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Moody Blu'
03-10-2012, 05:11 PM
Hi all , I have a list of thigns I plan on doing to Moody Blu' soon.

As I said in Gcarters thread, my friend just moved into a house where the previous owner had a race car and had a separate warehouse style garage which is perect to lift my deck off and he lives 20 minutes away. Ill be doing the following, change my tank, swap my oil pan, paint the bilge, rewire, new drive with tilt and trim YAY, Paint the engine block, engine mount, etc....

I have all the major parts for this job already. So I'm just waiting on my friend to get the ok to do this and it will start.

I plan on doing a dual battery setup but im not sure if I should have them on each corner of the port and starboard side or in the centerline somewhere, but the question is where on the center line? the rear seat comp can only fit one battery... so where??? this is the only issue I'm wondering about as far as placement, everything else I have figured out as far as location of oil filters, gas water separator, trim and tilt reservoir and motor.

I plan on swapping out the cam as well as springs for now and adding rollers a little later on with a better ratio.

So I figured I would post this up and if there are any areas I need to look out for certain issues im all ears... I saw all the repairs g carter did... I think I will be taking off the bottom paint and getting it all smooth since I now have a bunk trailer lol. and it iwll be much easier to do the hull if i flip it over and get all that paint off.

I'm excited because I just recently cleaned and organized my entire garage and its insane all the new parts I have sitting around for Moody, just waiting to bring her back to life!

I plan on doing a circuit breaker type waterproof switch for all circuits on the boat.

so far i have this.
nav lights
headlights- yes im putting lights in the front!
Gauge lights
Blower
Stereo
trim and tilt On/off for power
Ignition system power(sub cut off for ignition key and lanyard kill)
engine compartment lights!
interior color wheel lights
vhf radio
bilgepump(on only-automatic always) NO OFF except for batter switch
acc1
acc2
cig lighter

I plan on putting this on the driver side(LEFT) foot well wall


I have to mention im pretty pissed off that built rite used crap staples for my $2K interior and now all the staples are rusted and have deteriorated. WTF??

gcarter
03-10-2012, 05:29 PM
#1: Get a set of dollies for the hull!!!!!!!

#2: Make sure you get a set of dollies.

#3: Rig some way to hang some come-alongs from the ceiling.

#4: Have fun!

Moody Blu'
03-10-2012, 05:33 PM
how much were they and where do u get em

gcarter
03-10-2012, 06:14 PM
Here ya go:

http://www.williamsengineering.net/7m.html

They stopped offering them for while, but it looks like they may be available again as they've raised the price a little bit.
These suckers are really worth the investment.

Moody Blu'
03-10-2012, 06:24 PM
ouch! 500 for both. hmm, we'll see! thanks for the link, i saved it!

maddad
03-10-2012, 07:47 PM
Broque, I'm real glad to see you posting about getting your boat back in shape instead of trying to sell it. Having a dolly under the boat makes it real easy to move about in the garage. I think I've got 50 or 60 bucks invested in the one I made. Good luck getting it in the garage ASAP.

Moody Blu'
03-11-2012, 10:20 AM
Thanks! We shall see if I get them! I'm more focused on getting her bullet proof and I only neeeed to rewire change the oil pan and tank for that... everything else is for fun.

Just Say N20
03-11-2012, 10:52 AM
I like your idea for the switch location. :)

Moody Blu'
03-11-2012, 12:47 PM
thanks for the pic! thats exactly where I want it! I am just wondering if I am being too detailed to have a switch with a breaker for every piece of electronics possibly even the starter too? I'm at 14 switches without a starter/breaker that would make it 15 switches. I think I would need a high amp breaker for a starter though and could cause more problems then anything.not sure though

nav lights
headlights- yes im putting lights in the front!
Gauge lights
Blower
Stereo
trim and tilt On/off for power
Ignition system power(sub cut off for ignition key and lanyard kill)
engine compartment lights!
interior color wheel lights
vhf radio
bilgepump(on only-automatic always) NO OFF except for batter switch
acc1
acc2
cig lighter


I just pulle dout my kevko race 12 quart oilpan and there were all sorts of goodies in the box, NEW era correct donzi decalsforthe sideof theboat, new oilpan gaskets, intake gaskets etc.... also a 1989 donzi catalog hehe

Moody Blu'
03-11-2012, 12:54 PM
heres my oil pan, I got the optional windage tray for it as well model f202 I had it painted with a marine zinc primer and then sprayed it with blue. I specifically asked him to send it with no paint on it so I can get it as corrosion resistant as possible.

I plan on hooking up an oil lline and pump to the drain plug to recirculate the oil for cold starts as well as a no mess way to change the oil.

http://www.kevkoracing.com/ford.htm

silverghost
03-11-2012, 01:43 PM
Adding Fuses & Brakers to a boat's electrical system is always a great idea.
I cannot believe that my 1972 Donzi project was originally built without a single fuse or breaker in sight on the entire boat..
What were they thnking at Donzi Marine ?
One has to wonder how many Donzi fires , or Donzi boats themselves burned down to the waterline because the boat had no fuses , nor breakers when originally built?

A starter motor breaker might be a good idea . But you would need a monster size breaker to handle the starter's cold cranking amps at 12 + volt DC.
You may however be able to put a large fuseable link in the main starter's positive battery cable line however?
This would be much simpler to do.

I would just add a breaker or fuse from your starter key switch to the starter solonoid's feed wire.

Has anyone here ever seen, or used, a breaker on the starter's large gauge battery cable ?.
I have never seen one used in this heavy DC current application.

mattyboy
03-11-2012, 02:14 PM
there are two types of circuits in your boat

switched and unswitched

each circuit should have breaker/fuses and wire which are correctly rated for the circuit

the main breaker should be at the battery or near as possible.


the base merc harness has 10awg for the main 12 volt bus. I used that for my switched circuit with a 30 amp main breaker at the battery. the switched circuit are for things that only work when the key is on gauges,trim tabs,in some cases old volvo with just tilt and such. so that feed has a breaker and is then wired into a fuse panel for each circuit


i then ran an 8awg wire connected directly to the battery for the unswitched power things like nav lights dock light trim pump bilge pump and the like again with it's own breaker at the battery and a separate fuse panel for the switches and circuits.


heavy draw items like the trim pump have their own 4-6 awg harness with inline fuses connected directly to the battery so i only have to fuse the control side of that circuit which i think was 5 amp.

Moody Blu'
03-11-2012, 03:22 PM
are there certain parts I should ground and others I shouldnt?

I was thinking about running 2-4 awg wire from the battery to the breaker/switch panel. the only thing that would need that much power is the stereo amp im putting in, subwoofer and all. but i figured that isnt a bad idea. especially if i use the wire for a jump start terminal area as well as charging circuit. if the batteries are all sealed in the engine compartment.

mattyboy
03-11-2012, 03:35 PM
not sure what you mean by ground some parts and not others. in a 12 volt system not much happens without a ground.


running heavy wires up to a breaker/fuse panel is not really a good idea. that is alot of hot wire that is not protected from overload. a main breaker back at or near the battery is better then run it to a breaker /fuse panel. in your scenario what stops a problem before the breaker panel?

gcarter
03-11-2012, 03:44 PM
Yep, what Matty said.
#4 wire would make a pretty good welder.

Morgan's Cloud
03-11-2012, 04:03 PM
If you're going to flip it , do it in the early stages .. Very early stages.
I presume the engine will be coming completely out , so make sure the tank is empty and off you go.
Working on the bottom with the boat upside down will be (almost) a joy and you'll spot any damage under that bottom paint that will help you determine if inside hull repairs will be needed later when you have everything dismantled.
Another plus is that you need the deck on for strength in rolling it over and if you do any unexpected damage , it will be in the early stages and won't matter.

At least that's what I've picked up having done two rollovers.

Good to see you back in action ! Maybe you weren't meant to sell 'er after all .

Moody Blu'
03-11-2012, 05:28 PM
matty and G I planned on a main circuit breaker or fuse as well for the positive 2-4 awg wire running to the breaker/switches.

as far as turning the boat over with the deck on theres no way im doing that. Im gonna do it like gcarter did and put support beams across the top where the deck would go. to much weight with the deck and possibility of damage to the deck. I dont plan on breaking anything..

im pretty much doing the following in order.

lift deck
pull engine
pull drive
pull tank
pull out all wiring
pull out all mounted devices
sand inner hull
flip hull
take off bottom paint with chemicals
sand hulll
mark and fill problem areas
sand hull to smooth shiny finish
flip hull upright
glass in new mounting areas
glass in new gas tank drain pipe
glass in new battery compartment holders
drill & seal larger holes for water drain
foam in new tank
paint inside of hull with gcarters rustoleum paint(maybe a diff color?)
cut areas of deck for speakers
mount band pass enclosed subwoofer to hull.
mount amplifier for sub and speakers
cut front of hull for barnegat hull lights
sand inner deck
glass in mounting area for engine components (back of back seat)
glass in reinforcement for front seat area
glass in reinforcement for rub rail
modify foot area ski locker for stereo location and sleeper...
paint inner deck bright white
install under deck lights
install engine area lights
install interior area lights
install barnegat hull lights
rewire entire boat with deck flipped over
route and install new gas lines

install new volvo 275T drive early model with hydraulic trim supposedly not sure i its a 280t got it from MOP..
install new oil pan
install engine fire
start engine and check for leaks.
put deck back on
install new rub rail


Splash her in the water!!!!!!! test run!!

buff entire boat
Install new donzi decals!!

the only thing im not sure if i should do is swap out my springs cam and lifters for a more aggressive cam.. Imnot changing the cam bearings if I do it and not sure if I should leave it alone or upgrade the cam while its out. and later on do the roller rockers and then at any point port the spare heads I have. each mod will let the newer cam breath more... opinions?

Morgan's Cloud
03-11-2012, 07:12 PM
Don't overestimate the weight of the deck . Two of us tossed mine around like an oversized Saltine cracker.
Once everything is out of your hull two people will be able to almost lift it by themselves .

These are not very heavily built boats .

Moody Blu'
03-11-2012, 07:42 PM
totaly understand that but i would rather not flip the hull with the deck underneath it.

mattyboy
03-11-2012, 09:13 PM
two things i would add

figure for the worse and double the timeframe and budget


also I would not modify the deck or hull too much without putting it in a jig first

gcarter
03-12-2012, 07:24 AM
Again, what Matty said.
I reinforfced the inside hull bottom first before flipping it.
I didn't modify the deck, well, I patched/filled some holes, before flipping it.
But, after hanging the deck for months, and having the deck upside down for months, it went/goes back together even though the hull hasn't been on the trailer for over four years.
Budget, yes, bigger!
I had well over $30K in mine before I started the engine.
Broque, when you look back on this, you'll think, $500 for dollies?, that's peanuts for something that makes the job so much easier.

mattyboy
03-12-2012, 10:37 AM
I always look to re-coup some of the cost for tooling up for a project after the project is done.

I purchased lifts , stands and other stuff to do my short "lift out motor clean paint bilge and re wire" project that took over a year and 12K. But what I did was re sell some of the tooling, bartered with some of it too.

so in the end if you spent 500 bucks for the dollies used them for the project and it made it easier on you then re-sold them for say 300 you rented them for 200 bucks

Moody Blu'
03-12-2012, 11:32 AM
What does everyone think about swapping out the cam/lifters/ springs?
I been looking at mechanical roller cams... no valve float etc..

mattyboy
03-12-2012, 11:58 AM
that's a "why not" thingy if your budget and time frame allow for it why not do it, if that's the case why not re-do the entire motor? one thing you are going to have to to is get a list of priorities, and work that list in order based on need,cost and time. Also when you stage parts make sure you can get replacement parts. Things like volvo transom seals gaskets and the like are time consuming to find.

I would focus on the soundness of the hull structure and tank first. once the motor is out and the drive is off you are going to know where you stand. You need to look at what you are going to add and what needs to be done. If the new drive is a 280T you are going to have to drill holes That will be a moment of truth. plan for the worst.

Moody Blu'
03-12-2012, 12:09 PM
yea two extra holes... for the drive.. even if i have to re glass the entire transom I'm not worried. I know for certain my boat has a thick transom being a H&M model (I guess) its at least 1 1/2" thick and when i drilled for the 4" thru hull exhaust the transom wood was nice and dry.

mattyboy
03-12-2012, 12:36 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]Moody Blu'
yea two extra holes... for the drive.. even if i have to re glass the entire transom I'm not worried. I know for certain my boat has a thick transom being a H&M model (I guess) its at least 1 1/2" thick and when i drilled for the 4" thru hull exhaust the transom wood was nice and dry.

{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]


HM boats didn't get a stronger layup or transom your boat was laid up just like all the other donzi at 188th st in 1971. if you have a 280t the two holes are drilled next to the transom cut out and that wood was usually cut and not sealed much lower than exhaust cut outs. If you have a 270t do you have the correct steering helmet tiller? the connection on the 270t was different from a 250 or 270 or even a 280t. that's the kind of stuff you need to lay out before you even get her top off.

Moody Blu'
03-12-2012, 01:12 PM
yes I went over all that with MOP when I bought it, the steering helmet is correct. its also a fresh water drive that had a 302 in back of it. I ust forget the model number... I messaged MOP about it the other day but havent heard back from him.

ok i was sut assuming that. I did think the older boats were more beefier then the newer ones as far as transom thickness etc... I do remember looking at a donzi members boat(JPBRESCIA) and hiw transom was WAY thinner then mine, his is a 80's 18'

mattyboy
03-12-2012, 03:13 PM
I'm surprised you hit wood doing your exhaust in that era they used an hour glass shaped piece of plywood as a transom foundation in the 16 and 18 and put cutouts for the exhaust exits so they didn't have drill thru the wood.

the early volvo boats didn't have a required thickness on the transom due to the way the volvo mounts. close was good enuff a little extra a little less no problem. the latter merc boats the transom had to be a certain thickness like 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 inches thick a little less or more it wouldn't work

the benchseat transom is around 2 inches thick it has the cut outs in the transom but they didn't use them mine was one of the first five 289 volvo boats produced. so the transom jig was probably for a v drive BB motor. you can see the pre made cutouts for the exhaust


to help figure out what you have
the 2nd pic is of the 280T


if it has the trim ears it is a 280T the 270T used one trim ram down at the bottom of the drive near the reverse kick up latch. also check if it is a 275 in some revision the 275 was only made to mate to a 4 cyl.

staarrl
05-19-2012, 03:52 PM
That's a 280 PT you have in the pic. The 280T has internal rams.
Bob

Madcow
05-21-2012, 09:15 AM
Here is the thread to my deck removal expirence. Good luck and have fun! Its agreat project that everyone should try once!

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?47197-Deck-Removal&highlight=fun+project

Moody Blu'
06-15-2012, 01:52 PM
thanks for the link, I found a marina in maryland called long point marina to help me for a great price.


I went down there to work on my dads 36' aft cabin mainship and did all sorts of work to it, told the owner John, about my donzi and he happens to have a old 20' cig.. he also races quads too so we talked about a bunch of stuff and then I asked if he would help with the deck off and he gave me a great price and he knows his ****...


One thing... we were talking about installing the gas tank and he mentioned how uscg will not allow any marinas to foam in any gas tanks anymroe and to let the tank sit on rubber instead... what are the opinions about this? I think i willbe doing the rubber mount method but as always I am asking questions so I go the right route.

I have an interview with a new company(2nd interview) for home theaters and smart hosues as well as yachts- this company did the largest yacht in the world with a/v electronics so I am stoked!

the project will be underway shortly I have almost all parts needed for this

I do need to find the OEM or close to OEM rub rails as my originals are shot...

I will more then likely take off all my orignal parts and have them rechromed before installing them depending on the wait time... the most important parts to be refinished are my throttle and steering helm and everything else can be bolted on later...

we are also bolting up my 275 T volvo drive

we may raise the x dimension on the boat but im not sure how much to raise it..


someone had told me I can bolt up a merc speedmaster lower unit to the volvo imnot sure about this... is there any optins or my vovlo drive to get a slimmer lower unit on it or what else can i do?

I already know ill be gaining at least 10-15 mph with the paint removal of the hull and trim from the drive which should put me around 70-75 mph... im at 62 on gps right now... I can also have my elephant ear prop repitched to about 25-26 and thinned a bit.. its at 24 1/2"x15 right now so ihave plenty of room to play with the prop...


also, I need to decide on a cam while the engine is out i plan on throwin in roller rockers and heavier springs as well and mroe then likely going with a solid roller cam to get away from valve float..

So i def need some answers on cams sooner then later I know there are some people i need to call for cam set ups.. however i wouldnt mind hearing from all of you with SBF fords

I also have a possibility of re configuring my headers to run a inner pipe and reroutingt he water so i can use any cam without worrying about reversion... however the one problem i keep thinking of even if i sort out the re routing of water formt he motor is coming off plane and possibly sucking water in... I do have internal flaps on my 4" exhaust tips but imnot sure that is enough to stop a cam from suckng in motor.....


thoughts opinions please..

Moody Blu'
06-15-2012, 02:21 PM
also, john at long point marina mentioned that if we take the deck off the boat may bow out ad be hard as hell to get the deck back on is there anything we can do to stop this from happening or is it not an issue?

Just Say N20
06-15-2012, 02:44 PM
One thing... we were talking about installing the gas tank and he mentioned how uscg will not allow any marinas to foam in any gas tanks anymroe and to let the tank sit on rubber instead... what are the opinions about this? I think i willbe doing the rubber mount method but as always I am asking questions so I go the right route.

gcarter has always been a proponent of coating the tank with a magic mystery goop and then foaming it in for the best possible support.

Having said that, when I looked at replacing the tank in mine, the tank fabricator, who has over 25 years experience said he NEVER coats his with anything. He told me that moisture being held by the aluminum is what causes issues. Improperly painted aluminum will do the same thing; trap moisture. He also said that in his 25 years of making aluminum tanks he has never heard of any of his tanks failing.

He recommended that I leave the tank open, exposed to air, and support it with 2" wide strips of 1/4" rubber, 2 strips per side. This is what I did.



we may raise the x dimension on the boat but im not sure how much to raise it..

Be careful about this. The higher you go, the more likely you are to get into trouble with air filter and exhaust manifold clearance issues if you are going to leave your hatch stock.




I already know ill be gaining at least 10-15 mph with the paint removal of the hull and trim from the drive which should put me around 70-75 mph... im at 62 on gps right now... I can also have my elephant ear prop repitched to about 25-26 and thinned a bit.. its at 24 1/2"x15 right now so ihave plenty of room to play with the prop...

Not to rain on your parade, but removing the bottom paint from the hull and outdrive MIGHT give you another 2 mph. Maybe.





. . .if we take the deck off the boat may bow out ad be hard as hell to get the deck back on is there anything we can do to stop this from happening or is it not an issue?

When I did my restomod, I left the hull alone with the deck off it for (6) months, three different times. I was able to get the deck back on, but it was a pain because the hull "relaxed" without the deck holding it in shape. I would run a couple 2 X 4s across the hull to hold it's shape.

Moody Blu'
06-15-2012, 03:03 PM
Thanks N20 I already have a cut out for my carb, its been like that since i bought the boat so nothing i can do about that. plus my hood scoop and the cut out gains me 100rpm when i take the hood scoop foam cover off.

I do have to see how much higher I can go before the manifolds come into clearance issues.... I want to find out how much higher I can raise the drive though. obviously keeping an eye of the height of the manifolds . ive already thought about cutting the hole larger for the entire carb to sit above the hood. Ive also thought about adding a 2" swirl torque carb spacer FIRST before raising the x dimension and then taking measurements for the drive... I also thoguht about the possibility of bolting a supercharger right tot he top of the manifold and cutting the hood for the charger...


from what im thinking raising the drive on this boat is fairly easy depending on how much i raise it too much and I will have to reglass the entire transom... the motor is easy as cake to raise, just add spacers under the motor mounts and wallah...

I may have to re glass the transom due to water, im not sure though.

I sure wish MOP still had that ASD6 drive for sale SIGH

gcarter
06-15-2012, 06:40 PM
A few words about Coal Tar Epoxy........
Coal Tar has been used for over 100 years for coating metal and concrete for protection in saltwater, and it'll probably last 100 years.
The addition of epoxy makes it more permanent and less messy.
Like any coating, it must be applied properly over properly prepared aluminum. Just like you would prepare your outdrive to repaint it.
As to foam, it supports your tank better than any other method because it completely supports the bottom of the tank over all its area. Since the inside of the hull is constantly changine shape, as well as the tank constantly changing shape, there's no way the tank is ever going to be supported in more than 6 or 8 places.........think about it.
In my TR, the tank is 6' long and weighs 500# when full, when you land off a wave, you might hit 5-6 Gs, maybe more.
Thank you, but I want every square inch of the bottom of my tank supported.

Now, in the case of cruisers where the tanks are mounted to shelves, I agree completely w/supporting them on rubber strips and straps.

Moody Blu'
06-15-2012, 06:45 PM
then why is it illegal for boat shops to use foam?

gcarter
06-15-2012, 07:32 PM
Probably because many won't (didn't) do it right. Just like Donzi (and others) didn't.

Moody Blu'
06-15-2012, 08:37 PM
so how are race boats setup? and if the uscg made it illegal isnt there still a danger in foaming in the tank due to water retention and corrosion of the tank? or is it just because the pipe they use to go under the tanks fo the baots made like that was crap tubing?

gcarter
06-15-2012, 09:24 PM
Not all performance boats use belly tanks. Most race boats I've seen use saddle tanks that are properly supported on flat surfaces.
Donzi Classics aren't so blessed.
When tanks end up in the bilge, and are not plastic (and flexable), they are a lot harder to support.
I still say foam is the best support system for aluminum belly tanks.

gcarter
06-15-2012, 09:55 PM
One more statement about tanks, aluminum, and so on.......................

Any process can be screwed up and it will fail much sooner than it should.
But that doesn't mean it can't be done properly.
The original gimbal housing in the TR had about 6 square inches corroded through (i.e.; it would allow water into the boat). At the time, it was about 20 years old, and had the original stock Merc paint on it.
I guess you could ask why Merc is allowed to produce aluminum castings that are simply painted and allowed to corrode through in less than 50 years and maybe sink the boat??????? Why isn't more required?
Well, there's a lot of reasons for it, but boats aren't designed to last 50 years, or even 20 years for that matter.l

In the same way, aluminum tanks CAN be prepared and coated properly, foamed in properly, and the only corrosion that will occur will be INSIDE the tank, not outside.
Also, if the tank compartment drain is epoxied into place, the foam will stay dry, it usually just isn't done properly, Donzi didn't.
I did it correctly though. And the tank MFGR prepped the new tank and coated it properly also.
I'm just not going to worry about it at all.

Just Say N20
06-15-2012, 11:13 PM
Just say "aluminum" and "fuel tank" and then sit back and be educated. :)

Moody Blu'
06-16-2012, 01:49 PM
what if you use 1" or so thick rubber to support the entire front back and bottom of the gas tank? and possibly a two compound rubber one really soft and the other heavier? In other words no strips the rubber covers the entire front, back and bottom?

and then bolt the tank down with the tabs that are on the new tank i have?

gcarter
06-16-2012, 02:35 PM
Sorry, no comment.

gcarter
06-16-2012, 03:38 PM
Broque, I'm not being rude, but you're in uncharted territory.
No one knows the answer to that.

Moody Blu'
06-16-2012, 04:26 PM
thanks fixx all I think john from long point marina will be checking out this thread so perhaps he will chck into that


btw I came up with a sick vinyl graphic scheme for the boat

its been hard to find the authentic gt40 graphic scheme that won lemans in 68-69 so i have to do more research but it will be authentic scheme im not sure the black outline is authentic

So I came up with a new graphic scheme for the donzi. It represents the Gt 40 car chassis # p1075 the first chassis to win back to back 24 hours lemans event in 68 (#9) and 69 (#6) so I'm representing both cars and giving it the number 69 I know its backwards but it represents 5 things.. the ford gt 40 winning lemans in 68 and 69, as well as the two different numbered cars(same chassis-frame though) my fathers infantry and the last one is my favorite, you can figure that out. It will have gulf stickers and the number 69 on the front, right or left rear side and both left and right side of the hull just like the gt40

dsparis
06-16-2012, 06:15 PM
And to add http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boatbuilder_s_handbook/fuel_standards_partj.aspx

Moody Blu'
06-17-2012, 06:45 PM
thanks for the link, heres a photo shop imade to get a feel for what I'm going to do

MOP
06-18-2012, 06:45 AM
Read the links below!

http://www.google.com/search?q=Is+it+illeagal+to+foam+in+a+boats+fuel+ta nk.&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a