new classic pricing

[mattyboy]

looks like the classics are off the custom list and put on the online order with standard production

fully optioned shipped no export 16 are alphas 18 and 22 are bravo

16 $64,755

18 $74,295

22 377 $102,600

22 8.2 Mag $108,350

22 8.2 Mag HO with ext steering $116,250

http://www.donzimarine.com/Boats/OrderForms/Classic_22.pdf

http://www.donzimarine.com/Boats/OrderForms/Classic_18.pdf

http://www.donzimarine.com/Boats/OrderForms/Classic_16.pdf

[RockyS18]

damn thats a lot!

[bertsboat]

I think they are worth every penny.

[katanna]

The value of all the rest just went up.

[yeller]

Damn...that's big $$!

I guess Carl isn't nuts anymore for putting $100k+ into his 22. It's now just the going rate. :tongue: :D

[Carl C]

WTF? I don't think they will sell many. Yup, mine was a bargain at a 100g.

[mattyboy]

they have the order form for every model the 38 zr with twin 1350s base price before any options is $911,520

[Tidbart]

These prices are meaningless. When was the last time you paid full boat retail for a vehicle?

B

[Capevettes]

Thanks for the price list. That's about where I guessed they would be. They are great boats and well worth it. Glad I bought a used 18 with low hours though :yes:

[VetteLT193]

The prices are the starting point though... Figure 10-20% off is the norm then even @ 20% off you are looking at well over 80k on a new 22 with a Big Block and steering. Add in a trailer, tax, tag, and title and you are back to every bit of 90k. For some reason that doesn't seem near as bad as paying a solid 80k for a 377 Mag 22.

Anyone find the DTS thing odd? Seems strange to me on a Classic.

The pricing isn't all that out of line though with the industry. For years Donzi has been on par with Formula in pricing and they still are at the same price point. FWIW, Formula is offering 25% off right now.

[Offset]

Pride of Muskoka Marina in Roseau had a black 22 in 2010. It was sitting outside sans power. When asked they were pricing it at $90K with a 496.

It was a beautiful boat, wonder where it went.

[RockyS18]

Don't get me wrong they're worth every penny but I was surprised to see triple digits. My 22 was a fraction of that price, new, after sitting for 2 years.

[BUIZILLA]

when you stop and rationalize > the MSRP vs actual negotiated selling cost vs dealer cost vs manufacturing markup vs manufacturing cost, it isn't hard to see a pretty logical pricing permutation ladder

now, can any of us here afford that price tag? that remains to be seen

at least the 16's and 18's didn't START at 80k like was previously rumored..

I wish them well

now, if they would venture back into the Z series deckboat business they could sell more of those than the 16-18-22's combined

I always felt from Day One, Job One, that the 27 should have been a walk through bowrider... when you see the west coast business and how that flourishes and what others do up north it would have been a slam dunk natural... forget the flat deck model with the hard to enter cabin, go for a FAMILY BOAT

just my .02

[MDonziM]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

There might be a little room in there to throw in a free option.:wink:

The classic prices seem a little high, but what kind of production numbers are we really talking about. You can sell 1 or 2 and get that but is that enough to call it a "market" price.

The biggest problem I see to new boat prices is the used mkt. Buy a boat for 100k and its worth 40 in 3yrs? Thats tough and I don't know what changes it. I know someone who just bought a big outerlimits 5-6yrs old with 150 hrs in very good shape for less than 1/5 the real, paid for, new price. Ouch.

[biggiefl]

My Hydra-Sports back in 94 "retailed" for like $36k....I paid $26k OTD and the boat was ordered, not sitting on a lot for a year. I was always puzzled at Boat MSRP prices listed in magazines, you can buy the boat in reality for 2/3's-3/4 what Boating listed it at. $165k Contender you can buy at a show for $115 or so.

Then again I really don't care as I will NEVER buy a new boat again and this just means my 22' went up a few grand in value :hyper:

[bertsboat]

{$pagetext}
That's the reason they stopped making them. They were getting too expensive. The government (used to use a capital G, no more) has regulated boat company's out of affordable products that most people could afford. Now they have reduced their customer base to the more fortunate 2 percent and not they are trying to eliminate 1 percent more from being able to afford things like a Donzi.

[Carl C]

$8,000 extra for steering? Wholesale on the kit is probably $3,000 and an experienced rigger can install it in 3 hours. Wasn't it determined that a 73-75 mph 22C is dangerous without full hydraulic steering? As in, the tiller arm can snap when running hard in big water.

[biggiefl]

That $8k includes 50hp as it is the HO 496. I have always thought anything over 70+ should have external steering.

[Carl C]

"That $8k includes 50hp as it is the HO 496. I have always thought anything over 70+ should have external steering."

You are right. That includes the HO update. It's the new 502 though. The 496 is history.

[VetteLT193]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]now, if they would venture back into the Z series deckboat business they could sell more of those than the 16-18-22's combined[/QUOTE]


There are other brands that make similar deck boats and it's their specialty. Donzi has never been that great at thoughtful layouts / useful setups anyway so you only have the name to go on... tough sell these days IMO. There are 22-24 deck boats out there in I/O, Jet, and OB power that are MSRP mid $40k all over the place that have some very thoughtful layouts and features that Donzi just will never do/have. :frown: On top of that Donzi would be at what, $100k MSRP for a Z23 if they built it now?

In regards to the 27 being a walk through like the west coast boats... I like the fact that my 28 ZXO has a sealed cabin Vs. open like the westies do it. Those boats work well for the desert but wouldn't stand a chance in FL weather. I think the crossover "open" boats is a great niche to fill... a 27 ZRO would be cool as well as the 35 ZRO but it's really tough to justify the $300k+ price tag.

[Ghost]

Biggie beat me to it. I figure every once in a while, maybe some dude with crazy money buys for MSRP and subsidizes everyone else a little. Everyone else buys between 25% and 40% off MSRP, right?

[gcarter]

I've mentioned this before, but there're a lot of fish boats and picnic boats (day boats) in the 22-27 foot range that regularly sell in $150-$200K range.
And the basis is a "quality semi-custom" build reputation. Why can't Donzi use that goal to improve their build reputation and justify higher prices?????

[harbormaster]

"Why can't Donzi use that goal to improve their build reputation and justify higher prices?????"

That will be weird to say the least since they are owned by Baja now :eek:.

I would save my money on the HO 502. They have no forged components (steel crank, powder rods, and hyperexplosion pistons). I would upgrade the entire powerplant after the warranty expires to something more deserving of the Donzi Marque.

[biggiefl]

[QUOTE=harbormaster;632814]"Why can't Donzi use that goal to improve their build reputation and justify higher prices?????"

That will be weird to say the least since they are owned by Baja now :eek:.

I agree on that. I also agree that although my 94 is a nicely built boat and MUCH better than my 87 Baja, it is not Outer Limits or even of Boston Whaler quality. Then again the reason why us classic Whaler owners don't believe in the newer models is the quality has diminished somewhat. For Whaler to make a 17' Montauk exactly to 1980's spec, it would have to be sold for roughly $50k. I assume this is one reason why the Classics are so expensive. Maybe a Miami Vice sequal will boost sales again.

[Carl C]

I am only going to say this now that the company has changed hands. I would not have considered buying another new Donzi. Mine had the hull cracking problem. The wiring is horrendous. Others have complained about paint quality. Mine seems OK. I love my Donzi and I plan to keep it for a long time but I also had to do a lot of work to get it the way I like it and to strengthen the hull and get the power and speed up to where I wanted it. There were issues with the build quality in the later years at Donzi. I posted this picture on another forum and I'll post it here. This is the stock wiring on my boat from the factory. A grd wire at the inst panel wasn't even in the connector. It was only held in place by the heat shrink tube. The interiors are very plain and basic. The Livorsi gauges are not the best quality and their customer service sucks. Unless Baja starts building Classics with chopper guns then I don't see how quality can go anywhere but up.
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/sloppydonziwiring-1.jpg

[gcarter]

Speaking of older Classics, like the Chisholm and Staples era boats, I can name about six things that could have been done to those hulls and decks that would have improved the build quality immeasurably.
The really sad thing is all six would have increased the cost of materials less than $100.00.
In my statement above speaks to the will to improve. Chisholm and Staples didn't have it.
Just because the facility is owned by Baja doesn't mean they couldn't take advantage of building in a (supposedly) state-of-the-art facility and build quality could vary according to brand.

[gcarter]

And Carl, as easy as it is to pick on the AMH boats, they are MUCH, MUCH better than the earlier boats.

[Greg Guimond]

I think George the only way they can be successful is to do exactly what you describe especially considering that the Classics already appeal to a pretty limited buyer segment

[Greg Guimond]

Buizilla said ....."I always felt from Day One, Job One, that the 27 should have been a walk through bowrider... when you see the west coast business and how that flourishes and what others do up north it would have been a slam dunk natural... forget the flat deck model with the hard to enter cabin, go for a FAMILY BOAT just my .02"

Interesting point when you consider the prices that DCB, Howard, and Hallett get for there Open Bow and Mid Cabin products. That said Buizilla, Donzi would have there hands full coming even close to the quality of those builders.

http://dcbperformanceboats.com/goo1600

[Barry Eller]

Seeing this makes me love my 20 year old Donzi by Chris Craft even more....all it costs me is insurance and maintenance...and oh yes....gasoline.

[Carl C]

George, and everyone. I like my boat very much. They took care of my warranty repairs even when they were near bankruptcy. The fact is though that considering what I paid for my boat new I expected a little more. The hull issue was fixed nicely and I did further reinforcement to handle the 525. In this age we need more stowage space for all of the gear that we carry for a day on the water. That needs to be addressed somehow. If they don't want to offer an open area under the bow they could at least make that little tub about 4 times as big. My back seat should not have disintegrated after 5 seasons and indoor storage. The rear seat backs should not blow out. The hatch should not vibrate and should fit better. These are very simple boats with minimal hardware and amenities so where is the money being spent? The 525/XR shorty combo is an excellent match for this boat. It brings it to life and gets it into the thrill zone without being what some would consider too much power. There are plenty of 22s faster than mine. I run 83 any day, 86 best recorded (unless fully loaded and then I can still top 80). This package should be an option. Lots of builders make even faster boats that are smaller. Just because Donzi is owned by Baja does not mean that they will be built the same as a Baja. I won't be ready to move up for awhile but Donzi is back on my short list at this time. Let's wait and see what they build and what they bring to the Miami boat show.

[gcarter]

Carl, the seat back is one of the "Six-Things-That-Could-Have-Been Done". The seat back juncture w/the very narrow deck in front of the engine hatch opening is notoriously weak and the reason AMH installed the loosely mounted "firewall" to support the deck and stop the gel cracking.
This is the reason I reinforced the seat back w/glass reinforced 3/4" plywood bonded to the seat back and bedded into the seat back/deck juncture.
Of course it's also a great place to mount stuff............
It doesn't take much.

[mattyboy]

George,

I would have to dis-agree with your blanket statement on the other era boats, it is not entirely true, I do agree with some builds they could have done the job better, notching the stringers on a x 18 then leaving them unsealed, lighter layup on real early boats. I also agree that those things made right would not have cost all that much in the end.

I have also seen 40 + year old boats take a real beating and not fail. Carl's boat is not even 10 years old and has had to repair the hull twice. Yes did they take a turn away from quality at certain times sure , sorry to say you have now taken on two projects from around that time period.


I have now owned a 67 and a 68 both are very solid boats, my 67 was not babied when i had it and it was tortured after I sold it it was still floating last time i saw it, the 351 and it's replacement didn't hold up so well. With proper care and maint boats made in the 60s and 70s are still solid and strong, then there are the others that didn't live so well ,sure are there basket cases yes. the 67 16 were laid up pretty well there always seems to be a lot of them around.

wonder what the benchmark would be for Donzi against the competition. I often wonder how is my 68 hornet holding up to other plastic boats made in 68?

Carl not picking on you ,you enjoy your boat and have boosted power and run it hard, but others with the same era 22 and stock power had the issue. Quality is not only in longevity but it is also in the 5 P's. Had they planned a little better and said we have to move the stringers what does that entail and what might be issues down the road? the wiring is a different story that should not happen.


It would be nice to see a classic on the upcoming show tour, That would show me that they feel the market for the smaller go fast is still alive. The kid that sees a classic today at a show might be the man who buys my classic when I am old and gray.

The market has changed I have two kids who grew up and loved the 16 but neither would be in the market for one. Joe is now west coast and would want the west coast boat, wild paint, wake board tower ,big stereo . Jamie wants a 48 portofino sunseeker. My point is where and who is the next generation of Donzi classic nutz?
anyone remember "hyper baja" not a lot of young ones around like him anymore.

[Just Say N20]

At the risk of living through a self-induced deluge of less than nice postings directed at me. . . . .:hangum:

. . . I’m going to suggest that it is too bad Dave Hartman isn’t the “NEW DONZI,” and building the new classics.

From what I have seen of their product, they took the time to listen to input, and addressed some issues that were not as well thought out as they could be. Their level of fit/finish would be an improvement.

It is my belief that if they were to start building the 16, 18 & 22 Classics, input such as has been discussed through out this site would be considered and implemented where appropriate. We would be seeing under the deck areas like Carl C has on his boat.

:popcorn:

[gcarter]

Matty, I agree w/you, as far as 16's and 18's go.
Here's my opinion:
I believe the the build schedule was probably the same on all three lines. It seems to be adequate for two of them.
But when you get to the 22's, they're not. Due to the increased length, slightly wider "panels" in the bottom, larger cockpit surfaces, greater power, and higher speeds, they can really suffer.
I've looked at enough 18's, my Minx and others, several 22's to see what the end result can be.

[mattyboy]

George to be fair a lot of models came and went before the 22 or by the time the 22 had a foot hold in 78-79 some were on their way out.
so to judge an era you must take into account not just the 16 18 and 22 but all the models made and their builds.

models prior to the 22 threshold.

14 baby
f 14
16 baby
19 hornets
st tropez
7 meter 22
7 meter 23
corsican
el pescador
spirit
spitfire
doral
sportsman
then count the models on their way out when the 22 gets rolling
gt21
x18
16 skisporter
production stops on the x in 79 and the 16 and gt in 80

[RockyS18]

Matty, don't forget the Dink! :boat:

[mattyboy]

ooops sorry did forget the dink

[RockyS18]

Not to get off topic here, but the Dink really is an interesting part of Donzi. I've never heard anyone talk about it and they even made a sailboat out of it. Are there still many around? Maybe I'll have to start a Dink discussion thread.

[jl1962]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

Are you guys trying to draw me into another sailing thread?

No thanks - I'm on thin enough ice around here!

:rlol:


:boat:

[Ghost]

Mulled this one over for a while, and have to differ on the $150k - $200k Donzi idea. At those prices, even with incredible quality, they'd be crazy-rare.

As has been kicked around, the quality could go up a decent amount without a huge price increase, just the right focus. And Donzi would remain, as it always has been: not cheap by any stretch, but reachable for many, something to which we common men could aspire. Whereas most people have never even heard of a Riva, much less lusted after one.

Markets are what they are, and that's always the case. But unless the market is overwhelming, I'd like to see pricing stay more like typically was.

[mattyboy]

I've only seen a few not sure how many were made pretty neat and unusual piece of Donzi history BTW to stay on topic this boat less the cost off the eggbeater was $445.00 new

[Ghost]

What I don't get and would like to know about the Dink is "WTH were they thinking?" What was the goal? Were they picturing something that would sell many thousands, like the 11 and 13 Whalers?

BTW, I'm not saying anything bad about the Dink, not at all, just that I'm not sure what they were going for with it and am curious if anyone does know. Or wants to speculate. Or, just post a picture of a hot woman.

[mattyboy]

I guess like the medalion jet and regazza was a shot and getting into the real entry level first time boat buyer . I think the sail boat dink was to compete with the sunfish that gained popularity about the same time mid 70's i did the sunfish thing once JUST ONCE.

[Rob M]

Probably they also saw a potential market for a big boat/small yacht tender?

[gcarter]

Matty, I was referring to Classics that were built next to each other in the same facility. My experience is the smaller boats fared better.

[mattyboy]

interesting they did the same on baja the entry level 23 outlaw seems to have more options and motor choices as well

http://www.bajamarine.com/Boats/OrderForms/Outlaw23.pdf

[VetteLT193]

I don't think Donzi has ever really had a success at entering the entry level market. Take the Medallion Jet for example. It came out after and in response to other Jet boats at the time including the Sea Doo Speedster / Sportster.

I had a 1994 Speedster and it is/was better in every way than the Donzi. The power plants were smooth and vibration free, handling better, ride better, faster, quicker, more comfortable, more usable, more thought out in literally every aspect.

I think the only reason why any of the medallion line worked is because they were basically copies of successful boats of the era...

Let's face it... the ZR line is pretty cool but basically in direct competition with some really stable names like Cigarette. My gut says the ZX line is the one that supported Donzi through many years because it fills a market that is basically untouched. If you wanted a roomy, fast, functional boat there was nothing (and I don't think there is anything currently) out there to compete with the ZX line. The 33ZX is the perfect example. I can tell you based on used boats out there that they sold the heck out of the 33. Show me competition that can run fast 70++ and still has a head, A/C, heat, galley (not large, but big enough for overnighting and a tax write off) and looks like a true High Performance boat.

It fills the gap that Buiz. was touching on but it's less extreme. As a family guy I can't sell my wife on a ZR. Not gonna happen. I can sell her on a Formula SS or PC no problem but they don't have the performance that I really would like. The ZX line is the compromise. I have shown them to her a few times and she likes them and would certainly go for one... Her and the kids get a nice swim platform, A/C, head, refrigerator and I get the cool boat with some speed.

My idea of a Donzi family boat is a 29-30 foot ZX with a slightly shrunken 33 cabin. A/C, head, microwave, one burner cooktop and refrigerator. Make the A/C DC powered or put in a small generator. the new Volvo 380HP small blocks would suit it just fine. Make the swim platform usable and not 2 feet out of the water. DONE. That boat, if they ever made it, would be the 'family' version of a Donzi. Fast, reliable, and usable for day trips and maybe an overnighter.

The competition to that boat is the Formula 290 SS. If you want a slower more practical boat you can get the 290 but if you want performance with some functionality you can go Donzi.

[mattyboy]

I think they feel the baja islander and the performance are the answer to that . so under 23 feet you're in a donzi over 35 feet you're in a donzi between that you're in a baja. if you look at the fountain page it looks like they are up in the air, the only non repetitive models would be the express cruisers , military patrol, and the 47 lightning? wonder if they will offer anything for racing from any of the 3 companies.

[biggiefl]

The Dink in my opinion was not for first time buyers, it was for first time boaters. Dad comes into the shop to get his Donzi serviced and sees the Dink on the floor for $400 and the kids get a X-Mas gift and learn how to boat. Whaler did the same but they also were great tenders. 1) because they are so friggin stable and track well if towed. 2) if they flipped or ? they floated. The Dink would Sink which is not good if it is your LIFE RAFT.

[VetteLT193]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]I think they feel the baja islander and the performance are the answer to that . so under 23 feet you're in a donzi over 35 feet you're in a donzi between that you're in a baja. if you look at the fountain page it looks like they are up in the air, the only non repetitive models would be the express cruisers , military patrol, and the 47 lightning? wonder if they will offer anything for racing from any of the 3 companies.[/QUOTE]

The islander might compete at some level to the Formula Bowrider but Baja has nothing in its lineup that competes to any of the old ZX line (excluding the 28). Fountain certainly doesn't have anything that competes with the ZX line either. They did have the monster fast performance line for a bit that sorta crossed lines with the 45 ZX but that's about it.

The manufacturers that weathered the storm the best seem to be in the well rigged performance cruiser arena. Look at Cobalt, they seem to be doing better than ever living in the same category as Formula. Donzi used to live in the more aggressive, but not too aggressive, market in the neighborhood of Formula. The last 5 years they are in the high end ultra-fast market and are sucking wind.

I know it's partially the economy but Donzi dropping the ZX line and putting the efforts into the ZR line coincides pretty well with the company's financial hardships. I'm sure they will say 'they weren't selling' is the reason... but a BIG part of the reason they weren't selling is the hulls / designs needed updating but they spent the money on the ZR line instead. Meanwhile Formula and Cobalt, who both weathered the storm, were putting out new models in the performance/luxury/family market including entirely new lines of products geared specifically towards the 'Family Performance' buyer (See the Formula FX line). Donzi could easily have revamped the ZX line to compete as a better performing more aggressive version of this. I still think they should go that route and am scratching my head that they aren't.

[roadtrip se]

Makes the Ilmor 22 at $84K quite the steal in comparison. Pretty much what I said when it came up for sale!

[joseph m. hahnl]

AHHHHH!!!!! Marketing Idea:idea: List Donzi at an unreasonably high price at the verge of a recession. Sell More Bajas :kingme:



I wonder what the lead time is on one?

[joseph m. hahnl]

Let's face it... the ZR line is pretty cool but basically in direct competition with some really stable names like Cigarette. My gut says the ZX line is the one that supported Donzi through many years because it fills a market that is basically untouched. If you wanted a roomy, fast, functional boat there was nothing (and I don't think there is anything currently) out there to compete with the ZX line. The 33ZX is the perfect example. I can tell you based on used boats out there that they sold the heck out of the 33. Show me competition that can run fast 70++ and still has a head, A/C, heat, galley (not large, but big enough for overnighting and a tax write off) and looks like a true High Performance boat.


.


I would disagree. The Zr is the next generation Z tech Hull .Which is highly modified/refined to elimnate problems inherent in past stepped hulls such as the James Bond 007:wink: driver eject system. The Zr is also race proven time and time again. Their many titles prove they're a leader in hull inovation and stand their own while keeping the ankle biters at bay:kingme:

I.m sure there is a line out the door for the ZR 38C race boats. Hence the near $1M price tag



Talking used, a Zx does a good job, a Zr with it's college education will still allways have the upper hand :superman:


I agree that the big beam Zx's are better suited for a 70 Mph weekender.

[Carl C]

There are a lot of ZRs up here on the big lakes. I'm sad to see the 27 go because I think that one with a 700SCi would be perfect for me. A true but minimal cabin for overnighting and a smallish single that I could afford to tow, insure and run.

[mattyboy]

did you guys look at the baja pricing??? verge of recession??????????????????????????????

I just optioned out the 23 outlaw with the biggest motor steering and tabs ,swim paltform and no graphics came it at 124K msrp shipped??????

at every show I have been to they always have a show special on a baja either the 20 or a 25 ish outlaw at prices that would attract the first time buyer as well as the family guy who had an older sea ray or 4 winns that he has repowered and try to make it faster. so I would imagine that the 23 will be seen on the show tour at show prices.

had a friend who bought an outlaw new back in the late 90's all white not a bad looking boat 502 bravo had more problems with the merc parts than the boat itself.

pretty funny people taking shots at baja when baja was finacially sound enough to buy Donzi Fountain and pro line which were on the ballz of their azz.


the marinas by me just got the new boat shipments for the upcoming NY show full of go fast toons and glass deck/walk thru/bow riders. that is what sells here closer to the coast I am sure the CC/fish boats are more the rage.


I wonder how a fountain fan will feel about buying a reggie-less fountain??? will values of the used older reggie boats go up or will they go to RF boats ?? if that is still a go? haven't heard any news on reggie lately.

edit : alot had to do with financing back then too I haven't been to a show since the economy tanked but back then they had signs ,always had a low monthly payment albeit it was for like 20 yrs. has money losened up??

[gcarter]

​So, are there any Donzi dealers in existence?????
Maybe there are, if they also happen to be a Baja deale

​OTOH, if there's not a dealer network, and everything is handled through the factory, maybe there'd be some money to be saved?????????????????????????

[joseph m. hahnl]

pretty funny people taking shots at baja when baja was finacially sound enough to buy Donzi Fountain and pro line which were on the ballz of their azz.



BAJA HUMBUG. :o






http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4588572072609600&pid=1.7&w=183&h=142&c=7&rs=1

[VetteLT193]

The reason why Baja was "financially stable" enough to buy Donzi, Fountain, etc. has nothing to do with Baja's great brand, business concepts, or anything else. It has to do with a paperwork issue that kept them out of bankruptcy.

The way I think this has gone is Liberty ended up getting out of a lot of debt by having Donzi, Fountain, and Pro Line go under then buying them back under the Baja name for pennies on the dollar. Baja ended up being the lucky duck of the group because it managed to get out from bankruptcy from what sounds like a technicality.

If you want your mind blown: look up the corporation structure of Liberty, Donzi, AMH, a few other random companies / LLC's / people / etc. There are over a dozen companies / LLC's, owners, percentage share, etc.


As for Baja dealers, here is the page that says they have a few... http://www.bajamarine.com/_Dealer_Locator.html I poked around a bit and it appears that the Miami dealer has at least one Baja in stock.