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axelkloehn
06-10-2011, 09:13 AM
...take your 3D-software and build a 16.... I think this was a quiet good performance, so I put it under performance talk...:wink:

Greg, any mods you want me to apply? :shades:
No, no outboard conversion please... :wink:

.................................................. .................

gcarter
06-10-2011, 11:01 AM
Axel, add some cup holders to your boat!
Nice red powdercoated cup holders!
It'll add some bling too.

Greg Guimond
06-10-2011, 12:11 PM
Axel make it an OB, then a bench seat but mounted all the way back, right against the splashwell :shades:

Greg Guimond
06-10-2011, 12:15 PM
Ok, I had to get the OB weedeater out there LOL ..........:nilly:

I was going to do a deck that had the bench seat all the way back with center steering, and then two hatched rumble seats, single row, large one , then smaller on in front of the larger one. Then a got a hold of my craziness and did Surface Tension instead

Ed Donnelly
06-10-2011, 08:16 PM
Yeah what Greg said ...Ed

Greg Guimond
06-10-2011, 09:52 PM
I always wondered Ed what a "long deck" 16 would look like. The dual single rumble hatches would allow one adult and one kid to take a ride.

silverghost
06-10-2011, 10:07 PM
Axel~
This could open-up a complete new job/career opportunity as a "Custom Speedboat Designer" ?
I'm with Greg~
We both would like to see several new Gentleman's speedster/racer benchseat designs on the Donzi 16, 18 & Hornet or 21 GT.
Keep those great designs comming & hire a few fiberglass & wood guys to make some hull & deck plugs & molds. You would soon find yourself in the Custom High-End Speedboat business.

I can see it now~

"Kloehn-Kraft"
High-Performance Custom Design Speedboats
Hand Crafted In Germany To The Very Highest World Class German Performance & Custom Design Standards ! :germany:

I would be your USA East Coast Dealer & first customer ~
Can you find a way to stuff an Ilmor Viper V-10 in one of your custom designs like Mr.-X has just posted on Donzi-org ? Did you see his boat's photos that were just posted there ?
What a Fantastic boat his Ilmor~Viper V-10 is !

axelkloehn
06-11-2011, 03:30 AM
thanks guys, I might play with the hull next week, it is a good base to check some design modifications.

George: I have a spot with a spider crack in my cockpit at the port side where the armrest used to be, I already think about do some kind of an moulded cupholder there, of course with axelkloehn-custom-design :wink:

Brad: I like the name kloehn-kraft, never thought about a name like this, deal on you being my first customer and eastcoast dealer.

I very often think about building my own design speedboat, but the market in germany is small and gas-consuming V8s are not the most desired engines anymore, they all go for diesel thanks to our gas-prices

mrfixxall
06-11-2011, 03:38 AM
thanks guys, I might play with the hull next week, it is a good base to check some design modifications.

George: I have a spot with a spider crack in my cockpit at the port side where the armrest used to be, I already think about do some kind of an moulded cupholder there, of course with axelkloehn-custom-design :wink:

Brad: I like the name kloehn-kraft, never thought about a name like this, deal on you being my first customer and eastcoast dealer.

I very often think about building my own design speedboat, but the market in germany is small and gas-consuming V8s are not the most desired engines anymore, they all go for diesel thanks to our gas-prices


i ofter thought about putting a electric fork lift motor in a 16 classic..remove the fuel tank and put the battery pack up their and instead of the center stripe carve it out and put one long solar panel to charge the battery where the center stripe would be..The down side, would be to some how isolate the electric power from getting electrocuted..

silverghost
06-11-2011, 04:36 AM
Axel~
About 15 years ago I seem to remember Yanmar Corp. putting a small high performance marine Diesel in a new Donzi hull as a test-bed.
As I remember it had fairly good performance.

Does anyone else remember this Yanmar Diesel test?

Just Say N20
06-11-2011, 08:42 AM
I remember that diesel project. I have wondered why this idea never went anywhere. Perhaps it is just our love affair with V8 performance engines.

With torque being what boats need, and torque being what diesel engines excel at, it would seem like a great match. If I remember correctly, Fabio Buzzi (sp?) did very were well on the offshore circuit years ago campaigning a diesel powered boat. Common rail engines have produced huge improvements in the performance of diesels as well as really cleaning them up.

I think it would be great to put a small diesel in a Classic and have something that could cruise all day long at 80% - 90% load, with great fuel economy.

zelatore
06-11-2011, 09:18 AM
I think you'll find several reasons why diesels haven't become so popular for sport boats, at least in the US.

Sound.
For a sport boat, that's a lot of it for many people. Diesels just don't sound as good.

Perception.
True or not, most people in the US are ignorant about diesel. Most still think of the diesels of the 70s and 80s and don't know anything about the current state of the art.

Price.
Diesels have gotten much better over the years, but they haven't exactly gotten cheaper. And of course for that big torque at low RPM, you'll need some specialized running gear. Yanmar, Merc, and Volvo all put sterndrives behind diesels, but not in performance applications.

Diesels have gotten a lot better as regards performance applications with lighter weight, smaller packages, and higher RPM, but they still don't match gas engines in small performance boats. I also think you'd find the fuel mileage wouldn't be that much higher. Better, yes, but not double as many people think. I would guess 25% improvement, but with a corresponding loss of performance.

Of course, as you move up in size the more sense diesels make. By the time you get up to something around 40', diesel is a good option even with current power choices.

I would love to see some new diesel development though. Take the BMW 3.0 diesel as used in a cars like the 335d and 535d. That could be an interesting engine if marinized, and I'm sure there are other performance diesels on the roads in Europe that we don't get here that might make good platforms for smaller sport boats. It would certainly be interesting to try.

joseph m. hahnl
06-11-2011, 09:20 AM
i ofter thought about putting a electric fork lift motor in a 16 classic..remove the fuel tank and put the battery pack up their and instead of the center stripe carve it out and put one long solar panel to charge the battery where the center stripe would be..The down side, would be to some how isolate the electric power from getting electrocuted..
No need to do all that. NetGain makes it all right out of the box. :yes:


This Edison uses twin Trans Warp 9's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN-8Ky_I_ak


http://www.go-ev.com/


NetGain Trans Warp 11 DC motor, comes with a drive shaft yoke

http://www.go-ev.com/images/thumbs/thmb_TransWarP_11_Mktg_01.jpg (http://www.go-ev.com/images/TransWarP_11_Mktg_01.jpg)

and they make a Warp 13:worthy:



All Trax inc. makes the speed controller and software to run it

http://www.alltraxinc.com/Products.html

MOP
06-11-2011, 09:28 AM
Donzi might give some thought to the Euro market offering hi perf diesel packages, who knows they could very well be viable in the US market also.

silverghost
06-11-2011, 10:36 AM
That Yanmar Diesel powered Donzi Test-Bed was written-up in all the boating magazines in it's day.
We actually saw it at the Atlantic City NJ In-Water-Boat-show.
There were hourly ride demonstrations.
It seemed to really move-out. The holeshot acceleration was not that great however.
The boat also Did Not sound like a gasoline V-8 powered Donzi at all however.
Yanmar had great hopes that this performance Diesel drive package would catch-on.
It went nowhere however~
Yanmar at this point in time was trying very hard to break into the diesel powered small boat market.
They really pushed this idea at the time.
When I asked the Yanmar salesman why demonstrate this power-package in a fast performance boat like a Donzi ?
The reply was~
If people see how really fast & light his Yanmar Diesel drive power package can really be ~~~They might seriously consider it on their next smaller boat purchase.
I remember Dad asking what the price-premium would be with this new Yanmar Diesel power package over standard gasoline V-8 power.
The Yanmar salesman kept avoiding a firm answer.
His reply was something like~ We have yet to figure-out our sales-marketing "Price-point" for this brand-new Diesel drive package ?.
Typical salesman BS when you wish to avoid giving an cost/price answer you KNOW the potential customer will not really like.
I forget now which brand outdrive was actually coupled to this Yanmar marine diesel ? I often wonder what the outdrive's final drive gear ratio was to push that boat at near Gasoline V-8 speeds ?
This Yanmar Diesel was an in-line turbocharged diesel engine. ;with a brand-new-at-this-time~~ electronic fuel management system.
It also had a closed Freshwater Cooling System & polished stainless steel performance style wet exhaust.

With today's crazy $4.00+ /per-gallon fuel prices the Diesel might be worth another look ?

I believe Donzi itself was involved in this project also; to a smaller degree.
Did Donzi ever offer this Yanmar diesel option in their smaller single engine speedboat line ?
Did it ever go into limited production ?

Others may have a better memory on this old Yanmar Diesel/ Donzi experiment than I ?
Check your old boating magazine archives~ If you still have them laying around somewhere ?

Ghost
06-11-2011, 11:45 AM
I think it would be great to put a small diesel in a Classic and have something that could cruise all day long at 80% - 90% load, with great fuel economy.

I have been pondering this for a while. My question is with small, higher-revving lightweight diesels (take the 209HP Volvo D3, or the 355 HP D6 for example), can you really expect these will stand up to the continuous 80-90% of WOT RPM usage like the older, much heavier ones? (Say, 2800 - 3150 RPM use in a 3500 RPM motor.) I have considered a bunch of ideas around single or twin diesels, given the power/weight of the newer ones.

But what scares me is they don't even seem to quote a max. continuous RPM spec. I thought that would be par for the course for any diesel. Instead, Volvo just rates them "R5" for "recreational duty". What does that even mean, really?

I hate the thought of paying double or triple for a motor for what amounts to a 40% improvement in mpg, slightly worse performance, more weight, and a huge increase in parts cost, without great reliability and all-day cruising at 80-90% throttle.

And unless the news is bad, I'm not sure we can even know what the answer is for another 15 years or so.

Any experiences with these, or info/opinions on how they will last and what sort of max continuous RPM they will really take?

axelkloehn
06-11-2011, 04:40 PM
here is a good sound comparison from our P1-series:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNbZKlY9NacMercs, Lamborghini and Diesels, from the Diesels you here the turbos screaming, the V12 Lambo-Boat is stunning but I love the OSG-Donzi

here are some good diesels:

http://boatdiesel.com/Engines/Seatek/Seatek.cfm

and info:

http://boatdiesel.com/index.cfm

axelkloehn
06-14-2011, 04:16 AM
here is the gentleman-racer edition. First thoughts were this will never look good, but I changed my mind...

silverghost
06-14-2011, 04:40 AM
Axel~
Your virtual model Gentleman's racer/speedster looks great.
My Benchseat 18's cockpit is only 36" from the top of the dash insrument panel to the top of the bench seat's back without the cushons.
This is the way I bought this project in 2009.
If I had to re-design this cockpit I might have added about an extra 6" of cockpit length much like Lenny did on his X-18 benchseat prototype.
For a big guy like me it is a bit tight like it now sits at 36".
See photos of my project under thread here~"Early 18' Classic Race Boat Found"

RickSE
06-14-2011, 10:52 AM
...About 15 years ago I seem to remember Yanmar Corp. putting a small high performance marine Diesel in a new Donzi hull as a test-bed.
As I remember it had fairly good performance.

Does anyone else remember this Yanmar Diesel test?

They also did a 33 or 38ZX with Yanmar's around 1998 or 1999. I have pictures somewhere. I thought there was one other boat they did.

Greg Guimond
06-14-2011, 01:42 PM
I like it Axel.........if you can put up with ring a ding ding, you can move the c_ckpit back even further toward the transom and make it a bit bigger like Brad mentioned. Maybe put a 250 SHO from Yamaha on the bracket! :)

Greg Guimond
06-28-2011, 08:04 PM
Here you go Axel, you can make it a center steering Gentleman's Racer and pop on this race screen