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View Full Version : Sweet 16 in 7-8 2011 Boating mag.



Carl C
06-24-2011, 09:52 PM
Maybe the Classics aren't dead just yet. I know some people like to keep these articles since there aren't many so here it is:
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pictures454Large.jpg
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pictures455Large.jpg
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/Pictures456Large.jpg

silverghost
06-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Carl~
From the article that's not a very interesting or exciting engine power option for $79 K.

Now if they offered a Viper Ilmor V-10 engine option like Ted (Mr.X) just put into his fantastic custom project I would be sending Donzi a Casheer's check today for MY brand new custom design studio series Donzi 18 today.

I'd like to have that in "Viper Blue" with a white & blue interior, closed freshwater cooling, & the Shelby series style engine hatch & K tabs, large fuel tank etc.

Donzi can choose my CD/stereo option.

It would be great to be able to take deivery before this upcomming Labor Day weekend.
I want at least one weekend's use THIS summer.

I am TOTALLY serious here !
Call me Donzi Josh...

Carl C
06-25-2011, 10:16 AM
Carl~
From the article that's not a very interesting or exciting engine power option for $79 K.

Now if they offered a Viper Illmor V-10 engine option like Ted (Mr.X) just put into his fantastic custom project I would be sending Donzi a Casheer's check today for MY custom design studio series Donzi 18 today.

I'd forget about a big block in the 16 but DonziJosh has indicated that they are more flexible with engine choices on the 22 at least so who knows. Also one can only hope that maybe they will deal a bit on the price. It seems that they are still in a transition stage. No one paid list price when buying a boat from a stocking dealer. :crossfing:

silverghost
06-25-2011, 10:23 AM
Carl & Josh ~
No 16 or 22 for me~

I want the above Ilmor V-10 Viper engine option in a Custom Design Studio Donzi 18.
I will pay full factory list price .
Cash on hand ~
It's burning a hole in my pocket.

Not Kidding !

Carl C
06-25-2011, 10:31 AM
Carl & Josh ~
No 16 or 22 for me~

I want the above Illmor V-10 Viper engine option in a Custom Design Studio Donzi 18.
I will pay full factory list price .
Cash on hand ~
Not Kidding !

Call Josh. I doubt it though. I don't know why you'd want that or if it would even fit. You have a lot of high output SBC choices or maybe they will sell you a hull without power but cut and ready for a Bravo. They want to sell boats.

silverghost
06-25-2011, 11:07 AM
Carl~
It would be totally unique and would really be designed for ME .
I would be the only Big Kid on my block to own one.
Just for that very fact it would be totally worth the price to me.
A great way for Donzi to really show-off what their Custom Design Studio can really build for a customer
Great advertizing platform for them also.

The Viper V-10 is all aluminum and thus fairly light.
Ilmor offers it is several possible horsepower options .
The only possible problem issue that I see might be the total engine's installed length & the bench seat's back.
I would not want the seat cut-up.
I might consider the Donzi 22 hull if the engine fit in the 18 would not be workable ?

Donzi_Dude
06-25-2011, 11:08 AM
maybe the v-10 would fit if you delete the rear seat?

Donzi_Dude
06-25-2011, 11:11 AM
maybe the v-10 would fit if you delete the rear seat?



06-25-2011, 03:07 PM
06-25-2011, 03:08 PM

LoL!

Carl C
06-25-2011, 01:58 PM
Carl~
It would be totally unique and would really be designed for ME .
I would be the only Big Kid on my block to own one.
Just for that very fact it would be totally worth the price to me.
A great way for Donzi to really show-off what their Custom Design Studio can really build for a customer
Great advertizing platform for them also.

The Viper V-10 is all aluminum and thus fairly light.
Ilmor offers it is several possible horsepower options .
The only possible problem issue that I see might be the total engine's installed length & the bench seat's back.
I would not want the seat cut-up.
I might consider the Donzi 22 hull if the engine fit in the 18 would not be workable ?

Call Josh. Would like to know what he says. I don't think it is doable. It would be way over powered and way expensive. Are you really serious? You'd be looking at over 100 grand even if they worked with you on price.

Ghost
06-25-2011, 03:07 PM
Unless I miss my guess, I think the article is at least a bit misleading. It implies that some 16s have sold for $79k. ("Do many sell? No, but some guys simply must have one.") But in reality, it sounds like nothing has sold at that price except maybe one 22. And that's only a *maybe.*

I don't think they'll EVER sell a 16 at that price in today's dollars.

Greg Guimond
06-25-2011, 04:38 PM
I agree with you Ghost, no 16 will sell for $79,000 considering what you could have built just by getting an old 16 and doing an over the top restoration. You would be hard pressed to spend the same $79,000 even if you went to some of the best restoration shops in the country. You could not be in a rush, but the 16 Classic you would get would blow away a factory 16 Classic hands down. You could then bring it over to one of the high dollar auctions and probably get more then $79,000 for it if you had the right buyer.

Carl C
06-25-2011, 05:14 PM
I agree too but at least they haven't said they are done making them. I guess time will tell if they will make affordable ones again.

Last Tango
06-25-2011, 05:39 PM
Well, look at the very bright side of this:

Someone with $80K to blow on a Donzi Classic would also be smart enough NOT to get the new 16 or 18 for that price, and would probably have the smarts to buy a really nice recent unmodified original 16 or 18.

Thus if you own a late model 16 or 18 Classic in cherry original condition, it just took a huge jump in resale value. Classic 22's are harder to call at that pricepoint since a new one with a 496 Mag HO and trailer would sticker for around $80K today, anyway.

Any modified or repowered 16 or 18 would still be a onesie between owner and prospective buyer.

Greg Guimond
06-25-2011, 06:01 PM
Agree Carl. Maybe someone over there will keep the last nail out of the coffin.

That is interesting Tango although I am not sure it would be that way for a 16. I could agree with you 100% on a mint 18 because you get more usefulness all around out of an 18. The 16's are also too readily available out there in all forms so I doubt you would see any price increase for that model.

silverghost
06-25-2011, 06:05 PM
Does anyone have any work phone contact numbers for Josh at Donzi ?
I plan to explore the possibiliy of ordering an Ilmor engined 18 or possibly a 22 early next week.
I want somthing unusual & very cool.
Since I am now seriously considering sellng the unfinished benchseat 18 project since the passing of my Father~
I need to find that one special Donzi for me to finally relax & enjoy on the water~~~and the sooner~~~ the better !

Marlin275
06-25-2011, 06:22 PM
Does anyone have any work phone contact numbers for Josh at Donzi ?


We aim to please! Call us at 888.441.1614.
Josh

Brad just get the Berkeley Jet/ Olds 455
and your dream has come true . . .

gcarter
06-25-2011, 07:44 PM
As far as high pricing goes, as far back as 1990, Riva charged over $300K for a 24'-27' wooden boat and a 3+ year waiting period.
In spite of the economy, if some people want something, they'll buy it.

Greg Guimond
06-25-2011, 07:50 PM
Brad, go 18 and go jet. Doubtful the factory has any jet expertise so you'll have to head west for the rigging if you want it done to the highest standards by people who have a wealth of knowledge. You will need the Ilmor given the squirts ability to eat ponies for breakfast. Let me know, I'll give you the correct folks to talk to on the left coast.

Planetwarmer
06-27-2011, 12:54 AM
Why not buy the Shelby with the Ilmore in the classifieds?

Sweet little 16
06-28-2011, 10:05 AM
Carl & Josh ~
No 16 or 22 for me~

I want the above Ilmor V-10 Viper engine option in a Custom Design Studio Donzi 18.
I will pay full factory list price .
Cash on hand ~
It's burning a hole in my pocket.

Not Kidding !


please keep us posted on the build of this boat. I am sure the employees are happy for this order to get some work.

silverghost
06-28-2011, 12:41 PM
I just had a great conversation with Donzi Josh today before noon EST about the possibility of Donzi building a custom order Donzi 18 with Viper V-10 marine engine.

We both had some major concerns with this possible project idea .

1) Will the Ilmor Viper V-10 fit in the 18's engine bay?
2) Would it be too long ?
3) Would it be too high for the hatch ?
4) Would the oil pan sit in the hull ?
5) Would it be too heavy ?
6) Would the V-10 shift the Center of Gravity Balance of the great 18 hull and cause plane & handling issues ?
7) What horsepower V-10 would be reasonable ? (Ilmor makes several versions)
8) What outdrive combo might be best & would be able to hold up under this horsepower ? .
9) Is Donzi actually interested in possibly building such a custom classic 18 boat project ?
10) Would this be a realistic project and be within the scope of the Donzi Custom Design Studio ?
They have only built a few 18s in the last few years & all the molds & tooling are in indoor storage.

Josh will now investigate all issues of concern with Donzi , & Ilmor, and their respective engineers & designers, and will be getting back to me with his findings.

Thank's Josh !

Marlin275
06-28-2011, 12:45 PM
I just had a great conversation with Donzi Josh today before noon EST about the possibility of Donzi building a custom order Donzi 18 with Viper V-10 marine engine.


Is plan B) a jet drive?

jvcobra
06-28-2011, 01:03 PM
If the selling price is $79,000 I think it pretty much says they aren't building them anymore. What idiot would spend that kind of money on a 16ft boat?

silverghost
06-28-2011, 01:04 PM
A jet drive 18, or X-18, is not plan "B".
I still want to get another jet-drive Donzi.
I would NOT however have one custom built new .

If I cannot find an old 1970s Donzi jet X18 ~
& I have been looking for some time now~~ with no luck; as many here on this forum are aware.
I would then buy an old Donzi 18/ X-18 hull and have the real expert jet guys do the drive & engine conversion that Greg Guimond. has suggested.
In Fact~~
I seriously considered buying Forrest's old X-!8 hull that was "stranded" in New Jersey 30 min away, from that three-way-swap-deal that went bad~~~Very Bad on the forum here~
Talked to Tom & Emailed Buddy about it at the time~
But~ I did not want to get involved in that entire Fiasco.

A jet-Drive Donzi 18 has always been on my must-have list ever since my uncle sold the 1972 X-18 Donzi jet after only five years of ownership.

A Jet-Drive Donzi X-18 would be a way to recapture my 1970s late teenage wild & crazy youth.
I guess I am now in my second or third childhood & midlife crisis as of today ?

mattyboy
06-28-2011, 02:32 PM
:rlol:

roadtrip se
06-28-2011, 04:30 PM
See how I think these answers will come back below...

I just had a great conversation with Donzi Josh today before noon EST about the possibility of Donzi building a custom order Donzi 18 with Viper V-10 marine engine.
We both had some major concerns with this possible project idea .
1) Will the Ilmor Viper V-10 fit in the 18's engine bay? No.
2) Would it be too long ? Yes.
3) Would it be too high for the hatch ? Yes.
4) Would the oil pan sit in the hull ? Yes, it almost does in a much deeper 22.
5) Would it be too heavy ? Yes.
6) Would the V-10 shift the Center of Gravity Balance of the great 18 hull and cause plane & handling issues ? Yes.
7) What horsepower V-10 would be reasonable ? (Ilmor makes several versions) 725.
8) What outdrive combo might be best & would be able to hold up under this horsepower ? Go with the Indy from Ilmor.
9) Is Donzi actually interested in possibly building such a custom classic 18 boat project ? Why not.
10) Would this be a realistic project and be within the scope of the Donzi Custom Design Studio ? No.
They have only built a few 18s in the last few years & all the molds & tooling are in indoor storage. Great, order one with a small block and go have fun.
Josh will now investigate all issues of concern with Donzi , & Ilmor, and their respective engineers & designers, and will be getting back to me with his findings.
Thank's Josh !

Ghost
06-28-2011, 06:09 PM
See how I think these answers will come back as below...


As long as there's a pool to get in, I would tweak the predicted answer list at least a little, with deltas as shown:
"
Would it be too long ? Maybe No.
"
"
Would it be too heavy ? No. (About 100lbs heavier than a stock smallblock, depending on drive package...more on that coming.)
Would the V-10 shift the Center of Gravity Balance of the great 18 hull and cause plane & handling issues ? No. (Unless they have to have the Ilmor drive and/or add another 100-200 lbs of glass and resin to beef it up, in which case, leave this one a 'Yes'.)
What horsepower V-10 would be reasonable (Ilmor makes several versions)? 570.
What outdrive combo might be best & would be able to hold up under this horsepower? Bravo XR, if it has a chance to stand up to the 570 horse Ilmor. (A higher HP package will require the Ilmor drive, which adds 426 lbs to the 800 for the complete motor, blowing the weight budget.)
Is Donzi actually interested in possibly building such a custom classic 18 boat project? Not really, since there's not way to fit it in the motorbox.
"
All of this is just my speculation, trying to predict what I think will come back from the factory. But my guess is it's all moot, as it was game over at oil-pan space.

But as an aside Brad, if they are trying to price everything at 79k anyway, why not a 22 instead of an 18? I've only heard of one or two of those with an Ilmor, and you could certainly distinguish yours in other ways anyhow.

Or, will a big block fit in an 18? If it will, there's always the chance to get a custom builder to assemble an all-aluminum FWC big block. It'd be pretty badass just as a 415 HP 502, should be reliable, and would weigh about the same as the factory smallblock, right.

Or, how about an 18 or a 22 with one of these?
http://www.raylarengine.com/550_engine.html

Now I'm rambling as much as thinking, just tossing out some ideas...

Greg Guimond
06-28-2011, 06:37 PM
Brad,
In my opinion your wasting your time going to Donzi for this. They are not equipped with enough real world experience to take on a project of this nature, especially an 18. It is just not there sweetspot anymore. Plus, why not get the jet you really want? If your going to have a midlife crisis make it a worthy one and go squirt with the 50 yard "on demand" rooster tail !! That'll wake you up and anything less would be settling!
:rock:

silverghost
06-29-2011, 12:13 AM
Brad,
In my opinion your wasting your time going to Donzi for this. They are not equipped with enough real world experience to take on a project of this nature, especially an 18. It is just not there sweetspot anymore. Plus, why not get the jet you really want? If your going to have a midlife crisis make it a worthy one and go squirt with the 50 yard "on demand" rooster tail !! That'll wake you up and anything less would be settling!
:rock:
Well Greg~

First~ Donzi does not build, and has not built, an X-18 decked boat since the 70s .

Second~ Donzi does not build, and has not built, a V-8 jet-drive 18 boat since the 70s.

Third~ Who would be insane enough to pay Custom Design Studio prices for a Jet-drive 18 ?

Forth~ I may be crazy~
But I am NOT insane.

NOTE:
Other opinions may vary ?

Sweet little 16
06-29-2011, 07:25 AM
Brad,
just a few questions on your flavor of the month club here.
If you are not kidding and serious about buying a custom made boat with a power plant/drive alone that is in or over 50k ballpark . The boat would be well over the 80k qouted price when delivered. why not buy a quality X18 like the one out on the island for 15k and then spend 40k and rig it for your jet? this would be true to for your other dream boats like the benchseat you were serious about a month ago?? over 80k your willing to go but you would haggle about 5k here or there on a project that you have been wanting so long???

Greg Guimond
06-29-2011, 08:05 AM
Brad,
My comments were focused on a Classic 18 with Ilmor power, not the jet.

silverghost
06-29-2011, 08:16 PM
Brad,
just a few questions on your flavor of the month club here.
If you are not kidding and serious about buying a custom made boat with a power plant/drive alone that is in or over 50k ballpark . The boat would be well over the 80k qouted price when delivered. why not buy a quality X18 like the one out on the island for 15k and then spend 40k and rig it for your jet? this would be true to for your other dream boats like the benchseat you were serious about a month ago?? over 80k your willing to go but you would haggle about 5k here or there on a project that you have been wanting so long???

You ALL make some good points here~

But~~~ You don't understand what I have been going through here~

I still have the benchseat 18 project that WE have owned & have been working on since Aug 2009.
It was as much my late father's project as it was mine.
It was a Father & son project that we were working on together.
We have done many mahogany runabout restoration projects since the 1970s.together.
I don't know if you can really undersand this ~
BUT~
Since my Father's passing I cannot bring myself to uncover it; nor actually look at it in my back yard without actually tearing-up badly.
I also cannot bring myself to start working on it again.
I guess I am just an emotional Wimp when it comes to this boat project ?

Things have now radically changed in my life & I want a Donzi that is ready to go~
NOW~~~
Not another project.
I have several other water ready boats to use now,~~~ as well as my big Chris~Craft tripple cockpit project waiting in the wings.

But~ I have no running Donzi .
That's really what I Want and REALLY NEED NOW.

Re- X-18 Jet Drive Donzi
I do not want to start yet another X-18 Jet Drive project at this point in time.
I'm just not up for it emotionally~~~NOW .

.. I'd rather just spec-out a boat & have Donzi build it~
So I can enjoy it NOW.
I Need some New Joy & Fun in my life.

Any possible future projects will have to wait.

Since I feel so very bad & am so very depressed about the loss of my Dad I may never be able to touch that great benchseat 18 project ever again.
It may just be better to get rid of it.
It just brings back so many great & now sad memories of my Dad ~~~Who I will never see again.
My Dad was my BEST friend all my life.
And my boating Buddy.
He was the ONLY famly I really have now.
I am all alone now~

I hope Everyone can understand this thinking ?
It may seem strange to some here~~
But it is just the way I feel today~
Life is just too short.

I need to get out on the water soon & go fast .

Sweet little 16
06-29-2011, 09:47 PM
You ALL make some good points here~

But~~~ You don't understand what I have been going through here~

I still have the benchseat 18 project that WE have owned & have been working on since Aug 2009.
It was as much my late father's project as it was mine.
It was a Father & son project that we were working on together.
We have done many mahogany runabout restoration projects since the 1970s.together.
I don't know if you can really undersand this ~
BUT~
Since my Father's passing I cannot bring myself to uncover it; nor actually look at it im my back yard without actually tearing-up badly.
I also cannot bring myself to start working on it again.
I guess I am just an emotional Wimp when it comes to this boat project ?

Things have now radically changed in my life & I want a Donzi that is ready to go~
NOW~~~
Not another project.
I have several other water ready boats to use now,~~~ as well as my big Chris~Craft tripple cockpit project waiting in the wings.

But~ I have no running Donzi .
That's really what I Want and REALLY NEED NOW.

Re- X-18 Jet Drive Donzi
I do not want to start yet another X-18 Jet Drive project at his point in time.
I'm just not up for it emotionally~~~NOW .

.. I'd rather just spec-out a boat & have Donzi build it~
So I can enjoy it NOW.
I Need some New Joy & Fun in my life.

Any possible future projects will have to wait.

Since I feel so very bad & am so very depressed about the loss of my Dad I may never be able to touch that great benchseat 18 project ever again.
It may just be better to get rid of it.
It just brings back so many great & now sad memories of my Dad ~~~Who I will never see again.
My Dad was my BEST friend all my life.
And my boating Buddy.
He was the ONLY famly I really have now.
I am all alone now~

I hope Everyone can understand this thinking ?
It may seem strange to some here~~
But it is just the way I feel today~
Life is just too short.

I need to get out on the water soon & go fast .


very understandable emotions, most of us can deal with on some basis. That type of loss is felt by many.

it sounds like your wants have changed just going fast and now from having something special and unique. If I might make a suggestion the 18 is not really the boat for area nor is impulse buying for the wrong reasons.why not buy a decent 22 use it get out on the water now, a custom built 18 is not going to be built fast from donzi . you have even said the molds are in storage. a decent 22 witha 502 use it for a few seasons it will not loose all that much value,then maybe start the x18 when you're ready.

CrackerJack
07-01-2011, 10:13 PM
Fits in a 22 Classic.

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 07:26 AM
I just had a great conversation with Donzi Josh today before noon EST about the possibility of Donzi building a custom order Donzi 18 with Viper V-10 marine engine.

We both had some major concerns with this possible project idea .

1) Will the Ilmor Viper V-10 fit in the 18's engine bay?
2) Would it be too long ?
3) Would it be too high for the hatch ?
4) Would the oil pan sit in the hull ?
5) Would it be too heavy ?
6) Would the V-10 shift the Center of Gravity Balance of the great 18 hull and cause plane & handling issues ?
7) What horsepower V-10 would be reasonable ? (Ilmor makes several versions)
8) What outdrive combo might be best & would be able to hold up under this horsepower ? .
9) Is Donzi actually interested in possibly building such a custom classic 18 boat project ?
10) Would this be a realistic project and be within the scope of the Donzi Custom Design Studio ?
They have only built a few 18s in the last few years & all the molds & tooling are in indoor storage.

Josh will now investigate all issues of concern with Donzi , & Ilmor, and their respective engineers & designers, and will be getting back to me with his findings.

Thank's Josh !


been a few weeks any progress on this research?? just a thought for 60k I can get you into 2 of Don's famous 19 footers built on Thunderboat row. the first cig 19 built and the mythical benchseat hornet . both pieces of history . cash and carry

silverghost
07-13-2011, 11:40 AM
been a few weeks any progress on this research?? just a thought for 60k I can get you into 2 of Don's famous 19 footers built on Thunderboat row. the first cig 19 built and the mythical benchseat hornet . both pieces of history . cash and carry

Matt~
It's been a bit over two weeks since my call to Josh asking if they would be interested in building such a boat for me. Since that first, and only call I have heard nothing more at all from Josh or anyone from Donzi.

I want a turn-key boat now since my Dad's passing; and not any more projects.
Time for me to at least try to start enjoying life again.

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 11:56 AM
What would you like to have them build you Brad?

silverghost
07-13-2011, 12:16 PM
What would you like to have them build you Brad?

I asked for a quote on a
Donzi 18 , Ilmor V-10 , freshwater cooling, with beefy outdrive to handle this power,, hydraulic steering, Cobra blue & white Gell (Not paint since my boat sits IN the water all Summer for 5-6 months), no windshield, aluminum trailer, Stereo/CD player.
These were my only basic criteria.

Josh said he would run this past the folks at Donzi & get back to me.

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 12:56 PM
Matt~
It's been a bit over two weeks since my call to Josh asking if they would be interested in building such a boat for me. Since that first, and only call I have heard nothing more at all from Josh or anyone from Donzi.

I want a turn-key boat now since my Dad's passing; and not any more projects.
Time for me to at least try to start enjoying life again.


Brad
both the cig and the benchseat are not projects they are turn key pieces of history. well the hornet will be turnkey in a day or so.both boats are as original as possible.

seems to me if you were serious about this you would have picked up the phone and called as time seems to be your driving factor now. a custom boat order for over 80k ???would have thought that donzi would want to book that business as soon as possible.

silverghost
07-13-2011, 01:12 PM
Brad
both the cig and the benchseat are not projects they are turn key pieces of history. well the hornet will be turnkey in a day or so.both boats are as original as possible.

seems to me if you were serious about this you would have picked up the phone and called as time seems to be your driving factor now. a custom boat order for over 80k ???would have thought that donzi would want to book that business as soon as possible.

Matt~
I put the ball in their court~
Donzi has to decide if they want to build, or can build this "Custom powered & designed 18 ".
I am as puzzled as you as to why I have not heard anything from them ?
I had thought they were Interested in building "Custom Classics " ?
Perhapps the Ilmor V-10 is a problem for them?
It seems Donzi has not built an 18 2+3 "Classic" in some time ?

If I do not hear back from them soon I will start looking for another turn-key speedboat.

Why do you wish to sell your Cig 20 & the I/O Benchseat Hornet ?
I thought they were your dream boats & your long-term keepers.

BUIZILLA
07-13-2011, 01:16 PM
Brad, don't shoot the messenger here, but why build a 100k 18' boat thats gonna sit IN salt water for half a year??

buy something else nice and keep 70k in your pocket

Ghost
07-13-2011, 01:27 PM
I had a similar thought to Buizilla--IF you do put real money into a new boat, would it make sense to spend for some form of lift? My instinct is the difference in the boat's market depreciation in season one alone, if kept high and dry versus in the water, would be more than the cost of virtually any lift system. If you can't build a traditional lift in a marina slip or find one to rent, I would think one of these might do it.

http://www.jetdock.com/boat-lifts/

Or something.

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 01:28 PM
Donzi is not going to build you an Ilmor powered 18. Like I said, they don't have the needed experience.

silverghost
07-13-2011, 01:33 PM
Brad, don't shoot the messenger here, but why build a 100k 18' boat thats gonna sit IN salt water for half a year??

buy something else nice and keep 70k in your pocket

Jim~
I have no choice but to keep my boats in the saltwater all season.
I have four big boatslips with two 10'X25' floating docks and had pulled the local Ocean City NJ building permits to install four aliminum pile lifts when my new jacka## non boating lagoon waterfront next door neighbor sued me & the city claiming that my new lifts would spoil his new 2 Million $$$ lagoon front views.
I already had approval for the aluminum pile lifts.
So now I am stuck sitting in the saltwater all season long.

I already have three other boats in current use.
But NOT a Donzi ;
and not a fast boat.

BUIZILLA
07-13-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't see how you possibly lose a suit like that, nothing in his closing documents guarantee's him a view of anything, including sunlight...

Ghost
07-13-2011, 01:38 PM
Brad, that seriously sucks, sorry to hear it. That said, would something like a jet dock or other floating lift get around the issue?

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 01:42 PM
Brad

the only long term keepers in life are my family, as far as the boats are concerned everything has it's price.

I have re-read alot of your threads and see that you are a serious buyer for a few type of boats . you mentioned paying 25k for a benchseat project for a tad more you could have a finished one. Now you want an ilmor 18 custom built to sit in salt for over 80k.

If you are serious about getting out on the water why not get that minx in brant beach and then get a lift,davits or jet dock to keep it out of salt. you'll spend a fraction of the cost for new . if you're serious and the cash is no problem you could be boating in a unique donzi that would be perfect for the bay by this weekend and in a week or so it could be up out of the water.

when you're done jousting with the windmills and are interested in the hornet or the cig 19 ( cig is not mine but am brokering it) come with cash .

CaribouLou
07-13-2011, 02:07 PM
That motor will NOT fit in a 18, period.


XR's don't hold up well to the V10's, especially when aired out. Hell, I know people who blow up teauge platinum drives, and the IMCO drives with stock Ilmore motors, and you think a XR will take it? That's like me saying my King Cobra could take it.



I'm going to go ahead and say either buy the V10 22 shelby that's forsale here in Seattle, or have them build a 22 with a Ilmore.....don't do a 18, its just NOT a good idea.

silverghost
07-13-2011, 02:27 PM
The battle is not yet over with the pille lifts.
In the end I should win as there are plenty of similar lifts all over Ocean City & our lagoon.
But you all know how fast our legal system moves. not to mention the city officials.
I am standing my ground on this issue.
I WILL have lifts some day soon.
They are already sitting unassembled in my garage.

The jet docks are OK~
But your boat & the lift itself still bounces around.
No to mention the marine growth & muscles that grow on them.

re~ Ilmor V-10
I would be going for the lowest horsepower 500+ Ilmor if buildable in an 18.

The blue 22 with the Ilmor has gotten many negative comments on the web.
It looks slick~
But I have not seen it in person.
Several folks in the know have stated that I should stay away from it.

Matty~
Your benchseat Hornet sure seems real tempting.

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 02:37 PM
Brad, I know that it has to be a Donzi, but does it have to be an 18?

silverghost
07-13-2011, 02:57 PM
Brad, I know that it has to be a Donzi, but does it have to be an 18?

Greg~
I guess it all goes back to that old Donzi X-18 jet that i ran in the early to mid-70s.
I was crushed when my uncle sold it after only five years.

It's another midlife crisis thing~
Just like that special musclecar everyone wanted when you were in High School; but could not afford at the time.

My entire family is now all gone, I am alone in the world, and I want to try to re-live some of my boating fun from the past.
I have not been able to find another Donzi X-18/18 jet to replace it.
I have been looking for years.

I want a new, & very special, turn-key Donzi 18 or X-18 now~~~ today if possible.
A 22 is a possible second choice~
But~ I'd rather have the "classic" look & feel of the 18s

I hope everyone can understand this thinking ?

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 03:21 PM
Ok, I get it......must be an 18. Your only choice would be to work with the guys out West to create what you want. Otherwise, no joy.

mike o
07-13-2011, 03:40 PM
Sorry about your loss. Here's what Id do if "I" was you, considering. :cool:

Id go buy Bubbas' Scorpion 18. Bring it Brians 41's shop and have him do the ""Steve's whipple thing"",:yes: shorty, steering. :yes:, You'd be kissing 90MPH. Id be hanging with Hot shot while waiting, drinking vodka. Then, Id go to MagicalBill's bash in N MI:kingme: , since Im in the neibourhood.:yes: Then Id head south to get "wacked" in Chatt...:kingme: Then Id go to winni and spank those 22 with "blue" you know whats". Still have 50K in left my pocket, a sunburn, hang -over :yes: and need a nap.......:rlol: Just a thought!

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 04:23 PM
I'm exhausted just reading that binge Mike.............

BUIZILLA
07-13-2011, 04:42 PM
well Brad, I would do two things if I was you

you want the Classic one of a kind look? buy my Criterion

then, by all means, assemble the lift and install it, you already have the permits you said earlier and the goods are in the garage, if it was me i'd assemble it even if I didn't have a boat to put on it

you'll then have another 75k to do what you want next... and have a virtual Classic low production boat and be the envy of your lagoon...

screw the neighbor

wanta meet a wacky neighbor?, you don't know what wacky is... come on down and i'll show you the clown that lives (when he's not in Pakistan or therebouts) next to me

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 04:42 PM
Brad,
I am not sure what you want and I think you don't know either
your posts are filled with inconsistencies, you want new but an X18?? you want fast but long for a jet X18 which would be a PIG spanked in the bay by every warmed up sbc boat on the planet. you want it today but let almost 3 weeks go by without one word from Donzi.

as Mike as illustrated you can buy a turn key boat add some off the shelf items and have a fast 18 and then with some homework you can build a real screamer. and have some cash left over. if you really wanted this it should have happened by now.

silverghost
07-13-2011, 07:22 PM
Brad,
I am not sure what you want and I think you don't know either
your posts are filled with inconsistencies, you want new but an X18?? you want fast but long for a jet X18 which would be a PIG spanked in the bay by every warmed up sbc boat on the planet. you want it today but let almost 3 weeks go by without one word from Donzi.

as Mike as illustrated you can buy a turn key boat add some off the shelf items and have a fast 18 and then with some homework you can build a real screamer. and have some cash left over. if you really wanted this it should have happened by now.

Matty~
There are no Donzi 18 or X 18 jets to be found anywhere at any price.
They have not been built in decades.
Ours has a 390 HP Olds 455 and it was fast for it's day.
They have not built an X-18 hull in decades ~or I would be ordering one new now.

I am in no emotional condition for any project now that my Dad is gone.
In fact~
I cannot take the tarp off the yellow benchseat 18 project on my PA property without getting very upset.
I was OUR project.

Right now I want a go-fast turn-key & unusual 18 .

I have not forgotten about the jet X-18 /18 and would buy one now , tomorrow, or in the future if one pops-up on the market.

I have plenty of room & cash for more than one Donzi .

Things have changed since my Dad's passing.
Really changed .

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 08:35 PM
post pics when you get her.

I have read your posts about the grumble green x18 jet your uncle had very unusual boat and color for an x 18 . would be a one of a kind any pics of it or info on it

I am sure you have contacted the members here that have jet 18's and offered to buy them I mean if your willing to pay 100k for a new boat a 1/4 of that might get them to sell.

Carl C
07-13-2011, 08:38 PM
Ilmor 18 is silly when a big hp sbc is the proven way to go with an 18.

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 08:41 PM
What members currently have 18 Jets?

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 08:44 PM
What members currently have 18 Jets?


greg,
brad has searched for years he should be able to answer that

fogducker III
07-13-2011, 08:50 PM
Here ya go Brad, old...but new.....X18 (style) and good power......I have seen the boat in person and it is nice.......it IS a splash but a VERY nice one....Lenny can tell you more......

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/Sexy-Donzi_15252086

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 08:59 PM
I believe I see a theme developing here Matty...............

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 09:06 PM
I would think the 2 18 jets i am thinking of are pretty well known here but maybe not . but the search button is your friend. theme i like themes sanford and sons was one of my favorites.

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 09:10 PM
http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/v/album02/bmclaughlinrooster.jpg.html

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 09:15 PM
Ok Brad, your not going to buy an 18 Jet, and your not going to buy a 22. You probably won't buy anything BUT if you do here are a couple of neat options to help with the mid-life crisis. The first one is being offered without power so you can do it "your way". The second is turn key ready if you have the cajones to fly it. It will eat 22 Classics for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Ilmor MV10 725 in the fist one.......no problem
The second one........in your driveway this weekend

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 09:20 PM
Sorry but I had to post the dual wackers........:yes:

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 10:17 PM
progression?? nice ride

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 10:21 PM
Wrong Matty............very rare pieces :yes:

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 10:25 PM
linder hull? or derivitive?

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 10:33 PM
Strike two fine Sir...........these will make Brad forget all his troubles, if he can run 'em.

mattyboy
07-13-2011, 10:51 PM
so what gonna happen first ?????

brad buying a donzi or greg telling me what the twin eggbeater is ????? :rolleyes: :p :bonk: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Greg Guimond
07-13-2011, 10:57 PM
Matty, you have been gone for a while. Have you not learned?

Buddyc
07-13-2011, 11:16 PM
Brad, My father passed away 7 months ago and I miss him dearly everyday. I'm sorry to hear about your fathers passing.. its never easy. For me it is a bitter pill because we restored many cars and as he used to say " he taught me everything I know" Since his passing , I bought my Barrelback and cleaned out his garage and made it workable again. Sometimes it feels like he is there standing over my shoulder watching me like he always used to do. I know that if he was he would be happy to see me doingwhat we loved to do... making things beautiful again... I still miss him and shed a tear for him on a regular basis. But doing what we loved to do together brings me peace and happiness.

silverghost
07-13-2011, 11:54 PM
I suspect Matty feels it has been far too quiet on the forum lately ?

Few Donzi 18/X-18 Jets were ever made & fewer still seem to have survived today.
There are only a couple out there that I know about that are listed on this forum.
The grumble green X-18 & a blue 18 jet.
I do not know the owners of these boats & have no real way to contact them.
I doubt they would wish to sell ?

In 2009 a grumble green X-18 poped up here on this forum~
It had a new owner at that time who was restoring it ~~~But it seemed to be in very good shape.
I was owned by father & son Donzi owners.
Wen found it still had the old Olds 455 package.
Dad & I had suspected that it might be our family's old X-18 Berkeley jet?
When my uncle sold it we heard it went to the New York area.
From there it traveled westward~

The odds of finding a Donzi X-18/18 jet are very slim indeed.

I dare anyone to
just try to find one in any condition that IS for sale.

mattyboy
07-14-2011, 07:25 AM
Brad,

I suggest you have your eyes checked that boat was black.
a simple search here on X-18 Jet project found this thread . I would try and PM the owners and let them know you have room and cash for more than one Donzi see what they say.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52571

the other blue jet I believe is called hard cardy from the 1000 islands st lawrence area maybe the guys up there have a lead his first name was Barry I think.

while we're daring people I dare ya to find proof that they made a grumble green jet X 18

jousting windmills or chasing unicorns what's next an outboard criterion???

I think you need to set realistic goals get a decent classic now get your mind off things enjoy the rest of the summer. take some time and re-focus on the jet make contact with the owners let them know you are interested and if the want to sell to call you first.

you have an open offer from me on the benchseat too just incase you go back to wanting one. 28,500 today as it sits, 31,000 when finished 2 weeks and 34,500 in sept when it gets it's custom trailer under it. you find no un-restored benchseat in this original shape all new mechanicals and rigging all foam deck coring and a solid re-inforced seat.

Greg so what is it?

Greg Guimond
07-14-2011, 08:37 AM
Wow, Matty and Brad must have had "issues" in the past.......:screwy:

mattyboy
07-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Greg so what is the boat with the 2 eggbeaters?

silverghost
07-14-2011, 12:05 PM
Matty~ Not talking about the black X-18 .

There were a few short posts of a grumble green X-18 posted here a few years back~
The photo links may no longer work today.

Greg~
Matty has issues~ not I .
Matty is mad because I called his buddy, David Hartman of Hornet Marine, out on making Donzi rip-off "splashes" and then claiming HE designed this boat from scratch with all his mis-leading B.S. sales pitches posted here.
Matty then sent me two PMs about this Hornet Marine issue.
You would think because of his emotional reply that he was part owner of Hornet Marine ?

Now it appears Matty is trying to provoke a fight with me on this forum at every opportunity when I post here.
I rufuse to be baited into another fight here~

Such is life on Donzi.net
What else is new ?

mattyboy
07-14-2011, 01:22 PM
brad they never made a grumble green Jet X18

silverghost
07-14-2011, 01:52 PM
See what I mean ?
Still trying to pick a fight here~

Now he is the official self appointed Donzi Jet "Expert" telling us that Donzi did not build the green X-18 Berkeley/Olds 455 Jet, with twin fuel tanks that my uncle bought off the Philly boat Show floor in 1972.
There was also a Yellow Donzi 16 Jet in Ocean City NJ at that very same time.

Matty~ Donzi built many more jet-drive boats than you think YOU know about, or claim to have secret records on.

I hate to break this news to you~
BUT~
Contrary to your own opinions~~~ You don't know everything .

I will no longer respond to your baited argumentative posts on this forum here.

BUIZILLA
07-14-2011, 02:18 PM
Brad... go over .org and ask Poodle to research his files on what colors the X18 jets were built in... he has ALL of the files for those

mattyboy
07-14-2011, 02:34 PM
Brad,

i would take Jim's advice have .org look it up

they'll tell you the same thing I am telling you about grumble green X 18's in 1972 or any other year for that matter.

mattyboy
07-14-2011, 02:47 PM
See what I mean ?
Still trying to pick a fight here~

Now he is the official self appointed Donzi Jet "Expert" telling us that Donzi did not build the green X-18 Berkeley/Olds 455 Jet, with twin fuel tanks that my uncle bought off the Philly boat Show floor in 1972.
There was also a Yellow Donzi 16 Jet in Ocean City NJ at that very same time.

Matty~ Donzi built many more jet-drive boats than you think YOU know about, or claim to have secret records on.

I hate to break this news to you~
BUT~
Contrary to your own opinions~~~ You don't know everything .

I will no longer respond to your baited argumentative posts on this forum here.


you'd be surprised what i know, which is enough to know you don't know.

fogducker III
07-14-2011, 03:11 PM
Brad, can you post a pic of your "family" jet X-18....? You MUST have a picture of it somewhere......?

If it was purchased brand new in 1972 and your uncle had for a while there has to be a picture somewhere....:yes:

VetteLT193
07-14-2011, 04:11 PM
The black one matty posted a link to earlier sure doesn't look black after all the paint was sanded off.

gcarter
07-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Well, I just read all of this and I don't see where Matty did anything wrong unless offering two boats for sale is "WRONG".

Brad, my Mom passed away in '81, my Dad in about '05, and my sister about 18 months ago, I understand mourning your loss. I'm the last of my family also.
Here's an idea, since your project boat is so painful to look at, why not find a good shop in your area to finish it for you? Greg may have some leads. You wouldn't have to look at it again until it's finished. You could then put it in storage if you wanted to until you're ready. And then it'd be ready to go.

Brad, you don't have any enemies here, why not stop trying to make some? Matty is a great resource, you're not helping your case by slapping him down.
It appears that you have a dream (sort of) but w/o real practical parameters. If you're just daydreaming, just say so, the rest of us can dream pretty big too.
If you want a fast boat, and an X-18, then why not re-create Mighty Mouse?
It could be done again. Arnesons don't crater so easily and are much more dependable than any outdrive you put on it. For the money you're talking about, it might even be cheaper.

Ratliff240
07-14-2011, 09:30 PM
-Greg

What is the boat in the first picture? It has awesome lines

VetteLT193
07-15-2011, 09:40 AM
Well, I just read all of this and I don't see where Matty did anything wrong unless offering two boats for sale is "WRONG".

Brad, my Mom passed away in '81, my Dad in about '05, and my sister about 18 months ago, I understand mourning your loss. I'm the last of my family also.
Here's an idea, since your project boat is so painful to look at, why not find a good shop in your area to finish it for you? Greg may have some leads. You wouldn't have to look at it again until it's finished. You could then put it in storage if you wanted to until you're ready. And then it'd be ready to go.

Brad, you don't have any enemies here, why not stop trying to make some? Matty is a great resource, you're not helping your case by slapping him down.
It appears that you have a dream (sort of) but w/o real practical parameters. If you're just daydreaming, just say so, the rest of us can dream pretty big too.
If you want a fast boat, and an X-18, then why not re-create Mighty Mouse?
It could be done again. Arnesons don't crater so easily and are much more dependable than any outdrive you put on it. For the money you're talking about, it might even be cheaper.

I'd be pretty annoyed if someone told me that they didn't make something that I had sat in and knew existed.

maybe it's a terminology thing and Donzi didn't make a "grumble" green x18 jet and it's actually some other green color, but seriously, WTF? And the icing on the cake is the comment from matty about what he knows... and how that means he knows that Brad doesn't know.

Donzis that 'don't exist' have popped up time and again in real life.

BUIZILLA
07-15-2011, 09:50 AM
Brad??

all grumble green hull? and deck?? what color interior? stripe color?

100% positive on it being an X18? or a regular 18?

what month was the Philly boat show in '72?

i'll forward the info to the Librarian

the crystal ball awaits your answer :yes:

gcarter
07-15-2011, 10:16 AM
I'd be pretty annoyed if someone told me that they didn't make something that I had sat in and knew existed.
Donzis that 'don't exist' have popped up time and again in real life.

I understand, just as you proved w/your Minx...it was WAY past the "Last" built.
Anyway, apparently the official records don't show this combination being built. But Brad knows they did.
Many of us know this isn't the first time this may have happened.

Everyone breath deep 10 times.

silverghost
07-15-2011, 12:30 PM
[quote=BUIZILLA;607629]Brad??

all grumble green hull? and deck?? what color interior? stripe color?

100% positive on it being an X18? or a regular 18?

what month was the Philly boat show in '72?
[quote/]


Jim & Guys~

This sure was an X-18 deck style .
No misake about that.
It was the only "X" style Donzi around our part of South Jersey at the time.
There were however many "classic" deck style Donzi boats around in this era, both 16 & 18 & also one red Baby 14, along with a yellow jet-drive Donzi 16: Which I saw sitting decades later in sad shape in a South Jersey boat yard just a few years back.

The boat had a White Gell bottom, Green hull sides, White Deck with Green racing stripe, & White transom.
Starboard right hand helm.
As I said this was the Philly boat show Donzi Dealer's featured Floor display boat for Longport Marine/Stone Harbor Marine (Two locations owned by the same owner at that time) who was the Philly/South Jersey Donzi dealer in this era.
In fact ~ There were reps there from Donzi Marine itself, along with the South Jersey dealer owner & his own sales reps.

My uncle bought it right off the show floor on the very first day of this show, he did not special order it.
Another unusual feature , other than the Berkeley/Olds 455 drive package was the fact that it had dual fuel tanks with dual deck fuel fills.
I had not seen another Donzi 18 hull with dual tanks unti joinig this site decades later.
Was this dalnk feature standard equipment with jet drive Donzi 18 hulls ?

Now~My Questions

Was this X-18 Jet built special by Donzi as a special Philly Boatshow floor display boat to show a jet drive X-18 could be built ?
Did Donzi rig their jet-drive boats in-house ; or send them out to another speciality jet rigger ?
Some here claim that Donzi could not rig a jet drive properly today .
OR~
Did they ship an un-powered hull out to be rigged with Jet Drive & engine power similar to what they did with the Holman Moody special edition powered boats ?
I have no idea .
Does anyone else ?
Brownie or others that worked there at Donzi pehapps would know.

It's really insulting to me to say that this boat was never built, & never existed, when my uncle bought it new & owned it for five years.
And~
I was the one who drove it the most of anyone in our family.
Heck~ all my summer job money paid for the gasoline to run it.

This Donzi started my lifelong obsession with the Donzi X-18 Berkeley/Olds 455 jets & Donzi boats in general.
Why else would I still want a Donzi jet drive today; all these years later with all the other I/O Donzis that are availale for a resonable price on the market today?
Jets have severe limitations~
But they handle unlike any other Donzi.

I was crushed when my uncle sold it after our fifth summer season without offering it to my Dad & I first.
We would have bought it in a heartbeat.
We really never forgave him for this .
I have been looking for a Donzi 18/X18 jet ever since that sad day~ with sadly no luck.

You CANNOT tell me that this boat NEVER existed~
What an insult & slap in the face.

The Philly Boatshow at the old demolishd Civic Center has been dead now for many years but it was heald sometime in the late winter time period ; just before spring.
This Donzi X-18 Jet was bought new in 1972.


I remember hauling sailboats there to that very show for my old high school frend John Weiss , His Dad owned Sailboat Headquarters in Southampon Pa. who sold Sailfish, Sunfish, Scorpions, , O'Day sailers etc.

Believe me~
This X-18 Jet Donzi EXISTED !

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 01:01 PM
Brad Jim,



look at hulls 8 and 13 the only 2 grumble green X 18 made in 72 both i/o not a jet one Holman moody one chris craft.
one sold to the dealler cooper and one to south river

there was hull 12 sold 5-72 to the dealer stone harbor the boat was the chicken boat color scheme white bottom black sides white deck and inca gold stripe. powered by a 320 hp chris craft i/o with a volvo 270 drive the next boat stone harbor bought 6-72 was a tangerine 235 hp HM volvo boat hull 22


and please let me know if I am just pulling **** out of my azzzzzzz or this is the case.


insulting ??????saying someone as issues is not insulting, please give me a break

silverghost
07-15-2011, 01:06 PM
Jim~
As additional proof that we did once own this X-18 Donzi Berkeley Jet/Olds 455 Jim (Buizilla)can vouch for the fact that I sent him photos in 2009 of our old spare junkyard core Olds 455 spare engine we bought for this old jet Donzi when he possibly had some interest in buying it for his car resto project.
We also spoke on the phone at that time , as did Lenny.
It turned out it did not have the head casting numbers he was seeking.

Remember that Jim ?

Lenny was partly involved. with some chrome 18 deck vents & lifting rings & bezels for our benchseat 18 project as a partial trade.

In fact~
The old Olds 455 Engine For Sale ad is still posted here on this forum.
&
I STILL have this engine sitting in my garage.
We bought this old Olds 455 junkyard core engine as a back-up spare for the X-18 jet in the early 1970s.
My uncle sold the boat out from under us~
But I have still kept this spare engine all these years in hope that some day I would find another Donzi 18/X-18 jet.
Why else would I have kept that old Olds 455 engine all these years ?

The Olds 455 is not really a "Big Block" like the MK IV & V, VI Chevy in true terms. It is the standard Olds V-8 that bored-out.

Photo Proof~
I am sure my late Father has some photos of this X-18 Donzi Jet around here somewhere.
If he were alive & here today I know he could put his hands right on them~
I will now have to look for them.

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 01:12 PM
the first search for grumble green 72 jet x 18 turned up ungattz angool

I'll now refine the search to any color jet X18 and unrigged boats sold to that dealer see what that turns up then expand to other years and models and see if they made any other grumble green jets.

be back shortly.

the green changed in the early 70's and grumble turned to lettuce a lighter shade then green went away and gray and gold took over. so the search continues to expand.

BUIZILLA
07-15-2011, 01:20 PM
Brad, i'm not here to fight with you at all... as stated, 8 and 13 match your color combo exactly, so says the Librarian, BUT they both had Volvo's.... that was it for GG in 1972, period, done, and over..

every card exists for the X18's I am told, a couple cards are blank, but NOT in 1972, muchhhh later in history

pic's would be great

and, yes, we did discuss the Olds parts and casting # time frames

once again, i'm not picking a fight with anybody, but you would be shocked, from what I have been told, how accurate (99%) this DMRS Library is...

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 01:22 PM
Brad
perhaps your memory is not quite right could it be another year or possibly another color and your confusing the two???

there was an all inca gold bottom white deck inca gold stripe unrigged boat sold around that time but I believe the dealer was 1000s of miles away from south jersey/philly the dealer was venice.

silverghost
07-15-2011, 01:23 PM
The other question about this X-18 jet

Did Stone Harbor Marine/ Longport Marine actually own this boat themselves ?
OR~
Did the Donzi Factory own it and bring it to the Donzi show booth for display & a possible sale by their local dealer: in this case Stone Harbor/ Lonport Marine ?
Also~
Could the hull side color & deck stripe have been changed just for this special Philly Boat Show Display ?

I have no idea~
Does anyone else ?

gcarter
07-15-2011, 01:24 PM
Is it even remotely possible it might have been a '71?

If so, I can think of a lot of reasons why that may have happened.
This sort of thing happens w/limited production exotic cars all the time.

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 01:28 PM
Brad, i'm not here to fight with you at all... as stated, 8 and 13 match your color combo exactly, so says the Librarian, BUT they both had Volvo's.... that was it for GG in 1972, period, done, and over..

every card exists for the X18's I am told, a couple cards are blank, but NOT in 1972, muchhhh later in history

pic's would be great

and, yes, we did discuss the Olds parts and casting # time frames

once again, i'm not picking a fight with anybody, but you would be shocked, from what I have been told, how accurate (99%) this DMRS Library is...


Thank you Jim


8 and 13 match grumble green volvo boats still no jets!!!!!!!!!!!

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 01:32 PM
Is it even remotely possible it might have been a '71?

If so, I can think of a lot of reasons why that may have happened.
This sort of thing happens w/limited production exotic cars all the time.


the first x shows up early 72 hull 4( 3-72) is the first jet 496 flag jet again chicken boat colors

white bottom black sides white deck inga gold stripe

this boat has a criminal past

silverghost
07-15-2011, 01:33 PM
Is it even remotely possible it might have been a '71?

If so, I can think of a lot of reasons why that may have happened.
This sort of thing happens w/limited production exotic cars all the time.

The boat sure was Green on it's hull sides.~
No mistake about that.

Now as to the exact year~
I have always believed it was 72, and have stated so many times here. but it may POSSIBLY have been 71.
It could NOT have been later than 72 because I graduated from High School in 72 & had friends down Ocean City NJ for a grduation party /sleep-over. & we used the X-18 jet.

When were the "X" deck Donzi boats first built ?
I remember the "X" style deck was a BIG selling feature, as was the Berkeley/Olds 455 Jet package by the guys in that show booth at this time.

I

BUIZILLA
07-15-2011, 01:39 PM
Brad, this first GG X18 ever built #8 was invoiced on May 5 1972... wayyy after the Philly 72 Show

#13 was invoiced on June 15 1972

#8 had an Inca gold deckstripe

#13 had a GG deck stripe

the Librarian is checking to see when the first Olds jet X18 was produced and the color combo

silverghost
07-15-2011, 02:10 PM
Is it possible that this X-18 in question was an early pre-production boat built by Donzi especially for the boat show circuit ?
A way for Donzi Marine to wave the Donzi flag , get excitment going, & have something NEW & SPECIAL for the boatshow circuit ?

I'm not claiming it was built for this~
I have no real idea.

But I do know that the guys in that show booth claimed that this was a NEW Donzi model with a NEW unique drive package for Donzi.
They seemed very excited about the new "X" boat , and also it's new Jet Drive power.
It was also said at that time to have been displayed at other big boat shows before & slightly after the Philly Boat Show.
It was delivered in early June just after school went out for the Summer Vacation.
My Uncle as per sales agreement allowed this boat to be shown at other boat shows prior to being delivered to the Ocean City lagoon front boat slip.

What exactly does "X" mean ?
In most all Industry (Auto & Aviation)
"X" means experimental.

Could this have been a special styling exercise to test the market waters & see potential new customer's reactions at these various shows~ sort of like GM's Motoramma show cars ?

They badly wanted my uncle to put one on special order~
They did NOT want to sell him this show boat.
My uncle insisted he wanted it NOW for that Summer season.
As a result they would not deal & budge much off of suggested factory LIST price.
I believe they threw-in the trailer.

Surely someone from the old Donzi Marine Factory, who worked for Donzi at this time period MUST remember this "X-18 Jet" green & white Show Boat?

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 03:03 PM
Brad,

so all along I've been telling you the truth and you get insulted by it, but I have issues???


for the record

the first olds 455 jet X 18 was hull 27 built and sold 8-72 white bottom light blue sides white deck light blue stripe the next 455 olds jet was hull 40 white bottom blue sides white deck blue stripe 10-72 the next olds 455 jet hull 44 yellow and white 11-72, then we jump to hul 62 4-73 again yellow and white repeat this for hull 68 5-73 then onto hull 79 in 8-73 but light blue and white pretty much wraps up jet x 18 production.

silverghost
07-15-2011, 03:21 PM
How does the black or dark colored side X-18 jet that is posted here on this forum site earlier with photos fit into the existing known jet records ?

Are there other Donzis, not necessarily jets, that have popped-up over the years here in which no factory records seem to exist today ?

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 03:30 PM
Brad , so you definetly say it's a X 18 deck style, a jet and definetly green sides definetly 72??

checking other possibilities
maybe a regular 18 2+3??

from 69 to 72 they built around 4 hulls with grumble green variations all were I/Os no jets

they did make some 455 olds jet 2+3 the first was 2-73 sold to the dealer Auger no color denoted. between that boat and june of 74 3 more 455 olds jet 18 2+3 were made two red and one yellow.

sorry not starting anything buy your stories and posts don't jive. from here on out I am from Missouri with you " show me"

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 03:39 PM
How does the black or dark colored side X-18 jet that is posted here on this forum site earlier with photos fit into the existing known jet records ?

Are there other Donzis, not necessarily jets, that have popped-up over the years here in which no factory records seem to exist today ?

I'd be happy to answer any questions I can that the owner of that boat might have about their donzi

silverghost
07-15-2011, 03:48 PM
It sure was a green sided & white deck & bottom "X"-18 Berkeley.Olds 455 jet.
NO mistake about those facts at all .
It is burned into my mind.

I know the 2+3 "classic" style boat deck, like my yellow benchseat project.
It was not the standard 2+3 flat deck style.

Now the date has to be 1972 or 71 .
Could not have been much later than 72 in my memory.
I had always thought it was 1972, and always maintained that here~ but it was a long long time ago.

BUIZILLA
07-15-2011, 03:51 PM
It sure was a green sided & white deck & bottom "X"-18 Berkeley.Olds 455 jet.
NO mistake about those facts at all .
It is burned into my mind. Brad... what color was the deck stripe ??

silverghost
07-15-2011, 03:51 PM
Have other Donzi boats popped-up on this, or donzi.org, in which no factory build record cards seem to exist ?

I'd bet that they have ?

silverghost
07-15-2011, 03:58 PM
Brad... what color was the deck stripe ??

Jim~
It was a green Donzi racing deck stripe.
This appered to be slowly fading as time went on (5=years) as compared to the hull side green color.

Transom was white, along with the bottom.

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 04:07 PM
I would say that was so until about the time frame that you are talking about the fall of 72 is when the HIN needed to be stamped hull so the paper work and boats was pretty complete. plus those types of boats don't get sold thru a dealer at a show they usually are one offs for people like the chisholms or a well know employee . they surface later and usually show plaques or plates as such.

silverghost
07-15-2011, 04:13 PM
I would say that was so until about the time frame that you are talking about the fall of 72 is when the HIN needed to be stamped hull so the paper work and boats was pretty complete. plus those types of boats don't get sold thru a dealer at a show they usually are one offs for people like the chisholms or a well know employee . they surface later and usually show plaques or plates as such.

Matty~
May be a clue here, or not~
I don't know~
But there was no HIN number on the starboard top side of the transom that I EVER remember seeing on this old X-18 jet

My yellow benchseat 18 project has no HIM # at all also.
It was once a Holman Moody edition boat.

I think you told me IT was a 1972 model also ?

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 04:15 PM
Jim~
It was a green Donzi racing deck stripe.
This appered to be slowly fading as time went on (5=years) as compared to the hull side green color.

Transom was white, along with the bottom.


Never seen a dark colored hull side over white bottom with an all white transom usually they were same color as the sides to the water line stripe then white below that . That would lead me to think the boat was painted or had extensive transom work done and was painted to cover it up ( the kind of work that would be needed to convert a I/O to jet.

so the boat could have been modified from how it left the factory or it could be some kind of splash.

what state was the boat registered in???

silverghost
07-15-2011, 04:21 PM
Never seen a dark colored hull side over white bottom with an all white transom usually they were same color as the sides to the water line stripe then white below that . That would lead me to think the boat was painted or had extensive transom work done and was painted to cover it up ( the kind of work that would be needed to convert a I/O to jet.

so the boat could have been modified from how it left the factory or it could be some kind of splash.

what state was the boat registered in???


Matty~
It was not a splash as this was a Donzi dealer booth that had other Donzi boats displayed along with it.

The transom was all white~
AND~
I believe it was ALL Gell and no paint.
The boat sat in the saltwater all summer long.
I doubt the available paint in the day then would hold up under long term water immersion ?

New Jersey was the registered & licenced state~

I seem to remember NJ 883 and then a single letter after this number possibly M ?
But this is streaching my memory a bit.

mattyboy
07-15-2011, 04:27 PM
Matty~
May be a clue here, or not~
I don't know~
But there was no HIN number on the starboard top side of the transom that I EVER remember seeing on this old X-18 jet

My yellow benchseat 18 project has no HIM # at all also.
It was once a Holman Moody edition boat.

I think you told me IT was a 1972 model also ?


sorry Brad my so called records and cyrstal ball are having ~issues~ . I thought you were not going to respond to me any more just like the phone call I put into you yesterday with no return call ??????

sorry I'm done with you

silverghost
07-15-2011, 04:48 PM
Now what brought that on after we have been posting back & forth nicely today ?

I thought we were trying to get to the bottom of this stickey issue peacefully today.

I was mad as a Hornet yesterday when my creditabilty & integrity was all but questioned.

Maybe I over reacted to everyone's posts~
Especially Matty's

IF I did~~~
&
I am sorry for my web outbursts yesterday.

I was in no mood to argue with you Matty, or anyone,
on the phone yesterday.
That's why I did not return your phone call yesterday.

I, at the very least, needed a cooling-off period.

As I have stated before there must be some former worker at Donzi that remembers this green X-18 Philly Boat Show Boat ?

Greg Guimond
07-15-2011, 05:42 PM
lets get ready to grumble ............:tongue:

osur866
07-15-2011, 05:43 PM
The show me state, yep the proof is in the pudding :) Matty didn't know we where neighbors? Sweet!!!!

osur866
07-15-2011, 05:43 PM
:popcorn:
lets get ready to grumble ............:tongue:

dsparis
07-15-2011, 06:38 PM
Green hull sides and a white transom hmmmmmmmm. Anyone ever see a classic that the sides and transom didnt match from the factory?

BUIZILLA
07-15-2011, 08:24 PM
#13 had a GG deck stripe
there was ONLY one built like this color combo and it was a Volvo


Jim~
It was a green Donzi racing deck stripe.
Transom was white, along with the bottom.green deck stripe confirms #13 with a Volvo

and, like the others, a white transom and colored sides is something i've never seen before

mrfixxall
07-15-2011, 11:42 PM
I thought Donzi josh just sold parts???? Does he sell whole boats to?

And SG, i thought that 455 olds motor came out of a wrecked car that one of your relatives had?? and not a junk yard.

just askin:boggled:

silverghost
07-16-2011, 12:15 AM
I thought Donzi josh just sold parts???? Does he sell whole boats to?

And SG, i thought that 455 olds motor came out of a wrecked car that one of your relatives had?? and not a junk yard.

just askin:boggled:

Fixx~
The engine came out of Flemmings junkyard in NJ
in the 70s.
It was bought as a spare rebuildable core for the X-18 Berkeley Jet.
It has been sitting around for decades.
It was first stored in my uncle's garage for years & then moved to Dad's garage here in Pa.
No famiy members EVER had any Olds with a 455 engine.
Search my old Olds 455 engine "For Sale ad" posted here several years ago.
Photos of this 455 core engine are posted there also .

mrfixxall
07-16-2011, 12:33 AM
Greg so what is the boat with the 2 eggbeaters?


matty,, its a Howard 23' offshore...had to look twice,,looks almost like a switzer 24..

http://www.chooseyouritem.com/boats/photos/251500/251590.1989.Switzer.Craft.SS-240.Offshore.jpg

Donzi_Dude
07-16-2011, 07:51 AM
I understand, just as you proved w/your Minx...it was WAY past the "Last" built.
Anyway, apparently the official records don't show this combination being built. But Brad knows they did.
Many of us know this isn't the first time this may have happened.

Everyone breath deep 10 times.


maybe it time the peeps understand the "official record" aint all that.

:wink:

but then the guru's just could not accept that.

Donzi_Dude
07-16-2011, 07:57 AM
See what I mean ?
Still trying to pick a fight here~

Now he is the official self appointed Donzi Jet "Expert" telling us that Donzi did not build the green X-18 Berkeley/Olds 455 Jet, with twin fuel tanks that my uncle bought off the Philly boat Show floor in 1972.
There was also a Yellow Donzi 16 Jet in Ocean City NJ at that very same time.

Matty~ Donzi built many more jet-drive boats than you think YOU know about, or claim to have secret records on.

I hate to break this news to you~
BUT~
Contrary to your own opinions~~~ You don't know everything .

I will no longer respond to your baited argumentative posts on this forum here.


strange how when you where standing on the other side of the fence you felt the need to pile on.


think about it!

BUIZILLA
07-16-2011, 08:06 AM
maybe it time the peeps understand the "official record" aint all that.

:wink:

but then the guru's just could not accept that. until it can be proved wrong, the documentation we have is correct

if you think it's wrong, then prove it

otherwise...

:lookaroun:

Donzi_Dude
07-16-2011, 08:15 AM
until it can be proved wrong, the documentation we have is correct

if you think it's wrong, then prove it

otherwise...

:lookaroun:


i have no interst in proving it or arguing with a bunch of rigid piles...

others that dont have a face to save can see the light.

BUIZILLA
07-16-2011, 08:34 AM
i have no interst in proving it or arguing with a bunch of rigid piles...

others that dont have a face to save can see the light. once again, you've proved to be a pointless troll with no facts

if you have any proof, spit it out, we're all ears, otherwise read the above sentence again

mattyboy
07-16-2011, 10:29 AM
Thanks Fixx nice looking boats

osur, I do have some family that live there not to far from LOTO hopefully I will get out there with hornet . we owe them a visit.


as far as the transoms go the older boats that were two colored . they had the color of the side on the top of the transom and the white bottom
the newer boats had the transom all the same color as the sides not the bottom and I need not mention that solid hull color. I have not found the demarcation point on this change but I wll eventually get there as have with things like the lion and dolphin over the flags.


I have pics of this transom thing at work and will post them up when i am there on tuesday.
pics and supporting facts are a great thing.

silverghost
07-16-2011, 02:39 PM
strange how when you where standing on the other side of the fence you felt the need to pile on.
think about it!


Guys~

Just think about how I feel right now ?
And~ Why I am upset & mad.

Since I first joined this website after first buying our benchseat 18 project I have been talking about my uncle's old Donzi X-18 Berkeley/Olds 455 jet.
That is THE boat that started my love affair for Donzi boats.
I also stated that I was crushed when after five seasons my uncle secretly sold the X-18 jet without telling Dad & I.
Also at that time, when I first signed-up here, I started running "Wanted Ads" here stating that I was looking to buy an X-18 or 18 Jet drive Donzi.
Heck~ I would also take a jet 16 .
I have always hoped to replace that boat with another Donzi Jet .
I have always known that they were very rare & drove like no other Donzi.
I have also known first hand that they have many limitations over an I/O Donzi. They are not a rough water boat by any means.
That's why they never caught on and were not successful sellers; and so few were ever made in the first place.
They also cost a bit more when new in their day..

Now ask yourself~
How many Donzi owners here would actually want
a Donzi Jet today knowing a jet-drive's limitations ?
Not many I'd bet ?

And why the heck do you think that I kept that old Olds 455 junk-core engine sitting around for almost forty years ?
To me my hope, and yes ~~~Dream was to find & BUY another Jet-Drive Donzi X-18 or 18 to replace my uncle's old Donzi X-18 that I always loved to drive as a teenager.
There are plenty of other jet-drive boats to buy out there~~~and cheap.
Few seem to want a jet-boat today.

But WE had a Donzi X-18 jet and I want another one today to replace the one that was sold after five short wonderful years by my uncle.

Now I have constantly told everyone how that boat was configured. I told everyone it's color combination & options.
Twin fuel tanks & two deck fuel fills.
I also told everyone how & where my uncle bought that X-18 Donzi Jet-boat~
At the Philly Boat Show floor Donzi booth run by Donzi & Stone Harbor Marine/Longport Marine.

Now today all these 35 + years later I, and everyone else, is being told that the "Build Record Cards" do not show that this boat was ever built in the first place
& thus~
If the surviving existing records don't show it~

Donzi NEVER BUILT such a boat .

Really ???

I am again flatly telling everyone here that this Green Donzi X-18 Berkeley/Olds 455 jet-drive~~~
DID EXIST .
And~
I'd bet it is still out there somewhere .
I'd also bet that some day it will pop-up someplace.

Why does it not appear on the existing old build cards ?
I have NO IDEA ?

It sounds to me that this was some sort of Boat Show Boat built by Donzi to showcase the new "X" 18 hull and new Olds 455/Berkeley jet-drive package ?
Who Knows for sure ?~
Someone does I'd bet.

Again perhapps some former surviving worker at Donzi Marine in this era will be able to tell us all more about the beginning of the "X" 18 model line & the Jet-drives ?
And hopefully can confirm for EVERYONE"S satisfaction the build & showing of this Green "X" 18 jet that my uncle once owned.

To the dis-believers out there~
You will believe what you want to believe no matter WHAT I try to tell you.
The existing records seem to be like the ten commandments to you;
carved in stone.
Despite the fact that a few other boats are already known to exist today that are not on your factory build cards.
Why are they NOT on those cards ?
Do these boats not exist ?

But in the end~
What will you say if & when this boat in question pops-up ?

And~
What will you say when I find my late Father's photo prints, or Kodachrome color slides, of this jet Donzi that I know he has stashed around his old house here smewhere ?
Will you then accuse me of photo-shopping and faking these photos ?

To sum it up
In short~

I just don't like to have my credability & integrity challenged all over this site when I tell you that this Green "X"-18 Berkeley? Olds 455 jet-drive DID really exist; and I drove it for five entire summers.

And everyone wonders why I am upset & angry ?

Would YOU not be upset & angry if YOU were in MY position ?

Pile-On now all you wish.

I'm not running away and hiding away anywhere .

I'll still be here~
&
I'll still be posting about that old X-18 Donzi jet-drive that your factory build record cards SAY never was built by Donzi or never existed..

gcarter
07-16-2011, 03:51 PM
Brad, I wouldn't be angry, but that's just me.
My memory isn't as sharp as it once was and I find the way I remember things and reality may have changed over the decades.....I hate it when that happens! Why not admit you have no way of knowing the true history of the boat and that it could have been significantly different than from the day it left Florida?

zelatore
07-16-2011, 03:55 PM
Oh hell, I might as well get in on this fun too.

My assumption is that the boat of course existed. I'm sure he's not inventing the boat just for kicks. What would be the point?

If the build records don't show it as Brad remembers, then perhaps it wasn't actually 'grumble green' but another color that was similar or perhaps Brad's memories from all those years ago aren't 100% accurate on some of the little details. Again, I don't suspect Brad of BS on this point and believe he's telling us exactly what he remembers.

Another theory, one that may be supported by the boat having been a show centerpiece, is that the boat was custom rigged by the dealer and was originally sold by Donzi as a bare hull. In that case there wouldn't be an official record of it having been built as Brad describes it. That could easily account for factory colors like grumble green but a non-standard scheme with the transom being white. A dealer would of course have access to OEM colors and could do whatever he wanted.

Brad, keep looking for those old photos. I'll bet you've got them somewhere. It would be good for posterity to post a few pics. Even cooler would be if your uncle had some of his original purchase documents, but I'd have to assume those are long gone. That of course would have been the real clincher as they would have likely called out any special builds or paint/gel work as line-items. But I wouldn't expect you to remember anything like that as you were just a kid when the boat was purchased and not directly involved. I would imagine you were more interested in the cool factor than any special build info on the boat at that time.

RedDog
07-16-2011, 04:20 PM
FWIW - Ittifli 's (Byron) dad has a jet 18 or is it an X? Make him an offer he can't refuse

silverghost
07-16-2011, 04:21 PM
Just to check those old factory build cards again.

I have also kept telling everyone here that at about this very same time frame, or slightly later a few years, there was also a Donzi Berkeley Jet-Drive 16 on the Sunny Harbor lagoon . This was the next lagoon over from our place at that time in Ocean City NJ.
The owners lived on Walnut Street.

That jet-drive Donzi 16 was YELLOW & I believe was bought at the very same Donzi dealer.

Does a build card exist for that YELLOW jet-drive 16 ?

Another member on this forum here from Longport NJ, just across fron Ocean Cty NJ Island remembers that exact Yellow Donzi jet-boat~
I think he said it was named "Tiny Tim"
The kid who owned it was a big blonde 250+ pound guy slightly older than me at this time ?
Was HE "Tiny Tim" also ?

Just for the heck of it~
Let's try to locate records on that YELLOW Donzi 16 jet-drive boat in those old factory build cards.

I saw this boat about 7-8 years ago in a local South Jersey boatyard.
It was in very sad shape at that time.
I missed buying it by one day as it was advertised in Salty Dog & Boat Shopper ; and I went with cash in hand to look at, and actully BUY it, on a Sunday~.
The boat yard was closed.
When I called them, early Monday morning it had already been sold.
I've got the sale advert around here somewhere in a pile of papers
.
Just for fun~~~
&
A factory build card check ~~~
why not try to identify that jet boat ?

Does IT still exist today ?
I'm betting it does still exist also.

BUIZILLA
07-16-2011, 04:27 PM
give me an EXACT time frame and i'll have the Librarian check the records for the 16 jet..

i'll also have him check for the first X18 that was sold to Stone Harbor and get back to you

the cards reflect a build that was INVOICED, and the date so done, so the records there can't lie...

silverghost
07-16-2011, 04:38 PM
give me an EXACT time frame and i'll have the Librarian check the records for the 16 jet..

i'll also have him check for the first X18 that was sold to Stone Harbor and get back to you

the cards reflect a build that was INVOICED, and the date so done, so the records there can't lie...

Jim~
Thank's for your records help.
I cannot be exact on the yellow 16 jet-boat's dates~
Let just say from 1972-1977.
Sorry I cannot pin this one down closer~
As It was not our family's boat.
But It DID also exist in that same era .

Thank's

BUIZILLA
07-16-2011, 04:55 PM
you want us to research 5 years Donzi history looking for 1 hull?

how about getting us within 1 year..........................

Carl C
07-16-2011, 05:00 PM
I'd probably be upset and that was a well written post. Thanks for keeping it cordial.

I can lock this thread u know ;)

silverghost
07-16-2011, 05:06 PM
you want us to research 5 years Donzi history looking for 1 hull?

how about getting us within 1 year..........................

Yea~
I know it must be a pain in the butt to look though all those old record cards.
But~
I cannot pin this one down any closer than that as this is from my memory & it was not our Donzi.
It was in the local waters the same gneral time as my uncle's old "X" 18 Donzi Jet.

I know it was a Donzi jet & yellow but do not remember any more details of deck, interior, or bottom , color etc.

Jim~ If it's too much of a pain in the butt to research this jet-boat~
Forget it~
It's just not that important.

mattyboy
07-16-2011, 11:22 PM
:rlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY

Walt. H.
07-17-2011, 02:08 AM
I love that song!

mattyboy
07-17-2011, 07:11 AM
back to the transom thing

thanks to Carl, here is the newer transom all the same color as the sides, these are white bottoms so this leads me to think the change is very late in production possibly when they made the move to paint?? something else to research. the mid 90's blackhawk le had the two tone transom so that narrows that down

http://www.donzi.net/forums/album.php?albumid=6&pictureid=1592



here is a 89 18

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39193&d=1222888980

mattyboy
07-17-2011, 07:44 AM
like to bring up this to maybe to shed some light about how we remember things . I was at the bar a year or so ago a friend who has since past and I were talking about the Donzi on the lake. The chicken boat came up. He remembers the boat very well was a next door neighbor, took the owners daughter skiing off it for many summers was the nicest blue donzi he had ever seen. He was very convinced that he remembers the boat and it was blue after much discussion that night and a pass by the next day . He confirmed it was black , he said he would swear in court the boat was blue.

I never questioned the boat or the poster's integrity I questioned the color.
But one thing this little jaunt down memory lane has done is brought a couple of very special donzi to my attention. also as a note if they did something special or experimental they marked it on the build cards.

THEY ARE CALLED BUILD CARDS FOR A REASON

now I have a question what several boats have surfaced that exist but don't appear in documentation???

gcarter
07-17-2011, 08:25 AM
here is a 89 18

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39193&d=1222888980

And that's the way my Minx was finished.

Greg Guimond
07-17-2011, 08:36 AM
I agree with you Matty on the value and accuracy of the factory documentation, but I can't imagine that Brad is mixing up the colors on a boat that was a part of the family fun for years. On the issue of photos, when I purchased my 1976 16 OB Baby back in 1980 and for the five years I owned it there were a bunch of pictures taken. To this day, I can't find one darn photo of the original Surface Tension, although I remember the candy cane interior and the Evinrude 235 on the back like it was yesterday.

mattyboy
07-17-2011, 09:00 AM
yes george that was the standard on two toned hulls for the longest time.


Things to keep in mind in the early 70's they were making ALOT of boats
in 72 in alot of different models. they made 49 X 18 alone in 72 .
the idea that a special one was made with no documentation to tell the plant to break their routine is a little far fetched. yes a routine you don't start and finish and sell boats in a week or two with out getting into a routine.

production numbers on 72 just counting the small classics 16 and 18 leave out the rest for now.

16 baby 25 hulls
16 skisporter 25 hulls
18 2+3 30 hulls
corsican 1 hull
x 18 49 hulls

thats 130 hulls over a year that averages over 10 boats a month in just those models. every mold but the corsican was getting a work out.

I would have loved to been a fly on the wall, that place must have looked like a benny hill chase scene or a cat trying to bury **** on a marble floor.

then add the other models into the fray and the idea that they built one just for the heck of it or an employee was working on their boat doesn't really fly either well maybe a corsican . the molds and the workers didn't have enuff down time. I mean they were averaging almost one x 18 a week

Greg Guimond
07-17-2011, 09:07 AM
Interesting feedback on the level of activity at the plant. I guess that leaves quite a conundrum on the table to be sorted out. Certainly one of the better threads on the board in a long time.

Greg Guimond
07-17-2011, 09:27 AM
Conundrum aside Brad, are you willing to carry on with no performance boat at the dock for the rest of 2011? With the days we have had lately I would be pulling my hair out if I had no boat. (Well, I just blew a powerhead so I will be pulling my hair out :( anyone have a clean Yamaha 250 for sale?) It'll be 90 degrees and sunny today, again!

I can't believe you have not bought something :yes: It is amazing what is out there for sale right now. All great stuff.

mattyboy
07-17-2011, 09:48 AM
I agree with you Matty on the value and accuracy of the factory documentation, but I can't imagine that Brad is mixing up the colors on a boat that was a part of the family fun for years. On the issue of photos, when I purchased my 1976 16 OB Baby back in 1980 and for the five years I owned it there were a bunch of pictures taken. To this day, I can't find one darn photo of the original Surface Tension, although I remember the candy cane interior and the Evinrude 235 on the back like it was yesterday.


Greg,

I am not saying the boat wasn't green and that it didn't exist . I am saying it didn't leave the factory that way and from the description given the boat was modified by someone.I had a friend who lived next to one hung lift for over 20 years he swore a black boat was blue. can a dark gel be mistaken for another color??

there are alot of possibilties here

could his memory be off a year
could a black boat that sat in salt and sun for years look like dark green??
was the boat really gel or could it have been paint.
these things are not possible???

but it is possible for a boat to get out of the factory and be sold in public by a dealer with representatives from Donzi at the show with out any paper work when the paper work on that model as no missing info or gaps??

I have a question ?? why does it seem brad's memory is better now in 2011 then it was in 2009 . his early posts here mention the boat as a warter jet X18 then, now it was 72 at the philly show it was a 455 olds berkley it was green it was bought from this dealer? He obiviously found something to jar his memory. He has edited post in 2011 that were originally posted in 2009 so something must have made him feel the need to update the info on an old thread?

I have shared as much info as I possibly can here and only seem to get thrown under the bus by this guy.

silverghost
07-17-2011, 02:11 PM
The X-18 was & colored & configured as I described.
My Uncle bought it at the Philly boat show in 72 as I have stated~~~
Did Donzi itself, or the Dealer, own that boat on the Philly show floor ?
I have no clue ?
That said ~~could it have been actully built in 71 ?
Or was it possibly one of the first Donzi prototype "X" 18s built with the Olds 455/Berkeley water jet ?
Again I have no idea.

Could Berkeley themselves have rigged this boat ?
I saw on someone else's jet Donzi post here a mention that their boat had a Jet Specialitys sticker on their boat.
Who were they ?
Could they have possibly rigged some of the early Donzi jets ?
Again I have no idea ?
Was this boat rigged with this unique water jet power package at the Donzi factory~
Or rigged by an outside sub-contractor just like the Hollman-Moody editions ?
Again I do not know ?

But~
I did nail down the Donzi dealer Longport/Stone Harbor Marine . They owned both South Jersey locations.
Ask yourself ~
How would I know that fact ?
How did I know WHO was the South Jersey Donzi dealer in those 1970 days ?
Well~
We used their Longport NJ location for inside winter storage & jet pump repair after my cousins sucked-up shells in low water and damaged the jet pump's impeller & wear band thrust collar.
I later took-over all engine & drive repairs & winterizing during the family's ownership.

I also told everyone here, and on Donzi.org , that this X-18 jet had TWO fuel tanks & deck fills with a three way fuel valve; which I think surprised many folks.
It was a shock to many here.
It has since been discovered by me that some others, if not all of the known 18 & X18 jets had two fuel tanks.

Now was this green color Gell or paint ?
I don't know~
I always thought it was gell .
My question~
Did anyone use paint on boat hulls in this era ?
Again~I don't know ?
I thought most all were gell.
Would the available paint of this 1970s era hold up during five-six months of constant saltwater exposure.
Remember we always put this boat, and in fact ALL our boats, in the water in early May~~~and pulled her for the winter in early October.
Could the 1970s era paint wave withstood this constant salt-water immersion?
We saw no blistering, flaking, or any damage to the hull sides.
We did have gell oxidation & fading on the deck & racing stripe as I mentioned to Jim.
But I do not remember any oxidation ever on the hull sides.

Matty~
Again maybe I over reacted to your posts.
I took them as you saying that I was either crazy or a B.S. artist & the boat never existed.
I hate B.S. Artists~ as do most others .
This upset & angered me~~ to say the very least .
It appears I mis-undertood your intent.
Sorry for lashing-out at you.~~~but I mis-took your post as a personal attack on my integrity and responded in kind.
Re-read all my past posts about the old X-18 jet since I first joined here. You will see there really are no inconsistant posts.
As time went on my later posts gave more details.

And again~
Why the heck would I keep that old Olds 455 junk-core engine sitting around since the 1970s ?
They were hard to find in those days~
We wanted a spare engine for the X-18.
Later after my Uncle sold the "X" 18 jet I always dreamed of buying MY OWN Donzi 18 or "X" 18 jet some day and kept that big old lump of iron sitting around.
Still have it sitting in Dad's garage toay.
Sadly for all my years of looking no Donzi 18 or "X" 18 jet has turned up for me.
The only Donzi jet I ever found was that yellow 16 some years back~~~
And by the time I spotted the for sale adverts~~~ it had sadly already been sold .

Donzi_Dude
07-17-2011, 02:46 PM
SG,

hes a suggestion.

pay a reputable builder to finish you boat. i dont think you would have trouble and i could give you a few names.

seems you want unique.

mattyboy
07-18-2011, 10:08 AM
Brad


what info do you have on holman moody editions being rigged by holman moody??? that is not accurate.

again what boats popped up that exist but no paperwork does???

silverghost
07-18-2011, 11:16 PM
Matty~
In your post 152 you mentioned that I called our boat a "warter jet" and in alater post a Berkeley jet.

Heck that was a stupid typing mistake~A Typo~ It should have read
" water jet ".
My big fat fingers on my wireless keyboard at fault there in that original post .

re: Holman-Moody~
I was under the impression from reading other posts here, & other sites, that Holmam-Moody was shipped boats to be rigged by them.
If Donzi actually rigged ALL the Holman-Moody edition boats I was in error here.

YOU would surely know if Donzi rigged these Holman-Moody boats in house.

re: Missing Boat Records~
Other posters on this site stated that some Minx & Critters, as well as some others do not show-up on the factory build records~
I was merely repeating what they had already said here~
I have no info on this first hand myself.
Again~
I am no Donzi production historian.
Don't claim to be one.

mattyboy
07-19-2011, 07:10 AM
Brad to answer some of your questions

how would you know what dealer?? you obviously learned from your friend and did some research on the dealers trying to find your boat .

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59036

you have learned doing more research finding your boat that the boat your uncle had was an X 18 not just an 18 and not a 60 vintage classic but a 72.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58757

this is the way things go. the story on my 16 was different from when I first bought it to when I sold it. the puzzle comes together things that were thought fact proved false and things not more than rumors proven true.

Donzi rigged almost all of their boats, there were boats that were not rigged and sent to different dealers and other institutions. That was my point bringing up Holman Moody. they did re-power and re-rig existing boats like mine but as far as HM boats coming from the factory, Donzi rigged them. HM did have a boat or two sent directly to them but that was an exception and also noted on the records. The boats that were unrigged were duely noted on the records and more important than how to build it was who was going to pay for it. If a boat went to berkley for them to rig it would be noted, as are other rare prototype boats of that time period that went to someone else to setup and rig.

The boats missing off of the records?? a minx is right in the middle of an ownership change, and a production location change, some of the records are gone especially from the OMC era. The minx had a few boats made after the known records ended .
The critter I would doubt would be missing . maybe missed marked, mis-filed or not noted as happens when one set of records is started for a model of a certain length that has multiple body styles. The 22 criterions f 22 22 2+3 or the 24 and it's several models. In some cases new files were added after a few boats were made like the f 22. In some other cases the records are most likely gone forever but in this era the boats are verified by HINs case in point the donzi by CC made in goshen IN.

the record shows no factory rigged 16 jets, the 16 left the factory unrigged the most back in the time period could a jet have wound up in one sure. there was one here for sale way back red and white with the new Z on the back could be a real donzi could also be a splash .

So to further research this given what you remember . i will look for jet and unrigged 18 made in 70-71 all white( only way you would have a white transom) do you remember if the boat had a water line stripe??

I'll let you know what I find

mattyboy
07-19-2011, 03:29 PM
that search didn't pan out anything

first factory olds jet in an 18 2+3 was 73 Doesn't match as Brad remembers 72 and a X style deck

there were some all white decks and hulls but again the time frame is before and after what Brad remembers and again not an x 18 style deck. These boats would have an all white transom

The search did pan out on a few other facts and only solidifies the fact in my mind that these records are very accurate and any thing special is noted.

gcarter
07-19-2011, 03:48 PM
Matty, when I mentioned the Minx numbers, Bob's (Vette) came to mind as its hull number was way out of sequence and quite a few numbers after the presumed end of production and clearly an OMC boat.
The other boat I thought of is Jamie's Testa Rossa and the fact his hull number is well down the line from the rest of them and quite a few numbers out of sequence.
So, I guess you'd have to assume Donzi would take special orders.

mattyboy
07-19-2011, 04:32 PM
George,
yes special orders were taken, vette's minx was after the original thought end of 156 correct? the testa and le's were mixed in with the regular 22 so they may not be sequencial I have seen the all red 22 as late as 93 but not sure if was a testa had a CC hin too. as posted here by donzigo in the omc date thread he was at the factory in aug 88 when they were changing the plant to CC so in that time frame the plant moved as did the records.

mrfixxall
07-19-2011, 11:57 PM
The X-18 was & colored & configured as I described.
My Uncle bought it at the Philly boat show in 72 as I have stated~~~
Did Donzi itself, or the Dealer, own that boat on the Philly show floor ?
I have no clue ?
That said ~~could it have been actully built in 71 ?
Or was it possibly one of the first Donzi prototype "X" 18s built with the Olds 455/Berkeley water jet ?
Again I have no idea.

Could Berkeley themselves have rigged this boat ?
I saw on someone else's jet Donzi post here a mention that their boat had a Jet Specialitys sticker on their boat.
Who were they ?
Could they have possibly rigged some of the early Donzi jets ?
Again I have no idea ?
Was this boat rigged with this unique water jet power package at the Donzi factory~
Or rigged by an outside sub-contractor just like the Hollman-Moody editions ?
Again I do not know ?

But~
I did nail down the Donzi dealer Longport/Stone Harbor Marine . They owned both South Jersey locations.
Ask yourself ~
How would I know that fact ?
How did I know WHO was the South Jersey Donzi dealer in those 1970 days ?
Well~
We used their Longport NJ location for inside winter storage & jet pump repair after my cousins sucked-up shells in low water and damaged the jet pump's impeller & wear band thrust collar.
I later took-over all engine & drive repairs & winterizing during the family's ownership.

I also told everyone here, and on Donzi.org , that this X-18 jet had TWO fuel tanks & deck fills with a three way fuel valve; which I think surprised many folks.
It was a shock to many here.
It has since been discovered by me that some others, if not all of the known 18 & X18 jets had two fuel tanks.

Now was this green color Gell or paint ?
I don't know~
I always thought it was gell .
My question~
Did anyone use paint on boat hulls in this era ?
Again~I don't know ?
I thought most all were gell.
Would the available paint of this 1970s era hold up during five-six months of constant saltwater exposure.
Remember we always put this boat, and in fact ALL our boats, in the water in early May~~~and pulled her for the winter in early October.
Could the 1970s era paint wave withstood this constant salt-water immersion?
We saw no blistering, flaking, or any damage to the hull sides.
We did have gell oxidation & fading on the deck & racing stripe as I mentioned to Jim.
But I do not remember any oxidation ever on the hull sides.

Matty~
Again maybe I over reacted to your posts.
I took them as you saying that I was either crazy or a B.S. artist & the boat never existed.
I hate B.S. Artists~ as do most others .
This upset & angered me~~ to say the very least .
It appears I mis-undertood your intent.
Sorry for lashing-out at you.~~~but I mis-took your post as a personal attack on my integrity and responded in kind.
Re-read all my past posts about the old X-18 jet since I first joined here. You will see there really are no inconsistant posts.
As time went on my later posts gave more details.

And again~
Why the heck would I keep that old Olds 455 junk-core engine sitting around since the 1970s ?
They were hard to find in those days~
We wanted a spare engine for the X-18.
Later after my Uncle sold the "X" 18 jet I always dreamed of buying MY OWN Donzi 18 or "X" 18 jet some day and kept that big old lump of iron sitting around.
Still have it sitting in Dad's garage toay.
Sadly for all my years of looking no Donzi 18 or "X" 18 jet has turned up for me.
The only Donzi jet I ever found was that yellow 16 some years back~~~
And by the time I spotted the for sale adverts~~~ it had sadly already been sold .


SG,, bring me the bench seat boat and your check book and ill finish the boat the way you want it..i can even put a jet in it if you like..