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View Full Version : solas titan vs. bigg grizz performance props



maddad
04-13-2011, 04:06 PM
Actually I am the one who is selling them, The internet one isn't the same, all who have posted have gotten theirs through me. Read the Donzi org. post on solas prop testing. The prop you are using got me started on this project. BTW they no longer make that prop!. I bet that where the blade meets the hub is pitted.
I recall Randy posting this and was wondering....
If I buy a Solas Titan from a dealer, are they now the same props that Randy originally had/developed with them or just the base prop they started working with. I'd like to get another lh23" to send out for more pitch and want to know if I should try and scare up one of the BGPP props or just get the advertised prop. Does anyone know for sure? Thanks,
Mike

f_inscreenname
04-13-2011, 04:37 PM
I don't know but what other option do you have?? An 30 year old Ultra for 400+ bucks.

MOP
04-13-2011, 05:39 PM
I have been speaking with another member about this self same thing, he contacted the factory Solas is no longer making the same props Griz was getting. The member is doing more research on finding the Griz props, I directed him to Matty and also recommended trying to contact Griz's son to see if he might have input or any left over props!

Phil

maddad
04-13-2011, 09:11 PM
I don't know but what other option do you have?? An 30 year old Ultra for 400+ bucks.
Good point, unless someone reading this has a 23 from Randy they're not happy with or don't have the power to turn? I already have an ultra and it's not enough.

Same prop...their are others tho that solas makes for the aq drive..
your best bet would is to call the prop guy i use,he is a solas dealer and he can tune a prop for your donzi and he knows the classics..
http://www.dahpropellers.com/
I checked out their site and will give them a call about my issues. Thanks.

I have been speaking with another member about this self same thing, he contacted the factory Solas is no longer making the same props Griz was getting. The member is doing more research on finding the Griz props, I directed him to Matty and also recommended trying to contact Griz's son to see if he might have input or any left over props!
Phil
Hey Phil, are they looking for more pitch to lower the rpms?
I'll send Matty an e-mail also, he was behind a lot of the testing when these props were first out.

Just Say N20
04-13-2011, 09:48 PM
I have been trying to get to the bottom of this Titan = Grizz Solas, or Titan ≠ Grizz Solas.

I don't know what good the part numbers do. I have a brand new, never been on the boat Solas 19 I bought from Grizz for my Ski-Sporter restoration project.

I looked everywhere I could think of on the box and on the prop for a part number, and found nothing that would indicate the part number.

The last picture is of the bottom of the box. This was the only printing on the box that didn't look "generic."

maddad
04-13-2011, 09:56 PM
Just Say N20, I noticed that there were no numbers on my prop also. On the Solas site, there appears to be some on the front of the hub.
Most places I look also have no or limited stock on the ones I look at.

mrfixxall
04-13-2011, 10:11 PM
=lenny+solas (http://=lenny+solas)

f_inscreenname
04-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Ya, mine has numbers on the inside.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6705/unled11l.jpg

Just Say N20
04-14-2011, 06:35 AM
Mine has numbers on the inside, exactly like yours, only 19 instead of 21. Is yours a prop from Grizz?

mrfixxall
04-14-2011, 09:21 AM
I guess no Body paid attention,,im just talkin out my aZZ even tho i posted proof..So poof i delete..

Sweet little 16
04-14-2011, 09:24 AM
They may have the same part number but It seams to me from the pictures, the two props are different besides the pitch .

this prop appears to have a shorter hub and no line cutter

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63009&d=1302746739


this prop appears to have a longer hub and a line cutter.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63011&d=1302749194

Just Say N20
04-14-2011, 09:42 AM
Fix, I'm not saying your information is wrong. I'm just curious because when I bought my prop from Randy, he told me you couldn't buy the same solas prop he was selling anywhere else.

He said the Solas props available from other sources (traditional dealers) were not the same as what he was selling. The conversation went no further, so I don't know HOW they were different.

It would be great if they were commonly available.

I don't get the information "poof." I read the entire thread you had linked, and saw the part number on the box of Lenny's prop. I found another post from Lenny, dated 6-4-09, "I have one of Grizz's 21 SOLAS LH props just north of you. Used twice. SS and all."

It would appear you can buy them from other sources.

"Out of stock" http://boatpropellers.iboats.com/Search_All--Propellers/8842-156-21/?cm_guid=1-_-100000000000000485330-_-6058130779&cm_mmc=Google_Main-_-Prop+by+Part%3AGoogle-_-Solas+-+Titan%3AProp+by+Part%3AGoogle-_-8842-156-21+solas_BROAD

"In Stock" And a great price! $100 less than I paid for mine. http://www.savvyboater.com/store/p/4222-Solas-Stainless-Steel-Propeller-8842-156-21.aspx

According to their website, they have the 19 in stock also for the same price. 8842-156-19

maddad
04-14-2011, 10:15 AM
I guess no Body paid attention,,im just talkin out my aZZ even tho i posted proof..So poof i delete..

I'm here enough where I'm having a hard time believing I missed something. I'm sure it wasn't because I wasn't paying attention or thought you were talking out your azz.
Was it proof that they are or aren't the same?

mrfixxall
04-14-2011, 10:34 AM
I'm here enough where I'm having a hard time believing I missed something. I'm sure it wasn't because I wasn't paying attention or thought you were talking out your azz.
Was it proof that they are or aren't the same?


All im saying is part numbers dont lie,,a solas titan is a solas titan,they all come out of the same mold with different hubs pressed in them and some have the rubex hub for multi uses on other mfr's boats..weather or not grizz's props were the same or he could have done something different done to them to perform like grizz wanted that prop to i dont know..

Every prop that come out of a box is not the same any way shape or form,their all different.. So if you guys want performance from this prop you have to spend the extra money and tune the propeller to your boat..

Its like when you go from a stock engine to a performance engine do you use the stock carburetor rite out of the box?? Heck no!!!! you have to tune it to your engine..

Same goes for a performance propeller,,get it tuned for what your application is.

I have a friend that put all this money into his engines in his boat,,he put a set of merc labbed bravo 1's on his 31 thunder,the boat went from 88 mph to 98 mph with the new 540's with 871 huffers on top..that boat should have done well over 100 mph,,i gave him my prop guys number and wow he cracked 109 mph..that was worth the $450.00 he spent to get the props tuned to his boat,,10 mph for $450.00 in prop tuning.

maddad
04-14-2011, 10:43 AM
All im saying is part numbers dont lie,,a solas titan is a solas titan,they all come out of the same mold with different hubs pressed in them and some have the rubex hub for multi uses on other mfr's boats..weather or not grizz's props were the same or he could have done something different done to them to perform like grizz wanted that prop to i dont know..

Every prop that come out of a box is not the same any way shape or form,their all different.. So if you guys want performance from this prop you have to spend the extra money and tune the propeller to your boat..

From talking to Randy, I was under the impression that the ones he was selling were already tweaked for our 24* hulls vs. the stock Titans. That is what I'm trying to confirm.

It would explain the negative slip numbers on a prop stamped 23" at the factory.

maddad
04-14-2011, 10:51 AM
I also just zoomed in on some photos of my prop and there seems to be some numbers on the hub like the other pics here. I'm going to take a look today to see what they are.

silverghost
04-17-2011, 03:23 AM
When I first got into my Benchseat 18 project Randy emailed me to give him a call.
From those great marathon conversations he told me to keep my old Volvo 270 outdrive and use one of HIS Solas props that he was involved in from the start of Solas development through testing.

He stated to me that there was a difference in HIS Solas Titans & the production Solas Titan Volvo props that Solas had planned to eventually add to their prop catalog line-up in 2010 / 2011.
He stated that HIS Solas Titan props had more cupping and needed less "Shimming" than the standard Solas catalog units.
That's all he really said at this time. It's a shame I did not ask Grizz any more questions about this issue.
I got the impression that~~~
Well~~~
He seemed to wish to keep HIS props propritary secrets to himself~~~
I did not push the issue~~~
As many who knew Randy better than I~~~
You did not dare push Grizz too hard on questions he did not wish to answer.
Like me~~~ He had his own strong opnions and was not afraid to voice them to you.
That's why we got along so well .

Please don't get me wrong~~~
He was a Super Guy !
I loved his frankness ,and along with hisDonzi Volvo prop & marine engine experience~~~

Grizz was one of the true Great members of this Donzi.net forum.

We will all sure miss Grizz for many years to come.

It may take some more digging to find out how Randy's props differed from standard Volvo Solas Titan catalog production models.

A real prop expert should do a side-by-side comparison of both Randy's Solas props, and standard Catalog Solas Titans.

tmdog
04-18-2011, 07:37 PM
Randy may of been a great guy---but he was a salesman first.

roadtrip se
04-18-2011, 07:59 PM
I talked to Barbara about this over the weekend. There are no Solas in the garage. There are a few Turbos, which we might help her sell at AOTH.

silverghost
04-18-2011, 10:12 PM
Randy may of been a great guy---but he was a salesman first.


OH~~~
Say it ain't so~~~

Do you think Randy's props were exactly the same as standard Solas catalog production props?

I have no real idea myself~~~
Someone needs to test both props side-by-side on the same Donzi.

joseph m. hahnl
04-20-2011, 05:28 PM
OH~~~
Say it ain't so~~~

Do you think Randy's props were exactly the same as standard Solas catalog production props?

I have no real idea myself~~~
Someone needs to test both props side-by-side on the same Donzi.


No, not the same necessarily> Like Fix said they come out of the same mold . That is where the similarity may end. Props are precision machined on CNC's.so the casting maybe the same but the machining may not be. True, a part number, is a part number. The only way a part number can be the same for two different propellers would be with a revision level .
Like this
part #1234-14 3/4 21p REV A
Part #1234-14 3/4 21p REV B

From a quality stand point, there has to be away to identify one from the other. If the part #'s are Identical, Then it would most likely be that the props were labed after machining. If that where that case it may not have been done by Solas at all, but by a third party.
a pre tuned prop right out of the box, labed to a generic form

found this from Matty boy


the Solas for the AQ volvos were a labor of love for a man who has since passed away . An avid Donzi person and boater. Randy Carabelli "big grizzly" RIP.
I had done some testing for Randy and have run all of the size solas props he worked with them on developing.
The titan is now for sale from Solas but it is just a little different from the ones that Randy was selling.
they come in three different sizes and have very low slip numbers. the highest slip I had seen was 8% 7% was the avg slip number.
they come in 19 21 and 23 pitch but due to the effiencency and diameter over 15.5 inches wide the really perform like a 21 23 and a 25.
I can sum some things up for you. Using a 16 donzi for testing I achieved the most stable top end speed over many other props tested cleaver,chopper ultra,custom spinelli.
I would imagine you are running your nova right?
this is what I found on the 16 with a 310 hp 351w running 1.6 gears and a nose cone on a 21 solas to 4900 rpm this motor could not really turn a 23 . I have no info on the Nova hull, not sure if you are looking for alot of bow lift.
the best speed I got was 62.8 mph the boat was stable rock solid no ventilation,cavitation,chine walk. It was like a new boat compared to every other prop I had tried.
the prop is hooked to the water, even cutting the trottle back hard from WOT the boat acted like a chute was deployed no squierrly action just a quick controlled stop.
the prop carried the 16 well no excess stern or bow lift. The people who like alot of bow lift and really like to fly the nose probably won't like the flat ride attitude of the solas.
It also handled ( or didn't change in handling) rough water the ultra I had always blow out or ventilated in rougher water .
these results are pretty standard on a 16 or 18 classic and even a 20 cig that was volvo powered.
There should be some more detailed information on my testing on www.donzi.org (http://www.donzi.org) search solas prop testing.
It was the first investment I made when I sold the 16 and got the hornet. I have a 23 solas waiting to be put on once the project is done.
Randy loved the story my wife told. I had lent the solas to a friend .she loved the way the boat rode with the solas she didn't get beat up. while my firend had the solas i put an ultra on the 16 my wife and I went for a ride, she noticed right away the boat was squierlly . she said why? I told her I lent the prop out. Her response go over to my friend give her the wrench she'll jump in to the lake and get the prop back.

So really the best testiment for the solas "a passenger who only really cares about where the sun is and working on her tan can tell you how well the solas handles." MISS YA RANDY

maddad
05-07-2011, 05:12 PM
Thanks to madpoodle and the guys at the DMRS who are trying to sell some of the props Randy had left http://www.donzi.org/forum/showthread.php/1971-Props-for-sale I've got my second 23" Solas prop. This is one of the first run of props vs. the one I bought from Randy that was from the second run. A check with a tool that copies profiles showed the blades to be what I would call identical. The difference between the two is the hub and where the blades are set on it.
The first run hub is 5 1/16" and the blades are set as low on the hub as possible. The diameter of the hub is 3/16(3/32" all around) larger than the outside diameter of the zinc and the flat bronze seat of the splines has about a 1/4" space between it and the inside wall of the hub that would let water pass through.
The second run hub is about 5 5/16" long and the blades are set as far aft as possible. The extra hub forward has a bevel-to-smaller diameter that sits inside the zinc's diameter. The flat bronze seat of the splines has no space between it and the inside wall of the hub and will not let water pass through the inside of the hub.
There is about a 1/4" difference in the clearance to the trim tab on the drive, the first run having greater clearance.
I'd like to get a solas dealer bought 23" to put next to these two and see if there's any difference. I'm also going to run the first run prop to see what it does vs. the other one I have been running. Maybe next week.:crossfing:

silverghost
05-07-2011, 05:47 PM
Madad:

This should be a great side-by-side test of Randy's "Special" props.
Now ~ If you could only find & borrow a new catalog production Solas 23" LH prop to also compare with both props you have now ?

What sort of horsepower are you running with that 23"LH Solas & what is your current maximum RPM ?
You stated earlier that you wanted a bit more pitch.
You must have a very healthy engine to run a Solas 23"P +

maddad
05-07-2011, 08:25 PM
Another slight difference is how the cast in hub supports are indexed to the blades. The first run has them biased about 1/3 the distance between the blades toward the aft most part of the blade, the second run has them biased 1/3 the distance between the blades towards the forward end of the blade.
Sg, I've had it a bit past 5500 and find myself holding even 5200 for long stretches. It seems there's a little more too, but my handling at the upper speeds is not all I'd like it to be yet.

Sweet little 16
05-08-2011, 08:01 AM
Randy was a salesman, he sold solas on making these props, before this we were stuck on 40 year old technology or going custom for big bucks for a SS prop.

Randy knew there was a market that loved their old classics, they needed a good performing stock SS prop. he proved this to solas and developed the props with them. The difference you see is normal in any product from R&D to field trial to production. As far back as I remember solas didn't have anything for the AQ drives until Randy started them on it , now they have several including an economical alum. prop. So Randy did open up this market for them .

HallJ
05-09-2011, 12:04 PM
No, not the same necessarily> Like Fix said they come out of the same mold . That is where the similarity may end. Props are precision machined on CNC's.so the casting maybe the same but the machining may not be. True, a part number, is a part number. The only way a part number can be the same for two different propellers would be with a revision level .
Like this
part #1234-14 3/4 21p REV A
Part #1234-14 3/4 21p REV B

From a quality stand point, there has to be away to identify one from the other. If the part #'s are Identical, Then it would most likely be that the props were labed after machining. If that where that case it may not have been done by Solas at all, but by a third party.
a pre tuned prop right out of the box, labed to a generic form

found this from Matty boy

If these are precision machined on a CNC, They have some explaining to do. The blade surface is no where near CNC quality. How about squeeze casted, deburred and polished.

Jeff

silverghost
05-09-2011, 01:25 PM
These props do not appear to be CNC machined.

Most props of this type are just cast and polished.
A CNC prop does not look like this and would cost much much more.

dsparis
05-09-2011, 03:41 PM
The props are the same

halvecta
06-09-2011, 06:40 PM
Another slight difference is how the cast in hub supports are indexed to the blades. The first run has them biased about 1/3 the distance between the blades toward the aft most part of the blade, the second run has them biased 1/3 the distance between the blades towards the forward end of the blade.
Sg, I've had it a bit past 5500 and find myself holding even 5200 for long stretches. It seems there's a little more too, but my handling at the upper speeds is not all I'd like it to be yet.

So maddad, did you get out and do any more testing? Is the 23 LH still available from Solas for the AQ drive. I was in the middle of communications with Randy trying to get a loaner, when his health really turned down and I am still interested to see if the Solas will work well with my set up. Do you know anyone who has Solas loaner props?

mrfixxall
06-09-2011, 06:46 PM
So maddad, did you get out and do any more testing? Is the 23 LH still available from Solas for the AQ drive. I was in the middle of communications with Randy trying to get a loaner, when his health really turned down and I am still interested to see if the Solas will work well with my set up. Do you know anyone who has Solas loaner props?


mark, look on ebay..their have been a few on their,you missed out on a 26'' ultra for 200 bucks a few weeks ago..

halvecta
06-09-2011, 07:53 PM
Hey Mike! You ready for Summer? When you coming out to CA?

I can't spin a 26! I want to try a Solas 23 before buying. I have a newly tuned 3 blade and my workhorse Hill 4-blade. I did some clean up work on the lower unit last summer (took nosecone off, cleaned up the skeg) and did some trim testing with my current props. Now that I have some solid numbers to work from, I want to see the comparison of the Solas on my hull. In fact I got an idea Mike, you buy one, let me borrow it and if it works I will buy it from you. What do you think? :shades:

I picked up an old Boston Whaler 13' Sport. That has been taking my time and $ recently. Messing around with it for the kids.

mattyboy
06-10-2011, 06:20 AM
I miss Randy :(

man I feel like mikey corleone they keep dragging me back in ;) where did you find that Joe???

I just looked at the last 23 I got from Randy it is different from the 21 on the cig and also different from the 21 I had on my 16. If I remember correctly there were 3 stocking periods.

the first was field trials. I recall a 23 solas showing up at lake george it was sent to a classic owner to try. the boat had a very healthy 6.2 and was turning a 26 pitch prop to around 4800 rpm. the solas couldn't spin past 4100 rpm.

the next was the first offering Randy sent me a prop to try then came to lake george with props and sold quite a few. a few months after I ordered another prop but he didn't have stock and he was waiting for new ones from solas. when the 23 arrived it was shapped different ( like what is offered now)

which brings us to now and the solas being sold by the factory as well.

the older 21 and the newer 23 perform within 50 rpm of each other on the cig. The older props were understated as far as pitch with more cupping and bite, the newer ones were closer to their stated pitch which makes sense in the mass production arena. If you sell someone who is turning a 26 pitch to 4800 rpm and is looking to pick up some rpm and they order a 23 pitch and loose 700 rpm they will not be happy.

In any case any of the solas props I tried always exhibited great handling and good performance. I am hoping the results I found with the solas on a 24 degree classic are the same on a 19 degree classic.

maddad
07-03-2011, 08:19 PM
It took a while, but I finally had a chance to use both props back to back. The GPS, tach and seat of my pants say they are the same.

joseph m. hahnl
07-04-2011, 08:20 AM
If these are precision machined on a CNC, They have some explaining to do. The blade surface is no where near CNC quality. How about squeeze casted, deburred and polished.

Jeff

The Solas SS props are investment castings.

Here's a video of the turbo's being made and they are not CNC machined . This maybe how Solas does it also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT0YrvJoCmc

Glad to here it worked out.

halvecta
08-10-2011, 01:06 AM
So does anyone know how I can get my hands on a 23 L and 21 L Solas Titan to test?

maddad
08-10-2011, 05:31 AM
So does anyone know how I can get my hands on a 23 L and 21 L Solas Titan to test?

Where are you, and where do you boat? Maybe someone nearby can meet up with you for some prop testing.

INNERRAGE70
08-10-2011, 07:12 PM
So does anyone know how I can get my hands on a 23 L and 21 L Solas Titan to test?
good luck i ben trying for 2months to buy one and called solas warehouse in cali and s carolina and they told me 6mt wait they are completly out:nilly:

f_inscreenname
08-21-2011, 11:40 PM
My Solas update.
1972 John Allmand SuperNova
19 feet
496ci / Volvo Penta 270/280

Made some major changes to the boat over the spring so some things are not going to be attributed to just the prop but here goes. Had a 24pitch Left Ultra before.
The Solas Titan 21P Left had better take off grip. Got the boat up and out of the water. To get the boat up on plane took 4 to 6 rpm’s less then before. Once the boat was on plane I could actually stay on plane 4 to 6 hundred rpm’s lower then I could with the ultra. I didn’t have GPS with me so I don’t know what the top end was but it felt faster.
One thing I did notice was that I would get the boat up to cruising speed (3 grand), set the trim on the outdrive and when I went up through the power ban to wot I found that the prop like the drive lowered some. That was very strange to me but it worked.
My top end is to much at 5500rpms so now I’m on the hunt for a 23P and if that don’t work over the winter I’ll have it bent to a 25P.

mattyboy
08-22-2011, 08:42 AM
My Solas update.
1972 John Allmand SuperNova
19 feet
496ci / Volvo Penta 270/280

.............
One thing I did notice was that I would get the boat up to cruising speed (3 grand), set the trim on the outdrive and when I went up through the power ban to wot I found that the prop like the drive lowered some. That was very strange to me but it worked.
My top end is to much at 5500rpms so now Iím on the hunt for a 23P and if that donít work over the winter Iíll have it bent to a 25P.

that statement I feel is why the solas works so well on a non trimable AQ volvo. I can't explain and probably would understand the physics or the hydrodynamical theory but use a solas on a 250 in the middle hole and you'll see the theory in action.

I am also glad to see the solas worked on a bigger hull, I had wondered if the benefits were more hull driven not drive driven. we'll see how it works on a wider flat bottomed boat shortly.

HallJ
08-22-2011, 05:55 PM
Matty,

I raised the Volvos on my Magnum 3" inches over the winter.
It still gets on plane in the middle position with no problem.
I still need to try the 3rd position.
I think they're great!

Jeff