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View Full Version : Seized Engine OR Stern Drive diagnosis 454 KC omc



JayZ
12-08-2011, 02:31 PM
All,

This Friday/Saturday I am going to start digging into the Classic 22 I just purchased.

As I mentioned, it may have a seized engine. I was reading somewhere that a drive problem can give the appearnce of a seized engine.

Dumb question (not the last one I promise) How does one disconnect the drive (OMC King Cobra) to check to see if the engine will spin freely?

I've ordered the OMC King Cobra manual just haven't recieved it yet.

Thanks!

dsparis
12-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Get the manual first.

XMETAL
12-08-2011, 03:00 PM
Jay pm me your # I can walk you through it.

JayZ
12-08-2011, 03:20 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

cool. Thanks. It simply can't be that hard and I probably don't have the patience to not tinker with it this weekend. ...should be fun actually.

P.M. forthcoming.

JZ

dsparis
12-08-2011, 04:06 PM
Its real easy,especially if you have an engine crane. Pull the fill plug out of the top and thread a lifting ring in. Just be real gentle with #12





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JayZ
12-08-2011, 05:14 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

Roger that, I do have an engine crane...

Thanks!

silverghost
12-09-2011, 12:56 PM
JayZ
With such low hours on this drive/engine package there ia a very good chance that the manifolds/risers are rusted-out internally and dripped water/saltwater into the engine through the exhaust ports and rusted some cylinder bores..
I have seen this happen many times before.
The fact that the prior owner actually drove it to the boatyard is not unusual.
I wonder if these exhaust manifolds/risers were the originals ?
Despite the fact that the engine had such low hours this could really be the case.

I have seen more engines siezed by slightly leaky center riser manifolds that were internally leaking over the years.

I would try the Marvel Mystery Oil
with about 25% Automatic Transmission Fluid mixed in.
Remove your spark plugs and fill each cylinder.
Let this mixture soak in the cylinders for a week , or two.
Put the plugs back in hand tight.
Then a week ,or two, with the spark plugs OUT try to quickly jog the engine with the starter or a socket & breaker bar on the front engine balancer center mounting bolt.
With any luck your cylinder bores are not rusted too badly and the engine will turn over.
Good Luck.

biggiefl
12-09-2011, 01:57 PM
Yeah that could be a real easy save. Have you checked the oil? If no water you should be golden. I would first pull all the plugs and see if water comes out. If dry then you are even better. If the cyls filled with water and people kept trying to turn it over, you could have damaged internals but then you usually have water in your oil. If you do get it to turn over then I would next pull the manifolds and see what cyls were leaking. You can look inside to see if it is bad. You can remove the valve covers to see if you have any stuck valves. You do NOT want to run this engine until you see what is going on. A "quick" start might take out a piston or more. If the valves look to be doing OK while you/somebody SLOWLY turns over the engine then you can probably buy a new set of manifolds & risers(which you will need with a new engine anyway) and see how it goes. I have seen MANY engines saved, really depends on how much water and how long it sat.

joseph m. hahnl
12-09-2011, 04:58 PM
pull the leg, pull the spark plugs, squirt some 2 stoke oil down each plug hole, put a wrench on the harmonic balancer. give it a pull or push. If it doesn't turn freely .Pull the motor . Do not use the starter to turn it over,You could score the cylinder.Not to mention a played starter can give the appearance that the motor is seized. chances are pretty good that worst case , you'll only need to re-Ring and main / rod bearings with a light cylinder hone. Ask me how I know:wink:

JayZ
12-09-2011, 05:31 PM
Plugs are out. Oil mixture going in. I'm going to see if I can spin the motor by hand ...I haven't tried only been told it was seized by P.O. so what do I have to lose?

At any rate, we'll see and I'll update all tomorrow.
Thanks for all your help.

silverghost
12-09-2011, 05:52 PM
You should give the oil in the cylinders a week or so to free up stuck pstons & rings~~~IF it is going to work.

JayZ
12-09-2011, 06:10 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

I hear you Silverghost. I just wanted to verify that the thing was seized in the first place. I purchased it assuming it was but haven't really had my own hands on it.

When it comes time to try to spin it over I assume that I'll spin it clockwise when looking at the harmonic balancer, yes?

...Do I simply attach a 3/4 socket with a breaker bar or is there something else I should do?

mattyboy
12-09-2011, 06:22 PM
If i read your first thread right the boat went in for service under it's own power than 3 weeks later it's seized. i 'd pull the plugs and try to turn it with the starter. I am thinking hydrolock , did the service mech look at it again?

JayZ
12-09-2011, 06:30 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]


Mattyboy, ...was kind of thinking the same thing. I have an old car that has two 3 barrell downdraft webers and I have gotten water down in them once or twice and pulled plugs and cleared it out no problem.

At any rate, plugs are pulled battery charger is on so maybe I will get lucky.

All the plugs looked pretty good except one had some funk on it.

As for hand turning it I am still curious if it is simply the 3/4 bolt on the harmonic balancer that I will use to spin the motor. anyone?

JayZ
12-09-2011, 06:49 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

...Let me rephrase. I am hoping it was only hydro lock. Stay tuned.
JZ

silverghost
12-09-2011, 07:07 PM
Yes~
With ALL sparkplugs out & some Marvel Mystery or 2 Stroke oil in each cylinder~
I would use conventional 1/2" socket set style breaker bar & 3/4" socket.
Do NOT put an extra long pipe over the breaker bar to extend it.
If the engine does not rotate fairly easily~~~
Do not force it.
It shold not take too much effort to move the crankshaft & engine internals.

Also~ Do not use a strap ,or chain, wrench on the outside diameter of the engine's harmonic balancer~~~
You could easily tear, or twist the outer balancer ring & break it loose from it's bonded-on inner rubber & center hub.
This could totally ruin the harmonic balancer .

If a valve is stuck you might also bend a push rod if you try to force it too much with the breaker bar.

joseph m. hahnl
12-09-2011, 08:02 PM
When it comes time to try to spin it over I assume that I'll spin it clockwise when looking at the harmonic balancer, yes?

...Do I simply attach a 3/4 socket with a breaker bar or is there something else I should do?

:yes:



Be careful not to over tighten the bolt on to the crank shaft if it is bound up to tight . work it back and forth a little at a time. If it does come free do a compression check to make sure that rings are not frozen to the piston.

Barry Eller
12-10-2011, 09:31 AM
Just a thought...is the starter good?

gcarter
12-10-2011, 09:58 AM
One more note;
The hot rod shops offer a large nut that will slide onto the crank nose after you remove the balancer, put a breaker onto the large nut.
I'd reccomend you not try to turn the engine w/the bolt screwed into the crank nose, it was never designed for that job, only to retain the balancer.

JayZ
12-10-2011, 11:30 AM
I assume the starter is working. It powers up and sounds like it is trying to engage but I haven't fully checked it.

I did try to turn the engine over by the bolt on the front of the harmonic balancer. I didn't horse on it too hard but enough that the bolt turned a bit ...but not the engine:(:(.

I haven't check the outdrive out yet. I did put it in gear both fwd and rev and then see what happened when I spun the prop. It seems to be going in and out of gear. The prop will turn a little by hand and then I guess the clutch engages or something and it locks up.

Barry Eller
12-10-2011, 11:44 AM
I'm just saying...check your starter before pulling the engine...a lot less work to change the starter....