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zelatore
11-28-2011, 12:08 PM
We've talked about this before; what would you do if xxx happened, weapons of choice, etc.

Here's a little story I got from a friend over the weekend:

Ok here’s my story from Saturday night:

My neighbors were out of town Friday through Saturday and I was watching their dogs at my place. Since I’m a loser and was home at midnight playing PS3 online, I took a break to go lock up my garage. Noticed that every light in their house was on, so I called them to find out if they came home unexpectedly or if they were expecting anyone at the house, he said no. So I told him that someone is in his house, and I was going to go see what was up. Grabbed two trusty pistols and headed over. After searching the downstairs and seeing a window broken, I headed for the staircase and there is someone standing on it with a shotgun (my neighbors shotgun), he sees my pistols as I round the corner and retreats upstairs and he begged me to let him out of the house (shotgun wasn’t loaded, wish I had known), and I told him as politely as I could to eff off. So he takes off and jumps out the second floor bedroom window and runs out the alley. Guy got away with a shotgun and some little jewelry, I think. Cops came and had K9 units in the house and were dusting for fingerprints until about 4 am. Pretty exciting night, also a little terrifying. Wish I had fired a shot though. He ditched a laptop, blue ray player and had tried to get the new 3D 50” TV off the wall, among other electronics.



Now, we all have heard stories about somebody getting in all sorts of legal trouble for shooting an invader in their own house. Can you imaging the crap that would have come down if my friend had actually gotten off that shot at somebody in AOTHER house? Let's see, the guy already was fleeing and begging to be let go so you can't claim self defense (well, he could have been lieing I suppose). I suspect the best thing that happened here is that my friend DIDN'T get that shot off - he'd probably be locked up right now if he had, even if he didn't hit the guy!

He's a fairly young guy, so maybe he didn't think about the consequinces. It's not like he goes around running his mouth all the time (I had no idea he was even armed) so I don't think he's out looking for an excuse to play John McLane or anything. Sort of makes you ask "what would I do?" You want to protect your neighboor's place and stuff, but at the same time legally you're only going to make trouble for yourself.

(BTW, at least he wasn't in CA...here they'd have probalby tied his ass in a knot just for carrying a loaded gun :nilly:)

gcarter
11-28-2011, 01:11 PM
There was the case a few years ago in a Houston suburb, where the neighbor shot the next door intruder in the yard when leaving the neighbors house.
I seem to remember the intruders(s) being killed (or at least one of them).
But then again, that's Texas, not CA where it seems the bad guys get all the breaks!

handfulz28
11-28-2011, 01:17 PM
He should've called the cops right after he hung up with his neighbors. He could've found the broken window and directed the cops to the alley, where he could be waiting in case they didn't get there in time. They probably would've busted the perp instead of dusting for prints after the fact. And if they caught him with the shotgun in his hands....well you can imagine the potential outcome....

Given that he spoke to the neighbors and knew that no one had permission to be there, he'd be in deep dog do entering a house armed, just to protect property.

zelatore
11-28-2011, 01:59 PM
Well, he wasn't in CA, but then again he wasn't in TX either. He was actually in Indiana.

He told me when he was talking to the cops they said 'you should have just shot the guy'. Somehow I don't think they'd have said the same thing if he actually HAD shot the guy...

As for holding the bad guy on-site, I wonder about that. I've wondered what I would do if I caught somebody in my house. I'd love to think I'd keep the gun on them and keep them pinned down until the cops got there, but the truth is I'd rather not take that chance. I'd just want them out of my house and as far away from me and my property as possible. Yeah, they might get away, but trying to hold a bad guy at gun point seems like a pretty dicey situation.

(Plus I'd probalby get in trouble for 'illegally detaining' them or something. I'm only half kidding about that...)

hardcrab
11-28-2011, 03:31 PM
In Maryland, if you don't get lucky and have an opportunity to plug 'em with a defensive round first ; you are NOT to even as much as detain the perp until "authorities" arrive.
I've had this conversation with the police, they only want a description of individuals and events and "they'll take it from there"
So, get your defensive round in first while the gittin' is good.

handfulz28
11-28-2011, 03:40 PM
Easy for the cops to say, they don't have the last word when it comes time to prosecute.

Wasn't thinking that he'd execute a citizen's arrest, more along the lines of telling the cops to come down the alley instead of trashing the front yard...or "stopping" the guy as he tried to open the back door with arms full of loot.

Actually entering the house looking for someone will be much worse than waiting outside, giving a command to drop the goods, and if you see a weapon - executing your right to self-defense.

The guy in TX popped a couple rounds into a burglar when he was running away from his neighbor's house. Arrested and prosecuted, he was acquitted at his jury trial. Don't remember all the details but he did all this while still on the phone with 911 I think.

Friendly PSA for the holidays: besides having 911, program the number to your local police department into your phone. If you have it, you'll use it.

RickSE
11-29-2011, 09:29 AM
On a slightly different subject. My Dad has a pretty good alarm system on his house and a full IR camera system in and outside the house. His neighbor gives him crap all the time stating that he doesn't need this system where he lives, but here's a true story to reflect on. My dad is in the security business. One of his coworkers got a call from his father in Washington State stating that someone had been breaking into the father's garage and stealing stuff. The son flew out to the father's place and quietly installed a camera system in the garage with hard drive recording. The son and father were the only ones who knew the system was there. A few weeks later the son's mom calls and says "Your father has been murdered and no one has a clue who did it." The father was found dead in the garage. The son flew back out to Washington State, pulled the hard drive from the camera system, took it to the police and said "Here you go." All the evidence they needed was on the hard drive. The father had been killed by an associate who owed him money. He had been breaking into the garage to steal items to sell. Just something to think about.

Capevettes
11-29-2011, 01:37 PM
In most if not all States you cannot shoot someone solely for the purpose of protecting property. For a shoot to be good it must be in self defense. In a home, confronted by an armed intruder you would merely have to articulate that you were in fear for your life. Shooting someone is never a desirable option but sometimes it may be necessary to protect you or someone else in the home. In Mass the old laws required you to retreat from your home. Now you don't have to retreat but you certainly can't kill someone unless you are faced with serious bodily harm or death.

Jraysray
11-29-2011, 01:45 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5278638&page=1

After the dust cleared the shooter said he wished he did not shoot them.

Marlin275
11-29-2011, 02:19 PM
"He should've called the cops right after he hung up with his neighbors." handfulz28

This is the right answer . . .

pipnit
11-29-2011, 03:05 PM
Your friend was a complete dumbass to NOT hang up the phone and dial 911. He's also lucky to be alive.

If someone breaks in to my house, they will get shot with a .45. Contrary to what people think, shotguns DO NOT make for a good home defense weapon.

zelatore
11-29-2011, 07:17 PM
Your friend was a complete dumbass to NOT hang up the phone and dial 911. He's also lucky to be alive.

I would agree. Bad move on his part, even if his intentions were good.


Contrary to what people think, shotguns DO NOT make for a good home defense weapon.

On the other hand, I don't agree here. We've had this discussion before (at least once...probalby more) but I'll argue in favor of a shotgun first, pistol second, and rifle last when it comes to home defense. Any handgun with enough take-down energy to be a decent defense weapon will punch through wall after wall of the typical home unless it happens to hit a stud. Further, even trained professionals such as police miss FAR more than they hit when actually required to fire their weapon. I think the miss ratio is something like 85% last time I read. Given that these are people who should be best able to handle a situation like this, what are the odds of Joe Average Homeowner actually connecting? Lastly, though a shotgun might not be a good choice for exterior work, in a house you're dealing with very close range situations. Likely less than 25' given the size of the average room. At those ranges, the shotgun has plenty of take-down power even from a short barrel.

I'm happy to hear your opinions why a pistol is the better choice though. Maybe you'll give me a reason to go shopping. ;)

Jraysray
11-29-2011, 08:30 PM
The difference is trying to clear or "operate" within tight quarters. The average joe walking around with a shotgun might as well have a broom stick. Get into a closet or bathroom with it and see how that works out. Sawed off pistol grip scatter guns work quite nicely but are a mandatory two hand situation. It's hard to say this but some times you just might need to hold your target still or use your free hand to keep from being one.

hardcrab
11-29-2011, 08:33 PM
Taurus Judge will fire .410 shells / slugs as well as 45 Colt rounds ...........


................. best of both worlds

Jraysray
11-29-2011, 08:39 PM
Shot one two weeks ago and hands down one of the nastiest weapons ever! At least what I have been exposed to. The 45 was worse than the 410.

hardcrab
11-30-2011, 02:32 PM
The first two are 410's, (warning injury), then come the 45's

biggiefl
11-30-2011, 02:51 PM
In FL you could have shot that guy dead no problem. The only problem might be why you were in your neighbors house shooting people. Correct thing was as stated...call 911. I have the ole .357 with a magnum round in the first 2 and then 2 shots of Snake shot(shoot em in the ass when running away) and then 2 more Mags in case they are still shooting at me. Second is the Browning Auto-Mag 5 with a 00buck, 2 slugs, then 2 high brass. Slug is in case I need to go through the cement walls. Lastly the best is to have a pump 12ga. The pump action alone would scare off most thieves as it is VERY distinct. My guns all have trigger locks so the above scenerio would not allow that crackhead to have an armed gun. FL is probably one of the worst places to rob people, our gun control is pretty much non-existent.

Team Jefe
11-30-2011, 05:35 PM
WOW....the one subject (well except for Trailer tires) where people tend to not like my opinions....its very tempting to just keep my mouth shut....but, most of you know I'm a good guy and I AM TEXAN!!!

Thank God for that becasue in Texas you can shoot somebody for protecting your property. That is actually a big section of the concealled carry class...."could you shoot somebody who was "just" stealing something from you????" HEAVY!! and actually I still don't really know....My guess is...NO. Shooting another human is a life changing event. Even if you're within the law, its gotta be tough to pull the trigger unless you or another life is in danger.

But here, you can do it legally under the "castle law"...and I'm not a lawyer trying to quote chapter and verse....and as we learned in the George Carter sited case....you can protect your neighbor's property too. But that was a presendent that is open for interpretation.

I'm with Don as well. my 22 Mag NAA pistol is to help me fight back to the truck or house where my .40's are waiting. those are to put some heads down long enough for me to get the shotgun out. When I'm at home, I will have both at the ready all the time.....and living out of town allows me a little more at ease to bullets going astray.

I will say this.... the tell-tale sound of a 12ga pump shotgun chambering a round is a chilling sound in a dark, quiet house. I have a friend who uses a laser pointer and digital recording of that sound as his home defense (he's not the sharpest tool in the shed) but he's done it to me unknowningly once and I scared the sh!t outta me!!!

Good part about my neighborhood...it screams "Rednecks With Guns & Dogs", regardless of your skin color...and we have them all. Plus there are easy pickin's master-planned editions coming and going that draw in the theives anyway.

At the end of the day, I pray that the guns are like Nukes in the cold war....a deterent. Ones that only gets fired at the range and the ranch!!!

f_inscreenname
11-30-2011, 06:42 PM
I live in Maryland but a few years ago I did a job for a Washington DC cop. Knowing DC's gun laws make Maryland's look like.............Texas I asked. "What would you do if you found an intruder in your house?" His answer, " I would rather judged by 12 then carried by 6."
Good enough for me and words I have lived by ever since.
As for this case.
1, should have called cops
2, never went into the house (maybe stood guard outside)
3, if outside and dude came out with a shotgun. I would have dropped him. (he pointed it at me and I had to do what I had to do)
If it was my house and he came around a corner with a shotgun (wouldn't have been mine due to they are in a safe) he would have been hit with a .45 eagle talon and I would let Servpro clean up the mess. Like the guy at the gun store said, "you don't have to be a perfect shot with the E/T's, anywhere you hit them and that part comes off."

biggiefl
12-01-2011, 01:36 PM
I agree but am also with Jefe on this. Say that guy did shoot the crackhead and killed him to later find out the 12G was unloaded. I bet anyone would have "issues" for a long time knowing that. We are'nt Dirty Harry, stuff like that could ruin a person/marriage/family, etc. even though you were "right" by shooting. My friend had a small plane crash in their yard decades ago and they still have problems with it. Imagine body parts and carnage all over your kid's swingset and stuff...no thanks.

pipnit
12-01-2011, 04:23 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

I understand. Let me preface this that I'm not a gun "nut." I DO enjoy shooting and am actually a pretty good shot. My guns:

Mossberg 12ga Pump
Browning Gold Cup .22 antique comp pistol
Les Baer .45 Premier II

I've gone through a number of others which I've sold as I don't consider myself a collector, nor do I want to be one.

I shoot the .45 the most and usually in winter months (when the Donzi and Dirtbikes are high and dry) and go through 2-3k rounds.

I am well aware of most of the pro's and con's of a piston vs a shotty. The main thing I don't like about a shotty is that it could be cumbersome in close quarters.

The PRO'S and CON'S:

Pistol:

Adv- easy to wield, high capacity
Dis-unless you buy something like Glaser safety slugs you worry about shooting through walls, easy to miss

Shotgun

Adv- hard to miss, choose the right load and wall penetration is reduced
Dis- unwieldy, more complicated, lower capacity


So, my answer for the BEST Home Defense weapon, with my preferences aside
Taurus Judge- best of both worlds

68999



All of this said, I hope / pray that I NEVER have to come close to shooting anything other than a target. I also think that in the vast majority of cases, pulling a gun is going to get you in a lot more trouble than not. I'm NOT of the "if you pull a gun, you're going to shoot it" mindset. I think that's silly.

f_inscreenname
12-01-2011, 05:56 PM
Sorry Big but I wouldn't care if the shotgun was loaded or not. I'm not taking the risk. I want to live forever and the win loss ratio is not in my favor of it being unloaded.
The reason I know this.....
I did flooring for 20 years. Half of that was residential. You would not believe how many loaded, ready to go guns I would find in areas we were working and the home owners new we were coming weeks in advance. People with kids were pretty good about it. Single folks (hand guns between the mattress and box spring) and older people (loaded shot gun in the closet). Hell in a lot of cases the first round was already chambered. People don't keep self defense guns unloaded no matter where they keep them. To hard to do in the dead of night, in the dark and takes to much time (that's why I keep mine in a fingertip combination gun safe. http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safes/mini-mini-deluxe.html ). So I would know, even if was being stolen out of a house there was a much better chance it was loaded then not and if wrong that was their fault for having it.
As for the folks that think that chambering a round in a 12ga is the best deterrent, when you hear my Kimber .45 snap that first round in the tube you will know what it is.

PS, Just a FYI, if you are ever having carpet installed in your house please remove from the area (and all adjacent areas due to furniture having to be moved into these areas) all bongs, guns, swords, bombs, bags of drugs, white or green, vibrators and sex toys, porn, porn of your wife or husband, piles of cash and any other incriminating evidence from the areas. Please do not just place theses objects in dresser draws (especially the top ones) due to they will have to opened to lift the dresser or under beds being the bed will be removed.
Finding these objects may slow down the installing process while they are gawked at, snickered about, watched, used (drugs...lol) decide who is going to say something and then removed.
Just a FYI.http://www.donzi.net/forums/images/smilies/shades.gif

BUIZILLA
12-01-2011, 06:23 PM
i'm almost afraid to come visit some of you guys.. :eek:


almost :cool:

hardcrab
12-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Buiz ........... call first. :wink:

Jraysray
12-02-2011, 11:30 AM
Ever run into one of these? Only $39.95 and its yours!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsV50T5uEyw&feature=player_embedded

biggiefl
12-02-2011, 01:23 PM
f_....I understand, just making a point that it might not be so black & white if you find out he was unarmed so to speak. Like you said better to be safe then sorry but like Jefe and all said, might be better to call 911 if you have the choice. Sheriff's station is 1/2 mile down the road. When I trip my alarm you can hear the sirens coming. As I tell ADT it was false you hear them shut off almost at my house and turn around....literally 1-3 minutes time they would be there guns drawn.

Marlin275
12-02-2011, 01:36 PM
then there is this . . .

Dog shoots man


BRIGHAM CITY — It wasn't his dog's bark or bite that had a Brigham City man concerned, it was his aim.
A man was recovering Wednesday after being shot over the weekend by his dog.
A 46-year-old Brigham City man and a friend were duck hunting Sunday about 8:30 a.m. on the north end of the Great Salt Lake near the bird refuge, about 10 miles west of Brigham City.
The two had their canoe-like boat in a shallow marsh area when the man got out of the boat to either set up or collect decoys. He laid his 12-gauge shotgun across the bow of the boat, said Box Elder County Sheriff's Chief Deputy Kevin Potter.

After the man got out of the boat, a dog inside the vessel jumped up on the bow and stepped on the gun. The gun fired and shot the man in the buttocks.
Medical crews later removed 27 pellets of birdshot.
"(The dog) did something to make the gun discharge," Potter said. "I don't know if the safety device was on. It's not impossible the dog could have taken it off safety."
The men called 911 and walked to the main road to wait for emergency crews. The fact the man was wearing waders likely helped prevent a more serious injury, Potter said. The gun was fired from approximately 10 feet away, he said.
Potter did not have information on the type of dog that stepped on the shotgun.
Even though the two were duck hunting near a bird refuge, Potter said it was legal.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=18299091&title=dog-shoots-man

Team Jefe
12-03-2011, 06:41 PM
Yeah, I think any mechanical mechanism working a round into the chamber would chiil someone to the bone in a quiet house. Lots of buddies have the Judge for home defense....y'all are convincing me about getting one.

Buiz.....Yeah, call first Since I'm not the only gun carrying nut at the Resort Del Jefe :eek:

And to be clear....somebody comes at me with a gun, and its empty...shame on 'em!!