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rowe
05-23-2011, 01:32 PM
Hey guys looking for some help...lost my prop in the lake and cannot remember what size/pitch I need for a 1969 16 foot Donzi with a 351 Ford and a H/Moody outdrive. Does anyone have a nice one you could sell me or atleast a suggestion on what size/pitch I should be running. Thanks inadvance for your help. steverowenhorst@garlandrug.com 706-280-1396

jl1962
05-23-2011, 01:45 PM
Search eBay for Volvo Propellers.

Diameter should be around 15", pitch around 21". Left hand drive.

The old aluminum Michigan props are cheap mid range cruisers - usually under $100.

Better stainless props would be a Solas (19 or 21'' pitch), or a Volvo Ultra (22 or 24" pitch).

bzsmarina
05-23-2011, 10:06 PM
i have a very nice stainless custom spinelli 3 blade 14 1/4 by 21 rt hand i am selling for 350.00. should be great for you. let me know ill send you pictures.

Just Say N20
05-23-2011, 11:23 PM
bzsmarina, not meaning to cool a potential sale based on your offer, but if his 16 is a 1969, it has port steering, and needs a left hand rotation prop.

Yes, his outdrive will spin either way, but I believe a right hand prop on a port side helm could make for a very squirrelly ride. When looking at the boat from the stern, a right hand rotation prop will torque/roll the boat counter clockwise. This would be amplified by the driver already sitting on the port side of the boat.

bzsmarina
05-24-2011, 10:12 PM
bzsmarina, not meaning to cool a potential sale based on your offer, but if his 16 is a 1969, it has port steering, and needs a left hand rotation prop.

Yes, his outdrive will spin either way, but I believe a right hand prop on a port side helm could make for a very squirrelly ride. When looking at the boat from the stern, a right hand rotation prop will torque/roll the boat counter clockwise. This would be amplified by the driver already sitting on the port side of the boat.


i also have port side helm. i found that spinning everything left, motor and drive with left helm, the boat laid on the left side. i spun the drive right problem was gone. just what worked for me. just offering the prop that's all.

silverghost
05-24-2011, 10:34 PM
I have to agree with Bill~
The RH prop is nothing but trouble on your application.

Go with a new Left Hand Stainless Steel ~ Solas brand Aquamatic style "Titan" 21" or 19".
These are fantastic props for these old Volvo/Holman-Moody outdrives.

Walt. H.
05-24-2011, 10:38 PM
bzsmarina, not meaning to cool a potential sale based on your offer, but if his 16 is a 1969, it has port steering, and needs a left hand rotation prop.
Yes, his outdrive will spin either way, but I believe a right hand prop on a port side helm could make for a very squirrelly ride. When looking at the boat from the stern, a right hand rotation prop will torque/roll the boat counter clockwise. This would be amplified by the driver already sitting on the port side of the boat.

i also have port side helm. i found that spinning everything left, motor and drive with left helm, the boat laid on the left side. i spun the drive right problem was gone. just what worked for me. just offering the prop that's all.
What Just Say N20 said is 100% correct, thats why prop rotation always followed which side the steering helm placement is on.
bzsmarina your reasoning would only be correct with two extra passengers for ballast sitting on the starboard/right side.

thescooter
05-24-2011, 11:19 PM
sorry for your lost prop.
But!
i lost a prop several years ago, i was towed in by a sail boat (how embarrassing), the joke at the dock was "didn't you go and look for it."
so here is the joke.

a priest took the town drunk down to the dock at the town lake to try and sober him up.
the priest dunked the drunk several minutes at the dock. each time he came up for air the priest asked him "have you seen god yet". the drunk after about 10 minutes of this said "father are you sure you left him down here i can not see him."
Nick "the scooter"

Donzi_Dude
05-25-2011, 05:26 AM
What Just Say N20 said is 100% correct, thats why prop rotation always followed which side the steering helm placement is on.
bzsmarina your reasoning would only be correct with two extra passengers for ballast sitting on the starboard/right side.
if that is true why is that not what is happening? you have all these peeps saying its a certain way but in BZ's case it isnt.
why does this pattern keep happening?


maybe i missed something? or maybe the ones who built this boat know less than the experts here on the internet?

no offence to you Walt!

mattyboy
05-25-2011, 07:46 AM
HEY BZ I GOT YOU EMAIL THE OTHER DAY ABOUT FINALLY SENDING ME THE TRANSOM HOUSING I PAID FOR OVER 5 YEARS AGO WHEN I BOUGHT THAT DRIVE FROM YOU. YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT??? NOW YOU'RE GONE SEND IT?? I DON'T EVEN OWN THAT BOAT ANYMORE!!!! I SAID I WAS IN NO REAL RUSH FOR THE TRANSOM HOUSING I NEEDED THE DRIVE RIGHT AWAY TO GET TO THE 2005 DUSTOFF A MONTH OR 2 ,END OF THAT SEASON I COULD HAVE LIVED WITH BUT ALMOST 6 YEARS LATER YOU MAKE THE ATTEMPT TO SEND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad:

Just Say N20
05-25-2011, 07:52 AM
if that is true why is that not what is happening? you have all these peeps saying its a certain way but in BZ's case it isnt.
why does this pattern keep happening?

maybe i missed something? or maybe the ones who built this boat know less than the experts here on the internet?
no offence to you Walt!

Bigger picture. My statement reflects exactly what the boat builders knew. While I'm sure there are probably a few exceptions that happened when someone ordered a custom drive package from Donzi, in the vast majority of boats built, when left hand rotation Eaton/Volvo drives were being used, the boats had left hand helms. When outboards were used (which have right hand rotation), right side helms were used. When right hand rotation OMC and Mercruiser drives were used, the helm was on the right side.

The rotational force exerted by a spinning prop is simple physics. For every action, there is an equal, and opposite reaction. A prop that spins to the left, is going to roll the boat to the right. Boat builders know this, and build boats accordingly.

As for the implied proof you suggest with the picture you posted, all I see is a boat that has a left hand helm and a right hand shorty. That's all. It also is labeled "1st . . ." It doesn't say the boat performed correctly, so I can't assume that. I can assume someone who understands the effect of prop torque on a hull because he worked in the industry, used an available boat, which had a port helm, and installed a different drive than what came on the boat.

mattyboy
05-25-2011, 08:42 AM
Hey guys looking for some help...lost my prop in the lake and cannot remember what size/pitch I need for a 1969 16 foot Donzi with a 351 Ford and a H/Moody outdrive. Does anyone have a nice one you could sell me or atleast a suggestion on what size/pitch I should be running. Thanks inadvance for your help. steverowenhorst@garlandrug.com 706-280-1396


I apologize for the outburst, sorry back to the point of the thread. I had the exact setup and Have tested at least 12 props on that setup ranging from old bronze props to alum. to SS custom even a prop with holes drilled in it. I am not sure what you are looking for all around performance ,water sports,flat out speed, stable handling? but you can jump to the head of the class and try a solas or an ultra. I found the solas 21 to be the best performing and handling prop on my 16 skisporter. The 351 should be a 290 HP( after 69-70 they dropped the hp rating) if you look at the HM tag on the bell housing it will tell you that.
If I can help or give you any info drop me a line mnmveth@optonline.net

one other thing with an old AQ volvo you're gonna need an assortment of thrust washers to try long and short hubbed props. Also you may have to address the torque tab/exhaust port on the lower too.

Matty Veth
Lake George Donzi Classic Club

Just Say N20
05-25-2011, 08:58 AM
Hi Mattyboy.

Welcome back. :yes:

Donzi_Dude
05-25-2011, 04:54 PM
As for the implied proof you suggest with the picture you posted, all I see is a boat that has a left hand helm and a right hand shorty. That's all. It also is labeled "1st . . ." It doesn't say the boat performed correctly, so I can't assume that. I can assume someone who understands the effect of prop torque on a hull because he worked in the industry, used an available boat, which had a port helm, and installed a different drive than what came on the boat.


i didnt imply anything other than what is pictured??? dont know if it works or not and didnt imply it did. i do suspect it does.

:confused:

maybe im slow today but you lost me on the last part. the boat was designed that way.

bzsmarina
05-25-2011, 05:58 PM
HEY BZ I GOT YOU EMAIL THE OTHER DAY ABOUT FINALLY SENDING ME THE TRANSOM HOUSING I PAID FOR OVER 5 YEARS AGO WHEN I BOUGHT THAT DRIVE FROM YOU. YOU'RE KIDDING RIGHT??? NOW YOU'RE GONE SEND IT?? I DON'T EVEN OWN THAT BOAT ANYMORE!!!! I SAID I WAS IN NO REAL RUSH FOR THE TRANSOM HOUSING I NEEDED THE DRIVE RIGHT AWAY TO GET TO THE 2005 DUSTOFF A MONTH OR 2 ,END OF THAT SEASON I COULD HAVE LIVED WITH BUT ALMOST 6 YEARS LATER YOU MAKE THE ATTEMPT TO SEND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad:



WTF!!!!!!! i just took it off the boat last year!!! i told you i needed bunch of parts for the 280t and went thru hard times. sorry man soon as i took it off i been trying to give it to you. took it to the long island race. have not tryed to sell it, and offered to ship it to you for free. if you want it, its yours. if not ill scrap the damn thing. but don't go saying i screwed you cause i have not.

mattyboy
05-25-2011, 11:47 PM
wtf!!!!!!! I just took it off the boat last year!!! I told you i needed bunch of parts for the 280t and went thru hard times. Sorry man soon as i took it off i been trying to give it to you. Took it to the long island race. Have not tryed to sell it, and offered to ship it to you for free. If you want it, its yours. If not ill scrap the damn thing. But don't go saying i screwed you cause i have not.

the only way you are ever gonna make this right is to send me what i paid for 5 over years ago the first peep i heard out of you was an email send thru this site with no way to respond 2 months ago .
Would maybe have been worth it to both of us if you were gonna deliver it to me at the long island races send to the email before you go there not 6 months after.

Please send it to
matthew veth
67 ramapo valley rd suite 105
mahwah nj 07430

Walt. H.
05-26-2011, 12:44 AM
if that is true why is that not what is happening? you have all these peeps saying its a certain way but in BZ's case it isnt.
why does this pattern keep happening?
maybe i missed something? or maybe the ones who built this boat know less than the experts here on the internet?
no offence to you Walt!
None taken dude, but thanks for the thought.

Regarding your question you're comparing apples to oranges, first off the boat in your pic is running a shortened outdrive where 1/3rd of the prop isn't in the water once the water moves away from the transom so the torque is much less and the prop slippage is higher compared to the deep draft Volvo.

Secondly to compare it to a older style Volvo deep draft stern-drive that normally runs a big ear prop and a much larger diameter one at that then a Bravo turns or even a Alpha in other cases is another factor to consider, because that Volvo combination will cause all kinds of counter reaction when the throttle is pushed, not to forget some serious torque steer and why that exh trim tab on those drives needed to be aligned correctly or you better be keeping a tight grip on the wheel.

But hey' what do I know, i'm not the marine engineering rocket scientist that came up with this design formula or on the other end of the website spectrum of a armchair magazine reading B.S. Artist! I'm just someone that's been around doing this stuff since the late 50's early 1960's at a boat dealer as a kid working on this stuff learning the trade and into the 70's doing it as a real profession until I decided to just make it a full time hobby again for other reasons after the mid 1970's.
Like all things there are variables where no two are alike even though they're suppose to be identical and the reason for so many disclaimers today because it may work for me and not for you or your results may be different from mine or what was promised, such as fuel mileage and hair growth just to name a few.

This thread has been hi-jacked off topic long enough don't you think?
And now I know why the Bravo-lll was invented, to end this discussion! :bonk:
The question started out very simple with something like:Prop Help Please, I lost my prop in the lake - this is the boat I have what do I need to buy to replace it.

Donzi_Dude
05-26-2011, 05:19 AM
first off the boat in your pic is running a shortened outdrive where 1/3rd of the prop isn't in the water once the water moves away from the transom so the torque is much less and the prop slippage is higher compared to the deep draft Volvo.
Secondly to compare it to a older style Volvo deep draft stern-drive that normally runs a big ear prop and a much larger diameter one at that then a Bravo turns or even a Alpha in other cases is another factor to consider, because that Volvo combination will cause all kinds of counter reaction when the throttle is pushed, not to forget some serious torque steer and This thread has been hi-jacked off topic long enough don't you think?

And now I know why the Bravo-lll was invented, to end this discussion! :bonk:
The question started out very simple with something like:Prop Help Please, I lost my prop in the lake - this is the boat I have what do I need to buy to replace it.


thanks for being easy on me Walt. i respect every thing your saying.

what do you think about a v-drive? why would the theory not appy? we are spinning right with a portside helm.

again the theory does not hold water with all boats. seems back in the day it didnt matter what drive/outboard you had. not a volvo specific problem or non-problem.

heck this thread is on topic. what if BZ was to offer the OP the RH prop to test and maybe we could learn something from it?

Kirbyvv
05-26-2011, 01:38 PM
Bottom line is physics. If a single prop is turning left, it pushes on the water, rolling the boat to the right. Put the driver on the left side and some of the torque is balanced. Mr. Rowe should look for a solas 15 x 19 or 15 x 21 LH prop. They are about the only stainless props currently available for older volvo drives. I run a solas 15 x 21 LH with a sbc and port (left) side helm. It works.

BUIZILLA
05-26-2011, 02:20 PM
we have a NEW 19" LH Solas if your interested

should be exactly what you need

contact me by PM if interested

thanx, Jim

Donzi_Dude
05-26-2011, 04:41 PM
I think you should buy BZ's prop if you're so interested and give it to Steve Rowe to satisfy your curiosity, and regarding your new question about Vee drives they too are effected by the same law of physics including straight inboards but years ago hp was low and boats were normally larger and heavy so the problem wasn't an issue.
....


na, im not that interested and its not my loss anyway you look @ it. i was just trying to help the OP out. it did spur an intersting debate.


as in a 400+HP 427 1967 barrelback v-drive with NOS?

LoL!

bzsmarina
05-26-2011, 05:15 PM
matty it will be sent by the end of next week. as for hi-jacking the thread, all i did was offer a prop. thats all. if thay wanted to try it or not. thats it.... yes i turn mine rt but it works for me... dont mean it would work for everyone. just offering it. forget it its not for sale..... man unreal

Walt. H.
05-26-2011, 08:54 PM
na, im not that interested and its not my loss anyway you look @ it. i was just trying to help the OP out. it did spur an intersting debate.
as in a 400+HP 427 1967 barrelback v-drive with NOS?
LoL!
I've noticed you try to spur too many debates here mostly inflammatory ones, and it has come to the attention of many as being annoyingly troll like sorry to say whether you realize it or not.

Just Say N20
05-27-2011, 07:05 AM
Oh the irony. . . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony