oil change

[26 Ragaza]

I just purchased a 89 26ft Ragaza with a 2010 502Stock. It had a Fram filter and unknown oil in it. A friend who runs highly modified 502"S said ditch the Fram for K&N and use Royal Purple 15 40. What say you? This is my first visit to the site.

[Morgan's Cloud]

Oil threads generally get a lot of feedback based on two things..
People's preferences , not really based on knowledge or experience , or real life high tech knowledge and experience .

What type of selection/availablity you have at hand is normally a determining factor as you don't really want to be shipping in oil and filters if you don't have to .

Knowing your location / climate might be of help .

And now that you're 'on board' try out the info search function with key words like 'oil', 'oil changes' and 'oil filters' ..that'll give you about a years worth of reading, and I don't think the relevancy of the info changes at all .

[MOP]

First off welcome to the site, tons of info up here though you have touched on one of the most dragged out of all, like Steve said do a search then scratch your head awhile and go buy good name brand products and you will be just fine.

Steve you are mean the poor guy will have to read for three days those threads are endless!!

[Morgan's Cloud]

Maybe not Phil , but it will be interesting to see how big this one goes .. if it takes off ..:kingme:

[Ghost]

You can't really talk about the best oil without the best wax... ;)

[Pismo]

To answer your question.....A KN filter and RP oil would be perfect.

[joseph m. hahnl]

And So it begins :propeller:


can the 15w, Straight weight 40 is ideal or no less then 20w 50 in a multi.



http://paceperformance.com/images/M26606766.tiff

[CHACHI]

Joe, it would be ok to use a 15W or a 20W as long as the larger number is the final viscosity you would like to run.

The first number is rated at 0C and would have no bearing on the hot running performance (a 15W would be a better choice than a 20W in cooler climates BTW). The second number is the viscosity at 100C which is more like running temp.

A 0W40, 5W40, 10W40, 15W40, 20w40, 25w40, and a SAE40 all must meet the same cirteria at 100C to qualify to be a 40 weight.

On the other hand, the lower the first number, the faster oil gets pumped to your engines componets on cold start ups.

Another benifit to a multi-vis oil (ie, 10w40), they seem to hang on vertical surfaces better than straight weight due to the polymer blended in the oil.

Of course this is just my 2 cents and it was just a matter of time before I had to post. :)

Ken

[mattyboy]

:yes: I LOVE when Ken talks OIL !!!! it is like when Pearson talks paint. the old EF Hutton thingy ;)

[BUIZILLA]

anybody know who blends the 25W40 for Mercury?

[CHACHI]

Matty, thanks, but we both know paint is a much more colorful subject.

Matty, just sharing the knowledge. Isn't that what this place is about?

Ken

[CHACHI]

Jim, I know 4-5 years ago, Citgo was the oil of choice and at one time Bel-Ray was doing a gear lube for them but I don't know what gear lube it was.

Today, I am almost certain they are getting it packaged in the Chicagoland area, perhaps Gold Eagle, I don't know if Gold Eagle is just doing the blending and packing, or just the packing.

Mercury's TCW product is not being packed by the same house that does their Hi-Performance two cycle oil.

Ken

[mattyboy]

Ken,

yes it is a place to share info ,and I wasn't kidding, oil my not be colorful but when you respond to an oil thread you give real world examples and background which is great .

[Morgan's Cloud]

Something I've always been curious about ....

Once one understands the correct weight of oil to use for their location/climate/application , are all synthetics better than any dino oil ?

Are there synthetics that are more suited to marine applications than others ?
Are there cheap synthetics that we should avoid ?

Would the 'marine formulation/additive package' of the merc dino 25/40 and semi synthetic blend 25/40 make them superior over the same weight ' dino' automotive type' oils and synthetic automotive oils ?

Just as a case history , I ran the 25/40 dino merc oil in my daily commuter Honda bike for years. At about 110,000 miles I had to open it up for a valve job and the mechanic said he'd never seen an engine in such good overall condition ... and clean too.

[Just Say N20]

Lots of opinions about oil. Do you like Fords, Chevys, Dodges?

I have owned 17 boats, some running 2-strokes, the rest mostly SBC, but 2 454/350 hp GMs.

I boat in Michigan, and in the V8s I have always used straight 30 weight oil, usually Valvoline. 3 of the boats have been DONZI Classics that I have run pretty hard, usually putting about 100 hours a season on them. I have used everything from FRAM (I happen to like the gritty/rubber they put on the end so you can actually grab them to twist off), to NAPA Gold, etc. I have never had any oil related engine issues.

Bottom line is that I suspect all name brand oils today are good products, as are name brand filters. Is Royal Purple good to run in your boat? Sure! But it is probably not worth the extra expense for the amount of use your boat engine will get when compared to "dino oil." And yes, I realize that marine engines are subjected to a really Heavy Duty work cycle, but they are also designed for it.

If you like that extra margin of knowing you have something excellent (and expensive) in your engine, go for it.

Many of the folks in our marina, at least those with gas engines in their yachts, run Rotella 15W-40, or straight 30 and swear by it. And it's only $12.95 a gallon at Wallyworld. People spending $500,000 plus on their boats, are usually pretty careful about what they "feed" them. So I would say Rotella would be a good choice.

[joseph m. hahnl]

IMPORTANT: The use of non-detergent oils, multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality 20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic oils, low quality oils or oils that contain solid additives are specifically not recommended.
The chart below is a guide to crankcase oil selection. The oil filter should always be changed when changing engine oil.

70815

[Capevettes]

Joseph, Where are you finding the best deals on the Quicksilver oil? I like the synthetic 25/40. Walmart or an online source? Thanks.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Joseph, Where are you finding the best deals on the Quicksilver oil? I like the synthetic 25/40. Walmart or an online source? Thanks The best Price I've seen is $22.00 a gallon but then when you add the shipping cost that goes out the window. I think that buying from Walmart @ $6.00 a quart and free site to store pick up is the best you can do. I personally use 20-50 with the closed full cooler.

[Capevettes]

I'll probably stick with Wally World. Although here in Mass. our 6.25 % tax rate it's not such a great deal.

[CHACHI]

Something I've always been curious about ....

Once one understands the correct weight of oil to use for their location/climate/application , are all synthetics better than any dino oil ?

Generally speaking, synthetics are better than dino oil. They offer better oxidation stability, some fuel efficiencies, less volitile, better cold weather performance.





Are there synthetics that are more suited to marine applications than others ?


A Group IV or Group V synthetic would perform better than a Group III synthetic in any enviroment.



Are there cheap synthetics that we should avoid ?


It depends what you are trying to get from your oil. A Group III is a cheap synthetic, will it blow your engine up, no. Will it work in your engine, yes. I am sure there are people on this board using Group III synthetics with no issues at all. A Group IV or V synthetic will perform better than a Group III for a longer period.


Would the 'marine formulation/additive package' of the merc dino 25/40 and semi synthetic blend 25/40 make them superior over the same weight ' dino' automotive type' oils and synthetic automotive oils ?

Yes, espically in todays market. The marine formula has all the additive your marine engine needs to deal with moisture and corrision which is not found in conventional auto oils.

Does this mean you shouldn't use auto oil in your boat, no. most of us do.



Just as a case history , I ran the 25/40 dino merc oil in my daily commuter Honda bike for years. At about 110,000 miles I had to open it up for a valve job and the mechanic said he'd never seen an engine in such good overall condition ... and clean too.


This would make sense to me, the 25w40 viscosity, contains little of no polymer, so the transmission has really not much to shear so the viscosity will remain pretty consistant. Remember, viscosity is your first defense against wear.

Being a "marine" oil, it has a good slug of corrosion inhibitor and the last sample of it I checkd, it had a good slug of zinc and phophous for anti-wear. This coupled with (I am sure) very regular oil changes, well the results speak for themselves.



Ken

[Morgan's Cloud]

Thanks for that Ken , I like 'real info' .. I hope it's as useful to others as it is for me .

So in a nutshell , the Merc stuff is really very good and sort of precludes any need to go on a hunt for other 'high end' brand name oils ? (especially if those high end brands are not easy to get )

How do you know if an oil is a group IV or V as opposed to a group III ?

And while we're at it , what does the 'FCW' certification on the Merc oil mean anyway ?

[Pismo]

Mercs Synthetic, RP, Amsoil, Valvoline VR1, all great and the gold standard is Mobil 1 VTwin 20-50 but it's $10 a qt..yikes.

[CHACHI]

I have re-read my last post and want to add, all engine oils contain a corrosion inhibitor package. The FWC approved product has a different type of corrosion inhibitor package that is not normally found in auto product. The marine product also does not have the friction modifiers found in PCMO's (pasenger car motor oils).

As I stated, the Merc stuff tested out very well when we did a elemental analysis on it.

How can you tell a Group III from a IV or V? Short answer is price. A $5.00/qt synthetic is not going to be quality synthetic base stock. See Pismo's post. Honestly, $10.00/qt is reasonable.

The FCW certification means that the canidate oil passed a particular battery of tests that include viscosity, corrosion, filter plugging, foaming, areation, and a 100 hour general performance test.

Would an automotive oil pass these tests? Not all the tests I would guess, but the ones it would fail wouldn't impact the buying habits of 90% of the people on this board. After all, we still use car oil.

Personally, I use a motorcycle oil and depending on my mood it is either a petroleum or synthetic/petroleum blend, but it is a 20w50.

Ken

[Morgan's Cloud]

After a long period of stagnation my brain finally feels like it's growing a bit again .. :biggrin.:

The Merc stuff is readily available out here at the Merc dealer only, and for some unknown reason is more reasonably priced than the junk you can get at our version of Wally World.

Currently the Merc dino and synth blend are about $10 a quart. Over at 'Wally' there is (as an example) Castrol 20/50 synth blend for about $19 per quart !
A complete range of other oils completely useless and incompatible with our climate/location run between $13 and $17 a quart. (I guess that's what you get when a jobber packs a container for you ? )

The Royal Purple is available at a private dealer but is also pricey ..about $17 a quart.

Oddly , I found out a year or so back that an old aquaintance is the dealer for Amsoil and his prices are really good.

This was the main reason I made the remark about local availability in my original post.

Thanks again for that info (lesson) Ken .

[MOP]

Not technical just nuts & bolts stuff, always fill your oil filter before you install it that cuts the oil starvation time until pressure comes up.

If you have an upside down filter spin the engine with the ignition off!!!

[Morgan's Cloud]

What I do with the upside down filters Phil , is to pour just enough oil into them first to saturate the element but not too much so that it runs out before I can get them screwed down and seated.

[zelatore]

What I do with the upside down filters Phil , is to pour just enough oil into them first to saturate the element but not too much so that it runs out before I can get them screwed down and seated.



I do this as well. Right after I get done cursing the bastard that designed the thing upside down.

[Ghost]

Does the upside down version at least drain with the oil? Obviously it wouldn't drain completely, and would still make a mess, but does at least most of the oil go out of it?

If not, WTF would you ever make it upside-down for?

[Morgan's Cloud]

*I do this as well. Right after I get done cursing the bastard that designed the thing upside down*

Don , I forgot about the cursing part ... I also do it ..
In terms of 'engineering smarts' , to me it's about as clever as painting an engine which is going to be installed in the darkest part of the boat jet black.
Then kitting it out with black hoses, black starter motor , black manifolds , black ignition wires , black oil cooler ...etc and etc .

By the time a good mechanic knows his stuff he's 40 years old and what happens to his eyes at that point ? :mad: :banghead:

[gcarter]

What happenss if ya punch a hole in the top (bottom) of the filter?
Won't the oil drain.

[CHACHI]

I have punched a hole as George mentioned and I have also unscrewed the filter a touch to break the seal.

I let the filter drain for a bit and then remove it. I have never had a issue with oil all over the place.

I also do this when the oil is on the cool side and a touch more viscous.

Ken

[BUIZILLA]

Ken, just picked up a couple cases of the M1 15-50... it doesn't say Group 1, II, III, IV anywhere on the bottles... should it?

[CHACHI]

Jim, most manufactures do not say what group the synthetic base stock is.

Your best bet is to call their customer service line and ask what type of synthetic base stock they use.

Remember, Groups IV and V are synthesised base stocks, not highly refined petroleum as in Group III.

Ken

Forgot, Group I and II are petroleum

[zelatore]

I have punched a hole as George mentioned and I have also unscrewed the filter a touch to break the seal.

I let the filter drain for a bit and then remove it. I have never had a issue with oil all over the place.

I also do this when the oil is on the cool side and a touch more viscous.


Fortunately, I haven't had to deal with an upside down filter in a long time. Plenty of 90* sideways ones on Volvo diesels though. Love those things...there's nothing you can do to drain them, and you can't get a catch pan under them since there's too much stuff in the way. Just pack lots of oil-sorb sheets I guess! :mad:

Ah heck, who am I kidding. I spilled oil all over the steering rack just changing the oil in my truck last weekend, and that's a standard right-side-up filter. :bonk:

[margo]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]
put a small plastic bag over the filter and drop it in..loosen a little first..

[zelatore]

put a small plastic bag over the filter and drop it in..loosen a little first..

Since the reply feature isn't working these days I'm not sure if this is directed at my sideways Volvo filters or not. If so, I'm afraid it wouldn't help a lot. They're big filters; you'd need a small shopping bag to fit over them. But even then, before you get them off you invariably drool quite a bit of oil down the side of the block.

Luckily, later model Volvos (the D6 motors) are clean and easy even though they are upside down. They have a check valve in the filter that actually works. Did an oil change on one just last week and didn't spill a drop on either filter. The only thing I don't like about that setup is that you can't pre-fill the filter.

[VetteLT193]

Buiz... M1 15 50 is what i use. It isnt the best but is consistently near the top and priced decently. I can get it for about 5 bucks a qt. I also use the taller mobil 1 filters that hold an extra half qt. There is no way a 17 dollar qt of oil is going to be much better than m1. Check out bobistheoilguy.com for days of reading too