Moderation in the for sale section

[Donziweasel]

It has come to my attention that the individual that has created some controversy in the for sale section has officially retired from selling Donzi's. It seems in the last year that all the issues in this part of the forum tended to be around his boats for sale or boats he had sold. Since he is no longer actively partaking in the purchasing, brokering and selling of Donzis, I would like to open up this forum to non-moderating posting again.

Waiting up to a week for posts to be approved is not efficient for sellers or purchasers with questions alike. For many, this is one of our favorite sections and waiting a week to get information or see Donzi's for sale is tiresome at best. Many Donzi's posted here are also for sale on other medias and we, the Donzi community, may miss opportunities because of the delay in posting.

Perhaps the current ownership of the board could make a member who frequents this board daily a moderator of this section if they are not comfortable with open posting so that daily posts can be checked to be in compliance with the forum rules.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL AND I WOULD APPRECIATE WE DO NOT DISCUSS PAST ENDEAVOURS OF HIS SALES! I am not looking to bash anyone and do not want this to end up being an attack on anyone. What has happened happened and it is time to move on.

[Ed Donnelly]

Here, Here, ....................Ed

[VetteLT193]

I didn't even know we have moderators:bonk:

[Buddyc]

Great point Weasel ...

[axelkloehn]

I posted a reply to Jims thread about trading his critter 5 days ago- it is still not showing in the thread... guess there are some serious problems behind that delay, but for sure improvements concerning that delay would be good

[Tidbart]

With all due respect, this was not entirely brought on because of one person. There has always been a history of bashing and negative commenting on other's boats for sale which should not have been occurring.

If an ad is posted with contact information, anyone can use it. The exchange of information does not have to be done by posting. Phone, email, PMs all work. Remember, these are just ads similar to ones in your local newspaper, not forums to discuss what is for for sale.

If someone buys or doesn't buy a boat based on what is posted on a website somewhere, they are either going to either get screwed or miss out on a good buy.

DD has to be done, or not, at your own peril. Caveat Emptor.

I kind of like the simplicity of it the way it is now.

Just my thoughts.:) Bob

[Donziweasel]

With all due respect, this was not entirely brought on because of one person. There has always been a history of bashing and negative commenting on other's boats for sale which should not have been occurring.

Bob, I generally agree with you on about everything, but for the past year the only ads having issues were by a certain individual.

There is also a history of bashing and negative commenting on all parts of this forum. It's what happens when you get 10,000 members with different personalities together, we are not all going to get along all the time.

As I said, these same ads could be on CL, Ebay, Boattrader, etc.... When you are looking for a Donzi, a Donzi forum is a good place to start. Plus, many of us know other members boats pretty well. By the time something pops up here, it could already be sold.

So, it could take a week or more for your ad to be approved, then another week for someone who has a question about your boat to get it posted, then another week to get an answer. Three weeks for a simple question. This is simply not an efficient way to do business or to purchase anything. If a potential buyer gets an answer after 3 weeks, and he has another question, then another two weeks. Now you have 5 weeks from initial posting to answer two simple questions. This isn't right. If the boat is listed elsewhere, it has most likely been sold and you lose.

[hardcrab]

I didn't even know we have moderators:bonk:

just try posting political humor ..... you'll find ALL the wannabe moderators

[Greg Guimond]

I vote for less delay........:yes:

[Tidbart]

Bob, I generally agree with you on about everything, but for the past year the only ads having issues were by a certain individual.

There is also a history of bashing and negative commenting on all parts of this forum. It's what happens when you get 10,000 members with different personalities together, we are not all going to get along all the time.

As I said, these same ads could be on CL, Ebay, Boattrader, etc.... When you are looking for a Donzi, a Donzi forum is a good place to start. Plus, many of us know other members boats pretty well. By the time something pops up here, it could already be sold.

So, it could take a week or more for your ad to be approved, then another week for someone who has a question about your boat to get it posted, then another week to get an answer. Three weeks for a simple question. This is simply not an efficient way to do business or to purchase anything. If a potential buyer gets an answer after 3 weeks, and he has another question, then another two weeks. Now you have 5 weeks from initial posting to answer two simple questions. This isn't right. If the boat is listed elsewhere, it has most likely been sold and you lose.

Maybe I misunderstood the whole question. I was under the impression that the ads were allowed to be placed but the replies/responses were being delayed. So, I would agree about the ads. My response was towards the responses, which aren't necessarily needed.

The comments are and have been all over the forums and is the intention of the forum. The difference that I see is that the Classified section is not a forum but just a place to put ads. This is why I have made the comments that I have.

B

[VetteLT193]

I like the comments to the ads... as a seller, buyer, and innocent onlooker.

Generally ads are not too clear and the more people that ask questions the more the chances are for a clear and honest transaction. Stuff that the buyer and the seller wouldn't have thought of could come up if a public discussion happens over a boat. It's kinda like bringing a group of friends to come look at a boat. Everyone is going to think of and see something a bit differently and have a different way of describing and asking things.

Now the flat out bashing I don't agree with.

[Donziweasel]

Maybe I misunderstood the whole question. I was under the impression that the ads were allowed to be placed but the replies/responses were being delayed.

Bob, right now, everything is delayed, including new ads.


I like the comments to the ads... as a seller, buyer, and innocent onlooker.

Same here. I have probably learned more about Donzis in the for sale section than anywhere. Years, ownership, engine/drive combos, HIN numbers, models, years, etc.... You can pick up a hell of alot of info in the For Sale Section.

Plus, I have always made positive comments on boats I like.


Now the flat out bashing I don't agree with.

Agreed, and I have tried to stay away from negatively commenting on a For Sale Ad. I have on a couple of occasions, one, was in regards to the gentleman who is no longer selling Donzis, and too be honest, I wish I had stayed out of it. Second was a scam I once got into it about. One I should have stayed out of and the second I was right to alert people to the scam. Niether were this year or recent.

[MOP]

Less delay with one of the moderators checking in once a day to delete unwanted posts at their sole digression.

Phil

[gcarter]

There's been a couple of times I've been, maybe, a bit demanding when someone might post an '87 C-18 for sale w/one distant picture, a one paragraph description, and a price of $20K........

I figure the poster is clueless of the real value, or he thinks us fools, or, if it's really worth that price, proove it to us.

So,was it rude of me to do that? Or, was it a service to the seller?

I remember when Todd fulfilled that roll, he would do similar things.

[BUIZILLA]

I don't think ANYBODY should rebuke a sellers ad on price UNLESS the seller asks for a fair market price.... I also think a few here are shortchanging the market by lowballing every thing that comes up for sale.... it's no secret at all that if you want fair market price for a Donzi you don't sell it here, and that has been proven time and again

[gcarter]

I don't think ANYBODY should rebuke a sellers ad on price UNLESS the seller asks for a fair market price.... I also think a few here are shortchanging the market by lowballing every thing that comes up for sale.... it's no secret at all that if you want fair market price for a Donzi you don't sell it here, and that has been proven time and again

I guess you're right Jim, it's not my resposibility to comment on sellers posts.
As far as the rest, an exceptional boat demands a premium and will (should) be sold at a clearly higher price than the market in general. The question is, how many exceptional boats are there?
I think it's interesting that the person of interest (or disinterest) of this thread had a real, maybe truly exceptional, talent for selling boats on line. Unfortunately, many of them had issues that were entirely glossed over and/or not addressed in the ads.
Maybe something that's missing in the used performance boat
marketing world is a grading system that's easily understood like the publishers of "Sports Car market" or "Motorcycle Classics" have developed, i.e., the condition of the vihicle is defined by numbers from 1 to 5 or 6, and each of those are clearly difined as to what they mean. For instance, a number 1 is in a museum or private collection, is better than new, and is never used. A number 2 may look like a number 1 from 10' away, but it's used occasionally. A number 3 is an OK vehicle that looks good from 20' away, that's used frequently, and everything works.
And the last number is a parts collection that's not rebuildable.
The point is, most folks want to ask a number 1 price for their number 4 Corvette or Triumph Bonneville they have for sale.
I suppose the truth is, it's hard to prove on line in a forum like this that IT IS a number 1.
Now, back to the current market prices of Donzi's in general, while it may have risen, and I'll admit, I don't follow it, I don't think the number of above average 15 year old to 25 year old Donzi's has increased. I think, due to the economic circumstances, there are FEWER good boats available becaus many folks are doing less maintenance on them. Maybe the generally good boats are seeing higher sales prices due to fewer good boats available. But I think folks should do even more investigating of potential boats because of it.
Also, don't buy boats (or cars, or bikes) unseen!!!

[roadtrip se]

Less delay with one of the moderators checking in once a day to delete unwanted posts at their sole digression.

Phil

We agree on this point. Without everyday, active moderation of this area and frankly, the whole site, the value of information posted here becomes much less valuable to the community as a whole and more of a free for all.

Active Q&A on for sale boats, done in a positive and genuine manner was a good thing in the past, as it educated everyone and I feel drove better prices for the boats, because more people saw the value in these things.

Having this area locked down basically kills it and is quite the dichotomy when you look at the rest of the site and the lack of any real moderation.

[Donzi_Dude]

most successful for sale boards do not allow comments or critique of the unit/ad.

questions and clarification are welcomed.

[BUIZILLA]

George, i'm not picking on you specifically, but it seems every time a boat comes up for sale here it becomes a free for all of opinions to see who can low ball it the most... and in the end those responders don't have any money to play with any way, much less buyers in the market, much less know what they are talking about.. what a certain re-seller did here the last 2 years will take this community another 2 years to unravel, that, in itself, is a travesty to ALL of us

there are nice boats being sold elsewhere for at least 30-50% more than here, and they are clearly worth the coin IMO.... just look at the people that come here AFTER a boat is bought, and compare what they spent vs. whats listed and picked apart here

[Donziweasel]

Jim, I have to disagree. I have my jet boat listed for sale on boatrader. I have a stated price of 13,000.00. I have recieved offers as low as 5000.00.

You are going to get lowball offers anywhere, period. In this economy, people seem to think because you are selling something, you desperatly need the money. In some cases, this might actually be true.

No one said you had to take an offer. I did not take offense to the low balls I got, but I am not going to take them.

I waited a month and a half and sold the jet yesterday for 12,500.00.

I look at it this way, an offer is an offer and a starting point. If they won't meet the lowest price you are willing to sell for, then simply pass.

I have been on both sides. As a buyer, I want the lowest price I can get. As a seller, I want the highest. I have looked at CL and seen classics so overpriced, I though the sellers were on crack. These same boats sit for months. Sellers are just as bad as buyers sometimes by putting the sale price of there boats at an unreasonable price. Is a 1995 18 with 500 hours in decent condition worth 30,000.00? No, but I have seen them listed there.

Sellers and buyers sometimes need a reality check.

[roadtrip se]

most successful for sale boards do not allow comments or critique of the unit/ad.
questions and clarification are welcomed.

Worked and worked well here for a lot of years, so I guess this wasn't like most successful for sale boards.


George, i'm not picking on you specifically, but it seems every time a boat comes up for sale here it becomes a free for all of opinions to see who can low ball it the most... and in the end those responders don't have any money to play with any way, much less buyers in the market, much less know what they are talking about.. what a certain re-seller did here the last 2 years will take this community another 2 years to unravel, that, in itself, is a travesty to ALL of us

there are nice boats being sold elsewhere for at least 30-50% more than here, and they are clearly worth the coin IMO.... just look at the people that come here AFTER a boat is bought, and compare what they spent vs. whats listed and picked apart here


Jim, you are way over-generalzing. A lot of boats were sold here at premium prices to knowledgable buyers educated here.
I know, I watched over this piece of the site for a lot of years. It worked, but it does take an active moderator.

[BUIZILLA]

Jim, I have to disagree. I have my jet boat listed for sale on boatrader. I have a stated price of 13,000.00. I have recieved offers as low as 5000.00.

You are going to get lowball offers anywhere, period. In this economy, people seem to think because you are selling something, you desperatly need the money. In some cases, this might actually be true.

No one said you had to take an offer. I did not take offense to the low balls I got, but I am not going to take them.

I waited a month and a half and sold the jet yesterday for 12,500.00. actually, you proved my point perfectly, you sold it for 96% of your asking price on a NON ENTHUSIAST SPECIFIC website :cistineb:


A lot of boats were sold here at premium prices to knowledgable buyers educated here.
I know, I watched over this piece of the site for a lot of years. It worked, but it does take an active moderator. keyword >> WERE,,, specifically when you oversaw it values were real, I bought 5 Donzi's in that period, i'm talking today, and the previous 2 years to where we are today... :umbrella:

[Donziweasel]

I have also seen new members who are looking to sell first ask in the "whatever" and "performance" sections what their Donzi was worth before listing it. I have seen what I consider fairly accurate prices given by members.

This board is about Donzis and one aspect of it is to educate people on the value of these boats.

Lets take a stock 1995 18 in decent shape as an example. It is probably worth between 14,000-17,000.00.

Is a buyer who offers 10,000.00 any worse than a seller trying to sell it for 25,000.00?

If a seller lists his boat at a seriously inflated price, it will sit and not sell. Boat price is either reduced by seller, or doesn't sell. Buyer who offers a ridiculously low price might lose the boat from a realistic buyer.

More than not, I have seen boats that were listed above value lowered over time due to a lack of interest in the for sale section. Sellers learn, sometimes through input from members, sometimes on their own due to lack of interest, what thier Donzi is worth.

Case in point. I saw an 18 for sale here that I thought was high. I purchased the Critter instead. I watched the owner lower the price over time till it was about right and it sold. Funny, I offered him more at the time than what the boat actually sold for three months later.

[Walt. H.]

most successful for sale boards do not allow comments or critique of the unit/ad.
questions and clarification are welcomed.
So if that is what you believe then why did you post a negative comment regarding a prop I had forsale then delete your post so that no one else here would see your dirty deed to attempt changing the mind of the person inquiring about it, except for myself and the other person inquiring who would receive a e-mail to acknowledge that a reply was posted and what you wrote.
You're still an agitating disruptive Troll to this site D dude regardless of your apologizing B.S. PM to myself and others!

You still have a problem of offering opinions to things you know very little about!
WH

[gcarter]

I think John is on track.
Education IS important to prospective buyers and sellers.
My first statement above on page 1 was my (in most cases) futile attempt to help people sell teir boat. Posting a few pictures of new upholstery, carpet, shiny gel, and a clean engine doesn't a great Donzi make.
Maybe a sticky of four or five paragraphs explaining what makes a good boat, some condition explanations so that (particularly 1st. time) buyers and sellers understand what should be looked at, and examples shown in pictures.
Then, maybe a random selection of boat prices sold in the last year according to year, model, and condition, might be helpful.
I'll be the first to admit, I'm a bit jaundiced by the condition of a lot of used Donzi's I see, some, or a lot, of my comments reflect my experience. Others here probably have a much sunnier outlook on the boats we have.
Ultimately though, sellers need to be realistic of the condition of their prized possesions, and buyers ought to learn what to look for and not get too eager.

[mike o]

Worked and worked well here for a lot of years, so I guess this wasn't like most successful for sale boards.




Jim, you are way over-generalzing. A lot of boats were sold here at premium prices to knowledgable buyers educated here.
I know, I watched over this piece of the site for a lot of years. It worked, but it does take an active moderator.A recent example would be the Shep Brown 22........:cards: Stans (inferno's) 18 was was an :cards: that somebody (could) have snatched up. There was a 98/16/ 350 V8, low hr, boat house kept, that was a smoking turn key boat, sold at a fair price in MI.

[Ghost]

A few thoughts leap to mind:

Waiting (for approvals to post a boat for sale, or to post questions and responses about a boat up for sale) is a HUGE detractor from the purpose of the section: to facilitate deals between buyers and sellers that make both parties happy.

It's real work for a third party to police all the ads and all the discussion. The third party stands to gain relatively little, and thus other than commitment to the community, there is little incentive to process the traffic quickly. It can be a LOT of work, and even with a lot of devoted commitment by the moderator, it's STILL difficult and unreasonable to expect him to provide the level of "service" all would like. There are only so many like N20 ("Mr. Posterity") who have such devotion to providing public services on the site, and even then people still have to wait for moderation.

So, running without moderation has a lot of advantages when people play nice and stay focused.

That said, the problems that jump to mind when running unmoderated are:

Malicious attempts to badmouth a seller's offering (rare)
Misinformation (or perceived misinformattion) that muddies the waters about the ad or worse, badmouths the ad, even if unintentionally
Distractions and hijacks where conversation strays, and the ad gets turned into a thread about something else
Problem 1 is rare. Problems 2 and 3 are more common, and can frequently be inadverent accidents, based simply on people not being focused in their posting. BUT: people will never be focused enough to avoid some amount of this.

So, the right answer, if technically feasible with the vBulletin software, seems easy to me. Let anyone post an ad, with no moderation delay. You post it and up it goes. Let anyone respond to an ad. Again, no delay. But grant the seller the ability to delete any posts from his ad thread. And to lock people out of that thread if needed.

This lets people police their ads as much and as quickly as they choose. They have all the incentive here, and they can act on that incentive. The good and disciplined people are rewarded with immediate discussion.

The folks who are malicious, or off-topic, or muddying the waters, get their stuff pulled as fast as the thread owner wants. The thread owner gets to judge who is simply asking questions and discussion versus who is being deliberately disruptive or malicious.

And, in cases where someone other than the seller is FIRMLY of the mind that something is being misrepresented, is a scam, whatever? If someone is so strongly of the opinion that he needs to WARN people, he can always PM anyone and/or start a new thread that serves to notify people of what he believes is misbehavior by a seller.

This warning should and will be its own thread. It won't show up in the sale thread, and it will be kindof a big deal. The need to to start a thread, reference the sale thread, and explain the warning is a MUCH BIGGER barrier to beating up an ad than simply tossing a snide grenade into the ad thread. It is throwing down the gauntlet. It should be a big deal. And in rare cases when it does happen, if something needs sorting out, THEN some higher moderator, ultimately ending in Scot, can investigate on a case-by-case basis.

Anyhow, FWIW, if vBulletin allows permissions to be set up this way I think it is the best approach.

Curious what folks think of this approach, and also curious if anyone knows whether the permissioning rules will allow it.

Mike

[Donziweasel]

I think George and Mike are right.

A criterea for listing a boat like George stated for the year, make model, condition, etc.....would help alot. I have seen frustration from members and buyers when someone with one post posts an ad that simply says "Donzi for sale. 7,500.00". No make, model, pics, engine, nothing....... Educating people on how to sell a boat is as important as the actual selling. List as much info and as many pics as possible. Many people simply do not know how to list something for sale. Hell, when I listed my Critter, I got as many complements on my ad as on the boat in PMs! Perhaps a form to fill out for an ad would help.

Here is a link to the Critter ad and you can see the difference vs a "Donzi for sale-7,500.00" with nothing else or pics - Lots of info and in my ad. I also wanted big pics so people could see for themselves the condition of the Critter.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64351

One should really think out their ad and give as much detail as possible. Make it as attractive to a potential buyer as possible without stating things that are simply not true or lying about the condition of the boat.
I also think Mike is right, give the poster of the ad the ability to deleted unwanted posts. At least be able to falg them for removal from a moderator, if we ever get one. These are ads, not discussion threads like on other parts of the forum. We have said that someones ad is sacred. If I posted a boat and someone said the color was ugly (gucci green anyone :) ), this is an opinion of the person, not a fact. Let the seller be able to ding that comment.

Finally, I think Walt is the most right-


You're still an agitating disruptive Troll to this site D dude regardless of your apologizing B.S. PM to myself and others!

Yes he is and will always be. Didn't you read your own poll? On top of claiming fake Criterions, Monzis, lies about your posts, attacking members for no reason, attacking members who left that you never knew, lies in general, now you are going to say successful for sale board don't allow comments but you bash someones ad you had no interest in buying? Go away troll.

[Marlin275]

. . . give the poster of the ad the ability to deleted unwanted posts. At least be able to falg them for removal from a moderator . . . Let the seller be able to ding that comment.



https://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/vb4_blog_permissions

Can Manage Comments within Own Blog -
provides the ability for users to manage their own blog comments,
allowing them to both delete, edit and moderate them as they see fit.

Follow Blog Moderation Setting - if set to yes all blog entries will follow the global settings,
if set to No then all entries will be moderated.

[BUIZILLA]

apparently, I don't know what i'm talking about

for instance, a couple days ago I listed a 23' Seacraft CCF on The Hull Truth for sale

within 1 hour we had over 10 emails, and 6 direct phone calls, and an appt to see for 4 players that day by sunset

within 4 hours it was inspected, and a deposit down by the first guy that showed up, 3 more showed up at the same time, and left unhappy

within 4 hours from the time it was listed we had a cash deposit, and (drum roll) by 8pm we had over 20 (no typo there) back up buyers ready to go, by 7:00am the next morning I quit responding, when emails and calls had reached 40 perspective buyers in less than 18 hours of it being listed

6 buyers, in writing, tried to buy it underneath the deposit person, for up to 3k more... all in less than 24 hours from listing it (BIG mistake dealing with me on that backdoor crap)

today, it was cashed out in a brown bag after a sea trial

I have had over 30 callers on my Sea Hunt listings, but i'm hard headed on the number, and it doesn't have a T-top, and I won't deliver it for free out of state and take your mothers Honda in trade that has 214k miles on it to sweeten the deal (I know what I have, and am NOT desperate) so it still sits in my driveway...

but hey, it wasn't a Donzi, so what do I know, as I haven't received even one phone call on my Critter from this site in the last 2 years, and it's priced 20k under what I have in it, and they only made 14 of them, and next to Ed's is the nicest original on this planet...

:angryfire:

[Marlin275]

apparently, I don't know what i'm talking about

for instance, a couple days ago I listed a 23' Seacraft CCF on The Hull Truth for sale

within 1 hour we had over 10 emails, and 6 direct phone calls, and an appt to see for 4 players that day by sunset

within 4 hours it was inspected, and a deposit down by the first guy that showed up, 3 more showed up at the same time, and left unhappy

within 4 hours from the time it was listed we had a cash deposit, and (drum roll) by 8pm we had over 20 (no typo there) back up buyers ready to go, by 7:00am the next morning I quit responding, when emails and calls had reached 40 perspective buyers in less than 18 hours of it being listed

6 buyers, in writing, tried to buy it underneath the deposit person, for up to 3k more... all in less than 24 hours from listing it (BIG mistake dealing with me on that backdoor crap)


you left money on the table
price was too low . . .

[gcarter]

Just for reference, here's a scan of the aforementioned motorcycle condition guide.
As I said previously, this is very clear and should be easily adaptable to a boat;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65408&stc=1&d=1310238002

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65409&stc=1&d=1310237945

It's just an idea, and if folks took it seriously, it should eliminate a lot of crap from those that believe their stuff is 10X more valuable than everyone elses.

[BUIZILLA]

maybe, maybe not, ours was the oldest by far and had NO electronics, not even a VHF... there are two more for sale on there with zero action, one 3k less, and one 3k more.... we priced it in the middle, and came out with our asking price in 4 hours... :jester:

[Donziweasel]

Jim, I am not saying you are wrong, BUT, has anyone had a "free for all" on your ad before the moderation? Has anyone "lowballed" you? You haven't even had an offer.

A Donzi is a unique boat with an appeal to a limited number of people. It is not a family boat, ski, boat, fishing boat, bay boat, etc.... Plus, a Criterion is an even more limited boat.

I tried to sell my Critter on Ebay, CL, Boatrader, etc.... My sale came for here and I was satisfied with the price. The buyer did not try and negotiate, he agreed to pay the price I had it listed at.

I think many Donzi's sell on the for sale section for reasonable prices.

Have you tried listing your Critter on other media than here? If so, what has been the outcome?

The boats you have sold appealed to a much larger crowd. That is why you got such a quick response.

I think you Critter is the best stock Critter out there and is an absolutely gorgeous boat. You have kept it in amazing condition. Blaming the for sale section for it not selling is not really accurate. Maybe the price is too high for the current market or maybe no one wants a Critter right now. Anyway, I have not seen one negative comment on your Critter or a lowball offer.

[BUIZILLA]

Jim, I am not saying you are wrong, BUT, has anyone had a "free for all" on your ad before the moderation? Has anyone "lowballed" you? You haven't even had an offer.

A Donzi is a unique boat with an appeal to a limited number of people. It is not a family boat, ski, boat, fishing boat, bay boat, etc.... Plus, a Criterion is an even more limited boat.

I think you Critter is the best stock Critter out there and is an absolutely gorgeous boat. You have kept it in amazing condition. Blaming the for sale section for it not selling is not really accurate. Maybe the price is too high for the current market or maybe no one wants a Critter right now. Anyway, I have not seen one negative comment on your Critter or a lowball offer.
tell ya what i'll do here, and we'll see if i'm accurate

the price for my Critter, if it sells by July 28, will match what you sold your Critter for > 20k cash, turn key, come and get it, turn key, that's 2k more than I paid for the shell and 24k under what I have spent.... we'll see if this website can sell a boat, i'll bet it doesn't sell

everybody can prove me wrong :sombrero:

July 29th it is back to 24k, or 20k without the engine, same as before................

[Donziweasel]

Jim, my Critter was on Boattrader for 8 months before I bought it and I was the first offer he had.

Criterions, as much as I love them, are hard boats to sell anywhere.

[BUIZILLA]

Jim, my Critter was on Boattrader for 8 months before I bought it and I was the first offer he had.

Criterions, as much as I love them, are hard boats to sell anywhere. actually, it was for sale for a least 3 years before you bought it and started at 39,500k...

[Donziweasel]

All I can say is I do hope your Criterion sells for a fare price or you get a good trade. It is an amazing Critter and anyone should be ecstatic to own it. :)

I spent 6 hours and over 100 miles in it one day and it is truely an amazing stock Critter. :)

[Marlin275]

Criterions, as much as I love them, are hard boats to sell anywhere.

Seems that most people that buy them
don't own them for long
why is that . . .

[BUIZILLA]

Seems that most people that buy them
don't own them for long
why is that . . . i've had mine for 8 years... but my new grandaughter wants a deck boat... a fasttt one ;)

[Just Say N20]

I have offered at least 4 different times during the past few years to act as a moderator in the for sale section. It is a place I frequent, and have an interest in.

I also try very hard to be factual in my posts, and not get involved in personal attacks.

I was told on at least one occasion I was going to be given moderator status to help out with the For Sale section, but with all Harbormaster's weightier issues, this never happened.

I believe this is unfortunate, as I too, do not believe the multiple day wait before posts show up is not beneficial.

[Donziweasel]

Poodle, Ed, McGary, and Cliff have held on to thiers for a while. I just didn't like mine that much. I still think they are very cool boats, just not my cup of tea.

Back to moderating the for sale section......

Bill has offered, and I think would be a good moderator. :)

Buiz says it needs to be moderated because of a "free for all" and "lowball offers". Free for all, maybe, lowball offers, no- politely pass and if you are insulted, get thicker skin.

Buiz says his Critter is a prime example because it has not sold for a year. Not really a case for moderation in the for sale section as his ad has not been a free for all and he has not had lowball offers.

Buiz says a prime example is a bay boat that sold quickly elsewhere. Bay boats are the most sought after boat for sale today and he lives in a highly desirable market, but not really a case for moderation in this for sale section.

George thinks criterea should be met for boats to be sold and this will cut down on some the negativity. He has suggested a numeral rating system to judge the condition of your boat for sale when you post it. I agree. Non descriptive over priced ads will get some negative comments. Also, ads that are not honest about the condition will get annomosity when the boat is inspected or purchased by someone.

Mike thinks sellers should be able to moderate their own ads. I agree. Marlin had proven that V Bulletin is capable of this.

Bill has offered to moderate and his is in fact a moderator on another Donzi forum. I agree he would be a good moderator and frequents that section alot.

There has been no one who thinks the for sale section should be moderated but Bob thinks comments should be limited.

Walt thinks Donzi Dude is a troll and I agree.

Jim has a grandaughter who wants a deck boat. I agree this would be a cool boat to share with her and a better faamily boat than a Critter.

Have I missed anything? :)

[roadtrip se]

keyword >> WERE,,, specifically when you oversaw it values were real, I bought 5 Donzi's in that period, i'm talking today, and the previous 2 years to where we are today... :umbrella:

Yes, DW, Buiz thinks I can't read normal size font and that I live in the past. Both of which are false.

So when I moderated the for sale section there were run down artists and low ballers, just like there are today. The only difference? They couldn't run rampant all over this site. Today they can. So we can agree on that and the obvious result is a dead for sale section and a free-for-all everywhere else here.

Real truth, this thread is a waste of effort, because nothing is going to change.

And Jim, remember you have friends here, you could stand to tone it down a little. Have a cocktail.

[Donziweasel]

In any event, the individual whos ads and sales seemed to create the most controversy is gone and the section should be reopened to posts IMO. If Scot does not have the time to moderate daily and he wishes it to be moderated, then appoint one.

[Buddyc]

I have offered at least 4 different times during the past few years to act as a moderator in the for sale section. It is a place I frequent, and have an interest in.
I also try very hard to be factual in my posts, and not get involved in personal attacks.
I was told on at least one occasion I was going to be given moderator status to help out with the For Sale section, but with all Harbormaster's weightier issues, this never happened.
I believe this is unfortunate, as I too, do not believe the multiple day wait before posts show up is not beneficial.
For what its worth, I enjoyed your posts in the for sale section... that is what brought me to the site in the first place. I hope it gets back to what it was...

[DonziJon]

My eyes got glazed over at about the last 4 posts. I have no clew why you people don't get it. WE ALL Know what the problem is...It's a couple of ...We have a couple of DIK HEDDS who insert themselves in the For Sale section who have no business being there..WE Know who they ARE............

OK: Just DELETE THEM from the membership. What's the problem...??? We don't need no stinkin moderation if they are gone. :) DJ

[Donziweasel]

My eyes got glazed over at about the last 4 posts. I have no clew why you people don't get it. WE ALL Know what the problem is...It's a couple of ..I need to be careful here because DW might become offended..We have a couple of DIK HEDDS who insert themselves in the For Sale section who have no business being there..WE Know who they ARE............

Jon, I am not offended, we just don't need to go there anymore. We all read the treads and you can make your own deductions about what may or may not have happened. Discussing it any more at this point is simply beating a dead horese.

Plus, I am good freinds with a family member of the individual and out of respect for him, I just don't want to bring up the past. It upsets him and as it would me if someone spoke poorly about a family member of mine despite what they may or may not have done.

Whether you did not like the way he portrayed boats, or how he sold them, or if you purchased a boat from him and the deal did not turn out as you had hoped, it is over. He has retired from selling Donzis and it is time to move on. As far as I am concerned, it really never needs to be discussed again.

For me, this is not about him, but about opening back up the for sale section. :)

[DonziJon]

Hey DW: I have NEVER had anything against you. I think that you have a Thin Skin and have maligned me a few times in the distant past because of your perceived thoughts about me. I EDITED my last post ..check it out..because I KNEW you had a thin skin. I didn't want to make trouble. DJ

[Buddyc]

Plus, I am good freinds with a family member of the individual and out of respect for him, I just don't want to bring up the past. It upsets him and as it would me if someone spoke poorly about a family member of mine despite what they may or may not have done.

For me, this is not about him, but about opening back up the for sale section. :)

Im with you 100%. LEts move forward and not dwell in the past. and for what it is worth you never seemed like the thin skinned kinds guy to me.:jestera:

[Carl C]

Open up the for sale section. Bill moderating it would be a plus.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Who really care about that old Crap. Bye gones be bye gones. It's Not really working well when some one asks a question and the reply is unheard(or unread). So maybe we should just post the questions and replies in the what ever you want to talk about, with a link to the boat in question.

http://www.ooze.com/ooze13/images/cats/1way.jpg

[Donziweasel]

Hey DW: I have NEVER had anything against you. I think that you have a Thin Skin and have maligned me a few times in the distant past because of your perceived thoughts about me. I EDITED my last post ..check it out..because I KNEW you had a thin skin. I didn't want to make trouble. DJ

Jon, I have pretty thick skin and hold nothing against you what so ever. Yes, we did cross swords a few years back, but I can't even remember what about.

It is all good, lets just concentrate on the for sale section on this thread. If you want to talk about what happened years ago, shoot me a PM or give me a call. :)

[DonziJon]

Jon, I have pretty thick skin and hold nothing against you what so ever. Yes, we did cross swords a few years back, but I can't even remember what about.
It is all good, lets just concentrate on the for sale section on this thread. If you want to talk about what happened years ago, shoot me a PM or give me a call. :)

Hey DW: I'm Good with that. :yes:

I really HOPE you don't bail out of Wyomimg. I've been there on my first motorcycle trip cross country..(1 of 3) ...1985...Following the Oregon Trail. I would love to live there. If I did..I would be FLYING..not a Donzi. Pitts Aircraft is just down the road from you. ..in a one horse town...I can't remember the name. A big arch across the main street with a bunch of antlers. :) John

[jamiller]

SO ---- now that we're all friends again, when does the "DONZIS FOR SALE" section get back to normal? I sure do miss it with my morning coffee.

1994 18' classic (new toy, first year, lovin it)
1999 16' yamaha jet, twin 135's
1984 20' sea ray bowrider, merc 260

[Just Say N20]

That is the million $$$$ question.

[Ghost]

That is the million $$$$ question.

Quit lowballing or I will call the moderator. ;)

[BUIZILLA]

come on guys, no cyber bullying... that WILL get you a stupid lawsuit against you

Internet Brands just found that out, on another website...

[fogducker III]

come on guys, no cyber bullying... that WILL get you a stupid lawsuit against you

Internet Brands just found that out, on another website...

You sure do get around don't you.....:eek::wink:

Did you happen to see who was named in the suit.....:lookaroun::yes:

[BUIZILLA]

You sure do get around don't you.....:eek::wink:

Did you happen to see who was named in the suit.....:lookaroun::yes:

in my best Col. Klink voice.... I know nutting, nutting at awlll

[fogducker III]

in my best Col. Klink voice.... I know nutting, nutting at awlll


...vee havt vays of maken you talk.....

PS. Wasn't that Sgt.Schultz's line...?

[Ghost]

in my best Col. Klink voice.... I know nutting, nutting at awlll

Boone: Klink?! He means Sgt. Schultz, right?
Otter: Forget it, he's rolling.

:)

[BUIZILLA]

Boone: Klink?! He means Sgt. Schultz, right?
Otter: Forget it, he's rolling.

:) in this situation, I stand by being Col. Klink :cool:

[mike o]

...vee havt vays of maken you talk.....

PS. Wasn't that Sgt.Schultz's line...?:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:

[Walt. H.]

Hogan you'll get me in trouble again, But I know nottin aboat dis!:nilly:

[fogducker III]

The best part of the show.....rivals Ginger of Gilligans Island....

[Donziweasel]

I hope Gilligan, Klink, Schultz or Hogan can find us a moderator..... :)

Maybe the Professor, Mr. Howell or Mary Ann could do it, I think any of them could do the job..... :)

[hardcrab]

Eddie Haskell has the qualifications.

[Phil S]

I really don't understand your hang-up with Gilligan dammit ! It wasn't his fault dang it !!! :lookaroun::)

[LadyGrizz]

Seems that most people that buy them
don't own them for long
why is that . . .
Well.....I've had my 1980 Criterion for 10 years now. Love it and won't be selling it until I can't run it anymore. One or two folks whose situations change and they want/need a more "family" oriented boat or just a different type of boat doesn't constitute "most people" or imply that there's anything wrong with the boat. Just sayin'....

[Donziweasel]

It has now been 9 days since any updates. This is BS. If Scot doesn't want to do it, then get someone else or open it up. End of story. :mad:

Someone should send him a link to this thread. I would do it, but we are not exactly on speaking terms these days.

[Ed Donnelly]

Well.....I've had my 1980 Criterion for 10 years now. Love it and won't be selling it until I can't run it anymore. One or two folks whose situations change and they want/need a more "family" oriented boat or just a different type of boat doesn't constitute "most people" or imply that there's anything wrong with the boat. Just sayin'....


I've had my Criterion SS 16 yrs now.. Ed