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View Full Version : 18' vs 22'



Pat McPherson
10-24-2012, 07:32 PM
I've been hunting for a 22' for a few weeks now and may pull the trigger soon. Ran into an old friend that was running his 18 last weekend. He told me he just sold his 22 and thought that his 18 runs the rough just as good and is a much better value being that it runs 70 with just a stock small block. I also heard from another fellow tonight telling me the same.
I did own a 1975 18 classic back in the mid 90s and moved up to a 20 Minx after. I thought those 2 boats ran about the same but 2' is not a big difference.
Thoughts on the 18 vs the 22?:confused:

gcarter
10-24-2012, 08:08 PM
The answer is, 'How big is your lake, or bay, or ocean?"
Your friend was speaking for himself.

The Hedgehog
10-24-2012, 08:08 PM
It does not run just the same. You feel more secure in a 22.

That being said....I would NOT sell my 18. It drives like a crazy go cart on steroids and I don't even have one of the fast ones.

Ghost
10-24-2012, 08:36 PM
Pat,

I agree with all the above comments. If you can describe where you wish to boat I think people can better answer your question. And since you had an 18, all you need to know is about 22Cs will handle the water.

Somewhere around here I *think* I recall a pretty good thread on this subject, but I didn't search enough to find it. Maybe use go-cart as a keyword. EDIT: I just tried that and didn't find it.

Regards,

Mike

1996Z15
10-25-2012, 01:38 PM
My first experience with a Donzi was driving my friends 18 equipped with a 455 Olds Berkeley Jet combination. Quite a few years later I was fortunate enough to purchase my own Donzi, a 20' Minx.

Personally, I thought the 18' was more fun to drive and, like others have said, felt like a go cart. The Minx didn't provide the same feeling to speed although I did prefer how the Minx gave the feeling of sitting in the boat as compared to the 18 which felt like I was sitting on the boat.

Never driven in a 22' but, I would imagine it would handle rough water a little better than the 18'

Tidbart
10-25-2012, 04:06 PM
I have had both. They both move fast but the extra four feet and higher freeboard make a huge difference in rough water. There are alot of other differences also, like workspace in the engine compartment.

Bob

silverghost
10-25-2012, 08:36 PM
You really cannot compare the handling of a Berkeley/Olds 455 jet drive Donzi 18 to a more common I/O drive 18
We had a jet drive Donzi X-18 for three years and it is best used as a fairly flat water~ bay or lake boat. It will handle very well in that application.
If you use the Donzi 18 hull in big rough choppy waters the I/O 18, or V-Drive 18 is what you really need.
A jet drive, V-Drive, and I/O drive on the Donzi 18 rounded keel hull all ride & handle quite differently.
I have no seat time in a Donzi 22 to compare it to the Donzi 18 I/O however.

Pat McPherson
10-25-2012, 08:39 PM
We do 80-90% of our boating on the CT River and 10-20% in LI Sound so I believe it will be better to have the larger boat.
I've not ridden in a 22' Classic yet, but I've owned a 24' Pantera and a 24' Superboat. Guessing the ride is simmilar being the a 22' Donzi is only 10" shorter (22'8" vs 23'6"). Thoughts?
How about towing the kids around on a tube or pulling a skier? I know the 18' Classic is great for these activities, but I'm thinking the 22' is too big for skiing. I tried skiing behind my Pantera and the wake was too big at 30mph.

mattyboy
10-25-2012, 08:57 PM
the 22 is going to have a more on the boat feel than a superboat 24 and pantera 24 which are standup/sit down boats. the 18 will feel like a 300 hp surfboard compared to the 24s.

mattyboy
10-26-2012, 07:16 AM
my limited time behind the wheel of a 22 felt sluggish in response and feel compared to it's smaller siblings. not to say it was slow to respond just not as quick but having that longer nose and more stable platform will add a ton comfort when out on the sound when it kicks up.

I am sure with a little work you could get the 22 to be setup for water sports , a prop designed more for planning and pulling over top end , tabs would help get on plane and keep the nose down going slower while tubing and a longer rope might also help

CHACHI
10-26-2012, 07:23 AM
I have had both a 20' MINX and I now own a 22. I boat on the St.Lawrence River, and I can tell you, when that water kicks up, I want a 38'.

Ask Mike O about the SLR kicking up in a small boat.

Ken

mattyboy
10-26-2012, 07:42 AM
[ QUOTE=Chachi]
I have had both a 20' MINX and I now own a 22. I boat on the St.Lawrence River, and I can tell you, when that water kicks up, I want a 38'.

Ask Mike O about the SLR kicking up in a small boat.

Ken [/QUOTE]


can I get an Amen on that

zzzzzz
10-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Hi Pat,
This is Tom from wallingford we spoke on the phone at lenth about the suprs. I have an 05 22 classic 496 HO and use it on Gardner lake in salem . I don't want to kill anything here but a 22 classic is NOT ideal for towing tubes or skiing just because there is not a ladder or pad on the hatch not that you couldn't add one. I;ve had it on the river a time or two and it handles it OK with big cruisers and such. Your welcome to go look at it for reference at OP anytime.

osur866
10-26-2012, 11:46 AM
All depends as stated above on your objective, with that said I love the 18 for many reasons.

1) it is more responsive than the 22's but that also requires you to really drive them, more the seat of the pants style.

2) It's been my expereience that speed is much different in the 2 above mentioned boats 18 vs 22 90 to me in a 22 felt like 55 in the 18 you just dont feel the speed in the 22 as you do in the 18.

3) the 22 is more of a sporty 4 door with a hemi as the 18 is, well more like a 2 door sports car, the 22 is more forgiving and you don't have to be as quick on your gane as the 18.

4) Fun factor IMO hands down if you correctly set up your 18 it will be off the chart fun, not taking anything away from the 22's but the 18's are a complete blast to fly and throw around.

5) In rougher water the 22 will do better no doubt the 18 requires a little man handeling in rougher water and is a bit rougher ride.

6) Freeboard the 18 & 16 you feel as tho your riding ON top of the boat where as the 22 you have more of a down IN the boat feel, can be a little un nerving for some in the 18 at higher speeds or in rougher water.

7) Cockpit, no doubt more room in the 22's over the 18's if your a bigger guy the 16 & 18's are a little tight for some and space to stow things. With all that said did I mention I LOVE my 18 and like 18 will never part with her, I boat on a few smaller lakes and also boat at at lake of the ozarks and do 2 oker runs a year there but I'm a little crazy for most. Drive both and decide for yourself I don't think you could go wrong either way good luck with your search.

Steve

Just Say N20
10-26-2012, 12:05 PM
How about towing the kids around on a tube or pulling a skier? I know the 18' Classic is great for these activities, but I'm thinking the 22' is too big for skiing. I tried skiing behind my Pantera and the wake was too big at 30mph.


zzzzzz brings up an excellent point for ALL the classics. Getting back into the boat is difficult at best. DONZI owners being mostly a meticulous group keep things beautifully polished and waxed. As such, climbing up the outdrive onto the hatch to get back into the boat is what I would call a “high risk” action.

If you are going to try and haul someone into the cockpit over the side, the lower freeboard of an 18 will make that task somewhat easier.

But remember, the 16, 18 & 22 are all 24 degree deadrise hulls, and as such are going to make quite a wake. I guess it depends on WHO (young kids, teens, young adults?) you are pulling, and on what.

The last item to remember is that the Classics are designed as performance sport boats. They perform that task very well. However, on board storage is NOT a strong point (Carl C as a notable exception). If you are working from a dock, or another boat that can “store” all the water toys when not in use, great. If you are going to have to haul stuff around with you, none of the Classics will do that very well.

biggiefl
10-26-2012, 12:17 PM
This is almost a Ford/Chevy debate :banghead:

If I lived on a lake or river I might have bought an 18. Since I live on Tampa Bay which can go from glass to 5' crap in minutes, it would not be a good choice. Since I am married an 18 is pretty much out of the question. An 18 on LI sound could lead to divorce. Since I am in my 40's and not getting younger I think I made the right choice with the 22. Even the 22 only has room for 4 adults and 1 small cooler, it is SMALL. Although considered tame by 18 owners, she is a friggin handfull compared to my 24 Baja. Lastly although the 18's are great looking and cool, 22's are sexy. Nothing oozes sexyness more than a 22 classic. People that own $500k poker run boats stare at my boat and tell me how gorgeous it is and how they always wanted one, etc. However in the right place and for the right thrill, an 18 wins hands down in that category. Drive one and see for yourself.

osur866
10-26-2012, 01:47 PM
18 in flight
734997350073501
The 18's handle big water pretty good too :tooth: If you look in pic two theres a pretty good roller.

Pismo
10-28-2012, 04:30 PM
18 is a great rough water boat for an 18 foot boat but a 22 will be even better.

Carl C
10-28-2012, 04:49 PM
[ QUOTE] However, on board storage is NOT a strong point (Carl C as a notable exception).[/QUOTE] I just happened to catch that! I love it! The 22s respond well to power. Plenty off us have very well dialed in rigs running in the 80s & 90s. You just have to throw more power at 'em. I boat on the Great Lakes and love my 22. Mine runs low to mid 80s.

silverghost
11-07-2012, 02:27 AM
ADAM (Lively-one)
If you are still considering a Donzi 22 Berkeley Jet Drive build-up project like you stated on the Other Donzi forum's thread you started.

~ There has been a Donzi 22 engine & driveless Blackhawk hull "For Sale" in MD. for some time now.
It is listed on the Donzi boats For Sale section of this foum~~You need to dig back among the older listings to find it.
Last I saw the listing it was offered very cheaply for a 22 hull , windshield , & deck.
I assume it is still "For Sale" ?
If not others in the know will correct me .

If you really want to build a Donzi 22 Berkeley jet project this may be a very good, and fairly inexpensive, 22 hull to experiment with adding Berkeley water jet drive power.

Pismo
11-07-2012, 06:32 AM
A Berkley jet 22 would be awesome

woobs
11-07-2012, 07:46 AM
22 Blackhawk Project Hull
~ There has been a Donzi 22 engine & driveless Blackhawk hull "For Sale" in MD. for some time now.
It is listed on the Donzi boats For Sale section of this foum~~You need to dig back among the older listings to find it.
Last I saw the listing it was offered very cheaply for a 22 hull , windshield , & deck.
I assume it is still "For Sale" ?
If not others in the know will correct me .


Last I spoke to him, it was a firm $ 6000.00 and there's a story that goes with that boat. The hull is all cleaned out and ready to start the process though.

Lively-one
11-09-2012, 01:30 AM
Thanks Brad...not sure about the Blackhawk hull. I have heard/read they can be kind of a handful. I am pretty certain I want to stick to a traditional 22 hull whether I ultimately go with a jet or prop.

Thanks for the additional info on that hull as well Sean.

mattyboy
11-09-2012, 06:20 AM
one thing to keep in mind a 22 is a setup sensitive hull , I am not sure if a jet would be awesome or a dud . the one and only outboard never really shined it was converted to an i/o . I see the KLM's arney boat is also for sale as a un powered project. most seem to go for the high hp shorty route and seem to be happy with them

Carl C
11-09-2012, 09:18 AM
I can't see a jet drive working on a 22C for many reasons...

silverghost
11-09-2012, 12:00 PM
There has been a 2+3 Hornet/Berkeley jet for sale in NJ, and also two GT 21/Berkeley jets listed "for sale" in the past year.
There are photos of the for sale listings somewhere on this , and the other Forum.

Also Axel in Germany's GT 21 was once jet drive powered.
It was un-powered & driveless when he first bought his project. He later had to fill in the big pump water intake hole when he later swapped to an I/O drive.
All these boats seem to have been fairly big & heavy hulls for a single engine water jet power.

I have no idea how well they performed ?

Were all these jet drive packages above orignally Donzi factory built ?
The factory build records might help tell us this ?

mattyboy
11-09-2012, 03:10 PM
so Pat how is the search going?

joseph m. hahnl
11-10-2012, 11:16 AM
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny,_meeny,_miny,_moe)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73617&thumb=1&d=1352527780 (http://www.donzi.net/forums/album.php?albumid=157&attachmentid=73617) http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73611&thumb=1&d=1352527349 (http://www.donzi.net/forums/album.php?albumid=157&attachmentid=73611)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73617&d=1352527780 (http://www.donzi.net/forums/album.php?albumid=157&attachmentid=73616) http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73611&d=1352527349 (http://www.donzi.net/forums/album.php?albumid=157&attachmentid=73610)

Tony
11-14-2012, 07:48 PM
Ask Mike O about the SLR kicking up in a small boat.

Ken


Or, ask Ken about the SLR kicking up in a 22' boat!!!

Pat McPherson
11-14-2012, 08:36 PM
Update:
I went with cash in hand to buy an 86 22' with smallblock last Friday but there were issues with the trailer. The hull may be OK, but I couldn't take the chance and I knew the fellow wasn't going to drop the price any farther.
There is a 1996 with a 502 in MD that I would have already bought, if it was closer or I could find the time to make the trip.
Any leads on boats in the north east would be appriciated...:cool:

mario
11-14-2012, 08:53 PM
73649pat come get this one its still here im very close to putting the 502 back in but now im winterizing my but off i hope to have it up and running in few weeks 15000.00 with eng out or 17500.00 up and running no trailer with it 73648

Pat McPherson
11-14-2012, 09:17 PM
Thanks guys. I'm narrowing in on wanting a standard 22'C with alpha or bravo drive. White hull with with any color stripes or a blue or yellow hull...:cool!:

donzidon
11-14-2012, 10:37 PM
but ....
I have a 1972 X-18 that I run in the ocean in Maine. Only issue is if you face a big wave (usually a wake), you have to jump it. If you try to stop, the bow is narrow and there is not enough beam to lift it over the wave. On occasion, I have come very close to having it in my lap with some concern about getting swamped (the open bow in front of the cockpit is not an ideal design feature here). Jumping the wave can be quite exciting and a bit hairy (think 10 feet of elevation or thereabouts). Good news is that the hull is just great for soft landings. Freeboard is very low, so you really feel the speed. Gas tank is pretty small at 25 gallons, and storage space is very limtied.
Ride is fantastic and fun, but it is really more of a lake and river boat.

CHACHI
11-16-2012, 06:30 AM
Tony, I am trying to let that go.

Ken

Carl C
11-16-2012, 07:30 AM
[ QUOTE]Thanks guys. I'm narrowing in on wanting a standard 22'C with alpha or bravo drive. White hull with with any color stripes or a blue or yellow hull...:cool!:[/QUOTE]

Good choice IMO. The yellow ones are faster BTW.........

joseph m. hahnl
11-16-2012, 07:50 AM
Good choice IMO. The yellow ones are faster BTW.........

Yellow plus blue equals green. and we all know there is a lot of green in your 22:wink:


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66178&thumb=1&d=1211551198 http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4679225916653627&pid=1.7&w=95&h=141&c=7&rs=1 http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66821&thumb=1&d=1241556528http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4995756417548624&pid=1.7&w=126&h=155&c=7&rs=1 (http://www.donzi.net/images/search?q=image+of+a+plus+sign&id=01A900E335CB2B8D01B0B66885FCFADB67E0102B&FORM=IQFRBA)http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4618490807648381&pid=1.7&w=250&h=102&c=7&rs=1

Carl C
11-16-2012, 08:20 AM
Joe, yes, I put a lot of money and work into putting together the boat that I want and deserve at this point in my life. Other's have put more money into a 22C, Ted and Mick come to mind. People tell me that I'm crazy because I could have so much more boat for $95,000. I guess I could, but I couldn't afford to store it indoors, tow it, fuel it, or insure it. I just wish I had a real cabin sometimes because I love overnighting on the boat. I've modified mine so that I can sleep on it but it's not exactly first class accommodations. Well, maybe in a way it is! As long as there are facilities at the dock. :)

joseph m. hahnl
11-16-2012, 09:24 AM
Carl: this says it all!:propeller:



http://www.donzi.net/forums/image.php?u=4897&type=sigpic&dateline=1352604968

Carl C
11-16-2012, 09:48 AM
Everyone needs helicopter pics. :)

gcarter
11-16-2012, 11:12 AM
The Minx wasn't yellow, but I had a helicopter picture of it:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24251&d=1159754530

Carl C
11-16-2012, 11:41 AM
[ QUOTE]The Minx wasn't yellow, but I had a helicopter picture of it:[/QUOTE]

That's a great picture. So how much do you think you will have in the Testerossa when it's done? Not including your own labor. How much actual expense? I'm thinking that you're going to have to sell it for close to $100,000.

mattyboy
11-16-2012, 12:43 PM
That's the perfect name for the boat George
"In The Red"

gcarter
11-16-2012, 02:19 PM
Hey Matty, that's a good name!

Fortunately, over the 5-1/2 years, it's been a "Pay As You Go" project.
It's all mine, and almost finished.

jl1962
11-16-2012, 02:30 PM
How about:
"Pay-Pal" or "Add to Cart" ?

Seriously - looks great, George.

mattyboy
11-17-2012, 06:29 AM
Pat

The road trip is half the fun when getting a boat expanding your search by a few road hours can be well worth it.

Wet Vette
11-17-2012, 09:41 AM
i have had an 18 since 1972. the boat has been more fun than i can imagine. to me who runs at the New Jersey shore, it is the perfect boat. I took it apart to replace the tank and have had problems replacing stringers(another entire story). toward the end of the summer i purchased an 04 -22' aniversery edition because i couldn't go thru a summer without a Donzi. the 22 is a totally different boating experiance. it's not as instintive or as much fun.

i have had a problem with some porpoising as well as some handling issues with the 22. the boat has a mirage plus prop now and i'm told that prop is most if not all the problem. bblades is going to rework the mirage and i'm talking to poodle about a different prop.

the 22 is much better in chop and has a dryer ride. it has some of that ingreadiat X that make it fun but not as much of it as an 18 has.

i will get thru the issues with my 18 and it will return! good fiberglass guys are hard to find.

BUIZILLA
11-17-2012, 09:38 PM
a few years back I ran the exact same boat as yours in LG with a M+ 25 prop

it was horrendous

I put a 25 Turbo on it that day and it was absolutely night and day, totally on rails...

amazing difference

you won't be sorry to do that