1999 Donzi Classic 16 - (not mine)

[nikster22]

All,

I'm returning to the forum from a ~2 1/2 year hiatus. After your great advice, I decided to stay away from a "project" Donzi and save some money for something in better shape. Well, that time is near!

I spotted this on the Syracuse, NY craigslist last year and thought it looked pretty good. It's now on the powerboat listings site.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/20333

I haven't been to look at it yet, and might go check it out this weekend. I'm just curious if anyone has any immediate year-to-dollar amount reactions. 14 years old for $13.5k. Too high? Reasonable? Deal? I've pretty much ruled out "Deal", or it'd be gone. I know there isn't a whole lot of info to work with on the listing, either. Just looking for some general input and I'll try to get more info after I check it out. I believe the current owner is the 2nd. Also (this may be obvious) it has an Alpha1 drive, not Bravo as the listing states. Also apologies if this shouldn't be in the "Donzis for sale" section, but that seemed appropriate. Thanks everyone!

Nik

[nikster22]

Well, I had the opportunity to look at this boat yesterday. Overall, it was pretty clean. I'd rate it as probably a 7 or 8 out of 10. There were a couple of issues that I noticed, but nothing major. I am curious, though, how those things might affect value.

First, there is a tennis ball-sized area on the engine hatch that shows damage. Looks like something might have fallen on it, although it is not particularly scratched, just the gelcoat is cracked. Perhaps someone jumped or stepped on it hard?

There is also a crack in the plexiglass windshield on the passengers side. Not sure how easy that is to replace.

The outdrive and hull are pretty clean, however after closer inspection I did see many remnants of Zebra Mussels (common problem in this area) all over the bottom of the hull and on the outdrive. Looks like someone may have powerwashed them off pretty well, but they are there. There is also a very faint waterline around the boat, further support that it probably spent some time in a slip sitting in the water. None of those signs are very obvious, and I honestly didn't even notice until I'd been looking at it for about 5 minutes. They are there, though, and I don't have a feel for what it would take to remove those cosmetic issues, or if anything can be done at all.

The owner fired it up for about 10 seconds. It immediately started and sounded unbelievable. Seemed to idle perfectly.

The interior is very good. The seats are perfect. The white switches and steering wheel look like someone was touching them with grease-covered hands (probably while working on the motor) - I assume that can all be resolved but I don't know what it would take.

The deck is, in my opinion, VERY shiny for a 14 year old boat, however it could probably benefit from a wetsand. Certainly not required though.

So, there is some more info to work with. This is far from a "project" boat, but it does need some attention. It would require at least a good cleaning right away. Beyond that, it seems pretty good. Does anyone know how 16's of this year (1999) were built? The floor, transom, and stringers in the engine bay appeared to be all fiberglass (from what I could tell) but I'm not sure. I'd be very surprised if this boat had any rot even if it was built with wood structural components, but I still would like to know. I can post some of the pictures I took if anyone is interested.

Thanks!

[biggiefl]

That is a highly optioned later model 16. Looks to be in great condition and from what you say it just needs a slight detailing. Sure we have all seen mid 90's 16's for under $10k but they are usually 6cyl, no option rigs with salt water use. I think for $12.5 and maybe even $13 it is a nice ride and you won't lose much when you sell in a few years to go larger. I would not worry about a crack in the plexi, easy fix over the winter. That windshiled is a very expensive option, roughly $1500-2k alone. the V8 is what I like, how many hours? Silent choice?

[nikster22]

Thanks for the reply!

Agreed, it is nicely optioned and you are dead on about the price, condition, and equipment found on most of the other "deals" on 16's that typically come up. I also found out that this year in fact was all fiberglass (floor, stringers, transom starting in 1995) so no rot worries.

It does not have an hour meter so that is a mystery that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with. It also doesn't have silent choice. It does appear to have some sort of a muffler/silencer built into the exhaust tips though. So, you can't make it "quiet", but it is more mellow than straight pipes. I'm not sure if that was a factory option or if someone put them in later.

It's also got trim tabs with controls at the helm. Has the automatic "fireboy" supression system, too. About the only thing it lacks is a sound system, but I'd say the motor accomplishes that task.

The owner said it came from a Marina near by so I may give them a call and see if I can get any more information. The current owner has had it less than a year, and apparently took it on trade for some excavation work, so its ownership history is a little unclear.

I'll try to get some pics up tonight - is it OK to do that since it's not mine? I guess it's free advertising worst case! :smile:

[Just Say N20]

Posting pictures is fine, encouraged actually.

Thoughts regarding the engine, and lack of known hours. And this is just my opinion. I would assess the general condition of the boat (which you have done), and then try and assign a level of maintenance (“love”) that had been given the entire package. If it appears to have been thoughtfully maintained, then the same is probably true for the engine.

Point is that I have seen well maintained engines SBC run nicely to well over 1,000 hours without issue. I have also seen neglected engines grenade at relatively low hours. So as I see it, the level of care given to the engine is much more important that the number of hours on the engine, within reason. I would be much more comfortable buying a well maintained package with 650 hours showing on the meter, than one that was “rode hard and put away wet” showing 175 hours.

When I am reviewing the pictures people take for the DONZI ads, I learn a lot from other stuff that has nothing to do with the boat. Is the area shown around the boat awesome? Clean driveway, with neatly trimmed yard and bushes around a house that is nicely cared for, or do you feel like you walked into a junk yard office when you approach the boat? I love it when I see meticulously organized shops, with tiled floors and rolling tool boxes with a drawer open with all the wrenches lined up in order of size. People tend to treat stuff according to whatever standard they feel comfortable with.

Your boat was taken on trade, so you don’t have any outside stuff to draw information from, but the boat itself will give you some idea of what type of person owned it.

I don’t think the price is unreasonable at all. I spent well just under 3X that amount restoring/modifying my 1967 Ski-Sporter.

[Greg Guimond]

I agree with Just Say N20, especially regarding the surroundings that the boat lives and is stored in. Nice, and orderly normally transfers over to how an owner will keep there toys and how open the check book will be for maintenance over the years. Also agree with biggiefl about the value of the windshield. If for some reason you decided you did not like it on the boat it would easily fetch at least $1,000. Now freshwater is the only way to go, so that is a big plus in my book as I boat in salt. A couple of other things to consider. First, does it just have a cockpit cover or does it also have a full storage cover? Is the trailer also a 1999 or is it later? From the picture it looks to be painted steel. How are the bunks and any rusted areas starting to show more then a wire brush and some touch up paint would handle? Rust never sleeps. How well laid out is the dash? When you go to sell it the bling and symmetry of a good dash layout tends to grab a first time performance boaters attention. The dash sounds like it might have other stuff jammed in there. Is the interior really in good shape? No stitching starting to pop here or there especially on the bucket seats and absolutely no tears or punctures? How are the snaps on the backs of the cushions? Those are some of the subjective things to look for, there are many folks on the forum who can add stuff for that engine and drive set-up as well. Sounds like you might have found a good one.

From the ad ......"This is a vary clean well maintained sweet 16 with all the options including 5.0 thunderbolt motor bravo drive, trim tabs, Performance mufflers right from the factory, gaffrig gauges, depth finder, snap on cover and comes with a performance trailer. Always freshwater boat and all fluids were changed at the end of the last season. Will send more pictures on request."

[Greg Guimond]

A couple of other things to consider. A properly done color sand and polishing including the deck, hullsides and bottom (because of the mussels) could easily cost you $800-$1,000. I'm not sure what zip code the boat is located in and where you are but just finding someone who actually knows what the heck they are doing is probably not going to be easy. Unlike the West Coast there are far fewer shops that can do the job properly in the Northeast :frown:

And here are two guys selling...........one with a 1997 and one with a 1995 for a comparison to your 1999. Neither mentions which engine.

"16 donzi - $11,500 (sarasota)1997 donzi excellent condition only seen fresh water great trailer 1 owner call 419 290 4117 please no text iwill send you pics through the phone"

"1995 Donzi Classic "Sweet" 16 in fantastic shape. Ready for the lake today. Clear titles on everything. Comes with everything needed except life jackets. Motor was replaced 3 years ago and is in excellent shape, very clean. The y pipe started to leak and we had to pull the motor to replace the y pipe, while out is was given a complete service, trim pump just replaced, new neutral shift switch, new impeller, new bellows, new trim sensors. Everything that needs to be done on an older boat has been done and boat is ready for the spring. Boat is always stored indoors or covered. Interior in excellent shape. Everything works all lights and gauges. Comes with snap in carpet, Fusion stereo, brand new anchor and 100 foot line, horn, bimini, cockpit cover, boat cover. Trailer is in good shape, a little rust. Bearings repacked with bearing buddies, new trailer jack, trailer has oversized axles with 6 lug tires that work great boat was trailered over 3000 miles last summer and never a problem. Priced at $11,000"

[nikster22]

Guys,

Excellent advice, really. I appreciate it. Going in order of posters:

Just Say N20: Agreed completely on the care vs. hours argument. That is typically how I buy a used car: I'd sooner buy one with 60k and solid records, clean fluids, etc. than one with 30k that is clearly beat. Personally, I tend to "love" and get very attached to all of the mechanical purchases I've made, and try to only buy ones that have been treated the way I would treat them. On this particular one, I'm having a tough time getting a read. Certainly, the current owner is good mechanically. He got the motor running after he bought it (changed spark plugs, cleaned the carb, drained the fuel tank, etc). Unfortunately, not much has been done to clean the boat, and I think he may have been the one that put greasy fingerprints on the white steering wheel and white switches. OK, not a big deal, but not something I would do. He also changed the outdrive fluid and engine oil. Now, if the previous owner left the boat in a state where it wasn't running (or running well), I'm not sure what to make of that. What it sounds like is maybe it got put away in storage and "forgotten" for some time, and then the current owner got a hold of it. Belonged to an older gentleman, so that is entirely possible. I'm also a little bothered by the fact that it was stored in water for a while. Again, not a huge deal, but also not something I would consider doing myself with a boat of this caliber. Yet, someone in its past decided that kind of treatment was fine - what else did they think was OK? Overall, it does have a very "forgotten" feel to it. I think the current owner just wanted to get it up and running so he could sell it. Prior to that, it may not have seen much recent use. You are correct, as far as where it is stored I can't tell much. It's currently in a commercial building with the cockpit cover on it stored next to a couple of other performance boats that are 3x its length. So, it's not in a bad area, but not in someone's personal workspace, either, so I can't tell too much.

Greg Guimond: More surprising info on the windshield. I had no idea it was that expensive. Personally, I think it looks great (though my head sits about 18" above it, and I'm only 5'6") and I'd definitely keep it. Certainly a bonus that this boat already has one, as buying one separately for a boat that didn't already have it would not be happening any time soon at that price! It only has a cockpit cover, so I would have to buy a cover for transport and storage. Also, it's only been stored (recently, at least) inside but with just the cockpit cover, not a full cover, so UV through windows may account for some of the deck chalkiness. I believe the trailer is from 1999 as well, have to confirm that though. It does have rust spots but I didn't check them out too much. There are several of them, though. I also noticed rust around one of the trim tab mounts, which I thought was odd. I'll post pics of that. Dash is clean. Trim controls and fireboy monitor are to the right of the wheel, Instruments are to the left in the center. Looks clean to me. In my opinion, the seats are in REALLY good shape. I didn't check them out like I would a Stickley chair, but looking at the photos they are outstanding for their age (even not for their age, they look great). Didn't check the snaps. I agree on the buffing/sanding, that sounds like a $500+ job at least. I've had people buff cars on a budget and been ready to scream, if you know what I mean. That service is of concern for the reason you pointed out, particularly since I'm up here in the boonies in Syracuse.

The lower comparison boat you provided sounds better maintained than this one, in my opinion. Also, I was flipping through older posts on here and there was one for sale in Dec 2012, an '04 with the MPI 5.0, aluminum trailer, windshield, etc. for $13,500 I believe. That, to me, looked like an incredible deal but I wasn't ready at that time and it wasn't near me. Maybe that was a great deal, but this is still a good deal? I don't know! I appreciate you providing the examples.

I'm going to upload some pics momentarily. Thanks again!

[nikster22]

Eye candy attached.

[biggiefl]

Eye candy attached.

That boat looks pretty sweet....again make an offer of $12k and settle between that and $13k and I think you scored. It is HEAVILY optioned and I think worth at least a $2-3k premium over a 6cyl in similar condition.

PS...like classic Whalers, these are not common boats. I always tell my fellow Whaler buyers to go with cash and go fast or you WILL lose the deal. Condition is 99% of the deal, price depends on condition. When I found my 22' I was only looking for about 2 months and everyone I knew thought I was just eager to buy. In almost 2 years since I "eagerly" bought my 22 I have NEVER found a better boat for the $$. Do it and don't look back $500-1000 over payment is not worth waiting 2 years.

[mattyboy]

nice looking setup

the trailer was built for that boat . You would be hard pressed to find a better built trailer than a performance trailer out of lake george. with reasonable care they will last a long time most damage to them come from chips taken out of the paint by road debri. they are a pleasure to tow and to launch and recapture.

good luck hope it works out for you

[nikster22]

Thanks everyone! To Just Say N20 and Greg Guimond: I wrote a small novel responding to both of your posts last night before I posted the pictures. Looked like it went through but it still hasn't shown up yet.. not sure why. If it doesn't, I'll try to recapture it tonight. Essentially, agreed completely on both of your advice and suggestions and I appreciate the input!

[nikster22]

Mattyboy: Good to know on the trailer. Looked to be in pretty good shape to me aside from the minor rust spots. Sounds like you're in agreement. Tires look almost new, lots of tread. Only questions mark would be the bearings.

[duckhunter]

That 16 is overall pretty clean and nicely optioned. Small block, trim tabs, nice trailer, etc. If I were in the market for one I would pick it up in a heartbeat. As already mentioned, you would need to budget 2-3x the asking price to restore a basket case.

I would probably buy it and get it ready for the upcoming season with a thorough cleaning followed by a good check of all of the mechanical systems. Buy or download the appropriate Mercruiser manual and really go through the drivetrain to catch up on any deferred maintenance. Records from the previous owner / shop would be very helpful here. I went through this on the 21 I bought a couple of years ago in similar condition, found a lot of stuff that needed attention (exhaust gaskets, tune-up, filters, etc) that wasn't immediately obvious at the pre-sale inspection or sea trial. Once you have all of the mechanical systems up-to-snuff you can start running the boat and figure out how to make it fit your needs.

With the cracked windshield, I would run with it on for a while and then take it off and see if it is worth replacing to you. Lots of guys seem to prefer no windshield.

That is a '99, so the 5.0 should be a roller cam vortec motor. That's good news, it is a big step forward from earlier SBCs. I am upgrading my 5.7 from 2v to 4v carb / intake and hoping to see the same hp gains that others have by getting rid of the 2 barrel "restrictor plate." That can be easily done for under a grand. Food for thought if you buy the boat and need something to do next winter...

I wouldn't be too worried about the Alpha Gen II drive in a light boat under 300hp, just avoid hole shots and watch re-entry if you air it out. Replacements are available from SEI for around $1500 with a 3year no-fault warranty. Drive showers are inexpensive and seem to work well.

At the end of the day I think you would have a hard time finding a similar freshwater boat with a V8 and everything else for +/- $13k. If you really want a 16 this one is tough to beat.

[mattyboy]

I had a 1998 performance trailer under my 67 16. only difference it was a tandem. They are a float on float off trailer and they set up for the boat. they make life around the ramp a pleasure the boat centers itself no reloading clip and go.

bearing can be replaced

[duckhunter]

Ok, I typed a long post that was subsequently eaten by the software. That seems to be a trend with longer posts.

Bottom line, this thing looks like a solid deal. If you're in the market for a 16 it is tough to beat. The V8, thru-hulls, trim tabs, good trailer, etc are all great options. As mentioned above, it would cost 2-3x the price to replicate this boat from a basket case. Cosmetic stuff can be sorted out with some elbow grease between now and boating season. Make sure to catch up on deferred maintenance, it can bite you even on a great looking boat. Stuff like exhaust riser gaskets, filters, hoses, drive fluid, impeller, tune-up stuff, etc. Grab a Merc manual or download one. I and others could probably email you one.

The vortec small block is great and from my research responsds well to a four barrel conversion. I will have a proof-of-concept here shortly with my 350. The Alpha Gen II drive should be great in a light, under 300hp boat. If you're really worried about it, grab a $1500 SEI drive and put one or the other on the shelf as a spare.

Some guys prefer running w/o the windshield, I would give that a shot before committing to a replacement.

Maybe my earlier post will pop up at some point... Good luck.

[Tidbart]

I see nothing there that can't be cleaned up and brought back with some time and elbow grease. The windshield glass is replaceable.

Good luck.

[Just Say N20]

I’m not exactly sure why you aren’t seeing the lengthy posts you authored. I am seeing them. I don’t understand this whole “moderator” status that I have in the For Sale section with respect how it impacts what I can see versus what others see.

The long posts were visible to me as soon as they were posted. I didn’t think Harbormaster was reviewing posts before approving them.

When you can see the posts in question, make another short post saying you can see it.

It would also be interesting to know of others are able to see the posts in question, and it is only the author of the post who can’t see it.

Interestingly, I just reviewed the thread while in the “reply” mode, and the long posts are NOT there. And yet, when I go to the page, for example, here is one of them:

Guys,

Excellent advice, really. I appreciate it. Going in order of posters:

Just Say N20: Agreed completely on the care vs. hours argument. That is typically how I buy a used car: I'd sooner buy one with 60k and solid records, clean fluids, etc. than one with 30k that is clearly beat. Personally, I tend to "love" and get very attached to all of the mechanical purchases I've made, and try to only buy ones that have been treated the way I would treat them. On this particular one, I'm having a tough time getting a read. Certainly, the current owner is good mechanically. He got the motor running after he bought it (changed spark plugs, cleaned the carb, drained the fuel tank, etc). Unfortunately, not much has been done to clean the boat, and I think he may have been the one that put greasy fingerprints on the white steering wheel and white switches. OK, not a big deal, but not something I would do. He also changed the outdrive fluid and engine oil. Now, if the previous owner left the boat in a state where it wasn't running (or running well), I'm not sure what to make of that. What it sounds like is maybe it got put away in storage and "forgotten" for some time, and then the current owner got a hold of it. Belonged to an older gentleman, so that is entirely possible. I'm also a little bothered by the fact that it was stored in water for a while. Again, not a huge deal, but also not something I would consider doing myself with a boat of this caliber. Yet, someone in its past decided that kind of treatment was fine - what else did they think was OK? Overall, it does have a very "forgotten" feel to it. I think the current owner just wanted to get it up and running so he could sell it. Prior to that, it may not have seen much recent use. You are correct, as far as where it is stored I can't tell much. It's currently in a commercial building with the cockpit cover on it stored next to a couple of other performance boats that are 3x its length. So, it's not in a bad area, but not in someone's personal workspace, either, so I can't tell too much.

Greg Guimond: More surprising info on the windshield. I had no idea it was that expensive. Personally, I think it looks great (though my head sits about 18" above it, and I'm only 5'6") and I'd definitely keep it. Certainly a bonus that this boat already has one, as buying one separately for a boat that didn't already have it would not be happening any time soon at that price! It only has a cockpit cover, so I would have to buy a cover for transport and storage. Also, it's only been stored (recently, at least) inside but with just the cockpit cover, not a full cover, so UV through windows may account for some of the deck chalkiness. I believe the trailer is from 1999 as well, have to confirm that though. It does have rust spots but I didn't check them out too much. There are several of them, though. I also noticed rust around one of the trim tab mounts, which I thought was odd. I'll post pics of that. Dash is clean. Trim controls and fireboy monitor are to the right of the wheel, Instruments are to the left in the center. Looks clean to me. In my opinion, the seats are in REALLY good shape. I didn't check them out like I would a Stickley chair, but looking at the photos they are outstanding for their age (even not for their age, they look great). Didn't check the snaps. I agree on the buffing/sanding, that sounds like a $500+ job at least. I've had people buff cars on a budget and been ready to scream, if you know what I mean. That service is of concern for the reason you pointed out, particularly since I'm up here in the boonies in Syracuse.

The lower comparison boat you provided sounds better maintained than this one, in my opinion. Also, I was flipping through older posts on here and there was one for sale in Dec 2012, an '04 with the MPI 5.0, aluminum trailer, windshield, etc. for $13,500 I believe. That, to me, looked like an incredible deal but I wasn't ready at that time and it wasn't near me. Maybe that was a great deal, but this is still a good deal? I don't know! I appreciate you providing the examples.

I'm going to upload some pics momentarily. Thanks again!

[nikster22]

That is a stumper. Well, at least you were able to see it and it's shown in your post, so it wasn't lost. I hate spending 20 minutes writing only to have it vanish into the ether.

[nikster22]

Anyone have any thoughts on the rust around the port trim tab? Seemed weird that one was showing it and the other wasn't (yet). Can simply remove the screws and take the trim tab off to clean up, then put it back? Is it indicative of the wrong screws/materials being used?

[duckhunter]

Anyone have any thoughts on the rust around the port trim tab? Seemed weird that one was showing it and the other wasn't (yet). Can simply remove the screws and take the trim tab off to clean up, then put it back? Is it indicative of the wrong screws/materials being used?

My guess would be poor quality SS hardware. You should be able to fix it easily enough with new screws and some good sealant (4200 or similar). Those kinds of things are aggravating but good winter projects.

[Tidbart]

I would tend to agree with Duckhunter. Stainless will rust, depends on the quality of the metal and the impurities within. No big deal, can be cleaned up.

B

[Morgan's Cloud]

Where exactly is this bleeding ?
While it's not at all unusual to get a dud s/s screw or bolt every once in a while , my experience is that in 98% of the cases where s/s is bleeding it's caused by not sealing the surface of the hardware completely against the hull/deck with the appropriate sealing material.
S/S will not bleed if it can completely 'breathe' . Don't confuse that though with a cheaper piece tarnishing or getting what looks like rust spots on it. I'm talking about the often seen bow or stern towing eyes with long, horrible red stains running down the hull. The rear surfaces of the hardware want to breathe but can't breathe properly so you have to seal them completely off from the air and water.
Same goes for trim tabs ... take the stuff off , acid bath it to remove the stain ,same goes for the hull stains too. Muriatic acid works wonders. Reassemble with the sealant extending all the way out to the edges of the hardware and you shouldn't have any more problems.

Pick your sealant carefully though . I still recommend a polysulfide based one as you can still disassemble later on down the road and the watertightness for the application is as good as 5200 (keep away from that stuff) or similar.

[nikster22]

My guess would be poor quality SS hardware. You should be able to fix it easily enough with new screws and some good sealant (4200 or similar). Those kinds of things are aggravating but good winter projects.


I would tend to agree with Duckhunter. Stainless will rust, depends on the quality of the metal and the impurities within. No big deal, can be cleaned up.


Where exactly is this bleeding ?
While it's not at all unusual to get a dud s/s screw or bolt every once in a while , my experience is that in 98% of the cases where s/s is bleeding it's caused by not sealing the surface of the hardware completely against the hull/deck with the appropriate sealing material.
S/S will not bleed if it can completely 'breathe' . Don't confuse that though with a cheaper piece tarnishing or getting what looks like rust spots on it. I'm talking about the often seen bow or stern towing eyes with long, horrible red stains running down the hull. The rear surfaces of the hardware want to breathe but can't breathe properly so you have to seal them completely off from the air and water.
Same goes for trim tabs ... take the stuff off , acid bath it to remove the stain ,same goes for the hull stains too. Muriatic acid works wonders. Reassemble with the sealant extending all the way out to the edges of the hardware and you shouldn't have any more problems.

Pick your sealant carefully though . I still recommend a polysulfide based one as you can still disassemble later on down the road and the watertightness for the application is as good as 5200 (keep away from that stuff) or similar.

That doesn't sound so bad. I am probably a little paranoid about rust being from an area that uses salt on the roads in the winter. I know road salt isn't the cause of this, but that is usually the beginning of the end for a car. I think I'd take your advice and pull it, reseal, and replace. I will keep those sealant suggestions in mind. I honestly didn't know stainless could rust - learning all the time here!

[nikster22]

Just submitted another one that didn't show up...

[nikster22]

Trying this again but removing the quotes to make it smaller.

To the trim tab comments:

That doesn't sound so bad. I am probably a little paranoid about rust being from an area that uses salt on the roads in the winter. I know road salt isn't the cause of this, but that is usually the beginning of the end for a car. I think I'd take your advice and pull it, reseal, and replace. I will keep those sealant suggestions in mind. I honestly didn't know stainless could rust - learning all the time here!

[nikster22]

I must say that at this point you guys have made me pretty confident about this one. There are a couple of things before I'd move forward, though:

1.) We'd like to see it operate on the water. I'm sure some would buy it without that, but that's me. If I lose it as a result of waiting to do that, well, that's just the way she goes.

2.) We'd like to have a pre-purchase inspection done assuming the seller wouldn't mind. This is a pretty big purchase for us so the piece of mind is important.

Unfortunately, the sea trial pushes the purchasing out a ways, probably into late April or early May. Good for saving up a little more cash, bad in case someone snaps it up. Guess that's a risk I'm willing to take. I've gone this long without one, surely I can go a little longer!

Any thoughts on those two things? Customary? Unnecessary?

[mattyboy]

Nikster it all depends

I like your plan if water testing makes you feel better it is not a bad thing. My 16 I made the seller water test on the test the trim tabs leaked I beat him up a little over it for a few hundered bucks to fix the rest of the test went well. turned out the ram seal were dry and by the time i got it back to my lake they were fine.

I didn't do a formal survey but I had a friend who worked on boats come and check it out with me, a formal survey works if it gives you piece of mind. I did what you are doing asking questions here for the rules of thumb.

My benchseat was a here's your money and I'm out of dodge before the seller could change his mind. You may loose this one and after you look at other boats you may regret letting it go or you may find something you like better. think positive we are looking at your first Donzi :)

remember these are boats things break they cost money but these Donzi classics hold they value well, and the return on investment is usually very high compared to other plastic boats as long as you take care of it.

[duckhunter]

Sea trials and surveys are great tools for assessing a boat purchase. Pretty much mandatory once you get into bigger boats with more systems.

I didn't do a sea trial on the Whaler, just looked at it and ran it on the muffs. Did some dickering over a beer with the owner, handed him a wad of cash, and drove away. No survey on the Donzi, but did a sea trial and caught a bad gimbal bearing and leaking fuel line. Had both fixed by the dealer as part of the deal, but ended up refixing both issues myself.

Honestly, on a 16 I don't know that I would demand a sea trial or survey. It would be the best course of action no doubt, but at the expense of potentially losing a pretty good deal. Maybe check the compression and pull the drainplug of the lower and look for big chunks of gear. But if the compression is good, the drive isn't on its last legs, and there are no obvious structural issues with the hull I would beat the seller up a little on the windshield and cosmetic stuff and cut him a check. Use the quote you got above on the windshield or one from Donzi Direct as a negotiating tool.

Guys buy boats, cars, and wives sight unseen on the internet all the time and there are definitely some horror stories. Also some real good luck stories. If you have a chance to crawl around the thing in person and hear it run that is probably in the realm of good enough.

[nikster22]

I am trying to stay positive! In fact, I am VERY excited about the whole thing. So, even if this one doesn't work out, just being in a position to afford one that is usable right out of the box is an achievement for us. It is also comforting to have this forum as a resource, so thank you all again for advising me. I doubt I'd be anywhere near considering purchasing something like this if it wasn't for this information and knowledge pool coupled with the friendly attitudes behind it.

I think value retention is definitely part of the appeal for us with the Donzi. For a used boat, there doesn't seem to be a much better value out there. And as biggiefl I'm sure will agree with, they're right up there with Whalers as far as depreciation goes.

My motto is: Buy stuff that looks good. Boats, cars, houses - if it's timelessly-appealing and built well, you can't go wrong. The other side of the coin is, like most expensive hobbies, there's no free lunch. Much like sports cars, salt water fish, hi-fi, artwork, etc, high maintenance is always part of the equation. But, if you love it and you use it, it is never a waste. Better yet, if you can do these things on a budget and buy wisely, you may even come out ahead.

I think I will hold out for better weather and the sea trial/inspection. I'll continue to research until we approach that point. Thanks again!

[duckhunter]

Ok, the forum ate my post again. :doh: Saved that sucker this time, though. Going to try and repost.:crossfing:

[duckhunter]

Sea trials and surveys are great tools for assessing a boat purchase. Pretty much mandatory once you get into bigger boats with more systems.

I didn't do a sea trial on the Whaler, just looked at it and ran it on the muffs. Did some dickering over a beer with the owner, handed him a wad of cash, and drove away. No survey on the Donzi, but did a sea trial and caught a bad gimbal bearing and leaking fuel line. Had both fixed by the dealer as part of the deal, but ended up refixing both issues myself.

Honestly, on a 16 I don't know that I would demand a sea trial or survey. It would be the best course of action no doubt, but at the expense of potentially losing a pretty good deal. Maybe check the compression and pull the drainplug of the lower and look for big chunks of gear. But if the compression is good, the drive isn't on its last legs, and there are no obvious structural issues with the hull I would beat the seller up a little on the windshield and cosmetic stuff and cut him a check. Use the quote you got above on the windshield or one from Donzi Direct as a negotiating tool.

Guys buy boats, cars, and wives sight unseen on the internet all the time and there are definitely some horror stories. Also some real good luck stories. If you have a chance to crawl around the thing in person and hear it run that is probably in the realm of good enough.

[duckhunter]

No love. "Submitted for moderator approval." Going to try and post in multiple sections:

Sea trials and surveys are great tools for assessing a boat purchase. Pretty much mandatory once you get into bigger boats with more systems.

I didn't do a sea trial on the Whaler, just looked at it and ran it on the muffs. Did some dickering over a beer with the owner, handed him a wad of cash, and drove away. No survey on the Donzi, but did a sea trial and caught a bad gimbal bearing and leaking fuel line. Had both fixed by the dealer as part of the deal, but ended up refixing both issues myself.

[duckhunter]

Part II. At least I'm padding my post count...

Honestly, on a 16 I don't know that I would demand a sea trial or survey. It would be the best course of action no doubt, but at the expense of potentially losing a pretty good deal. Maybe check the compression and pull the drainplug of the lower and look for big chunks of gear. But if the compression is good, the drive isn't on its last legs, and there are no obvious structural issues with the hull I would beat the seller up a little on the windshield and cosmetic stuff and cut him a check. Use the quote you got above on the windshield or one from Donzi Direct as a negotiating tool.

Guys buy boats, cars, and wives sight unseen on the internet all the time and there are definitely some horror stories. Also some real good luck stories. If you have a chance to crawl around the thing in person and hear it run that is probably in the realm of good enough.

[Greg Guimond]

Donzi Sweet 16 Red/White - $15900

1982 Donzi Sweet 16 red/white with new 350 chevy motor with trailer all new 15,900 locarted in oyster bay call 631 774 5657

[nikster22]

duckhunter we must be on the same wavelength because I just responded to Mattyboy and had a feeling the length of that post was on the edge so I saved it. Sure enough, there it isn't! I'll give it a bit before i repost...

Anyhow, you're right, often those things do get purchase sight unseen. I'm just typically not one of the people who buys them. Particularly in this case, I have zero recourse if there's a problem because the guy isn't a dealer and we're not going through eBay or anything like that.

[nikster22]

The other factor in this equation is that I'm splitting this purchase with someone who's even more cautious than I am, and she'll definitely want to see it run. Frankly, so do I. Perhaps as I become more comfortable with boats and boat buying, that will change. Until then, I think that is just what we need to feel comfortable. If it is gone before then, well, I guess the time just wasn't right. And then I can kick myself all summer because all I have is my RC boat :cool!:

[mattyboy]

going partners on a boat is a BAD IDEA

[nikster22]

Also - can I pick up a compression gauge reasonably? That'd probably be worth having no matter what the outcome of this is. I did hear it run for about 15 seconds (no water hooked up) and it sounded great, fired right up. It had definitely NOT been started right before I got there because I followed the guy to the storage place and it was cold when I was poking around in the engine compartment prior to starting. Is it bad running it for that short time with now water going through?

[nikster22]

going partners on a boat is a BAD IDEA

Ordinarily I'm sure you're correct. We've been together for about 6 years and have funded other purchases in this way. I suppose everything could be viewed as a risk, but I figure it is still less risky than a partner in a business ;)

SWEET RIDE, SIR! I've never seen one with a bench seat before. Beautiful.

[duckhunter]

Exceptionally bad to run the motor with no water. It will eat the impeller (especially an old one) in under 15 sec.

Compression gauges are around $30. You want one with a schrader valve in the end.

I will echo the above - buying a boat with a partner rarely works out well. Better for one to buy it and the other can kick in for gas and beer.

[nikster22]

Hmmm.. well, that's about how long he ran it for. Wonder how many times it has been demoed in that way.

You both make good points about the partner. I certainly would never consider it with someone who was just a friend or who I didn't know extraordinarily well.

[SanDogDewey]

Part II. At least I'm padding my post count...

Honestly, on a 16 I don't know that I would demand a sea trial or survey. It would be the best course of action no doubt, but at the expense of potentially losing a pretty good deal. Maybe check the compression and pull the drainplug of the lower and look for big chunks of gear. But if the compression is good, the drive isn't on its last legs, and there are no obvious structural issues with the hull I would beat the seller up a little on the windshield and cosmetic stuff and cut him a check. Use the quote you got above on the windshield or one from Donzi Direct as a negotiating tool.

Guys buy boats, cars, and wives sight unseen on the internet all the time and there are definitely some horror stories. Also some real good luck stories. If you have a chance to crawl around the thing in person and hear it run that is probably in the realm of good enough.

+1 with duckhunter. Boat looks really nice in the pics. Agree with a compression check and checking the outdrive, everything else is easy to replace. Easier for me to say since I do almost all my own work. If you're not mechanically inclined, it may be better to look at something new with a warranty. But looking at this used boat from hundreds of miles away, this one looks like a keeper though. You should get it on the water if you get the chance.

[Just Say N20]

I'm still baffled by the posting issues. I see everything you have posted. Some of it multiple times.

Running the engine without water is a bad idea. The impeller could be dry from sitting. Better if winterized through the lower unit water pick up.

The impeller is in the lower unit, and is definitely do- able if you are mechanically inclined. I would replace it, if/when you get the boat. Sure, it might be fine. . . But it is an inexpensive fix, and will give you peace of mind.

[katanna]

Also - can I pick up a compression gauge reasonably? That'd probably be worth having no matter what the outcome of this is. I did hear it run for about 15 seconds (no water hooked up) and it sounded great, fired right up. It had definitely NOT been started right before I got there because I followed the guy to the storage place and it was cold when I was poking around in the engine compartment prior to starting. Is it bad running it for that short time with now water going through?

If you started it for 15 seconds in cold storage with no hose hooked up, you will need an impeller kit before the sea trial. I wont even roll mine over with no muffs hooked up. The pumps gets wiped out instantly.

[Rob M]

If the boat checks out in person and you are satisfied overall with the apparent condition, my recommendation is to make a fair offer based on overall condition (knock off $$ for the cracked windshield) but subject to a satisfactory mechanical and overall marine inspection. Put down a reasonable (refundable) deposit. Get the terms in writing in advance. Hire a certified marine surveyor (probably $300.00) plus a mechanic, probably $75 plus travel. If it checks out OK finish the deal. If there are issues and you still want to proceed, negotiate based on the evidence identified in your survey and inspection. The $375 buys you peace of mind and could save big $$ in the future. If the seller balks at any of the above - move on. It is a reasonable way to buy a boat, and any straight up seller should be fine with it in this soft market (or any market). People are giving away boats in the US relative to 5 years ago and I see them sitting unsold for ages - plenty of good inventory.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.

Rob

[John C in PA]

Coupla thoughts nikster22:


I've used a windshield chip filler before and they work really well. In one case if I didn't know where the crack was before I fixed it would be almost invisible. As usual, YMMV depending on crack length, width, depth. Maybe a car glass replacement outfit can come over and fix it.
in my opinion, a water test is essential. Some defects won't show up unless under load. Will the motor make rated RPM? or stumble and cough? Unusual vibration? Shifts OK? Is the transom seal watertight?


Good luck, John C

[nikster22]

Ah yes, the impeller. I knew there was something bad about running it at all with no water, but that heat wouldn't build up enough over 15 seconds - guess the impeller is it. I contested that starting it was OK with no water before he did it, so maybe he's planning on doing the impeller before Spring anyhow? I will definitely stick a new one in there if I end up with it. Hopefully, it won't overheat on the sea trial.

$300 to $350 is what I'd planned for the inspection. I "know a guy" who can do a at least the engine portion of the mechanical check-out. As you said, Rob, any pushback on any of those things and I would pass. This guy seemed perfectly fine with me crawling all over the thing, asking questions, and taking my time, so I don't anticipate subsequent inspections to be a problem but who knows. I'm trying to not do what seems to come naturally, which is to convince myself that this is the only one out there and that I have to make a move quickly. I feel like that's how I've ended up with stuff that I never should have bought in the first place!

[nikster22]

John C in PA Coupla thoughts nikster22:



I've used a windshield chip filler before and they work really well. In one case if I didn't know where the crack was before I fixed it would be almost invisible. As usual, YMMV depending on crack length, width, depth. Maybe a car glass replacement outfit can come over and fix it.
in my opinion, a water test is essential. Some defects won't show up unless under load. Will the motor make rated RPM? or stumble and cough? Unusual vibration? Shifts OK? Is the transom seal watertight?


John - was wondering about the chip filler myself. I didn't know if the plexi had the same refractive index as the auto glass, but maybe there is some specifically for polymers that will. Certainly worth looking into and would be a solid get-me-through-the-summer fix.

I think the water test is important, too. Again, I know people personally who wouldn't, and enjoy the risk/reward of a quick buy. For this item (something I'll be out in the middle of a lake with) and for this kind of bucks, I NEED to see it operate, for all of the reasons you listed. And also, do we enjoy this thing? I have trouble believing that will be "no", but I've never ridden in or driven one, so it is a valid, albeit unlikely, concern.

[nikster22]

Sorry, another re-post. Too long with the quote and wasn't showing up.

John - was wondering about the chip filler myself. I didn't know if the plexi had the same refractive index as the auto glass, but maybe there is some specifically for polymers that will. Certainly worth looking into and would be a solid get-me-through-the-summer fix.

I think the water test is important, too. Again, I know people personally who wouldn't, and enjoy the risk/reward of a quick buy. For this item (something I'll be out in the middle of a lake with) and for this kind of bucks, I NEED to see it operate, for all of the reasons you listed. And also, do we enjoy this thing? I have trouble believing that will be "no", but I've never ridden in or driven one, so it is a valid, albeit unlikely, concern.

[John C in PA]

I don't know if the boat windscreen has the same type of "sandwich" construction as a car. That's why I added the part about a pro. Could save ya 2 grand.

My 16 developed a transom seal leak after I had it a few months. The seal was $7; the labor to pull the motor was significant.

Replacing an Alpha impeller isn't near as EZ as on a Cobra so make sure the seller will do it.

My Sweet 16 is a ball to drive. Like I said, its like a surf board at 55 mph.

John C in PA

[mattyboy]

nikster,

let me preface this with "the 16 is a great little boat and I loved mine"

but all the true deep vee Donzi classsics have some handling habits that need to get used too.

I would strongly suggest a water ride to see if this is the right boat for you and your partner. the 2+2 16 classic while it does give the passenger their own seat great for hard riding and rough water it is cramped over the lounge seat 16 which is better for sunning,lounging and water sports. Neither are the let's pack a big cooler and some friends and go out for the day with all this stuff kinda boats. they have low freeboard and are close to the water which can make some scared but it does make 50 feel like 70

Just when you think you have it mastered it will jump up and scare the hell out of you . they roll hard onto their sides in turns, they can fall off to one side when crossing wakes or waves, with tabs they can catch and the boat will ride along the rub rail going straight. They are all very prop sensitive.

I had my 16 in water that I would not even think of going into in any other 16 footer. I had my 16 for 8 yrs and if it had the 2+2 seating I may still have it, but the wife and I aren't getting any younger so we moved up to a bigger boat.

[John C in PA]

nikster, let me preface this with "the 16 is a great little boat and I loved mine"

but all the true deep vee Donzi classsics have some handling habits that need to get used too.

This man speaks the absolute truth nikster. The first time I took my 16 out to wring it out (after I found a real mechanic to repair it) I ended the day with my right hand hurting from gripping the rail so tight when I was running hard. You definitely have to learn this boat. But once you do its a real blast.


John C

[John C in PA]

nikster, let me preface this with "the 16 is a great little boat and I loved mine" but all the true deep vee Donzi classsics have some handling habits that need to get used too.

This man speaks the absolute truth nikster. The first time I took my 16 out to wring it out (after I found a real mechanic to repair it) I ended the day with my right hand hurting from gripping the rail so tight when I was running hard. You definitely have to learn this boat. But once you do its a real blast.


John C

[nikster22]

She sounds like a handful. I think I love it already.

We're mainly buying this to "get away" on the weekends, just the two of us. So, the space is perfect and we're both short and have probably 250 lbs combined weight. That rear bench is small but I think it's big enough for her to lay on and should do the job. Anyone know if the front seats swivel or are they static? Maybe that varies boat to boat. We've never wanted a bring-15-friends-and-coworkers-along boat. If I want to do that, I'll freeload off of someone else' ride!

I appreciate the speed dynamics information very much. I like cars where you're only a few inches off of the road, so a boat a few inches off the water is perfect - I think. This boat may see Lake Ontario occasionally, so it is a major plus that she'll handle some chop.

[nikster22]

That was one question I had - how the heck do you get back into it if you go swimming? I know the sides are low, but there is really nothing to stand on. I'm not looking for a full-on ladder like some of the floating minivans have, but this doesn't seem to have anything at all.

[mattyboy]

climb the drive

[John C in PA]

That was one question I had - how the heck do you get back into it if you go swimming? I know the sides are low, but there is really nothing to stand on. I'm not looking for a full-on ladder like some of the floating minivans have, but this doesn't seem to have anything at all.

I've climbed the drive but that's kinda dangerous if you slip and hit the prop blades. If its shallow enough to stand, you can finagle your way back onboard over the gun'l. If you have money to burn you can install a disappearing ladder liek Hornet Marine uses. Super neat item.

BTW: the 16 isn't difficult to drive (unless your last boat was a 12' aluminum Starcraft with a trolling motor :lookaroun:) but you need seat time to build confidence.

John C

[nikster22]

climb the drive



BTW: the 16 isn't difficult to drive (unless your last boat was a 12' aluminum Starcraft with a trolling motor :lookaroun:) but you need seat time to build confidence.

That is a sweet ladder but you weren't kidding on the price. I guess gunnels or climb-the-drive it is. Doesn't sound too bad.

12' Starcraft isn't far off the mark. I had (still have) a mid 1950's Chris Craft Kit Boat. 14'. 20 hp Mercury Mark 25E in "Sunset Orange" with Quicksilver remote control. A little squirrely at speed, but when the stop speed is ~18 mph there's not too much to worry about!

[Carl C]

It's not really a "handful". You can have 20+ years experience driving other types of performance boat and your first time out with a Classic will have you saying WTF?? Once you master it though, once you learn how to dip the rubrail in a hard turn without rolling the boat onto it's side, etc., etc. they are an absolute joy to drive. Partly because of the skill it takes to drive them. I have a 22 and I love driving it.

[Greg Guimond]

After you get it checked out mechanically, I suggest you leave the girlfriend on the dock nikster22 and then let her rip. Two things come with that. First, the lanyard is a must, and second wear the vest, don't just throw it in the ski locker :yes:

[Just Say N20]

+100 on the kill switch lanyard and life vest. Get an inflatable vest that is almost nothing to wear but will inflate and float you face up.

[nikster22]

Greg that is a great pic!

Has anyone ever fallen out of one of these things? Should I be scared to drive it fast? I'd like to master it, but I don't want to kill myself in the process. I have a feeling the boaters' safety coarse won't be covering any of that :)

[John C in PA]

Greg, that's a terrrible picture :rolleyes:. My wife just leaned over and asked me if I "...intend to do that with our Donzi?". "Why, no Honey :crossfing:. That's just some crazy guy."

Nikster, none of us are trying to scare you :rlol:. Just a common consensus that wheel time is essential. You can put the rubrail in the water fairly easily. What area do you boat in?

John C

[hdsadey]

make sure ur shift interupter switch (if equipped) is working properly and adjusted correctly. the first real test drive with my 16 the switch was not adjusted right, i was torquing her up around 45 and climbing when the switch cutoff the ignition. that consequently produced a hold on to ur ass type of puckering. she nose dived and damn near threw me out. holy **** what a feeling. i love my 16 lol

[CHACHI]

If your boat is going to see Lake Ontario, then haul it to the St Lawrence River.

I can't stress life jackets and lanyards enough.

Ken

[mattyboy]

she is going to scare the $#i+ out of you and your partner it is just a matter of when. Pucker look at the face of the guy in the back deat of the yellow 16 "$hit first you say it then you do it"

My wife as a passenger never like the high side of the turn when she was with me it was right turns only LOL
(note on yours it will be just the opposite)

also when she got the chance to drive she took pleasure in returning the favor and bounce me all around the boat.


just a note the famous pic of the yellow 16 in the air is called Rstones72 probably cause the guy was Rich Stone or Rob Stone wonder if the R stands for Really Big ????????

[nikster22]

mattyboy those are some intense pictures! I think my girlfriend would be having a similar reaction to John's wife, and this purchase would be immediately shut down. :frown:

I am wondering if I shouldn't try and ride in/drive one of these before I continue looking to buy I suppose I could drive this one, but I don't want to waste the guy's time and would like to spend a little more time behind the wheel than just enough to confirm that it runs OK. Probably should have been doing that over the last 2-3 years while I was getting prepared financially. We had some family friends way back that had a 16 (that is how I found out about the brand). Perhaps I should approach them about doing a little test drive in theirs first, assuming they still have it.

[nikster22]

John C in PA
Greg, that's a terrrible picture :rolleyes:. My wife just leaned over and asked me if I "...intend to do that with our Donzi?". "Why, no Honey :crossfing:. That's just some crazy guy."

Nikster, none of us are trying to scare you :rlol:. Just a common consensus that wheel time is essential. You can put the rubrail in the water fairly easily. What area do you boat in?

John C


We'd be boating mostly in the fingerlakes, Skaneateles, Owasco, Cayuga, etc. Fairly small water.

[nikster22]

hdsadey
make sure ur shift interupter switch (if equipped) is working properly and adjusted correctly. the first real test drive with my 16 the switch was not adjusted right, i was torquing her up around 45 and climbing when the switch cutoff the ignition. that consequently produced a hold on to ur ass type of puckering. she nose dived and damn near threw me out. holy **** what a feeling. i love my 16 lol


Wow!

[John C in PA]

nikster, hdsadey's comment is more likely in reference to OMC drives. You have a microswitch riding in the open on a forked lever. It kills 4 cylinders to allow smoother shifting. I don't recall Alpha drives having that issue. Mine was a bitch until a real mechanic replaced it.


I'll be in Clayton in the TI the week of June 17th. You are welcome to come up and scare yourself up there.

John C

[hdsadey]

Nope its on an Alpha drive. Not adjusted correctly I suppose the drive had too much pressure on it tripping the switch. It stumbles the ignition for a split second to unload the drive allowing it to shift smoothly. I just disconnected it for the time being. Will rehook it when I have time to adjust.

[Greg Guimond]

Greg that is a great pic! Has anyone ever fallen out of one of these things? Should I be scared to drive it fast? I'd like to master it, but I don't want to kill myself in the process. I have a feeling the boaters' safety coarse won't be covering any of that :)

It takes a lot to get thrown out of one. You'll do fine, they can be tons of fun in the lower speeds and then over time you will get the hang of it so I would not be concerned at all. Wear the vest though, and that's no joke. I don't know what the V8 makes for HP or what the top speed would be, perhaps 58-60 perfect conditions?

[mattyboy]

it might make sense to post up and see if there are local forum members up there that you might be able to catch a ride. the LGDCC dustoff is up in Lake George sure we can get you a ride in a few different size classics but that might be a little late in the season.

[nikster22]

mattyboy
it might make sense to post up and see if there are local forum members up there that you might be able to catch a ride. the LGDCC dustoff is up in Lake George sure we can get you a ride in a few different size classics but that might be a little late in the season.



That would be great. Late in the season is better than never. I am not in a huge rush. If I miss out on this one, so be it. Id rather know what I'm getting myself into first.

[nikster22]

I'll be in Clayton in the TI the week of June 17th. You are welcome to come up and scare yourself up there.


John, I may just take you up on that! Only a short drive from Syracuse.

[nikster22]

It takes a lot to get thrown out of one. You'll do fine, they can be tons of fun in the lower speeds and then over time you will get the hang of it so I would not be concerned at all. Wear the vest though, and that's no joke. I don't know what the V8 makes for HP or what the top speed would be, perhaps 58-60 perfect conditions?

That was my thinking. We can still enjoy it without going full throttle at all times, and it still fits the bill for getting us out on the water.

I think that V8 is 220hp, since it is not the MPI. I believe the MPI is making 260hp. I'm sure someone else can verify that.

[biggiefl]

If you care for things you won't be going full throttle all the time unless you have a surplus of engines and chiropractors :biggrin.:

Just buy the darn thing and get it over already. All this chit chat means nothing if the boat sells under your nose. Put down $1000 with a contract and wait a month for a trial...maybe less if you catch a break in the weather. I bought a boat at the NY boat show in Jan and took delivery March 12th in NJ. Had to drive it home via the Ocean for about 40miles and then about 30 miles of bay. Cold as a bitch and I don't think we passed 2 other idiots all day. Was a real treat breaking in that new 225 Johnson in 15-20 winds....wow that was fun.

[nikster22]

Just buy the darn thing and get it over already. All this chit chat means nothing if the boat sells under your nose.

I must respectfully disagree with you on that one. There will always be another boat. Another car. Another house. Another deal. The chit chat is why I'm here; to learn. So far, I've learned a lot. So much, in fact, that I have decided I really want to spend some time in one before I commit to a purchase, which I wouldn't have realized had I not been talking to you folks. The boat may sell to someone else who is more prepared, which is fine for me and for them. A deal isn't a deal if I'm not ready for it, and at this point, I don't feel ready. I thought I was, but I'd like to be more certain. That's just me. Like I said earlier, others may go about it differently, but this is how I work. I've got an attic full of stuff that was a "deal" that I bought impulsively. This is a big ticket purchase for us.

[John C in PA]

Just buy the darn thing and get it over already. All this chit chat means nothing if the boat sells under your nose. Put down $1000 with a contract and wait a month for a trial...maybe less if you catch a break in the weather.

Ya beat me to the punch, biggiefl. We're beating this to death.

Nikster, I think the safety and handling issues have been thoroughly discussed. Go and check out the boat and trailer. If you like it and it passes inspection give the seller a refundable deposit (based on a sea trial). Considering its gonna be 55 degrees here (PA) on the weekend if the seller has a place to launch bring your Carhartts and take your sea trial. This boat is optioned up nicely so you don't want to lose it by delaying too long or waiting for everyone on the site to beat you up :jester:. But if you do, or it fails to pass, there are other boats coming up for sale. Also, I checked around and you are correct, its 220 HP.

I expect to be going to Buffalo for my NEXUS interview in early April so if you get a boat by then I may be able to stop by and give you my experiences with my '92.

John C in PA

[biggiefl]

All this bickering made me do a search for classics...not a darn one out there as nice as that 99 for anywhere near the $$. People want $11k for OMC pwered V6's with repainted stripes, etc. I personally think if you pass this one up you will regret it, they don't grow on trees....especially fresh water, kept in a garage, optioned to the hilt, trees. Man up! :smash:

55 degrees this week....drop her in.

[nikster22]

No question this is a solid deal. At this point, I'm questioning whether or not it's exactly what I want. I think I may take some of these folks up on their offers to test before I make a decision. This one may be gone by then and it may be a long time before another comes up. I am OK with that. Might even provided the opportunity to get into an 18'. Who knows?

John - I've responded to your PMs but my sent box shows as being empty so I'm not sure if you're getting them.

[John C in PA]

Nik, got 'em all. Is your mailbox full (and unable to store)?

John C

[nikster22]

Nope, says I have 3 out of 12 possible total. Oh well! At least you got them.

[Greg Guimond]

I'm kind of on the other side. It's always a great deal until the next better deal comes along. The one caveat to that however is I doubt you will be willing to travel any real distance to get another one that is better so if this one is right down the street from you that should count for a lot given it is your first boat. PM me the zip code the 16 is located in. On another note, I would think that motor makes more HP than 220?

[nikster22]

Greg I am happy to hear you say that. I said something similar a few pages back - I've got a house full of stuff that I bought because it was deal of the century and I couldn't let it go - until the next one came along that I wanted even more! You make a good point about the distance, too. That is certainly an attractive attribute to this particular one. They do come up around here occasionally, though (or within the state at least).

I am pretty confident on that HP number. Does seem a little anemic considering the V6 is close to 200? I'm sure torque is higher. And the newer, fuel-injected models jump another 40 HP.

[duckhunter]

According to Mercruiser V8 Service Manual #24 220hp is correct for 5.0L 2bbl Alpha. This is a roller-cam Vortec motor, so should respond well to better breathing intake & carb.

[biggiefl]

I understand but....it is supposably going to be warm this week, etc. If local go for a ride. Decide with THIS boat, not one you wait 2-3 years for. My transoprt costs cost $400 to buy my 22, that is a factor to consider. Sure an 18 is better than a 16, just like a 22 is better than an 18 but that DEPENDS on your needs. This is thread is the main reason I don't post my boats for sale....usually a blatant waste of time.

Like Just Say N20 mentioned.....An 18 is not necessarily better than a 16, just like a 22 compared to an 18, they are bigger. Bigger can be better but that depends on what your needs are and where you run it. Cockpit space on a 16 is not much smaller than my 22 nor are the beams any wider. The main difference between my 22 and a 16 is about 1 foot longer engine compartment and a 5' longer nose and double the gunwale height....not to mention price.

[nikster22]

This is thread is the main reason I don't post my boats for sale....usually a blatant waste of time.

I fail to see how this is a waste of time. You've all still advised me well, regardless of whether or not I end up with this particular boat. Furthermore, this boat has gotten some exposure since I posted pictures, so it may help the seller, too, or someone else looking to buy. Calling it a "blatant waste of time" is what would make me want to stay away from the forum, as I'll be reluctant to ask any more questions if I end up not making a move. So, apologies for wasting your time, but I still appreciate the input from everyone.

[Just Say N20]

Please consider the following;


Pre-screening of ALL posts to the FOR SALE section had been the norm because people had become increasingly negative in their posts with respect to a specific boat.
Pre-screening was not perceived as a positive, so Harbormaster allowed me to Moderate the FOR SALE section.
I believe people enjoy the site more, when they can post in real time.
Personal preferences are just that. For example, a boat listed that has a Volvo outdrive is what it is. Some love them, some don't. There is no need to post comments about it, unless a specific, general question is asked.
This thread contains a LOT of useful information regarding the purchase of a used DONZI classic. This information could be benefitial to anyone looking to make a such a purchase.
The boat being discussed was not listed on this site by the original owner, so they are getting a lot of exposure that they would not have gotten as a result of this thread, regardless of whether or not nikster22 ends up buying it.
As long as things stay positive, good information is being put out there for all to see.


Having said all that, I would encourage everyone to keep their posts appropriate. Posting things that cause people to feel unwelcome is counterproductive to the reason for this site.

[John C in PA]

Having said all that, I would encourage everyone to keep their posts appropriate. Posting things that cause people to feel unwelcome is counterproductive to the reason for this site.

Hear, hear. I agree 100%. BTW: on most if not all of the other boat, gun, etc sites I surf negative comments on the sellers item are deleted and the poster told to take it offline. Great post.

John C in PA

[Just Say N20]

Sure an 18 is better than a 16, just like a 22 is better than an 18 but that DEPENDS on your needs.

I would amend your statement to say a 22 is BIGGER than an 18, just like an 18 is BIGGER than a 16. Like you said, which one is better is totally dependent on what you intend to do with the boat, and where you intend to do it.

I LOVE my 16! It is a total blast to drive, like a high powered, thrill-a-minute sports car. 60 mph in a 16 is more of an adrenaline rush than 115 mph in a 42’ Cig (although, that didn’t stink). And a 16 is just so darned easy. It can be towed with just about any moderate vehicle, and is a breeze for solo launching/use.

The lounge isn’t the best for a 2nd passenger for extended high speed blasts in rough water, but it is awesome for 15 - 30 mph cruises.

It also rocks for 2 people when drifting and enjoying a beverage, because you can talk facing each other.

Water sports (re-boarding aside) are also great for the spotter with the lounge.

Cockpit space, not so much. Storage, with in-floor storage and the bin not used, there is a decent amount for a couple of people. But just as you don’t by a Ferrari for all the trunk space, you buy a 16 for what it does well, and adjust to what it doesn’t. Or buy something else.

I also loved my (2) 18s. For more than 3 people, they are THE way to go over a 16.

22s rock, and will certainly eat up much rougher water than the 16/18. I have reached the point where if it is rough enough for a 22, it is too rough for my 16, and I’m cool with that.