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biggiefl
08-09-2011, 12:14 PM
I am most likely going to buy a 22C this weekend but was wondering how do you get back in the boat from the water? Will a hook ladder reach over the wide gunwales or do you climb up the outdrive over the rear deck? I would NEVER mount a swim platform on that hull but what about a transom ladder?

undertaker
08-09-2011, 12:46 PM
We use the outdrive, its rather easy IMO....just have to be a little careful around the prop.....:shades:

Undertaker:kingme:

Fishermanjm
08-09-2011, 12:52 PM
have the drive tilted up a little before jumping in the water, step up on the drive an pull urself up,,, i'm a 250 lber, its a piece of cake for me, just dont step up on the prop, cuz it moves on ya an hurts

CHACHI
08-09-2011, 01:35 PM
I climb the outdrive.

Ken

biggiefl
08-09-2011, 01:40 PM
I climb the outdrive on many boats but the wife hates it....I'll figure something out. My checkmate just had a ladder mounted to the transom that folded into the water...did not look bad at all but then again it was NOT a 22C which is the SEXIEST boat ever made.

roadtrip se
08-09-2011, 01:50 PM
My wife and I both climb the outdrive. Not a big deal, really, and we have all kinds of sharp hardware back there. You just learn to step around it. We all do it, more or less.

catch 22
08-09-2011, 01:50 PM
We use the outdrive, its rather easy IMO....just have to be a little careful around the prop.....:shades:
Undertaker:kingme:
What Ed said!!!!! :-)

Pismo
08-09-2011, 02:39 PM
Climb the drive..

Lowflyn
08-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Hate to have someone cut thier feet on the prop

Greg Guimond
08-09-2011, 04:22 PM
Just modify one of the removable dive ladders for corner mounting........

silverghost
08-09-2011, 05:18 PM
How about a small pair of cast stainless steel, or chromed bronze, fllp-down syle steps ?

Donzi Vol
08-09-2011, 05:58 PM
I wrestled with the same thing during my winter projects. I didn't want to have any reasons for girls to not go out on the boat with me. :wink: However, I learned that the easiest thing to do is to just climb the drive and make sure that everyone is careful around the prop. I just tell the girls that it's how it works and they need to deal with it. Charming, I know.

pipnit
08-09-2011, 06:18 PM
I put 3M grip tape on some of the top surfaces of my TRS drive.

MOP
08-09-2011, 06:54 PM
There is a place by me that has some nice self stick black soft non skid pads, I have looked at them a couple of times. If anyone is interested I will try to see who makes them. Phil

Greg Guimond
08-09-2011, 06:56 PM
You could take the bite out of the prop by just taking a rubber ball, slit it, and use it as a cover for the prop while at rest. Be sure you have a wide set of grab handles.

mrfixxall
08-09-2011, 07:15 PM
From a friends boat that i tie off to..

joseph m. hahnl
08-09-2011, 07:28 PM
From a friends boat that i tie off to..




You mean tie one on don't you!

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/8850692-lg.jpg

Tony
08-09-2011, 09:43 PM
I use the outdrive, while my wife and most guests use this one:

http://www.iboats.com/3-Step-11-Hook-Telescoping-Stainless-Steel-Gunwale-Eez-In-Hook-Ladder-Garelick/dm/cart_id.107412249--session_id.916067748--view_id.164826

It folds and telescopes for a smaller storage footprint, and we put a towel over the gunwale to protect it from the hooks.

Despite my cautions, I had a teenage family friend slice their heel open pretty good on my labbed ss prop, so if possible I do not want a repeat of that!


:beer:

Greg Guimond
08-09-2011, 10:35 PM
Agree, if you have folks on the boat who don't know the drill there will be a learning curve. Remember also that you will really need 4 rungs to make it easy to hoist up in deep water. A real dive ladder with leave you with this type of clamp on your transom to "plug" the ladder into. If its me, I do dual ski hooks per side, mount the ladder tongue between the two, with some type of slide pin to secure. No one will ever notice 4 tow hooks and then you can use them to elevate the entire boat to boot.

MOP
08-09-2011, 10:48 PM
Tony they are a timeless design! That is a great ladder especially in stainless, I have had a few aluminum ones, that one is classy!

Ghost
08-10-2011, 03:30 AM
Personally not a fan of schlepping the big ladders around.

I don't mind climbing outdrives and neither does my wife. But we have run into some people who were surprisingly inept, and with a pretty flat learning curve to boot. Surprising even me. And while you don't have to take them back out, it's probably bad form not to get them home. ;)

One thing I've seen a lot is that the lack of good (or conveniently placed) handholds can be one of the biggest hangups. Doesn't take much to rig a line, using cleats/lifting eyes/whatever that can help a lot of less experienced people, but you have to get it right, so it doesn't slip at all or it's more dangerous than nothing.

If you're looking for something pretty classic and subtle for footholds, with less risk of the ER trip, these strike me as being pretty good. Probably only need 1 or 2 of them, can arrange them as needed, can use as the first steps to get up to the top of the drive more easily, and most if not all of what you mount to the transom will be out of sight, below the waterline.

Of course, lots of folks here have tabs and external steering, so I suspect many folks here may not have room anyhow. In which case, I prefer Fixx's approach.

http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/deck_hardware/product/632/

http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/deck_hardware/product/660/

Less a fan of these, but still a lot smaller than a full-on ladder.
http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/deck_hardware/product/630/

biggiefl
08-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Tony...I have that ladder. Was the best on my Whaler Montauk because it would fold and fit in the console. That is why I asked if the hooks would go over the wide gunwales. I will see how it goes and let everyone know(have to go get the boat first). I also thought about the steps but transom is kinda thin on the sides.

For about a year I had no engine hatch on my 24' Baja and you had to either climb into the engine or walk over it....manifolds are hotter than you think. One reason I want a 22C is the hatch will never rot out or need to be reupholstered which mine did TWICE.

Greg Guimond
08-10-2011, 12:10 PM
biggie, do you have tabs on the 22?

Carl C
08-10-2011, 01:32 PM
A generic ladder will work with a little modification. I like to carry mine if I have kids or ladies or heavy people aboard that may be better with a ladder. Otherwise I have joined the majority and climb the drive! http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=345686&postcount=16

biggiefl
08-10-2011, 03:07 PM
Yes Greg it has tabs...Bennett 12Lx8w"?

Most of my boarding is done while the nose is beached so water may be thigh-waist high where the ladder would go and maybe chest deep at drive. I think my 3 step folding windline SS ladder will fit the bill on this boat as it has on the last 4....best $99 I ever spent.

I have not looked at this hull yet but I did spend a good deal of time inside a 1987 22C's bilge and I would be a bit nervous mounting a swim platform on that thin of a transom. I was kinda amazed out how thin it was outside of where the engine is mounted. I was also amazed at how skinny the stringers were but this 94 I hear is different. Is the transom still as thin on the sides?

blue boat
08-10-2011, 10:33 PM
:superman:I have to get that ladder, tuff when you have a inboard have to grab the rails and lift yourself up into the boat. Than try helping everyone else up pray their not to heavy.

TheFees
08-11-2011, 01:46 PM
Anyhow. I used to simply grab the side rails while in the water and with a clean jerk hoist myself up to the waist high position, with both of my hands on the gunnel top rail, and then swing my legs over and climb onboard. That was in my younger days.


So I hadn't used the boat in a bunch of years much, or at least used it in such a way that I needed to enter the boat. So one day I took it out, and I was a bunch older, and 40 or 50 pounds heavier. I tried the same method, and did something to my shoulder. I couldn't get out of the water. So I used the outdrive as an emergency procedure. I had shoulder pain for quite some time after that and had to be careful how I used it. It appears to be all better now. So ok enough of the long story, what is the perfect answer?


Line. Just go back to your boy scout days and take a regular dock line and tie a noose in it; one that doesn't slip. You don't want to be stepping into a noose that proceeds to tighten around your foot. So whatever that knot is that doesn't slip use that one. Then you want to tie the other end of that line on your inside grab handle. DO NOT tie it to your gunnel rail. Depending on the weight, and the amount of use that is not a good idea.


But tying it to the top of the side handle inside on the starboard side next to the seat, all the way at the top, the line does two things that way. First off the force is on the top of the gunnel, and then after it wraps around and goes down to the grab handle, the grab handle is not getting any force pulling it directly away from the side wall, just some upward force which is a way stronger way of approaching that handle.


I tried it a load of times and it works great. (I'm 200 pounds) You need to of course drop the line over before entering the water, and you have to gauge how long it is. While in the water you want to have the loop low enough to be able to get your foot in, and high enough that it will enable you to get to a standing position with your waist about as high as the gunnel top. Then you just swing the other leg over. So you grab the gunnel handles while using your leg strength to lift you up.


The nice thing about this method is that you only have one extra line onboard, no big bulky ladder. You also could get adept at doing it and simply convert one of your dock lines to serve dual purpose. However a thicker line that is on the soft side is ideal, and with a dedicted line you don't have to undo knots all of the time.


It may sound far fetched, but once you try it, and see how it works, you will be sold for a lifetime. Anyone, and I mean anyone can easily get in the boat this way, and no having to worry about slipping on the outdrive fin and opening up a leg vein. Then how do you get them out of the water? :nilly:

kennyellis
08-11-2011, 04:01 PM
I am most likely going to buy a 22C this weekend but was wondering how do you get back in the boat from the water? Will a hook ladder reach over the wide gunwales or do you climb up the outdrive over the rear deck? I would NEVER mount a swim platform on that hull but what about a transom ladder?


I would have said the same thing about mounting a swim platform, but 10 years ago I bought an '85 classic that already had a back deck. It's not original obviously but u wouldn't know it by looking at it. I'll post a few pics of mine to see what you think.
I had a Sweet 16 years before that and it is the hardest boat i've ever had to get in.:nilly:

99-28zx
08-11-2011, 11:34 PM
I just thought of the best fix for you. I do not know if you ever heard of Hornet Marine but we sell a 17 ft hornet which is like the original donzi hornet. I added a picture of the ladder that is used. The steps fold in and then the whole thing slides up inside the boat i dont know if you have the room for this inside but if you do its pretty neat.

And dont mind the subject i had a different idea for you before i thought of this ladder

BUIZILLA
08-12-2011, 07:43 AM
I do not know if you ever heard of Hornet Marine but we sell a 17 ft hornet which is like the original donzi hornet. well, actually, it's not.. :lookaroun:

Fishermanjm
08-12-2011, 09:45 AM
99,,, Is the ladder an add to all the Hornets? or customer request

gcarter
08-12-2011, 10:21 AM
......I'm waiting for someone to say they have their helicopter pick them up out of the water and land them directly into their cockpit.......:)

gcarter
08-12-2011, 10:31 AM
Actually, if the drive is brought up just a bit so that the foot landing surface is larger than the point that's normally horizontal.
Then, also, K-Planes don't move when you put downward pressure on them like Bennetts do so its easier to use them to stand on.

Greg Guimond
08-12-2011, 10:49 AM
Good point George and the K plane also has a nice flat top with ridges. I say, get the rubber ball, slice it and use it to cover the prop to avoid cutting off any toes.

zelatore
08-12-2011, 11:27 AM
I haven't seen one in person to know how robust it is, but that collapsible dive ladder on the Hornet is a neat and clean solution. I can see that mounting it firmly might be a challenge on some boats though.

Oh, and for the record we climb the drive as well. I've always hated those folding 'over the gunwale' ladders. For some reason they've always struck me as a bad solution. Of course I haven't actually seen anybody use one since about '85...I didn't even know they still existed.

And one last note, the 'non-slipping noose knot' you're looking for is a bowline. Perhaps the single most useful knot ever. EVERY boater should know how to tie that one!

TheFees
08-12-2011, 12:25 PM
I haven't seen one in person to know how robust it is, but that collapsible dive ladder on the Hornet is a neat and clean solution. I can see that mounting it firmly might be a challenge on some boats though.

Oh, and for the record we climb the drive as well. I've always hated those folding 'over the gunwale' ladders. For some reason they've always struck me as a bad solution. Of course I haven't actually seen anybody use one since about '85...I didn't even know they still existed.

And one last note, the 'non-slipping noose knot' you're looking for is a bowline. Perhaps the single most useful knot ever. EVERY boater should know how to tie that one!

Bowline. I knew there was a name for it. Thanks. Anyhow, I know on the surface of it the idea of putting a single line overboard with a loop in it doesn't seem like a very good idea, but if you would try this just once, and see how ideally, and easily it works, you would be a lifetime convert. Zero storage problems, zero injury risk, and incredibly useful. Be sure and use a thicker line, you know the type that is soft nylon or whatever. With the line in the water, and your hands on the gunnel rail with one clean motion you are lifted up to upper leg area being equal to the top of the boat. Then just swing one leg over and you are onboard.

Carl C
08-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Bowline. I knew there was a name for it. Thanks. Anyhow, I know on the surface of it the idea of putting a single line overboard with a loop in it doesn't seem like a very good idea, but if you would try this just once, and see how ideally, and easily it works, you would be a lifetime convert. Zero storage problems, zero injury risk, and incredibly useful. Be sure and use a thicker line, you know the type that is soft nylon or whatever. With the line in the water, and your hands on the gunnel rail with one clean motion you are lifted up to upper leg area being equal to the top of the boat. Then just swing one leg over and you are onboard.

Hmm, I wonder how the handle end of an old ski rope would work...

Fishermanjm
08-12-2011, 02:17 PM
LeCarl is always thinking,,,,, where do u tie off the standing end of the line agin?

Ghost
08-12-2011, 02:35 PM
An idea hit me yesterday. Might be interesting to mask off and rough sand the top of the drives, then run down to my local Line-X shop and have them spray the tops...

zelatore
08-12-2011, 10:20 PM
An idea hit me yesterday. Might be interesting to mask off and rough sand the top of the drives, then run down to my local Line-X shop and have them spray the tops...

That would certainly provide better grip than straight paint but I wonder how much grip it would really provide when wet? I know some bedliners I've had sprayed into my trucks have been better than others. The current one (can't rememeber what brand) pretty much sucks for grip.

Line-X would look nicer, but a few strips of 3M safety-walk tape would be faster, easier, and cheaper. Plus you could take it off if you don't like it, and I suspect it would provide better grip to bare feet.

Ghost
08-12-2011, 10:39 PM
That would certainly provide better grip than straight paint but I wonder how much grip it would really provide when wet? I know some bedliners I've had sprayed into my trucks have been better than others. The current one (can't rememeber what brand) pretty much sucks for grip.

Line-X would look nicer, but a few strips of 3M safety-walk tape would be faster, easier, and cheaper. Plus you could take it off if you don't like it, and I suspect it would provide better grip to bare feet.

My Line-X in my truck rocks when its wet.

Ghost
08-12-2011, 10:40 PM
That would certainly provide better grip than straight paint but I wonder how much grip it would really provide when wet? I know some bedliners I've had sprayed into my trucks have been better than others. The current one (can't rememeber what brand) pretty much sucks for grip.

Line-X would look nicer, but a few strips of 3M safety-walk tape would be faster, easier, and cheaper. Plus you could take it off if you don't like it, and I suspect it would provide better grip to bare feet.

The Line-X in my truck rocks when it's wet.

99-28zx
08-13-2011, 12:06 AM
Fisherman, it is a added option from the factory when ordering but most dealers stock the boats with the ladder, and to the other gentleman no the hornet is not just like the classics nothing can be like them but it is the same concept and they did take the hull tooling to make the boat. As far as each inch being the same and exact length,etc.etc. no it is not.

TheFees
08-13-2011, 08:23 AM
Hmm, I wonder how the handle end of an old ski rope would work...

Hi Carl,
Haven't spoken in a long time because I haven't been on the site. The handle end of a ski rope might work. I never tried it. If it does then that gives you a nice wide platform so to speak to step on. My first concern is that your foot may slide off to one side maybe creating a pinch.


I challenge everyone here to just try the dock line method just once, and report back here with your findings.

The trick is to use a big fat dock line perferably soft nylon, and to tie a knot that doesn't slip. (That way you are not winding up with a tight noose around someones foot.)


You also need to get in the water to get a good feel for how long the noose needs to be under the water.

Tie the top end onto the near vertical grab handle on the inside of the boat, to the top of the handle that is on the Starboard side for the passengar. Because the pull is at an angle to where the handle is instead of a direct pull away from the side it has all kinds of strength. I repeat DO NOT tie it to the gunnel rail at the top.


I'm telling you it works so well no variations are needed. I must admit a special end on there may be an improvement, but the line alone works just fine.

TheFees
08-13-2011, 08:37 AM
LeCarl is always thinking,,,,, where do u tie off the standing end of the line agin?

Tie it off to the inside grab handle on the passengar side. You don't want the line sitting in the middle of the handle, you want it sitting at the top. That way you are getting virtually zero pull away from the sidewall.
What do they call that when something is only pulling on something sideways? Lateral force?
My 18 has that handle on the inside so the passengar has something to grab onto when the boat is flying. Do the 22's have an inside grab handle as well?

Carl C
08-13-2011, 08:54 AM
Do the 22's have an inside grab handle as well?

Yes, and I use it to tie up to the little dock on Lake Oakland. I am going to try your idea but using the handle of an old ski rope as the step.

TheFees
08-13-2011, 09:23 AM
Yes, and I use it to tie up to the little dock on Lake Oakland. I am going to try your idea but using the handle of an old ski rope as the step.

Carl you may have just figured out an improvement to the system. But do me a favor and just try it with the line alone as well and let me know what you think.

Carl C
08-13-2011, 09:40 AM
Carl you may have just figured out an improvement to the system. But do me a favor and just try it with the line alone as well and let me know what you think.

okay

mattyboy
08-13-2011, 09:45 AM
they sell a blowboat boarding ladder at wests it has a clip and nice soft nylon rope with a wide non skid plastic step it worked well on the 16 but again once the family got the hang of getting up on the drive the ladder collected dust.

Carl C
08-13-2011, 09:53 AM
I am just so scared that someone's foot will slip into the prop and we all know how severe a wound could result from that.

mattyboy
08-13-2011, 10:18 AM
this is what we used on the 16 to the wrap around grab rail. not sure where on a 22 you would attach

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=24220&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10105&subdeptNum=10397&classNum=10398

patricke
11-22-2011, 06:56 PM
I purchased a west marine ladder for $39 and it just reaches over my grab rails and I can hoist myself up. The question is though, for suntanning and boarding the boat, how much pressure can the engine hatch take? I have never put weight on it in fears that it will fracture or I will bust through. Can I gingerly crawl across it when boarding from the stern? What are its limitations if anyone knows?

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100850&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50304&subdeptNum=50353&classNum=50354

biggiefl
11-23-2011, 10:11 AM
It is stronger than it looks but try and stay to the sides.

PMZONER
11-23-2011, 10:41 AM
I have two small brackets on the gunnel the ladder fits into. the ladder folds down well below the water line. Works great, climb right into the cockpit!

pipnit
11-23-2011, 11:34 AM
I'm not sure if it was this thread or another which I've replied to. On top of the TRS on my 18', there is a nice smooth flat area. I've put a piece of grip tape on that area and it's pretty good grip compared to just the paint. Never had a problem.

patricke
11-23-2011, 11:44 AM
ok good to know. I think I am going to get a small roll of area rug rubber anti slip backing to keep with my beach towels or some sort of yoga mat material to lay over the hatch. Over that I will put my beach towel when planning on laying there or boarding from the stern.

jstrahn
11-23-2011, 12:07 PM
An idea hit me yesterday. Might be interesting to mask off and rough sand the top of the drives, then run down to my local Line-X shop and have them spray the tops...

Wouldn't that cause increased drag, though. That might rob you of say .001 MPH on the top end. Completely unacceptable! :wink:

biggiefl
11-23-2011, 01:38 PM
For entering at the beach I bought a folding plastic step ladder that is about 2 1/2 tall that I put in the water and just step out of the boat onto. It folds up to about 8" wide so it stows kinda next to the pass seat. $24. I also use it to fill up the tank when on the trailer. Not sure what it is made of but gasoline eats it up so don't use it while standing under the vent. Although I started this thread I have not tried entering from the water but the PO did leave me a rope ladder like mentioned here from Theft Marine. With the drive shower, not sure how using the drive is gonna work.

oledawg
11-23-2011, 04:10 PM
What stinking water, I don't get in no stinking water when in my 22C. That is why I have a CorrectCraft for skiing, etc. The 22C is for cruzin and drivin...... All kidding aside, when my CC was indisposed I have pulled one of my adult kids behind it and the method for getting in is indeed use of the outdrive...