Freshwater cooling woes

[RussJohnson]

I ran into some issues recently and posted here for help so I thought I would follow up.

I found some water in my port side cylinders and ended up replacing my manifolds and risers recently.

Now upon filling my freshwater cooling system tank with water, the water started running right out of the port side exhaust without the engine running. So I pulled the sparkplugs on the portside and sure enough, water in them again.

Any thoughts on whats allowing the coolant side to run right into the cylinders on that port side and out the exhaust? :confused:

I dont know much about the cooling system on it other than its aftermarket. I've never had a freshwater system before.

[gcarter]

Cracked head maybe?

[gcarter]

Or, is there coolant (anti freeze) in the coolant side and what's running out is water and not coolant?
It's not a very good idea to run water in the coolant side w/o anti freeze as it will start corroding immediately.
But if it is water in the system, remove the manifold and try again and see if it happens again. It's more than likely a cracked head or head gasket.

[mrfixxall]

like George said something is definitely cracked..most likely a bad gasket or a crack in the cylinder head,,need more info of what you have for a engine..

[RussJohnson]

Well we were running water in the coolant side to do the initial flush. The information I have on the cooling system says to pour soft or distilled water into the heat exchanger fill cap to flush any silicates or debris.

Problem is, it started running out the exhaust so we knew right away something was wrong.

The engine is a 5.7 that has an aluminum intake manifold and heads. It was in the boat that way when I bought it last summer.

I was thinking it was a head gasket. I guess I should saw more like "hoping" its a head gasket and not a cracked head.

[silverghost]

It sounds like it's time to pull that head and check for any cracks.
Could be a head gasket~
But it really sounds like a cracked head to me.
What did you have in that freshwater side over the winter ~~~
Antifreeze ?

Was the engine winterized & properly freeze protected over the winter with antifreeze ?

Let's hope your engine block is not cracked .

[gcarter]

What I did w/mine was to open and pour a gallon of antifreeze into a clean bucket. Fill the antifreeze container w/reverse osmosis water, distilled water, or deionized water and dump it into the bucket. Mix the antifreeze and pure water thouroughly, then pour it into the heat exchanger. Repeat as necessary. You'll end up w/excess coolant in the bucket, pour it into one of the antifreeze containers for topping up as necessary at a later time.

[DonziJon]

I don't think Aluminum heads crack. Maybe a head gasket (copper inserts) with a corrosion issue with the iron block. DJ

[RussJohnson]

Yeah it was anti-freeze in the coolant side, not water over the winter.

I will get started pulling the head on that side and start looking for damage.

Thanks again for all the help and replies.

[silverghost]

We also suggested a few weeks ago that you might want to do a cylinder compression test.
You may want to do this before pulling that head.

The boat yard may know much more than they actually told you ?

Sorry for all your engine troubles.

[RussJohnson]

Yeah I didnt get the compression test done yet. Keep waiting on my brother to get over here with his tester. I will make sure to get that done either tomorrow or Saturday before I pull the head.

Would the compression test differentiate between a head problem and a block problem?

@SilverGhost - Yeah Im wondering how much of this they knew and didnt say anything about. Then again, with quoting me $2000 to replace the manifolds/risers, I would probably not want to know what they would charge to go any further :lookaroun:

[silverghost]

[quote=RussJohnson;603695]

Would the compression test differentiate between a head problem and a block problem?

:lookaroun:[/quote

A compression test would NOT tell if you have a head, block , or head gasket issue.
You could not really tell from the test where your leakage is.
But you would know for sure that the head must come off for more visual inspection.
Go to any auto store~
Compression gauges are very cheap.
Why wait for your brother to finally arrive with his gauge.

Let's hope it is just a head gasket or one cracked head .

Aluminim heads can & do crack from freezing.

[mrfixxall]

A compression wont tell you nothing but cylinder pressure or if their is compression getting into the water passages..your best bet would be to remove all the spark plugs and do a cooling system pressure test..this will lead you in the direction on where to look,if it were me i would be taking the engine apart for a visual inspection..you know it was not the manifolds or risers so it has to be a internal leak so doing all the rest of the tests would be a waste of time..

if it is a vortec style cylinder head with 8 intake bolts than their could be a crack in the cross over part of the intake manifold leaking water into the intake ports but doubtful,,when they crack under the carb they usually leak h2o in the oil as well..

A aluminum head will crack if it froze or of the engine got over heated really bad, start taking the engine apart..
p.s.
in order to do a cooling system test you will need a cooling system tester and pump that you would use on a car..take the 2 hoses going to the risers and remove them and loop the hose at the thermostat housing so you can pressurise the system..

[silverghost]

Since we know that that exhaust manifold/riser was leaking badly into the head's exhaust ports~
I've just got to wonder if the engine was turned-over with the starter while there was water actually IN the engine cylinders ?
You also stated water squirted out of the sparkplug holes.~
Water does not compress~
Very bad things can happen in this stuation.

We also know that the starter itself was damaged on spring start-up and had to be replaced.
It almost sounds like the engine hydro-locked and possibly cracked a casting.
Head, block etc ?
You should also check for possible cracked pistons whle that head is off.
You just never know when a hydro-locked engine is turned over by a starter ?
Very bad damage can happen in this situation.

Let's all hope for the best for you here~

[DonziJon]

How about a warped (aluminum) head. I seem to remember this as being a good possability if the engine is overheated......even once....OR.. the head was never properly torqued..OR maybe "Stress Relieved" after it was manufactured.

Compared to cast iron..Aluminum is very soft and would stretch, to a point, before cracking. Cast iron doesn't stretch. Cast aluminum....?? I am just a technical person..I would defer to Fixx and hands on experience. :yes: DJ

[BUIZILLA]

what cylinders are an issue?

hard to believe it's more than one..

[RussJohnson]

All 4 port side cylinders had water in them. Thats what seems so odd to me.

[BUIZILLA]

what engine is this?

dual plane intake?

[silverghost]

Very strange to have water comming out of ALL cylinders on one side of an engine .
Especially after putting on a new marine manifold & riser elbow ?

[RussJohnson]

Not really sure what a dual plane intake is.

Someone prior to me repowered the boat. Its got a 5.7 Mercruiser with aluminum intake and heads, a freshwater cooling system and a 4bbl.

[silverghost]

Is there a manufacturer's name on the intake manifold & a cast-in model number?

You have us ALL scratching our heads on this problem.

A cracked head, or block, or bad head gasket would not allow water to enter ALL cylinders on one side.

JIm (Buizilla) is suspecting a bad intake.
Anything is possible on this one ~

[mrfixxall]

Not really sure what a dual plane intake is.

Someone prior to me repowered the boat. Its got a 5.7 Mercruiser with aluminum intake and heads, a freshwater cooling system and a 4bbl.


please take a pic of your engine and post it so we can see which model it is..

[RussJohnson]

I will get some pics of it tomorrow and try to see what other info I can glean from the motor tomorrow when I head over to my dads house where I store it. I will make sure to look specifically for the intake manufacturer and a model number.

Thanks again for all the help and will post more info tomorrow.

[silverghost]

At this point I would just tear into it and pull the intake & cylinder head.

You will then soon see what the real problem is that is going on there.

Keep us updated~
We are ALL very curious where all that water is really comming from.

[silverghost]

Russ~

Did you ever get a chance to pull your cylinder head & check-out where your water leak may be located ?
Did you find a crack in your head, or heaven forbid, your engine block?
How about the condition of your intake manifold ?

We have all been waiting for a current update on your engine's water leak problem.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Well we were running water in the coolant side to do the initial flush. The information I have on the cooling system says to pour soft or distilled water into the heat exchanger fill cap to flush any silicates or debris.

Problem is, it started running out the exhaust so we knew right away something was wrong.

The engine is a 5.7 that has an aluminum intake manifold and heads. It was in the boat that way when I bought it last summer.

I was thinking it was a head gasket. I guess I should saw more like "hoping" its a head gasket and not a cracked head. If you have a full cooler, meaning the coolant runs through the exhaust manifold as well as the block.
You may have used the wrong riser gasket. The closed cooling gasket does not have slots in it. If there were slots in the gasket it allows the water to enter the riser.

http://www.boatequipmentsuperstore.com/catalog/images/cache/GLM-30240.146120.JPG (http://www.boatequipmentsuperstore.com/GLM-30240Exhaust-elbow-mounting-gasket/)
http://www.boatequipmentsuperstore.com/catalog/images/GLM-30220.JPG
There is a test kit available to check for fluorocarbons in the coolant . They also have a additive that will repair the gasket,but I wouldn't recommend using it. With a boat, being stranded out in the middle some where, can put a damper on your day

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/2XZPsenUArJhrmKBlJ5jjmQtiaZL9nCUQjUxRqOBwXZ6pC2zPy vBOAuJLLurjf7eHvZHokQFeQ_efjDYmxG600PdN9FCrSP4SPq4 hESeq01O4hcsDap7dnk9EaL7mYXUL-Hm2xPHSkx11rxb8r4Mvkl3b48kZFPXcHo8_gQ7aDnoT_JRdmDe Mne8FzbfpMqwDIsIMoay-VulqEhKGW3wE4xnw7Z7MuDU7qRZAzkNFQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skKwZk42euE

[RussJohnson]

No, havent had a chance to pull it down yet due to some issues with work having to put in too many extra hours lately.

Should be getting started on it first of the week and I will keep you guys posted once I find something out.

Thanks for the follow up!

[RussJohnson]

Well its not the good news I was hoping for but I guess its not as bad as it could be.

After pulling the head on the side with the water leak. We immediately realized it wasnt just the head gasket. The aluminum heads are eaten up with corrosion inside! Holes completely through into the water jackets...

Its apparent that whoever repowered this boat, did not take care of it the way you should. Which amazes me with the condition of the hull and interior. People like that make me sick.

Now Im on the hunt for some new heads. Not aluminum by any means. Just going to put some stock 5.7 heads on it. Any suggestions on remanned heads?

Here's a couple pics we snapped with the cell phone.

Thanks again for all the info and help.

[silverghost]

Well you finally got to the bottom of the problem~

It's bad~
But I guess it could have been worse ?

Ever consider new "Dart" cast iron heads ?

I would replace your intake manifold also.
It's water passages are most likely corroded too.

It appears that they used tap water along with the antifreeze & not distilled water.
And~~~ they must have never changed out the antifreeze .

There might also have been salt contamination inbedded within the old iron block when the aluminum heads & intake were first put-on this old engine ?

How do the cylinder bore walls look ?
Is there any rust or corrosion there ?
Lets hope not.