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maddad
08-19-2011, 10:09 PM
In the past I've been told I should put the bracket on my pump, but never thought it was really needed as there wasn't one there when I got the boat. The other day when I was headed to breakfast with the boat, at 5000+ rpm, the motor got very loud and the temps jumped. I'd had that happen before and melted everything by slowing down gradually, so I shut off the key and coasted to a stop. When I looked in the back, the housing/impeller/hose part of the pump came off the base/shaft/bearing part. The guy I was cruising with had a tool kit(hammer and duct tape)and I got the splines lined up and tapped it on a 1/2". Started the motor and had good water. While the motor was running it was easy to tap the housing to where it was fully seated and not leaking. I stuffed a childs life vest between the housing and bulkhead, duct taped it in place and headed off to breakfast. It seemed to be a solid repair and I even went for a little run after. No problems.
My two question are what are the chances there is no damage to the pump after this, and where can I get one of the brackets that hold the housing in place.
Thanks for any info guys.
Mike

mphatc
08-19-2011, 10:19 PM
Mike,

Wow, never seen this before, and your set up looks much like mine, we except I have a blue engine :wink:. . how long have you been running this set up?

Have you been able to get good engine temps? Is the cooling system running a high pressure that would cause the housing and impeller to move?

Mario

gcarter
08-19-2011, 10:32 PM
Mike, this outfit carries the bracket;

http://www.marineexhaustmanifolds.com/indmar-marine-engines-and-parts.htm

mrfixxall
08-19-2011, 10:52 PM
looks simple if you had to make one,,1/2'' pipe with a 90* bend and the flattened end bolts to the front of the block to the existing 2 holes next to the harmonic ballancer..

maddad
08-19-2011, 11:18 PM
Mike,
Wow, never seen this before, and your set up looks much like mine, we except I have a blue engine :wink:. . how long have you been running this set up?
Have you been able to get good engine temps? Is the cooling system running a high pressure that would cause the housing and impeller to move?
Mario
Mario, this motor went in last year, and when I put it in, I removed a pressure relief valve that was leaking and didn't replace it. Engine temps are back to a steady 138 after being 120 for a few minutes after the restart. I figured the thermostat was stretched from the temp spike and needed a few minutes to recover. Could pressure in the housing really spit the housing and impeller off the shaft and bearing?
George, thanks for the link, but after seeing the pics fixx posted I'm going to make one to save a little time.

MOP
08-20-2011, 11:03 AM
Mike I think that sucker walked off the shaft but not from pressure, there is nothing that really holds it except the pressure on the spline/bearing. I have to pick on you!!! I told you to put a bracket on it, the brackets main job is to stabilize and to keep the twisting off the hoses. Most of the damage I have run into has been from the shaking, these things will dance some bad if not setup right. Knowing this from the get go I machined a racelite pulley, you can set nickle on mine while it is running and I run a 1/4"X1 steel bracket. I doubt you hurt the pump, I sell a bunch and almost never have a come back. They are without one iota of doubt one of the best setups available bar none, it just plain dumb to run a belt setup. Just the work and aggravation of changing an impeller on a belt setup makes these a "Platinum" item. Hey Fix heft that stock Volvo bracket, it is very solid and expensive after market is only about $20.

Phil

maddad
08-20-2011, 01:48 PM
Phil, as soon as I saw what happened, I knew exactly what you, Randy and 6 or so other volvo/crank driven guys were trying to tell me.
Also, once I tapped it back on and stuffed in the life preserver shim, a high frequency buzz that went through the whole boat at high rpms went away.
With a pipe bender and some 1/2" galvanized conduit, a hammer and drill, I made a bracket that looks a lot like fixx's pic. The paint is drying now.

maddad
08-20-2011, 01:58 PM
On the last motor, I had a piece of pipe for most of the connection between the pump and crossover. I wonder if that acted as a bracket of sorts?

300EVIL
08-24-2011, 02:19 AM
Not that I'm a marine expert or anything but I really like what they did with the pump on my 289. They just use longer screws on the pump cover housing and attach a steel plate to that which then bolts to the timing chain housing using long bolts and standoff's.

What's nice about this versus using a "hose" to hold it in place is it won't "cam out" even under intense vibration.

I think it would be easy to fabricate for your motor with a band saw and a drill press...

You can kinda get the picture with this photo...

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/aaaaaaaa.jpg

maddad
08-24-2011, 09:32 AM
I do like the way that looks 300E, but it's going to have to wait until I have a motor on a stand instead of in the bilge. The bracket I made failed. The material wasn't strong enough to hold the housing fully seated. It probably would of stayed on, but I'm just going to see Phil on thur. and get steel one.

realbold
08-24-2011, 06:36 PM
I bought a bracket thats kinda cheezy. George got a much better one, at least it looks good in the pics.
Phil, mine dances around a bit. Not in the boat yet. Any suggestions?

MOP
08-24-2011, 09:08 PM
It is important to get it centered to stop it from dancing around, most use the stock crank pulley which allows some slop. What I have done in the past was to put thin O rings on the bolts, that would take up the slack. The best thing I saw was tapered washers that centered the bolts, I have been meaning to find a source for them. It is not good to have a 4-5lbs. item shaking the end of a crank shaft!

mphatc
08-24-2011, 09:19 PM
Mike, 300evil,

The image of the H&M water pump is a service nightmare . .

To change the alternator belt one needs to remove the water pump and the long bolts and standoffs, replacing an impeller is a royal PIA! This set the pump is driven through a shaft coupling . . lots of parts in a hard to access spot.

Mike, I use the same pump, and I've added only a rotational restraint . .inspite of a machined collar to center the drive hub of the pump to the crankshaft the pump still moves around on the hoses . .so a solid bracket is a no go for me . . . I now have to look at this again . . . :frown:

Mario

realbold
08-24-2011, 09:35 PM
Phil, mine has pre drilled, reamed holes that press fit onto the flanged holes on the crank pulley. I thought that would center it pretty well, but it didn't. It needs to be corrected.

mattyboy
08-24-2011, 09:40 PM
Mike, 300evil,
The image of the H&M water pump is a service nightmare . .
To change the alternator belt one needs to remove the water pump and the long bolts and standoffs, replacing an impeller is a royal PIA!. . :frown:
Mario
CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Evil on a champ where you can get to the front of the motor relatively easy, that setup is not so much a PITA. Put that setup in a 16 with the back seat inches away and it is a @#$#$%$##. One trick I heard just recently that old timers would do on that HM setup tie wrap a new belt in on the bracket out of the way this way if a belt breaks or needs to be replaced a pair of dykes and wrench and your good to go.
add power steering to that HM setup and it is a mutha****er

gcarter
08-24-2011, 09:55 PM
In this picture of the Minx SBC, the bracket is barely visible, but it's a lot easier to change a belt than you would think. Remove the hoses, remove the bracket bolt on the bottom of the pump, loosen the two bolts on the block end of the bracket then remove one of them. Rotate the bracket out of the way of the pump and remove the belt.
But something to consider.....you change the impellor a lot more frequently than a belt, and changing the impellor is extremely easy.
BTW, my source above has the brackets for about $25.00 the last time I priced them.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34764&d=1205500979

maddad
08-24-2011, 10:04 PM
George, I noticed that bracket in a thread about closed cooling and think that's the one Phil has.

300EVIL
08-28-2011, 01:06 AM
Evil on a champ where you can get to the front of the motor relatively easy, that setup is not so much a PITA. Put that setup in a 16 with the back seat inches away and it is a @#$#$%$##. One trick I heard just recently that old timers would do on that HM setup tie wrap a new belt in on the bracket out of the way this way if a belt breaks or needs to be replaced a pair of dykes and wrench and your good to go.
add power steering to that HM setup and it is a mutha****er

Ah! You are correct. Yes, I have that luxury. I could imagine removing my bracket with the back seat in place would be a PITA or close to impossible! :eek: Good tip on the zip tied spare.