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thickone71
05-19-2011, 11:18 AM
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I just bought a donzi sweet sixteen , it has a 351 windsor with a berkley jet drive . at high speed it wants to turn on its own . its has a place diverter for trim adjustment . wondering if i should put a fin on the hull maybe it would stop it from wanting to turn on its own . its a hand full to operate at high speed . can anybody help. also wondering if anybody knows what year it is there is no id tag on the boat.

yeller
05-19-2011, 07:26 PM
I had a 16C with a jet and it handled like a dream. Never experienced what you are mentioning, but mine wasn't an actual Donzi. It was a copy. It is possible yours is a copy also, because I'm not sure if Donzi ever put a jet on a 16.
I'm no expert on the history, so I could easily be wrong about Donzi and jets.

Post some pics of the boat, engine and drive. It will make it easier for people here to help you identify it.

silverghost
05-19-2011, 08:52 PM
Donzi did indeed build Jet-drive 16s in the early to mid 1970s.
There was a yellow 16 Donzi /Berkeley Jet pack in Ocean City NJ around 1973-75.
I last saw it for sale in a south Jersey boatyard about seven years ago.
It was in very sad shape at that time.

As many also know my family owned a Donzi X-18 Olds 455 / Berkeley jet-pack that was bought new in 1972 at the big Philly boat show.
We owned that X-18 for five seasons.
I loved that boat.

We never had any steering torque-steer issues with our X-18 waterJet.
Ours rode like it was on rails.

Exactly what is your steering issue ?
Does it pull to one side all the time ?
OR~
Only if you release the steering wheel ?
There is a great aftermarket service manual available out there for these jet-drives.
I have one~ as well as an original Berkeley service manual.

Call me if you have any jet- drive questons~~~
We should be able to sort any issues you have on these jet-drives.

You have a rare boat there IF it is a real jet Donzi 16 & not a splash clone copy.
They are a real blast !

Enjoy your new Jet Donzi 16

silverghost
05-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Another thought~

You may want to contact American Turbine as they sell their own jets & now own Berkeley also.
They supply used & new parts for several other older jet-drive brands.

MOP
05-19-2011, 09:04 PM
IMO there must be some sort of adjustment, I have been in a couple of jets they rode on rails no pull to either side.

thickone71
05-21-2011, 12:04 PM
if i let my hands of wheel it still wants to go left or right and the wheel doesnt turn .

thickone71
05-21-2011, 12:14 PM
seems to pull left or right only when most of the hull is out of the water .doesnt matter if my hands are on the wheel or not . seems like if boat leans to left , the left part of hull grabs water and wants to turn sharp same with if boat leans to right. like how a bike rides lean it and it will turn that way. As for the age of boat , what year where these donzi copys made , do i have an original or a copy.
63862

silverghost
05-21-2011, 01:09 PM
Donzi built their jets mostly from 1972 to 1977 .
The clone copy "Splash" boats have been built by many over the decades.
Some are better than others.
From your photos to me it looks very much like a "spash" copy & not a true Donzi built boat.
That's OK~
It looks like a great boat.
At any rate you should not be having this jet nozzle steering issue.
Most jet-drives run like they are on rails; and are very stable at any speed..
Jets usually do not suffer from torque steer.
The discharge nozzle appears to be very high on your boat compared to the unit our family once owned.
You night need to add a droop drop nozzle snoot discharge unit to get your jet pump's dscharge lower in the water. Some add-on nozzles also have a built-in steering rudder fin .
The bottom hull may also differ from the Donzi-built 16s also .
You could have similar hull performance issues that the Four Winns "U" 17 & 19 splash donzi clones have ?
Is your steering cale & helm unit tight with no side play & sloppyness ?
Without actually being there & driving your boat It's hard to tell if you have a jet pump & nozzle, or a hull issue.
I would call the guys at American Turbine

By the way~
What a great area you live & boat in.
Love those million $$$ views !

Rumblefish
05-21-2011, 06:28 PM
Nice Boat.. Nice video!.. Dog seems calm even with the loss of steering..

My thoughts are you may have a little too much stern lift and possible the bottom pad is too light to maintain steering so it drifts ..

I know the rooster tail is cool with the place diverter but try to trim it lighter and let the boat run flatter to pick up the forward part of the bottom.

mrfixxall
05-21-2011, 08:00 PM
First you will need to check the nozzle for any play,then determine where the play is,,steering cable,nozzle pivot points ot the steering helm..any play in the steering and the boat will do all kinds of funky stuff..

A rudder under the nozzle will do wonders,helps with low speed docking and will keep the boat from wandering from side to side at high speeds..

http://www.berkeleyjet.com/p-425-aluminum-rudder-kit.aspx

silverghost
05-21-2011, 08:43 PM
Fixx I believe is on the right track here.

The Place Diverter uses another style rudder fin.
NOT the one on that web-link.
Click on the "rudder" link on the Berkeley site to see several add-on rudder fins used with your place diverter.
The droop drop snoot will also get the jet discharge nozzel to sit lower in the water.
I'd be tempted to add both the rudder fin & the droop drop snoot.
The idea is to keep the pump discharge nozzel low & actually IN the water.
When you spray a big rooster tail spray you waste foreward pump energy & your nozzel steering also suffers badly.
The pump's discharge nozzel really needs to stay slightly underwater.

Can you get us a few better close-up photos of the outside jet drive unit ?
A side profile view of the outside jet drive would also be helpful.
This steering issue should have an easy repair fix .

silverghost
05-21-2011, 08:58 PM
The transom's chine to bottom hull area looks exactly like the Four Winns "U" 17 & 19 design.
Donzi 16s & 18s do not have this sort of chine area.
Could this donzi "Splash" clone builder have used the old Four Winns hull molds ; or a Four Winns "U" boat as a hull mold plug ?
This Four Winns hull design was short lived because of several serious handling problem issues.
Do a search on this site for seveal threads talking about these problem issues.
The "U" boats tended to roll on their sides & and also suffered from "Bow Steer" & "Chinewalk" at higher speeds.
The smaller "U" boats also tended to porpose.
These issues were with the duoprop outdrive and not Berkeley jet drive.

silverghost
05-21-2011, 10:06 PM
Your new photos did not attach & come though.
Please try again.

I really believe your boat is a "Splash" clone & not a true Donzi.
BUT~
Don't feel bad~
It's still a super nice speedboat.

thickone71
05-21-2011, 10:11 PM
63867[/ATTACH[ATTACH]6386863869 thanks you guys for the help i hope it itsnt a splash model and it the orginal .

maddad
05-21-2011, 10:29 PM
Thickone, that is some hook in the bottom of that boat. I wonder if it or the extra trim to overcome it are part of your handling issues. All 16' donzis had a hook molded into the outermost part of the hull, but at the lifting strake the bottom should be flat and straight. This is the best pic I have to show you what I mean.

thickone71
05-21-2011, 10:34 PM
thanks for the input but do you mean the curve at the back of hull , i just ordered a diverter fin hoping that fixes the problem . do think i have an orgianal donzi 16

maddad
05-21-2011, 10:44 PM
In the photo on the trailer, the strake sitting on the bunk has a rainbow shape that won't let the nose come up without a ton of trim.

thickone71
05-21-2011, 10:46 PM
hi thanks for your input you must have a sweet sixteen donzi in the pic there . still dont understand what you mean to me the hull pic of your boat and mine look very similar . people are telling me i have a splash model not the real thing . i payed 6500.00 for the boat hope i did all right but i bought it because i was told it was a donzi

maddad
05-21-2011, 10:52 PM
If you look at the photo of the bottom I posted you'll notice that even though there's a hook/curve at the outermost and rear part of the hull, the bottom where the lifting strakes are is very straight and flat. Yours looks like it has a large hook/curve where it should be very flat.

silverghost
05-21-2011, 11:16 PM
You got one heck of a good deal at that price.
Wish I could find one like that around my area.

Don't be too upset about this "Splash" clone idea.
Donzi built very few jet-drive boats. They were all built in the early to mid-1970s.

Some clues that tell me this is a "Splash" and not a real Donzi.
The extreme curved "Hook" in the aft hull area..
The seating is all different~
Especially the rear seating. Look at other Donzi 16s on this site.

There should be 4 clamshell vents on the aft engine bay deck.
No lifting/mooring rings
The stern navigation light is not a pole-light like Donzi used.
The gas fill is off to the side.
The engine hatch & cover is higher and not exactly the same as Donzi. Is it padded ?
The Donzi hatch has a large hatch lock knob just behind the rear bench seat with "Donzi" cast into it.
GUYS~ Weigh-on on other non-Donzi features on this boat.
Few Donzi jet-drive 16s are known to exist today.
Few were ever built by Donzi.
I am 99.95% sure that this is a "Splash" clone & NOT a real Donzi.
Be asured~
I am not knocking your boat.
It IS a fantastic jet-boat !

mrfixxall
05-21-2011, 11:38 PM
thanks for the input but do you mean the curve at the back of hull , i just ordered a diverter fin hoping that fixes the problem . do think i have an orgianal donzi 16


if you dont have the mounting tap casted into the back of the nozzle the tab i posted may not work..
call berkeley and give them your model # of the pump to see if theirs one for your pump style..

looks like someonr put a bead of sealer around the pump..stand on the end of the pump and put weight up and down on it and see if the transm flexs..

silverghost
05-21-2011, 11:53 PM
I just blew-up the last photo of your drive & wonder why there is a long bolt & top washer where your steering cable ram arm & it's steering clevis attach to the drive.
The clevis should be sitting directly on the drive's cast aluminum steering arm +housing.
NOT up in the air on a long bolt like in your picture.
I don't like that very long bolt.
Could this be giving you the steering sloppyness ?
Should there be a solid spacer tube under that clevis between the drives cast steeing arm + housing & your clevis ?

MOP
05-22-2011, 07:38 AM
Looking at he bottom shot you will not over come the action of that hook with a jet, even with an I/O it would require a ton of extra trim. IMO nothing short of structural will cure your problem that hook is mean! Also like mentioned the steering bolt is another very iffy item, having exposed thread is a very weak link. The bolt should be coming down hard on a spacer with a bushing to allow the clevis to move freely. Fix the steering and enjoy it the way it is for this season but at lower speeds! Then if you have the where with all pull the deck cut the stringers out make new ones to fix the bottom it will never run right the way it is. With that much hook you are experiencing bow steer at speed. Another thing that has me curious is the spacer blocks at the bell housing, the Berkly we had as our para glider boat was bolted directly to the the other housing.

joseph m. hahnl
05-22-2011, 08:07 AM
I just blew-up the last photo of your drive & wonder why there is a long bolt & top washer where your steering cable ram arm & it's steering clevis attach to the drive.
The clevis should be sitting directly on the drive's cast aluminum steering arm +housing.
NOT up in the air on a long bolt like in your picture.
I don't like that very long bolt.
Could this be giving you the steering sloppyness ?
Should there be a solid spacer tube under that clevis between the drives cast steeing arm + housing & your clevis ?


http://www.balloonmaniacs.com/images/slotmachinejackpotballoon.jpg


No way in hell is that right. That bolt will flex all over the place eventually breaking from fatigue.If anything that should be a shoulder bolt. A shoulder bolt has a larger diameter then the threads, allowing the shoulder to tighten down with out bottoming out the threads in a blind hole.I bet there is all kinds of slop from the hole clearance being to large from a too long, too small diameter screw. Most likely some one used the a too long of a screw to get a shoulder on it. It would also work with a tie rod ball. which would allow it to pivot up and down side to side. which is more likely what was originally there. Your best bet is to find one to go look at, so you can see what exactly is the correct connection method.

http://www.californiamarine.com/images/catalina/medium/141030.jpg (http://www.californiamarine.com/images/catalina/large/141030.jpg)
http://i.ebayimg.com/12/!C!p5vY!!2k~$(KGrHqR,!hwE0EiJPle1BND77ylNR!~~_12.J PG


Sea Doo Uses a Ball connection.

Instructions



Things You'll Need





Metric wrench set
Steering cable



1 Follow the steering stem into the inside of the hull of the Seadoo. The steering stem is the metal tube that extends off the handlebars into the watercraft. On its end you will find a steering stem arm where the steering cable connects.







2 Remove the nut that secures the steering cable ball joint to the steering arm with a wrench.


3 Remove the steering cable connection at the jet pump by removing the nut that secures it to the ball joint.


4 Unscrew the nut that retains the steering cable where it passes through the hull at the rear of the Seadoo. Remove the half rings, rubber washer (http://www.ehow.com/how_8005250_change-cable-95-seadoo-gtx.html#) and retaining ring.


5 Remove the steering cable from the tie blocks and clips by pulling it out horizontally. This connection is just past the jet pump connection.


6 Install (http://www.ehow.com/how_8005250_change-cable-95-seadoo-gtx.html#) the new cable by reversing the above steps. Pay attention to the condition of the ball joints. If they are pitted or damaged in any way, replace with a new ball joint.




Read more: How to Change the Steering Cable in a 95 Seadoo GTX | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/how_8005250_change-cable-95-seadoo-gtx.html#ixzz1N5HFKUyR) http://www.ehow.com/how_8005250_change-cable-95-seadoo-gtx.html#ixzz1N5HFKUyR

Greg Guimond
05-22-2011, 09:39 AM
Good grab and no doubt a big part of the problem.............

Greg Guimond
05-22-2011, 09:48 AM
To confirm your hull is a splash, jack the boat up when on the trailer, block it, then get out the 6' straight edge and start taking pictures :yes:

yeller
05-22-2011, 11:59 AM
My thoughts are you may have a little too much stern lift and possible the bottom pad is too light to maintain steering so it drifts ..

I know the rooster tail is cool with the place diverter but try to trim it lighter and let the boat run flatter to pick up the forward part of the bottom.My 16C jet ran straight as an arrow, but adimittedly I did not have a place diverter. Rumblefish may be right that your trim is lightening up the stern too much. Do you have the same steering problem at neutral trim?

A rudder under the nozzle will do wonders,helps with low speed docking and will keep the boat from wandering from side to side at high speeds..FWIW I never ran a rudder on mine. When I took it off, I never noticed any difference in high or low speed handling so I left it off.

looks like someonr put a bead of sealer around the pump..stand on the end of the pump and put weight up and down on it and see if the transm flexs..Definately shouldn't need any sealer there. I'm guessing the o-ring is bad.....or even missing. Transom shouldn't flex because jets are mounted to the hull bottom. They go through the transom, but don't actually contact it.

The discharge nozzle appears to be very high on your boat compared to the unit our family once owned.Looks to be the same height as my 16. The jet's transom ring is touching the bottom of the hull, so it can't go any lower.


I agree with Silverghost that this probably a splash. Does anyone know if Donzi notched the back seat on the 16 jets they made? I'm guessing the raised center section on the back seat is to clear the motor. I had to do the same thing on mine, but to a lesser extent. I could have installed a different style jet that would have prevented the seat notching, so I'd have to take a guess that is the route Donzi would have taken.

silverghost
05-22-2011, 03:14 PM
Yeller:
Donzi did NOT notch their rear bench seats on their Berkeley jet-drive 16s or their jet 18s & X-18s in the 1970s.
We owned a 1972 Donzi X-18 Olds 455/Berkeley jet & I had friends who also owned a 1973 Donzi 16 jet.
Same rear straight seats as the I/O boats.
This boat MUST be a "Splash" copy someone in Canada put-together.
I never saw a similar style "splash" hull here in the USA.

silverghost
05-22-2011, 03:53 PM
The transom bulkhead seal fitting were the steering tube penetrates your hull should be ale to pivot in all directions~
Side-to-side
&
Up -and-down

Somone smeared silicone sealer all around your steering support tube bulkhead fitting.
Perhapps this is why someone later added that very long & incorrect steering bolt ?
It shoud NOT be that way~
It looks like an accident waiting to happen.
That clevis should be sitting on top of that "Place Diverter" steering arm. NOT hanging that high on a long bolt with a washer.
I agree with Joseph on a SS shoulder bolt used with that type of clevis.
That type of clevis allows swingng movment up & down + side-to-side.

thickone71
05-22-2011, 04:02 PM
i took a measurment of the hook in the hull its 3/4 of an inch . is it possible i have a donzi but someone made it into a jet drive. You can see in the deck the old holes for something at the back where there should have been 4 scoops to the engine bay . cant see any marks in the deck for where the proper gas tank fill tube would have been though . did donzi have a double floor in it . mine does and its not just plywood its all fiber glassed in . some one cut that notch out of back seat to clear the engine . to me it looks like a lot fab work was done to put the jet in this boat and donst look like factory work either.

thickone71
05-22-2011, 04:20 PM
63915

63916

63917i put a spacer in that long bolt for steering cable, the cable and steering box are brand new but there is a little bit of slop in it even with new cable and box . where did donzi put there serial number on the hull on the sixteens

silverghost
05-22-2011, 05:53 PM
MOP:
Those bell-housing to Berkeley drive spacers are very odd indeed and not normal on any Berkeley jet-drive set-up I have ever seen.
I agree~
Normally the bell-housing is bolted directly to the jet- drive pump's housing.
Perhapps a mis-match of old odds & ends parts put together here ?

silverghost
05-25-2011, 07:29 PM
The pump intake grate looks to be heavily corroded & patched on the left (port) side.
There is a section on the intake grate casting missing on the other side also.
Our 1972 Donzi X-18 jet-drive pump was not configured like this unit.
We had no add-on place diverter, and our Berkeley jet pump was a totally different model pushing out the transom more & with another style intake grate.
We had no blocked & shimmed-up bell-housing.
Re: steering~
I would try to get the steering cable ram to sit directly on top of the place diverter steering arm.
You may have to buy a new through-hull bulkhead steering support tube fitting; as yours is patched-up with silicone.
This bulkhead steering fitting should pivot in all directions & should not be fixed in position.
I would guess that the prior owner used that extra long steering bolt because it was damaged & would no longer pivot.
Re:
Hook issue.
I believe as MOP has stated that your hull's hook is very severe ~
But it can be fixed with some extreme fiberglass & stringer repair efforts.

Let us know if the place diverter add-on rudder is of any help with your dangerous higher speed steering issues.

Keep us up-dated
Good Luck !

Christian
05-26-2011, 11:13 PM
Donzi did indeed build Jet-drive 16s in the early to mid 1970s.
There was a yellow 16 Donzi /Berkeley Jet pack in Ocean City NJ around 1973-75.
I last saw it for sale in a south Jersey boatyard about seven years ago.
It was in very sad shape at that time.

As many also know my family owned a Donzi X-18 Olds 455 / Berkeley jet-pack that was bought new in 1972 at the big Philly boat show.
We owned that X-18 for five seasons.
I loved that boat.

We never had any steering torque-steer issues with our X-18 waterJet.
Ours rode like it was on rails.

Exactly what is your steering issue ?
Does it pull to one side all the time ?
OR~
Only if you release the steering wheel ?
There is a great aftermarket service manual available out there for these jet-drives.
I have one~ as well as an original Berkeley service manual.

Call me if you have any jet- drive questons~~~
We should be able to sort any issues you have on these jet-drives.

You have a rare boat there IF it is a real jet Donzi 16 & not a splash clone copy.
They are a real blast !

Enjoy your new Jet Donzi 16



Tiny Tim was the name of that Donzi, at least that one was from the same area and also had yellow, and an olds engine. loved the sound of that boat coming up the lagoon!

silverghost
05-26-2011, 11:40 PM
Christian~

It's a small world indeed.
The Ocean City NJ boating world is , and always was , a small tight community of boats.

Everyone knows everybody .

Do you also remember my Dad's wooden lapstrake 22 Lyman the "WE THREE"
Dad owned it since new in 1963 , and just sold it seven years ago.
He bought it new in Somers Point NJ at Stanley Haynes's old Pacemaker, Allglass, & Lyman dealership.

You most likely know my red 24 foot American Skier Super-Eagle boat on the Sunny Harbor lagoon Walnut St. side ?

Where are YOU located ?

Christian
05-29-2011, 09:10 AM
Hi Brad,

I dont beleive i remember your dads lap strake well. Although there werent too many of those. Our family is from margate, 1st lagoon from the inlet, sunset lagoon. I am working on a little apache 21 scout at the boat shop, you should drop by if youd like. Dad still owns the 18, that came from OC, right accross from the CG station, honey and red are its colors.

Chris
215.510.8007

silverghost
06-11-2011, 08:48 PM
Did you ever install that Place Diverter nozzle rudder fin ?

If-So ~
Did it help at all with your high speed handling & steering issues ?

We need an update.

chris gaede
04-10-2012, 12:22 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]
T he rudder made a big difference steering is better but lost some power and speed thats the trade off i guess . N ow back to fact that its a splash and not a donzi . who made these splash copies ? Is there any way of finding out where the boat came from and who made it with no numbers. Did some back yard boat builder make this boat ? With a hook on the hull at the back i wonder .

chris gaede
04-10-2012, 12:29 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]
As to the back seat noched out for engine room i was thinking of moving engine back and getting rid of spacers inbetween bell housing and jet drive , but was wondering if this would put to much weight in the rear of the boat and this is why it was built like this in the first place .