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Carl C
10-01-2011, 10:38 AM
The wheels in my head are spinning again :). This will not happen this year but I am planning the next stage of my Donzi. The plan would be a WhippleCharger for $9,000, Bmax -2" drive for $14,200, Teague hatch scoop for about $1,000, offshore engine mount cost unknown, prop $1,000. This whipple charger kit ( http://speedonthewater.com/new-boats-engines/483-whipple-to-add-lower-price-upgrade-kit-for-525efi.html ) claims to add 50% more hp & torque. That should put me between 795-825 hp. The Bmax drive will produce more parasitic drag and I will be adding some weight. Soooo, how fast will this combo go? Does the plan sound good? Do I need to upgrade the transom assembly?

mattyboy
10-01-2011, 10:49 AM
carl,

i know this is not a real apple to apple comparison, this 22 se on lake george ran mid 90's with this setup i have not seen the boat in person in a few years. can't recall the drive setup if it had a shorty or not

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/v/album02/7_G.jpg.html

Carl C
10-01-2011, 11:18 AM
Is that everyday mid 90s? That's exactly what I was thinking was 95 pretty much anytime and maybe 100 under perfect conditions. Sound right?

Dr. Dan
10-01-2011, 12:06 PM
:spongebob: Carl - IMO - if you are seriously considering this type of an upgrade, I would speak personally with Jason Saris of Performance Marine in LG, he set up Denoyers 22 and that boat has clicked off 103 to 105 mph...but the drivers said they found God that day...so I am not sure they want to look to replicate that anytime soon.

Also Eddie Young out of the Central States and of course Ron Potter.... there are a myriad of considerations which Todd can attest too.

The reality in any of these cases is all based on individual hulls with unique dynamics that apply to them specifically.

Formulate some questions, put them in writing...and email them or when your ready call them. All of these guys are involved with their businesses, and are not too long winded on the phone...as an fyi.

But all of them respond in detail via - email in my experience.

Again...just a suggestion....:checkered:

Danny

Carl C
10-01-2011, 12:45 PM
Thanks Dan. Like I said this project would be a ways out. I need to meet some financial goals first. I would really need to do most of the work myself. The drive should be a bolt on. Brett will help me get it propped right. Brian would do the engine mount and paint the hatch. I can install the SC kit and scoop.

BUIZILLA
10-01-2011, 12:53 PM
and Undertaker can handle the remains... :nuke:

Dr. Dan
10-01-2011, 01:42 PM
:beer:[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

fysis
10-01-2011, 01:49 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE] Go ahead with the plan Carl . Cant wait to follow that thread.

Marlin275
10-01-2011, 01:56 PM
where is the external hydraulic steering on your list ?

Carl C
10-01-2011, 03:17 PM
Marlin, where have you been? http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?61294-Steering-PoPos-Back-Off!!&p=560492&viewfull=1#post560492

F (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?61294-Steering-PoPos-Back-Off!!&p=560492&viewfull=1#post560492)ixx, my XR upper will not live with that power and where and how I drive. And this is just so cool: http://speedonthewater.com/images/stories/whipple525.jpg

And the Teague scoops are nice looking pieces and I think the extra air would be a big benefit.

And just because that boat could go 95 doesn't mean it has to anymore than it has to go 83 now. Sooo, Undertaker, put away the embalming tools.......

CaribouLou
10-01-2011, 03:37 PM
You have kplanes? Those, external steering and a LH rotation prop will make the boat happier at 95 mph then it was stock at 70.

Marlin275
10-01-2011, 04:16 PM
Steering looks good, missed that post
I thought that was what that undertaker comment was about . . .

ralph crocker
10-01-2011, 07:51 PM
There is a beautiful 22 in Waterford. Todd has seen it. It has a 700 hp motor with blackhawk drive. It was dynoed and rigged by Tyler Crockett and I am told it c racked 100 on St Clair river. Todd said hull was great but needed a few things like an engine cradle. The motor is fresh. Could probably get it for $25000. Suggest you talk to Todd.It has dual external steering and K planes.

Ed Donnelly
10-01-2011, 08:07 PM
Carl;Why not this? Donzi 22 Classic Custom GT Fiberglass Engine Hatch w/ Scoop
Direct from Donzi??? Josh might even cut you a deal........................Ed

RockyS18
10-01-2011, 08:39 PM
Adding on to Dr. Dan's post, Jason Saris is the person to go to. He has been doing performance work for me for a very long time now, and put supercharges on two of my friends' boats, both with twin 525efi's.

tylogans 22
10-01-2011, 08:51 PM
Carl,
I would talk to Tyler Crockett in Ruby, MI he is 1.45 hours from Waterford, he re-did my 502-procharger motor. I'm currently running a 4-blade 32 with a stock Bravo 1. My next upgrade is installing a 2 inch imco in the spring I want to hit 5,000-5,200 rpm on a consistent basis currently I hit 4,700-4,800. You will have to make sure your ECM is calibrated for a procharger and you have to make sure your fuel pressure is correct if not to lean and you will detonate. I'm currently running 5lbs but that doesn't kick in until 4,800 rpm currently with the 32 my max rpm is 4,800. Trust me it's worth the drive up to Tyler's shop, me and Logan are always ready for a road trip to Ruby.

Tyler knows his stuff and he is located outside of Port Huron, to be honest your 525 runs great but I understand the need for speed.

take care,
Gregg

Gregg Wright
22 Yellow Devil
Waterford, MI

Carl C
10-02-2011, 07:55 AM
We're getting a little bogged down with details on a project that is still at the stage of a few neurons firing in my brain. The Whipplecharger kit pictured above is down to $9,000 because it includes remapping the stock 525 ECM rather than including a new one. I believe the price includes everything needed. A little research on OSO indicates that a Bmax upper with my existing shorty or a complete -2" Bmax would be the most economical drive choice. Using my shorty would require changing the vertical shaft. That's why it might be more practical to buy a complete Bmax and sell my XR upper and Imco lower.I prefer the Teague scoop over the Donzi SE scoops because it is more functional by getting the opening up into clearer air flow: http://teaguecustommarine.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/c/tcm_2500.jpg

I'm a little concerned about all the weight and wonder if this package, when dialed in, would be capable of fairly consistent triple digits. What model Ilmor/drive did Mr. X use to break 100?

undertaker
10-02-2011, 11:06 AM
Buzilla thanks business has been slow

undertaker
10-02-2011, 11:07 AM
The emoticons are not working oh well.....

Carl C
10-02-2011, 12:38 PM
Business is starting to pick up and I need to see what happens, especially at Christmas since I'm a retailer. I fully admit that I am bench racing right now but I do intend to go a step further with this boat eventually. There was a time a few years ago when the 525/XR/Imco/Zeiger was just talk.

Undertaker, I hope business is good for you but all old wrinkly people who have lived out their lives!!

Ghost
10-02-2011, 12:59 PM
Let me start by saying I don't have an issue with board racing. (Posting speeds attained in the field for comparison with other boats.) I agree with Todd's sentiment that it has real limits, but within those limits there's still some good info there.

That said, I think Carl has ventured into a whole different category here. And, I don't have a problem with the new category either. We can't all build everything we'd like to try, so speculation makes sense. It's kinda like brainstorming. I just think it is different enough from board racing proper that it needs a different name:


"Catalog racing."

gcarter
10-02-2011, 01:14 PM
"Buzilla thanks business has been slow "



Ed;
......There's always Florida....
Where I live, the death rate exceeds the birth rate.

gcarter
10-02-2011, 01:25 PM
Ghost:
"Let me start by saying I don't have an issue with board racing. (Posting speeds attained in the field for comparison with other boats.) I agree with Todd's sentiment that it has real limits, but within those limits there's still some good info there.

That said, I think Carl has ventured into a whole different category here. And, I don't have a problem with the new category either. We can't all build everything we'd like to try, so speculation makes sense. It's kinda like brainstorming. I just think it is different enough from board racing proper that it needs a different name:


"Catalog racing."





OK, I'll bite if we're just lookin at pictures in catalogs.....
I'd start w/this;
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/EngineShowcase/index.jsp?engId=LSX454&engine=LSX454&sku=19244611&engCat=lsx
and get rid of some excess weight.

Greg Guimond
10-02-2011, 01:52 PM
Wait a minute, is it bench racing or board racing? Or if you attend a rally where Road is present do you graduate from board racing to bench racing :rofl: How else can you develop a concept if you don't start super early with a few hopes and aspirations? It's what I call a "think tank". If it ends up actually happening, that's awesome, but the thinking out loud is half the fun.

Carl C
10-02-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm not catalog racing. I am considering supercharging this engine in the future. It will be a whipplecharger if I do and I will be sticking with the 525 as my base engine. This thread on OSO http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/263139-whipple-add-lower-price-upgrade-kit-525efi.html is what got me thinking. There also happens to be a good thread there about drive upgrades and the Bmax looks right for me. If I meet my financial goals this project could happen in 2-3 years. I just wanted to run it by the Donzi guys for input and if it could get me into triple digit territory. This hull is very stable and predictable over 80 mph. It could handle more. Do I need a heavy duty transom assembly?

Ghost
10-02-2011, 03:40 PM
<begin nasal playground voice> Oh yes you are. I't MY term. I made it up. And I get to say what it means.<end nasal playground voice> :tongue:

I'm doing it too (albeit with much slower speeds). How fast if I change cams, switch to 4 barrels and Clifford intakes, and replace my custom exhaust? How fast if I change cams, and go with 4 barrels on the stock exhaust/intake manifolds? How fast if I sell both motors and go to an 8.2 B3XR? How fast if I have a custom 540 or 572 built? And on and on. Like Greg said, 'bench racing,' 'think tank,' all the same sort of brainstorming concept.

One thing that always amazes me and makes me wonder--how different the results are amongst what looks like nearly identical setups. Subtle differences in production hulls, slight tweaks and tuning, etc. Seems like we've seen some amazing differences in performance from such little things. Feels like no matter what someone tries, there might be a year of prop experimentation at the end of it.

roadtrip se
10-03-2011, 11:36 AM
Hey Greg, to know me is to love me, especially if we ever get to meet at a run. AOTH is always the weekend before Memorial Day, and will be again in 2012, so mark it on your calendar. Like it or not, some of the board/bench/catalog racing numbers posted here are hear-say, inaccurate, trash talk, or sand-bagger oriented. I am as guilty of this as anyone else, but all of it drops aside when you take them to the water, as no one can hide there.

A great example of this is the Denoyer SE described here. It gets faster with every post. No doubt, it is a unique and I am sure, great performing boat. I am sure a lot of folks would love to see it run, including myself, some day. Ironically, I had a conversation in the past few weeks with someone who knows Denoyer, and it doesn’t run anywhere near these kinds of numbers, at least with the owner behind the wheel!

Ghost has hit on it here, at least around the edges. Set-up is key. I have spent 60+ hours tuning my boat since I went to the Potter power. It has been a methodical, detailed, and at times, fricking frustrating experience. And, I am not done yet, as we have a new Aronow hatch and Hering prop on the way.

Carl, my suggestion to you, having seen your boat on the trailer, is to start with the hull. The fiberglass work you did is not enough. I would add a layer of core to the equation to reinforce the pan. I would absolutely go to an HD transom assembly. The cradle and mount system from Brian, is a no brainer. I have been intrigued by the IMCO SCX upper tied to the SC shorty lower, but haven’t had the need to look at it too hard yet, knock on wood. Five blades are working better for me, than anything else, and I am deliberately staying away from BBlades lab work at this point, and haven’t needed it. I will be happy to share a lot of the little tuning tricks I have picked up along the way with you, should you actually go forward with the whipple.

To wrap it up, this ain’t easy, it ain’t cheap, and not everyone should be doing it, even if it was easy and cheap. Blowing smoke around on a chat board is one thing, taking it safely to the water is something different altogether.

Inferno
10-03-2011, 08:14 PM
Here's one for all the bench racers..... Hull (Classic 22) completely rebuilt with double stringers,cored,and re-fiberglassed using +-45 and 90 plus 600 lbs lighter than original hull.Then to the outdrive, I'll have an Ace Konrad with a shorty and a Herring 5 blade. The engine is a Dart 632 ci aluminum, est hp is 1100+ with Hurrican headers. The tabs are 24" with dual hydraulic steering. HOW FAST WILL THE BOAT BE ???

SamIam
10-03-2011, 09:37 PM
I would look at the Imco SCX upper with the Max Machine Worx billet lower.
Take the motor to Tyler, add a crank (540 cu), Dart Pro 1 heads, 4L Whipple = an easy 850-900hp on 91

roadtrip se
10-04-2011, 08:58 AM
Inferno. Well let me see here. Let's use the bench racing calculation engine process. Somebody ran 120 in an 18 in the past, take 700 pounds out of a 22 which makes it weigh about what an 18 would, subtract 10 mph for the Conrad versus the Arneson, another 2.4 mph for the structual reinforcements, horsepower is about the same, a normal 22 with an Ilmor 710 and Hering runs 103.5, scratch head and some other places out back for a few moments, and I come up with 107.6 mph. Please notice that I have applied no real world observations into this equation, just what I have read here, so I could be off by plus or minus 3.2 mph on my estimates.

BUIZILLA
10-04-2011, 10:06 AM
109... and change..

osur866
10-04-2011, 10:30 AM
Chart applies to 18's but pretty accurate, take into account that 10% HP loss through a Bravo if your using dyno results based off the crankshaft, you'd think a Bravo only eats up a certain amount of HP but not true 350 hp @ crank will be 315b@ propshaft 600 hp @ crank would be 540 @ propshaft and so on, something more for some to ponder on ;) The chart below shows prop slip @ 14 % which is a lil high so if you get that down to 9-11% you can do a tab better than the speed Vs HP

Inferno
10-04-2011, 02:02 PM
Would a Pro Charger get me to 120 ????? I've got 3 test pilots lined up.. any more takers ??? :confused::confused:

roadtrip se
10-04-2011, 03:05 PM
Inferno, would that be bench racing test pilot or real test pilot volunteers? Shouldn't have any problems finding plenty of the first, here. The second kind, well maybe not...

Seriously, though, and just for a minute, if I can. Osur, your Bravo parasitic drag number assumptions would seem a bit off to me. Figure on about 30 horses, not a sliding percentage basis, at least according to everything I have seen out there and experienced with my own testing. I do like the chart, but slip numbers of less than 10%, or better, are pretty tough to achieve with these hulls.

BRIAN73
10-04-2011, 03:08 PM
My Two Cents…..

Jimmy "D" Travels by my front window in his SE22 2-3 times a week during the summer and fall months. He rarely run's the boat to its limit due to unfavorable water conditions and over enthusiastic lake cops.

I did however hear and see him run the boat very hard a couple weeks ago around dusk when the lake was glass calm. I would bet that he was clicking off in the low to mid ninety's.

Too add a bit of credibility to my judgment, I've been in Mighty Mouse at 109mph, driven the #1 SE22 in Sarasota at WOT in stock trim. " See Catalog Brochure", Yes, we were running low 70's in that shot. I also was part of numerous radar gun tests in and out of the first 38ZR when it had a wooden engine hatch no seats and just a throttle and steering wheel.

In summary I believe that D's whippled SE22 will break the century mark with good conditions and someone with balls of steel.


Brian

BUIZILLA
10-04-2011, 04:52 PM
IMO, the chart cannot be that flat of an interpolation, rather more of a de-escalating hump... the bottom number is dead on at flywheel HP for an 18, and the top numbers would equate prop shaft HP numbers, assuming raised X dim's and optimum water conditions

once again, IMO

respectfully

RickSE
10-04-2011, 05:03 PM
Brian,

Do you know where SE #1 ended up? I heard it went to Canada. I own the black SE which I believe is #3. From what I remember SE #2 came with an XR drive but I never heard if the X-dim was raised on this boat.

Carl, why not go Arneson if you really want to let her rip.

What ever happened to Chris' Arneson 22C project?

GBond
10-04-2011, 06:46 PM
At what point do you run outta hull....? :biggrin:

Dr. Dan
10-04-2011, 07:16 PM
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::wavey::drive:

blackboat
10-04-2011, 07:34 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

And then theres the real world quote that gains you an easy 10 mph.

"How fast is your boat ? Well mine runs 98 and you beat me so you must be running well over 100" :wink:

roadtrip se
10-04-2011, 09:35 PM
I grew up on Grady Whites(so slow), owned and driven Fountains from 27-42 feet, gone for a ride in ZRC hull number one, and owned Classics of all sizes, including a relatively quick 22 at present.

With this experience, I have never seen the elusive, yet handy board racing gauge, yes, the eyeball GPS. I know it is common around some circles, for instance the 80 mph Bajas that I run across and pass at 70 in most instances.

If someone actually can get close to one of these things, I would love to see a pic.

Greg Guimond
10-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Board Racing
Bench Racing
Blog Racing
Catalogue Racing
Eyeball Racing

Holy chit............

osur866
10-04-2011, 10:21 PM
An interesting read on testing done on a 496 mag/exhaust swap/bravo loss/87-91 octane fuel/ difference between crankshaft and prop shaft HP enjoy.



http://www.fullthrottlemarine.com/496%20Mag%20Dyno%20Article.htm

LITTLE MAX
10-04-2011, 11:53 PM
This is from bam

http://go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm

RickSE
10-05-2011, 10:44 AM
Fixx,

I agree. That Whipple kit is nice but what the heck happened to their pricing? It's gone through the roof. I thought you used to be able to get a Whipple kit for around $5K.

Anyone know if the stock fuel injectors will work with the Procharger? Seems like you'd have to upgrade the injectors as well as the ecm.

blackhawk
10-05-2011, 03:21 PM
I agree with whoever said to have Crockett help/dyno the engine project. He rebuilt a friend's 502 and with a procharger he dynoed at 730hp. He also fine tunes the boat with a A/F gauge and his laptop in real world conditions.

roadtrip se
10-05-2011, 03:35 PM
How did an eyeball GPS turn into GPS Racing?

Oh well, so this appears to be turning into an exercise in attempting to bolt-on horsepower, whipple or procharger, on a budget, and go real fast.
Reality, it just don't work that way. Easy math, take your budget and double it, and you should be good to go, with whatever path you take.

Another angle? Skip the blower completely. Potter can take a 525 and make it rock in NA fashion. Less complexity, better internals, and less to go
wrong in the form of SC parts. Contrary to what the vendors tell you, bolting it on in the backyard together with all of the cheater systems for fuel delivery
and remote, guess-at-it-and-go ECM tuning and fuel delivery doesn't work very well. Even with a proper engine builder doing all of the work, why not
just beef up the motor to make the power and skip all the extra BS and expenditure of bolt-on power?

As a Great Lakes boater, where conditions can get ocean-like knarly very quickly, the simpler the better.

osur866
10-05-2011, 04:14 PM
Todd, agreed on doubling te budget, agreed on en experience engine tuner on tuned on the dyno, however there's nothing like the whine of the Whipple and when it hits full boost and pins ya back in the seat @ 65 and go from 65-90 in about 3 seconds watching the GPS not keep up with the acceleration, priceless!

Carl C
10-05-2011, 04:47 PM
I've been out of town for a couple days. I appreciate all of the feedback. I will call Whipple soon to see if their kit requires fuel system mods or any non-included expenses. Here is the SC but the price has dropped to $9,000: http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1180

(http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1180)As far as drives, the SCX is ultra expensive, includes steering and incorporates an extension box. The Bmax is much more affordable and I believe it is a bolt on Bravo replacement: http://bravoshop.net/Parts_Catalog.html



(http://bravoshop.net/Parts_Catalog.html)

BUIZILLA
10-05-2011, 05:38 PM
while I am a monstrous fan of wacky paddles,,,

Whipple has gotten stupid with their pricing

Fishermanjm
10-05-2011, 09:28 PM
Carl, your 22C would be one of a kind,,, that is for sure, its only money and ya can't take it with ya,,,i'm pretty sure i would s#!t myself goin that fast,,, got mine up to just over 60 on the factory speedo at the beginning of the season, last weekend with 1/2 tank and the drive trimmed a lil higher than i have yet, got the speedo past the 65 mark, that i could see from the helm seat, i am getting more comfortable with the speed, however i do respect it.

Carl C
10-05-2011, 09:43 PM
I did some more poking around and the SCX drive would be a contender but the Bmax seems highly rated too and is cheaper. Here is a good discussion on upgrading from an XR: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/drives-lower-units/262819-upgrading-bravo-xr.html An Arneson isn't going to happen because it would change the whole handling characteristics of the boat and I'd be starting over in uncharted waters. Plus they are expensive. I would just be looking to bolt on a Whipplecharger at the same time I redo the heads and gain over 250 hp with 7#s of boost. There is so much to think about but I do not have a money tree. A bolt on SC and drive upgrade and motor mount and transom assembly and smaller things could come to about $27,000. I could sell my drive and prop and recover some of that. Maybe I could do it all for $20,000 but I need to do the work myself. Whipple has already done the dyno work on the 525 and the price includes reprogramming the ECU. Todd, I think my hull is strong enough with the Donzi reinforcement kit and the layers of stitchmat that I added. I will be checking closely for any cracks when I winterize it but I think it survived the season OK. For sure an off shore type engine cradle would be needed but I'd like to keep adjustability. It would be nice if I could just do the blower and engine cradle but can an XR live behind 800 hp? My prop leaves the water a lot.

Fishermanjm, this boat ran 73 stock which was fun but not quite in the thrill zone. The acceleration and low 80s of the 525 makes it a blast to drive. The boat is very stable and well mannered and doesn't have any bad handling issues that some seem to have. If you have a good set-up and a few years experience, running over 80 is not scary or on the ragged edge. I know my boat can handle going faster.

Fishermanjm
10-05-2011, 09:58 PM
I would deffinantly like boating with ya Carl,,,

roadtrip se
10-06-2011, 01:04 PM
I'll start a match with the board racers, because I think the whole concept is ridiculous, as I have stated mutiple times here.
As for starting a match with Fixx or Carl, nope, just offering another option and another opinion.

Fixx. I am pretty sure Hedge's procharger install, ECM tune, and engine build-up were done completely in house by Eddie Young.
I am pretty sure that Catch's procharger install, ECM tune, and subsequent engine modifications were done completely by Doller.
My engine build-up and ECM tune was done completely in house by Ron Potter. So chances are pretty good that this backyard
project is going to be done by a qualified engine builder with a lot of engine set-up, if you want a successful install. So, my point
is to take a look at an N/A option, that will make serious power, without all of the added accessories that can fail and require more
maintenance. Simple as that.

Carl. Talk to Brian about the IMCO SCX, as he has installed them on Deano's and Ernie's rigs. They are are not perfect, but they are stout
units that can take it all. I do know that with a helmut change, you can use the Bravo transom and existing steering. They don't
require an extension box and many guys are running the SC shorty lower, which you and I both know works well on our 22s. BTW,
my XR combo is living quite nicely after two seasons behind some serious Potter power, no shavings either.

Steve, I love your install and the results. It was done right by a qualified engine builder. With an 18, the SBC is really the only proven
way to go and not add the weight of a BBC. But on the 22, the options are a lot broader and worth considering.

EDIT For Carl: My coring recommendation is based on a structual rigidity improvement goal, not structural integrity. The coring stiffens the
hull and eliminates flexing on the running surface at one of thinnest and critical areas of the hull. Stichmat will not do this, unless you
used 3/4 of an inch of it all the way across the bilge. I thought my boat had pretty solid handling before, but the coring, cradle, and HD
transom have improved handling dramatically at the same and much higher speeds.

BOBMX
10-07-2011, 09:25 PM
just .02 more cents worth. When it comes to horsepower, built in is "always" better than bolt on. Getting the horsepower you want right off the bench is the way to go in a "perfect" world. Sell your 525. With what you should get from that plus the $9000 +/- you were going to spend on bolt ons you would have a budget of around $25K. That will get you a good build that should get you well into the 90's. i'll buy your 525 as where you are now is where i'm looking to go. My winter project starts next week. I'm replacing my transom assembly, adding steering and tabs and beefing up the transom and stringers . My motor will be out for the winter so I'll be vulnerable to make a move on an engine during that time. Just food for thought!

Greg Guimond
10-07-2011, 09:44 PM
Nice to see new folks joining up...........sold sold sold Carl

Carl C
10-07-2011, 09:59 PM
Not 4 sale but there are a couple available right now. Brian has one here and there are some on OSO. IMO the look and sound of a Whipplecharger is hard to beat! I wonder how they made it work with the radical cam of the 525 and the relatively high compression ratio for a blown engine?

BOBMX
10-07-2011, 11:13 PM
Didn't notice the one here until just now. I sent an inquiry about the 2006 with 215 hrs on OSO, might be the same one thats here as its the same 734 area code. i'll check. Good luck which ever way you go.

Carl C
10-08-2011, 07:26 AM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

I don't know anything about that engine but Brian is a straight up guy who has worked on a lot of our boats in the extended Detroit area.

Carl C
10-08-2011, 07:36 AM
Sh!t. I found a Bmax w/Imco lower on OSO for $5,600 but I can't take the plunge yet. I need to pay down credit card debt this winter.

The Hedgehog
10-09-2011, 06:06 PM
There is nothing wrong with slapping a huffer on a blue engine as long as you understand that you are playing with a very low margin of error. I would not do it without someone professionally tuning it on both the dyno and in the boat. At a min, retuning it on the boat afterwards. I have been there with Eddie Young watching the AFR's of a perfectly tuned engine once it was put on a boat. I saw them on the dyno first and then they were all over the place on the boat. Boats don't load an engine like a dyno. If you have a fat margin of error, this is not as big of a deal. A whippled 525 will NOT have a fat margin of error. If you do it on credit card debt, be prepared for a bad day and a season that ends with a bang.

Probably the wisest comment is to sell the pretty blue engine and have an engine built for boost.

If you don't go SCX or Konrad, you will have XR gears. Heck you could put a titanium case around them but they are still XR gears. Be ware of "deals" on used Bmax's SC's etc. Folks will blow them a few times and they wont stay together after that. Then they dump them on OSO. Better off getting a stock XR, with that IMCO lower combo. Have someone good go through it and set the tolerances. A BMax upper vertical helps. So does a billet top cap. Beyond that, it is gears. I am sure that cryoing would help, but simply changing them after 100 hours is the way to go. BTW, I have some nasty pics of Tex's fancy IMCO upper case after the lower let go. Lot's of nasty deflection and metal chewing. Kind of like what would have happened with a stock XR

Playing around with 700hp is one thing, but all engines that pump out well over 800hp are living on borrowed time. Yeah, I would do it again. I doubt I would stick a huffer on a 525 and call it good though.

Enjoy, going fast is fun.

Carl C
10-09-2011, 07:28 PM
Hedge, thanks for the input. I have a lot of food for thought and plenty of time. Fixx, if you posted a link to the Bmax on OSO I can't seem to find it. I did find out that the old Bmax's are inferior to the newer ones. The SCX seems best though. I will consider all of this and sort it out before taking the plunge, if I even do take the plunge.