a much better package.
George are you speaking from a previous experience with a Minx?

BUIZILLA
03-25-2013, 09:08 AM
pretty sure this is the '87 Limited that was basically neglected on a lake outside Toledo a few years back,,,, I think it sat at a dock, full of water, like over the stringers water, for a longgggggg time.. it will need to be taken COMPLETELY apart and redone for sure, every square inch of it...

I think Ken is selling the Arneson out of his 22 on ebay right now....

there was a small block Minx/Arneson rig running around lately, but NEVER a BBC Arny has been done that I ever knew of

Dalelama has a BBC/Bravo Minx down here, and it ran pretty good, don't remember it ever having a porpoise issue, you would have to ask him, that's the only BBC setup that I know of

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 09:22 AM
pretty sure this is the '87 Limited that was basically neglected on a lake outside Toledo a few years back,,,, I think it sat at a dock, full of water, like over the stringers water, for a longgggggg time.. it will need to be taken COMPLETELY apart and redone for sure, every square inch of it...

I think Ken is selling the Arneson out of his 22 on ebay right now....

there was a small block Minx/Arneson rig running around lately, but NEVER a BBC Arny has been done that I ever knew of

Dalelama has a BBC/Bravo Minx down here, and it ran pretty good, don't remember it ever having a porpoise issue, you would have to ask him, that's the only BBC setup that I know of
Unfortunately this one is labeled as an '86 BUT I haven't really gotten into to go through. I have a friend from the marina I work at go pick it up for me since I haven't been able to get away in quite some time. Of course its coming completely apart as stated above. Do these boats also have the gas tank issues Ive heard others speak of? It only makes sense if Im going in I do it ALL.

gcarter
03-25-2013, 10:13 AM
ALL older Donzi's have, or will have, the dreaded tank issues because Donzi didn't seal, or coat, the tanks, nor did they seal the drain pipe running under the tank.
I saw one price list from that time frame that listed a BBC. I've seen Dalelama's boat. I suppose it tops 70. Mine, w/a fairly stock 350 Vortec would do 65 most any day. My biggest argument against a BBC, is it's a tight engine compartment, fully 6" shorter than 22C, and the weight difference.
It's your boat, you can do what you want, it's your money. But it wasn't designed to have a BBC in the back end like a Cig 20 was. There are NO similarities between a Cig 20 and a Minx, other the length and beam. I don't think you'll find ANY 80 MPH Minx's in existence. I believe if it were a viable combination, there'd be tons of them.
I think a 454 LSX w/an Arne would be a killer combination and a very potent package.

VetteLT193
03-25-2013, 10:44 AM
I disagree with the speed thing. There is no reason why the Minx can't run fast. There is nothing about the hull that would net the 22 a major advantage over it in the under 85MPH category.

The reason why we don't see tons running 80+ is because they built very few of them. They came from the factory with a SBC and it takes big power to run fast. LSX is new to the marine world and $$$$. The BBC conversion is also $$$ (new exhaust, probably new drive, new transom cutouts for the exhaust or custom exhaust, new raw water pump) even the basics add up fast. I looked at doing it and it ends up costing quite a bit and I had a smokin' deal on a 500hp BBC with free Gil offshores. It's a whole lot easier/cheaper to add power to a 22 that already has a BBC installed which is why so many people do it.

As far as the cig 20 vs Minx... they are both 24 degree deadrise hulls with the same lineage. The Minx is roughly a foot longer. They both ride strikingly similar. While I haven't seen two right next to each other they look pretty similar on paper anyway.

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 11:04 AM
Dmr20045a686

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 11:13 AM
I see thats why I come to this site for input. That just changed everything I was going to do and Im sure thatll save a ton also. Has anyone ever supercharged a small block in one of these? Ive always heard about about Alphas cant really deal with a lot of power. Would the SS lower with a billet carrier do much for this? Instead of going with a Bravo or Arneson. My goal now is if Im going with a SBC Id want to keep the weight down as much as possible.

VetteLT193
03-25-2013, 11:45 AM
I did a longer post (moderator approval).

I don't see why the Minx wouldn't work well with a BBC. There isn't many out there because they didn't build many Minxes to start off with and it's expensive to do the swap if you already have a working small block. In this instance... that isn't the case. I'm thinking dollar for dollar in this situation the BBC would be cheaper and if I were in this situation it would be the route I'd go.

BUIZILLA
03-25-2013, 11:51 AM
Ive always heard about about Alphas cant really deal with a lot of power. Would the SS lower with a billet carrier do much for this? Instead of going with a Bravo or Arneson. My goal now is if Im going with a SBC Id want to keep the weight down as much as possible. billet carrier? who makes that?
I built a HD gearset SS for my Minx, and as was stated before it made ZERO mph difference in a Minx hull, i'm not the only guinea that did this either LOL, take that info for what it's worth, don't waste your time with that idea... I know Ken had an SS on his 22 but I can't remember what the performance number gain, if any, was... I *DO* know that a raised X Alpha on a 22 sports some impressive numbers though...

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 12:05 PM
Its a Bobs machine carrier. I normally ran outboards (Allison XR2001 and a Mirage River Racer). I know that when you when from say a stock case to a CLE or Sportmaster the guts were stronger. Sorry I should've been more clear on what I meant. I dont want to put 550 to 650 hp behind a stock Alpha. Thats why I mentioned going to a bravo possibly.

mattyboy
03-25-2013, 02:02 PM
for the record the difference in the 20 and the minx is 2 inches and about 800lbs

the minx is 2 inches longer, 2 inches narrower and 800 lbs lighter

the bottoms are configured differently too. the minx rides nice the 20 rides really nice

gcarter
03-25-2013, 02:32 PM
Having done bottom work on both a 22C and a Minx (bottom repair and smoothing, straightening), even though the beam, keel, and deadrise are similar, the flat running surface on the 22C is about twice as long as a Minx. This is critical for speed, the longer boat will be more easily driven.
In the case of a Cig 20, it was designed to carry the weight of a BBC, and a Bravo or other heavier, larger drives and has much larger engine compartment. Let me explain, the widest part of its hull is at the transom. And even though the beam of both boats (Cig 20, or Donzi Classic) is virtually identical, the beam at the chine of the Cig 20 is wider than a Donzi, allowing it displace more weight in the stern (heavier engines). The Cig 20's hull lends itself to hull lengthening with 3' long tabs and to (it seems) more easily attain 80+ MPH speeds than a Donzi.
I'd like to see a fast Minx, I hope someone builds one someday and is successful.
There was a supercharged SBC powered Minx in Alabama or Georgia about 7 or 8 years ago for sale. The owner stated it would exceed 70 MPH, but not by how much.

gcarter
03-25-2013, 02:35 PM
I left a nice post, but I got the the "It is being moderated screen".

mattyboy
03-25-2013, 02:41 PM
George I type a small post like "please stand by" and then post it to see if it posts up , then I go back and edit it to the post I want I have not had the moderation come in on an edit note I only do this on a post that will be lengthy

BUIZILLA
03-25-2013, 10:00 PM
Dmr20045a686hull #45 was not black/white....

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 10:19 PM
OK what color was it

BUIZILLA
03-25-2013, 10:29 PM
red/honey

XMETAL
03-25-2013, 10:48 PM
SO youre saying red hull, honey stripe?

mattyboy
03-26-2013, 07:07 AM
honey blonde bottom
red hull sides
honey blonde deck
red stripe

very popular color scheme during that era.

mattyboy
03-26-2013, 07:24 AM
honey blonde bottom and deck
red hull sides and deck stripe

XMETAL
03-26-2013, 09:41 AM
honey blonde bottom and deck
red hull sides and deck stripe

How does one go about getting those color codes?

mattyboy
03-26-2013, 12:44 PM
How does one go about getting those color codes?


this thread might help



http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?67969-gelcoat

XMETAL
03-26-2013, 05:20 PM
Thanks Matt.

Just Say N20
03-26-2013, 09:32 PM
Just thinking out loud. It has been my experience that the 16 Ski-Sporter, with the same power/drivetrain, is the slowest in the group of Ski-Sporter, Classic 18, and Minx. I also believe that the Minx with a Mercruiser 260/Alpha is slightly faster than the Pre-OMC Classic 18’s with the same power. The OMC and later Classics 18’s had a higher X-dimension made possible in part to the raised engine hatch, and these were slightly faster than a comparably power Minx. Volvo powered Classic 16s & 18s were slower, but very stout.

I say all that because there have been several 16’s in the past 10 years that have broken the 80 mph barrier. Most had Alpha w/SS lowers and between 420 and 508 hp to accomplish this task. Younger I believe had a 16 with around 400 hp and a Blackhawk drive that would appear to have been mounted a little too deep, which created some interesting handling, but he was in the mid-80s.

If these speeds can be achieved with a 16, I believe the same power/drive combination on a Minx would also push it to around 80. Is the Alpha and SS lower a “robust” drive? Not really, but when operated with finesse, they have shown that they can last. Drag racing, and un-throttled wave bashing will allow the drive to quickly demonstrate it’s weakness.

When GEOO has his 1000+ hp/Arneson Classic 18 that ran over 120, I understand it took him a while to tune the Arneson (adding a hydrofoil to the bottom of the skeg) so it would produce enough lift to allow the boat to run freely. It was also direct drive, as there was no room inside the boat for a transmission.

There was also a guy on the site who took the plunge (and also took a lot of abuse about it) and bought an Alpha lower unit that was significantly shortened. If I remember correctly, he picked up some substantial top speed and suffered no ill effects.

I think a good MARINE engine builder (who understands they are building an engine to produce maximum torque, and max hp below 5,500 rpms) should be able to put together a durable SBC in the 425 - 450 hp range. The Mercruiser Scorpion engines were rated at 377 hp at the prop, so they were probably in that hp range.

Decent HP, and getting the outdrive raised as much as practically possible, should produce an 80-ish boat.

SBC blower motors, and Bravo drives will get you into the mid-to-upper 80s.

Wow! What a rambling post. Sorry.

XMETAL
03-26-2013, 09:57 PM
Bill, I appreciate the contribution. I was always an outboard tunnel guy, so this is a first for me. At this point time will tell. Im starting off with just putting in a 260 hp engine and an Alpha just to run this year to get a basis. The Skater is too much boat to have to trailer and launch and run alone when the wife doesnt want to come out. Of course this deal came up exactly 3 days before buying a house so I have to hold back on the new engine and drive at least for a couple months. Then itll be original paint and big power for next season.

biggie
03-28-2013, 01:06 AM
Perect boat for a 500+hp small block. Maybe a nice aluminum LS...

I have the same ride, also re powering. What sb could I build that would make 500hp?

duckhunter
03-28-2013, 09:38 AM
I have the same ride, also re powering. What sb could I build that would make 500hp?

A couple of folks in this thread have mentioned a big-inch LSX, which would be my pick as well. Especially for big power from a small block. Factory 6 bolt mains, cathedral port heads, great oiling, etc. It has a lot going for it up to the 550-600hp range, at which point it is probably preferable to go to a huge-inch BBC from a cost and longevity perspective.

Downside is that you would be on the cutting edge of DIYers putting that power in a boat. Volvo has jumped in with both feet, replacing their big block line with LS small blocks and they seem to be having a lot of success. Not so much with Mercruiser applications though. In the aftermarket, Ilmor and Mast Motorsports are building them in 570 & 600hp flavors, MSRP is over $25k, not sure about street price.

If I were going to do it, I'd do a ton of research and build a boneyard iron block 6.0 out of a Chevy truck. I think a reliable 475-500hp marine small block is definitely in the realm of possible on a realistic budget ($10k). Sourcing everything to hook it up to a Bravo would be expensive but it seems to be getting more mainstream every day. My impression is that the parts aren't made out of unobtanium anymore, just not as common as they will be in five years.

I really like the LSX concept in a smaller boat. They can turn relatively high RPM for a long time compared to a gen 1 SBC. Shades of Mighty Mouse with the right drive...

VetteLT193
03-28-2013, 09:41 AM
I'd think that if you are planning on a new drive, engine, etc. it might be economical to go for the new Volvo 380. It's a small block plus the twin prop would be nice for the single engine setup.

Probably make a Minx fun as heck.

BUIZILLA
03-28-2013, 10:00 AM
I'd think that if you are planning on a new drive, engine, etc. it might be economical to go for the new Volvo 380. It's a small block plus the twin prop would be nice for the single engine setup.

Probably make a Minx fun as heck. makes perfect sense to me... :)

duckhunter
03-28-2013, 10:45 AM
I'd think that if you are planning on a new drive, engine, etc. it might be economical to go for the new Volvo 380. It's a small block plus the twin prop would be nice for the single engine setup.

Probably make a Minx fun as heck.

Dead sexy.

75171

mattyboy
03-28-2013, 11:03 AM
the VP V8-380 is an interesting pkg wonder what the final price tag would be the 8.1 DP pkg retails for around 25k.

the Ilmor 570 indy pkg might be worth a look

http://www.ilmor.com/en/marine/performance/MV8-570.aspx

SanDogDewey
03-28-2013, 11:18 AM
I'd think that if you are planning on a new drive, engine, etc. it might be economical to go for the new Volvo 380. It's a small block plus the twin prop would be nice for the single engine setup.

Probably make a Minx fun as heck.

Volvo states the weight of the engine, transom shield and drive at 488 lbs. How does that compare to an original SBF with AQ 270. What is the difference in weight between a SX and DP, if any?

VetteLT193
03-28-2013, 12:00 PM
Volvo states the weight of the engine, transom shield and drive at 488 lbs. How does that compare to an original SBF with AQ 270. What is the difference in weight between a SX and DP, if any?

I just poked around on google and found 575 pounds for a 351C. The Windsor is 525. No idea what a 270 weighs so add that in if you know it.

If that 488 number is correct for everything it is darn impressive.

mattyboy
03-28-2013, 12:03 PM
Patrick not sure we're you get those numbers. There was a thread back a bit I posted the two new pkgs the Volvo and the ilmor. Search for it there is a post on the weight. If I remember correctly a fully dressed aq 225 sb was 150lbs lighter than the new 380 fully dressed

A SBF weighs like 500 lbs by itself

VetteLT193
03-28-2013, 12:13 PM
Poked around some more...

the Volvo 380 is in fact 488........... kg. that makes 1076 pounds which makes a whole lot more sense :boat:

mattyboy
03-28-2013, 12:30 PM
Yes and a 5.0l aq225 with a 270 sp was 925lbs

gcarter
03-28-2013, 12:54 PM
FWIW, a 454 LSX seems to have a street price of $10-$12K, plus accessories, fuel (intake,carb, etc.), cooling system, and manifolds.
I have about $14K in my engine, which includes cam, carb, intake manifold, distributor, circ pump, etc.
Everything except exhaust manifolds would be similarly priced for the LSX.
If I were starting over, and had a $15K budget, I believe the LSX would be my choice.

mattyboy
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
here's the thread about the 380 and 570

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?68066-two-new-engine-packages-very-interesting&highlight=

wonder what the weight of the ilmor 570 is fully dressed? they say the motor with fluids is 830lbs

duckhunter
03-28-2013, 02:05 PM
FWIW, a 454 LSX seems to have a street price of $10-$12K, plus accessories, fuel (intake,carb, etc.), cooling system, and manifolds.
I have about $14K in my engine, which includes cam, carb, intake manifold distributor, circ pump, etc.
Everything except exhaust manifolds would be similarly priced for the LSX.
If I were starting over, and had a $15K budget, I believe the LSX would be my choice.

Agreed. I would argue that a used 6.0 truck motor could be refreshed and marinized for less than $10k all-in. Ballpark 475+hp, coil on/near plug w/ controller, steel head gaskets, carb setup, marine cam, cooling, etc. Not positive but I think Bob Madera is doing LS cams now.

Not sure what the aftermarket bellhousing & exhaust are going for; those would appear to be the wild cards until these things become more prolific for marine applications.

I suspect that within a decade the Gen 1/2 SBC will have gone the way of the dinosaur and even BBCs will be getting scarce. Shoot, the car guys are making 1000hp junkyard 5.3 twin turbo setups using the stock 100k mile bottom end. The aftermarket is fully vested in the LSX on the automotive side and it looks like the marine side has more than the proverbial toe in the water as well.

If anyone has one of those Ilmor 570s they need to T&E I'm their guy!!

mattyboy
03-28-2013, 02:40 PM
indy drive and trans weigh 426lbs so the mv8 570 fully dressed weighs 1256lbs

SanDogDewey
03-28-2013, 04:21 PM
Patrick not sure we're you get those numbers. There was a thread back a bit I posted the two new pkgs the Volvo and the ilmor. Search for it there is a post on the weight. If I remember correctly a fully dressed aq 225 sb was 150lbs lighter than the new 380 fully dressed

A SBF weighs like 500 lbs by itself

Got my kilograms and pounds mixed up! Looks like the package weighs 1076 lbs. Don't they know that the metric system never did take off? lol

75172

Pat McPherson
03-28-2013, 05:27 PM
A fuel injected 380HP small block would be a great package for any of these smaller Donzis.

Just Say N20
03-28-2013, 07:10 PM
All this SBC HP talk is getting me anxious to see what 430 hp and 490 ft lbs is going to do in my Ski-Sporter! :propeller:

I would think (no research done) the overall length of the Ilmor might be an issue.

duckhunter
03-28-2013, 09:32 PM
I would think (no research done) the overall length of the Ilmor might be an issue.

Nothing a sawzall, a twelve pack, and some tiddlywink spirit can't overcome. :wink:

osur866
03-29-2013, 03:27 AM
All this SBC HP talk is getting me anxious to see what 430 hp and 490 ft lbs is going to do in my Ski-Sporter! :propeller:

I would think (no research done) the overall length of the Ilmor might be an issue.
Bill your boats gonna fly and prolly be faster than you care to go :)

it's not only the length but height that will cause you issues in the 18 or 16, I looked pretty hard into an ilmor before I Whippled my motor and there just wasn't enough height to shoe horn it in there. If you recall Teds 22 Ilmor boat I believe the oil pan was like an inch off the bottom of the hull, I'm aware he built up the hull there but my point is it was still tight in a 22. Now the LSX could be shoe horned in the 18, would love to see someone take on the project.

gcarter
03-29-2013, 08:44 AM
Someone was kind enough to send me some dimensioned Ilmore drawings.
It's deeper, and longer than a BBC.
It's 37.68" long from the rear mounting bolts, and 12.75 from the bottom of the pan to the crank CL.
Distance across the headers is 33".
I can't imagine it fitting into something smaller than a 22C.

mattyboy
03-29-2013, 08:49 AM
George

are the gunwales higher on the minx over the 16 and 18? or is it just the raised deck?

gcarter
03-29-2013, 12:26 PM
Matty, the gunwale height is the same as the foredeck. The raised hatch area is the same width as the windshield.

mattyboy
03-29-2013, 02:22 PM
George,

I guess the question was really are the gunwales the same height on the Minx as they are on the 16 and 18?

the reason I ask is every time the Ilmor is mentioned in a smaller classic depth of the motor is mentioned . I realize the last time we discussed this was the pipe dream Silverghost had about having Donzi build an ilmor v10 18. During that discussion it was mentioned that only the 22 was deep enough for the v10 ..that got me to thinking the ground floor on a 7 foot beam 24 degree rounded keel deep v is always in the same spot the only way to get depth was to make the walls and ceiling higher.

I thought being the Minx is bigger that the v8 BB ilmor might fit as they did make a few 18's with the trs and a BB shoe horned in.

So I guess I will be measuring the gunwales at the dustoff

VetteLT193
03-29-2013, 02:30 PM
The Minx has taller gunwales. Where the regular classics have the curve in the deck resulting in the low gunwales the Minx is flat in the back (resulting in the side air vents on the raised part) plus the raised area in the bow. Plus I think the center is taller too, meaning, if you measured to a relative fixed point it would be taller. The fixed point I have in mind is the engine hatch latch. My guess is 3 inches taller. Total guesstimate though so take it FWIW.

gcarter
03-29-2013, 06:56 PM
Here's a couple of pictures of my old Minx. As a 20' boat, it may have had the same height gunwales as a 22C, or a little higher than an 18...maybe 2"-3" higher?????
But of course I never measured it. As I said previously, the engine compartment is about 6" shorter than a 22C, and that would really be the limiting factor.
FWIW, the Minx hatch is about the same length as an 18 hatch and the engine needs to be removed sideways.


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6305&d=1095543915



http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6306&d=1095543915

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8292&d=1102895100

XMETAL
02-06-2014, 12:00 PM
Well after a one year hiatus of having a heart attack and the boat NEVER getting picked up. Fiannly Ill be going to get it in 2 weeks. Best part I guess is that Im getting it for much less than I was going to pay originally. SO the boat will finally be getting done! It will be small block powered for sure possibly a Volvo package but thats still up in the air. I wanted to get opinions on painting it Baby Blue... Any thoughts on that?