496HO to 502 [Archive] - The Donzi Registry

yeller

04-05-2012, 01:45 AM

I've hesitated posting my engine swap because I didn't want to jinx it. I don't actually have the engine yet, but I have negotiated a price and we have an agreement (but no $ has changed hands yet). Carl was kind enough to check the motor out for me. The seller just needs to change a couple things and then it's going to the dyno. If all goes well...which I suspect it will, it should ship out in a couple weeks.

The other reason I hesitated posting was I work a lot slower and don't do nearly as good work as others here, so I might just embarass myself. :boggled: Then I figured......what the hell......I've embarassed myself plenty of times, once more surely can't hurt. :lookaroun:

Anyways, for those that don't know, I cooked my Procharged 496HO last year. Wasn't the S/C or engine's fault. I loved that motor. It ran great. It was my stupidity that killed it. Originally I planned to rebuild it, but a parts (delivery) mix up caused me to miss the end of the season, so I changed course and decided to put in a 502
After not finding what I want, Fogducker called me because he located an ultra low hour 496 near me. Took a look and purchased it. It was missing a few parts, but I could combine the 2 motors and be back on the water for cheap. Well, because I work soooo slow, it sat for a couple months and recently a previous contact called me about his 502. One thing lead to another......and now I'm back to a 502. Procharged of course!

Summers fast approaching and besides the motor swap, I still need to do some glass work and install my new tabs. I also figured while I'm at it I'll relocate the steering rams to line up better with the Blackhawk. Not too big a deal for a lot of folks here, but free time is hard to come by for me.

yeller

04-05-2012, 02:17 AM

A few pics of the start.

Stripped most everything off the transom. Figured while I was at it, I'd relocate the steering rams to line up better with the Blackhawk. I also removed the Donzi logos off the side. I plan on putting the S/S Donzi letters on. I plan on adding a couple more layers of glass in the bilge as well as on the transom for the new trim tabs.

In the bilge pic, you can see the "stiffeners" that were installed as part of Donzi's warranty repair schedule. Ever since I had the repair done, I would always take on some water. Well, when I took off the transom assembly, I found out why. Turns out the shop that did the repair didn't install the transom assembly gasket or use any sealant. :bonk:

I included a pic of the transum thickness for those that are interested. The transom is the same thickness all the way across.

On a side note, I have never been able to find a conclusive aticle on when Merc stopped using forged cranks in the 496 Mag/HO. Most posts I find state forged cranks were only used in 01's and possibly 02's. I did find one post where a guy stated they changed to cast in 04. My engine seems to support him. The crank in my 496HO is forged and although the boat is an 04, the motor easily could have been built in 03.
Mute point for me now though......as I toasted the crank. Seems forged doesn't do much better than cast without oil. :kingme:

yeller

04-05-2012, 02:45 AM

This is the original dyno sheet from the 502 I have coming. This was done with the motor running a MEFI 1 and boost referenced fuel system. The seller is tossing the boost referenced system and installing a MEFI 3 with a proper boost map. I suspect it should be able to be tuned to squeak a few more ponies out of it.

70797

On a dyno, I've never understood the difference between the HP/TQ vs Corrected HP/TQ. Can anyone enlighten me?

osur866

04-05-2012, 04:35 AM

Is the X going up while it's all apart for the proper X of the Blackhawk?
I wouldn't think it'd be much more work with all your doing.

Pismo

04-05-2012, 09:11 AM

Great photos, great thread, all looks cool, keep us informed, good luck.

MDonziM

04-05-2012, 03:37 PM

Yeller,

What tabs are you switching to? Your steering mount area looks low to me , I can't get to my boat to compare , but i'm pretty sure mine mount above the boot stripe. My reason for mentioning is I took off my bennetts 2 yrs ago and I have had a difficult time finding tabs that would fit in my application. I finally arrived at a set of eddie marine sponson tabs but had to get the rams customised by them to get an effective operating range. I couldn't find a tab with transom plates that would fit around my steering.

- Marshall

zelatore

04-05-2012, 07:48 PM

The steering rams are mounted a little lower than my Ziegers, but only by an inch or so. Mine are roughly centered on the top accent stripe of the boot stripe.

yeller

04-06-2012, 11:12 AM

To answer a few questions:

I will not be raising the X. Although the BH would work much better, I don't want to build the boat around a drive that is out of production and difficult to get parts for. I have no idea how long I'll keep the BH on.

Steering rams are a low because I wanted to attach the rams to the bottom of the wing plate. Most attach their rams to the top side. Mounting on the bottom side worked fine for the Bravo, but I have no choice but to mount on the top side with the BH. Rams hit the drive and I can't make them fit on the bottom. By moving them up, I can keep the rams level regardless of which drive I use. I wouldn't bother with this exercise, except I'm already doing transom work and a couple more hole repairs is no big deal.

Tabs are going to be 24" Eddie Marine's. They will fit where I want them, but I do have a problem with the curvature of the transom. With one side of the mounting plate snug against the transom, the other side has close to 1/4" gap. Haven't fully decided how I'm going to solve this problem

roadtrip se

04-06-2012, 11:36 AM

I believe the adjusted readings are for ideal temperature, humidity and barometric settings, typically at sea level and 60 degrees.
The kind of dyno and the operator can have a big impact on what the number looks like, too. Someone more knowledgable than me will step in here, but I have looked at a few of these lately, and it really is a component of your engine builder, too.

A couple of observations, that is a very flat torque curve and it drops quickly. It would be interesting to see how it comes up from 3000 RPMS to get a bigger picture. Also, it peaks at 4400 and drops six to seven percentage points at the RPM where you will most likely prop it at just less than 4800 rpms. On mine, this torque drop is about 2 points, with a peak at just under 5000 and propped at 5400, as a comparison. I would think you could prop for a little more peak RPMs, if they are there, especially with the 31 BH props. The torque curve on mine drops so gradually that I can spin all they way to 6000, if I want to.

I would spend the time to have the engine dynoed with the new MEFI, once you get it. Fuel delivery and timing would be my primary concerns. This needs to be done by someone who can tune the MEFI on the motor on the dyno stand. The ship the ECM to a tuner and hope they got it right method might get you there, but I think you know what happens if you don't.

If you don't have someone there that can do this, it might be worth buying some dyno and tuning time from Brian, here in Detroit, before the motor comes your way. You will know where the thing stands for sure, if he gets his hands on it.

BUIZILLA

04-06-2012, 01:53 PM

i'm having a little problem with that dyno sheet... :lookaroun:

yeller

04-06-2012, 05:49 PM

RT, thanks for the breakdown. The motor will be getting tuned on dyno with the new MEFI. I'm hoping to get it sent to Crockett.

Buizilla, that comment is suppose to help me how? You're a wealth of knowledge, but I've never understood why you always have to post in riddles. :confused:

BUIZILLA

04-06-2012, 06:10 PM

LOL

riddle me this > assuming the C.A.T. stands for charge air temp(?) how the hell did they get it to 39*F and keep it there perfectly? do they own Ready Ice Co.? I don't think you'll be in 39* real world water temp will you?

and all this was at -.2 what?

there's a couple more things, but we'll start there, until it's dynoed again..

yeller

04-06-2012, 10:49 PM

Thanks Buiz. Now why couldn't you have said that in the first place. :wavey: I didn't know what 39deg was measuring. Until you posted -.2psi, my brain was thinking vacuum (which of course isn't measured in psi). So...thinking it was vacuum, I assumed it was at negative because it's a boosted motor and the dyno gauge couldn't read it. Yes, seems like a stupid interpretation now, but............ahh.....I have no but........it was stupid. :bonk:

RT, missed the part of your post suggesting Brian dyno the motor. Great idea. It was the seller that said he would send it to Crockett, but I'd rather it go to someone that is known to members here.

roadtrip se

04-08-2012, 06:45 PM

I'm local to TC. Way over-rated, way over-priced, and his dyno-sheets, well, you know what I am going to say next...
Oh, and if he can be bothererd to return a phone at all, Glenn might get in. There are other places in Detroit that can get the job done.

ralph crocker

04-08-2012, 07:34 PM

I am new to this performance boat stuff. Last year I was budgeting a pretty good $ project. I went to see Brian he was right on the money spent time with me. I could not get thru to TC. When I did I advised I had sent an email and they advised they get too many to go thru. He promised to get back to me with quote but I never heard from him. I called once to follow up he didn't call back.. When a project I can follow thru with does come up it will go to Bryan!

yeller

04-09-2012, 12:17 AM

Hope everyone had a great Easter!

I spent most of the day hunched over in the bilge of my boat with a grinder. The worst is now over! Got the grinding done, so next step will be the glass work.

I attached my shop vac to a box hoping to catch most of the dust. Well...it did work, but as you can see by my coveralls it didn't get it all. I'm glad the grinding is over. I hate that crap. I've got a pretty busy few weeks ahead of me so I probably won't get any further until May.

Carl C

04-09-2012, 07:52 AM

Looks good. The glass work can go pretty fast. Merton's is a good source to make sure you get fresh resin, etc. You will need the little roller tool too, and lots of disposable plastic gloves. You have to work in a controlled heat range. Get it done man! http://www.mertons.com/

roadtrip se

04-09-2012, 08:28 AM

Brian can tune a MEFI on a 502.

VetteLT193

04-09-2012, 08:49 AM

The dyno sheet looks to have outside air temp... was this dynoed in a cold area? And the psi / hg looks to be normal pressure so it was taken someplace just above sea level.

Not all that bad. Corrected number will help because like Buiz says... no one runs in 39 degree weather.

zelatore

04-09-2012, 09:11 AM

"Corrected number will help because like Buiz says... no one runs in 39 degree weather."

Well, Glen does live up there in Maple Leaf Land with Fogducker and the boys...he might run in 39 degree weather!

yeller

04-09-2012, 04:54 PM

So I have a glass question.

I wasn't sure what type of resin to use, but in another thread Fixx suggested vinylester, so that's what I'll get. Anyone disagree?

Also as suggested, I planned on using a waxed resin on the last coat....but then I started thinking. Do I really want a waxed resin if I'm painting it afterwards? (bilgecoat or similiar). Wouldn't I have to sand the wax off to paint?

And Zelatore: I know Fogducker has boated in 39deg weather, but I need it a bit warmer than that! Now it it was 40......

BUIZILLA

04-09-2012, 06:38 PM

The dyno sheet looks to have outside air temp... was this dynoed in a cold area? outside in the parking lot.. or that's a damm cold dyno room.. how can the tq curve be that flat, when the hp curve gains over 100hp... no can do

gcarter

04-09-2012, 07:56 PM

Yes, Vinylestrer resin.
Buy a pint of wax and add as necessary.
I'd add it to every course just to be sure. Ya never know when ya might have to stop for some reason.
W/o wax, it'll NEVER cure.............................ya add the wax.
And speaking of warmer weather, the resin will be a lot happier @ 70*.
Ya don't sand the wax off, take it off w/acetone.

yeller

04-10-2012, 01:02 AM

Thanks George. I was hoping you'd respond.

I don't fully understand why I would put the wax in from the start. I do understand that if I stop, the resin will fully cure, tack free, but then I'd have to remove the wax to add another layer of glass...wouldn't I?
Without the wax, the resin will cure, but will be tacky, right? Is there anything wrong with that?
Before I paint, I will then need to remove the wax? If I wipe a waxed resin with acetone, will it be obvious to me that the wax has been fully removed? My only real concern about having to remove the wax is if I miss a spot and I don't get good adhesion in that area.

Lots of questions.......I just want to make sure I get it right. I'd prefer to skip the wax altogther unless I absolutely have to use it. One less step to worry about.

Too avoid answering all the above questions and to simplify the matter....can I do my repairs in the following manner:
2~3 (or however many) layers of glass with unwaxed resin and then Bilgecoat (or similar) on top? Or do I need to wax the final layer of resin?

gcarter

04-10-2012, 06:48 AM

Glen, to assume incompletely cured resin is a good surface to add an additional course of glass would be incorrect. Once certain components are cured it's done and the inhibited surface will not bond to an additional course, just the opposite. You'll simply have a horrible mess.
When you're mixing the ratios, you simply add a few CC's of wax, mix and use. The wax is very inexpensive.
You may or may not need to remove the wax after curing, but if it's been an appreciable period of time, you'll need to sand the surface before adding any more glass.
Do it right, do it once!

Carl C

04-10-2012, 07:53 AM

What is all this talk about wax? When I did my reinforcement project I used vinylester resin with hardener and 4 layers of stitchmat. I kept the temperature at 75* and monitored that with a thermometer in the engine room. I never used "wax" and no one said anything about adding "wax"? I was able to lay all of the glass in one day. You have to do it all within a certain timeframe or else wait for each course to fully cure. I just reread my thread from when I did mine. Glen, you might want to look at this thread. There was a lot of good input from Mr X & Dwight & George & BigGriz & everyone else. http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?57025-Air-22-Dwight-Can-U-Help-Me-W-525-Install (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?57025-Air-22-Dwight-Can-U-Help-Me-W-525-Install&highlight=dwight+can+you+help+me+with+525+install)

gcarter

04-10-2012, 08:24 AM

Carl, you may have used a resin product w/wax already added, unknown to you.

Carl C

04-10-2012, 09:00 AM

This is what I used:
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pictures748Medium.jpg

gcarter

04-10-2012, 09:09 AM

Same resin I used, but I either had them add wax (which they will do) or I added wax myself.

Carl C

04-10-2012, 11:30 AM

What does the wax do? Mine cured fine without it.

gcarter

04-10-2012, 12:05 PM

Resin is formuated to cure in a mold w/o any air exposed to it.
When it is exposed to air, it doesn't cure properly. The wax added to the resin will surface after the resin's applied to seal the surface and exclude any air.
There're some here that can explain the chemistry that's involved, but I'm just a hobbyist.
I suspect what happened in your case is, the folks at Merton's asked you what you were doing, and when you told them repairs in your bilge, they added wax to your order.
It WON'T cure w/o it.

VetteLT193

04-10-2012, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE=buizilla]outside in the parking lot.. or that's a damm cold dyno room.. how can the tq curve be that flat, when the hp curve gains over 100hp... no can do [/QUOTE]

I agree on the temp, it's cold, but certainly possible up north.

as for the TQ / HP... it makes perfect sense to me. Check out dynos on 1996 Corvette LT4 engines. Same thing happens there. HP is just a calculation based on TQ. HP = TQ * RPM / 5252 . I spot checked the numbers and they look fine.

I can't find my old dyno sheet but here is another example. This is the epitome of a great engine that has a huge area under the curve.

http://www.grandsportregistry.com/dynos/halliday_dyno.jpg

BUIZILLA

04-10-2012, 02:54 PM

Bob... an LT4 small block is not a supercharged BIG block...

blackhawk

04-10-2012, 03:25 PM

how can the tq curve be that flat, when the hp curve gains over 100hp... no can do

Hah? Why can't you have a flat tq curve with hp rising 100+ hp in 1000 rpm?

BUIZILLA

04-10-2012, 07:01 PM

have fun with it.......

gcarter

04-10-2012, 07:43 PM

I know, I know!
Because
T = 5252 x HP
rpm

And if the HP goes up significantly in a narrow rpm range, the torque has to go up also.

The formla won't align properly, sorry.

blackhawk

04-10-2012, 08:01 PM

I know, I know!Because
T = 5252 x HP
rpm

And if the HP goes up significantly in a narrow rpm range, the torque has to go up also.

The formla won't align properly, sorry.

Exactly, and the numbers do align properly on that sheet. HP = T x rpm/5252. 5252 is constant and rpm is variable. This is WHY torque can stay flat and hp will increase.

An engine making 600 lbs of tq at 4000 rpm has to make 457hp at 4000 rpm. If it also makes 600 lbs of torque at 5000 rpm then it has to make 571 hp at 5000 rpm. This goes for big block, small block, supercharged, NA, etc.

gcarter

04-10-2012, 08:19 PM

Or;
500 HP@ 4000 RPM = 656#' T
600 HP@ 4500 RPM = 700#' T
700 HP@ 5000 RPM = 735#' T

That's an increase in the T curve.

blackhawk

04-10-2012, 08:31 PM

Or;
500 HP@ 4000 RPM = 656#' T
600 HP@ 4500 RPM = 700#' T
700 HP@ 5000 RPM = 735#' T

That's an increase in the T curve.

Exactly! :thumbsup: In this case the hp increased 200 vs 79 for the tq.

Now can someone answer why the the "reply with quote" doesn't work properly?

yeller

04-10-2012, 10:00 PM

Thanks George. Appreciate the explanations.

As far as the dyno sheet goes.......I honestly don't care whether it's accurate or not. I never really paid much attention to it. I only posted it because it was sent to me. The seller of the motor got it from the the original owner of the motor. I'm getting the motor dyno'd before it ships. That's the dyno sheet I'll be looking at.

...and Blackhawk, the "reply with quote" doesn't work for me either...

yeller

06-16-2012, 05:51 PM

Well two months later and not a whole lot has happened. Boat is still motorless. Glass work isn't finished. Motor still hasn't shipped yet. I've been crazy busy with virtually no extra time so work on the boat has been very, very, slow. Our summer has been horrible so far, so at least I don't feel like I'm missing out on boating.

There were a lot of delays with the 502 and I went back and forth on whether I was putting the 496 back in or not. I had finally decided to start putting the 496 back together and then the 502 deal completed. So I do have a motor coming. 650hp @ 5200, 750tq @ 3700. Money was sent and it will ship next week. BTW: Motor was dyno'd at Crockett's. I called Brian, but he doesn't tune the Mefi

yeller

06-16-2012, 06:00 PM

Although I still have lots of work to go, I was able to get a bit of work done.
I repaired the stinger where it was notched for the procharger (on the 496).

gcarter

06-16-2012, 06:01 PM

Congratulations Glen.

yeller

06-16-2012, 06:07 PM

Thanks George. I haven't seen any updates on the TR lately. I'm hoping it's because you are too busy with the business. $$$$

I've never liked how the pad for the bilge pump blocked the lowest spot in the bilge and prevented all the water from draining out, so I notched it in the center then glassed it.

yeller

06-16-2012, 06:44 PM

During the grinding, there was several spots where there was voids under the final layer of glass. I ground these out and filled the voids and any 'low' spots with polyester filler.

I also filled most of the transom holes (from the old tabs and steering rams). As suggested by GCarter, I tapered and filled them from the inside to reduce the amount of repair work necessary on the outside. I still need to give them a skim coat of filler before I can re-gel.

After the holes were filled I glassed in two layers of 1708 Knytex

yeller

06-16-2012, 06:54 PM

Don't have a picture of it, but I then put in a layer of Knytex in the bilge (up and over the top of each stringer). What a pain in the a** that was. I marked the Knytex ahead of time so I would know exactly where to lay it. Once I wetted it out, I noticed I lined up the wrong marks and had to move it 6". :bonk: Anyone that's tried to move a saturated piece of fiberglass knows what a mess it makes.

I still plan on putting a second layer in, but the weather hasn't cooperated.

yeller

06-16-2012, 09:53 PM

I only used that to cut through the wood pad. Otherwise I used a sandpaper disc

thriller

06-17-2012, 02:04 AM

getting there. Nice Work:wink:

Offset

06-17-2012, 06:51 AM

Great thread, lots of information on many subjects. Yeller, good luck getting the boat back in the water. Hopefully you will get it buttoned up with lots of great boating weather left.

Carl C

06-17-2012, 09:35 AM

When I was looking for more power it was unanimous to lose the 496. Scot VanAlstine called me to encourage me to do so. I am so glad that I listened and went to a 502 based engine. Glenn, you will not regret it. Your draining concern is why I did not core my engine room floor. I did not want to trap all that water up front. I'm sorry you're having a crappy summer. In Michigan it has been all 80s & 90s (F). I've been out over a dozen times. We have a big run planned for next week as temps will be in the 90s. Might do Put-in-Bay. I hope you get the engine soon and can find the time to get it done. It won't take long.

yeller

09-14-2012, 11:04 PM

Well I'm still not boating. It's been a tough summer with no boat, but I've come to terms with the fact that I won't be back on the water until next year. :bawling:

Anyways....motor arrived a couple months ago...and it looks like a BEAST! The M3 Procharger is SOOOO much larger than the M1 that was on the 496. The M3 must be capable of serious HP if you want it. Check out the side by side pic of the two.

...............and because everyone had so much fun disecting the last dyno sheet I posted, I've included the most recent one. :D

yeller

09-14-2012, 11:13 PM

Not a lot of work done in the last 3 months. The glass work inside the bilge is all done, but I still need to gel it.

yeller

09-14-2012, 11:24 PM

What little time I have had was spent mostly on the transom exterior.
I filled the exhaust holes by putting a layer of glass over the hole (on the inside). Once the glass had hardened, I cut a wood plug to fit the hole, put a thick layer of putty on it and "squished it" into place and coated the outside with putty as well. When that hardened, I ground it reasonable smooth and glassed over it. When that set, I ground the glass smooth and prepped it for a finishing coat of filler.

yeller

09-14-2012, 11:29 PM

When I removed the tabs and steering ram brackets from the transom, I wasn't sure how I was going to remove the 4200 that was on there. I figured it was going to be a major PITA, but when I was in a tool store, I saw a decal/paint "eraser" and figured I'd give it a try.

The thing worked great! I highly recommend it to anyone that needs to remove sealer, decals, or paint stripes off their boat.

yeller

09-14-2012, 11:47 PM

With my new tabs, I've decided to install them in the horizontal position. I think they'll acccomplish what I want with the benefit of scubbing less speed. I figure if it doesn't work out, it's not a huge deal to relocate them.

The trouble with installing them how I want is that the transom is curved and the tab mounting plate doesn't lay flat. I needed to fill the gap with a layer of polyester (fiberglass reinforced) putty. I taped up the plates to protect them then put a sheet of parchment paper on the transom and the mating surface of the plate. Then I coated the plate with putty and bolted them to the transom. Once the putty had semi-hardened, I cut off the excess. When I removed the mounting plate, I had a perfect spacer.

yeller

09-14-2012, 11:51 PM

Now I have a couple questions I'm hoping someone can answer.

1 - In the pic of my seawater pump, what is the chrome cover for on top and what is the large screw on the side for?

2 - What is the blue thing in the second pic? I think it is suppose to be installed in the crankcase ventilation line to collect any oil before the air is reintroduced to the air intake.........but I'm not sure.

yeller

09-14-2012, 11:57 PM

I am also a bit stumped on what to do with my fuel pick up. I need to increase my fuel line and pick up size, but I can't simply remove the pick up from the tank and install a new one. There is a short threaded pipe in the top of my (plastic) tank that holds the pick up, but it can't be removed. I need a minimum 1/2" pick up. Any ideas on how I can install one?

gcarter

09-15-2012, 03:35 AM

Call or email Moeller and find out what your options are.
The pickup is so close to the large sender hole, there mey be some options for removing and replacing the metal pickup parts w/something larger.

Pismo

09-15-2012, 06:32 AM

The back part is the water pump, the front half with the silver cover is fuel pump. That crazy 2 on 1 mercruiser fuel pump/water pump combo. Looks not in use.

yeller

09-18-2012, 09:44 PM

Thanks George. I have a solution now.

Prismo, I didn't know fuel and water pumps were ever combined. I never would have guessed that's what it was. You are correct....the fuel pump isn't being used. Thanks.

Carl C

09-21-2012, 01:51 PM

Looks good. Sorry you missed the whole summer. This was the best boating summer ever in my area. IDK how many record high temps we broke but it was a lot. Boating is winding down but not done. Your glass work looks similar to what I did and I've had no problems after 4 seasons of running hard on the Great Lakes. I paid to have my exhaust relocated.

RickSE

09-23-2012, 10:11 PM

Yes, that's a mount for a mechanical fuel pump, no pump just a cover plate. I have that combo one on my 500EFI. The early 500EFI's had vapor lock problems with only an electric fuel pump so they added the mechanical pump on the sea pump housing, The mechanical pump helps by pulling fuel from the tank and supplying to the electric pump.

Looks good Yeller.

yeller

04-22-2013, 01:29 AM

It's been 7 months since I posted anything on this thread. Not a lot has happened. Plan was to have the boat running by April 1st. Well the April fool's joke was on me, because it's still not running. New deadline is June 1st...but so far my deadlines haven't meant squat! I have hired a new supervisor at work, so I'm hoping that will free up a bit more time to get this thing finished.

Bilge area is finished. At least something got done. :rolleyes: For a finish, I tried gel, but yellow doesn't cover well and after 3 coats you could still easily see through it. I should have put down a coat or two of white first. So I then switched to a Tremclad paint with a hardener. It covered in one coat. I used a "wet look" hardener and finish really shines. Really does remain looking wet.

I decided to ditch the Merc seawater pump and went with GCarters suggestion of a crank driven pump. I'm also switching to an electric circulating pump

About the only other thing I got done was to paint up some of the engine parts and accessories. Pretty much done all the painting. The last piece I have to do is the intake, then I can get back to working on the engine wiring. I relocated the MEFI and want to clean up and hide as much of the wiring as possible.

gcarter

04-22-2013, 06:59 AM

The parts look really good Glen!
Lotta work, ain't it?

duckhunter

04-22-2013, 10:31 AM

Looking great! Bolting up the shiny new stuff is the best part. Makes all of the prep work worth it!

yeller

04-22-2013, 03:27 PM

duckhunter

04-22-2013, 03:42 PM

You got that right George! I figured that since the motor was out, I'd make sure everything was painted and "just so". It just didn't seem that big a deal before I started, but the hours just fly by and I never get as much accomplished I think I should.

Duckhunter, I've been following your thread on gaining some hp for your boat. I have just the thing.
I'm using the bottom one.....you need its offspring. :tongue:
.

Yeller - your procharger is dead sexy but that just isn't in the cards for this boat. I am however doing some T&E with an alternative system. Just need to figure out how to plumb my beer cooler as an intercooler without losing too much capacity! :tooth:

Picture below is right out of the duckhunter skunkworks...

75615

Carl C

04-22-2013, 07:12 PM

You painted the oil filter yellow? :smile:

duckhunter

04-22-2013, 08:39 PM

You painted the oil filter yellow? :smile:

Attention to detail man! Or feng shui. One or the other...

yeller

04-25-2013, 01:42 PM

Duckhunter, that'd make a good dual purpose "blower". Needs to be painted yellow to work properly though. :tooth:

Carl, that isn't the oil filter, it's the water seperator.....but I will be painting the oil filter yellow. I shouldn't have to tell you that yellow, makes boats faster, cools motors better and yes...improves filtering capabilities. I don't want to get into the science and molecular structure of it all, because it's pretty much common knowledge.

yeller

09-01-2013, 03:08 PM

Well I've been slowly plugging along on getting this done. Really planned to be done by now, but that's not the case. I haven't been updating this thread, because I get such little free time...and what I do get, is spent in the garage working on the boat. Final drop-dead deadline to finish the boat was yesterday, because I had plans to meet RickSE and couple others at Lake Powell in September. It was going to be close, but I was fairly confident I was going to make it, and then my mom went into the hospital. I've been spending time with her, so the boat came to a standstill.

I fully blame George Carter for my boat not being done, though. If he wasn't posting pics of the quality of work he is doing on his boat, I wouldn't have had to up my game and do more to mine. I'm very upset with George right now. I've lost another season because of him. :wink::biggrin.:

yeller

09-01-2013, 03:25 PM

In order to try and get back on track, I realized it was necessary to purchase a new piece of shop equipment. I find it extremely useful and would highly recommend it to anyone.

77201

gcarter

09-01-2013, 03:28 PM

I fully blame George Carter for my boat not being done, though. If he wasn't posting pics of the quality of work he is doing on his boat, I wouldn't have had to up my game and do more to mine. I'm very upset with George right now. I've lost another season because of him. :wink::biggrin.:

I've been blamed for lot's of things in my life, but this one is new and fresh. :wink:
Where he found this confidence in my ideas and work, I've no idea.:propeller:
He'd been much better served sending Bobi on shopping trips! :yes:

yeller

09-01-2013, 03:33 PM

Finished painting most of the engine parts. Painted the intake and I removed the 502 decal and replaced it with a piece of plastic mirror for some added bling. :shades: I plan to add a Donzi, 502 or some type of decal to it. Haven't decided yet. Installed the plastic mirror on the engine hatch also

I had bought a set of polished valve covers and painted the lines to match. Never really crossed my mind, but when I went to install the header, it hits the new covers due to the way they curve back into the engine. Oh, well. So much for the bling. I ended up repainting the stock ones and will reuse those.

I also purchased a cheapy polishing pad for my grinder and polished the S/C mount. Not a great job, but better than what it was before.

yeller

09-01-2013, 03:39 PM

As mentioned in an earlier post, I ended up painting the bilge. Here's a pic...and the "wet look" additive/hardener I used. The shine is awesome. Really does look wet in person.

yeller

09-01-2013, 03:49 PM

Kind of wasted my time with the Gel/Paint because I ended up covering it up anyways.
I bought 2 4x8 sheets of plastic chrome checkerplate to put in. Of course this required a line bender to form it properly, so it started another project for me. Making a line bender. I stole the heating wire out of my wife's hair dryer. (I do NOT recommend doing this. The wife wasn't very understanding). :biggrin: Anyways, I stretched it out into a piece of aluminum u-channel, built a table for it and connected it to a 120/24v transformer. Transformer is a bit too small, but it was good enough for this application.

yeller

09-01-2013, 03:55 PM

So, another little project pops up to waste time. Because I am using -10 lines for my oil, I couldn't find a fitting that would fit my oil cooler. I needed an Inverted Flare to -10. I looked locally and searched the net, but the biggest I could find was a -8.

What I ended up having to do was buy an Inverted Flare fittling and a -10 fitting. I cut them both in half and brazed the (required) two ends together. 2 fittings...made to order.

yeller

09-01-2013, 04:08 PM

Just in case anyone is interested, I took a few pics of the Eddiy Young modified fuel rail that came with the engine. Pretty easy mods that anyone can do, but necessary in higher hp applications if you want to use the stock rail. The stock rail feeds fuel in one end and the pressure regulator is at the other end. Because the rail is only feed from one end, the cylinders at the other end can end up starving for fuel, which you know, can lean things out and melt pistons.

Eddie feeds the rail from both ends. The stock regulator is disconnected because an aftermarket regulator is being used. Eddie left it in place, but it was interferring with my temp sensors on the T-stat housing, so I removed it completely, tapped the holes and plugged them.

Because the stock reg isn't used, the feed line and return line of the rail are no longer connected, so Eddie drills a hole in the center of the underside of the rail, through the return rail, into the feed rail, then plugs the bottom of the rail. He also drills the hole feeding the #8 injector larger. (It's either the #8 or #7 injector. Can't picture it my head, which one it is). From the factory, the hole for this injector is much smaller than the rest.

yeller

09-01-2013, 04:21 PM

This motor is a V-belt setup, and I hate V-belts, so I wanted to swap over to a serpentine setup. Things worked out easier than I anticipated on this little project. A local altenator rebuilder swapped the altenator pully for only $10 and I purchased a power steering pully from a wrecker for $15. The hardest part was trying to find a spot where I could mount the power steering pump, altenator, and tensioner. (I'm using an electric circulating pump and crank driven raw water pump, so those didn't need to be included). Because of the size of the S/C mounting hardware and intercooler, space was limited. I ended up putting both on the starboard side. I fabbed a template for the mounts out of 3/8 plywood and once everything looked good I cut pieces out of 1/2" aluminum plate. I was too lazy to polish these mounts, so I just painted them black. The piece I was most concerned about trying to fit in was the tensioner. Luckily the stock V-belt tensioner would work and it bolted into the exact spot I needed with only a minor adjustment. All I had to do was cut one side of the mount off, rotate it 180deg and weld it back in place. Bolt hold spacing, and location was perfect.

I don't have pics right now, but will add some later.

yeller

09-01-2013, 04:40 PM

Another small project: I didn't have any mounts for the oil cooler, so I needed to make those also.
Used a piece of aluminum angle and pipe. I cut the pipe in half to use as a cradle for the cooler and bolted it to the angle aluminum. I ground the bottom of the cradle piece a bit to allow clearance for a hose clamp.

Ed Donnelly

09-01-2013, 05:08 PM

A lot of bling going on there Macgyver
I get tired just reading all that you have done

But it will be so worth it when you are blasting away in the ocean....Ed

yeller

09-01-2013, 07:44 PM

Sure hope it will be worth it Ed. It'll be next year now, before I'm boating.

Forgot to mention, I did end up solving my fuel pickup problem. Don't have a pic of it, but it's as simple as enlarging the end of the 3/8 npt fitting to accept 1/2" OD copper tubing for the pickup. (Soldered the tubing to the fitting). RT pointed me in the right direction and Brian Orlandi told me how to do it. Thanks to both for giving me the solution.

yeller

02-18-2014, 12:52 AM

As usual, I haven't accomplished much on the boat lately but here are some pics to go with post 79.

First 2 are of the power steering bracket I made. Pretty basic and not very pretty, but it does the job. The studs holding the bracket in place are just temporary. I'll get proper spacers machined and then use SS bolts. The 3rd pic is of the belt tensioner. The bottom bracket of the tensioner is the one I spun 180deg and rewelded. I was amazed it lined right up to existing bolt holes and fit exactly where I needed it. It's pretty rare something works right the first time. :D The last pic is of the setup with belt.

yeller

02-18-2014, 01:09 AM

Only other project I finished was a minor one. I added a pvc tube to hide the wires/cables coming into the engine bay.
I painted a 4" pvc pipe (yellow of course), then cut it length ways and used a heat gun to soften it up so I could open it up. This way I could use the bolts that are in place for the deck/hull joint to hang it and if I need to run a new wire, I won't have to fish it through. I can simply drop it in from the top. This is another one of the "not so pretty, but it works" projects. And for those that zoom in to look at the details, yes I know, it needs a paint touch up and it's not fully bolted in place. It is now, just not in the pics. :wink:

........and no comments about the messy garage please. :bawling: It's not easy fitting the boat and all my crap in a 2 car garage.

yeller

02-18-2014, 01:22 AM

I really haven't done much else, which is pretty pathetic actually because I've added even more work to the schedule. I've decided I'm going to strip down the engine and check everything. I had CarlC check it out before I bought it, but he was only able to see it with the heads off. It looked good, but I still want to mic everything. I'm cautiously optimistic everything will check out, but I'll be putting in new rings and bearings regardless. I'll never feel comfortable using it if I don't.

My new (umpteenth) deadline to finish is April. I want to say end of March, but I know that will never happen. If I can get it all done sometime in April, I'll be happy.

Carl C

02-18-2014, 06:34 AM

You can pop off the oil pan and check bearing clearances with plasti-gauge. I don't see any need to re-ring it unless it rusted. Get it done and go boating!

Ed Donnelly

02-18-2014, 07:41 AM

My brothers birthday is May 1st and he will be 73
Your boat will be ready then so celebrate his birthday by going for a blast...Ed

yeller

03-15-2014, 02:15 PM

Carl, I may just do that. I would really like to install new rings/bearings......just because the engine is already out, but I suspect I will get impatient to get boating and skip it.

Ed, goal is May 1. We`ll see.

For the last while I've been finishing off the engine by redoing the wiring harness, fuel lines and miscellaneous items. The wiring takes more time that one might think when you are soldering so many connections. I moved the ecm to the back of the engine to try and keep most of the wiring out of direct view. I was 99% finished and decided to mount the headers to get a visual of what it was going to look like.

Turns out my drive lube bottle, master circuit breaker, some relays, fuel regulator and fuel splitter block all interfered with the silent choice and y-pipe. Aaargh!!! Now I'm back to being only 60% done on the engine. Trouble is, I don't have a lift that can get the engine high enough to be able to drop the engine in for a test fit, so I have been "eyeballing" the placement of most everything. I could work a lot faster if I was sure of what fits where.

So now I have to fab a couple new brackets and rewire a good chunk of the engine. :bawling:

yeller

03-15-2014, 02:23 PM

In my quest to have the most bling for the least amount of money, I`m looking at getting some of this:

http://techflex.com/prod_cxn.asp

For well under $200 I could wrap every single hose and plug wire. Stainless Steel look on the cheap. :biggrin.:

yeller

03-15-2014, 02:35 PM

I haven`t been looking forward to hand sanding the transom. I have all the necessary sanding air tools, but my compressor can not keep up with air sanders. I have always wanted a compressor that would never run out of air. After years of always looking, but not buying, I finally bit the bullet and picked up a 2-stage IR. This thing will outlast me. :yes:

Conquistador_del_mar

03-15-2014, 02:55 PM

Excellent adaptations and customizations you are doing. You should really like the air compressor - I need to get a 2 stage, but the Ingersoll 5HP 80 gallon one I have keeps going strong.

Carl C

03-15-2014, 05:28 PM

I need a two stage compressor too so I can have the 160 psi we'd use in the shop. My pos keeps going strong too though even though it maxes out at 110 psi and I have to take breaks with air grinders.

gcarter

03-16-2014, 06:58 AM

My 30 year old compressor finally bit the dust about the same time as I started my current project. The compressor/tank check valve failed and no replacements were available. So I bought a 12 HP 2 stage good for about 10-12 cfm at about 100 psi. It keeps up w/anything I'm doing. It's not a fancy I-R, but has done well for about seven years so far.

yeller

03-16-2014, 03:59 PM

12hp - 2 stage should supply you and several others with enough air. :yes:

I don't really need a 2-stage compressor. A good single stage would keep up with sanders and anything else I need. Getting a 2-stage was kind of a red-neck ego boost. :tooth:

Carl C

03-16-2014, 04:07 PM

[QUOTE=yeller;649597]12hp - 2 stage should supply you and several others with enough air. :yes:

I don't really need a 2-stage compressor. A good single stage would keep up with sanders and anything else I need. Getting a 2-stage was kind of a red-neck ego boost. :tooth:[/QUOUT]

I think a two stage is the only way to get the higher pressures to run big air tools. 110 psi will not power my 3/4" impact wrench. Most shops run around 160 PSI.

yeller

03-16-2014, 04:21 PM

It also depends on the quality of the compressor. I could get enough psi from my portable compressor to run my impact wrench and sanders......but only momentarily, because it had a crappy pump that built pressure too slowly. I agree a 2-stage is better, but a quality single stage with a 60 or 80 gallon tank should be able to keep up with a single guy.

.........but I don't listen to my own logic..........and bought the 2 stage. :tongue:

gcarter

03-16-2014, 04:37 PM

Carl C

03-16-2014, 06:13 PM

I don't have or need a 3/4" impact wrench. I don't like the idea of 160# air in my shop either, for safety reasons. For me 125# (the shut off pressure of my pressure switch) is more than enough for me. Sanders seem to work well at about 90#, I spray paint at about 45#, and I'm a happy camper w/my set up.

I wrenched on cars for 20 years and am used to higher pressure. My single stage gets the job done but sometimes I have to break out the 4' long 3/4" breaker bar for tough stuff cuz my impact wrenches aren't pounding hard enough!

Fishermanjm

03-16-2014, 08:08 PM

Yeller,,, how loud is that compressor? my craftsman crapped out after 8 years, it never had enough air, but i dealt with it. I like the IR

yeller

03-20-2014, 12:08 AM

That's a tough question to answer. How do i explain how loud it is? All I can say is it's somewhat quieter than the 5hp Craftsman portable it replaced

gcarter

03-20-2014, 05:01 AM

Regardless of how loud it is, unless the circumstances are unusual, it won't run for very long.

Conquistador_del_mar

03-20-2014, 12:01 PM

My portable 4HP 110V beltless Devilbiss compressor at my house is much louder than the 5HP 220V belt driven IR at the shop.

Fishermanjm

03-20-2014, 02:59 PM

i gotcha George, once the tank fills,,, for the use it will get, which is seldom, it should not run too often. I used to wrench in the garage on the side but now its just my own stuff. Home Depot has the IR i think, I dont think im goin with another craftsman

dsparis

03-20-2014, 06:23 PM

gcarter

03-21-2014, 11:25 AM

A 12 hp compressor and 10-12 cfm ? My old 1 stage 5 hp is 18.5/ 100 psi

Well, gosh darn it! Ya made me go look! As I haven't looked at it since I installed it in a corner next to the drill press many years ago! It appears to be either 5 or 6 HP as I can't quite make it out.

yeller

05-19-2014, 02:03 PM

I should have started a compressor thread. That's the most interest I've garnered since starting this build. :biggrin.:
Despite not being able to get much work done, I am still confident I'll be on the water this summer. I'm scared to say "when", because I've never been able to hit my deadline yet, but hopefully it will be soon. I've decided against freshening the motor so that will save some time.

I was pretty much at a stand-still because I needed to drop the motor in for a test fit in order to finish the numerous small items. My shop crane won't lift the motor high enough to get it in the boat.

While I was waiting, I had purchased a chartplotter and installed that.
79666

I tucked it in as tight as I could to the corner of the windscreen. As with everything, even that wasn't a quick and easy install, because I couldn't use the supplied bracket and had to make my own.
79667

yeller

05-19-2014, 02:09 PM

In order to move forward, I simply had to get the motor installed for a test fit. I tossed around the idea of pulling the boat off the trailer and setting it on the ground so I could use the engine hoist, but I've pulled the boat off the trailer before and it's a pita. I ended up building a gantry to hoist the motor.
79668 79669
I disassembled the gantry after I was done and will set it back up when I need to pull the motor

yeller

05-19-2014, 02:23 PM

In my quest to stroke my ego with bling :pimp: but too cheap to buy the real thing, I bought some
S/S sheathing.
79674

One Rad hose and required 1.5" sheathing
79672 79670

Slide the sheathing over the hose.
79673

I then taped the ends to control the fraying.
79678

Then I covered the tape with Shrink Tubing.
79675 79676 79677

Voila! One S/S braided hose.
79671

I have more to do, including some of the cabling, but I'm happy with how it's looking so far.
79681 79680 79679

gcarter

05-19-2014, 03:20 PM

Lookin' good Glen!
Speaking of compressors, I see your exhaust compressor. I kept mine black. I did repaint it though. Mine is back in the stbd transom corner and behind the steering hoses.

Redink

05-19-2014, 03:30 PM

Yeller,

What did you use for the transducer? I was speaking to an "expert" at West Marine over the weekend. He claimed that the Lowrance models would NOT work with a "shoot through the hull" transducer? I also had settled on the Elite 5 unit I spoke to him.

Redink

05-19-2014, 03:36 PM

Also, any behind the scenes pictures of bracket, etc would be GREATLY appreciated.

yeller

05-19-2014, 04:31 PM

Thanks George.
That compressor isn't actually installed there. It is just sitting there. I was going to install it back near the transom but I've decided to ditch it altogether. I am going to adapt my electric solenoids off my stock Q&Q instead. I just don't like having to use a compressor when the electric solenoids are a much simplier system.

yeller

05-19-2014, 04:39 PM

Redink,
Your "expert".....isn't. Any unit will work with a shoot thru transducer. The only reason a shoot thru transducer wouldn't work is because there are air pockets in the glass layup. The Elite instructions even have directions on how to mount the transducer externally as well as thru hull. I bought the "Gold" unit which comes with a transducer (and maps). I haven't mounted mine yet, as I need to wait until I can put the boat in the water. In order to assure I don't pick a spot that has an air pocket, I will place the transducer in a bag of water in the bilge and move it around until I get a signal. I suspect I will be able to install it pretty much anywhere as I don't expect to have any air pockets in the layup. Not sure what I will use to attach it to the hull. Instructions say to use an epoxy, but it doesn't say what kind. I will have to do a bit of google searching to find out what to use. It will also be important that I don't get any air bubbles in the epoxy.

As far has the head unit mounts, they are simply pieces of angle aluminum. You can see one of them sticking out below the unit. I had to bend them slightly to fit the curvature of the deck.

gcarter

05-19-2014, 05:57 PM

Hey Glen, epoxy tends to get brittle (Probably because of the thickness of the epoxy)
and sometimes lets go. I mean it'll shear through the epoxy, not that it lets go from one or both surfaces.
I think a better mounting method is to use RTV. Lay on a 1/4" thick blob on the puck and press it onto the selected spot. And as a bonus, if it doesn't work in that spot, use a putty knife to pry it up and relocate it where it will.

Carl C

05-19-2014, 07:13 PM

I took the tires off my trailer and jacked up the front and got the cherry picker to just barely work! Not me in the pic.

yeller

05-20-2014, 11:25 AM

I thought of doing that as well Carl. Wasn't 100% sure it would work though, so I went with the gantry.

Thanks George. I was pretty sure I could use a silicon of some sort.

Redink, here's a pic of the mount.
79696

Redink

05-21-2014, 01:03 PM

Very Nice!

Thank You.

yeller

07-26-2014, 09:16 PM

I'm getting very close to getting back on the water. Only thing left I have to do is connect the throttle cables and fire the motor. I'm hoping to fire it up Monday afternoon and if all goes well, I'll go for a test spin on Tuesday.
Boat still needs gel work on the transum, but I have to relocate the boat and it's going to be difficult to work on it at the new location, so getting it running was a priority. It also needs a MAJOR detailing. I'll post some pics of the final work later.

yeller

07-31-2014, 01:25 PM

Fired the boat up on Tuesday. Only ran it for a few minutes, but it sounds nasty. :yes:
Some of the gauges weren't working properly so I didn't want to put it in the water yet.

Still didn't take any pics or video. Will try and remember to get those next week.

Boat is a couple hundred miles from me at my cousins shop, so I won't get back there until sometime next week to (hopefully) finish it off.

The only pic I have is of the "centering disc" I had made for my raw water pump. I'm using a crank driven pump and, as other have said before, the bolt holes are larger than the bolts, so it's near impossible to center the pump without fabricating something.
8035180350

yeller

07-31-2014, 01:33 PM

Also have 2 pics of the exhaust tails. I wanted to go from pneumatic solenoids on the switchable exhaust to electric, so I had to get a S/S bar welded in the end to stop the flaps
80352

and weld on a new mounting bracket for the solenoid.

80353

Solenoids worked great when I tested the setup, but now that they are in the boat, they don't pull in all the time. Power to the solenoids is just a touch low, so I think I'll have to wire in a relay and give them full/direct battery power.

yeller

07-31-2014, 06:25 PM

One thing I forgot to mention was that when I installed the trim tabs, one of them was leaking fluid. These are brand new EMI tabs. I took the ram apart and found aluminum shavings inside which damaged the seal. :mad: Unfortunately, I bought them 3 years ago, so EMI wouldn't warranty it. 10% discount is all they would do.

Redink

07-31-2014, 06:59 PM

Careful of any relays in engine compartment. Just say'n. I also looked at electric acuators, seemed more straight forward until I thought about why they might use the air actuators.

yeller

08-01-2014, 04:18 PM

Not too worried about using a relay. All boats have at least one in the bilge.
Not sure what your concern would be about using an electric actuator?
Mine are having a bit of trouble working only because I pulled the actuator rod out further than stock, so it needs a bit more juice to pull it back in.

I was going to get someone else to finish the gel on my transom, but I now decided I'll tackle the job myself.
Called Mini-Craft in FL, because I ordered some patch paste from them before and the color was spot on. Figured I'd get the gel from them, but they want $136 for a quart!! :eek: That's insane!

Going to give these guys a try.
http://www.fibreglast.com/category/colorgelcoat

Ordered their color book for $5. Hoping they have something very close. No one would notice if it's not a 100% perfect match because I'll spray the entire transom and the corners of the boat provide a break to the eye.

Carl C

08-01-2014, 08:43 PM

A yellow Donzi Classic blew up his engine compartment at the local dock a couple weeks ago. Some locals thought maybe it was me but the launch site guy told them that I know better. It was still a wake up call to NEVER start the engine without running the vent fan or raising the hatch and sniffing. If those were Bennett tabs they would have been fixed for free.

yeller

08-22-2014, 11:57 PM

yeller

08-23-2014, 12:01 AM

A couple pics of the motor:

80584 80585

yeller

08-23-2014, 12:12 AM

I took the boat out about a week ago, but could only go a few minutes and the alarm would go off and power was reduced. I think it was the water temp sensor that was setting it off. Not 100% sure because the gauge didn't show it getting excessively hot. Alarm would go off when the gauge would hit 170~175. I tried several times, and it alarm always sounded at the same temp. Motor shouldn't be getting that hot though because I'm running a 140deg thermostat.

I picked up a 12v LED today so I can check the engine codes.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/do-yourself-boating-budget/103342-make-marine-efi-code-tool-less-than-$1-00-a.html

If the code confirms it was the temp sensor, I'll yank the thermostat and see how it runs without it.

I also found out my altenator doesn't work. I just got it back from the rebuilder and will reinstall it tomorrow.

yeller

08-23-2014, 12:18 AM

On a positive note, the electric solenoids for the Q&Q are working and I don't need to rewire anything. Because the altenator wasn't working, my batteries were running a bit low and didn't have enough juice to pull the solenoids.

Carl C

08-23-2014, 05:56 AM

Looks great. Somehow I don't remember the blackhawk and pro-charger parts . . . . . . . . :). My mechanic, Brian knows how to match the yellow. Maybe he could ship you some. He painted my transom when the exhaust was relocated. Brian Orlandi, Orlandi Performance, 734-586-0448. You need to spray the whole transom. Be careful with the giant tabs; They can get you in trouble on a small boat like this.

gcarter

08-23-2014, 09:17 AM

Glen, surely there's a 'glass repair shop in your area that could match the gel to your hull for a reasonable fee.
If my eyesight isn't deceiving me, it's a little too dark. It would seem to be fairly easy to lighten it up w/some white.

BTW, Minicraft's gallon cost is probably under $300.00. My red was just over $300.00 and red's more expensive.
I poured it into quart cans and kept it cold. It should last quite awhile.

Keeping it cold in your area is just putting it outside! LOL :)

Carl C

08-23-2014, 09:47 AM

Is the yellow paint or gel? The yellow on my boat is paint over a solid white gel hull. Your's is '04, mine's an '05.

Conquistador_del_mar

08-23-2014, 11:30 AM

Carl, I agree. Bennett it awesome on their customer service. I was pretty surprised EMI only offered a 10% discount on the part.

I received the color book from FibreGlast but unfortunately they don't have a yellow close enough. Not exactly sure what I'm going to do at this point. I refuse to pay MiniCraft their outrageous price.

Here's a pic of what I need to do on the transom. You can see the incorrect yellow in places, where I had to fill holes.
80583

Dang Glen, your power/drive/tab setup is outrageous! Your yellow transom is a relatively easy fix with paint. Any good automotive paint store should be able to color match whatever color you want. On my yellow Donzi 23' center console, I used ChromaOne by Dupont and it blended in perfectly with the gelcoat yellow. As you already pointed out, since you have the transom breaks, it will not matter as much.

yeller

08-23-2014, 12:46 PM

Thanks guys.
The yellow is gel. I could match it fairly easily if I had it painted. I haven't completely ruled that out. It would be a lot easier to repair with paint than gel. My only concern with paint is that once a year I may leave the boat in the water for a few days and I'm afraid it would blister.

George, the yellow on the patches is not just darker. It doesn't show as much in the pics, but it has a much more orangy tint to it. White alone won't work. I already tried that.

Carl, the 496 I had before was procharged. It was on the boat when I bought it. I planned to put that procharge on a 502, but this engine came with one already. I put the Blackhawk on it shortly before I killed the 496. I only used it a couple time, but it cleared up my high speed handling issues 100%! The downside is that it increased the porpoising.
I agree with you about the tabs. I'm well aware of the dangers of the longer tabs. These things are lighting fast compared to the dual ram Bennetts. My "hope" is that with the longer tabs and the new mount position, I can reduce my porpoising without scrubbing as much speed. My theory is that the horizontal mount will reduce the tabs from working against each other and all forces will be directed to "lowering the bow" instead of some of the forces "lifting the stern", as with a conventional install.

Ed Donnelly

08-23-2014, 12:56 PM

I see George has rubbed off on you.
Yellow yellow everywhere..
Looks really nice with the trim pieces yellow
I have gone from George's side to your side now.The new 16
Is a purdy yellow too...Ed

Conquistador_del_mar

08-23-2014, 08:49 PM

gcarter

08-24-2014, 08:56 AM

Glen, I'm not trying to influence you one way or the other, but, as I mentioned above, Minicraft's gel is at, or under
$300.00/per gallon. You'd have your gel that you want, and it'd match.
OTOH, high end paint is going to cost a similar amount including the various chemicals that are required.
The obvious advantages of gel were outlined by you above, but it is more labor intensive than paint to apply and finish.
Paint, though, is "as finished" when it's applied properly saving many hours of labor, but it has a definite "in water" life expectancy.
But consider the price of the materials will be similar.

yeller

08-24-2014, 11:36 AM

You make a good point George.....but so does Bill. I always thought about 3 days was max a painted boat could stay in the water.

Fired the boat up again yesterday. Newly rebuilt altenator didn't work. :frown: It seemed to be working when I first fired the boat up, but after a few minutes it died. Will have to take it back tomorrow.

Checked the fault codes on the computer and I had a Low water temp and Low MAP sensor voltage fault. I cleared the codes, ran the motor and they didn't reappear, so they may have been old faults. The MAP fault may have happened when I had the ignition on for a while without the MAP connected. That situation caused my alarm to beep.
The low water temp fault makes no sense to me.

I ran the engine without a thermostat, but the temperature still creeped up. Even though it was running at only 1000rpm, temp still got to about 175~180, then the alarm went off again. I'm a bit confused at this point because it didn't register any faults in the ECM.
As far as I know, there are 3 things that set off a steady alarm (with a MEFI 3). Low drive fluid, Low oil pressure, and High water temperature. Drive fluid was fine. Oil pressure was good. So that only leaves the water temperature........but if it was high temp that set the alarm, I would think it should register a high temp fault. :confused:

Regardless of what the alarm was for, I have to solve the overheating problem. I'm either not getting enough circulation through the motor, or the heat exchanger isn't doing its job. If it's a circulation issue, there are two things that come to mind.
One; I'm using an electric circulation pump and I didn't test it before I installed it. :bonk: It does run, but I don't know how well it is moving the water.
Two: typically there is a t-stat bypass hose that runs from just below the t-stat to the top of the pump. I don't really know what that is for, but I always assumed it was to allow the pump to circulate water when the t-stat was closed. I do know that some types of pumps can be damaged if they are running but can't circulate water. I figured engine circ pumps are like this. The electric pump I have, does not have a place for this bypass hose, so I plumbed it so the hose runs (from below the t-stat) to the inlet side of the pump. I am guessing, that it may possible, too much water is circulating through this bypass hose and not enough through the heat exchanger.

If it's not one of those two possibilities, then I may have to try a different heat exchanger.

BUIZILLA

08-24-2014, 11:50 AM

Jamie at Lakeside had the same temp issue with a 425HO and it had something to do with the exhaust hose routing ? and a sensor combination ? can't remember.... it was with a Dana exhaust though, same issue

CHACHI

08-25-2014, 07:15 AM

undertaker

08-25-2014, 07:49 AM

Yep that was my boat....When Jaime installed my Danas I was getting an alarm for water temperature when I ran the boat hard, he put my motor on his laptop and found out the starboard side exhaust was running hotter than the port side after the Dana install (dont really remember why). So what he did was put a adjustable valve on the starboard side exhaust hose underneath the exhaust manifold and made little adjustments to it while he ran the boat until he got a balance temp on both sides of the manifolds. Have not had an issue with temp since the mod was made.

Its been 7 or 8 yrs since I installed the danas so to be honest I dont remember ALL the little details, since I did not do the install or mod....and I am not a motor head like most on this board:biggrin.:

Any questions shoot me a PM Yeller be glad to help in anyway I can....

Undertaker:cool!:

RickSE

08-25-2014, 11:06 AM

Don't worry about the long tabs. I put 280's on our boat and don't have any issues. It does take a lot less tab down to get the same results as the shorter tabs.

yeller

08-25-2014, 07:23 PM

Thanks for the explanation Undertaker. Temperature balance doesn't seem to be an issue in my case. I can easily put my hand on any of the header tubes when it's running, so there is good water flow and balance on the raw water side.

The closed cooling system I have isn't a factory set up. It's something I pieced together myself. I don't "see" anything wrong with how I set it up......but that doesn't mean I didn't do something incorrectly.

undertaker

08-26-2014, 08:41 AM

Yeller, hope you get things sorted out....Good Luck :)

yeller

08-11-2015, 02:38 PM

Didn't realize it's been a year since I posted any update.
Well.....the saga continues :garfield:

Just when I thought I was ready to fire it up and test the boat again, I found out my intercooler is shot. I was sure it was good, but I before I reinstalled it, I thought I'd pressure test it. Put it in a tub of water and pumped the water side with air....and a mini jacuzzi started.

Absolutely sucks that I have to get a new one, but on the positive side, good thing I tested it. This was the exact failure on the 496HO that started this whole thing.
Procharger intercoolers are incredibly expensive, so I ordered a replacement from frozenboost.
https://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/water-to-air-intercoolers-p-217.html?osCsid=c01975a07f4d85fec63ed0620854be45
It should be here before the weekend. It's not anywhere near the same mounting configuration, so I'll have to fab something up and it's going to look ugly as chit when installed, but I believe the procharger unit is around 2G's....and I didn't want to spend that.

If all goes right.......which nothing has so far.....I'll be testing this weekend. :rolleyes:

yeller

08-11-2015, 02:57 PM

So......what have I been doing for the last year?

I've been mostly working on upgrading the cooling system.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?70199-Need-closed-cooling-system-help&highlight=

As shown in the above link, I purchased a larger HE.

82730

I had it clean, pressure tested and larger (raw water) I/O's installed.....and of course painted.

82731

Of course nothing is straight plug n play and it wouldn't fit where the previous one was, so I had to make a new mounting bracket and install it in a different location.

82732 82733 82734 82735

In the 1st pic of the (yellow) HE you can see the raw water inlet is a 90 degree fitting. When I did a trial fit of everything, I couldn't route the hose properly because the Intercooler was in the way, so in the last pic, you can see I had a different fitting installed.

Then.....because I'm cheap....I made my own recovery bottle. I took a water bottle I had lying around, added a fitting at the bottom to connect to the HE coolant tank, as well as add a vent on top. I then cut some angle aluminum to make the mounting bracket.

82736 82737

???? Don't know why some of my pics are posting sideways or upside down? Never had this problem before.

yeller

08-11-2015, 03:10 PM

To add to the cooling discussion from before........I think I was wrong about my alarm going off because of overheating.
I believe it was going off because my altenator wasn't charging. Apparently, the MEFI 3 will set an alarm if the voltage goes low for (I think it is) 3 minutes. I confused it with overheating, because the alarm would go off at the same temperature, every time. I'm thinking that the alarm wasn't going off at the same temperature. It's just that the motor would always reach about the same temp after 3 minutes of running.
This theory of mine makes a lot more sense because:
A: Temp was only about 180 when alarm went off.
B: MEFI didn't store any temp alarm....or any alarm
C: My altenator wasn't charging and my batteries are old and weak, and weren't holding a charge very well.

I won't know for sure until I fire it up again, but I did find a poor altenator connection in the exciter wire which would explain my altenator problems.

Although I don't think I was setting a high temp alarm, I still had an overheating problem and needed to upgrade the HE.

yeller

08-11-2015, 03:43 PM

I ended up painting my transom (instead of gel). The plan was; painting would be less work.

Again......nothing on this boat goes as planned.

At the risk of embarrassing myself, I'm posting pics of my crappy paint job.
I was way to anxious too get it done and although I didn't have the right tip for my gun, I masked everything off and painted anyways. :bonk:

In the second pic you can see the massive orange peeling from laying on the paint too thick.

82738 82739

Instead of a light sanding as would be normal for paint, I had to knock it down with 320, then I progressed to 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000. Sure glad it was a small area.
1st pic is after the 320. 2nd pic is after 3000. Although it doesn't show real well, you can see the shine coming up in pic 2. (Yellow doesn't show reflections nearly as well as dark colors)

82740 82741

Color match isn't as good as I would like. I took the back seat storage cover to a paint shop and they got a 96% color match, but when I put the color sample to the hatch (in the sun) it looked too orangy. I found a color sample that looked dead on and used that instead. Once I painted it though, it's more yellow than the gel (and a bit pale). The "too orangy" color probably would have been spot on.
I was going to repaint, but the wife threatened to :fire: me if I did. She said I'm too picky and I need to just get the boat finished. The saving grace, is I only painted the transom, so the right angle paint/gel line ends up looking like a shading difference.
This pic shows the difference. You can notice it more towards the bottom......as well as where a burnt through the paint. Maybe I'll repaint in the winter...

82742

Edit: DAMN!! This picture posting is pissing me off. Never had an issue ever. This is the first time I'm posting with Windows 8.1, so maybe that's the difference.

yeller

08-11-2015, 04:04 PM

As posted in this thread:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?70561-BlackHawk-drive-aeration-tube&highlight=
I installed an aeration tube on the BlackHawk and also found I had a damaged (brass) clutch ring on one of the gears.

$230 later for a pinion depth tool, I have the gears set up and the drive reinstalled. I was going to use the driveshaft/yolk from the Bravo 1x because it has a much beefier yolk and u-joints, but that didn't pan out.
I knocked the yolk off the 1x driveshaft to make it easier to set up the gear lash, but in doing so, I damaged the c-clips for the u-joint. (Stupid me...I should have used the yolk from the BH driveshaft).

Of course, as is typical with how things are going.....you can't get new clips. :boggled:
The 1x u-joints do not cross reference with anything else out there. The good guys at Pat's Driveline near me, spent close to an hour looking through every catalog, but couldn't find a matching u-joint or cap that used the same clips.
Sooo......$325 for a single u-joint. :eek::eek: What an absolute, intentional, price gouge. Thank you very much Mercury. (Can't seem to find "the finger" icon.)
That is why I put the BH driveshaft back in.

Anyways...drive is done and installed......and now I think the aeration tube is going to be a wasted project. I think I jumped the gun on doing it and it won't end up being necessary, or help. We'll see. I'll run it plugged and unplugged to see if it makes any difference.

yeller

08-11-2015, 04:10 PM

A small change for piece of mind was altering the water connection from my headers to the divertors.

Previously, the two water tubes didn't line up and I didn't like the stress it put on the connection hose. It concerned me that it wouldn't last.

82743

So I cut the tube off the header and had it welded on at a different angle so it lined up better with the divertor. I'm more comfortable with the connection now.

82744 82745 82746

yeller

08-11-2015, 04:15 PM

Also did a minor change to the trailer.
Besides, lowering the bunks 2" (just because I could :lookaroun:), I modified the winch tower to make it easier to climb onto the bow of the boat.
I stole this idea from Buizilla. I cut the part of the winch support that stuck above the winch and topped it with an aluminum plate. This effectively lowers my stepping point 8" and will help a lot. Thanks Buizilla.

82747 82748 82749

gcarter

08-14-2015, 03:22 PM

yeller

08-31-2015, 03:33 PM

Just don't add paint on top of the gel.....it's very obvious.
You're not kidding. I repaired a small dime sized chip then painted it and it is horrible. You can really notice the difference where the paint overlaps the gel.

yeller

08-31-2015, 03:47 PM

After Mr. Carter mentioned he blew the seals out of his crank driven water pump due to overpressurizing, I thought about putting in a pressure relieve valve before mine.

After some thought, I decided against the relief valve and feed my drive shower from before the water pump instead. This will relieve excess pressure before the pump and hopefully still allow enough water for the pump. I peg my 35psi water pressure gauge at speed, so I'm fairly confident I won't be diverting too much water.

I installed a backflow preventor inline to prevent the pump from sucking air when resting at idle

82916

The thru-transom fitting is threaded inside, so I just need to pick up a 3/8npt to 1/2" hose fitting. The hose in pic 2 will be replaced with a S/S sheathed hose

82915 82914

yeller

08-31-2015, 03:56 PM

As mentioned previously, my intercooler needed replacing.

I made some brackets for the new intercooler from 1/2" plate and 1/4" angle aluminum. The 1st pic is the old cooler and the 2nd pic is the new one.

82918 82917

Later I'll weld up a nicer set of backets and I plan to cut the 45deg intake off the old cooler and graft it onto the new one so I can install it closer to S/C and have a cleaner, tighter installation

yeller

08-31-2015, 04:16 PM

Again....I was soooo close to firing up the motor but....

I hit the switch for the electric engine water circulation pump to purge out any air pockets, so I could top off the cooling before firing the motor up. The pump ran for about 20 seconds, then started rattling and died. :frown:

A couple months ago I took the pump apart because I wanted to drill out the body and install a hose fitting so I could have the thermostat bypass hose go directly to the pump, instead of to a T fitting on the pump inlet hose. When I took it apart, I found out the previous owner had installed the impeller seal in backwards. This was a brand new pump, but the PO had disassembled it to powercoat it. The motor isn't wired directly to a 12volt source. There is a circuit board inside the pump and it was still wet from when I ran it 8 months ago. It survived that running and I fully dried it out and thought I was safe. :rolleyes:

I've decided to switch to a mechanical pump, but it's not a quick and easy changeover. The crank pulley sits tighter to the damper than a stock setup, so I don't think I can use the serpentine setup for the water pump. I do have a v-belt crank pulley that is being used as the spacer for the S/C pulley, but it too does not sit in the stock location. I'm pretty sure I can use that pulley to drive the water pump, but I have to locate just the right pulley for the water pump (so that it can be spaced to line up). I am also prepared to machine the mounting surfaces of the water pump if I have to, to get the right pulley spacing.

All this is just another delay. I hope to find the time to do this next week.

gcarter

08-31-2015, 07:14 PM

yeller

09-07-2015, 03:22 PM

BTW, someone gave me a relief valve and mounting Tee, just in case you end up needing it.
Thanks George.
I decided to go with the mechanical pump, because it's one less thing to break down. I feel the reliability is better. Plus, if an electric pump fails, you're dead in the water. Mechanical pumps usually give you a warning with a bearing rattle or water leakage and you still have time to make it back to the dock.

I purchased a mech pump and did a trial fit, but the inlet port hits my belt tensioner. I think I can make the serpentine setup work, but I have to relocate the tensioner 1st. Going to do that in a couple days.

yeller

02-07-2016, 12:28 PM

Finally fired the boat up after installing the new cooling setup.

No alarms this time and it didn't overheat. Temp did start to creep up a tiny bit, but I think that may be due to not enough water. The place I fired it up at is on a well system and the water is less than I'd normally get from the city system. Were suppose to have temps close to 60 Mon/Tue so I plan to do a water test Tuesday.

This is the first time I've done a youtube video and link, so let me know if it doesn't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhHJQ9NMaAM&feature=youtu.be

YhHJQ9NMaAM

JParanee

02-07-2016, 02:54 PM

Looks and sounds great

Ghost

02-07-2016, 03:48 PM

Sweet! Nothing like finally firing up a project... :)

Carl C

02-07-2016, 06:24 PM

Nice. Sounds much better than a 496. Hope you're boating this summer.

RickSE

02-08-2016, 11:46 AM

... but I think that may be due to not enough water....

Yes, doesn't seem like very much water coming out of the pipes.

yeller

02-08-2016, 01:55 PM

Carl C

02-09-2016, 11:58 AM

Thanks guys. Going out tomorrow, so keeping my fingers crossed.

Carl, although it may sound nice, I fully regret swapping in the 502. It's been a pain in the a$$. I should have stuck with the 496. For far less than I have into this project I could have put a forge rotating assembly in the 496 and been back on the water years ago. Plus I have far less room now, with the bigger S/C, new intercooler, headers, and closed cooling setup. When I started this, I wanted to make the wiring and plumbing as neat and unobtrusive as possible. With the changes I've had to make, it's an embarrassment to open the hatch.

I already have a mental plan to replace this engine. Just need to formulate a plan to get it by the wife. That's a lot of shoes she'll have to do without. :biggrin.:

You just need to work faster! I've never regretted for a second putting the 525EFI in my boat, it's also a 502 you know. Do you have Q&Q exhaust? If so that explains the low water out the pipes. A lot runs down the Y pipe. Also you're on a hose with limited volume. I think you're good to go. Engine can't look that bad. How about a pic?

yeller

02-10-2016, 04:55 PM

Took the boat out for a 40~50 mile run yesterday and it didn't overheat. I'm running a 140 thermostat and it stayed there the whole time. I'm not 100% sure it's going to be good all summer, because we were running in pretty cold water, so that definitely helped pull heat out of the motor. Temp started to climb when we were cruising along at an idle. It got up to about 180~190, then I bumped the revs up to 900 and it started to drop. That has me concerned I won't be able to keep the temp under control once the water warms up, or I take the boat south. I guess I'll just have to wait and see, but I'm happy for now.

Motor seemed to be down on power from what I expected. I could only spin it to 4900, where as I could hit 5200 with the old motor. I might have to get someone in the boat that can tune a MEFI. It was definitely running too rich.

I was also able to shift the drive out of gear properly, now that I changed the cone clutch and set it up properly. Had to put major muscle into pulling it out of gear before.

All in all, it was a good day. No alarms, no overheat, no shifting problems.

Only problem was putting the boat back on the trailer. I installed extra center bunks, but hadn't finished the job. I forgot they weren't bolted to the supports yet. I guess the boat "pressed" them onto the supports, because they didn't come completely free when the trailer hit the water, but the front of one of the bunks did float free. I couldn't fully remove the bunks, because I was worried the remaining support bracket would hit the boat when going down the road, but I was having a hell of a time trying to get it back in place without getting wet. Eventually I had stripe down to my undies and get into the 40deg water and hold it in place while my buddy winched the boat up. :biggrin.:

yeller

02-10-2016, 05:00 PM

Just a normal Canadian day on the water.
Dat's snow in dem dar' hills.

Ghost

02-10-2016, 05:32 PM

Congrats. Love the pics--amazing scenery. Did the motor get up to 180-190ish right after starting, just sitting at idle?

Or did the motor jump up to 180-190ish AFTER running hard and backing off? That's pretty common I think.

(There's lots of heat to pull from the motor at speed, but there is a lot of heat transfer due to all that water being pumped through. Right when you back off the throttle, there's still lots of heat to remove but much less water to do it. The temp spikes for a couple of minutes while the lower flow chips away at the heat, but then it drops back to normal.)

The only thing that throws me for sure so far is that I'd expect a closed cooling motor to be a good bit warmer than 140 most of the time. That feels low to me.

JParanee

02-10-2016, 07:42 PM

Beautiful boat and some beautiful scenery

Carl C

02-10-2016, 09:12 PM

Good to see the boat back on the water. Hope you get the gremlins fixed. That engine should easily be making more power than a 496 HO.

yeller

02-11-2016, 01:24 PM

Congrats. Love the pics--amazing scenery. Did the motor get up to 180-190ish right after starting, just sitting at idle?

Or did the motor jump up to 180-190ish AFTER running hard and backing off? That's pretty common I think.

The only thing that throws me for sure so far is that I'd expect a closed cooling motor to be a good bit warmer than 140 most of the time. That feels low to me.Ghost, we were sitting for a while, then fired it up to putt around. The temp slowly kept creeping up until I raised the rpms a bit. That concerns me somewhat. I should be able to putt around indefinitely without overheating.
I only hit 140deg because that's what I'm running for a thermostat. I have no idea what stat (if any) was in it when the motor was dyno tuned, but I've always preferred lower temp stats. I really need to get someone in the boat that can look at the MEFI while we run.

Good to see the boat back on the water. Hope you get the gremlins fixed. That engine should easily be making more power than a 496 HO.Yes, it definitely should. The 496 made around 525~550hp. The dyno sheet on the 502 showed over 650hp/750tq, so I should have more power than the current props can handle. With the 496 hitting 5200, I was contemplating going to 1:36 gears in order to take advantage of the extra hp/tq of this motor. I just need to look into it a bit further.