Trailer modification

[Bobby D]

I decided to modify my trailer and my intent is to post this for information purposes only. My boat spends most of its life on the trailer in the old boat house during the summer months or in my 22 ‘garage during the winter months. Occasionally the boat will do a road trip to the Jersey shore, Philadelphia or Lake George but that’s it. After working through several ideas over the winter this is where I landed. My goal is to be able to store the boat in my existing garage and this is how I did it. I understand this not for everyone but it’s my trailer and it works for me. I started the project last weekend and should wrap it up tomorrow.

Regards,
Bob

[jstrahn]

Looks great and looks much more stout than most of the breakaway tongues I've seen on other trailers. Nice job!

[Masterkey83]

Nice work,I'm sure that was a lot cheaper than building a new garage:wink:

[Craig S]

Nice!!!

[Fishermanjm]

Bob,,, your garage is 22ft long or were u refering to the boat being 22ft?
i have the same predicament, i'm not storing my boat in the back yard any more after the winter we just went through, with the drive on the overall lenght is just over 30ft the garage is 25ft long somethin has to go to fit it in

[Bobby D]

The dimension of my existing (2) two car garage is a little over 22 feet deep with the door closed. My boat is a 1972 18 2+3 with a Volvo Penta SX drive hanging off the stern. With the boat backed into the garage as far as it can go (touching the drywall) the tip of bow clears the door by 6 inches. I have already moved the boat forward on the trailer one position because I needed a little more tong weight. If I measured correctly the boat will fit with the tong folded back however if I still need a little more I can take the hole thing off, slide it under the trailer and shut the door. Although my garage is not heated it’s attached to the house and insulated so even on the coldest days during the winter the temperature never gets below freezing.

[Carl C]

Good job. I'm sure your not the only one who has thought about this mod.

[DonziJon]

Looks like a nice piece of hardware. Is it a kit? If so, is it made for your specific trailer..or universal. :lookaroun: DJ

[Buddyc]

Great Job!

[MOP]

Are you sure you were not an aircraft engineer in a past life!!! Very nice!!!

[Rumblefish]

Wow! .. dual head on that tounge.....impressive job!

[Scott Pearson]

Nice

[Buddyc]

Got to be a pucker factor when taking a saw zall to that...:eek:

[silverghost]

Bob:

My Father made a similar mod on my Skiboat's 27 foot long galvanized trailer's tongue
But~~~
He chose to have the tongue slide & roll straight back on rollers & telescope under the middle of the trailer & boat itself .
Two big grade #8 bolts secure it in place while retracted in or out.

The hydraulic surge brakes needed a long SS braided high-pressure 3/16 " Aeroquip line so we would not have to disconnet the surge brake master cylider line when pulling-out , or retracting this trailer tongue.
The electrical wires for the trailer lighting also go through he center of the tongue.
It works very well.
He replaced the old tongue with a much longer galvanized unit so the big inboard was easier to launch on Ocean City's shallow sloped public launch ramps.
(I know you use this Ocean City NJ ramp on Arkansas Ave also !)
Now we don't have to dunk the pick-up's real wheels in salt water !

A very slick set-up you have there too !
Did you design this yourself ?~~~
Or is this a commercial kit you can buy to retrofit any trailer tongue ?

[68 Donzi]

Bobby D

Since this is such a common problem for owners of 'otherwise garage-able' boats like the 18' classic ... thanks for posting your install. Your post provides some great incite on completing such a project. When its completed, I sure would like to see some pictures of how it ended up fitting into your garage along with some details about the reduction in overall trailer length with this mod.

Anyone interested in accomplishing a similar modification can purchase the necessary hardware from a Fulton Performance distributor. To learn more about what's available, go here: http://www.fultonperformance.com/content/products.aspx?lvl=2&parentid=7000&catID=7060%20&part=0

I will look forward to seeing the finished project.

[Forrest]

Got to be a pucker factor when taking a saw zall to that...:eek:

. . . make that a double pucker factor seeing that it's a Rolls Trailer!!!

I would have a really tough time getting started on mine . . .

But it turned out great!

[Bobby D]

Yep measure and layout 10 times and cut once, hello Forrest I was wounding if you were going to comment. The trailer is a Rolls Axel trailer custom fitted (by Forrest) aluminum I-beam tandem-axle model 2160. Overall length of the trailer after my modifications is 21' 0" from the end of the hitch coupler to the end of the carpeted bunks. The dimension from the end of the carpeted bunk to the boss or split on the fold-away hinge is 16’-0”. I also turned the bunks around so that there is only about 6-inches of overhang and now I have the aluminum frame just about all the way to the transom. I indexed the aluminum spacers and rotated the bunks 180 degrees one at a time and bolted them through the same frame mounting holes insuring I maintained the correct position between the inner and outer lifting strakes. Once the breakaway is folded back the boat is now longer than the trailer. The boat and outdrive measure 21’ LOA and ready to go in the garage next winter with a foot to spare.

New setup puts the winch stand forward about a foot and a half from where Forrest had it set up for his X-18. I lined the winch stand up to a set of factory holes and did some adjustments, which included new 3/8" holes for the diagonal braces that support the winch stand. I wont know for sure until I load the boat however after setting the winch stand up so that the boat's transom is even with the rear of the bunks I should end up with about 400 lb. of tongue weight, which my truck should be able to handle. By the time I add boat weight (1970’s Donzi brochure states 2250 lbs dry), rigging, cooler, 40 gallons of fuel, 2 batteries, structural upgrades performed during the restoration and trailer weight my 18 was is over 3000lbs GVW. Another factor is that chunk of iron in the engine compartment and robust outdrive hanging of the stern.

Finally this is a well built trailer however the front spreader guide-on is a poor design so I added the keel roller up front. The front V guide does not work with a Classic but should work fine now that the bow roller is installed.

Bob

[Bobby D]

Trailer mods are now complete and ready for the 2011 season, installed new aluminum wheels and cleaned her up today. I used soft scrub on the trailer and mother’s aluminum polish on the fenders.

[Bobby D]

Lately we have gotten away from what this site is about so in the sprit of moving forward and talking about Donzi performance I would like some no s*** feedback on the final fit up and how my boat sits on the trailer. Today I finally loaded the 1972 18 2+3 onto the modified Rolls Axel and IMO it look’s like the trailer was made for the boat.

Regards,
Bobby D

[gcarter]

Bobby, that's a great looking combination!

[Buddyc]

Looks great Bobby . I'm sure she pulls like a dream. Best of luck and see you tomorrow.
Thank you for all your help

[Ghost]

Very impressive work, damn!

[Tidbart]

Curious, did you measure the tongue weight? This would be a great indicator as to whether or not it needs to move any.

B

[Kirbyvv]

Looks great and like it's ready to haul up to Lake George in June..............

[jstrahn]

Lately we have gotten away from what this site is about so in the sprit of moving forward and talking about Donzi performance I would like some no s*** feedback on the final fit up and how my boat sits on the trailer. Today I finally loaded the 1972 18 2+3 onto the modified Rolls Axel and IMO it look’s like the trailer was made for the boat.
Regards,
Bobby D

Beautiful trailer and beautiful boat. Wow!

[Bobby D]

Tidbart,
No not yet I plan on doing it next week. In picture 1 (before) the boat sat to far back. I found that when lowering the trailer there was no weight on the trailer jack about half way so last year I moved the boat forward to the next set of holes and it improved. When everything was going back together I decided to drill an extra set of holes if I need less tong weigh. Just have to remember how to do it with bathroom scale.


Kirby,
I plan on attending.

[jl1962]

Kirby,
I plan on attending.

:crossfing:
Bob -The first Algonquin Amber is on me!

Kirby - I was drinking these in Charleston, SC last weekend - maybe I'll try to haul some up in June!
http://www.duckrabbitbrewery.com/
:beer:

[Bobby D]

I measure the tongue weight today with a calibrated scale and it came in at 282 lbs.
Boat is not as heavy as I first thought; assuming the GVW is around the 2800 to 3000 lbs range the tongue weight should be OK

[Buddyc]

Hey Bobby, Just wanted to let you know the trailer I got from you was everything you said and more. Pulled like a dream and. tracked beautifully. Solid
Thanks again, your help made the trip to Michigan a little easier.

[Tidbart]

I measure the tongue weight today with a calibrated scale and it came in at 282 lbs.
Boat is not as heavy as I first thought; assuming the GVW is around the 2800 to 3000 lbs range the tongue weight should be OK

10%. Should be perfect.

[Bobby D]

Bob,
I appreciate your feedback and peer check on trailer setup and tong weight. As evidenced by reading may of your responses you clearly are one of the more knowledgeable member’s on this site.

Buddy,
Glad to hear you like the trailer, good luck with your project.

Finally, thanks to all for project feedback, recommendations, and advice. This was a good winter project and looking forward to the 2011 boating season.

[Forrest]

Bobby, it looks great! You even put a first-rate polish job on that Rolls as well.

[Bobby D]

Figured I would post this information to document the end result. My garage measures 21 feet long with the door closed and the rig fits in the garage with about a foot to spare and plenty of room for the car.

[MOP]

Turned out great your mod belongs in the tech section, curious where you got the knuckles.

[Buddyc]

Great looking rig Bobby!

[Greg Guimond]

I just stumbled across this thread. Very cool and super useful :yes:

TTT

[Bobby D]

Boat is high and dry in PA waiting on Sandy.

It’s been 2 years since I modified the trailer so after winterizing the boat on Saturday I did an inspection of the modified section and everything checked out OK. I also reworked the procedure for moving the boat into my side load garage and the third time was a charm. Instead of removing 2 wheels to allow the trailer to be pushed into the corner and against the wall I decided to try using these hydraulic wheel jacks. I lowered the front of the trailer as far a it would go so that the back wheels were almost off the ground and a few foot pumps on the jacks later both back wheels were off the pavement and the boat moved into position without a problem for the winter and just in time for the hurricane .

[TBroccoli]

Nice work on the trailer. What type of brakes does the trailer have? I do not see brake lines, only wires through the hinged part.

I have the same set up but cannot rotate the tongue as far due to the brake line restricting travel.

[Tidbart]

I see no brakes. Law may require it but, with an 18 you can get by with out them.

Bob

[Bobby D]

I don’t have breaks on my trailer, I live in Pa. and trailer inspection has been required since the early 1980's. Pa. also requires brakes on every axle on trailers over 3000#. I never looked that hard but I don’t remember seeing inspection stickers on boat trailers in my area but my guess would be when boat dealers sell boat trailers they inspect them but I don't know this either.

According to the 1970’s Donzi brochure both the 18 2+3 and the X-18 have an advertised GVW of 2250 lbs. I have not gone to a weigh station yet (on my list of things to do) but I’m sure that my rig is close to 3000 lbs. Not making excuses and I may add breaks however I don’t trailer the boat over long distances and my full size truck does not have a problem towing or stopping.

My boat has had two trailers since I owned it, first one cane with the boat and was a single axel and this one had an X-18 sitting on it at one time. Both trailers came from Florida and did not have breaks.

[Tidbart]

Just an FYI. It is not the weight of the boat and trailer that is looked at when determining whether it needs brakes, by law. It is the rating of the trailer when it is made. There should be label on the trailer somewhere with this info.

With tandem axles, I would guess the rating is closer to 4000#s.

B

[VetteLT193]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]Just an FYI. It is not the weight of the boat and trailer that is looked at when determining whether it needs brakes, by law. It is the rating of the trailer when it is made. There should be label on the trailer somewhere with this info.

With tandem axles, I would guess the rating is closer to 4000#s.

B[/QUOTE]

That depends on the State. In FL the statute talks about Gross Weight not the Gross Weight Rating. That's why trailer manufacturers have the loop-hole of not putting brakes on all wheels. When the trailer is sold it's sold empty. My triple axle for example weighs in at under 1,500 pounds with brakes on 4 of the 6 wheels.


Another sticky situation is I don't think surge brakes don't qualify as "brakes" under Federal DOT standards. :doh:

[Bobby D]

Just an FYI. It is not the weight of the boat and trailer that is looked at when determining whether it needs brakes, by law. It is the rating of the trailer when it is made. There should be label on the trailer somewhere with this info.

With tandem axles, I would guess the rating is closer to 4000#s.

B

That depends on the State. In FL the statute talks about Gross Weight not the Gross Weight Rating. That's why trailer manufacturers have the loop-hole of not putting brakes on all wheels. When the trailer is sold it's sold empty. My triple axle for example weighs in at under 1,500 pounds with brakes on 4 of the 6 wheels.


In Pa. its GVW as well and here is a photo of my label taken last night.

[silverghost]

Bob~~
I have never heard of any annual trailer inspecton here in PA and I have owned various boat & car trailers for decades.
In fact I have three boat trailers on my property here today. There is no PA safety state inspection sticker that I have ever seen on any boat trailer.
Trailers also do not need seperate insurance.

If you have a homebuilt, or custom fabricated trailer, here in PA you must first take it to the local state police to have them do a safety & construction inspection on it before PA will allow you to register, title, and license it .
They will then issue you a state weight capacity sticker.
I have been down this road before in PA.

[mattyboy]

[ QUOTE=silverghost]Bob~~
I have never heard of any annual trailer inspecton here in PA and I have owned various boat & car trailers for decades.
In fact I have three boat trailers on my property here today. There is no PA safety state inspection sticker that I have ever seen on any boat trailer.
Trailers also do not need seperate insurance.

If you have a homebuilt, or custom fabricated trailer, here in PA you must first take it to the local state police to have them do a safety & construction inspection on it before PA will allow you to register, title, and license it .
They will then issue you a state weight capacity sticker.
I have been down this road before in PA.{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]


Ignorance of the law is no defense everyone should know there local legal requirements effective in Pa since 1978




http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter175/s175.4.html



§ 175.4. Vehicles required to be inspected.

A registered vehicle moved upon a highway shall bear a valid certificate of inspection except for the following:
(1) Special mobile equipment.
(2) An implement of husbandry.
(3) A motor vehicle being towed.
(4) A motor vehicle being driven or a trailer being towed by an official inspection station owner or employee for the purpose of inspection.
(5) A trailer having a registered gross weight of 3,000 pounds or less.
(6) A motorized pedalcycle.
(7) A vehicle being repossessed by a financer or collector-repossessor through the use of miscellaneous motor vehicle business registration plates.
(8) A new vehicle while it is in the process of manufacture including testing, and not in transit from the manufacturer to a purchaser or dealer.
(9) A military vehicle used for training by a private, nonprofit, tax-exempt military educational institution when the vehicle does not travel on public roads in excess of 1 mile and when the property on both sides of the public road is owned by the institution.
(10) An antique vehicle.




Bob your sticker doesn't say a GVW does your registration?

[silverghost]

Again~

I have never seen ANY PA safety inspection sticker on ANY boat trailer here in PA.

I just called Jim C. my PA State Licensed Safety & emissions inpection station owner who inspects all my cars & truck.
Jim has been in business for years.
He also stated flatly that there is NO annual PA state safety inspection, or related sticker required on any boat, or utility, trailer required here in PA.

Your trailer must however have the builder's weight & safety sticker on it's tongue, or if homebuilt a PA state police issued safety & weight sticker which are both good for the entire life of the trailer.

[mattyboy]

pretty clear that's the code of the state of PA

ask Jim if he knows that section and what's his take on number 5 ?

[silverghost]

The builder's original sticker in Bob's post #43 above which contains the trailer's VIN number and weight ratings, or the state police supplied sticker if homebuilt meets the state of PA 's inspection requirement for the life of the trailer.
No need , or any requirement, for ANY annual PA trailer state safety inspections.
The original builder's sticker must be kept in good readable shape however to be still considered legal .
You also need a current annual license plate and registration sticker .

[John C in PA]

Matty, you beat me to the punch with the PA Code 175. This is why Al Gore invented the internet ;). SG, you may wish to read the code posted by Matty before continuing to post what neither you nor Jim C think to know. Can you post his location? My son in law is a Statie in Bucks County and perhaps I can have him pay Jim C a visit to confirm if he is giving out bad info :jester:.

John C in PENNSYLVANIA where my larger trailer has to be inspected yearly.

[mattyboy]

[ QUOTE=silverghost]The builder's original sticker in Bob's post #43 above which contains the trailer's VIN number and weight ratings, or the state police supplied sticker if homebuilt meets the state of PA 's inspection requirement for the life of the trailer.
No need , or any requirement, for ANY annual PA trailer state safety inspections.
The original builder's sticker must be kept in good readable shape however to be still considered legal .
You also need a current annual license plate and registration sticker .{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]


please point me to this in the PA code?

am I missing something? Bob mfgr's sticker doesn't have any info but the VIN the mfgr date tire psi specs GVW are all blank.

here's more on inspection of trailers

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pub_45/SubchapterG.pdf

[mattyboy]

John C

NY is similar , our trailer reg. only last one year and expire on Dec 31 . usually when you register the trailer they give you a 10 day inspection just enuff time to get it inspected I have seen the temp inspection which is paper I have never seen the actual inspection sticker or paper. They might just stamp the paper registration?

I usually don't register my trailers til I need to take them over the road the reg. fee is pro-rated so if you do it in june you only pay half the year.

[John C in PA]

Matty, 40 bucks a year to pull 1 wheel, and power up to check the lights is really BS. What does NYS get for inspection?

John C in PA

[mattyboy]

NY the land of taxes and fees


I live in Orange county which is in the MTA ( mass trans auth) NYC so they were granted a transportation tax on any registered trailers in their area to help keep the trains and buses running in NYC

so it use to be about 30 bucks to register and then another 20 or so to inspect. Been a year or so since I did it for my trailer while the boat was being worked on . when the DMV lady said that the MTA fee was like 30 bucks for my trailer I said are they sending a crew to help me launch and retrieve the boat ?? she didn't laugh she must get alot of grief about that fee.


now I think it runs about 70 bucks for the registration including the MTA fee and 30 for the inspection I will update that when i re-do the trailer next season

[Scott Pearson]

No trailer inspection here in NJ...thank God....cause all my S**T is wrong! lol. No inspection on my truck also....:D

[mattyboy]

Well Scott

it has been a while since you left a trail of parts on a major highway . LOL ;p

[Bobby D]

Matt,
Effective since 1978 man I’m living dog years I thought it was the 80’s. I fall under #(5) A trailer having a registered gross weight of 3,000 pounds or less. I do remember the Majic Tilt trailer having information on the sticker and the girl at my marina taking that information when I transferred the trailer from FL to Pa and applied for a new title. I also remember paying for the new tag, 5 year registration, and sticker. When I bought the rolls axel (not a homemade trailer) a few years later at my marina I applied for a new title and transferred the tag. Not sure if the girl went and looked at the sticker or figured it was a replacement in kind? I never looked at the sticker until last nigh and discover that there was not any information on it.
Bob

[mattyboy]

Is any of that info on your title or reg ?

[silverghost]

John & Bob ~

I have never had any boat trailer ever inspected here in PA.
My PA state inspection mechanic Jimmy C has in fact told me today that this inspection is not necessary.
Pehapps Jim is just plain Wrong ?

My Load Rite 25-T trailer has an 8500 lb gross weight capacity with dico surge drum brakes brakes on it's 5000 lb rated twin axels with 16.5 10 ply tires.
Heck the trailer alone empty weighs 1950 lbs.

Do I need some sort of PA state inspection sticker as proof of a safety inspection to be road legal?
I have owned , and used this trailer every season since it was bought new in 1988 and have never been stopped by the police for lack of any PA state safety inspection / sticker.
I have also not had any problem re-registering it with the state every year without any such safety inspections.

It's very possible that It has not been road legal since brand new because it has never had a PA safety inspection ?

What do I need here to be legal in PA on this over 3000lb gross weight trailer ?.
A safety inspection & related sticker ?
Do you have such a state safety inspection sticker on your trailers over 3000lb GVW ?
I have Never seen a PA state safety inspection stuck on the tongue or side rail member on Any boat trailer here in PA ???

[John C in PA]

SG: Oh, jesus christ. :hangum: Read the effin' PA regulations that Matty provided and lose the goddamn idiot at the inspection station. Then, if any or all of your traliers requires inspection bring it/them to a boat dealer for inspection. You've skated this far (maybe you dont take your trailers on the road too much) but if you get nabbed it'll cost ya!

If you wreck the rig and the insurance claim inspector finds no inspection sticker you may be denied full compensation.


John C in PA

[mattyboy]

~~SG~~

I have posted the law and the part of manual for the inspection procedure for trailers. I would say that if your inspection guy Jimmy is not familiar with both of these he is endangering the public safety. You have posted warnings to the forum members about people who are not on the up and up I would expect a man of his word such as yourself to also post up the full name and location of Jimmy's shop so that any forum member might be informed , that shop or mechanic really doesn't know his job or his requirement by LAW.

again if YOU have ever taken any of your trailers that are over 3000 lbs registered/labeled gvw over a public road in the state of Pa you have broken the law of the state of Pa.

[mattyboy]

BobbyD
I am wondering if the brake law has a grandfather clause I had a 98 custom made performance trailer which came with my 16. It was a tandem way over built for a 16 it would handle a 22 but it didn't have brakes either. I don't think they could build the same trailer with out brakes today. When I called them for a tandem trailer they asked what state it would be registered so they install the correct brake setup for that state

[Bobby D]

From my Post #28
I measured the tongue weight today with a calibrated scale and it came in at 282 lbs.
Boat is not as heavy as I first thought; assuming the GVW is around the 2800 to 3000 lbs range the tongue weight should be OK


Matt,
You may be on to something the trailer is an older build for an X-18 used in Florida and my 18 is definitely light compared to what the trailer is capable of handling. I looked up my trailer on the Rolls Axel trailer web site it’s an aluminum I-beam tandem-axle model 2160. The model number is stamped on the tong and rolls lists the net load is 5140. They also offer a single axel with a net load of 3070 and my boat would be OK but if you want a tandem the one I have is the next option. I don’t know what happened or why there is not any information stamped on the label and don’t care, moving forward I’ll make it rite. This spring I’ll weigh the rig and if’s over 3000 lbs I’ll put breaks on and if the title and registration need to be corrected I’ll do that as well. With all the options available for flexible hose and connections I can figure out how to make the fold away tong work.

[F430]

Bobby,
I have a 18C on an aluminum tandem trailer. When I bought it, it felt OK. But I felt it was pretty hard on my front brakes. I added one set of vented disks to the front axle, what a difference. Safety was my goal. Now the rig handles and stops like the boat isn't there.
The setup I installed had PLENTY of extra line to safely install on your very cool swing away, and the new couplers are excellent.
However, if my lake were only 10 miles away, I probably would have left it. But I want to visit some new places next year.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e116/F_430/DONZI/Discs.jpg