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View Full Version : 2006 22C always list toward port side



Namstradamus
07-20-2011, 12:56 AM
I have a 2006 22C w/ a 496 mag h.o. completely stock. For some reason everytime I get on the plane the boat likes to list towards the port side no matter what (even if weight is evenly distributed amongst passengers) and has to be adjusted with the port trimtab... It's no big deal but just wandering if this is normal or a problem w/ the prop, outdrive, trimtabs etc.... Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Marvair
07-20-2011, 06:58 AM
I've never had that experience with the ride however, prop size..3 or 4 blade, makes a huge impact. What's your setup.

Tidbart
07-20-2011, 07:34 AM
Any bends or damage to the drives skeg?

B

pipnit
07-20-2011, 08:48 AM
My 2+3 has a natural tendency to list to the port. My solution is to have the weight towards the starboard side. It also seems to be less at higher speeds and when the drive is trimmed.

Damaged Skeg? Interesting! My TRS Skeg was probably 2-3" short due to the P.O. and I never fixed it until this year. Do you think I'm going to see a big difference in how the boat handles?

MOP
07-20-2011, 09:32 AM
100% normal you are running a right rotation prop which lifts the starboard side, in my 22 when I run alone I need no tab but with a passenger I always need a tad of tab. On the older Volvo setups they ran left hand props with a left hand helm, later boats are just the opposite. Dou Prop is the only single screw that will run flat side to side, right or left will always lean away from the rotation.

Carl C
07-20-2011, 09:58 AM
It's normal! Part of my routine before planing out is to drop the port tab for 5 seconds (dual ram). Drive goes all the way down. This planes me out level. As the drive goes up I raise the tab some to keep the boat level. On WOT runs with positive trim I can raise the tab completely but must lower it as I lower the drive when slowing down. If I have a large front passenger I have to run some tab always; A light passenger is no problem.

Namstradamus
07-21-2011, 12:48 AM
I've never had that experience with the ride however, prop size..3 or 4 blade, makes a huge impact. What's your setup.

In addition to the motor above, I have a bravo 1x with a Mirage plus 48-13706 3 blade 25 pitch.

Namstradamus
07-21-2011, 12:53 AM
Thanks MOP and Carl C. Your comments make me feel much better that it's normal! As you know when something is wrong that's just more money down the pit!

Best Regards

undertaker
07-21-2011, 09:18 AM
Try a different prop like a Turbo TXP (3blade) or Bravo (4blade) on your boat might help a bit with the listing....the 25P mirage on my 05 496 HO 22 was horrible....I run a labbed bravo prop on my boat most of the time but the fastest prop on my setup is the Turbo TXP which I run when needed:), and use very little port tab at all with both props.....just a thought props make a huge difference on the 22 classics....

Undertaker:)

RockyS18
07-21-2011, 11:20 AM
I had that problem too when I first got my 22. My assumption was some torque-steer. I switched to a Bravo four-blade prop which reduced the problem to only a very slight left tilt where I can fix it with a little tab down on the left side. The Bravo prop also reduced some of the porpoising at low speeds and allowed me to use slightly less tab.

And I agree undertaker, the 25p Mirage was horrible.

undertaker
07-21-2011, 11:30 AM
I had that problem too when I first got my 22. My assumption was some torque-steer. I switched to a Bravo four-blade prop which reduced the problem to only a very slight left tilt where I can fix it with a little tab down on the left side. The Bravo prop also reduced some of the porpoising at low speeds and allowed me to use slightly less tab.

And I agree undertaker, the 25p Mirage was horrible.


Rocky are you planning on making the fall picnic @ Lake George? Saw you on the lake at the spring dustoff and would love to take a look your boat, it looks awesome.....

Undertaker

RockyS18
07-21-2011, 12:52 PM
Rocky are you planning on making the fall picnic @ Lake George? Saw you on the lake at the spring dustoff and would love to take a look your boat, it looks awesome.....

Undertaker

Thanks, and yes I'll be there.

undertaker
07-21-2011, 01:01 PM
Cool see you then..:yes::yes:

RickSE
07-21-2011, 02:06 PM
...the 25p Mirage was horrible.

I still love my lab-finished Mirage+ 25P; no other prop can carry my bow and the boat through the rough stuff like the Mirage+. Yes it has some qwerks like prop torque but once you get on plane and trim up the torque goes away.

mphatc
07-21-2011, 03:40 PM
Change your prop!!! My boat did the same to the extent that I needed to constantly correct when running in waves and the boat was terrible!

I didn't realize how bad until I switched to a Hydromotive Quad IV . . the ride is totally different, no more leaning and or coarse corrections.

This is on a Corsican with a Bravo.

Mario L.

joseph m. hahnl
07-21-2011, 03:51 PM
Sometimes. a little steer in the other direction will level mine. Although my Minx does it very rarely, I'm thinking that the trim tab on the out drive maybe able to correct some of it. At the moment I have a TH marine anti porpoising pad on. I haven't noticed it at all with that on. Passenger weight is definitely a factor, but when it's just me and my girl, and she only ways 98 lbs it tracks pretty level.



http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!B80(DGQCWk~$(KGrHqR,!mEEy+jC)91gBM4E!gzb(Q~~0_1.J PG


http://www.anything4boats.com/Data1/808144I-6.jpg

RockyS18
07-21-2011, 03:51 PM
I still love my lab-finished Mirage+ 25P; no other prop can carry my bow and the boat through the rough stuff like the Mirage+. Yes it has some qwerks like prop torque but once you get on plane and trim up the torque goes away.

Don't get me wrong, it is a great prop for speed (Mine went 80mph stock but only does about 75 with the Bravo 4 blade now) but just in my opinion I didn't like it. These are very prop sensitive boats so Namstradamus you should try out a few props to see what you like the best.

RickSE
07-21-2011, 04:28 PM
My boat is a different animal then most and just doesn't like the 4-blade props. All the Hydro's & Bravo's I've tried behaved no better then the Mirage+ and glued the nose of the boat down way too much for my tastes. I boat on a large lake that can get extremely rough and not having the ability to lift and carry the bow over the waves is a big negative. Everyone drives and boats differently; I just wanted to state that not everyone hates the Mirage+.

Namstradamus
07-21-2011, 10:15 PM
These are very prop sensitive boats so Namstradamus you should try out a few props to see what you like the best.

What props and pitch do you suggest for top end?
Ballistic?
Turbo Prop TXP?

What props and pich do you suggest for handling/planning/less trim tab w/ reduced top end?
Bravo?

I heard the Mirage+ 27P runs well on my 22c setup. Anyone have any expierience with that prop?

undertaker
07-22-2011, 10:22 AM
What props and pitch do you suggest for top end?
Ballistic?
Turbo Prop TXP?

What props and pich do you suggest for handling/planning/less trim tab w/ reduced top end?
Bravo?

I heard the Mirage+ 27P runs well on my 22c setup. Anyone have any expierience with that prop?


Best top end prop on my boat is a stock 26P TXP

Best handling prop on my boat so far (getting a Hydromotive QIV to try) is a 26P labbed Bravo with some cup added for that bow lift we all want.

I have the same results as Rocky lost about 4-5 mph with the bravo but handles great.....

Best advice try a bunch of different prop types and pitches if you find one you like you can always have it labbed and tweaked to get you that little extra out of it (handling, top end etc.)...

Will let you know how the Hydromotive prop works on my boat once I get it...:kingme:

undertaker
07-22-2011, 10:34 AM
Oh one more thing....what I have learned over the last six years of seat time and attending many, many events over that six years in my 22 is every boat is different there is no hardcore answer its all about doing your own testing with your boat and driving habits and figuring out what works best for your ride....

That being said the newer hulls (2004 to present) seem to behave much different that the older hulls (1993-2002) so try to talk to guys with your similiar set ups (hull year, horsepower, drive set up etc) and it will give you a baseline to start with.

I have some friends with the older hulls and different setups and they don't really understand what us newer hull guys are dealing with on our boats BUT always great to talk with everyone you can never get enough information and thoughts on these boats IMO.

Have fun....:)

Greg Guimond
07-22-2011, 10:39 AM
I have some data that might help you. My hull is not a 22 Classic, but has many similiar characteristics. It is a 23 footer with a super narrow beam at 6'6". It also is a true 24 degree V right to the transom, which is rare. I found my Hydromotive QIV to be a significant change from the Mirage Plus. I actually bought the QIV initially to run on my Donzi 16 but found that it was not suited and ultimately went to a Turbo Fusion for that particular hull. The QIV actually lifts the entire hull out of the water AND carries the bow. It requires less tab to balance the hull then anything I have tried so far and my hull being a super narrow beam is very tab sensitive. The Mirage Plus carries the bow but not as well given it does not have the same total hull lift as the QIV. I would also say that the QIV gives you more to work with in rough water. It handles better in ocean conditions and can deal with 3-4 foot mixed chop better then the Mirage Plus and at a lower speed. I like them both, but tend to think the Mirage Plus might be better in calmer waters and the QIV a better all around rough water prop. Hope this helps you.

undertaker
07-22-2011, 11:02 AM
I have some data that might help you. My hull is not a 22 Classic, but has many similiar characteristics. It is a 23 footer with a super narrow beam at 6'6". It also is a true 24 degree V right to the transom, which is rare. I found my Hydromotive QIV to be a significant change from the Mirage Plus. I actually bought the QIV initially to run on my Donzi 16 but found that it was not suited and ultimately went to a Turbo Fusion for that particular hull. The QIV actually lifts the entire hull out of the water AND carries the bow. It requires less tab to balance the hull then anything I have tried so far and my hull being a super narrow beam is very tab sensitive. The Mirage Plus carries the bow but not as well given it does not have the same total hull lift as the QIV. I would also say that the QIV gives you more to work with in rough water. It handles better in ocean conditions and can deal with 3-4 foot mixed chop better then the Mirage Plus and at a lower speed. I like them both, but tend to think the Mirage Plus might be better in calmer waters and the QIV a better all around rough water prop. Hope this helps you.


Good info.....hoping the QIV does the same "lift entire hull thing" on my boat....testing and results to follow:shades:

Greg Guimond
07-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Nothing replaces testing to your point but I was very surprised at how much the QIV lifted the whole hull, stern and bow. I've gone through a lot of props over the year and this was a first. It felt like it was 6"-12" higher out of the water then the Mirage Plus.

RockyS18
07-22-2011, 12:19 PM
I knew something seemed wrong, so I went and took a look at my old prop and actually it is a 27p mirage, not a 25p. With everyone saying 25p I just sort of forgot mine was a 27p. Sorry forget what I said about the 25p, everything there is about the 27p.


What props and pitch do you suggest for top end?
Ballistic?
Turbo Prop TXP?

What props and pich do you suggest for handling/planning/less trim tab w/ reduced top end?
Bravo?

I heard the Mirage+ 27P runs well on my 22c setup. Anyone have any expierience with that prop?

I have only ran two props so far, and one was that Mirage 27p. I would not try it, as it gives a lot torque-steer. Even with a lot of tab, it is always tilting left. Also, to stop it from porpoising it requires a lot of tab which slows down the boat a bit. The upside is a high top speed.

The Bravo 4 blade reduces your top speed (mine was reduced by 5 mph) however handles excellent, and you can use less trim tab. There is minimal torque-steer.

Undertaker, let me know how the QIV is once you get it.

undertaker
07-22-2011, 12:51 PM
I knew something seemed wrong, so I went and took a look at my old prop and actually it is a 27p mirage, not a 25p. With everyone saying 25p I just sort of forgot mine was a 27p. Sorry forget what I said about the 25p, everything there is about the 27p.



I have only ran two props so far, and one was that Mirage 27p. I would not try it, as it gives a lot torque-steer. Even with a lot of tab, it is always tilting left. Also, to stop it from porpoising it requires a lot of tab which slows down the boat a bit. The upside is a high top speed.

The Bravo 4 blade reduces your top speed (mine was reduced by 5 mph) however handles excellent, and you can use less trim tab. There is minimal torque-steer.

Undertaker, let me know how the QIV is once you get it.


Rocky no problem will do should have it in my hands next week sometime.....:)

blackhawk
07-22-2011, 02:40 PM
My boat is a different animal then most and just doesn't like the 4-blade props. All the Hydro's & Bravo's I've tried behaved no better then the Mirage+ and glued the nose of the boat down way too much for my tastes. I boat on a large lake that can get extremely rough and not having the ability to lift and carry the bow over the waves is a big negative. Everyone drives and boats differently; I just wanted to state that not everyone hates the Mirage+.

+1

Although my boat isn't a Donzi it is similar in size to a 22C. I hated the QIV and stock Bravo on my boat. QIV had no bow lift and I had to trim it to the moon to get the boat loose, and still rode too flat. Bravo took a lot of trim also and if you trimmed too much it would launch the bow. The "sweet spot" was VERY narrow. I did try a BBlades Bravo labbed for bow lift and it was much better. Rev4 is still the best 4blade I have tried hands down.

My boat has a lean to port also and some props are better than others. But IMO this is one of the last prop characteristics I am concerned with. When cruising I just leave the port tab down a hair further.

RickSE
07-22-2011, 03:15 PM
Rocky, Are you interested in selling your 27P Mirage+? I need a low altitude prop.

RockyS18
07-23-2011, 07:39 PM
I am going to put it back on for one more try, and if it doesn't work out, then yes I would be willing to sell it.

JustMercMe
07-26-2011, 09:03 AM
I've been running the 27 Mirage Plus for my top end and for days with peeps in the boat or long trips a 28 Bravo One.

The 28 Bravo One seems to carry the weight better and act a lot smoother on the way on and off plane than the 3 blade Mirage. The mid range cruising rpm is lower at the same speed also(gas mileage).....

The 27 Mirage is loose and takes some time to get used too but when you do......"Loose is fast and on the edge of out of control!" :wink:

Carl C
07-26-2011, 10:16 AM
It sounds like I need to try a 29p Mirage+ if there is 5 mph to be gained. I run a 30p BBlades Bravo 1 now. The boat does handle great with it; Especially in the rough.

fysis
07-26-2011, 03:54 PM
It sounds like I need to try a 29p Mirage+ if there is 5 mph to be gained. I run a 30p BBlades Bravo 1 now. The boat does handle great with it; Especially in the rough.
Carl. How does a 22 classic behave with a LH prop. Interested since i have access to a lot of them

Namstradamus
07-27-2011, 12:00 AM
I've been running the 27 Mirage Plus for my top end and for days with peeps in the boat or long trips a 28 Bravo One.

The 28 Bravo One seems to carry the weight better and act a lot smoother on the way on and off plane than the 3 blade Mirage. The mid range cruising rpm is lower at the same speed also(gas mileage).....

The 27 Mirage is loose and takes some time to get used too but when you do......"Loose is fast and on the edge of out of control!" :wink:


What is your top end/RPMS @WOT on the 27 mirage+ and 28 Bravo One?

Carl C
07-27-2011, 10:37 AM
Carl. How does a 22 classic behave with a LH prop. Interested since i have access to a lot of them

I don't know but I think it would handle poorly.

yeller
07-27-2011, 04:22 PM
Carl. How does a 22 classic behave with a LH prop. Interested since i have access to a lot of themIf you have access, then try it. You've got nothing to lose. I've always wanted to try a lefty on mine, but didn't want to buy one just to quench my curiosity.

blackhawk
07-27-2011, 05:46 PM
It sounds like I need to try a 29p Mirage+ if there is 5 mph to be gained. I run a 30p BBlades Bravo 1 now. The boat does handle great with it; Especially in the rough.

A 3 blade is faster than a 4 blade 9 out of 10 times. But, the BBlades Bravo is a hell of a prop. I ran a Bblades M+ 27 and B1 28 back to back and they were within 1 mph of each other, with the B1 having slightly lower rpms.

Carl C
07-27-2011, 08:53 PM
A 3 blade is faster than a 4 blade 9 out of 10 times. But, the BBlades Bravo is a hell of a prop. I ran a Bblades M+ 27 and B1 28 back to back and they were within 1 mph of each other, with the B1 having slightly lower rpms.

OK, I guess all of the boats are different because some have reported no speed difference, you say 1 mph diff but others say 5 mph. Now 5 mph is a lot!

Greg Guimond
07-27-2011, 09:21 PM
Agree with that Carl, all hulls are a bit different. I guess a small variation in hull blueprint can end up as several mph.