Pop-up cleats, any opinions?

[83 Classic 6.2MX]

Hi-
I had my ’83 18 Classic repainted over the winter and surprise, surprise, the project scope has increased ‘just a little’ to include a new engine hatch, re-chrome of all deck hardware, new tab actuators and new ‘pretty much everything else that comes in contact with the fresh paint’ right down to the trailer rollers.

So I am thinking about adding a pair of aft deck cleats similar to the ones I see on later model 18 Classics. I haven’t had any trouble tying the boat off using the lifting rings but the 3rd tie point will come in handy for a number of situations but most often to secure a fender/bumper instead of tying it to the grab rail.

I‘m leaning toward the 4 ½ “ Hardin Marine pull-up type since one of my previous boats (02 Cig) had the same ones. I’m sure there opinions about sticking to the factory over deck mounted type but frankly, I prefer fewer obstructions and smoother lines not to mention the extra snag point you end up with the factory style. Any thoughts, experience or opinions about best type and/or mounting locations on an 18 Classic?

The guy did an incredible job with the paint and the boat looks unbelievable! Can’t wait for the warm weather so I can start putting on all the fresh hardware and finishing touches!

Will post some pic.s shortly and as always, your input is greatly appreciated!
-Paul

[wwahl]

Send pictures. I am interested in what you are doing.

[Ghost]

Paul, ditto that, sounds great and I'd love to see some pics. I'm totally with you on the convenience of the cleats, btw.

(Quick aside, my guess is the smaller cleats will be what you want for the 18, but on the off chance you decided to go with 6", feel free to shoot me a pm as I have 4, new in box, for sale cheap. I was going to put them on my old Cig but opted for the traditional style when I saw them dry-fitted, so it's eBay time. :) )

Regards,

Mike

[duckhunter]

The cleanest way I have seen to incorporate fender hangers is with the little pull-up mushroom cleats or the removable pin style fender cleat. They can be found at various marine retailers. Makes for a very clean, low-profile install. The pin ones are cool because you can have your fenders pre-tied on the pins and just plug them in for docking or rafting up. I guess you could do the same with the mushrooms by tying a loop in your fender line. Spendy at $29 and $59 each respectively, but less than good pop-up cleats and a lot easier to install. It's like jewelry for your freshly painted boat!

74930
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-16382-spring-loaded-stainless-steel-mushroom-cleat.aspx


74931
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-25622-stainless-steel-heavy-duty-quick-release-pin-style-fender-cleats.aspx

[SanDogDewey]

I just tie the fenders to the guide rail posts. Keeps it simple. Of course, it helps if you can tie a knot.;)

[f_inscreenname]

I even have a couple of them for sale on Resurrection Marine.com but I would think long and hard before doing it because once done its hard to go back. After 5 years of having them during the last make over I took them out and opted for just the center cleat.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3544/18266047.jpg

[biggiefl]

74936I don't understand the negativity towards pop-ups but I will put in my $.02. I have the OEM cleats on my 22 and I hate them. 1) they are ugly 2) they snag stuff including the cover 3) they are ugly so I am replacing them with Accon 6" cleats that lay flat. You push a button and they pop up and lock. These are great because you do not have to take a saw to your hull, they mount like traditional cleats(2 small holes) but lay flat. I am putting 4.5" as midships as well. These will also serve duty as clips for my bimini when I use it. Not cheap but you can find them on E-Bay for a better price if patient.

[VetteLT193]

I like the flat pop ups. If you place them in good spots (2 stern on each side of the hatch and 2 just in front of where you sit) you can use them to tie down and anchor shade too.

The pins posted above for fenders are cool and "Top Knot" will sew fender lines onto the pins for you if you want custom lines to complete the look.

After having pop ups I have no idea why anyone wouldn't love them. They are flush and look better, 100% functional, and are out of the way when you don't need them.

If you really want to modernize the whole look... pop up lifting eye: http://shop.acconmarine.com/products/15-round-lifting-eye.aspx

[MOP]

One of the best additions I made to my 22, I went for pop up rather than pull up due to a little less fumbling. I put two aft and two arms length ahead of the windshield, all can be reached with ease and are in good spots for fenders. The lifting eye route sucked, had to have lines dangling most of the time.

[Ed Donnelly]

My Criterion came with popups.
The only way to go IMHO ...Ed

[biggiefl]

I have a 6" pullup if anyone is interested. Bought it for my baja years ago as they did not have a bow cleat. The pullups (I think)don't let water into your hull like the pop-ups which you need to make drain tubes, nor do the lay flats obviously.

[83 Classic 6.2MX]

Guys,
Thanks for all the input! I s0pke to a good buddy of mine (Mr.Magoo on here) and he informed me that the ones on my old Cig were Accon.
I have had this boat for a handful of years now and have always been able to tie-off pretty easily from the lifting eye's but never liked tying the bumpers to the hand rails or hardpoints. The lake waves where I am can get big enugh that I don't like the idea of the bumper ropes yanking on the rail mounts. On top of that it would be nice to have one farther aft than the rail presently goes on my boat. The boat will be lift kept while not in use so not that big a deal but I'm just thinking the cleat will add to the ease of /rafting uptying off at others' docks etc.

Thinking I will make the decision once I'm putting the hardware back on the boat since the installation looks rather straight forward.

As I said, I'll post some pic.s once I'm able to get at the project.

BTW, I am working on another rare accessory for the boat that came from the factory (I believe) which is a deck mounted retractable docking light. No identifying marks on it but in it's day it was a pretty cool unit. DC gear reduction motor with a curved rack/spur gear drive to raise and lower the unit with a single 55 watt 4" round sealed beam inside. Mounts just behind the bow nav light. Anyone seen one before?

Unfortunately it met its demise when someone left it on in the retracted position and the custom molded plastic housing got toasted. I tried to find a replacement unit for years but no luck.... So I am in the process of remaking the whole unit. The below deck housing will be fiberglass replication of the original and I am working on reverse engineering the rest of the molded parts which i'll machine from cast plastic. Planning to use an ultra-brite LED light for it so the new one doesn't have a similar fate to the original! Fun project but one of those 'labor of love' type things for sure!

Thanks again!

Paul

Here is cheesy a phone pic i just got of the newely installed and painted hatch. Can't wait to install the lift springs!
74947

[Ghost]

FWIW, if there is a style concern, I wouldn't sweat traditional cleats. Boats have hardware on them, and classics look great with traditional cleats as well as with the modern popup/pullup kind. You can't lose on that one.

The combination lifting ring/cleats work fine as cleats, but pure lifting rings (with no horns) are WAY inconvenient and far less functional than cleats. I wouldn't settle for using those.

The snag point thing with traditional cleats doesn't strike me as a big deal at all. It's a good thought and I totally get the concept, but have never seen it be a problem for anyone in real life. (Though you may be a little more likely to kick a traditional cleat.)

The dedicated fender hangers are very cool. I'm a big fan of the idea, though I opted not to go that route because they can be a slight PITA when you have to reconfigure your fenders for an unusual docking area. (For flexibility, I like the Taylor Mades with just a hole through the middle rather than eyes on the ends.) One solution for flexibility is to use dedicated fender mounts with a small loop attaching to the pin. You can pass that through itself onto another loop in the main fender line, or onto the fender's eye, depending on the style of fender you have. Then you can always get the dedicated pin off the fender very quickly if you want to use the fenders some other way, without untying everything and without losing your home setup.

The other really nice thing about the dedicated hangers is they keep the cleats free of fender lines. Makes coming and going simpler, especially for your guests if they help. And it gives you extra room on your cleats, which can be huge when you raft up. A 4.5 inch cleat gets really small really fast when it has two lines plus a fender on it. Plus a lot of people buy dock lines that are WAY too big (3/8" is more than enough for any Donzi Classic), so there's often even less room than there should be on the cleats.

One last thing, the dedicated fender mounts allow you to put the fenders where you want, which may be different from where you want your cleats. The most common of these is when your cleat is so far aft that a fender can swing around the corner from the side of the boat to the transom, leaving it with no protection.

The flip side on that is Classics like yours, there's so little freeboard back there that in my experience the stern fender does better when horizontal. And the dedicated hangers/pins don't work so well in that setup since you'd need two of them with two pins per fender, a total PITA.

If I had a Classic, I'd consider popup/pullup midship cleats, just forward of the corners of the windshield. They might keep you from even needing the bow lifting ring. And IF you had a combination lifting ring/cleat up there, a dock line secured to the midship cleat could easily be tossed over and snagged on the big bow cleat if needed. Like having a bow cleat without having to climb up on the bow to fool with lines.

Bottom line, and the reason for all of that rambling: there can be a lot of subtleties to setting up up in a way you won't hate over the long haul. So before drilling holes, go out with some lines and fenders and play around a good bit, thinking about all situations you can. Have a few beers in the process. :)

[Jraysray]

I'll drop some pics soon. Bow/stern and next to the two front seats. I also plan to install a pop up nav light. I'm such a rebel...

[biggiefl]

The only problem I see with the pop-up bow light is you have to walk all the way to the bow, at night, to pop it up. Might not be such a great idea.

[Bobby D]

Pictures are not the best but you will get an idea of what pop ups look like installed.
I like and use mine often and am considering adding (2) more forward similar to what MOP described for his 22. The center lifting eye is on bypass and not connected to the original factory installed bracket that was bolted to the transom. When the restoration was done and the transom was beefed up the center bracket was deleted and pop up cleats were installed. I do have a ¼ inch backing plated installed to the lifting eye but don’t use it.

[MOP]

The mistake I made when I installed the aft cleats was putting them to close to the stern, I now have to secure my fenders in way to stop them from slipping around to the transom leaving the hull side unprotected.

Phil

[Ghost]

Had some more ideas yesterday and put in a post that said it went to moderator approval. Hopefully it wasn't lost in the ether, but the short version was WHATEVER you do, spend some real time pondering scenarios of docking at home and elsewhere, rafting up, etc. For reasons like the one MOP just posted. A bunch of thinking and planning can keep you from living with something you don't like and/or making swiss cheese out of the deck during multiple iterations.

[mike o]

Hey Ghost, At least your avatar meets moderator approval........:kingme:

I knew it was just a matter of time before I slipped and jammed a toe in the OEM cleats.:party:
So I went with pop ups :lifeprese:.........:wavey:

[Ghost]

LOL, I believe my post from yesterday actually mentions the ol' cleat kick... :)

[Ghost]

Mike, looks like your pm box is full. RE:
Permission to go to the bathroom......:jestera:

:), indeed!

Knowing Scot for the no-BS kind of guy he is, I'm thinking he's WAY more annoyed with the inadvertent moderation "feature" than we are. I'm just picturing him sitting down to his email and finding all the messages pending his approval. Aside from how it wastes his time, it makes me laugh thinking about him rolling his eyes and thinking "oh, WTF is it sending me NOW :)

[mike o]

Your a "Gold" member :yes:

I thought you had diplomatic immunity ;)

[Jraysray]

The only problem I see with the pop-up bow light is you have to walk all the way to the bow, at night, to pop it up. Might not be such a great idea.

I run lights well before dark and its an 18. Not walking the plank here. I like the look of the flat deck and I tie to the bow cleat when at anchor, the nav light gets in the way.

[biggiefl]

2 of my friends run them....fine in a small boat. I am not crawling on my knees down the deck to pop it up becuase it looks sweet. I rarely run at night due to hitting a piling in my Montauk and almost crushing my sternum....my bad. I like the fact I can just hit the switch. To each their own obviously. What makes the world go round. :rlol:

[mattyboy]

I like the accon folding cleat

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I like the accon folding cleat

+1
I like them better than the Accon pop up cleats that require cutting the deck. The pop up cleats also allow water to drip through them. The only thing better about the pop up cleats is that their profile is lower and unsuspecting people get shocked when their curious minds push the little button - lol. Bill

[CHACHI]

I am running 4-6" pull up cleats on my 22. Two in the stock aft location and two up by the windshield.

I have had them for 4 years and I like them.

Ken

[83 Classic 6.2MX]

Hey Guys,

Sorry for the lapse in time. Bad ankle injury a week ago has had me out of comission and will no doubt delay my ability to get back on the project (was hoping to get it from the paint shop in a week or two). Hang in there for the pic.s though, I will post some soon.

Thanks for the added feedback. I too am cautions with such decisions, hence the post looking for feedback. Lots of good advice and really appreciate the pic.s. If/when i add them, flush they will be as I just prefer the minimally interrupted flush deck appearance. Too far aft has also been a concern and I had some hunch that was the reason for the positioning of the factory ones on later models.

A clarification on the deck light project is that this was a factory supplied (I believe) cockpit powered retractable docking light. Pretty cool piece that raises via an electric motor and has a 55W sealed beam forward facing docking or perhaps even considered a search light. From what i know, it was not a common option and involves a pretty substantial cut out in the deck just aft of the bow light. I chose to leave the cut-out when the boat was painted because I intend to reverse engineer and replicate the original because I just think it is cool. Pic.s of that will be included when I am back in action. Was just curious if anyone on here was familiar with the device. It is approximately 6" wide x 11" longin the shape of an elongated "D" with the radiused side facing foreward.

The boat is an '83 and while I have nowhere near preserved the original configuration, I am trying to keep some of the cool and unique original features.

Thanks again for all of you input and pictures. As always, a tremendous help!

-Paul