1989 Team Warlock 28' World Class Offshore

[vciaszqm]

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[vciaszqm]

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[Conquistador_del_mar]

In the interest of getting back to normal, I wanted to add that my Warlock has had a few problems I never encountered in all my years of boating, but hopefully everything is now fixed.
1 - never had an engine that had to be rebuilt (replaced many before, but not because I had to do it).
2 - never had an engine alignment problem
3 - never had a Bravo hub spin out before
4 - never had steering component problems before (my Donzi CC also had steering problems this year that are now corrected)
5 - never had a boat that leaned so much, but hopefully the smaller diameter Rev 4 prop will solve that issue
Even with the cost and time to do all the repairs on the Warlock, I am really glad we have the boat. Onwards.

[Greg Guimond]

The twin to Bill's single. Same colors but a major project. Probably could get the hull for $1,000 as no one knows what they are. Most of the Team Warlock 28 Offshores were set up for twins. Singles were far fewer.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I ran across this original Team Warlock factory invoice for the little 23' Offshore model ................

Greg, I never paid attention to the invoice for the 23' Warlock that I recently bought. Apparently Keith had sent it to you before I ever thought about buying the boat.


The twin to Bill's single. Same colors but a major project. Probably could get the hull for $1,000 as no one knows what they are. Most of the Team Warlock 28 Offshores were set up for twins. Singles were far fewer.

This would make a great project, but there are others out there that are ready to go for less than you could probably get this one completed.

[Greg Guimond]

Correct, Keith did send it to me. 8 out of 10 projects like that TM 28 don't make sense IMO. Better off just waiting for a mint example of the same model to come around unless you are making a radical change like closing the transom up and hanging a 300 ETEC off the back :eek: You need to get yours dialed in :yes:

Buy Hull - $2,000
New Interior - $5,000
Wet Color Sand and Polish Gelcoat - $2,000
And on $ and on $$ and on $$$ ............ :cussball:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

You need to get yours dialed in :yes:

Yes, I need to see if the Rev4 prop does the trick. I never got a chance late last year when winter raised its ugly head.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

This afternoon, I finished installing a new power steering control valve actuator (pain in the butt) to see if I could finally get the steering shudder problem corrected after trying other remedies which did not fix the problem. I fired it on the hose and the problems went away - steering is now fixed with dual ram IMCO external steering as a nice addition to the preexisting single ram and it now takes equal force turning either direction. I was not able to test the new Revolution 4 25P prop with the continued steering problem and I had to winterize the boat since we have 16 degree nasty winter mix weather headed our way. I'll report speed/RPM info later. If anyone has this steering shudder problem that makes the outdrive go back and forth violently, consider the actuator valve as a possible culprit. After pulling the old valve, I found a significant bulge in the end of the part that is threaded that is supposed to be flat. Apparently something let go inside the actuator. Onwards.

My wife and I took out the 28' Warlock yesterday afternoon for the first time this year. OMG - The Revolution 4 25P prop is awesome!! I saw the fastest speeds that I have seen since buying the boat - before and after rebuilding the 540 engine. We hit 74 MPH on a downwind run at 5300 RPMs and 71 MPH on an upwind run in choppy water. For the most part we cruised at 39 to 45 MPH at the 3000 RPM range. The steering shudder problem is now gone and the boat drives like a dream. Here are a couple videos we took, but we did not video the 74 MPH downwind speed run. We are fighting a 10-15MPH headwind in the speed video. The Revolution 4 prop rocks!! Bill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_02iZztGAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtgZZaCsUj4

[Greg Guimond]

So a box stock Rev4 right hand 25 prop completely solved the problem of the 28 leaning to port at cruise speeds? Are you able to raise the tabs up and out of the water completely or are you still forced to drag a little tab to run level side to side? How was the boat coming up onto plane with the 25" wheel?

I think you'll want to try the same Rev4 on the 23 Offshore :yes:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

So a box stock Rev4 right hand 25 prop completely solved the problem of the 28 leaning to port at cruise speeds? Are you able to raise the tabs up and out of the water completely or are you still forced to drag a little tab to run level side to side? How was the boat coming up onto plane with the 25" wheel?

I think you'll want to try the same Rev4 on the 23 Offshore :yes:

Greg, still some leaning to port but not as much. I ran the WOT runs with no tab down and not much lean at all. The boat gets on plane with very little effort. We were running into whitecaps in the large part of the lake with almost no noticeable bounce - the boat really handles the waves!
I am now convinced that the relatively small ST-16 Bennett tabs are too small for the 28' Warlock - the longer Dana or K planes would have been a much better choice - something like these:

http://eddiemarine.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=253_254&product_id=168

Also the Bennetts are mounted too far inwards so they lack the leverage of lifting from the outside. I wonder if extra length could be added to the Bennetts? Since they are dual ram, they might be able to handle an extra 6" or so, but I don't know.

[Greg Guimond]

Any PVS vent holes in the Rev4 ?

[Greg Guimond]

75mph could be a challenge with your 28 hull but not impossible. If you were able to see 70-71 on demand with your new set-up that would be very cool. Good luck with the break-in period. Amazingly there have been almost no Team Warlock 28's for sale and none with single engine power that I am aware of.

It looks like the jury is almost in on 75 mph top speed at WOT :eek:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Any PVS vent holes in the Rev4 ?

Yes, but the vent holes have plugs that I left in.


It looks like the jury is almost in on 75 mph top speed at WOT :eek:

I should add that the newest run was done with an almost full tank of gas. There might be a better prop than the 25P Rev 4, but I doubt that I will try anything else after seeing how well it works on this Warlock - keep in mind that this prop was brand new and straight out of the box with no tweaking. I am guessing the Rev 4 would also work well on many of the Donzis. In my book, the Rev 4 is a spectacular design with no negative attributes. I wish I could buy stock in it - lol.

[Greg Guimond]

I will be running the Warlock again after doing the engine work and a few sundry improvements. I hope the 700hp engine will make the power for at least 75MPH. I'll post the results in a couple weeks.


75mph could be a challenge with that hull but not impossible. If you were able to see 70-71 on demand with your new set-up that would be very cool.


After I spent hours on the rebuilt engine installation with lots of modifications, my mechanic finally took it out for a cruise. Except for one hose I forgot to tighten, it went very well except for the external steering system apparently still has some problem with being too stiff. He took it right to 70MPH on his GPS during the short cruise time.


Bill, if you have a cored hull on that 28 it is rare. I can't say for sure what the percentages of cored versus non-cored production was, but it was a very expensive option 24 years ago considering that 28's carried a $54,356 base price. Rumor has it that Stolarz raced Parker as recently as 2011. I'd suspect he's in his 70's now and a wealth of knowledge if anyone could interview him to preserve history. Are you sure that your particular boat is cored with Divinicyell?


Thanks Greg. Yes, mine is definitely a cored hull since you can tap at any place on the sides and it is solid like tapping on a bulkhead area on most boats.


Marshall, I am also trying to figure out why the boat leans so much to the left which might be related to the style prop or to other hull/IMCO drive factors. Bill


Took the Warlock out with 6 onboard trying the RH 26P Hydromotive. Unfortunately, the steering shuddering was still going. We ran it up, and the leaning is still an issue so back to the drawing board. After talking to Ron at IMCO, I ordered the ram to make it dual ram steering. We talked about the lean which he didn't feel was a problem with IMCO Extreme drives. I therefore leveled the boat and leveled the prop shaft to get the shaft centerline measurement. It is 5 1/4" below the bottom of the V. If props don't solve the leaning problem, I will likely get a Bravo III XR lower foot if they make it with a lwp. Ron told me it will bolt right up to the Extreme upper. I will get the Warlock dialed in. Onwards.


I took out the 28' Warlock yesterday afternoon for the first time this year. OMG - The Revolution 4 25P prop is awesome!! I saw the fastest speeds that I have seen since buying the boat - before and after rebuilding the 540 engine. We hit 74 MPH on a downwind run at 5300 RPMs and 71 MPH on an upwind run in choppy water. The steering shudder problem is now gone and the boat drives like a dream. The Revolution 4 prop rocks!! Bill

Bill, your comments earlier about getting to 74mph with a full and heavy 90 gallon fuel tank (6lbs per gallon of ethanol blend gas) made me go back and look at the progression of events. I'm actually surprised that the IMCO propshaft center is 5 1/4" below the 28's keel. That's deep (considering the low water pickup it has) which means it still is providing you very good hull leverage. I run my case 1" below the keel. Normally that type of bullet profile is only helping add speed at about 80 and above. I also thought the cored hull might be a much lighter weight, helping top speed, but looks like it's more super strength and stiffness. I'm now thinking that you'll easily see 75mph on demand with the Rev4 and 700hp mill which is a testament to the hull design and the super tight IMCO steering. Also amazing that the Rev4 prop solved 90% of the left hand list problem at speed. I think as you get more seat time you'll find you can avoid use of the one tab and hopefully eliminate the remaining list. If not, a good prop man might help work the Rev4 a touch to help with the left lean?

Curious when you get a side video at 65-70 how the Rev4 is carrying the bow & midship. Must be doing a nice job to ultimately achieve 74 with 300lbs of extra gas? Also does the Extreme have a built in torque tab on it?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill, your comments earlier about getting to 74mph with a full and heavy 90 gallon fuel tank (6lbs per gallon of ethanol blend gas) made me go back and look at the progression of events. I'm actually surprised that the IMCO propshaft center is 5 1/4" below the 28's keel. That's deep (considering the low water pickup it has) which means it still is providing you very good hull leverage. I run my case 1" below the keel. Normally that type of bullet profile is only helping add speed at about 80 and above. I also thought the cored hull might be a much lighter weight, helping top speed, but looks like it's more super strength and stiffness. I'm now thinking that you'll easily see 75mph on demand with the Rev4 and 700hp mill which is a testament to the hull design and the super tight IMCO steering. Also amazing that the Rev4 prop solved 90% of the left hand list problem at speed. I think as you get more seat time you'll find you can avoid use of the one tab and hopefully eliminate the remaining list. If not, a good prop man might help work the Rev4 a touch to help with the left lean?

Curious when you get a side video at 65-70 how the Rev4 is carrying the bow & midship. Must be doing a nice job to ultimately achieve 74 with 300lbs of extra gas? Also does the Extreme have a built in torque tab on it?

I wouldn't doubt that the Warlock would gain some speed with a -1, -2 or even a -3" lower foot on the drive if it could keep from cavitating getting up on plane. No, the Extreme does not have a torque compensator. The boat would also be faster with a conventional Bravo drive without the straight cut gears, but the drive would probably not last very long. Since my goals are a reasonably fast cruise that is reliable in a good wave cutting boat (which happens to be extremely unusual for our lake), I feel like my goals have been met. I personally really like the color combination as well.
Right now, I would like to solve the trim tab issue for cruising purposes. When approaching waves which are coming in from an angle, I like to lean the deep v hull away from the approaching waves to both keep the bow from slapping the waves (hard on the hull) and to keep the spray to a minimum. With the Warlock leaning to the left, I would be better with waves coming from the starboard but not from the port side. The way it is now, I can not even make it lean to the right.
I hope to find a friend who can video this boat and some others while running. Taking videos from inside the boat is okay, but seeing how it runs from an outside perspective is more interesting to me.

[Greg Guimond]

Yep agree, I would not go any higher with the gearcase as 5 1/4" below the keel seems to be working very nicely for you. Rather have a great all around 75mph "driver" than an 80mph top end three times a season. A torque tab might be an interesting tweak next season after more seat time. I have seen one guy with a Team Warlock add stainless tab extensions to the same dual rams you have. Inexpensive and easy to do :yes:

[Greg Guimond]

Also interesting that your boat with twin 7.4 carb BBC's (each making 330hp at the prop) and Bravo drives clocked a top speed of 72mph on radar when tested in 1989. Your single engine 28 is the only single currently running in the country that I am aware of. There are at least a dozen 28s out there with twins. I'm sure the boat is much more balanced with the single 700hp motor.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Yep agree, I would not go any higher with the gearcase as 5 1/4" below the keel seems to be working very nicely for you. Rather have a great all around 75mph "driver" than an 80mph top end three times a season. A torque tab might be an interesting tweak next season after more seat time. I have seen one guy with a Team Warlock add stainless tab extensions to the same dual rams you have. Inexpensive and easy to do :yes:

Very interesting that someone added the extensions. That is exactly what I was thinking of trying. The tabs are mounted at least 12' from the chine so they don't have much leverage like the 23' Warlock that are mounted to the outside of the transom.


Also interesting that your boat with twin 7.4 carb BBC's (each making 330hp at the prop) and Bravo drives clocked a top speed of 72mph on radar when tested in 1989. Your single engine 28 is the only single currently running in the country that I am aware of. There are at least a dozen 28s out there with twins. I'm sure the boat is much more balanced with the single 700hp motor.

The single engine seems more logical than the twins on inland lakes, but 25 years ago they didn't have the powerful engines and drives capable of handling the power like now. I like being a little different by the way - :yes:

[Greg Guimond]

A couple of trim tab location shots on 28 Offshore sisterships ..............

[Conquistador_del_mar]

A couple of trim tab location shots on 28 Offshore sisterships ..............

Yep, that is where they should be mounted. Check out how far inboard mine are mounted and you can see why the lifting leverage is so negligable. Here is the best picture I have which was taken before I bought the boat. I might be better off to simply move them to the outside of the transom than making extensions for them?

[Greg Guimond]

Here is the best picture I have which was taken before I bought the boat. I might be better off to simply move them to the outside of the transom than making extensions for them?

I would add the extensions first. Cheap and very easy to do. Here is a picture ................

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I would add the extensions first. Cheap and very easy to do. Here is a picture ................

If I do add length (sounds like one of those emails I used to get), there would have to be vertical supports to the extensions or it they would certainly bend under the load. The lifting leverage would still be horrible mounted so far inboard on the transom.
After checking, it looks like a pump or two would have to be relocated if I were to move them to the outside of the transom where they should have been mounted. If it weren't for the fact that the Warlock has the nice Bennett tab indicator system in a custom bezel on the dash, I would be tempted to get larger tabs and mount them where they should be mounted. The jury is still out on whether I will do anything about the tabs.

[yeller]

I am now convinced that the relatively small ST-16 Bennett tabs are too small for the 28' Warlock... I wonder if extra length could be added to the Bennetts? Since they are dual ram, they might be able to handle an extra 6" or so, but I don't know.
Mine were extended.
Bill, I PM'd you about these.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Mine were extended.
Bill, I PM'd you about these.

Thanks for the offer Glen.

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, your comment about getting to 74mph with a full and heavy 90 gallon fuel tank (6lbs per gallon) made me go back and look at the progression of events. I'm actually surprised that the IMCO propshaft center is 5 1/4" below the 28's keel. That's deep considering the lwp it has which means it still is providing you very good hull leverage. I'm now thinking that you'll easily see 75mph on demand with the Rev4 and 700hp mill which is a testament to the hull design and the super tight IMCO steering. Also amazing that the Rev4 prop solved 90% of the left hand list problem at speed.

Bill, have you pretty much solved your leaning problems on the 28 by using the Rev4 now that you have more seat time? It sounds like the prop is a pretty perfect match at this point. :yes:

[Greg Guimond]

Also interesting that both your 23 and 28 are 75mph boats. Tom Stolarz was after all a product of the '70s :lightning

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I started the trim tab relocation this afternoon by removing the port side assembly and then planning on moving it outwards about 11". I will have to fill the holes before setting the tab and rams or they will be in the way of buffing out the gelcoat or paint as I proceed. We have unusually cool weather right now here in north Texas so I am taking advantage :yes:. Besides relocating the outdrive pump, the only other modification will be longer 1/4" hosing on the inside - no big deal. Onwards

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill, have you pretty much solved your leaning problems on the 28 by using the Rev4 now that you have more seat time? It sounds like the prop is a pretty perfect match at this point. :yes:

I will be keeping the Rev 4 25P on the 28 Warlock, but it did not do away with the portside lean. I am fairly confident that moving the tabs outwards by 11" will make it much easier to trim correctly with using less tab which means more speed. I hope to finish the modifications this week after locating a source for the black gelcoat yesterday.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

The black gelcoat was not black enough so I'll touch up the areas with black Imron and blend it in at the edges before installing the tabs.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I moved the trim tabs 11.5" to the outside of where they were for better leverage so I hope they work perfectly next trip out :yes: It was more time consuming than installing them from scratch since the old holes had to be filled and the black repainted and blended in with Imron. I also discovered that each wire (red and green) on each side that provides the tab information to the Bennett trim tab indicator actually has 2 wires and a ground in each wire sleeve. I had cut the wires from each ram (only one ram on each tab has the wiring) since they had to be lead through new holes. Here is the old and new position of the tabs - night and day difference in leverage position. Onwards.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

We made plans tonight to take out the Warlock Monday. I hope to do a relatively long cruise and video the boat from my Phantom drone along with seeing if the new tab location works like I think it will. Onwards.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

The new trim tab location makes the tabs work like they should now - :yes: i didn't end up taking any drone videos today though - :frown:

[Greg Guimond]

I'll be keeping the Rev 4 25P on the 28 Warlock, but it didn't do away with the portside lean. I'm fairly confident that moving the tabs outwards by 11" will make it easier to trim correctly with using less tab which means more speed.


I moved the trim tabs 11.5" to the outside of where they were for better leverage so I hope they work perfectly next trip out. Onwards.


The new trim tab location makes the tabs work like they should now. I didn't end up taking any drone videos today though.

Bill, did it "cure" the listing problem to port and did you pick up any speed?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill, did it "cure" the listing problem to port and did you pick up any speed?

The 28' still wants to lean to the port side, but the port tab can now correct the lean more easily. In fact, I can actually lean the boat to starboard now which I was not able to do before changing the tab position. The 5 of us did about 3 hours of cruising at an average of about 45mph in whitecaps without taking any water except for some occasional fine mist - the boat really handles the rough stuff! At one point, I was taking whitecaps from a 45 degree angle towards the port side so I was able to tilt the boat to the right for a much better approach to the waves and a better ride. I actually did not go for speed this time out. I took them to a spot I have not stopped at since the 1970s where we collected a few 300 million year old fossils. A fun afternoon!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

With our flood this year, I have only taken out the 28' Warlock once this year a couple weekends ago. It ran flawlessly, but the fuel gauge was erratic. It turns out I had to replace the sending unit in the tank which is only 1.5" below the back seat towards the rear so I cut a 5" hole in the bottom of the back seat for access. Thankfully we made it back to the ramp with only about 5 gallons left in the 100 gallon tank!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

My wife and I went out yesterday in the 28' Warlock for the first time this year and it ran perfectly. We sure love this boat!

[lars]

Don't seem to manage to log on to the Forum as often these days Bill, but got to give You & Your Wife a tip on the hat for Your stunning photos posted. Hope that You Guys get to use the Warlock more this season and that You have Yourself a wonderful continued boating season.

Cheers, Lars.

P.S. How about a few new photos of my favorite Kevlar49 boat? ;) D.S.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Don't seem to manage to log on to the Forum as often these days Bill, but got to give You & Your Wife a tip on the hat for Your stunning photos posted. Hope that You Guys get to use the Warlock more this season and that You have Yourself a wonderful continued boating season.

Cheers, Lars.

P.S. How about a few new photos of my favorite Kevlar49 boat? ;) D.S.

Hi Lars. You have to be one of the nicest, kindest and warmest guys on the planet but we can pretend you are the ruthless Viking - lol. I had just walked up to the bow of the Warlock after running for a couple hours to see how I liked the new Nike Free 4.0 Flyknit shoes my wife had bought for me when she took the picture which I also thought turned out well. The shoes are awesome boating shoes with no slip on the slick deck and weigh almost nothing. Thank you for the kind words and I hope you are also enjoying a fun boating season! I still have the old Daytona which is now in an insulated building within 2 miles of my house. Take care, Bill

[lars]

Thank You for Your kind words Bill. Love the Caribbean color of the floor. The interior of the building even matches the Daytona ♡
Glad You still also have the little Donzi. Got to check out those Nike shoes of yours, seem fantastic. Won't run any of my boats this year. My Schiada has a new owner lined up for it, so the only boat I got in the U.S. is a 1989 Team Scarab 31 by Larry Smith I bought myself recently and I won't have time to set it up right 'till next year, but I feel very privileged to have found it.
847858478684787

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I rolled a heavy coat of Sherwin Williams Tile Clad epoxy on that concrete floor of the building I bought for storage. Tile Clad is some tough stuff and you can pick any color from their chart. Your Larry Smith 31' Scarab looks like it should handle just about any water! Sweet! Here is a picture of the Nike shoes that Deanna got for me. They are made with a stretchy knit that breathes and a sole that grips like nothing else I have ever had. Take care and enjoy the Scarab.

[lars]

Thank You Bill. Will check those nice Nike shoes out and thanks for the info on the concrete floor epoxy.
Happy boating.

[Greg Guimond]

My wife and I took out the 28' Warlock yesterday afternoon for the first time this year, 2014.
OMG-The Revolution 4 25P prop is awesome!! I saw the fastest speeds that I have seen since buying the boat - before and after rebuilding the 540 engine. We hit 74 MPH on a downwind run at 5300 RPMs and 71 MPH on an upwind run.


It looks like the jury is almost in on 75 mph top speed at WOT ?


Yes, I should add that the newest run was done with an almost full tank of gas. There might be a better prop than the 25P Rev 4, but I doubt that I will try anything else after seeing how well it works on this Warlock - keep in mind that this prop was brand new and straight out of the box with no tweaking.

Bill did you run your 28 at all in 2016? Curious how the speeds ended up. How much horsepower do you think the 540 is making?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill did you run your 28 at all in 2016? Curious how the speeds ended up. How much horsepower do you think the 540 is making?

Hi Greg,
I think we only took it out a couple times this past year. The second time I tried to make a video from my drone, but the wind and water conditions made it difficult. I believe the engine makes around 700hp with a top speed so far of 75mph with the Rev4 prop. I have no doubt that another prop would gain some top speed, but I like the handling so well that I am not inclined to try any other props. Bill

[Greg Guimond]

I agree 100% on the Rev 4 prop. Another 28 with a single will be coming on the market soon that is super clean. It would be a nice sister to yours.

[Greg Guimond]

.......
Here is a clean single engine TW 28 Offshore in Michigan that someone here should buy ...........
..........