Potential used cars

[tmh]

This is a bit off subject but there seems to be an interest in cars on this site. I am trying to narrow down used cars being considered. I was at this same point last year but have been afraid to spend the money in this economy. The maximum budget is $35k, possibly going to $40k for the right car. Cars being considered are a 2006 or 2007 Lotus Exige or possibly an Elise, 2006 or 2007 Porsche Caymen S, and 2006 or 2007 Corvette Z06 coupe. The car will be a weekend driver rather than a daily driver with anticiapated annual mileage of 4-6k. All three of these cars are quite different from one another. The Lotus could be a great track car but I haven't spent much time on a track and don't expect to in the future, the Corvette is a lot of car for the money but is far from a unique or an uncommon car, and the Porsche is not particularly unique or the highest performance but is well engineered, comfortable, with good performance. I was also kicking around a used Dodge Viper coupe as a consideration.

My daily driver is a 2003 BMW M-3 coupe and my other weekend cars are a 73 BMW CS and a 73 BMW Bavaria (both cars have 3.5 liter engines, 5 speeds, LSD from late 80's cars). You can never have too many cars.

I will still consider older collectable cars but there is something to be said for another newer car with good A/C, fuel injection, low wind noise at interstate speeds, etc. Any input is apreciated.
T.M. Hayes6876468765

[BUIZILLA]

the blue coupe is bitchin' :yes:

[Bubba Dog]

I'd stay Black Forest, nice azz. Man, I like that CS too. My son drives a '71 2002 I bought in 1985, the motor is balanced and blue printed. Mtr was built for Mr. Norburn's son (Miller and Norburn from Durham NC), a fire in the body shop consumed the intended recipient. Motor sat in the showroom for years, then I came along, still runs like a top.

Decisions, decisions...

A tough one, I grant you,

Bubba:cool!:

[Greg Guimond]

2003 RS6 and some bucks left over ?

[Buddyc]

+1 on the Blue Coupe. Love the lines!

[Carl C]

Or spend a little more :) 2012 800 hp Super Snake. $100,000 loaded.......Make it Red.
JK, have fun deciding, I wish I had your dilemma.:convertib:

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/new_york/2011/1104_2012_shelby_mustang_gt500_super_snake/

[BUIZILLA]

I had a '72 2002 Tii, same blue color, cream guts, fun car, didn't own it long though, bought a '72 SS El Camino...

[Bubba Dog]

I had a '93 325is, very quick, and a '86 535is, what a sedan she would fly. German engineering is awesome, driving machines.

To funny about the El Camino, I have a '60 E.C. now:cool:. Brian's 02 is Alpine white.

[dsparis]

Honda NSX

[glashole]

what about a mustang shelby

[Just Say N20]

The Viper will definitely get you the most attention by far, but will be the least enjoyable car to drive. They are a handful to drive. I found myself looking for dimes on the road to avoid, because this is about all it seemed to take to send them off track.

Lots of power and torque though. And they are cool looking.

In spite of it's huge performance capabilities, the Z06 is a very pleasant car to drive. Under the right conditions, it would make a good daily driver.

[tmh]

The NSX was a consideration but those cars have issues for headroom with me. The Mustang is my preferred retro car, although I keep looking at the cuurent mini cooper for a daily driver that would be good on gas, but the Mustang's suspension limits the cars handling and they are a fairly common car as to looks, which is my issue with the Corvette as well. The Lotus will be the best handling car with good fuel economy but it isn't practical as a daily driver to benefit from fuel economy. The Z06 Corvette is the most car for the money as to performance. I am leaning towards the Porsche Caymen at present but this can change daily. The funny thing is that this process of looking and wanting is an enjoyable experience. I'll be the old tire kicker that never pulls the trigger.
TMH

[VetteLT193]

once you are inside the car the 'vette will be the best. I agree on the looks though, blah. Another plus on the 'vette is parts won't kill you like the other cars.

The cayman is really a boxster coupe. If it were my money I'd buy an older boxster and save the rest of my money. And in my opinion, the porsche is no more unique than the 'vette.

maybe wait a bit a go for a Camaro ZL1?

[Capevettes]

I have an 06 Z06 and absolutely love it. Bought it last year with only 2,500 miles on it. 505 horsepower and it gets 27 mpg on the highway. The car is an absolute animal and is extremely reliable. They run 11's, pull over 1G on a skidpad and will do close to 200 mph. To get a nice, low mileage example (06/07) you would need to spend low 40's. Drive one and you will buy one :yes:

[zelatore]

I'll agree and disagree with some of what's already been posted.

I've thought about all of these cars at one time or another for myself, so here's what I've come up with.

The Lotus would hands down be the most fun track day car. The fastest? No. But when it comes to the track you won't find a bigger grin-inducing machine than a Lotus. On the road however, it's a different story. On the road a lot of power is more useful than millimeter perfect handling. As for the looks and rarity, I like them and you certainly don't see them on the road every day even here in the bay area but certainly lots of people don't care for them. Prices are quite reasonable, but I question the durability for regular street use. I know you aren't looking for a daily driver, but 6K a year would be a lot on one of these rigs.

The Vette always wins the bang for the buck category. Huge potential on the track and the monster motor makes it fun on the road too. Interiors are CHEAP; compared to your M3 it'll feel like junk. I wouldn't worry about racking up the miles too much as it's a fairly durable platform. The look is fine, but a little boring just because they are so common. Set aside extra cash for gold chains.

The Mustang actually offers more track potential than expected, but it's always going to suffer from the boy-racer image. Ultra-common car. Easy to live with as a daily driver if you wanted, and actually if you keep your foot out of it reasonable mileage. But it's just not in the same class performance or style wise as the other stuff you've mentioned.

Vipers offer huge bang for the buck on the track, but suffer mightily in every other category. And set aside LOTS of extra cash for gold chains!

NSX - rare to be sure, but getting up there in age these days and I'm not sure how they stack up performance wise against the rest of the pack. The unwashed will think it's a Ferrari; take that as good or bad depending on how you feel that day. I might be a little worried about putting the miles on it given the age and rarity, but counter that against 'it's a honda'. From what I'm told about them, they're actually a little boring to drive when you're just puttering around. A friend described it as 'just like driving an Accord' until you got after it. That's good for a daily driver I guess, but do you really want it in a weekend toy?

Mini's are an absolute hoot to drive. Cheap and about the most fun you can have in a daily driver level car. The grin will stretch more in a Mini than it cars with twice the power and 3x the sticker price. Rare? No. Fast? Not really. Does any of that matter? No - they really are a blast on the street. On the track I'm not a fan of FWD, but I suppose that's a personal opinion thing; maybe it wouldn't bother you as much.

Which brings us to (drum roll please)
The Porsche Caymen S

Some have suggested saving a little and getting a Boxster. Forget it! Ragtops are for posers and besides, the hard top not only looks better, it's stiffer and lighter. The Caymen is actually fairly practical in that it carries more than you might think in the front and back. It also gets reasonable mileage. Service is easy to come by as Porsche dealers are readily available, though I'd hate to do anything to a mid-engine car myself. I wouldn't be worried about putting the mileage you've proposed on it, and you can live with the car as a daily driver if you wish. In my opinion, it's Porsche's best car right now - I'd take it over any of the reasonably obtainable 911s and it's cheaper to boot.

And speaking of the boot...

Is that not the single sexiest rear end you've ever seen on a car? (excuse me while I go take a cold shower now)

Not exactly a rarity on the road, but not something you'll pass every day either. Certainly more panache than the Vette or Mustang while being at least as usable (or more-so) as a driver and more balanced than anything short of the Lotus on the track.

One last reason to stay away from the Boxster - no track days in a convertible without a full cage. Booooo....

So that's my vote: Caymen S

One last thing I'll throw in, based on the Mini comments. If you like the idea of a Mini for a driver/toy and don't mind waiting a bit, you might consider holding out for the Fiat 500 Abarth SS - if they actually bring the SS version to the states. The standard 500 is a pretty toy, not a driver's car. The Abarth is good. The SS is where the real meat lies. Sure, it's still not a fire breathing monster but it's rarer than the Minis (if less refined) and extremely playful. Might be worth a look. I see it more as 'in addition to' rather than 'instead of' the Porsche though.

[Ghost]

...Which brings us to (drum roll please)
The Porsche Caymen S...

...Some have suggested saving a little and getting a Boxster. Forget it! Ragtops are for posers and besides, the hard top not only looks better, it's stiffer and lighter. The Caymen is actually fairly practical...

...So that's my vote: Caymen S...



Disclaimer for the casual observer: Normally, I would never do this. But they say that turnabout is fair play. Due to my Alfa 'Sypder' (more properly 'Spider') screwup where he got me good some years back, I TOTALLY owe this one to Don. In fact, I think he'd be disappointed if I didn't do it. Working from memory, I think I have the fonts and wording about right, but I may have taken a little extra relish with the text size. :)

It's not 'Caymen' it's 'Cayman.' C - A - Y - M - A - N

Plus, I think he just called me a (former) 'poser.' So I assume he's putting an F-16 canopy on the 22. <ducking> :)

[Craig S]

wow! Always wanted a small bumper CS! works of art!

[biggiefl]

Plenty of headroom, cold A/C, etc. Save yourself $20-25k.

68769

[tmh]

Zelatore summed up my thoughts very well. Living in SW Florida sounds great for having a convertible but the added stiffness and reduced noise of a hardtop can't be beat. If it was a matter of saving money for comparable performance there would be no reason to have another vehicle besides the M3. Great car! I could really lean towards the Z06 but I have a mental image of associating Corvettes with gold chains and designer sunglasses, and I don't say this to insult anyone or demean the car. That is also my issue with the Viper coupe, even though I think they look great and are uncommon.

I bought my CS coupe 33 years ago this week as my first car out of college. I could have bought a new car for the price ($7,500) but have always loved the car's lines. I saw one on the street in Boston when I was in college and thought it was gorgeous.The cylinder head cracked for no apparent reason 6 months after I bought it and I lived on peanut butter and jelly and eggs for two months as the repair broke the bank.

I appreciate the input.
T.M. Hayes

[gcarter]

If it were "Caiman", it could also be called "Alligator", couldn't it?

[Ghost]

Yes. I think they changed the spelling to make it (more) trademarkable. But I think it was named for the caiman because of consistency with the product line (Carrera, Cayenne) and also because it looks like the eye of a caiman. Don't know if that's true, but both points leap out at me.

[biggiefl]

Comes with factory hardtop :wink:

[VetteLT193]

[ QUOTE=zelator]Not exactly a rarity on the road, but not something you'll pass every day either. Certainly more panache than the Vette or Mustang while being at least as usable (or more-so) as a driver and more balanced than anything short of the Lotus on the track. [/QUOTE]

you realize they have built over 300,000 boxster / caymans and that Porsche has been using that same basic body shape for 50 years? There is really nothing special or eye catching about seeing one. In all the cars listed I think it's by far the least unique. the best thing they have going for them is the bargain price, especially the boxster, which can be easily picked up for $20k with low miles.

Also, while a hard top will provide a stiffer platform, newer convertibles are better than ever. It certainly begs the question if having that last bit of handling is worth more than a fun car overall. On a time basis I have had 10000000 times more fun driving top off/down than I have pushing a car to the point where that last little bit of flex might matter.

[Capevettes]

Boy this is a tough crowd for a Corvette guy to endure :wink: The gold chains and pinky ring stereotype die hard I guess. That look went out in the 1970's. The Cayman would have a very nice view of the Z06 rear end as it walked away.

For the record, I don't wear any jewelry :kingme:

[tmh]

I swore at one point I wouldn't own a modern BMW as I associated them with yuppies with gold chains and/or a wireless headset, but the M3 is a lot of car for the money. I don't dislike the looks of the Corvette and if someone let me drive one for the weekend I'd probably sing the same song as the M3, perhaps louder. I actually like the CAYMAN's looks, and I was kicking around Boxsters for low to mid 20's, but this car is hopefully a bit of a dream car for me to take into old age. A coupe will have minimal wind noise, better visibility with the top up, along with the stiffer chassis and it is so hot here for 6 months of the year I'd never put the top down. I was surprised to see a magazine review/comparison of the Lotus with a Cayman S, including track time, and the Cayman won. But that was an Elise at 190 HP and the Exige ranges from 220-240 HP depending on year. The Lotus is interesting (at 2000 lbs) and I bet I'd love it but it has limitations and I'll bet my wife would bemoan it. It is an entertaining dilemna.

[handfulz28]

All this talk about track capability, but didn't you say it would rarely see a track?

FWIW, my dad just bought an '06 Vette. Just a plain jane model. I hate to say it, but I can echo what's been said about the quality - it just isn't top notch.

You want a Cayman over the 911 because of looks/rarity - do I have that right? I guess, but I mean if you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly...go with the real deal and do something unique with it.

[BUIZILLA]

look around for a 2003-2004 330Ci or M3 conv with a stick > ebay 110776778598

add a Vishnu box, it'll surpise ya...

or a '99 M3

[Phil S]

The most practical used car ever....look no further.

[zelatore]

RE: spelling

In my defense... ah screw it. No defense for me, I had it coming!

At least I didn't call it a Porch.

[zelatore]

RE: rarity of the Cayman-
I see lots of Boxsters and 911s but not that many Caymans on the road. I suspect its because it's more expensive than the Boxster and doesn't have the street cred among the general public of the 911. But I still think it's the best of the 'obtainable' (not counting the extreme 911 variants like the GT3) Porsches. Best looking, best balanced, best compromise of price/performance.

And let's face it, I have a thing for the rear view of that car like no other.

RE: Corvette stereotypes-
Sorry, I didn't want to step on any toes. I've periodically thought about getting a vette but just can't quite see myself doing it. No question it's the king of bang for the buck - I've been on track with plenty of them and they do go well. And it's an easy car to own since there are tons of dealers/aftermarket support/etc at reasonable prices. But it's hard to shake off the stereotype all the same. (BMW owner here, 335i, I've taken plenty of crap about yuppies/rolex/cell phones myself)

That said, all of these cars have a stereotype which may be true among the general public, but get to a track day and you'll find pretty much everybody is a real enthusiast.

RE: Lotus vs Cayman-
I was surprised at the comparison results in that test as well. I expected the Lotus to kill the P-car on the track. But like you said, that was the low HP Elise. However, on the track I value precision handling over outright power and speed any day. On the road I don't have a chance to really use 10/10ths handling, but big power (i.e. torque) can be used all the time. If you were planning to get into track days more, I'd push more for the Lotus. But for a weekend toy that MIGHT go to the track once or twice, I'll still vote Cayman.

BTW, if you do decide to replace that M3 as a daily driver, might I suggest a 135? If you haven't driven the new BMW turbo, give it a try. Just leave your checkbook at home unless you are ready to buy. :yes:

[biggiefl]

I would also look at depreciation. The Vette would probably hold up the best.

How big are you? A Lotus is not for anyone over 5'9" unless you traded in your Miata for it.

Track days...REALLY? IF and when do you go to the track? Would you be good enough to know the differene between x&y when it comes down to it? Like said above droptops have come a long way or else Lambo and Bugatti would have gone another route. If you have multiple cars that are all hardtops, why not have a ragtop?

Stereotypes? C'mon we drive Donzis. There is probably nothing on this earth with a bigger stereotype than that...ok a DeLorean.

[tmh]

I am 6'2" 180 pounds and my length is in my body rather than having long legs. The Lotus has an ingress egress issue but actually will fit a person of my proportions once you get in the car. But the Lotus will make a Cayman appear semi luxurious. The Cayman S will outperform most of the 911's on a track from what I've read and the Cayman is much rarer than a 911 based on what I see driving around town. I did consider the 98 and 99 911 for the final years of being air cooled.
I don't think of Donzi owners as belonging to the gold chain crowd at all. I doubt many on this list wear much jewelry but I could be wrong. I'll bet some of you have nice watches though.

[biggiefl]

I'm 6' and yes it was tight but not as bad as my wife's Miata.

Gold chains was not the stereotype I was referring to ;) ...but yes I do have a nice watch. What is the point of having a fast boat if you don't know what time it is?

Might have to start a thread about that.

[Ghost]

To lob in a data point, FWIW, my '03 Porsche had the best quality build of any car I've ever owned, by far. Everything fit. Nothing broke. Nothing rattled. Nothing squeaked. Ran great. I never should have sold it.

[zelatore]

Biggiefl, don't discount track days.

I don't know how much the OP actually does/plans to do them, but you could easily run 3 or 4 a year just with the local BMW or Porsche clubs here in the bay area. More if you wanted to drive a little further. Many more if you wanted to run with the.non marque specific groups like hooked on driving or NASA.

It's highly addictive!

[Ed Donnelly]

Bought a 08 Vette Convertible in July A6 Had a tranny and fly by wire tune

Its a blast..............Ed