1989 Team Warlock 28' World Class Offshore

[Greg Guimond]

A little "airborne" picture gift I ran across for Conquistador_del_mar's Team Warlock 28 New Year's purchase. It's a 1990 28 World Class Offshore with twin 502's. Boat runs in the low 80's and is located in the SoCal area.
:beer: to you Bill.

[Dave911]

Cool pic Greg. That's a shot of The mechanic who helped keep my 26 sutphen in top shape. Matt's mobile marine. Great guy, and obviously an enthusiast.
That 28 single BBC is gonna be a great ride!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
That is a fabulous picture - thanks for posting it!! I have now read quite a few articles about the Warlocks which are almost all very positive on ride and build. That guy looks like he might be standing - what do you think? Bill

[Sweet Cheekz]

Could be standing.....or flying out of the boat cause he is 10 feet in the air :eek:

Parnell

[Greg Guimond]

Dave911,
That is pretty ironic! What are the chances of me finding a random pic of a rare Team Warlock hull with your current mechanic in it. What town and state is he located in because the photo looks to be a pretty recent one. Having access to a guy who knows these hulls would be a good thing for Bill.

Parnell,
I agree, it takes a lot of onions to fly a 28 footer like that!

Bill,
These hulls are classic flat decks so I am going to put my money on the pic being a seated but "holy chit" shot at launch. The Offshore 28's were delivered as both twins and BBC singles but the standard seating was sit down chairs which I like a lot better. The hulls have a low profile. My 23 is like a point and shoot dagger with that snout. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that when you receive your Team Warlock it will be an 8' or narrower beam and it will be a sit down boat. Do you happen to have the write up on it?

[Dave911]

I'm pretty sure Matt's Warlock was a standup with twin 502's. Con Q - I sent you a PM with Matt's Mobile Marine Mechanics phone number. Happy hunting. D911

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
No, I don't have a brochure or any other write up on the Warlock at this point.

Dave911, Thanks for getting the phone number for me.

[Greg Guimond]

Here is the Powerboat test article as well as another post for a 28 Offshore in NorCal for datapoints. Cheers :wink:


1990 28" WARLOCK OFF SHORE BOAT - $49995 (brentwood / oakley)Date: 2012-01-02, 1:36PM PSTReply to: sale-9treq-2769628283@craigslist.org1990 Warlock twin engine 552 HP very low hours on motors new bravo drives. new interior cock pit & cabin, new water temp & water pressure. New thermastatic oil coolers, all braded stainless lines. Stelling headers, nose cones, lab props. new gauges, 93 MPH Indoor covered in Bethel Island storage.. Beautiful boat a must see! ****PLEASE SERIOUS CALLERS ONLY****Please call Gary, I'm in Discovery Bay (925) 864-7177

[scippy]

Bill

Good buzz on your Warlock!........ GG & Dave helping out pretty good
with picture & contact numbers...............I wanna know more myself.

[Greg Guimond]

Photoshoot ad from the first production 28 World Class Offshore built. This hull is #3 and still lives today in NorCal powered with twin SBC's. It is a 1987 which is interesting as my 23 is a 1987 as well. I think this confirms that these boats started as 1987 HIN's. I'm not sure yet when Tom Stolarz stopped the 28's production run. That is Stolarz driving.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
Apparently you were correct on the beam guess since it is 92" from the brochure. The weight seems to be around 4800 lbs with the single BBC. You sure can dig up the information - :yes:

[Greg Guimond]

I really like the Team Warlock's as you can now tell Bill. Remember to give me first dibs if you ever sell that boat :wink:
I also think you got the best of the color options to boot with your purchase, it will stand out but it is not dated like the reds. I'm sure the midwest snows aren't helping your delivery plans.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I have to wait for my check to clear with them anyway, but I have also been fairly sick since New Year's eve. Maybe if I went back to drinking I wouldn't have picked up this nasty bug. I will try to find someone local to get it for me. I already talked to one guy I trust, but I have two more if he can't do it. All Boats in Kentucky has a guy who will do it for $2/loaded mile, but I think my local guys can beat that. Herb is supposed to call me when the check clears. Bill

[MDonziM]

Cool picture, looks like he's just finishing a tune up.

Bill - Congrats, looks like a really nice boat. Look foward to hearing about how it runs in the spring.

- Marshall

[Greg Guimond]

Wow, I just ran across this 1990 Team Warlock 28 with twin small blocks.........looks to be 100% rebuilt :yes: Showed it to a friend but he could not handle the yellow.

MAJOR PRICE REDUCTION!! FRESH WATER FROM LAKE NORMAN, ONE OF A KIND, TOTALLY CUSTOM, WARLOCK 28 WORLD CLASS. NEW MERCURY SMALL BLOCK MOTORS, 325 HP, BREAK IN TIME ONLY, 3 HOURS ON MOTORS, EDDIE MARINE RISERS, SILENT CHOICE, REBUILT DRIVES, BBLADES LABBED PROPS, ALL RIGGING DONE BY TROY HANNON – SUPREME MARINE, NEW INTERIOR BY FINE LINE, NEW SEATS, ENGINE HATCH, CARBON FIBER DASH, GAFFRIG GAUGES, GARMIN GPS, TRIM TABS, SHORE POWER, FRESH WATER FLUSH, SWIM PLATFORM, NEW PAINT, NEW ALL AMERICAN ALUMINUM TRAILER, NEW WINDSHIELD, I SPENT OVER 80K REBUILDING THIS BOAT FROM THE GROUND UP, WITH NO EXPENSE SPARED. AWESOME STEREO, OPTIMA BATTERIES, BILLET BATTERY HOLDERS EVERYTHING IS NEW. THREE NEW COVERS – COCKPIT, BIMINI, AND FULL COVER. TWO YOUNG CHILDREN LEAVE ME NO TIME NO USE THIS AWESOME BOAT. TRULY TURN KEY, THIS BOAT DOES NOT NEED ANYTHING. BOAT IS IN MINT CONDITION. I HAVE OWNED THIS BOAT SINCE 1998 AND HAVE TAKEN EXCELLENT CARE OF IT. ABSOLUTELY NO DISAPPOINTMENTS HERE. MAKE OFFER $39,800. Mike Fagan 561-214-5787

[BUIZILLA]

fresh water from Lake Norman?

that pic is from the Haulover county docks in North Miami, definately NOT fresh water... :nilly:

[Greg Guimond]

It is in storage now in Miami evidently.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I am striking out on finding someone to pick up the Warlock for me since they are all busy. If something doesn't break soon, I will make the 800 mile run to get it. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

What zip code is the boat currently located in?

[Dave911]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

I was doing some research to bring a motorcycle in from Seattle. I'd ride her, but no time w three little kids. Anyway, I posted my request on uship.com last night, and I've gotten three reasonably priced bids already within 16 hours. U might look into it...

[Conquistador_del_mar]

What zip code is the boat currently located in?

--------------------------------------

42518

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Dave,
I will be trying U-ship. Thanks, Bill

[smidgen too]

Bill I used Uship to move Cary from Texas to Michigan. They set me up with J Daniel Marine 800 488-5933 he did a very good job moving the Cary. Mark

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill I used Uship to move Cary from Texas to Michigan. They set me up with J Daniel Marine 800 488-5933 he did a very good job moving the Cary. Mark

----------------------------------------------

Mark,
Speaking of the "hurricane" Cary, did your brother finish it? I lost track of the progress. I always thought that boat was awesome! Bill

[smidgen too]

Bill, the Cary made it over to his hoist late last fall, but not on it's own power. :boggled: My brother needs to finish the electrial wiring in the new dash. It now has new paint & 3 newly rebuilt 468cu engines & rebuilt drives so it is close to being done, mabe next summer ?????:rolleyes:

[olredalert]

----You were right about the lift, Mark!!!!.......Bill S

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I put the moving job on Uship this morning and already have 3 bids as low as $1175!! It would cost me over $600 between gas and lodging if I drove up to get it. I am trying to finalize the deal with one of the bidders right now. Thanks again guys, Bill

[Dave911]

Good stuff. And just like any other web-based "service"...I'd make sure the shipper you select has a good reputation before they touch your boat. And good luck. D

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I get online this morning to a flurry of declining bids between two shippers. I had a total of around 25 bids! I booked with a guy for $929.40 who will pick it up today or tomorrow and deliver it within 2 days - what a world!! So it ends up costing only $300 more than if I spent 3 days on the road with all the possible hassles. I can't wait to see it! Thanks again, Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

The 28' Warlock will be here by Tuesday evening!! I am so excited to see it and discover the boat's build, etc. I will take and show pictures in the next few days. Bill

[Ghost]

Sweet! Here's wishing it a nice, uneventful trip to your place.

[Greg Guimond]

Here's hoping for a smooth transport of the 28 Bill :yes:

[woobs]

I used U-Ship to bring my 18C from Seattle to (near) Toronto and had a great customer experience. I couldn't believe the low price and great service with the provider I selected.
Highly reccomended.
Good luck with the transport.
S.

[Greg Guimond]

One more Team Warlock 28 for the data file .............interesting on the 90 gallon tank.


1990 Warlock 28' - $25000 (lake havasu)Date: 2011-11-27, 1:48PM MST
Reply to: sale-kde6e-2723265254@craigslist.org (sale-kde6e-2723265254@craigslist.org?subject=1990%20Warlock%2 028'%20-%20%2425000%20(lake%20havasu)&body=%0A%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmohave.craigslist.org%2Fbo a%2F2723265254.html%0A)
28 foot 1990 warlock
-454 built to 502's
-IMCO exhaust
-Bravo 1 outdrives
-New amps, subs and speakers
-CD changer
-new 90 gallon fuel tank
-New gauges
-new trim indicators
-Chrome valve covers
-New starters
-new impellers
-Hydraulic power steering
-New throttle cables
-New trim tabs and steering wheel

Asking $25,000 or best offer, also considering trades for property email for pictures and more info, includes trailer

[Greg Guimond]

I really like the blue/black gel coat colors .........

[dsparis]

I watched a show on A&E last night called "Shipping Wars". One of the participants mentioned they were working with
U-Ship. Interesting to say the least.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I really like the blue/black gel coat colors .........

---------------------------------

Greg,
The darkest gelcoat color is a really dark blue. My Warlock made it here at about midnight last night in perfect condition except for some road film from a little rain it had to go through. I spent until 2AM cleaning it up a little, installing a fan to dry it out (not that wet), and studying it. I would say the gelcoat is a 9+ with looking like a 2 year old boat! The interior is near mint. There is a stainless rail behind the windshield that even has two 18" flip up wind deflectors. There are two 27 series batteries with a Perko switch. The engine compartment is cherry! The trailer looks almost new with great looking mags and nearly new tires. The driver said the surge brakes worked perfect, too. The previous owner even left all the stuff like ropes, life jackets, 3 large blue bumpers, first aid kit, etc. I could not be more pleased. Thank you again for pointing it out, Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I watched a show on A&E last night called "Shipping Wars". One of the participants mentioned they were working with
U-Ship. Interesting to say the least.

---------------------------------------------

I also watched that show last night. They were bidding against each other for the jobs to the point of not even breaking even sometimes - crazy! Great for the customers, but horrible for the shippers. I was shocked last night to find out the $139.30 I had to pay upfront to Uship did not go to the shippers at all. I gave them a $60 tip for their great work, so they only got $850 for driving the boat 840 miles! Bill

[zelatore]

I happened to catch the 'shipping wars' show last night as well. My thoughts:

I wouldn't want any of those jerks touching my shipment! They didn't seem to have a clue what they were doing!

I can only hope the producers were telling them to 'play up' the emotional BS for "better" TV.

Let's see, a professional trucker with a Ford dually towing a Catalina 27 and an unnamed 30-ish foot down-east powerboat on a single over-stressed trailer coast to coast. (I think at one point he said they were about 35,000 lbs...seems a bit much for an F350/450 to me) First he bangs the boats into each other when loading them (not hard, but certainly enough to leave a scuff), then he damages his truck when the overloaded trailer flexes allowing one of the stanchions to hit the truck bed, so he hack-saws the thing off in a huff. Then he gets busted by the DOT for having a cracked wheel on the truck ($2K fine), then he's so PO'ed at the fine that despite being nearly out of fuel he goes straight to a hotel where he runs out of diesel. Then the next morning he finds a construction site with nobody around so he starts to help himself to a few gallons from their tank when a worker turns up, so he then sucks several mouthfuls of diesel out of that guy's tank in an attempt to get a siphon going only to fail. He's then saved by a fuel truck turning up at the construction site who fills his jerry can for him. Then he nearly gets sick from all the diesel he's drunk while walking back to his own rig where he proceeds to somehow loose the jerry can spout down the filler of his truck, giving him a good excuse to shout as his wife some more while she fixes the problem for him which in turn allows him to throw the spout she just extracted across the parking lot in a lovely display of emotional control. He then completes his deliveries several days late, telling one of the owners that the scuff from banging the two boats together while loading will 'probably just buff out', nearly falling off a ladder while inspecting the Catalina during off-load, then trying to up-charge the owner of the just-delivered Catalina by claiming it actually weighs in over 11,000 pounds and that should cost the guy an extra $2K.

Yup. Exactly the sort of professional trucker I always look for!

BTW, I know there are a few sailors on this board. How many of you have ever seen a Catalina 27 that weighed 11,000 lbs? I think the only way to get that much weight in that hull is to fill the salon with concrete! The boat weighs in about 7500 lbs dry; maybe, MAYBE 9000 lbs wet WITH a trailer.

So, the moral of this story is: just be careful who you get on U-ship. I've used them with decent results, but there are some winners out there!


Oh, and no, I didn't set the DVR to record any more episodes. :)

[CHACHI]

Bill, I am glad this turned out well, you just never know.

Good luck with the new arrival and keep us posted.

Ken

[Greg Guimond]

It sounds like the Team Warlock 28 is everything the broker said it was to me and then some. NICE when the purchase exceeds expectations. I think the single BBC is the best way to go and I assume that it is a sitdown boat?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thanks, guys. I did a full exterior cleaning this afternoon and removed the KY stickers, etc. It is an extremely clean boat and trailer! What I thought was a midnight blue in the darkness last night is actually black like you said, Greg. It has two fuel fills so you can fill it from either side - they run together. It has the fancy Bennett trim indicators which I have never seen before now and quite a few other goodies that I was not expecting like a depth gauge/alarm and a really nice stereo system. It has halon in the engine compartment and two extinguishers in the cockpit. The valve covers run to a custom SS puke tank and I was surprised to see aluminum heads. Overall, I am outrageously pleased with the boat! Greg, I can stand and drive, but it will not be as comfortable as the Martini with more freeboard. Bill

[Dave911]

Sounds like a great boat! Hope you get many years enjoyment. Dave911

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thank Dave,
I drove my wife out to see it tonight and she was excited about the look and appointments. The 700HP+ engine and IMCO Extreme Advantage drive with the external IMCO hydraulic steering was not any big deal to her, but she did like the colors, interior, stereo and pull out/drop down 3 step SS ladder on the swim platform - lol. Pictures will be coming. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, with this hull design I think you will not miss standup bolsters as much as you think. There is something about a sit down
long deck hull that runs high and free that makes for a pleasant rough water ride. You will, however, be a little thrown by the lack of freeboard at first in heavy water :wink:

[RickSE]

Warlock is a West Coast boat right? When looking at the side profile of a boat, why do all the West Coast boats seem to have a bow keel with a sharp angle, almost a straight line, as it drops off the bow? They just don't seem to have the curvature in the keel that the East Coast boats do. To me it makes the West Coats stuff look more like a lake boat insteat of an offshore as if the bow doesn't have enough meat to bust through waves, only bounce up. Sorry I'm not trying to be critical of this design, in a way I'm just wondering where this feature came from and why did it seem to end up out west.

[Greg Guimond]

Rick, are you referring to the area where the trailer bow stopper meets the boats eyelet?

[RickSE]

Yes Greg, that's it. Just wondering if that design has origins somewhere that made it's way out west.

[Greg Guimond]

I happen to know that Tom Stolarz designed the 28 boat from the ground up. He had raced a fair amount of APBA with success I believe. Even as old designs these hulls are known to be very good rough water boats and the snout serves to shear water back to the bow deadrise very effectively. The bow deadrise is super steep as compared to a Donzi 22 for example. Drop the nose and let her eat while the others try and keep up. It'll look like waves are going to wash back onto you but that never seems to happen in all but the heaviest seas. I suspect that the reverse radius in the bow is there for a reason but it would be cool to get more info once Bill actually runs the hull in open seas.
:hyper:

[Greg Guimond]

Speaking of freeboard. I saw a Mag Sport brochure that indicated the Mag has 34" of freeboard. I'm curious if this is accurate and how much freeboard you have on the Team Warlock Bill as compared to say either the Mag or your Martini. I think the best way to measure is from the floor of the respective boats to the top of the gunnel where your arm might rest to keep it simple.
:confused:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

A few pictures I took today. Later, I will get some with the full sides of the boat that really show the profile. Bill

[Dave911]

Really stunning boat. nice pull! d

[Ghost]

Wow. Beautiful boat in amazing condition. That's going to be FUN.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Speaking of freeboard. I saw a Mag Sport brochure that indicated the Mag has 34" of freeboard. I'm curious if this is accurate and how much freeboard you have on the Team Warlock Bill as compared to say either the Mag or your Martini. I think the best way to measure is from the floor of the respective boats to the top of the gunnel where your arm might rest to keep it simple.
:confused:

-------------------------------------------

Greg,
I will try to remember to make the measurements tomorrow. I am also curious. Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I decided to run back out to my storage business tonight to check on a heat lamp for the Warlock since it is not winterized. Here are the slightly surprising results of the measurements. I measured from the floor to the top of the cockpit sides where the driver is located as well as to the top of the steering wheels. I will list the results in ascending order of the cockpit freeboard, but the steering wheel heights to not follow the same order.


27' Magnum - cockpit 29" wheel top unknown since the console is not installed This is why I installed a lower standing deck pit in the Magnum floor by 8.5" making it a total of 37.5" freeboard in the cockpit which is more than even the 36' Cigarette.

25' Martini - cockpit 34.5" wheel top 42"

28' Warlock - cockpit 36" wheel top 38"

36' Cigarette - cockpit 37" wheel top 41"

As you can see, the Martini has the highest steering wheel which is why it is so easy to drive while standing. I am 6' 2" and the Martini feels great standing , but the Warlock seems a little low. Only a 4" difference, but apparently it makes a large difference in the feel. Bill

[CHACHI]

Bill, nice score.

Ken

[BUIZILLA]

Bill, you got the first wild deal of this year, who will get the second??

IMO, this WILL be the next screaming deal for someone....

fresh 420's, unbreakable TRS's, on an alum. trailer no less, priced right..

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/14558 (http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/14558)

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, wow those photos tell the story. Very, very clean hull and the long deck interior looks like you might even be able to bunk out under there on the facing bench seats. Is the potti still in place? I also really like the windshield set up and dash.

:clap:Overall, I bet it holds as the best deal of 2012. Now lets see if it runs like :superman:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Hey guys,
I am glad to hear you all think it is as nice as I do. I really lucked out on this one. It will not be very kind on fuel consumption with the Holley 1050 Dominator and 548CID engine, but I don't usually run over 3800RPM so maybe it won't be horrible. I will be adding a little racing fuel to the premium to make sure there is no pre ignition detonation. Can anyone tell what brand headers they are? Lightning? It has MSD ignition with a rev limiter chip which I was glad to see. I was a little surprised that it has the baffled Corsa tips, but the shipper said it sounded like a prostock car when they fired it up at the dealership to show it ran perfectly before he took off with it.
Jim, that Formula looks like a dream machine at an unbelievable price! Greg, it has the hole for a potti, but there is not one installed. I will be checking everything out and doing an entire maintenance before taking it out, but I anticipate a great riding and relatively fast boat. Thanks again, Bill

[Ghost]

Bill, interesting info on the seated/standing heights. (The smaller Cig 24 has a tilt wheel to mitigate the problem.)

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
Where did you get the picture of the blue 28' Warlock when you showed it in comparison to the red one? That is my boat from the OH numbers which I can barely see from the shadows in the gelcoat after I removed the KY numbers. In the picture you showed, the upholstery looks tan so someone must have totally changed out the upholstery which is why the white upholstery looks so good.
Did you know the hull and deck are bolted together on these boats? I am getting more impressed with the build as I keep checking things out. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, I can't really remember where I found that photo but I did know it was your boat when I saw it, thus the post. My 23 is also bolted and tabbed together. One thing though is the floor should be ply so be sure to check that out as you progress through the "get to know ya" discovery phase. Would love to see a seated driver shot, your measurements are a little less sit down then I might have thought. Maybe the tilt helm would be a later add on although I think you will find the sit down aspect to be pretty comfortable overall. Does the HIN start with TPI ?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Yep, TPI28088B989 - I just got the title work yesterday. Herb had told me there was no title on the trailer on the phone, but it was also included in the paperwork. Funny you mentioned the tilt wheel - I was already thinking about that. The floor is rock solid in the one I just bought, but I have to wonder if it might have been replaced. Considering how perfect so many aspects of the boat seem to be, my guess is that it was always garaged and maintained perfectly. I can't thank you enough for pointing it out!! I really look forward to getting it out as soon as I can do a full maintenance and get a good day. I just thought it was bizarre that you had a picture of when it was an Ohio registered boat. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

I am glad you grabbed it. These hulls are rapidly dissapearing and it is great to see it go to a good home and one that will improve it even more over time. Team Warlock and Tom Stolarz have somewhat of a storied past as I trust you will find out as you own it. Some of the guys on this board may know of him from "back in the day" before my time. I'm still trying to find out when Stolarz stopped making the 26 and 28 hulls and switched over to the slightly different 27 and 29 which were more modern boats. I want to say perhaps mid 90's but have not hammered that down yet. I'm still looking. Stolarz went on to run the steering shop WPM Marine for many years. As I was hunting for my 23 one day I was able to actually raise him on the phone in CA where he still lives and most likely is early 70's ish. I told him I had what I thought was the only OB 23 World Class that he ever built, blah, blah blah. There was a pause on the phone line where I thought he had hung up. Then, after a cackle or two he says "why the hell you so proud of that, I've had that OB 20 feet in the air bunches of times, can't believe it still floats!!" and then says he has to go and hangs up :rofl:

My 23 hung together for many years but this year I finally broke the transom going airborne on the Hudson one day searching for my youth or some such nonsense. I'll need to figure out the "next steps" so to speak but I digress :yes:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Ouch on the transom, but I am guessing you will replace it? It sounds like he is a little bit of a jerk from your conversation with him? Do you know if he made any Kevlar Warlocks? Bill

[Greg Guimond]

I did not really take any offense to his comment. I figured I was probably about the 1000'th person who might have asked him a question from "back in the day" so he had to be pretty bored with the whole thing. I would call the response curmudgeonly :wink: On the Kevlar, that I can say I have never heard of TPI using. He did, however build several boats for race only use I do know that much. He loved building cats and built some rad ones back in the day like the attached SXT. I'm not sure if WPM still exists but they were kind of an early Latham. The man only built quality.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
I don't hear the word curmudgeonly very often, but I think you used it in the right context here - lol. I asked about Kevlar since some of the places where I can see the glass reminds me of my 1985 Kevlar 23' Eliminator. I can't quit taking looks at the Warlock - it is an absolute time capsule boat with some great improvements. I am really stoked about taking it out! That red cat is really different - awesome! Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
If I had read the writeup you posted, I would have known that they used AME 4000 resin with bi and tri glass along with Divinycell in the sides. A well built boat for sure! Thanks, Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Is AME 4000 also known as "Kevlar" ? Is that considered more of an exotic material?

Also here is a post that sheds some more light on the Team Warlock history. It revolves around the more prevalent SXT cats but applies to the World Class V hulls as well. The history was Team Warlock, then Ultimate Warlock, then Carter Reed bought it and changed it to Warlock Powerboats. Here it is.........vintage 2002.

Cord,
I sent you an e-mail but to answer some of these questions, Tom Stolarz(Hope I spelled that right) who is now WPM(Warlock Performance Marine) originally designed the 25 SXT in the mid-late 1980s, as Warlock Powerboats, he later sold the company and it went through a few owner/management groups before being purchased by Ultimate in December 1995, they bought the original molds and became Ultimate Warlock, then in late 99 or early 2000 they changed their name to Warlock Powerboats.There have been relatively minor changes to the hull bottoms, I know they added some rocker to some of the later hulls that were built for the Blackhawk drive and the transom notches may be a little different sized on some of the earlier hulls.
The earlier hulls benefit from a higher x dimension, propeller technology has improved greatly in the last 10 years so adding a shortened drive helps them to go faster and handle better. I personally love the hull, it's not as fast as a Skater but is a very good boat for it's size, it is more comparable to a 25 Eliminator than it is to a Skater. By the way there are three different decks that were built for the 25, the standard deck, the race deck which had a narrower cockpit and a molded in section in front of the rear hatches and also a center console kind of utility deck. I'll sure that there are others that know much more than I do about these hulls but I will try to answer any other questions that you have.
Caleb

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I am not an expert in resins, but AME 4000 is a vinylester resin known to be both strong and water impervious. From my limited knowledge, vinylester resins will prevent blistering on the hull bottoms due to osmosis. Kevlar is a type of laminating material known for its strength and light weight compared to other glasses. The Warlocks are apparently very well built using the AME 4000 and the multi directional glasses. Maybe someone with more knowledge can shed more info here. I was seeing the really nice glass work in the engine compartment which is why I figured it was built with some good materials. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

A very topical excerpt on AME 4000 versus regular resins.........................

1989 was also the first year that Correct Craft used AME epoxy resin instead of polyester resin that all other boat companies were still using. AME 4000 was half the weight of polyester and is more than twice as strong. This is huge in being able to handle multi-directional stress. In the mid 80's Correct Craft had an issue with the floor delaminating from the sidewall right by the front motor mount on both sides. The reason for this is polyester resin does not expand and contract very well. When the engine heats up and cools down day after day the resin become brittle and weak and will seperate from the sidewall. This isn't a rampant problem but 84-86 were the worst years for this. Of course, these problems didn't show up until the late 1990's. It wasn't like in 1991 you had a floor delamination. If you ever get a boat like that the fix is pretty simple and not much money. The fact that the 1989 uses AME epoxy resin guarentees you won't have this problem with your boat. Any other questions please let me know. We love old boats - of course to us 1989 is not that old. We just had a 1965 Ski Nautique in for an oil change last week.

[Greg Guimond]

Another tidbit ............

A few pages back a reference was made to AME 4000 and 5000 resin blends. Much has been made of resin types and promoted by boat builders as providing extra strength due to its use. Let me be perfectly clear, there is zero strength in the resin. The strength is in the glass. AME 4000 and 5000 resins are very good, but not because of their strength. They are a blended combo of polyester (normal boat resin) and vinyl ester resin. Vinyl ester tends to be more resistant to blistering, is more flexible, thus is not quite as prone to cracking, and in general cures more thourghly than a standard polyester resin over a given period of time. But boat "A" made with straight high grade polyester can be, and many times is, just as strong as boat "B" made with a vinyl ester blend. It depends upon the laminate schedule used. Again the strength is in the glass. And in any laminate schedule, the higher glass to resin content ratio, the better the product. Vinyl ester resins can produce a boat whose appearance is very good. But, that does not mean that a polyester based resin cannot be just as good in appearance. It depends upon the builder and the care they take in production much more than the type of resin used.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg, Thanks for the AME 4000 info. I was just under the dash checking out something and was surprised by the beautiful glass work. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Ok so the plot thickens. When is the last time that a "matching" little brother turned up Bill. Here is your boat, same gel coat colors, same 1989 year, and also looks lo be in excellent condition. It is the 23 footer. I think I'm seeing double :eek: Very cool :cool:

23' TEAM WARLOCKDate: 2012-01-16
Reply to: sale-hsvwx-2802642340@craigslist.org1989 23' Warlock, Mercruiser 454 330hp motor, Imco exhaust, MSD Ignition, aluminum intake, Dominator Carb, Bravo 1 drive, Mirage 3-blade Stainless Steel prop, Bennett dual ram trim tabs, Bennett offshore trim indicators, Autometer Carbon fiber gauges, matching bimini, Pacific tandem trailer with new tires, BEAUTIFUL boat!!! Current reg and tags on both. No dealers, brokers, low-ballers, Sacramento 916-677-6621

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Mini-me? Cool looking 23'. Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I was just out checking something on the Warlock when I remembered that the sides were supposed to be made with divinycell. Wow! I pounded all the way down the sides of the boat and it sounds like a typical boat where you would only pound at a bulkhead - in fact it was not very noticeable where the bulkheads actually were. It should be a very quiet riding boat except for the engine in it. It really is a well built boat. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Here is an interesting post on Divinycell use .............

Divinycell is a closed cell core material that comes in a wide range of densities. It ranges from 38 kg/cub. m. to 250 kg/cub.m. The test I witnessed was performed on 38 kg/cub.m. which is the weakest and least expensive. When it absorbs the resin it becomes more dense and increases it's strength to density ratio while retaining it's dimensional stability and residual strength. All of these specs are way higher than that of end grain balsa and are the highest in it's class of composite core materials. It's ductile qualities are also excellent for sandwich core construction as well as other applications where they are subject to prolonged impact or slamming loads. It absorbs energy when deflected without structural failure. In the event of failure, due to it's similar properties with the glass and mat v/s dis-similar with the balsa creating a stronger bond, delamination would occur over a much smaller area than with balsa.

Divinycell also has along with superior adhesion properties, better peel strength, higher chemical and thermal resistance as well as much better resistance to water absorption when compared to balsa and in turn will not rot which is why most people are having cores replaced to begin with.

Balsa is a lot better than a lot of products out there but no where near the best. There are a lot of great composite products out there such as Lantar coremat, spheretex and spherecore, airex, corecell and the list goes on, but divinycell is hard to beat.
Do it the proper way with divinycell and don't worry about rot or delamination again!

Last edited by hydroholic; 11-01-2011 at 03:20 PM.

[Greg Guimond]

and here is a blurb from a 1990 Team Warlock cat brochure.................

The hull consists of Hand Laid Tri-and Bi- Directional Cormat and Corfab Materials, 4 Full Length Stringers with Resin and Fiberglassed Interior Wood. Fully Glassed Deck Braces and Divinycell Core.

[Greg Guimond]

Here is another datapoint for Team Warlock 28's. Looks like my bot found this 1990 with twin 454's .....................

28 foot 1990 Team Warlock World Class Offshore
>> -454 built to 502's
>> -IMCO exhaust
>> -Bravo 1 outdrives
>> -New amps, subs and speakers
>> -CD changer
>> -new 90 gallon fuel tank
>> -New gauges
>> -new trim indicators
>> -Chrome valve covers
>> -New starters
>> -new impellers
>> -Hydraulic power steering
>> -New throttle cables
>> -New trim tabs and steering wheel

Asking $25,000 or best offer, also considering trades for property. Email monsterenergy_87@yahoo.com (monsterenergy_87@yahoo.com) for pictures and more info, includes trailer. My number is 928 208 6744 (tel:928 208 6744) if you wanna see it .

[Dave911]

Nice pic. Location is the "Sand Bar" Lake Havasu / River. "Tide" is high. Greg - I was not aware you were running a bot to pick up obscure boat pics. Cool.

[Greg Guimond]

Speaking of Havasu this ad gives some indication to when the old style 28 that Bill has, stopped being made. This 1996 is actually from Ultimate Warlock, the next in the ownership line after Tom Stolarz and Team Warlock. These Euro's were even more rare and were offered in 24 and 28 and it looks like it has the original Bravo 3 drive as well. Rumor has it that it was a 25 degree deadrise hull. That would mean that the 24 degree Team Warlock 23, 26 and 28 "World Class Offshore" models ran from 1987 to 1995. A good run indeed...........

28' Warlock Power Boat - $24000 (Cd'A, ID)Date: 2012-01-30, 8:18PM PSTReply to: gyzwp-2826884362@sale.craigslist.org1996 28' Warlock Euro. 454, Bravo 3 dual prop drive with shower. Expertly maintained only adult driven and no modificaitons. Stored in heated garage year round not in the water. Mint conditon inside and out. Originally from Lake Havasu we brought it up here 2 years ago. Sadly due to the scamming activity on CL please phone with any questions. Thanks Bill (2o8) 8one8 -3134

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
Thanks for the additional information. It would be fun to see my older one beside one of these newer ones for comparisons. The one you show would include the integrated swim platform in the length. Bill

[yeller]

Greg, you always bring up the boats I love. I looked hard for a Euro before my 22, but couldn't find one. I LOVE those boats! That pic doesn't do the boat justice. They look killer sitting in the water

[Greg Guimond]

yeller, I have NEVER seen an Ultimate Warlock 28 Euro for sale so this is one rare piece. Here is a picture of a 24 in the water which would give an idea of how cool the 28 would look. I know where there is a 24 Euro which to your point is hard to find. This one has a 500 in it to boot.

Bill, there was a time when Ultimate boats did some of the rigging for Tom Stolarz and Team Warlock. When the transition occured I guess it was logical that Ultimate buy the company/molds and create Ultimate Warlock Powerboats in the mid 1990's or 1996 to be exact based on the boat for sale. With a different company at the helm I can't say if the layup schedule was as good as your Team Warlock 28.

[Greg Guimond]

Here is the evolution of Bill's 28 to what would become the Warlock 29 step hull.

"Team Warlock" - 1987 through probably 1994-95. Tom Stolarz era
"Ultimate Warlock" - December 1995 through 1999
"Warlock" around 2000. The for sale ad is wrong and it is actually an Ultimate Warlock. This is when the hull changed to a pad bottom under Carter Reed.






Up for sale is a 1997 Warlock with a stepped hull, completely remodeled in 2004, with alarm, everything on this boat is custom including an Outerlimits interior. It has a fully built JC performance engine, Chevy bigblock 568ci, with supercharger, canfield heads, and dry sump oil pump, too many mods to list. Recently serviced. 850 hp motor with less than 200 hours. It also has a bravo XR drive with less than 10 hours, bought new not rebuilt. It is still under warranty. Huge k planes,The drive has a bravo 34" pitch worked prop. This is a 100 mph boat, gps verified (serious inquires only no joy rides). This boat is in showroom condition and has always been kept in dry storage. Trailer has a new axle just put on and all four tires are new, trailer is included. 42,000 obo Alex 786-282-0862






Propulsion:




gas sterndrive ( Engine: Single 850 hp 568 chevy with 178 hours. )

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I've been doing a little work to the 28' Warlock. The 6000RPM VDO tachometer was a little faded on the face so I replaced it with a 7000RPM VDO tach that I had custom built about 4 years ago with a redline indicator dial and it matches perfectly. I replaced one of the spring engine cover supports with a perfect one that I had in stock since one of them was bent. I replaced the two black grab handles and vents on the transom that were badly faded with good ones from Eddie Marine that I had in stock. I am about to Imron the Bennett ST-16 trim tabs that had some black paint chipping off. There was a 1" hole in the transom where someone apparently had a light that illuminated the outdrive so I filled it with thickened gelcoat resin and color matched it. I bought a new boat cover that was a little too short so I had my upholsterer add enough material so it would cover the entire boat including the swim platform. I am doing a few minor wiring changes after studying the wiring. As soon as I change out the drive fluid with my favorite Dyson Syngear fluid, I will be ready to run the boat for the first time. Onwards, Bill

Addendum: The gear fluid looked like new so I will run it for a while. I also installed a billet aluminum flame arrestor for the Holley Dominator that I had in stock from the 632 that I sold - the Eddie Marine ss flame arrestor was in good shape, but the top was bent down from the bolt pulling too much.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill, i believe the stern light is soppose to be their on certain legnth boats according to the uscg.

-------------------------------------------

Mike,
The hole I filled was below the swim platform and has a plastic cover on the outside of the transom that reads Starlight or something like that. It was definitely not a stern light. The Warlock has a 360 degree pole light that plugs into the standard type fitting on the port stern deck. I only filled the hole from the inside of the transom to make sure no water ever got into the transom wood which seems to be perfect. Bill

[Fishermanjm]

awsomw pics Greg, really cool boats

[Greg Guimond]

Fishermanjm glad you enjoy them!

Bill it sounds like you have taken care of the few nitpic items that needed attention. Looking forward to seeing your "sea trial" report. I have been told that the boats ride pretty flat, almost jumping on plane right away without rollover so I'll be curious to get your comments versus the Martini. Onward........:checkered:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
You will be the first to know as to how the Warlock performs. Hopefully, I will include some video footage of the first outing that I look forward to. Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

If things work out like I hope this week, I plan to take the Warlock out for the first time by this next weekend. :yes: Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I had to get the trailer inspected so I could get the title work done on it so I pulled it out this afternoon. I pulled the boat all the way to one of the only inspection places that does out of state trailer inspections and he said he ran out of stickers - bummer. I was about to leave when a FedEx guy made a delivery to him - yep, the inspection stickers he had ordered! So I got the inspection, got the title work and license plate for the trailer done in downtown Denison at the records building, went to have custom decals made at another shop in Sherman, and installed it all when I got back to my shop after also filling with premium on the way back so the boat is ready for next weekend - :yes: The boat pulled great and the surge brakes actually work. Here are a few pictures from this afternoon before I installed the light blue TX number decals and the TXP&W decal. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Team Warlock day is slowly approaching..........looking good Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I am still hoping to take it out on Sunday for the first run, but I don't know if Dean realized that it will be Easter so he might not be able to take out the Martini with us. If I can figure out how to set up the GoPro camera, I will try to do some videos with it.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

She fired up and ran perfect this afternoon on the hose, but the alternator is not working right now. The motor sounds great and the oil pressure was about 70PSI - good enough for a run tomorrow with the dual batteries that I am charging overnight. Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBlmy_Cj8OY

[olredalert]

----Bill,,,Take this with a grain of salt, but I sure do like the Martini better than the Warlock. I freely addmit that Im an east coaster and I know that the Warlock is probably a terrific boat, but being a traditionalist, The Martini just appeals to me more on a visual level........Bill S

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I totally agree, Bill. In this case, I am going for a little more speed and hopefully as good or better ride. I love the old school look of the Martini, but I hope the Warlock fills its place with the newer technology. It will be a fun day tomorrow! Onwards, Bill

[smidgen too]

Bill, olredalert has a point but the Warlock is not your only boat, you have plenty of old school offshores like your new Cig. :yes: I guess thats why you, redalert, and myself have our own fleet of boats, :nilly: that way we allways have something to work on. :boggled: Mark

[Conquistador_del_mar]

By most people's standards all my boats are old since the newest boat is a 22 year old 1990 Stratos which I am about to sell after getting the Donzi 23' CC. My 41 year old 1971 18' Donzi is definitely a classic old school, but the rest are sort of a mix in my mind. Every boat seems to have its own defining characteristics that make it a little different from the others which makes it fun to try various models. I suppose that what we all grew up with somewhat defines what we consider old school designs. For example, I don't consider 1980s model boats to be very old or old school designs. I am sure there are lots of older guys who consider any boat made of fiberglass to not be old school. Sorry, I seem to be rambling since I am bummed about not being able to get out today with the rain - :garfield:. I am going to replace the alternator in the Warlock with a marine one-wire alternator I have in stock. At least I get to do something constructive this afternoon. Onwards, Bill

[Greg Guimond]

I think that the Team Warlock design was fresh from the drawing board by Tom Stolarz using modern build techniques.

It is rare to see a narrow beam boat in this size with a 24 degree deadrise. His thought might have been to build something that could run flat in the big rivers at speed but still take on the same big water as the East Coast builders at the time like Pantera could run in. My gut tells me that this Team Warlock will be more of a "sportscar" in the handling department even with the extra length over the Martini.

I love both of them, so I am curious about the differences that Bill sees once sea trials begin. I could be very wrong.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

As it turned out, the weather cleared up late this afternoon so we went out afterall. The Warlock could not have run any better with everything working including the alternator after I found a slightly loose wire that corrected the problem. Dean and I cruised for about 40 miles together and he bought the Martini with a smile on his face. Deanna likes the Warlock better than the Martini (more room and the colors) so everybody was happy. We did not hit any rough water, but I crossed a cruiser wake that the Warlock had no problem busting open. I only hit 70MPH today, but it drives like a dream and sounds great. I had to lower the port tab to get it level so I suppose the Bravo 4 blade prop and IMCO SC drive are to blame. It gets on plane about like Greg predicted without much bow lift. The hydraulic steering is stiff at idle, but anything over about 1200RPM makes it easy. Overall I could not be more pleased! :yes: Here are a couple videos. Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjPQEYVq7nc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI3E6qZIzKA

[Greg Guimond]

Sounds like everyone went away with a smile :yes:

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, not sure you know but any idea how the Martini and Team Warlock stack up to each other all in weight wise?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
Judging by the wake we put up at about 1500RPM, I guess the Warlock is about 1000lbs heavier. I have never heard the actual weight of the 28' Warlock to compare against the Martini's supposed 3800lbs. If you ever find out, please let me know. By the way, the Warlock is very quiet in terms of interior noise with the Divinycell hull sides - it sounds like it is made very stout (which it is)! The man who bought my Martini told me to let him know if I ever decide to sell the Warlock - he loved it along with the other guys I saw out on the lake yesterday. They were all impressed with it. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Great stuff all around!

[MDonziM]

The Warlock looks great Bill, a good friend had the 23' with the same paint years ago. Very solid, good performing boat. Looks like fun, I can't wait to get out too, I'm jealous. What do you expect the top end to be?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

The Warlock is supposed to do 75MPH with the 548CID/700HP engine. Are you about to get your Magnum back out with everything ready to run for the season? Bill

[MDonziM]

75mph is a good number. Hopefully getting my port motor back in the mag today. Been held up with pulled threads on a few head studs on the stb motor. I am about to install hydromotive nose cones on my drives. What do you think about tack welding them on in a few spots? To hold them in place while the epoxy sets up seems problematic.

- Marshall

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Marshall,
I have known of guys who welded them in place, but I don't think it is necessary when epoxied correctly. I always spend the time to die grind any inside part that makes the nose cone stand out too far and also grind out the hole to make sure it clears the screw-in plug. If you use a bolt with a small rubber hose, you can epoxy the nose cone in place and keep the plug area clear. Be sure to get the cone perfectly straight with the drive when the epoxy is setting. If you turn the prop shaft down, this makes a nice stance for the nose cone to set over the 12 or so hours without moving. Marinetex works very well as a bonding agent. I have installed around 30 or so nose cones with no problems holding. I really believe in them more than many others. By the way, Hydromotive no longer makes them the last time I checked with them - :boggled:

[MDonziM]

Hey Bill,
I will post a pic of the nose cone welded on the drive. My thinking was by tack welding it on there would be less chance for alignment error. Mentioning dremmeling the inside of the cone has me thinking though, there is a bit of a gap at the top of the cone. I'll put the pic on my resto thread. Curoius what your thoughts are.
- Marshall

[Conquistador_del_mar]

We took out the Warlock this afternoon for a second run. It handles the rough white capping water like a champ with almost no noise from the pounding - solid as a rock! Also no spray coming back at us and it cuts extremely well - almost no bouncing. The bad news - it sounds like the engine had a rod knocking after about 15 minutes so we idled all the way back to the marina. The oil pressure stayed up and the temp was normal so I wasn't too concerned about doing additional damage - :garfield: Bill

[zelatore]

You didn't get upset with that motor and just sell the whole thing did you?


Just kidding, but yesterday I saw a boat that looked an awful lot like yours headed south on I5 out of Sacramento. I was headed north so only saw it for a second or two, but those blue side stripes and angular lines really stand out compared to the typical stuff you see these days so it caught my eye. To tell the truth I don't recall seeing the Warlock logo at the stern in the black either but it was only a quick look. I do think some other people used similar graphics in that era.

[Greg Guimond]

Bill sorry to hear about the setback. Any idea what it is? Sounds like it could be minor and that you got it under control quickly :umbrella:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I will fire it on the hose with Derebery to let him help with the diagnosis. Depending on the outcome, I might pull the engine and let them fix the problem. A friend told me today not to rule out a fractured flywheel from the sound I described to him. I'll get it fixed soon though. I love the boat so nothing will stop me from running it. I am thinking about trying a Cutting Edge or Hydromotive 27 pitch prop to help lower the RPMs and possibly help with the torque. Onwards, Bill

[CHACHI]

Bill. sorry to hear .........

I know you will keep us all posted.

ken

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thanks Ken, Don, and Greg. I think it hit about 6400RPM the first time I took it out on the fastest run I made. The drive angle makes a huge difference with the IMCO lower foot so I probably had it a little higher than I should have - lesson learned. I will be going to a 27 or 28 pitch prop in the future. Let's keep in mind that the acronym for boat is "break out another thousand" - lol. In this case probably a few - :boggled:. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

What prop is on the Team Warlock currently?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
It came with a Bravo RH 26P four blade.

[Greg Guimond]

If the 28 is anything like my 23 the hulls tend to run flatter then one might expect. Might be worth thinking of a Rev4 for it as an option as well to help fly the bow a little more when needed.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
I loved the Rev 4 on the Martini, but I lost a little top end speed with it. The Warlock might also benefit from one, however. They sure hold well under any conditions! Bill

I just checked and the Rev 4s max out at 25 pitch - oh well.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

After checking out quite a few props online and reading some forums about props, I have decided to try a Cutting Edge prop so I will call Greg Hittner (I think this is his last name) tomorrow about my application and factors he needs. I remember asking about these props with no response on the Donzi forum so I will be the test subject and announce the results after getting the engine repaired and the prop tested.

[BUIZILLA]

engine dissection yet?

rocker arm stud?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Leon and Daniel Derebery came by late this afternoon to listen to the Warlock engine on my hose at my shop. I believe Leon guessed it was a connecting rod at the crank letting go. I will be pulling the engine and taking it to him ASAP. No matter what, it is not devastating damage. Leon said he had a guy who can rebuild any crank to like or better than new if the journals need work like he suspects. Onwards, Bill

[BUIZILLA]

you never lost ANY oil pressure?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I see your point about not losing oil pressure which would seem logical, but it stayed up. Leon told his son that the small passage was probably "welded" closed after we mentioned that it did not make sense. I will look forward to seeing the internal damage which I hope is minimal. No matter what, I will now know exactly what parts are in the engine along with some specs which I never had. Leon was impressed with seeing the Pro 1 aluminum heads and another guy who was there mentioned the really good roller rockers he saw through the oil fill hole. I think the internals will all be some good parts. I even admitted to Leon that it was probably my fault for letting the engine get to around 6400RPMs on my newly installed VDO tach which I did not believe at the time since the engine is hard to hear with the sound deadening hull and engine compartment. I learned from the mistake already. I will report on the final prognosis. Onwards, Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, you are lucky to have a shop close by that really knows there stuff. I too am curious as to what they will find on the inside. Good luck with it :crossfing:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thanks Greg. Now if I can muster up the time and energy to pull it - :nilly:

[Greg Guimond]

Here is a little "inspiration" for you ................

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thanks again Greg. Yes, Fix - there is an oil temp gauge - it never got too hot - maybe 220. Onwards, Bill

[CHACHI]

220 F is barely over the viscosity test temp to qualify an oil's viscosity.

300 degrees or more is hot.

Bill, 220 isn't even an issue.

Ken

[Conquistador_del_mar]

mrfixxall
fixx
bill 220 is to hot,,even 200 is pushing it..

when you replace the cooler (im sure its full of bearing material) ya may want to consider going to a bigger one,i would hate to see this happen all over again..

----------------------------------

CHACHI
220 F is barely over the viscosity test temp to qualify an oil's viscosity.

300 degrees or more is hot.

Bill, 220 isn't even an issue.

Ken

---------------------------------------------------

Ken,
If I remember correctly, you are an oil expert - correct? There are two completely different opinions here. :boggled: Bill

[mike o]

I have some Divinycell and Corecell if you want a sample.......:cool!:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I have some Divinycell and Corecell if you want a sample.......:cool!:

--------------------------------

Mike, thanks for the offer. You were nice enough to send some other core examples a couple years ago. I actually have a lot of Divinycell left over from when I was working on the 27' Magnum that I abandoned. Did you ever run into my cousin, Nancy, again up there? Bill

[mike o]

On Squam.......:crossfing:

[CHACHI]

Bill, there will always be differences on oil.

I just wanted you to know that the test to qualify an oil is 210 F. So running 10 degrees above that is not anything to worry about.

Expert, not really.

Ken

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thanks so much Ken. I will check the gauge to see the increments, but the oil temp was running with the needle almost directly in the middle at speed and around 180 when I slowed down to idle. I am almost certain that the oil temp is not what caused my engine problem like Fix indicated so I will not be increasing the size of the cooler when I do the work. Thanks again, Bill

[CHACHI]

Mike, I am talking the SAE test for grading the oil. It has nothing to do with bearings or types of material.


Ken



Oil Viscosity - How It's Measured and Reported

Print (http://www.donzi.net/Articles/Print/411)

Noria Corporation
Tags: viscosity (http://www.donzi.net/Meta/Tags/viscosity), oil analysis (http://www.donzi.net/Meta/Tags/oil%20analysis) According to the Society of Tribol-ogists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE), viscosity is one of an oil’s most important physical properties. It is often one of the first parameters measured by most oil analysis labs because of its importance to oil condition and lubrication. But what do we really mean when we talk about an oil’s viscosity?
A lubricating oil’s viscosity is typically measured and defined in two ways, either based on its kinematic viscosity or its absolute (dynamic) viscosity. While the descriptions may seem similar, there are important distinctions between the two.
An oil’s kinematic viscosity is defined as its resistance to flow and shear due to gravity. Imagine filling a beaker with turbine oil and another with a thick gear oil. Which one will flow faster from the beaker if it is tipped on its side? The turbine oil will flow faster because the relative flow rates are governed by the oil’s kinematic viscosity.
Now let’s consider absolute viscosity. To measure absolute viscosity, insert a metal rod into the same two beakers. Use the rod to stir the oil, and then measure the force required to stir each oil at the same rate. The force required to stir the gear oil will be greater than the force required to stir the turbine oil. Based on this observation, it might be tempting to say that the gear oil requires more force to stir because it has a higher viscosity than the turbine oil. However, it is the oil’s resistance to flow and shear due to internal friction that is being measured in this example, so it is more correct to say that the gear oil has a higher absolute viscosity than the turbine oil because more force is required to stir the gear oil.
For Newtonian fluids, absolute and kinematic viscosity are related by the oil’s specific gravity. However, for other oils, such as those containing polymeric viscosity index (VI) improvers, or heavily contaminated or degraded fluids, this relationship does not hold true, and can lead to errors if we are not aware of the differences between absolute and kinematic viscosity. For a more detailed discussion on absolute versus kinematic viscosity, refer to the article “Understanding Absolute and Kinematic Viscosity” by Drew Troyer, published in the 2002 March-April issue of Practicing Oil Analysis magazine.



http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/backup_200211_viscosity-fig1.jpg




Figure 1. Capillary Tube Viscometer


Capillary Tube Viscometer Test Method
The most common method of determining kinematic viscosity in the lab utilizes the capillary tube viscometer (Figure 1). In this method, the oil sample is placed into a glass capillary U-tube and the sample is drawn through the tube using suction until it reaches the start position indicated on the tube’s side. The suction is then released, allowing the sample to flow back through the tube under gravity. The narrow capillary section of the tube controls the oil’s flow rate; more viscous grades of oil take longer to flow than thinner grades of oil. This procedure is described in ASTM D445 and ISO 3104.
Because the flow-rate is governed by resistance of the oil flowing under gravity through the capillary tube, this test actually measures an oil’s kinematic viscosity. The viscosity is typically reported in centistokes (cSt), equivalent to mm2/s in SI units, and is calculated from the time it takes oil to flow from the starting point to the stopping point using a calibration constant supplied for each tube.
In most commercial oil analysis labs, the capillary tube viscometer method described in ASTM D445 (ISO 3104) is modified and automated using a number of commercially available automatic viscometers. When used correctly, these viscometers are capable of reproducing a similar level of accuracy produced by the capillary tube manual viscometer method.
Stating an oil’s viscosity is meaningless unless the temperature at which the viscosity was measured is defined. Typically, the viscosity is reported at one of two temperatures, either 40°C (100°F) or 100°C (212°F). For most industrial oils, it is common to measure kinematic viscosity at 40°C because this is the basis for the ISO viscosity grading system (ISO 3448). Likewise, most engine oils are typically measured at 100°C because the SAE engine oil classification system (SAE J300) is referenced to the kinematic viscosity at 100°C (Table 1). Additionally, 100°C reduces the rise of measurement interference for engine oil soot contamination.

http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/backup_200211_viscosity-tab1-2.gif

http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/backup_200211_viscosity-fig2.jpg



Figure 2. Rotary Viscometer


Rotary Viscometer Test Method
A less common method of determining an oil’s viscosity utilizes a rotary viscometer. In this test method, the oil is placed in a glass tube, housed in an insulated block at a fixed temperature (Figure 2). A metal spindle is then rotated in the oil at a fixed rpm, and the torque required to rotate the spindle is measured. Based on the internal resistance to rotation provided by the shear stress of the oil, the oil’s absolute viscosity can be determined. Absolute viscosity is reported in centipoise (cP), equivalent to mPa·s in SI units. This method is commonly referred to as the Brookfield method and is described in ASTM D2983.
While less common than kinematic viscosity, absolute viscosity and the Brookfield viscometer are used in formulating engine oils. For example, the “W” designation, which is used to denote oils that are suitable for use at colder temperatures, is based in part on the Brookfield viscosity at various temperatures (Table 2).
Based on SAE J300, a multigrade engine oil that is designated as SAE 15W-40 must therefore conform to the kinematic viscosity limits at elevated temperatures according to Table 1 and the minimum requirements for cold cranking as shown in Table

[Conquistador_del_mar]

A friend helped me pull the IMCO outdrive this afternoon in about 15 minutes (his back did the real work). He offered to help me pull the engine that he said should only take us about an hour tomorrow. Chad does not mess around - :superman:. He is helping Derebery build a moly cage in the race Skater they plan to test this year, but he has a little time to help me along with other work he has going. He told me that if we get the engine to Derebery right now, they can work on it right away - :yes:. Onwards, Bill

[Greg Guimond]

It sounds like you have your attack plan well in hand :yes:

[oledawg]

Hehehehe, just seeing that picture of the boat flying through the air reminded me of how I blew the previous engine in my 22C .... new 482 stroker has a rev limiter so that it doesn't over rev when it gets airborne. I can't believe that no one else has ever had this problem.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I will also be changing the rev limit chip in the MSD box from a 7000RPM to something like 6200 if it is available. Bill

[oledawg]

To me this is an interesting question...what is the top end recco on a BBC? My tech says that the BBC, unlike a SB, is really not made for running wide open for extended periods, no matter how the bottom end is built...just too much metal moving around. He set the rev limiter at 3500 rpm for the 20 hour break in, but then we are thinking no more than 5000 rpm afterward, and then only for relatively short periods. The old motor and prop would push the boat to 72-75 mph...not sure what the new one will do yet, but even with the revs limited the increased HP and 4 blade prop gives a markedly better hole shot.

So, what do folks with a 454 normally run their engines at WOT? And for how long? Just curious....

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Leon Derebery's guys disassembled the 548 and found that 2 rod bearings had let go due to having too tight a clearance. He did not think that my running it at 6500RPM made them let go - they were just installed with too little a clearance. They plan to install a new Callies crank with new and better connecting rods, a new roller cam (the old cam's fuel pump eccentric had been damaged) with the solid lift roller lifters that were there along with new 1.7 roller rockers instead of the 1.8s so the new cam will have taller lobes (he told me the reason why he wanted to make the ratio change, but it slipped by me). He did not want to use the Eagle crank or rods (the crank was scored anyway). He will balance everything, install new rings on the good domed pistons that were in it, freshen up the heads, and run it on the dyno before I get it back in a couple weeks. Thankfully, no real damage was done to the rest of the engine since I idled it back after hearing the knock. The windage tray in the oil pan got a little scuffed, but it will be fine. I also took the Lightning headers to my powder coating guy to have them done in silver instead of black. Everything on the engine will now be silver. I got in some 3" oil cooler brackets from Eddies so I can mount the cooler more solidly than the custom made aluminum bracket that was in the underside of the engine attached to the port engine mount. When I get it all back to running again, I will be trying the new 5 blade Cutting Edge 27" prop. Onwards, Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, any progress yet on the fix for the Team Warlock?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
I still don't have the engine back from Derebery. It will have the Callies Dragonslayer crank, Carillo rods, and a new Comp Cam with 1.7 ratio roller rockers. All my other parts are good, but it will get new rings, etc. Fortunately, I am not in any hurry since we don't enjoy boating in the hottest part of the summer here in Texas. Part of the reason for the delay is that Leon's wife tragically commited suicide two weeks ago. My wife and I attended the funeral service 9 days ago.
I look forward to trying the new Cutting Edge prop when I do install it. I ran a new wire for the oil temp sender from the gauge back to the engine compartment, secured the driver's seat with another bolt throught the cockpit side, touched up the bilge paint work, had the headers powder coated silver (they were black), and did a few other changes in the engine compartment. When I do get it all put together, I will now know exactly what I have. I can't wait to run it in rough water this Fall to see how it behaves, but I think it will be great with almost no hull pounding noise from what I have already experienced. We love the boat from the small amount of time spent in it so far. We bought a new house for my wife this week so I am busy doing some projects there before she moves in so it will be a while before the Warlock gets back on the front burner. We live in separate houses, but spend every evening and her non-business days together - I know, we are not the typical married couple - lol - :yes: Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Wow that is terrible news. It just goes to show how things can go terribly wrong very quickly. It sounds like you have your path clearly defined for the boat and it will be even better then when you got it. I'm bummed that it required any additional expenditure but that goes with the territory! Good luck with it!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Yep. I was figuring on at least a couple seasons before doing anything major, but now I know where everything stands. By the way, the gimbal bearing was on its way out which might have caused some serious damage. I will still only have about $23,000 in the boat which is a bargain in my book for an unusual 28' 75mph deep v offshore boat that looks almost new and has a fresh 540CID/700HP engine with an IMCO Extreme drive. No complaints here - :yes: Bill

[Greg Guimond]

I agree with that. $23k would have been low for that particular set-up. I'm still not sure why they sold it so cheap. Perhaps they did not really know what they had :confused:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I had the Lightning headers and intake manifold powder coated silver and should be able to Imron the new oil cooler in the next couple days along with installing the engine after finally getting it back from Derebery. I also installed an oil cooler temp sender which it did not have even though it has the gauge. Pictures will follow when I get it done along with a report on how the boat performs with the new Cutting Edge 5 blade prop. Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I just got home from installing the engine after making a few improvements in the engine compartment. The new oil cooler is Imroned and I hope to hook up all the peripherals in the next few days. This has dragged on far too long! I have restored boats in less time - lol. I will show some pictures after I have it all rigged. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Looking forward to seeing some shots when you get around to it Bill. In the meantime, I have "archived" the next generation of Warlock's ( 25, 27, and 29 ) in the Other Boats For Sale Section. Btw, and not to be a wiseguy, but you should change your sig line to Team Warlock. The "Team" means it was built by Tom Stolarz whereas just Warlock means it was built by Carter Reed.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
I can't change my old name which is also the name on my Eliminator - :cool!:. Yes, I will post pictures in a couple days of the engine which is almost complete now. The new double oil cooler has worked out well, but it is a pain rigging it into the engine compartment. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Ah, I said sig line and I guess I meant and should have said the fleet listing! 1989 28' Warlock Offshore - single 548CID/600HP

[Conquistador_del_mar]

And so it shall be done - lol.

[Greg Guimond]

Now I can sleep ..........:biggrin:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I made and installed the final ss hose this afternoon. I might be finished in the engine compartment by tomorrow - yippee! I couldn't count how many times I have been in and out of the back end of the boat - :rlol:. Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

The new engine with all the new hose routing and new double oil cooler is about done. Also, the Lightning headers and intake manifold were powder coated silver. I think it turned out fairly well. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, with respect to the engine and what it ended up needing, was there a pretty good package to work with or did it require a full rebuild? I bet you are looking forward to getting it back in the water, and I'm sure you will tell us that the temps down your way are in the 70's :shades:

[Greg Guimond]

Scratch that question, I just re-read the entire thread and saw your and Leon's comments. I know that you are coming up on your 1 year mark for owning the boat so I suspect you are getting anxious to run her. I have kept my eyes open, thinking I would find another 28 Offshore over the last year, but nothing so far.

[RockyS18]

Looks good Conquistador_del_mar!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
Yes I hope to run it at least once again this year - today would have been great with a high of 75! Leon's procrastination and pricing higher than quoted took a lot of the wind out my sail (sorry - took the octane out of my gas), but I bounce back. We installed a new Callies Gorilla crank, Callies Ultra rods, a new Cam Dynamics custom ground cam, and new 1.7 ratio rollers, but almost all the other parts were fine. This whole ordeal did leave me knowing exactly what I now have and I was able to improve the wiring and plumbing. No other 28 Offshores for sale? Cool! Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Rocky,
Thanks. You are working on one of my favorite boats. I absolutely loved mine with no problems over the 5 or so years I had it - it was a rock! I once pulled 5 barefoot skiers behind the beast. Bill

[Ghost]

Quick '80s aside: With the curls, the moustache, the shades...anyone else see some Weekend at Bernie's in that second shot? :)

[MDonziM]

I don't know, I'm thinking Bill's last name might me Murray.

Bill - That cig 20 was sweet looking. The rebuild on the Warlock motor sounds good (except for the fact that it had to be done) I hope you get it out soon, it looks sharp. Obviously you know this but I would dump the oil after the first 5 min start up and again after the first run just in case there are any old metal shavings hiding. Good luck.

- Marshall

[Conquistador_del_mar]

You guys have me confused with a playboy dancing to KC and the Sunshine Band - :hyper:. OK, that might have been the case back in the day. Not Bill Murray, but I sometimes used to be accused of looking like Gene Wilder - :wink:.
Marshall,
A friend actually highly suggested getting rid of the old oil cooler for that very reason. He did not think cleaning it would get all the metal out. I did change the oil after the dyno run as soon as I got it back. Thanks for the tip though. You convinced me to change the oil and filter after I run it for the first time which I am hoping will be before the end of the year (80 for a high today).

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, I never did figure out if your Team Warlock actually has drop down bolsters or if it truly is a sit down hull?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg, it is sit down only. I finished the engine work and replaced the gimbal bearing this afternoon, but I discovered that the front of the engine needs to go down for a proper alignment. I wish I had found this out before I installed all the plumbing and headers. Ouch! Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

This has been an ongoing project with some regression. Just when I thought I was on the home stretch replacing the engine I ran into the fact that the engine would not align without lowering the front engine mounts. Since the adjustment was already maxed at the lowest the adjusting nuts would go, I realized that I had to lower the actual L brackets. I am guessing that the boat originally came with shorter engine mounts than the Mercruiser type it now has or it would never have aligned correctly. The previous owner must have settled on the alignment, but it has to go down almost 3/4" to be correct. I also realized that the coupler must have spun on my first run since I thought back on the smoke that I saw after running at max RPMs when I thought I just over revved the engine causing some blowby so I am replacing the coupler, too. These are the confessions of a frustrated boater who should have checked the alignment first and also known that the coupler had caused the excessive RPMs on the first run. Here is what I have surmised. The engine alignment was off so much that it almost destroyed the gimbal bearing and caused the coupler to slip on top RPM since it was under such a bind under maximum load. This caused the engine to over rev which took out a couple of the connecting rod bearings - thus the engine rebuild. Onwards. Bill

[duckhunter]

Bill,

Your hypothesis makes sense. That kind of thing can definitely sneak up and bite you and I feel your pain. I have spent a lot of hours chasing strange vibrations and trying to get the boat running right. It took me 4 days and three cases of beer to finally get the engine aligned. After adjusting the motor mounts every which way but loose and pulling my hair out, I finally discovered that the gimbal bearing had been knocked maybe 1/16" out of whack when I pulled the drive. Makes a big difference by the time the alignment tool hits the coupler.

So I ended up fully seating the bearing and back-tracking on all of the adjustments I had made to the motor mounts. Turns out I was pretty stinking close when I started that whole train wreck... Lesson learned I guess.

Decided to replace the drive bellows and lower shift cable this winter and have the parts sitting on the bench but don't have the tools. Based on my experience last winter I think I'm gonna farm this one out to the pros... I'm sure there will be other excellent adventures in boat maintenance in my future anyway.

Keep plugging!

[MDonziM]

Bill,

Sorry to hear about the issues with your engine mounts... I'm confused, was the engine recently installed prior to you buying the boat? The rest of the story makes sence, not something you would think of when looking at a used boat.

Regards - Marshall

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill,

Sorry to hear about the issues with your engine mounts... I'm confused, was the engine recently installed prior to you buying the boat? The rest of the story makes sence, not something you would think of when looking at a used boat.

Regards - Marshall

Yes Marshall, the engine was relatively new to the boat after a blower motor was replaced with the one I now have. I have to presume the motor mounts are not the original ones that came with the boat. The L brackets appear to be original, however. Onwards, Bill

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill,

Your hypothesis makes sense. That kind of thing can definitely sneak up and bite you and I feel your pain. Keep plugging!

I can only hope it is all downhill from here with lots of uninterrupted cruise times ahead.

[Greg Guimond]

Bill I think that you have been busy with your new Cig project (very cool) and to be honest I now feel bad I got you into the Team Warlock given the engine situation you ran up against. Hopefully you have not shelved the project :banghead:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill I think that you have been busy with your new Cig project (very cool) and to be honest I now feel bad I got you into the Team Warlock given the engine situation you ran up against. Hopefully you have not shelved the project :banghead:

Heck no, Greg. I love the Warlock and have no regrets about buying it. I have to admit that it was disappointing about the engine/alignment problems, but it is almost ready to run again. I just like boats and am used to problems and working on more than one project at a time as long as the projects do not take too much out of me personally (like the Magnum did). Bill

[scippy]

Bill,

When you say, the magnum "took too much out of you personally".....if you don't mind me asking, was it the totality
in physical wear to the body?........I remember you recoring the deck and having also to crawl from in and out of the
hull...:frown:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill,

When you say, the magnum "took too much out of you personally".....if you don't mind me asking, was it the totality
in physical wear to the body?........I remember you recoring the deck and having also to crawl from in and out of the
hull...:frown:

Pete, I think it was a combination of things - the physical requirements included. Quite honestly, my fire for the project dwindled as "the light at the end of the tunnel" still seemed so far away and my age had superceded my will to finish the project. When Greg posted about the 28' Warlock that was ready to run, it dawned on me that it was a similar and unusual boat that cost less than what I still had to put into the Magnum just in parts and materials - not forgetting the incredible amount of labor. I still think the 27' Magnum Sport is close to being the ultimate cool old school deep v boat so I regret that I was not feeling up to the task, but I had to face the facts. Thanks for asking. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Glad to hear that you are close to finished with the Team Warlock Bill. I ran across the test article on it from 1988 in Hot Boat to add to the Powerboat test earlier in this thread.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thanks Greg. Stolarz spent some time in my area since he was with the Cowboys before being injured. I would think a twin BBC package would be extremely crowded - :embarasse. I am hoping to reach that same top end speed of 73MPH in the twin engine test boat with the single engine - at least I can dream - lol.

[Greg Guimond]

No problem Bill. I'll be very surprised if you don't GPS 70+ with your single. I always assumed that the beam on the 28 was actually narrower than 7'8" given my 23 is only 6'6".


Hmmmmm :screwy:

[Greg Guimond]

In my odd quest for useless facts about Warlock's I ran across this tidbit that outlines Tom Stolarz's ownership period.............. I can't edit it properly as the site is acting up




OnThursday, July 21, 1988, a U.S. federaltrademarkregistration (http://www.trademarkia.com/team-warlock-73741363.html) was filed for TEAM WARLOCK by STOLARZ, THOMASP . (http://www.trademarkia.com/company-stolarz-thomas-p-3423972-page-1-2), ANAHEIM 92806. The USPTO has given the TEAM WARLOCKtrademark serial number of 73741363. The current federal status of thistrademark filing is CANCELLED - SECTION 8. The correspondent listed for TEAMWARLOCK is STEVEN R. MARKYL (http://www.trademarkia.com/correspondent-steven-r-markyl-1-246361)of 14902 BRIDGEPORT ROAD, TUSTIN, CA 92680, . The TEAMWARLOCK trademark is filed in the category of Vehicles andProducts for locomotion by land, air or water (http://www.trademarkia.com/category-in-vehicles-and-products-for-locomotion-by-land-air-or-water-012-page-1-starting-a). The descriptionprovided to the USPTO for TEAM WARLOCK is POWER BOATS AND STRUCTUREPARTS THEREFOR.



Word Mark:

TEAM WARLOCK



Status/
Status Date:

CANCELLED - SECTION 8
5/20/1996



Serial Number:

73741363



Filing Date:

7/21/1988 (http://www.trademarkia.com/trademarks-by-filingdate.aspx?fd=7/21/1988)



Registration Number:

1565786



Registration Date:

11/14/1989



Goods and Services:

POWER BOATS AND STRUCTURE PARTS THEREFOR



Mark Description:

NOT AVAILABLE



Type Of Mark:

TradeMark



Published For Opposition Date:

8/22/1989



Last Applicant/Owner:

STOLARZ, THOMAS P. (http://www.trademarkia.com/company-stolarz-thomas-p-3423972-page-1-2)
ANAHEIM 92806
The USPTO makes this data available for search by the public so that individuals can locate ownership information for intellectual property, much the same way a county might make real estate property ownership information available.Since our website is synchronized with the USPTO data, we recommend making any data changes with the USPTO directly. Our website will auto-update when the USPTO data is updated.
You may also contact LegalForce to make a request for the removal of your personally identifiable information or trademark data. Such requests must be made in writing and will be subject to verification of ownership. This policy allows verified trademark owners to specify: (A) that their identifiable information be masked, or (B) that their trademark pages permanently deleted from LegalForce.com. Requests may be made directly to questions@legalforce.com (questions@legalforce.com) and every effort will be made to honor them within 48 hours.




Mark Drawing Code:

Drawing/Design + Words(75% Reduction of drawing size)



Design Search:

Letters or words underlined and/or overlined by one or more strokes or lines (Geometric figures and solids - Lines, bands, bars, chevrons and angles) see more design... (http://www.trademarkia.com/logos-in-letters-or-words-underlined-andor-ov-261713-2-page-1)



Register Type:

Principal



Disclaimer:

(NOT AVAILABLE)



Correspondent:

STEVEN R. MARKYL (http://www.trademarkia.com/correspondent-steven-r-markyl-1-246361)
14902 BRIDGEPORT ROAD
TUSTIN, CA 92680

[Greg Guimond]

And here is a twin 1990 Team Warlock 28 World Class with a price that will never happen........$40k

1990 Warlock twin engine 552 HP very low hours on motors 1 new bravo drive, 1 new rebuild. new interior cock pit & cabin, new water temp & water pressure. New thermostatic oil coolers, all braided stainless lines. Stelling headers, nose cones, lab props. new gauges, 93 MPH Indoor covered in Bethel Island storage
This boat sings! New interior and cockpit. Custom 461 CU motors by Tim Morgan, Walnut Creek, CA, with 9:1 compression. 552 HP DYNO TESTED!!!! Custom Stelling exhausts, Dual power PS pumps with SS reservoir, all external hoses braided SS, SS pulleys, Gill 10Quart oil pans, holley 850 carbs, Dart intakes, MSD ignitions, Keith Eiker oil coolers, oil thermostats, and air aleaners. Custom oil changing system with braided SS lines runto bottom of oil pan. 2 Halon fire systems, tilt steering, electric engine hatch

[Greg Guimond]

And another 28 for sale with twin 502's for $25k .............

[Greg Guimond]

Super tight with twins but that was how you got the ponies back in the day. Much better set up as a single like Bill's :yes:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I think the 28 is right on the border of needing twins. It it weren't for the fact that a single with big power can run through the newer outdrives, the twins would be the only way to get into the 70MPH+ range.

[duckhunter]

I think the 28 is right on the border of needing twins. It it weren't for the fact that a single with big power can run through the newer outdrives, the twins would be the only way to get into the 70MPH+ range.

Double post.

[duckhunter]

I think the 28 is right on the border of needing twins. It it weren't for the fact that a single with big power can run through the newer outdrives, the twins would be the only way to get into the 70MPH+ range.

Maybe 28 is borderline, but LastRealTexan is running significantly over 70++ with a single procharged BBC in his 27ZX. For a gofast boat on a beer budget I would rather drop money into one monster motor/drive than potentially marginal twins at exponentially more cost. With an open checkbook, a 39 footer with 1350s sounds great...

[duckhunter]

Maybe 28 is borderline, but LastRealTexan is running significantly over 70++ with a single procharged BBC in his 27ZX. For a gofast boat on a beer budget I would rather drop money into one monster motor/drive than potentially marginal twins at exponentially more cost. With an open checkbook, a 39 footer with 1350s sounds great...

That said, a T/502 boat for $25k ain't all bad...

[Greg Guimond]

They will never get $25k for that Team Warlock 28 with the 502's. As far as 1350's, you only need 21 feet to stretch that motors legs .........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItQ8Y_SzDs

[Greg Guimond]

I will now take myself to the woodshed for derailing the thread :) There is a gentleman who has a Team Warlock 28 World Class with twin 525SCi's and Bravo's with cones. He does 91 on GPS with a full tank and just driver.

[Greg Guimond]

The 28's are boulevard cruisers. It's all about the look, and 70 is awfully nice when enjoying the plush 24 degree ride. Kind of like my XJR 100. Just don't try and make an extreme turn like this guy did with his 28 :eek:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Super tight with twins but that was how you got the ponies back in the day. Much better set up as a single like Bill's :yes:

Why would anyone not have matching breathers? My Cigarette with the 572s came with mis-matched flame arrestors, too. Bill

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[Greg Guimond]

Hey Bill, does your Team Warlock 28 have the porta-potti option? Here is a picture of one in the same boat.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Hey Bill, does your Team Warlock 28 have the porta-potti option? Here is a picture of one in the same boat.

Mine has the same place for one, but the tonneau cover and some other gear is in that bin. I had totally forgotten about the tonneau until I was doing some vacuuming in the Warlock yesterday afternoon.
I will be running the Warlock again after doing the engine work and quite a few sundry improvements. I hope the engine with the new Callies dragonslayer crank and Callies ultra rods and custom Camdynamics cam will hold together and make the power for at least 75MPH. I also have a new Cutting Edge prop to try, and I'll post the results in a couple weeks.

[Greg Guimond]

75mph could be a challenge with that hull but not impossible. If you were able to see 70-71 on demand with your new set-up that would be very cool. Good luck with the break-in period. Amazingly there have been almost no Team Warlock 28's for sale and none with single engine power that I am aware of.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

75mph could be a challenge with that hull but not impossible. If you were able to see 70-71 on demand with your new set-up that would be very cool. Good luck with the break-in period. Amazingly there have been almost no Team Warlock 28's for sale and none with single engine power that I am aware of.

Greg,
I am anxious to see how the engine performs after the changes. Being a roller cam engine, I don't have to worry about any break-in procedure but I will take it easy. I think the boat will do an easy 50MPH cruise which is what we like to do in this type boat as opposed to the 23' Donzi center console outboard. You might have seen the post I made about a new shifter/throttle where I ended up buying a Lavorsi for the Warlock. In hind sight I might have settled on the Merc 4000 that is made for either the Gen 1 or Gen 2 cables after talking to my mechanic friend yesterday. It is supposed to be a very comfortable and well made shifter according to him. I went back out to my business at 12:30AM last night to check the security lighting and ended up compounding the Warlock deck for 1 1/2 hours. I need to get a life - lol.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

After I spent numerous hours on the engine installation with lots of modifications, my mechanic finally stabbed the distributor and took it out for a shake down cruise this morning. Except for one hose I forgot to tighten, it went very well except for the external steering system apparently still has some problem with being too stiff. He took it to right at 70MPH on his GPS during the short cruise time. He was very impressed with the ride and quiet hull. Greg, he asked me if all the Warlocks are cored hulls, but I told him I did not know. Anyway, I was pleased with the report since I plan to take it out quite a few times this Fall. :D

[Greg Guimond]

Greg, he asked me if all the Warlocks are cored hulls, but I told him I did not know.

Bill, if you have a cored hull on that 28 of yours it is rare. I can't say for sure what the percentages of cored versus non-cored production was, but it was a very expensive option back some 24 years ago considering that 28's carried a $54,356 base price. I have attached the Factory Price Sheet from when Stolarz launched Team Warlock in 1986 for you to see the upgrade prices. You have to also keep in mind that Tom Stolarz had raced extensively and continued to race while he was developing the Team Warlock business and brand. The guy probably (still alive in SoCal somewhere today) new what he was building and never cut any corners. This is one of the reasons I feel that the Team Warlock's are a very well kept affordable secret out there in used boats. You can buy a 23 for $10k and go 70 with stock power. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday guaranteed that the layup schedule was constantly improved. Rumor has it that Stolarz raced Parker as recently as 2011. I'd suspect he is in his 70's now and probably a wealth of knowledge if anyone could interview him to preserve history.

Are you sure that your particular boat is cored with Divinicyell?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill, if you have a cored hull on that 28 of yours it is rare. I can't say for sure what the percentages of cored versus non-cored production was, but it was a very expensive option back some 24 years ago considering that 28's carried a $54,356 base price. I have attached the Factory Price Sheet from when Stolarz launched Team Warlock in 1986 for you to see the upgrade prices. You have to also keep in mind that Tom Stolarz had raced extensively and continued to race while he was developing the Team Warlock business and brand. The guy probably (still alive in SoCal somewhere today) new what he was building and never cut any corners. This is one of the reasons I feel that the Team Warlock's are a very well kept affordable secret out there in used boats. You can buy a 23 for $10k and go 70 with stock power. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday guaranteed that the layup schedule was constantly improved. Rumor has it that Stolarz raced Parker as recently as 2011. I'd suspect he is in his 70's now and probably a wealth of knowledge if anyone could interview him to preserve history.

Are you sure that your particular boat is cored with Divinicyell?

Thanks Greg. Yes, mine is definitely a cored hull since you can tap at any place on the sides and it is solid like tapping on a bulkhead area on most boats. It is a very quiet ride where you don't hear the water hitting the hull like most sport boats. I had presumed that being the Offshore 28 model might be the reason it is cored, but I did not know if all Warlocks were cored or only certain ones. Thanks for the additional info. If you are ever in the Dallas area, drop by for a ride - I owe you one!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

My mechanic finished up with the Warlock today so I picked it up and started installing 8 new fold down ss cleats, compounding it, and installing the new throttle - just in time for my favorite time of the year for cruising our lake. I will be trying a couple other props, too. The Bravo One 4 blade 26P is fairly good, but I will be trying both a Cutting Edge and a Turbo Fusion 4 blade 27Ps.

[Greg Guimond]

It'll be interesting to see how the Turbo Fusion4 does Bill. It is a surfacing prop but I have found the handling to be exceptional AND it gives the entire boat lift which I would think will be good with an old school straight 24 degree V like your Team Warlock. Also, look and see if the lifting strakes are dead even at 90 degrees. The hulls seem to lift on there own a little more than expected. Here is hoping for 75 for you :yes:

[Greg Guimond]

Btw, my bot has yet to find another single engine World Class 28 out there for sale surprisingly, and the meister finds Warlocks like Texans find oil :wink:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

It'll be interesting to see how the Turbo Fusion4 does Bill. It is a surfacing prop but I have found the handling to be exceptional AND it gives the entire boat lift which I would think will be good with an old school straight 24 degree V like your Team Warlock. Also, look and see if the lifting strakes are dead even at 90 degrees. The hulls seem to lift on there own a little more than expected. Here is hoping for 75 for you :yes:

If I gain a better cruise speed and get at least the same top end speed, it will have been worth the relatively small expense. If the Revolution 4 came in a higher pitch than 25, I would have been trying one. I think 75MPH is possible with the right propping, but I would sacrifice top end for handling and cruise any day of the week.


Btw, my bot has yet to find another single engine World Class 28 out there for sale surprisingly, and the meister finds Warlocks like Texans find oil :wink:

Now that is classic funny! Back in the 70s, I spent the weekend with some college friends at a really fancy house out in the country on a huge piece of property with an oil pumper right in the middle of the huge "front yard". At the time, I thought having something like that was an eyesore :bonk: Having lived in Texas for over 40 years now, I would be happy to drive home and see a money maker at work :yes:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill, if you have a cored hull on that 28 of yours it is rare. I can't say for sure what the percentages of cored versus non-cored production was, but it was a very expensive option back some 24 years ago considering that 28's carried a $54,356 base price. Are you sure that your particular boat is cored with Divinicyell?

Greg,
This afternoon I was installing the 8 new ss fold down cleats to take the place of the "ugly" Perko cleats. To get access to the nuts on the front 2 cleats I had to remove a mirror at the front bulkhead. This gave me a good look at the construction with no carpet or paint blocking the view. You will see that it is cored on the sides with square coring and cored on the deck with solid coring material. Also you will notice that the deck and hull are glassed together and the rubrail is installed with machine screws and nylock nuts. Can't get much better than the way it was made in my book. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, those are some great pictures. You scored a unique piece there for sure. There is certainly no confusion now as to what you have in your 28, a fully cored boat which would have been about a $5,500 upgrade to the base hull. A couple weeks ago I ran across a 1983 hull that was being advertised as a Team Warlock. Well that did not fit the timeline so I asked a few questions and next you know I'm trading a note with a gentleman who is selling a Hallett 36 with some 1500hp. Okaaaaaay. In any event, it turns out that he was there at the very start which you can see by the email he sent me below. I was in Phoenix and then San Diego for work last week and then bumped up to LA for a yearly reunion a dozen college buddies do each year in a different city. I figured I would run into Stolarz when we were at Larry's in Venice Beach but that was not to be lol

From: Jim A
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 4:58 PM
To: Greg Guimond
Subject: RE: 1983 Warlock 28

Greg,
I can understand the confusion. Here's why:
The owner and founder of Warlock was Tom Stolarz. Tom and I have been great friends for a long time. Tom acquired that 1983 Charger hull and existing trailer and we went together as partners in the boat in the early 80s. We stripped it down to the bare fiberglass and replaced every part of the boat including the motors. Tom built it "Warlock style"at the Warlock shop and as you can see designed all of the top notch aluminum work in the same vein as he built all the Warlock brand boats.
I bought Tom's share of the boat from him in the late 80s and that was how it came to be a Warlock boat in name with an original Challenger ID. Some boat manufacturers "splash" a competitors hull and call it their own, in this case we just used an existing hull and built a Warlock. I was a drag racer with Eliminator and Tom was a circle racer, first in "Comp Jets" and then made his mark in "K Boats". The guy was fearless!!!

Jim

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
Very interesting info on the ebay Warlock! That is the boat where I started a thread about the trimmable Volvo outdrives that it has. If it didn't have the day cruiser deck, I might have been driving to Kansas for it since it is so unique. It is actually 30' instead of 28' - correct? It has the same type upholstery and dash that Eliminator was putting in their early boats which is fairly cool in my book. By the way, the trim rams in those Volvo "elephant ear" transom assemblies are rebuildable. Just yesterday, I bought a rebuild kit from an ebay seller (Ty) who also sent me tons of 280 Volvo information. I bought the kit to repair a leaking ram in my 1971 18' Donzi which has the same drive setup as that Warlock. You should buy that Warlock piece of history!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-WARLOCK-/271279088084?_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330782324455?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_880wt_1141

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Here is my 1985 23' Eliminator Daytona interior for comparison. Since the man who wrote you the email used to race for Eliminator and he and Tom Stolarz were partners in the unusual Warlock, my guess is they used the same people to make the upholstery and dash as Eliminator did. Top notch stuff! By the way, my 1985 Daytona came with the same trimmable Volvo drive setup, but I converted to Bravo due to the power.

[Greg Guimond]

Greg, very interesting info on the ebay Warlock! That is the boat where I started a thread about the trimmable Volvo outdrives that it has. If it didn't have the day cruiser deck, I might have been driving to Kansas for it since it is so unique. It is actually 30' instead of 28' - correct? It has the same type upholstery and dash that Eliminator was putting in their early boats which is fairly cool in my book.

Bill, yes that boat is 30' but it is NOT a Team Warlock. It is actually a 1983 Charger with a HIN to match. I believe what you have with this ebay boat is one of Tom Stolarz's first experiments. He and his friend got a Charger hull and rebuilt it. That experiment no doubt led to Stolarz starting Team Warlock Inc in 1986. I have the factory catalog for the first two models Stolarz and Team Warlock offered in 1986, your World Class Offshore 28 and my World Class Offshore 23. The rumor on mine is that Team Warlock arranged to work with Yamaha to introduce there wackers into the American market and rigged my hull with a 1986 220 Special for the show circuit. I know that to be true because when I bought the boat and had it dragged back East from Lake Havasu it come into my yard with that original 1986 motor. I couldn't believe it but things stay preserved in the desert as you know.

On the interior that is another authentic indicator I suspect. Bob Leach has been around for ever in the Left Coast boat scene and now that I see your cat's interior there is no doubt that Stolarz and his partner Jim Hall had Eliminator install the interior in 1983 on that Charger 30 with twins. That boat being in Kansas is pretty funny.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Yep, being in Kansas is a little odd, but centrally located - lol. Since Stolarz was apparently applying his skills, it is probably very well built, albeit another brand boat. If I wanted an inexpensive and well built day cruiser type boat, that one would certainly fit the bill.
I might take out my Warlock tomorrow for a cruise with the Fusion 4 27P prop which I have already mounted. It is either that or a run to Glen Rose Texas to see the dinosaur footprints. Decisions - :nilly:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I guess the smaller diameter and blade characteristics of the Fusion 4 made it a bad choice for the Warlock. Even with the 27" P, it wanted to rev too high and I lost speed. I will try the Cutting Edge prop next weekend. Onwards!

[Greg Guimond]

Cutting Edge prop should be interesting. On the Turbo Fusion4 do you feel that you just needed a bigger wheel than 27? Here is another 28 Offshore with a single. I have not seen a single since yours.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
I am just guessing that the Fusion 4 diameter was the problem since I had gone up in pitch. After trying the Cutting Edge, I might consider a Hydromotive or even a Mirage Plus 3 blade since the drive is definitely low enough that cavitation should not be an issue. I probably should have gone with the Bblades prop trying service which is not out of the question after the Cutting Edge trial if I don't like the performance. It was a perfect day today with no chop, but I did get to take a large cruiser wake which the Warlock ate like a hot knife through butter. I intentionally did not slow down since I wanted to see how it could take something decent sized.
I am a little surprised that another 28 came available with a tranny setup - there would not be enough room in mine.

[Greg Guimond]

There is a guy running 700hp in a Team Warlock 24. He is running a labbed Bravo I four blade from bblades on his Team Warlock as a point of comparison for you Bill.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

There is a guy running 700hp in a Team Warlock 24. He is running a labbed Bravo I four blade from bblades on his Team Warlock as a point of comparison for you Bill.

Thanks Greg. Do you know what kind of drive and speed he is getting? At some point, I will leave well enough alone, but right now I am convinced that trying props might end with finding "the perfect fit".

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Here is one of the 2 access holes I drilled with a hole saw - one on the other side, too. You can see the steering arm bolt that needs to be loosened along with the top retaining nut which you can't see.

[Greg Guimond]

Thanks Greg. Do you know what kind of drive and speed he is getting? At some point, I will leave well enough alone, but right now I am convinced that trying props might end with finding "the perfect fit".

84 and 85 on GPS Bill. Here is a blurb on props that might be a help to you as you dial the TW 28 in ............


It depends what you are starting with. Bravo 1's are a little smaller than advertised, starting with a 32 you are at 30 1/2 to 31 true pitch. Labbing removes material and blade area so even if a little "cup" was added, you are in that general area. Cutting Edge props act slightly larger than advertised due to their additional "cup" so Bravo 1 and CE are not exactly the same as advertised. In an apples to apples comparison of the same brand, same pitch, same blade style you would normally drop a number of pitch for an additional blade (going 4 blade to 5 blade). CE has two different blade styles available, the Bravo style round ear and the Hydromotive style semi clever. With the round ear I'd go down at least a full pitch going from one on their 4 blades to one of their 5 blades. On the Hydromotive style, its less than half a pitch difference compared to one of their 4 blades due to less blade area.

I have a CE 29p 4 blade with extra cup, a 32P 4 blade and a 32p 5 blade hydro style. I've found that my boat likes the diffuser removed, added cup and a diameter of 15 1/4" or less.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Great info Greg. Thanks!

[Greg Guimond]

I did a little digging on cored hulls as mine is also cored. Came up with this............


Greg it depends on a number of factors. By offering two hull build "options" then it would be reasonable to think that the second option, the cored hull, would be put to more severe use than the standard build. Ultimately, to increase overall strength the Divinycell would have an increased thickness but also the laminates on both sides would also need to be proportionally increased in thickness, particularly in high impact/stress areas. However to answer your question, quite conceivably just an increase in laminate thickness over all or in identified high load/stress areas would suffice. On any build I can ask my supplier here in NZ for a build specification to suit each application. Any increased hull thickness would obviously add more weight.

[Greg Guimond]

I would have thought that a cored hull was also lighter in total weight, but I guess that is not the case.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Once I discovered it was a cored hull and I saw some of the glass work that was visable, I realized that it was a very well made boat. I have never had a cored hull before (deck only), but I always thought it had to be heavier than a comparable non-cored boat. How much heavier I figured was how much the extra coring and glass work added. The added bonus of knowing the hull is stronger is how quiet the boat rides. It is like adding sound deadening materials in a car - huge difference in splashing noise.
I finished installing a Mercury 4000 throttle instead of the Lavorsi I had bought yesterday afternoon since I liked the feel of the ergonomic handle on the 4000 better. The rubber grip handle fits comfortably in your hand. It does not feel cheaply made like the 3000 did, plus it does not have the separate trailer button. The thumb operated tilt button takes the drive all the way up or down. In my case, I did not have to use the throttle kill switch since the Warlock came with a kill switch on the lower dash. It looks just like this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCURY-883709A02-GEN-II-4000-PANEL-MOUNT-BOAT-THROTTLE-SHIFT-CONTROL-/400407861979?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item5d3a2b1adb&vxp=mtr#ht_3578wt_1170
I now have to get the steering arm and swivel pin replaced and I'll be ready to rumble.

[Greg Guimond]

I see the number 75 in your future Bill. One other thought I had regarding your 28 was the strake design. You said the 10' straight edge showed the hull and strake running lengths to be dead flat, which is pretty amazing for a boat that old. On the strakes however, are they flat port to starboard? Team Warlock was experimenting with slightly different reverse angles on there lifting strakes early on, and I do not know if they ended up turning them down a few degrees in there production hulls to provide better lift to those rascals.
:confused:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

The strakes appear to be flat with no angle to them, and the bottom of the hull is very straight with less than 1/8" deflection over the 8' straight edge I held on various areas of the bottom from the transom forward. Here is the throttle I installed last week. It feels great in your hand and has no trailer button to push - the one switch does all the trimming.

[MDonziM]

Bill,
If you want to try both right and left I still have my Cutting Edge 30" set...
- Marshall

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill,
If you want to try both right and left I still have my Cutting Edge 30" set...
- Marshall

Marshall,
Thank you so much for the offer. I don't think my boat will spin anything over a 26 or 27 pitch. In addition to finding the best overall prop, I am also trying to figure out why the boat leans so much to the left which might be related to the style prop or to other hull/drive factors. Thanks again. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

A narrow beam hull with a deep V and zero pad will sometimes demonstrate this tendency and it can almost always be corrected with prop dial in. Hell my 16 would do it depending on what prop I was running at any given time. Curious though to be more specific, are you seeing it lean left as you are coming up on plane? At cruise say 3000-3500 RPM? Does it go away at a certain RPM and Speed?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Once up on plane, it leans to the left all the way up in speed although less at 50MPH+. I definitely need some more seat time to figure out what is going on. My next time out I will probably be trying the Hydromotive 27LH to see if it takes care of the excessive lean. If it leans just as much to the right, I will be very surprised. I am used to a little lean in deep v hulls which I typically correct with a little tab - this seems excessive. It might be related to trimming out too much which does not really raise the bow on the Warlock like other deep v boats I have run?

[Greg Guimond]

I might know how to contact one of the glass guys that worked for Tom Stolarz laying up the Team Warlock's 25 years ago. I will try and reach out to him and see if he has any cloudy memories (smoked a lot of glass) that could shed light on your left hand leaning issue. Stolarz tooled the molds for the 23 and 28 Offshores from scratch. The 28's were a brand new design at the time.

I know of the guy who has the first production 28 Offshore ever built. It is a 1987 HIN and located in Washington state. It has twins so no help for your leaning issue, but given his is a 1987 and yours is a 1989 any tweeks to the hulls bottom would have been sorted out two years later. His is the only 1987 28 I have ever seen.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Until I test some more props, I think it could also be related to the IMCO Extreme drive itself or the bottom of the hull - I need more seat time. No matter what, I am going to get it dialed in since we really like the boat.
I will be adding the second ram for dual ram external steering as soon as I get the parts from Ron at IMCO for added ease of steering (balanced system) and peace of mind with its additional strength.

[Greg Guimond]

I'm just thinking out loud here but my .02 ................

I would eliminate the hull issue from the "what if" list as a priority. I believe that you have already run a 10' straight edge from the transom forward to the bow on the hull itself and seen less than 1/8" of daylight on each panel. I'm not sure how you are set up down there but if you have a payloader, I would strap the boat and lift it up off its float-on trailer as it is tough to get a good hull panel read given how much of the panel is obscured by the trailer bunks. Once you can really get under it, you'll want to check 20' of the running surface instead of 10'. Also, check just the strakes themselves. Are they true for 20' without any rocker or hook? These hulls have a fairly unique fine entry line with steep dead rise at the bow. They were designed to run a little flatter than most stuff they were competing with. That type of bow entry will tend to grab and lean more than a full entry bow. If there is something askew with a strake than that could be a part of your issue.

My money says once you hoist the boat and can really get under it, you will take away a MAJOR variable that could drive you crazy. Eliminate one variable at a time, never two. Also take a pocket level to the strakes left to right to ensure they are dead flat 90 over there 3 or so inches of left to right depth on the back 15' of the hull.

From hull and strakes we move to the drive itself for inspection. I can almost guarantee that you have the only TW 28 Offshore single in the world with an IMCO Extreme drive on it. I don't know jack chit about them and if they carry a substantial torque tab, blow out ring or what X they should be run at on an old school 24 degree straight V, never mind a 24 degree straight V that is designed to run a level attack angle.

Are we having fun yet? I love a good science project. :lobster:

[Greg Guimond]

Also, just to clarify Bill, are you saying that when you nail the sticks from a dead stop and are using zero tab that it comes right up on plane with no lean? The listing to the left only starts to present itself once the hull "rolls over" onto plane after say the first 30-60 seconds of throttle nailing?

[Greg Guimond]

In addition, as long as I am on my pulpit of pontification, have you ever done a "true" prop shaft to V measurement? I'm sure you have and I'm not telling you anything new given the many number of boats you have had but get the boat onto a flat surface, throw a level on the trailer and jack it till dead level. Go to the drive and trim it to nuts level as well, then take the measurement .......bottom of the V down to the middle of prop shaft. Curious how many inches that is exactly (3-4-5) as these hulls were set up for snub nosed early edition Bravo One drives.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
You have put some real thought into your posts! I will have to check those aspects of the hull, strakes, and prop shaft depth before answering anything. I can lift the boat at my shop, but the swim platform would have to be removed to use the transom lifting eyes. If I can get out tomorrow, I will get a better feel of how the hull is reacting at various speeds. I ended up borrowing a RH Hydro Q IV 26P since my friend told me the 27P was a repitched 26 and I wanted a stock prop to try out. He has quite a few sets of Hydros for his Fountain and is using a set of 29s now. One thing I don't remember posting is how the Warlock does not respond to drive trim like the other deep v hulls I have ever had. It does not raise the bow much at all when you trim out - it runs much flatter than other boats I have ever had. I might be trying to trim out too far? Anyway, I hope to run it Sunday afternoon if the weather permits. Unfortunately, there will be 6 of us in the boat so it might be a little heavy for any top end runs. At least I have only been changing the prop dynamics at this point to see if the leaning changes. Thanks for all your input.

[Greg Guimond]

The more I think on it the more I wonder how much the Imco Extreme drive shape is helping or hurting your leaning situation as well as carrying the bow. Major difference in overall housing shape, and the bullets are obviously night and day. Good luck with the prop testing today.

It is simply not acceptable to have a Team Warlock 28 showing :drunk: characteristics on the water lol.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I took out the Warlock on Sunday with 6 of us on board trying the RH 26P Hydromotive prop. Unfortunately, the steering shuddering was still going on after installing the new swivel pin and steering arm so it must be the control valve acting up which took out the last arm. Anyway, we did get to run it on up, and the leaning is still an issue and top end suffered (I could not get but 4700RPMs)- back to the drawing board.
After talking to Ron at IMCO this afternoon, I ordered the extra ram to make it dual ram add on steering. We talked about the lean which he did not feel was a typical problem with the IMCO Extreme drives. I therefore, rechecked the hull bottom and found nothing but almost perfectly straight surfaces and strakes. The outside strakes do not even have any deflection - perfectly straight. The inside ones have less than 1/8" over the 8' straight edge. I leveled the boat and leveled the prop shaft to get the prop shaft centerline measurement. It is 5 1/4" from the bottom of the true V to the center of the prop shaft. I checked the trim gauge and saw that being perfectly straight from the bottom is where I have been trimming it to for my best speed - maybe even a little lower than perfectly straight since it will start to cavitate if I go up with the trim.
Here is my gameplan. First I will get the steering system running properly. I will them try a LH Hydromotive Q IV 25P to see if the lean gets better by turning left followed by a smaller diameter RH Revolution 4 25P (highest pitch they make). I am not even going to try the new RH Cutting Edge 5 blade 27P since I am certain the lean would be even worse with it and it is probably too much pitch anyway. If these props do not solve the leaning problem, I will likely get a Bravo III XR lower foot if they make it with a low water pickup. Ron told me it will bolt right up to the Extreme upper. One way or the other, I will get the Warlock dialed in. Onwards, Bill

[Greg Guimond]

Bottom 100% flat - check
Strakes 100% straight - check
Hull - 100% off the table, as I kind of expected with a quality build.

I lost sight of the steering and whether or not that could be a prime suspect. You might also ask Imco about a torque tab. Have they done them, would they suggest it.

I also have a contact that runs the sister 23 Offshore with 680hp dyno'd. His GPS is 91-92mph and he is running a Spinelli 4 blade with a stock Bravo One that is coned. His Spinelli is below.

[Greg Guimond]

I took out the Warlock on Sunday. I leveled the boat and leveled the prop shaft to get the prop shaft centerline measurement. It is 5 1/4" from the bottom of the true V to the center of the prop shaft. If these props do not solve the leaning problem, I will likely get a Bravo III XR lower foot if they make it with a low water pickup. Ron told me it will bolt right up to the Extreme upper. One way or the other, I will get the Warlock dialed in. Onwards, Bill

The 23 Offshore running the Spinelli 4 blade at 91mph is running the stock Bravo One drive at 4.25" below the V. It has a cone, but uses the stock port and starboard side water inlets and gets plenty of pressure which is surprising. Both the 23 and 28 Offshores were actually designed to run fairly flat. While this reduces the top speed a bit it allows them to take on much rougher water than other hulls there size. Here are two photos of a 23. Notice pretty flat at high speeds.

[Greg Guimond]

I would have known that Team Warlock used AME 4000 resin with bi and tri glass along with Divinycell in the sides. A well built boat for sure!

I'm not sure if there are any "bare" areas of glass layup in the 28's but here is a shot of the bow in a '23 Offshore' with the factory upgrades of both AME4000 Resin and the costly Divinycell (located in Desoto Texas) foam core material along with a little description from the manufacturer. In 1989 Formula was just starting to use the technology in there hulls layup schedules so Team Warlock was ahead of the curve technically. I'm surprised that they would use the scored Divinycell core layer in the hull sides all the way up at the bow, but I guess they did from this picture.


Divinycell, Klegecell, and ProBalsa are processed into flat sheets of varying thickness. In order to create parts with compound curves, the core material must fit to the curved mold. The core material can either be cut into smaller pieces or thermoformed to fit the curved mold. To facilitate the production of curved parts without the need for thermoforming, gridscored (GS) core material was developed. The scores allow the material to bend around curves more easily than plain material, without the need for thermoforming. There are several types of scored material available so the builder can choose the right product for his application.

[Greg Guimond]

From the 1989 Formula brochure ............

Formula’s superior exterior finish is achieved through the consistent use of high quality materials and by following layering procedures exactly.• Divinycell® structural foam adds lightweight strength in specific areas as opposed to balsa construction that absorbs water when improperly applied, and Coremat® helps prevent surface print-through. By allowing a part to remain in its mold the ideal length of cure time, Formula avoids the foggy finish and surface distortion often observed in lesser quality boats.

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, I know you are planning to run your Team Warlock 28 this weekend with the LH Rev 4 prop. Notice how flat the 23 is running in this factory dealer brochure shot.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

You said flat - nothing flat about those models :hyper: Actually, I am going to try the RH Rev 4 25P since I am a little worried about damaging the outdrive by turning left. The correct prop just showed up today after they had sent the wrong prop last week. Hopefully, the smaller diameter and pitch along with lack of a trailing exhaust ring flare will all add up to a great run. No matter what, I am betting the cruise will be really good. :crossfing:

[MDonziM]

Bill - According to my mechanic there is problem turning a bravo the other direction. When testing my Magnum I spun mine in/out many times with no issues and that's doing full throttle runs. Just be careful docking...

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Thanks Marshall. Here is a low quality picture that shows the port IMCO steering ram that I just installed to make it dual ram along with showing the hole in the upper transom assembly that was filled after being hole sawed out for access to the swivel pin replacement procedure.

[Greg Guimond]

Ran across another survivor 28 ........

[Greg Guimond]

And another 1990 28 with twin 454's making 500hp each. Top speed is 86mph with Bravos. For sale actually for $25,000 with a triple axle trailer. Sits a little stern heavy.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Greg,
I'll bet that red one is sitting on a Competetive trailer which is made in California. Good looking boats you posted and 86MPH is getting up there! I have not had a chance to run mine yet since I've been sick and the weather is not cooperating. Sold my Cigarette Mistress yesterday.

[Greg Guimond]

I ran across this original Team Warlock factory invoice for the little 23' Offshore model ................

[Conquistador_del_mar]

This afternoon, I finished installing a new power steering control valve actuator (pain in the butt) to see if I could finally get the steering shudder problem corrected after trying other remedies which did not fix the problem. I fired it on the hose and the problems went away - steering is now fixed with dual ram IMCO external steering as a nice addition to the preexisting single ram and it now takes equal force turning either direction. I was not able to test the new Revolution 4 25P prop with the continued steering problem and I had to winterize the boat since we have 16 degree nasty winter mix weather headed our way. I'll report speed/RPM info later. If anyone has this steering shudder problem that makes the outdrive go back and forth violently, consider the actuator valve as a possible culprit. After pulling the old valve, I found a significant bulge in the end of the part that is threaded that is supposed to be flat. Apparently something let go inside the actuator. Onwards.

[MDonziM]

Hopefully that's the end of it Bill. Too bad about the weather, we actually had 55 deg and flat calm wind today here and I snuck out.

[Greg Guimond]

Bill I guess no more Team Warlock tests this year. Aren't you guys shutting down Texas due to ice? :frown:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Nasty here in north Texas - 22 degrees at noon with 4"+ of sleet and dropping to 8-11 degrees tonight with more winter mix on the way. Hardly anyone is out on the roads. The Warlock is the last boat my mechanic friend winterized with his antifreeze setup when I took it over on Wednesday and we ran it together - :thumbsup:.