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Donziweasel
08-05-2011, 12:39 PM
Quick question-

I know you can paint over Gel. What is the best paint for a boat and what prep do you need to do to the gel to piant over it?

Thanks.

gcarter
08-05-2011, 01:55 PM
Fill any holes and large scratches w/some sort of polyester based filler, or primer, Duratec makes some good ones.
Sand and fair until you're happy w/the flatness of the surface (no ripples).
Final sand w/320 or so, clean and mask.
Spray w/a number of very good high end automotive paints, I like BASF UNO H-D two part single stage. I like single stage, they're a lot easier to repair, in my opinion. And you can repair this paint very easily.I've had very good success w/this paint on the Minx and other projects.
Here's a picture of the Minx shortly before I sold it and the paint was about three years old. It got very little attention except for an occasional rub down w/Acetone.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24266&d=1159816430

Some folks swear by base/clear, but I never cared for the complexity and extra work.
Other folks will use nothing other than the two usual high end yacht/aircraft paints, but my point is they're not the only kids on the block.

Conquistador_del_mar
08-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Do what George said. I want to add that your final prep work should include going longitudinally with 500 grit on a soft towel to make the final sanding marks going lengthwise with the hull. Use a towel or sponge to help spread the pressure so it is evenly sanded, and then go over the surface a few times with a good paint prep solution to remove any contaminants. Right before painting, go over the surface with a tack cloth. Bill

gcarter
08-05-2011, 03:43 PM
In addition to what Bill said, if you use a prep liquid, give it PLENTY of time to completely dry, several hours at least.
I had an incident w/the Minx (first boat I'd painted in a long while) where I tried to paint w/in an hour of wiping it down. The glass and gel absorbs a lot of the material and it will out gas for some time!!!!!:nilly:
When I tried to paint, it ran off like water!
Very frustrating, and a lot of extra work.

mrfixxall
08-05-2011, 04:04 PM
Imron.........

and just to add i like to use a used tac cloth,,nuw ones suck!! some ties thewax will stick yo the preped surface and will cause fish eyes..

Donziweasel
08-05-2011, 06:33 PM
Thanks guys. I have an idea for a classic I am going to try. :)

George likes BASF, Mike likes Imron, I got another PM with a thumbs up for Imron. Anyone have any experience with Awlgrip?

thescooter
08-05-2011, 07:09 PM
a 16' donzi in my marine was painted yellow.
they used interlux high gloss and painted with a brush.
just amazing,its beautiful.
nick thescooter

Buddyc
08-05-2011, 07:11 PM
Thanks guys. I have an idea for a classic I am going to try. :)

George likes BASF, Mike likes Imron, I got another PM with a thumbs up for Imron. Anyone have any experience with Awlgrip?
+1 Imron. It isnt the easiest paint to spray, and if you lay it on wet it will run everywhere. One good thing about it now is that have great colors and now a marine specific grade of imron. Im using thier faring compound and it works great. They also have a Marine clear coat for thier paint. Im using it on my 66.
Best of luck and feel free to give me a shout if you need anything.

mrfixxall
08-05-2011, 08:11 PM
awlgrip is a bitch to blend but im sure offshore ginger will chime in and say you can blend it with the tip and roll method ;)

its all good as long as its poly urathane..

gcarter
08-05-2011, 08:25 PM
The BASF UNO H-D is an acrilyc/polyurethane two part, single stage paint that's extremely easy to paint, it gives incredibly good results for an amateur like me!
It's also very easy to repair, just sand the area, spray, and after about 5-7 minutes, spray the perimeter w/their 200 reducer. Sand and buff the next day and the repair is completely invisable.
No kidding.

If someone wants professional results w/limited experience, I can't reccomend this paint more

zelatore
08-05-2011, 09:58 PM
Thanks guys. I have an idea for a classic I am going to try. :)



<sits tapping foot waiting for details....>

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-05-2011, 10:33 PM
awlgrip is a bitch to blend but im sure offshore ginger will chime in and say you can blend it with the tip and roll method ;)

its all good as long as its poly urathane.. Fixx ,what a Smart A$$, and DonziWeasel , the bottom line is ..........unless you have many hours .....spraying Imron or Awlgrip , ( experience ) i would suggest throwing that.....on the back burner ....because both paints are very , very wet ......... and to tell you the truth i would recomend PPG- Base Coat -Clear -Coat ....because the worst painter in the world , can come out l@@king like a seasoned pro .....because it is really is that simple and buff's like butter , and if you need a primer i also recomend Duratec - by Hawkeye Industries , http://expresscomposites.com/duratec.html

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-05-2011, 10:37 PM
a 16' donzi in my marine was painted yellow.
they used interlux high gloss and painted with a brush.
just amazing,its beautiful.
nick thescooter Thank you Nick, for this post and did you read this Fixx , ha ha ha ha S/A .:hyper::nilly::yes:

mrfixxall
08-06-2011, 01:38 AM
Thank you Nick, for this post and did you read this Fixx , ha ha ha ha S/A .:hyper::nilly::yes:


Now who is the smart azz? no biggie,,i usually roll and brush the bilge and thats it...i like to use my sata guns for the exterior..

Ok what next? you going to tell me that yamaha snomobiles suk?

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-06-2011, 06:37 AM
Now who is the smart azz? no biggie,,i usually roll and brush the bilge and thats it...i like to use my sata guns for the exterior..

Ok what next? you going to tell me that yamaha snomobiles suk?Yes....... because....... actually they Doo.......................... get it ...........because nothing runs better then a Doo......... :)

Donziweasel
08-06-2011, 07:31 AM
sits tapping foot waiting for details....>

All I will say is that instead of going with a modern resto on an old Donzi, I am going nostalgic on a newer one, if that makes sense.

George makes a good case for the BASF.

Ginger and Fixx, behave. Yamahas and Doo'd both suck. Arctic Cat M1100 turbo is all I have to say.

joseph m. hahnl
08-06-2011, 08:24 AM
They are using the tip and roll method:yes:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/142/257/RackMultipart.19982.0_display_image.jpg?1264060005

Buddyc
08-06-2011, 09:10 AM
I would not use bc/cc below the waterline. Tell you what, Fly me out there and I will paint imron for you if you want... I will leave my brush and rollers home for painting walls not boats

Buddyc
08-06-2011, 09:17 AM
...Or do what George says. He makes a good case for what he used. Its not rocket science, HAve fun with it and best of luck:)

Morgan's Cloud
08-06-2011, 10:12 AM
Thanks guys. Anyone have any experience with Awlgrip?

Umm , yeah ... quite a bit ...

But in reality everyone have their favourite based on their own criteria.
Is it durability one is after ?
Ease of prep and application ?
Cost?
Stay overboard for extended periods ?

I really think that no matter what you use , it all comes down to the prep . You just can't get away from it ..And all good finishes start with a lot of tedious prep.

Our boats out here don't have the luxury of living in barns or under cover between uses , so we don't use 'exclusively ' automotive finishes.

Donziweasel
08-06-2011, 10:33 AM
I will be painting the whole boat, interior, hull, etc.....

I have used a can of spray paint before. Does that mean I am a professional painter? :bonk::smash:

I am looking foward to the project, but I have never painted a damn thing. I have the tools, shop, etc..... I think this is going to be a really cool project.

I like the solid colors with white stripes and pure white interiors from the 60's and early 70's. I also liked the white steering wheel, morse shifter etc..... You can see where I am going with this. Take a mid to late 90's 18 and go retro with it. I have a color already picked out.

Going to be big power, -2 lower, and a whine under the hatch.

silverghost
08-06-2011, 10:35 AM
Will any of these various paint coating systems hold up to six month season long continous saltwater immersion on the aft sides of a Donzi classic style hull ?
Or is original gell, & re-gell coating ,the only thing that will hold up under constant saltwater immersion exposure ?

Budmann
08-06-2011, 10:39 AM
You asked about Awlgrip? here you are! Oh, one other thing... THE ENTIRE BOAT WAS BRUSHED!!!!!


Buddy

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-06-2011, 10:57 AM
You asked about Awlgrip? here you are! Oh, one other thing... THE ENTIRE BOAT WAS BRUSHED!!!!!


BuddyBuddy . looks awsome , and i am glad to see you posted those pics to show other's on this board .:yes:

Morgan's Cloud
08-06-2011, 11:12 AM
Will any of these various paint coating systems hold up to six month season long continous saltwater immersion on the aft sides of a Donzi classic style hull ?
Or is original gell, & re-gell coating ,the only thing that will hold up under constant saltwater immersion exposure ?


Surprisingly ,I've had no problem with the immersed sections so far ..A testimony to prep maybe ? Now the hull bottom itself is a completely different issue. Def would only paint that if the boat was kept dry.

mrfixxall
08-06-2011, 11:27 AM
Yes....... because....... actually they Doo.......................... get it ...........because nothing runs better then a Doo......... :)

ha ha!! you just dont know any better. I see more doo'a stuck on the side of the trail then any other sled!!!!! i have owned all of the surviving mfr's products and the only one that have not let me down is the Yamaha's..


ok back to painting.................

superhatz
08-06-2011, 11:51 AM
Love this thread.

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-06-2011, 05:05 PM
ha ha!! you just dont know any better. I see more doo'a stuck on the side of the trail then any other sled!!!!! i have owned all of the surviving mfr's products and the only one that have not let me down is the Yamaha's..


ok back to painting................. Really back to painting , but Yamaha , ha ha ha ha ha ha . Fixx , i kinda figured you for a Jap loving kinda guy ......considering i see more Yamaha's here in mich on the side of the road then anything else or the sled grave yard . ......O -well to each is own . Donziweasel , just curious have you decided on what type of paint you are going to use and the application & Fixx , did you see post #23 , ha ha ha ?

Buddyc
08-06-2011, 05:14 PM
I , for the life of me don't know why someone would brush a boat instead of spraying it .... other than not having the ability to do so...oh well good luck DW

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-06-2011, 05:34 PM
I , for the life of me don't know why someone would brush a boat instead of spraying it .... other than not having the ability to do so...oh well good luck DW Buddy , i agree ...considering i spray a lot of Imron and Awlgrip and to tell you the truth........in my opinion there is not much difference between the two paints when spraying but.......................... like i said in a previous post i have seen some pretty nice work coming out of a local Marina that freaks people out including myself .

mrfixxall
08-06-2011, 05:34 PM
Really back to painting , but Yamaha , ha ha ha ha ha ha . Fixx , i kinda figured you for a Jap loving kinda guy ......considering i see more Yamaha's here in mich on the side of the road then anything else or the sled grave yard . ......O -well to each is own . Donziweasel , just curious have you decided on what type of paint you are going to use and the application & Fixx , did you see post #23 , ha ha ha ?


OK Cyber Bully!!!! at least if my yammi were to brake i would be covered for the next 5 yrs under the extended warranty..doos?? lucky if you even get covered for the next 2 yrs..you come home stinking like a outboard motor and i still smell like the foo foo i put on in the am..you stop every 120 miles for fuel and i think about filling up at 200 miles,you have to buy 2 stroke oil for what is it now?? 40$$ a gallon and i have to change mine every 3000 miles which costs 25$$ at the most to your 500$$ in oil that you polluted the air with..

DW i went that route and you know how i feel about AC..and you know i still have my zrt for bouncing off the trees;)


Artie,,,,,,,,,,,,did you blow up that pic??? look real close,,by the time you roll out the first 3 feet i would be sitting down sucking down a beer waiting for the first coat to tack up while your still brushing..:eek:

hdsadey
08-06-2011, 05:43 PM
Imron is great. Already has a flex additive in it, makes chipping it harder to do! Can add Super Wet Look additive for extra deep gloss. A friend of mine was building a swamp buggy and was askin me about paint that would hold up to abuse. I showed him the bellhousing on my outdrive shot in Imron. I took a 3/4 Snap On end wrench and smacked the chit out of it, dented the aluminum but never chipped the paint. The look on his face was of course priceless!!!! ha

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-06-2011, 05:45 PM
Fixx , to tell you the truth you are the Cyber Bully because you can not or wont give anything a rest and the funny thing is..................just where is this going and do you even know ? Fixx , try to stay on coarse ,and stick with the topic...................please because i am not in the mood for a pissing match over sleds , and who really cares ?

mrfixxall
08-06-2011, 06:29 PM
Fixx , to tell you the truth you are the Cyber Bully because you can not or wont give anything a rest and the funny thing is..................just where is this going and do you even know ? Fixx , try to stay on coarse ,and stick with the topic...................please because i am not in the mood for a pissing match over sleds , and who really cares ?


truth!! i just made a statement about yamaha and you bashed them period....and your rite who gives a phuck,,, you have your ways of doing things and i have my ways,,are either of them the wrong way.. NO!

ok now back to painting...

superhatz
08-06-2011, 06:48 PM
Brushing would have one advantage....no overspray. I'm considering it because of that...

Plus...can't you just wet sand and buff any "issues"??

:anchor:

dsparis
08-07-2011, 07:23 AM
When I was a kid I worked at Merritt boats http://www.merrittboat.com/, arguably the best sport fishing boat builder in the world. They used roll and tip.

BUIZILLA
08-07-2011, 07:43 AM
sooo...

what was decided ?:bighug:

handfulz28
08-07-2011, 08:04 AM
I , for the life of me don't know why someone would brush a boat instead of spraying it .... other than not having the ability to do so...oh well good luck DW

HUGE time efficiency by not having to tape off everything within 50 yards to avoid overspray. Don't need a dry air source. Don't need to clean anything afterwards. How many places have a dedicated paint booth? You can paint everything right next to each other.

I've debated this with my brother about painting the work trucks. He wants to spray, I brush. I ask him if he remembers how long it took him to spray the first truck (3 days). Took me less than an hour to roll, PLUS I didn't have to tape nearly as much.

mattyboy
08-07-2011, 09:08 AM
Love this thread.


:yes:

My exposure to classic boats has been mostly with painted boats. my 16 was painted with imron over the green gel It is still holding up well .It was painted in 98or 99 I got it in 01 and kept in in the water for 3 seasons may to oct. by the end of the third season it started to show some blisters I sold it in 07 it has been left in the water since then about the same length of season it shows some more blisters but not alot more hard to see thru the water stains on the boat. the other 2 paint jobs I have been around are a PPG bc/cc boat and an awlgrip boat both are over 8 years old and show like they left the paint booth yesterday. both bpoats are only dunked and left dunked for a few days at a time and live mostly on a lift or trailer. even when they are out on the water they are really never in the water as the drivers run the boats hard. the paint holds up well

the new boat is paint over gel not sure what kind paint, it has been exposed to salt and was painted in the mid 90's it still looks very good. we'll see how it holds up

I had a friend who showed me some things to look for in a paint job, I wish he never did that now that's all i look for and the ooopseys stick out like sore thumbs.


so there are different paints and methods for different people and applications that seem to hold up well with the right prep work and a little care.

Budman the 22 looks awesome

Donziweasel
08-07-2011, 02:35 PM
Ginger and Fixx, for the last time, you are both wrong. Arctic Cat rules supreme. You guys should meet out here and I will take both your asses up to 10,000 ft in 500 inches of champagne powder and you tell me who rocks! I have a M-1100 turbo coming this fall that will whip both your asses. Hell, my M-1000 with NOS will whip ya too. Now, enough about sleds, start another thread and I will be happy to join in.


It was painted in 98or 99 I got it in 01 and kept in in the water for 3 seasons may to oct. by the end of the third season it started to show some blisters


Matty, thanks for the info. How bad were the blisters? Will any painted boat have blisters if left in the water? Mine will be on a lift or trailer most of the time I think.

How hard is gel to shoot just out of curiosity? Is there a big benefit over paint? I know some guys are gel or nothing.

I have a bunch of nice paint guns and other stuff at Alltrans, Inc., so I am going to shoot it instead of brushing. I have used some damn good slef leveling paints brushed on, but I need to learn to shoot. I have some automotive stuff I want to shoot, so, the Donzi will be a learning event.

I am down to Imron and the BASF stuff George uses. Sounds like the easiest of the paints to learn to shoot.


Last question, how many coats are you guys shooting when you paint a boat, including hull? What about clear coat? Any benefit to it in a painted boat?

You guys rock! Thanks for saving me a lot of grief trying to figure this out by myself. I am sure grief is coming, but hopefully I can minimize it.

gcarter
08-07-2011, 03:35 PM
When you shoot any of these paints correctly, there's very little finish work left to be done. It can be so good, no finish work is needed. I think any paint will eventually blister.
Gel can get osmotic blisters, may or may not take longer.

With gel, shooting it is just the start of the process as you'll have to sand it at least 6-10 times to finish it. Not fun.
Shooting gel is very similar to spraying undeercoat, it's very thick. You need about .020" to start with, when you finish, you'll have about .010" left.

Budmann
08-07-2011, 05:27 PM
Buddyc... YES sprayin is better but if you don't have access to a spray booth brushin is the next best thing! Also, you control the amount of paint you apply EVENLY!!!!

Also...bet my cost was WAY less than you would have charged!

just sayin....

Buddy S

Budmann
08-07-2011, 06:11 PM
btw...how do the "MEGA YACHTS" get new paint????????? SPRAY BOOTH???

oh George... how many $$$$$$$$$ do you have in ur boats?

:shocking::shocking::shocking::shocking::shocking:

Buddyc
08-07-2011, 06:22 PM
M
Buddyc... YES sprayin is better but if you don't have access to a spray booth brushin is the next best thing! Also, you control the amount of paint you apply EVENLY!!!!
Also...bet my cost was WAY less than you would have charged!
just sayin....
Buddy S
I offered DW to come paint it for free... sounds cheap enough to.me

Donziweasel
08-07-2011, 06:28 PM
Got to get my donor boat first Buddy.

Alright, gel sounds like a PITA.

How many coats of paint are you guys putting on?

Budman, boats looks great.

gcarter
08-07-2011, 06:56 PM
How many coats of paint are you guys putting on?

Depends on the paint as some paints are denser than others.
One of the advantages of the BASF RM UNO-HD is, the HD stands for "High Density". It'll cover in one coat, and two are reccomended, but I usually spray three so there's material for finishing, if necessary.
Here's the site;
http://www.rmpaint.com/en_UK/products/range/unohd.xml

Buddyc
08-07-2011, 07:05 PM
3 coats is ususlly standard to keep the shine. If your going to clearcoat then the color coat only has to cover and you get the shine from the clear. I'm doing imron the whole boat and clear everything from the stripe on the hull up. No need for me to clear the bottom.
My offer will stand if you ever need it... you have always been cool with me.

Donziweasel
08-07-2011, 07:38 PM
Thanks George.

Buddy, I will keep it in mind. It is a winter project. Do you ski? :)

Buddyc
08-07-2011, 07:47 PM
Hell Yeah. Been to Park city a few times and Alta. Was supposed to go to Whistler BC 4 years ago but tore my ACL. Im good to go now though

Donziweasel
08-07-2011, 07:51 PM
Maybe a ski/paint trip? If it works out, maybe you could come when Hedgehog and Last Real Texan make thier annual migration out here. I will help paint. This entails me sitting in a corner watching and drinking a cold one..... :)

Better make it soon, this may be my last winter here.

Now, someone find me a donor. 1994-1998 18, preferably a bravo boat, engine doesn't matter........ :)

Buddyc
08-07-2011, 08:40 PM
Count me in. Sounds like alot of fun!! As long as your sitting in the corner, you can hand me one of those cold ones every once and a while... were in good shape :)

mrfixxall
08-07-2011, 08:45 PM
i can get buyys pass's...get the gel and i can show both of you how to gel and lay it out like imron :shades:

Buddyc
08-07-2011, 08:57 PM
i can get buyys pass's...get the gel and i can show both of you how to gel and lay it out like imron :shades:
You going to use a brush or roller?:confused::wink:

Donziweasel
08-08-2011, 01:46 PM
I found the Imron colors but can not find BASF UNO paint colors. George, do you have a link to the BASF colors? Thanks.

gcarter
08-08-2011, 03:05 PM
I found the Imron colors but can not find BASF UNO paint colors. George, do you have a link to the BASF colors? Thanks.

John, there're very few stock colors as it's a system for repairing after market cars. The site I posted above says they have 29 tint bases. They match any of mor than 10,00 different colors found on most any vehicle.
The local shop was able to match the navy blue gel on the sides of the Minx. They do have hundreds of chips of stock colors. Then there's all those vehicle codes.............

I guess the answer is "What do you want?"

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-08-2011, 03:36 PM
John, not to shy you away from using Imron but...............Imron can sometimes be very overwhelming to a person who sprays it for the first time with no paint experience ...........just because it is a very wet paint .

Scott Pearson
08-08-2011, 04:51 PM
Imron is not a true urethane. It’s modified enamel with a urethane catalyst. PPG Concept single stage and BASF Uno are nice products. Painting something with high solids urethanes is much more than just grabbing any old spray gun. Of course 90% of any paint job is preparation. But you better have the proper equipment to spray these products…guns…compressor…etc. If I can answer any of these questions please let me know. I can assure you…I can help.

gcarter
08-08-2011, 05:06 PM
If I can answer any of these questions please let me know. I can assure you…I can help.

Thanks Scott for speaking up.
I'm sure everyone here will appreciate it, and that it'll be very helpful. :yes:

Buddyc
08-08-2011, 05:17 PM
Hey John, Another option is U-tech. It is a product of Akzonobel, Or more comonly Sikkens. They have a 3.8 Polyurethane High Solids system that a few Auto body shops I know rate very highly. Near me there is a paint store called Till Paint compant ( been there over 100 years) They tell me It is comperable to Imron but a lower voc and not as "tempremental". I saw a 20 yard dumpster that was painted with it and the inside looks like it was shot last week and it is almost a year old... Just food for thought:wink:

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-08-2011, 05:33 PM
BuddyC, Sikkens has a great product (paint) and when i was at Powerquest boats they offered a very nice system for mixing and matching colors which was awsome ........if you used there product .

mrfixxall
08-08-2011, 05:40 PM
Nexa Autocolor is another good one!

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-08-2011, 05:47 PM
Scott -P , i am glad to see that you mentioned the proper equipment for spraying this type of paint because ..............i have a small fortune invested in equipment alone .

Scott Pearson
08-08-2011, 06:00 PM
Buddy...U-Tech....Its great for dumpsters. I wouldnt put it on my boat. You know what they say, you get what you pay for. Just like BASF Limco or Sikkens Lesonal...or PPG Omni or Shop Line.

Spend the extra money and get the higher end paint from whatever paint company you choose. You will be glad you did.

Also Nexa is owned by PPG...just a FYI.

Donzi Vol
08-08-2011, 06:19 PM
Maybe a ski/paint trip? If it works out, maybe you could come when Hedgehog and Last Real Texan make thier annual migration out here.

I will help paint. This entails me sitting in a corner watching and drinking a cold one..... :)

Better make it soon, this may be my last winter here.
Now, someone find me a donor. 1994-1998 18, preferably a bravo boat, engine doesn't matter........ :)

I can probably help with that portion of the project. Let me know if you need some added support in that area.

I'm curious about this project. Sounds like you're going all out here.

mrfixxall
08-08-2011, 06:22 PM
Buddy...U-Tech....Its great for dumpsters. I wouldnt put it on my boat. You know what they say, you get what you pay for. Just like BASF Limco or Sikkens Lesonal...or PPG Omni or Shop Line.

Spend the extra money and get the higher end paint from whatever paint company you choose. You will be glad you did.

(((((Also Nexa is owned by PPG...just a FYI.))))))


Yep !! which use to be ICI Autocolor...use to spray for them back in the day ;)

hardcrab
08-08-2011, 06:24 PM
U-Tech is what they use to paint the metro buses in Balto city

............ tough, yeah. but utility use.

Buddyc
08-08-2011, 06:24 PM
Well your a PPG rep, so im sure you may be a bit bias. No worries. you tell me you use a bc/cc on your boats. Myself and others would recomend against that for anything below the waterline.Im going imron on my boat. Too many people have had great luck with it ( they paint dumpsters with that too):bonk: I painted a fleet of dumptrucks for PennDOT with Imron... You dont have to spend big bucks to get a big buck job.

Scott Pearson
08-08-2011, 06:34 PM
Imron was never designed for use below the waterline...period. Just like PPG Delfleet or Delta. There are only two manufactures in the whole country that make a product that can be used below the waterline...and I assure you Dupont is not one of them...or PPG or BASF or Sikkens...etc.

As far as being bias...re read my posts. I have always metioned other companies.

And another thing...I would love to meet the guy spraying dumpsters with Imron...Its to much money to be using such a product on that applacation. Metro Buses yes...all day long...but not dumpsters....sorry.

mrfixxall
08-08-2011, 06:36 PM
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/2532266789.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/2532212622.html

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/2482130689.html

x 18 http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/2527577958.html

mrfixxall
08-08-2011, 06:40 PM
Imron was never designed for use below the waterline...period. Just like PPG Delfleet or Delta. There are only two manufactures in the whole country that make a product that can be used below the waterline...and I assure you Dupont is not one of them...or PPG or BASF or Sikkens...etc.

As far as being bias...re read my posts. I have always metioned other companies.

And another thing...I would love to meet the guy spraying dumpsters with Imron...Its to much money to be using such a product on that applacation. Metro Buses yes...all day long...but not dumpsters....sorry.


my whole boat is painted with imron,,been over 10 yrs and it will sit in the water from friday night to sunday evening,,still looks like it was painted yesterday..

dupont also has a industreal fleet line which is half the price as the car line...maybe this is the product he is talking about

Buddyc
08-08-2011, 06:43 PM
U-Tech is what they use to paint the metro buses in Balto city

............ tough, yeah. but utility use.
a Shine is a shine, It sticks, Doesnt chip, Takes a chit load of abuse and is ready for more. I dont see much of a downside. Im going to get a quart of it comped from a Sikkens rep I have known for years. Fir grins Im going to spray it on something and see how it works. I like the low VOC.

Buddyc
08-08-2011, 06:51 PM
my whole boat is painted with imron,,been over 10 yrs and it will sit in the water from friday night to sunday evening,,still looks like it was painted yesterday..

dupont also has a industreal fleet line which is half the price as the car line...maybe this is the product he is talking about
Imron has 4 divisions, Marine, Industural, Aviation and Commercial. I dont know there price compairsons with other products and honestly I dont really care.
So what are these 2 paint companies you mention that are able to paint below the waterline?? Unless its Bottom paint..lol
Hey Scott? Did anyone ever mention you come off in your posts with a god complex? All knowing? Just a hunch and im sure im way off base:bonk:

hardcrab
08-08-2011, 06:54 PM
a Shine is a shine, It sticks, Doesnt chip, Takes a chit load of abuse and is ready for more. I dont see much of a downside. Im going to get a quart of it comped from a Sikkens rep I have known for years. Fir grins Im going to spray it on something and see how it works. I like the low VOC.
that may be true, if there is a color / shade / luster you're happy with .

Donziweasel
08-08-2011, 07:00 PM
Imron is not a true urethane. It’s modified enamel with a urethane catalyst. PPG Concept single stage and BASF Uno are nice products. Painting something with high solids urethanes is much more than just grabbing any old spray gun. Of course 90% of any paint job is preparation. But you better have the proper equipment to spray these products…guns…compressor…etc. If I can answer any of these questions please let me know. I can assure you…I can help.

Alright, now I am really confused. First, for equipement, I have some really nice Sharp guns.

The whole boat, including hull and below water line will be painted. Matty has mentioned blisters if it sits too long in the water.

Scott, since you are a paint rep, help me out. I have never shot paint before, but am very detail oriented and willing to learn. If I screw up, I am just going to chalk that up to the learning curve, sand, and start over.

So, for a newbie who has some nice shooting guns, is detail oriented and going to shoot a whole boat that I want to look good and hold up, what, in your opinion, is the paint for me. I will PM you a pic of the color I am going for. It is top secret................. :)

mrfixxall
08-08-2011, 07:01 PM
a Shine is a shine, It sticks, Doesnt chip, Takes a chit load of abuse and is ready for more. I dont see much of a downside. Im going to get a quart of it comped from a Sikkens rep I have known for years. Fir grins Im going to spray it on something and see how it works. I like the low VOC.

Scott ALWAYS leaves the punch line out of the equations!! But Thats Just Scott and i think he is suffering from SPS...

Ill call you and let you know the names :)

Scott Pearson
08-08-2011, 07:03 PM
Any paint can be used below the water line just as long as the boat dosnt stay in the water for long periods of time. Buddy...go ahead and use Imron....Leave it in the water for a few weeks....You will get blisters...Period.

All knowing??? no...far from it. But I do know paint like the back of my hand...I sell millions and millions of dollars of it a year..and I can paint like no ones business also...I understand the chemistery of the products also. I'm not some amature!

FYI...Take a look at others opinions on Imron use...buy hey...guess I have no idea what I'm talking about:http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/8241-imron-below-waterline.html

http://www.sailingtalks.com/forums/showthread.php?14819-imron-polyurethane-hull-paint


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/fiberglass-paint/143311-paint-under-water-line.html

mattyboy
08-08-2011, 07:12 PM
Fixx,

your results with imron are very similar to Pearson's results with ppg bc/cc and the results we got with awlcraft 2000 on the cig 19. all of these paint jobs are over 8 years old and still look great. they are dunked for days at a time not weeks or months and I am sure there are no goldfish bowls on your front seat. The cig is not babied when in the water and the shots of Pearson driving well his boat is never really in the water. so these paint jobs take abuse, flex pretty well , and shine pretty well. I would say any of these will blister if left exposed for longer periods mine did. hell don't we all remember blisterboy!!!! his boat was gel.

Scott Pearson
08-08-2011, 07:21 PM
John,
A few questions:
How big is the compressor you will be using (CFM) (HP) (Stages)?
What size ID air line do you have?
What size fittings will be used at the gun?
What style gun will be used?
What size tip, needle and air cap is on the gun..(This is very important)
Will there be sufficant air flow where you will be spraying?
Will there be a desiccant dryer or some other sort of moisture control?

mrfixxall
08-08-2011, 07:41 PM
Scott -P , i am glad to see that you mentioned the proper equipment for spraying this type of paint because ..............i have a small fortune invested in equipment alone .


John,
A few questions:
How big is the compressor you will be using (CFM) (HP) (Stages)?
What size ID air line do you have?
What size fittings will be used at the gun?
What style gun will be used?
What size tip, needle and air cap is on the gun..(This is very important)
Will there be sufficant air flow where you will be spraying?
Will there be a desiccant dryer or some other sort of moisture control?


He will be using a binks no 7 and me and buddy will be taking turns blowing in theend of the air hose ;)

Donziweasel
08-08-2011, 07:53 PM
John,
A few questions:
How big is the compressor you will be using (CFM) (HP) (Stages)?
What size ID air line do you have?
What size fittings will be used at the gun?
What style gun will be used?
What size tip, needle and air cap is on the gun..(This is very important)
Will there be sufficant air flow where you will be spraying?
Will there be a desiccant dryer or some other sort of moisture control?

I haven't decided if I will shoot it at Alltrans, Inc. or at home. My shop is cleaner than Alltrans.

The Alltrans compressor is 200 gallon, 3 stage and a beast. My compressor at home is a single stage Craftsman 120 gallon.

Standard 1 inch airlines, although I have a 2 inch for bigger things, like our 1 inch impact for bus tires.

As for the guns, no idea. I will have to look and see what I have. Alltrans, Inc. has some nice Sharps, they were 400.00 buck each when purchased new about 8 or 9 years ago. No idea on tip, needle and cap. Any recommendations would help.

All my compressors have hard lines that run around the shop with drians at each location where you plug in the hoses. Plus, we have some very nice inline moisture reducers.

Conditions will be 70 degrees and as you probably know, humidity is rarely over 20% here. Some days it is 0%.

I have a Arctic Cat sled in the shop, so the paint should go on nice because I don't have a Yamaha or Ski Doo. :)

Phil S
08-08-2011, 07:54 PM
He will be using a binks no 7 and me and buddy will be taking turns blowing in theend of the air hose ;)


Man...that one got my funny bone !! :yes: :wink:

Donziweasel
08-08-2011, 07:58 PM
hell don't we all remember blisterboy!!!! his boat was gel.

Poor guy. Hopefully my paint will hold up better than his ZX. I lost some respect for Donzi after that one. Not the fact that it blistered, just the fact that they refused to fix it till the bitter end.

Buddyc
08-08-2011, 08:17 PM
Any paint can be used below the water line just as long as the boat dosnt stay in the water for long periods of time. Buddy...go ahead and use Imron....Leave it in the water for a few weeks....You will get blisters...Period.


Im going to go out on a limb here and guess that a small percentage people leave thier boat in the water for no more than a few days let alone a few weeks. I cant see my boat being in the water for more than the day im using it. You got me there, I dont sell millions( picture you with your pinky at your lip) of paint. Im no rookie either and I just found something that is on the back of my hand that I didnt see earlier...lol
This isnt a pissing contest and were not measuring Johnstons... But we can if you like...
Just trying to help a friend on the registry that has always been cool with me... He can decide to use whatever paint he wishes, I am fully confident in my ability to give him a great job he will be happy with for years and he can keep feeding me beer between coats.
Hey John, I will bring an extra regulator, Fixx blows harder than I do....lol

Scott Pearson
08-08-2011, 08:33 PM
Ok...have fun.

mike o
08-08-2011, 08:40 PM
i can get buyys pass's...get the gel and i can show both of you how to gel and lay it out like imron :shades:Id take whats behind door #1.......:thumbsup:......:kingme:

Donziweasel
08-09-2011, 08:09 AM
Alright guys, enough. Trying to stay positive here. Scott sells paint and if you have ever seen the Pumkin or his Hornet, you know he can shoot paint.

If you have ever seen Georges Minx or Testa, you know he can paint.

Buddy is a painter, he can paint.

Fixx has been painting for years, he can paint.

So, I would like input from everyone and will make the best choice.

If you do not agree with someone, just agree to disagree. Doesn't mean you are right or wrong, you just use a different technique and different paint. You probably get the same results. There are different ways to skin this cat, but it doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. Be respectful of others experience.

I respect all of your advice and hope I get as good as shooting paint as you guys.

Now, I will look and see what type of guns and equip I have.

mattyboy
08-09-2011, 08:43 AM
If I had an 18 project that need cosmetic resto there are a handful of members here who have been down that road on the 18 or other classics, That I would be taking notes from. Eugene N,Scott Pearson,Con. del mar,Gcarter,and olred.

the two 18's that Eugene and Pearson produced are arguibly the nicest two 18's on the planet and the one that C.del mar did was also outstanding. Those 3 are the benchmarks by which any 18 resto can be measured. The projects that Gcarter and olred turn out are by no means second fiddle

Each of the above names works to their strong suit and with products and methods that fit them and their application.


I have seen some of Pearson's work in person and the cars and bikes he has done are works of art. The 2 Donzi's( his and CDMA's 22) that he has painted were imitated by Donzi( the 04 40th anniv) to try and cash in on the stir his boat was causing on it's nationwide event tour in 2001. what is the saying imitation is the highest form a flattery.

hopefully I will be lucky enough to get to see Eugene's work in person one day.


good luck and keep us posted on these 18 projects guys.

cdma's 22 and the 57 chevy pearson worked on

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23852

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44602&d=1238332897

gcarter
08-09-2011, 09:30 AM
FWIW, Eugene's work was done by CP Performance which is not far from him in N. California.
I think Eugene is way too busy to do it himself.
Hes a great idea man though.

mattyboy
08-09-2011, 09:40 AM
sorry thought he did his own work. but the idea man is right, that raised hatch was awesome.

that 18 was gel hull paint deck if i recall correctly

Donziweasel
08-09-2011, 11:51 AM
matty, thanks for the pic of the red Donzi. Gave me an idea...... :)

BUIZILLA
08-09-2011, 11:55 AM
matty, thanks for the pic of the red Donzi. Gave me an idea...... :) you'll notice that the transom is not a solid color... :wink:

Rootsy
08-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Do not forget the safety equipment. Some of this stuff, if absorbed through skin or inhaled can potentially kill you or cause chronic effects down the road.

Be sure to acquire and thoroughly read the MSDS for anything you plan to put through that gun into the air and or mix. Follow all PPE requirements and then some.

roadtrip se
08-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Id take whats behind door #1.......:thumbsup:......:kingme:


Yep, door number one.

Gel trumps all in my book, especially when covering the entire boat. It is going to be better in coverage and durability, especially when you start looking at surfaces that receive traffic like the decks.

Imron is a close second. I have had boats and currently own a boat with Imron on the sides and on graphics treatments. It looks like glass,
but it requires a high level of expertise to spray it and have fun if it gets scratched some how.

Not tearing down anyone's efforts or expertise with paint, but these boats came with gel, I have seen several that have been restored in gel and look awesome, so why not restore the boat with the original finishes, if you can get the colors that you want in gel?

Donziweasel
08-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Jamie, got all the safety equip. I actually have a full breather for painting, it fits over your entire face, has 100 ft of hose and hooked to an electric compressor with filters.

Todd, gel would be great, but it is probably over my head. Let me get a paint job under my belt before I mess with shooting gel. :)

Buddyc
08-09-2011, 01:41 PM
John, any kinds of stripes are easy to achieve. If uou want to add a little suttle flair there are many options. Can be as wild or mild as you like . House of kolor is an amazing company . thier color palate is second to none ... as far as custom goes. I will e mail you some pics of a red metal flake job we did not that lokg ago

mrfixxall
08-09-2011, 04:02 PM
Jamie, got all the safety equip. I actually have a full breather for painting, it fits over your entire face, has 100 ft of hose and hooked to an electric compressor with filters.

Todd, gel would be great, but it is probably over my head. Let me get a paint job under my belt before I mess with shooting gel. :)


Gel is just as easy to spray as paint,,it the sanding afterwords that people are dreading..If you have the patients like me then i would say try to use gel..

mike o
08-09-2011, 04:36 PM
Id take whats behind door #1.......:thumbsup:......:kingme:
My Limb, home sweet home....:kingme:. Gell it all, cept the stripe, so it wont fade (ever) :yes:. Cause when I have my coffee every morning, looking out the window. I know my gell aint bubbling down there. Take her out every 2 week or so, for a wash-ie - wash-ie :wink:. No worries.......:lookaroun: I do have friend with a 2 yr old Mastercraft 190, the bottom looks like bubble wrap. MC says...........:bonk: sorry fella, but "we" dont cover gelcoat under warranty. Who sits next to MC vp at U Tenn football games ?????........:kingme: Oh, Skidoo 05 sdi 600 sdi /19,030 miles....... (good girl).:crossfing:. Ill open the beers...

gcarter
08-09-2011, 05:11 PM
Yep, door number one.

Gel trumps all in my book, especially when covering the entire boat. It is going to be better in coverage and durability, especially when you start looking at surfaces that receive traffic like the decks.

Imron is a close second. I have had boats and currently own a boat with Imron on the sides and on graphics treatments. It looks like glass,
but it requires a high level of expertise to spray it and have fun if it gets scratched some how.

Not tearing down anyone's efforts or expertise with paint, but these boats came with gel, I have seen several that have been restored in gel and look awesome, so why not restore the boat with the original finishes, if you can get the colors that you want in gel?

From someone who's restored a Donzi in gel.......
The last several years of Donzi Classic production was in white gel painted w/BASF Diamont, among other paint brands, but not Imron.

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-09-2011, 06:50 PM
Gel is just as easy to spray as paint,,it the sanding afterwords that people are dreading..If you have the patients like me then i would say try to use gel.. Gel , is very easy (no brainer ) ,and in fact easier then spraying Imron and leaves a hugh space for error . Guy's , when i worked at Skater .....before we started using Imron ........ everything was done in Gel from the 21 , to the 40 , blueprinted bottoms when strakes were added.......to inserts in the mold , to re-Gelling complete hull sides and bottoms from the 21 to the 40 , and when i worked at thompson Boat Co , well over 40 years ago i was spraying Metal flake , which .............i will never do again ,and yes there is a great deal of sanding when working with Gel (steps)that need to be followed while trying to make everything as straight as possible ............from long boarding , ext ext ext to buffing .

Greg Guimond
08-09-2011, 07:33 PM
Gel the hull and hull sides, paint the deck.

Donziweasel
08-09-2011, 07:53 PM
Paint vs gel. I take it the prep work is the same before you shoot each. How much sanding and buffing do you do to gel vs paint when it is done?

superhatz
08-09-2011, 08:10 PM
My head is spinning. I thought I had my mind made up on my project....grrr.

:nilly:

Buddyc
08-09-2011, 08:29 PM
Any chances Gel can blister also?

Greg Guimond
08-09-2011, 08:29 PM
Paint vs gel. I take it the prep work is the same before you shoot each. How much sanding and buffing do you do to gel vs paint when it is done?


A lot more post work for gel.......thus paint the deck. The boys will quantify.

gcarter
08-09-2011, 08:34 PM
Paint vs gel. I take it the prep work is the same before you shoot each. How much sanding and buffing do you do to gel vs paint when it is done?


I've been told that someone really good at shooting gel can start sanding w/800 wet or dry paper. I'm not that good so I start w/400 on a long board. Part of the problem is it sprays like undercoat (very thick) and about 25 mils is needed. Even w/a 2.2 tip, it's pretty slow going.
So, I start w/400/600/800/1000/1200/1500/2000/2500, then buff.
So, on the deck, you'll probably do the bow, then one side of the cockpit, followed by the other side, then the area around the engine hatch. And don't forget the cockpit which is more easily done in sections.
The hull is a lot easier as you can do one side at a time, followed by the transom.

W/paint, you shoot 2-3 coats, and if you do it well, very little finish work is required.

gcarter
08-09-2011, 08:38 PM
Any chances Gel can blister also?

Yes, Google "osmotic blisters", I've fixed a few hundred thousands of those.

h20loo
08-09-2011, 09:07 PM
I gelled the hull of a Mustang and followed a really good thread over at CCfan. It answered all my questions at the time

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12569&KW=&title=gel-coat-prep

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-09-2011, 09:20 PM
Any chances Gel can blister also?Yes.......... i have seen blisters occure on just about every make of boat over.... a period of time , and most of the time ......regardless if the boat has been left in the water or not .....it usally occurs in the bunks ....from the moisture in the carpet on the bunk's ......from getting wet,and sitting on the tralier for long periods of time .

The Hedgehog
08-09-2011, 09:38 PM
You want to shoot gel? are you going to leave it in the water? If so, it will buy you some more time but it will still blister.

I have gel, awlegrip and PPG. It is a matter of what you can shoot.

Or sand if you want to do gel.

Trailered boat? Oh hell I would paint it!

mrfixxall
08-09-2011, 09:42 PM
Yes.......... i have seen blisters occure on just about every make of boat over.... a period of time , and most of the time ......regardless if the boat has been left in the water or not .....it usally occurs in the bunks ....from the moisture in the carpet on the bunk's ......from getting wet,and sitting on the tralier for long periods of time .


+1 OK their we agree on something ;)

The biggest problem with people spraying gel is they spray with to much air pressure and after the first pass and its thick on the second pass they are blowing holes in the gel..Thinned down with patch aid or smoothie and it will spray like paint and you wont need as much air to get it to atomise and flow out..

Buddyc
08-09-2011, 09:51 PM
Yes, Google "osmotic blisters", I've fixed a few hundred thousands of those.
That must be what I was sanding most the afternoon today... looked like bubblewrap all over the cockpit...brutal !

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-10-2011, 05:10 PM
+1 OK their we agree on something ;)

The biggest problem with people spraying gel is they spray with to much air pressure and after the first pass and its thick on the second pass they are blowing holes in the gel..Thinned down with patch aid or smoothie and it will spray like paint and you wont need as much air to get it to atomise and flow out.. There you go guys......... GOD has spoken and to tell you the truth anybody can spray Gel .

mrfixxall
08-10-2011, 05:13 PM
There you go guys......... GOD has spoken and to tell you the truth anybody can spray Gel .


Another +1 we agree again,,Dont forget im watching over you.....

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Another +1 we agree again,,Dont forget im watching over you..... No .....i am watching over you , and the reason being is........ i have been in this business for over 40 plus years now , and your only 46 , Ha Ha Ha ........:wink:LOL

mrfixxall
08-10-2011, 05:21 PM
No .....i am watching over you , and the reason being is i have been in this business for over 40 plus years now , and your only 46 , Ha Ha ........:wink:LOL



Cool and im still learning the new ways but i pretty much got it down pat,,thanx for watching over me..:angel:

handfulz28
08-10-2011, 06:32 PM
In the great spirit of hijacking....

Which is paint, which is gel? 2001 22C. And how do we fix it? A buddy of mine just bought it, but didn't notice this corner.

Donziweasel
08-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Arnie, I respect your experience. Mike has given tons of advice over the years and I trust him as well. Please quit busting his chops. I am trying to learn to paint a boat, not to watch a pissing match on who is the best painter. You are all better than me. There has been enough negativity on here lately and I am trying my best to only post positive things. If you have some input for a newbie learning to paint, please, post away. If you just want to give Mike a hard time, send him a PM. Thanks. :)

Micheal, it is a great thread for paint in general and I do not think your post is a hijack by any means. I would like to hear how to fix it as well. Thanks for the input.

Greg Guimond
08-10-2011, 06:47 PM
That is a pretty big corner to miss.......

hardcrab
08-10-2011, 07:02 PM
I'm guessing red is the gel, since it is under the white

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-10-2011, 07:17 PM
Arnie, I respect your experience. Mike has given tons of advice over the years and I trust him as well. Please quit busting his chops. I am trying to learn to paint a boat, not to watch a pissing match on who is the best painter. You are all better than me. There has been enough negativity on here lately and I am trying my best to only post positive things. If you have some input for a newbie learning to paint, please, post away. If you just want to give Mike a hard time, send him a PM. Thanks. :)

Micheal, it is a great thread for paint in general and I do not think your post is a hijack by any means. I would like to hear how to fix it as well. Thanks for the input. Just curious who is Arnie, and if you are using me as the person you are directing that question to ......nobody seems to be busting anybody's chops or ( balls ) , and if you do not want another opinion ...........so be it......... considering i have posted away .....from spraying paint ......Imron , Awlgrip , Base coat / Clear coat , to Gel ............Thanks , and if you only want to heed one persons opinion why did you start this thread .................other then....... sending Mike a P.M. or better yet just give him a call and ask him yourself ....../on how to do the job . Thanks

superhatz
08-10-2011, 07:54 PM
Ahh...the internet.

:stan:

gcarter
08-10-2011, 08:02 PM
In the great spirit of hijacking....

Which is paint, which is gel? 2001 22C. And how do we fix it? A buddy of mine just bought it, but didn't notice this corner.

I suspect that all that's happened is all the gel came off the corner.
Not a big deal.
Simply carefully fill the various surfaces hull and deck putty (polyester putty) until they're all flush. Sand carefully. Refinish over the new surface.
If you're trying to repair and finish all at once, Minicraft makes tinted patch paste, which is thickened gel. It can be used to accomplish the same thing.
Maybe I'd put a 1708 patch on the inside of the corner.

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-10-2011, 08:13 PM
In the great spirit of hijacking....

Which is paint, which is gel? 2001 22C. And how do we fix it? A buddy of mine just bought it, but didn't notice this corner. Hey guy could you give us a better pic of that conner (close up) because the matt underneath looks dry (white)

Donziweasel
08-10-2011, 08:19 PM
Just curious who is Arnie, and if you are using me as the person you are directing that question to ......nobody seems to be busting anybody's chops or ( balls ) , and if you do not want another opinion ...........so be it......... considering i have posted away .....from spraying paint ......Imron , Awlgrip , Base coat / Clear coat , to Gel ............Thanks , and if you only want to heed one persons opinion why did you start this thread .................other then....... sending Mike a P.M. or better yet just give him a call and ask him yourself ....../on how to do the job . Thanks

I am trying to get input from everyone Artie (typo on the name). Thanks for your input. There are alot of good painters on here and I would like to hear from them all. Just be respectful. Thanks.

roadtrip se
08-10-2011, 10:15 PM
From someone who's restored a Donzi in gel.......
The last several years of Donzi Classic production was in white gel painted w/BASF Diamont, among other paint brands, but not Imron.

My former Fountains and my current Formula had/have Imron paint graphics on them George. Who said anything about Donzi utilizing Imron? I didn't. As for my endorsement of this system? Not there. You should have seen what I went through to repair some scratching in the Imron on the Formula, from a raft off mishap. Paint is soft and high maintenance, period, even in low wear areas like the sides of a boat.

As for my 2001 Classic, there is no paint on it anywhere. I have spot repaired the bottom now, twice, and you couldn't find it if you tried. Try that with paint. I have seen the paint on the current Classics. Donzi did this to cut production costs and time, and the resulting product reflects this. The full gel boats have a more durable and better looking finish, compared to the painted boats, in my opinion, hands down. It is a subjective measure, but the gel boats just have a deeper appearing finish, and the painted boats just look flat.

Go gel DW. If you are going to spend the time and effort to paint, why not just do it in the gel the boat probably came with any way?

Greg Guimond
08-11-2011, 06:46 AM
Agree with Road and why I say gel the hull and hullsides DW. Will take the abuse better that will surely happen, even with care. You can save time and a lot of effort by painting the top sides given you are doing the work yourself.

mike o
08-11-2011, 07:45 AM
Gel on gel and a round fractured hole in the bottom.....:lifeprese:

handfulz28
08-11-2011, 09:41 AM
Thanks DW for letting me tag onto your thread! :D


Gel on gel and a round fractured hole in the bottom.....:lifeprese:

Yeah, I see gel on gel also, so which was the primary? How'd they do that? That hole on the bottom is gonna suck if it cracked the glass.

I'll try and take some better pics to share. He got a good price on the package so a little repair should be no big deal. Problem is neither of us are skilled at gel/fiberglass/body repair. Gotta learn sometime I suppose...

Ya' know DW, I think everybody is right on here within each specific context. Paint is great (probably no matter which one you use) because it should go on easy, tons of colors, if you prep and spray well there will be less finish effort. Until it gets scratched. And it won't be as durable if it stays in the water too long. Gel on the other hand, a little more effort to spray, a lot more effort to finish, but "when" it gets scratched (because it always does), it should be a breeze to fix.

So break it down by which is the priority:
Initial material cost
Time/effort of initial application
Time/effort of maintenance and repair
Durability for a given use

I'm also tagging on here because I'll need to figure out the same thing for my Hornet. I always figured I'd do white gel top to bottom with painted stripes.

Donziweasel
08-11-2011, 09:53 AM
I am leaning to having Mike and Buddy come here this winter for a ski and snowmobile trip, have them do the boat, and me and David will drink beer and watch. David, you have to buy the beer! :)

Alot of decisions. I would rather have gel, but the boat will spend most of its time on a trailer. I am also not a fan of prep or finish work. On the other hand, a more durable finish in gel is a huge plus. I wouldn't mind learning to shoot it. Right now I can go either way.

Buddyc
08-11-2011, 10:21 AM
I have spent all week trying to get the cockpit of my 18 just ready for primer and im a long way off. I couldnt imaging having to wet sand it all and rub it. With all the curves and tight spaces most would have to be dont by hand, again and again! Im just too friggin lazy... I admit it!
Its Paint for me. I dont see how any scratch cant be fixed with paint? Cars Get scratches too... I have been painting cars and worked in my dads Body shop since I was 14. Like everything else, If the prep is right then the blend will work. No worries.
Ps. George, My hats off to you for putting the time and much effort in doing the Testa... Just too much work for me for a boat that will be on a trailer most of the time

gcarter
08-11-2011, 10:23 AM
Gel is pretty easy to spray....get a good gravity feed gun w/a BIG tip.....Spray LOTS of it on, probably 25 mils. It takes quite a bit of gel to cover the boat, several gallons @ quite a bit per gallon.
The hard part comes later.

Paint, OTOH, will require probably only 1/2 gallon, and cost only about $250-$300.00. You'll spray maybe two-three coats @ about 6 mils thick.
The paint requires very little finish work, if any. And the paint I reccomended is very easily repairable. I can't speak about the repairability of the others.

mike o
08-11-2011, 12:37 PM
Thanks DW for letting me tag onto your thread! :D



Yeah, I see gel on gel also, so which was the primary? How'd they do that? That hole on the bottom is gonna suck if it cracked the glass.

I'll try and take some better pics to share. He got a good price on the package so a little repair should be no big deal. Problem is neither of us are skilled at gel/fiberglass/body repair. Gotta learn sometime I suppose...

Ya' know DW, I think everybody is right on here within each specific context. Paint is great (probably no matter which one you use) because it should go on easy, tons of colors, if you prep and spray well there will be less finish effort. Until it gets scratched. And it won't be as durable if it stays in the water too long. Gel on the other hand, a little more effort to spray, a lot more effort to finish, but "when" it gets scratched (because it always does), it should be a breeze to fix.

So break it down by which is the priority:
Initial material cost
Time/effort of initial application
Time/effort of maintenance and repair
Durability for a given use

I'm also tagging on here because I'll need to figure out the same thing for my Hornet. I always figured I'd do white gel top to bottom with painted stripes.Masked off the red part of the hull and sprayed the white. Then pulled of the mask and sprayed the red. Thats why you see the red gel behind the white in the damage. The red was sprayed in 2nd, on top of the white, after the white kicked off........:cool:

Donziweasel
08-11-2011, 06:07 PM
Buddy, do you have any recent pics of the prep work?

Buddyc
08-11-2011, 06:34 PM
I could show you pics of my boat that im working on but it is a mess. She should have been called the red whore instead of Mistress...lol Rode hard and put away wet.
As long as the 18 you get isnt a pig then the prepwork shouldnt be too extensive. Basically sanding and minor glass work. Im using an epoxy primer and guide coat it before it gets sanded before paint. Im sure the experts will say im doing something wrong, But that is what im doing to mine

Donziweasel
08-11-2011, 07:54 PM
Buddy, one thing I have gotten from this thread is there are many different ways to skin this cat with equally good results. I have had 5 to 8 different paint/gel suggestions, 5 different ways to prep the boat including which sand paper to use, tack towels, etc..... and a bunch more on how to shoot, and how to finish. They have all bee great suggestions and direction, I appreciate all the input.

I wouldn't say your are doing it wrong at all, say you are doing it the way you want to. I am sure it will look great when the Mistress/Whore is done....... :)

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-11-2011, 09:05 PM
I am leaning to having Mike and Buddy come here this winter for a ski and snowmobile trip, have them do the boat, and me and David will drink beer and watch. David, you have to buy the beer! :)

Alot of decisions. I would rather have gel, but the boat will spend most of its time on a trailer. I am also not a fan of prep or finish work. On the other hand, a more durable finish in gel is a huge plus. I wouldn't mind learning to shoot it. Right now I can go either way. And with that in mind this thread so .......to speak was a waste of everyones time considering ............you already had a game plan in mind , and you where just toying with everybody .....for ideas .....considering your plans are pretty concrete ...................WOW !

fogducker III
08-11-2011, 09:23 PM
And with that in mind this thread so .......to speak was a waste of everyones time considering ............you already had a game plan in mind , and you where just toying with everybody .....for ideas .....considering your plans are pretty concrete ...................WOW !

I had to come out of my hiding to respond......two reasons, one is to let you know this type of thread is why I didn't want to post any more, not the subject but the responses, second, ginger, your a fuching a$shole and the sad part about it, you probably know that you are.......:(

You are the type of guy that has ONE friend, and that is your mother.......no need to respond, I am back in hiding......:lookaroun:

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-11-2011, 09:35 PM
I had to come out of my hiding to respond......two reasons, one is to let you know this type of thread is why I didn't want to post any more, not the subject but the responses, second, ginger, your a fuching a$shole and the sad part about it, you probably know that you are.......:(

You are the type of guy that has ONE friend, and that is your mother.......no need to respond, I am back in hiding......:lookaroun: HA HA HA , if thats what it took for you to come out of hiding ......so be it , and just curious .....why do you feel the need to bring my mother into this and did you get my E-MAIL - HA HA HA HA .........you piece of work .....

Buddyc
08-11-2011, 10:30 PM
No problem DW, and your right about the skinned cats. It basically comes down to having a nice smooth,sanded, clean surface to either paint or gel on. I have never sprayed gel but with an imron top coat I will final sand before paint with 360 or if I'm feeling ambitious 600 ;) ...I'm sure that's overkill but it leaves a nice smooth surface to lay it down...
... Ginger, I don't understand the need for the confrontation! Really? Whats the point?

yeller
08-11-2011, 11:06 PM
Not a waste of my time. Some really good info here. Lots of different ideas. I'm stockpiling info because eventually I want to tackle painting my deck stripe and logo.

Gel vs Paint; good debate. Gel has some great merits, but I just couldn't imagine having to do all that sanding. Hats off to those that do. :yes:

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-12-2011, 12:49 AM
No problem DW, and your right about the skinned cats. It basically comes down to having a nice smooth,sanded, clean surface to either paint or gel on. I have never sprayed gel but with an imron top coat I will final sand before paint with 360 or if I'm feeling ambitious 600 ;) ...I'm sure that's overkill but it leaves a nice smooth surface to lay it down...
... Ginger, I don't understand the need for the confrontation! Really? Whats the point?Buddy , YOU ARE RIGHT BUT ,this guy comes out of hideing .........just to make a statment !

mrfixxall
08-12-2011, 02:01 AM
:screwy:
Buddy , YOU ARE RIGHT BUT ,this guy comes out of hideing .........just to make a statment !
:screwy:

Greg Guimond
08-12-2011, 06:00 AM
If you gel the hull and hullsides only at least the surfaces are a lot easy to sand then the c_ckpit and some those complex curves. That said, as I think about it, depending on the colors you are going with you might get into a color match issue if you switch to paint on the deck from gel?

OFFSHORE GINGER
08-12-2011, 06:55 AM
If you gel the hull and hullsides only at least the surfaces are a lot easy to sand then the c_ckpit and some those complex curves. That said, as I think about it, depending on the colors you are going with you might get into a color match issue if you switch to paint on the deck from gel? Greg i got your message (PM) did you get mine ! ha ha ha ha very interesting.....................:yes:

Greg Guimond
08-12-2011, 07:21 AM
I will be painting the whole boat, interior, hull, etc..... I have the tools, shop, etc..... I think this is going to be a really cool project.

I like the solid colors with white stripes and pure white interiors from the 60's and early 70's. I also liked the white steering wheel, morse shifter etc..... You can see where I am going with this. Take a mid to late 90's 18 and go retro with it. I have a color already picked out.


DW, what is the color combo you have in mind?

Donziweasel
08-12-2011, 08:10 AM
And with that in mind this thread so .......to speak was a waste of everyones time considering ............you already had a game plan in mind , and you where just toying with everybody .....for ideas .....considering your plans are pretty concrete ...................WOW !

I am sorry you feel that way Artie. My post was actually a joke. I have no plans as of yet. Thank you again for your input.


No problem DW, and your right about the skinned cats. It basically comes down to having a nice smooth,sanded, clean surface to either paint or gel on. I have never sprayed gel but with an imron top coat I will final sand before paint with 360 or if I'm feeling ambitious 600 ...I'm sure that's overkill but it leaves a nice smooth surface to lay it down...


Sounds good to me as a newbie. Can't wait to see the final result.

I was not sure I could do this when this thread started. Me and paint have never gotten along too well. I love to restore old cars and trucks, but I have always contracted out the painting. Now I am actually looking foward to it. I am hoping I can hone my skills on the boat and then possible tackle some automotive stuff. Everyone, your advice has been invaluable. Thanks...... :)

Buddyc
08-12-2011, 10:11 AM
I was not sure I could do this when this thread started. Me and paint have never gotten along too well. I love to restore old cars and trucks, but I have always contracted out the painting. Now I am actually looking foward to it. I am hoping I can hone my skills on the boat and then possible tackle some automotive stuff. Everyone, your advice has been invaluable. Thanks...... :)
After the boat is done you will surely be able to do any automotive stuff. Basecoat / Clearcoat is a breeze. Most Basecoats dry fast so if there are any issues ( like a fly doing the backstroke in your paint) they can be easily sanded out before the Clearcoat is applied.
@Greg, I would wonder the same thing about the hull and deck matching in color and sheen. It may be tuff to have the best of both worlds in this instance...

hardcrab
08-12-2011, 11:54 AM
DW has a point, this thread has really been a meeting of the minds

For the most part it is constructive insight to various methods of different perspective and experience

- ignore the turd in the punchbowl-

jvcobra
05-17-2012, 02:49 PM
Sorry for digging up an old thread but there was some good info in the beginning. I want to paint over some exiting graphics that are done in gel on my hull. I only want to change the color from the Miami vice pink and teal to a red and blue. Based on this thread I want to use the BASF UNO HD single stage system however will I need to primer over the exiting gel before I paint. There will be no repairs needed for scratches/gouges I just want to change the color. If so would the duratec primers be what I am looking for?

Thanks!

yembo77
09-25-2012, 01:00 PM
Buddyc,

That awlgrip you brushed... that deck came out like that, in a single stage, with no scuff and buff????

What kind of black magic IS THAT????

But after reading the care instructions on their website, it says you have to avoid canvas from sitting on it wet, even mooring lines. So then, how long before it starts to chalk? And if you can't buff it, then how do you restore the shine? Can I use a tonneau or mooring cover on top of awlgrip without worrying or is it garage only?


-Matt

taylor23
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
For great looking paint on any kind of boat there is need of choice the light paint and use spray gun to paint on boat. As spray paint looks very shining as compared to brush painting.

gcarter
02-05-2013, 01:38 PM
LOL!
I just re-read some of this, and frankly, it's pretty comical how folks get upset w/Offshore Ginger.....
I have him on my ignore list and completely miss the idiotic things he responds with.