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Papu
04-15-2011, 12:37 PM
http://www.beverlyportmarina.com/images/Donzi/18Class/Donzi%2018%20Classic.pdf

Rootsy
04-15-2011, 12:41 PM
Jesus H... I could probably buy a junker, pull mold, lay up a hull and rig it completely with top shelf items for that price... holy wha...

Papu
04-15-2011, 12:54 PM
Its brand new, never been titled.
Thats why its now $44,000.

Just Say N20
04-15-2011, 02:55 PM
Of course.

fogducker III
04-15-2011, 03:06 PM
$45,000 WITHOUT even a trailer....:eek:

Good luck with that sale..........:lookaroun:

gmcars10
04-15-2011, 05:05 PM
Oldest shell game in the book. $57838 is stated as the price INCLUDING the trailer ($3995) yet $44,900 is the price without the trailer, stating you are saving $12,938.

I am a little slow but how is that saving almost 13000???

:pimp:

RW2003
04-15-2011, 05:22 PM
The way I read it.... the $3995 for the trailer is not included in any of the quoted prices.

Either way... a bit too rich for me.

gmcars10
04-15-2011, 05:59 PM
Read the ad carefully, the trailer is included in the LIST price then NOT included in the selling price. Read it carefully. Thats why it's the oldest scam in the book. Look at the price of the boat without the trailer, then subtract the savings they state of 12,900. Guess what, it doesen't come out to the same number they have!

...............sorry, I just re-read the ad and see the price for freight and prep was what I mistook for the trailer. Not a scam just a whole lot of money. Wonder why it hasn't sold in the last 2 or 3 years?

Inferno
04-15-2011, 06:36 PM
With todays economy in the tank and banks not lending I want to meet the person that can purchase a 3 year old (soon to be 4 ) 18 foot boat for $44,000+3080 tax= $47,080.000. I met alot of high rollers and would be flattered to meet this one. Good luck in your sale.:wink:

f_inscreenname
04-15-2011, 11:04 PM
That's what a new 18 goes for???
OMG

Ghost
04-15-2011, 11:49 PM
Normally, I wouldn't comment on an ad, but since this seems to be an off-the-board new boat and everyone's doing it...

FWIW, I would not even pay $25k for this 18. I'd head straight for Scott Pearson's orange '68 barrelback with whatever fundage I'd even offer for this new one.

boating101
04-16-2011, 07:44 AM
I made an offer on this boat in excess of the number you put on it, subject to an inspection only (which should not be an issue with a new boat), and I was told the owner thought the boat was worth much more.

As you have stated, GOOD LUCK WITH THE SALE.

Just Say N20
04-16-2011, 07:58 AM
Read the ad carefully, the trailer is included in the LIST price then NOT included in the selling price. Read it carefully. Thats why it's the oldest scam in the book. Look at the price of the boat without the trailer, then subtract the savings they state of 12,900. Guess what, it doesen't come out to the same number they have!

...............sorry, I just re-read the ad and see the price for freight and prep was what I mistook for the trailer. Not a scam just a whole lot of money. Wonder why it hasn't sold in the last 2 or 3 years?

I realize you corrected your first statement. But I have to point out the ad seemed about as clear about the trailer as it could be. There is another thread going on between a few people with regard to a 2-boat deal that has not turned out well, because of apparent "misunderstandings." This points out the need to be very careful to understand what is being said in financial transactions.

I have been kinda waiting for Zelatore to jump in regarding the boat's price, because of his experience as a boat dealer. There is nowhere near the margin in boats as people seem to think there is. I would not be surprised if they were offering this boat at their cost or below, just to get out from under it.

And yes, this is what "new" Donzi Classics cost. His List Price quote seems accurate. Pricing of Donzi Classics has always been in the "premium" category. There are many statements by members on this site regarding memories of how much they, or their parents paid for a new classic back when, with statements about how much a new Corvette of the same vintage cost.

I don't know how the dealer came to own the boat. He could have bought the boat from the factory believing he would be able to sell it within a few month time period. He could have done a trade with another dealer for a boat he had, and received the Donzi as part of the deal. However he got it, the market disappeared, and he still has it, and is most likely making payments on it.

Financially he needs to get out of it to minimize his losses from holding onto the boat any longer, hence the reduced price. We can discuss all day long at what price WE think the boat should be offered for, but at this point in time the price is what the "owner" of the boat is willing to accept for it.

Boat dealerships provide a valuable service to the majority of boaters, unlike many of us who do almost all of our own work on our boats, who need to have repairs done. For dealers to remain in business, they have to make a profit.

Realistically, the value of these boats seems to be based more on condition of the boat, than the age of the boat, as evidenced by Eugene's absolutely phenomenal 1971 Classic 18 selling in the $30,000 range. ( http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58750 ). Who wouldn't pay top dollar to own one of the exceptional boats from this site, if given the chance?

Were I in the market for a "new" Donzi classic 18, perhaps I would consider this boat. In reality, if in a few years there were 2 used Donzis for sale, that had both been maintained to the same level, and both had 100 hours of use, one being this boat, and the other a 2010, what would be the difference in value be between them? They both had the same amount of use, 100 hours, and both had been cared for the same way. Would the fact that the older boat sat new and unused for 4 years at a dealership really reduce its value by that much?

Just a different perspective I wanted to throw out there.

Buddyc
04-16-2011, 08:17 AM
Being a 2009 and eventhough it hasnt been titled, isnt it really a 2 year old boat at the end of the day.

boating101
04-16-2011, 08:18 AM
This boat was at the boat show in January/February 2010 with a sold tag on its windshield. As it turned out, the buyer's financing was not approved.

I use to be involved with a car dealership, and I quickly learned that if you own something wrong, you must do what you have to to sell the vehicle or you will remain the owner as the value keeps decreasing (cut your losses).

I believe this boat is new, but I also know it is now three years old, which does change its value.

As a potential buyer, I would pay a fair price for this boat, but definitely not $45,000.00. At $45,000.00, there are a lot of nicer alternatives.

Papu
04-16-2011, 09:42 AM
I bought a 2006 ZF from this outfit and they dealt with me very fairly. It was also new and untitled. They got Mercruiser and Donzi both to honor the mechanicals and hull with brand new warranties, and since I had no trade in, gave me a brand new aluminum trailer. Saved $50,000 off the cost of a 2011 and got a free trailer as well. The only problem with the place is that in their html code <metaname="keywords" content= > the search engines cannot seem to find them. I mentioned this to them, by the way. Had no idea this would become one of "those" threads. See you on the water.
Phil

boating101
04-16-2011, 10:57 AM
I think they are no longer a Donzi dealer, and all their product is from 2009 or earlier. This may change things as it relates to how they handle warranties.

zelatore
04-16-2011, 12:56 PM
I started writing a very long multi-page story about average dealer margin at MSRP vs costs vs actual selling price and realized nobody but the really geeky would want to read it.

To make it very brief, dealers don't usually make as much as you think. People see big price tags on boats. Be it $50,000 for an 18' Donzi, or $500,000 for a 45' yacht, or $5,000,000 for an 80' yacht. But the costs of actually selling a boat are pretty high as well, and the discounts the buyers ask for usually go up in proportion to the MSRP.

(btw, even in the best of times I've never sold a boat at full MSRP)

So although I don't know the margin or costs on a new Donzi (I can speculate) I wouldn't be surprised at all if the dealer is actually loosing money on this boat.

The key here is it's old. Yes, it may be unsold and still 'new' with full warranties, but that only adds so much to it's value compared to a same-year used boat. Dealers HATE it when boats have birthdays in inventory!

I see the same thing happen at many dealers. They price a boat at a high number initially - the thinking is you can always lower the price but you can't raise it later. But if the boat sits around until the new model year stuff appears they'd better be ready to dump it and wash their hands. At that point they'd better give up any ideas of making money and just hope to break even. Keep in mind that every month the boat sits there it's incurring additional costs to the dealer in the form of flooring payments and upkeep. The problem comes when a dealer doesn't pick the right time to cut his losses (profits) and sell the inventory come what may. Sometimes they do this because they are holding out thinking they can still make money on it, or more recently they simply don't have the depth to cover the pay-off on the flooring. Then they get into a downward spiral where the boat keeps depreciating while still incurring additional costs to the dealer. He usually keeps lowering his asking price, but the loss he's taking gets bigger and bigger. Painful as it is, it's usually better to just take the hit up-front, move the boat, and start over with new inventory. If you have the depth to do so, that is.

(of course, the idea is not to get to this point in the first place!)

I know of several boats right now in this endless spiral. The dealer is upside down on it and literally 'can't afford to sell it'. Yes, they know what it's really worth and what they could move it for, but they don't have the depth to cover the payoff. So they sit there, month in and month out, with what seems like a ridiculous asking price. Either they'll eventually find somebody to pay the asking price or they'll come up with the funds to sell it at a loss, or they'll dump it back on the bank.

Sounds like a familiar story, doesn't it?

zelatore
04-16-2011, 01:03 PM
I made an offer on this boat in excess of the number you put on it, subject to an inspection only (which should not be an issue with a new boat), and I was told the owner thought the boat was worth much more.

As you have stated, GOOD LUCK WITH THE SALE.

And that fits exactly with my above downward spiral example. I've seen dealers turn away offers thinking they could get more. A year later they're still sitting on the boat; it's cost them considerably more money while it's been in inventory; and they end up selling it for less anyway!

(btw, the same goes for brokerage/used boats)



FWIW, I would not even pay $25k for this 18. I'd head straight for Scott Pearson's orange '68 barrelback with whatever fundage I'd even offer for this new one.

Now THAT would be a smart move! First, because Pearson's boat is outstanding, but secondly, because it's pretty much a new boat at a fully depreciated price. The 'new' boat is at the steepest part of it's depreciation curve while Scott's boat (with good upkeep) may not appreciate but certainly won't be depreciating anything like the new one.

But mostly it's smart because that orange boat is just so damn cool. :pimp:

zelatore
04-16-2011, 01:06 PM
I use to be involved with a car dealership, and I quickly learned that if you own something wrong, you must do what you have to to sell the vehicle or you will remain the owner as the value keeps decreasing (cut your losses).

Now see, why did it take me 1000 words to say the same thing?

Damn I'm a long-winded bastard sometimes! :shocking:

Papu
04-16-2011, 03:17 PM
I think they are no longer a Donzi dealer, and all their product is from 2009 or earlier. This may change things as it relates to how they handle warranties.

This is true of most dealers that used to handle Donzi's.
I had been looking for this exact boat (the ZF) for six months before I found it. The reason being CG reg's no longer allow 500 HP on a 26. Plus the 26 Donzi has a double step hull, the equivalent Proline and Egdewater boats do not. Donzi hasn't made the 26 since 2006 so when I found the boat I was delighted. Its going to be weird as its faster that my 300 HP 18 ft classic. Really looking fwd to summer and seeing Bill's (Just Say N2O) restoration.

VetteLT193
04-18-2011, 08:06 AM
The bottom line to this thread is Donzi makes a premium boat. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Papu
04-18-2011, 08:22 AM
The bottom line to this thread is Donzi makes a premium boat. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That really is what its all about.
That being said, however, I am immediately putting the boat title into an LLC and will depreciate it over seven years. Maintenance and fuel will be tax deductable as well. On paper, seven years from now, the boat will be worthless. But it will also have been as close to free as possible. If you are considering buying a boat with a dumper that has room enough to sleep two people you should talk to your accountant about this option.
See you on the water!

zelatore
04-18-2011, 09:38 AM
That really is what its all about.
That being said, however, I am immediately putting the boat title into an LLC and will depreciate it over seven years. Maintenance and fuel will be tax deductable as well. On paper, seven years from now, the boat will be worthless. But it will also have been as close to free as possible. If you are considering buying a boat with a dumper that has room enough to sleep two people you should talk to your accountant about this option.
See you on the water!


We've done similar things with yachts on occasion, but not often as it can get complicated. I haven't been involved directly with any of those deals so I can't say what issues there may be; perhaps it's a CA thing on my end.

But the short of it is, there are assorted tax loopholes out there.

Which brings up a whole other discussion about taxes and politics and things we best not talk about...:wink:

Papu
04-18-2011, 09:58 AM
Agreed

roadtrip se
04-18-2011, 03:13 PM
Standard mark-up is 30%. There is value in the warranties, so it would be worth more than a comparable used boat. A fair price would probably be at 40-45% off to take care of the depreciation. I bought a new Formula this way a year ago and got a smokin' deal.:pimp:

zelatore
04-18-2011, 10:34 PM
Standard mark-up is 30%. There is value in the warranties, so it would be worth more than a comparable used boat. A fair price would probably be at 40-45% off to take care of the depreciation. I bought a new Formula this way a year ago and got a smokin' deal.:pimp:

ours was less than 30%....but they were bigger boats

silverghost
04-18-2011, 11:37 PM
Years ago I bought a new 1 1/2 year-old left over Formula for $5grand less than I offered for this very same boat the spring season before~~~
I paid in cash~~~
The NJ boat dealer was loosing big money quickly on un-sold floorplan boats.
He was over extended.
He later went belly-up.
It was RPM Marine in Somers Point NJ.
They had just re-located to a new bigger facility the old Patcong Harbor Marina~~~ from their old former low overhead Shell gas station boat lot.

My Uncle also got a super deal on a 2 year old New left-over Wellcraft St. Tropez from Jack's Marine just off the Deleware River.
Jack also went under later that Summer.
This was i believe in 1990.

There are some really great new boat deals around today~~~

Chalk-it-up to the poor economy & high fuel prices.
Not a good time to be in the new boat, or boatbuilding business.
It's a boat buyer's market !