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300EVIL
03-25-2011, 02:23 AM
Hey Guys!
Well, I have the boat... whatever it is.... home now and have begun to do research on the engine. To make a long story short.... My uncle sold me the boat for $1 and it's been sitting for the last 3 years since it's been ran. My plan is to...

A. Get it started and running.

B. UPGRADE!!! :shades:

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0179.jpg

The engine is a Holman & Moody SBF 289. Engine number: B8HM-2119-1-RW I/O, CPM-200-2V-86HM-MB1 However, it's not the stock H&M 289. From my research, these are the upgrades I have found...

1. 715CFM Holley Carburetor.
S2MS-9510-A
LIST-3259-1
751
Manufactured: 1st Week, May 1967
(Supposedly from a GT350)

2. Edelbrock F4B (Cobra Manifold?)

3. Different Cam.... I have no clue what except that it's solid lifter.

4. Solid Lifters

5. Stiffer Valve Springs.... Again, no clue how stiff.

6. Upgraded spring retainers... Stronger?

So, my first plan is to get it running. The engine was winterized before it was put away and has fresh oil. It still has a 1/4 tank of gas which I'm gonna dump. My plan is to fog the cylinders with WD40 and crank it over a few times by hand, replace the plugs, get some water flow on the intake and attempt to start. Once it's running, It's getting a major degreaser bath.

From there I'm gonna replace all the ****ty old hoses and seals including manifold, and valve cover gaskets. Fuel filter, after I fix the leaky tank, and anything else I deem to be "BAD".

After that, I want to install an MSD 6A ignition I just bought. Distributor, coil, MSD box, the works... Sorry I don't like dealing points or vacuum tubes. :)

Next... I'm thinking of selling the 715CFM carb on eBay. Supposedly all the vintage rodders have a real hard on for this carb and I can get some major bucks for a new marine rated Holley carb. I wanted to rebuild it but it seems like I can get something better and newer...

Please check out my plan and see if what I'm thinking seems sane. :bonk:
Thanks!
Adam

silverghost
03-25-2011, 03:40 AM
Adam~~~
I am not a Holman~Moody expert by any means~~~

BUT~~~
I believe from your H/M Data tag shows that your boat's original engine~~~
CPM-200-2V was only a 200 horsepower 2 barrel carburetor low compression base model unit !
It was not uncommon for any of these H/M engines to have solid lifters & and a special grind marine cam.
That's the way Ford supplied them to Hollman~Moody for their marine use.
Not ALL H/M engines were high performance units~~~
Most in fact were just basic low-end engines !

According to the H/M data tag this was the lowest base horsepower 289 engine ever supplied by H/M !
Th 200-2V carb stamped on the H/M data plate is a big tip-off of this fact.

With that said~~~
Was the boat's original engine later swapped for another junkyard engine unit out of another Ford auto ?
OR~~~~
Was just the intake manifold & carb only swapped at some later date in an ill-fated attempt to get more speed & power out of the original base low-end 200 horsepower /2 barrel carb low compression H/M 289 ?
This engine would only be one step-up from the base 6 cylinder 200 Cu.In. Ford engine used in your grandmother's mustang as an example !
It is NOT and never was a high-performance engine !

Does your Uncle have any answers to these questions ?
Did HE ever swap the complete original engine ?
OR~~~
Did he later slap that 4 barrel 715 CFM carb and intake manifold on the original low power base model engine from an unrelated junkyard auto ?

Might I suggest that you First get it up & running and take the boat out for a ride before you start pulling carbs + intakes & the old ignition distributor .
I would also delay installing that new MSD ignition system until after this first test ride !

If it is still that low original 200 horsepower base H/M 289 engine & cylinder heads It will take much more than a new electronic Ignition system & a new marine carb to get much more power out of this basic base model low performance/low compression Hollman~Moody 200 horsepower 289 !

That 715 CFM carb also sounds very big for a low horsepower, low compression basic 289 CuI.In. engine installation !

I have seen people with very low horsepower car & boat engines go to the junkyard and buy an auto intake manifold and big 4 barrel carb and later slap it on a low power boat enigne expecting it to come alive with a great hosepower increase~~~

Sadly it just doesn't work that way !
It's not THAT easy !

The horsepower increase by doing this carb & manifold swap would be very small ~~~If any increase at all !

Points are OK~~~
There are & were NO Vacuum Tubes ever installed on any engines !

300EVIL
03-25-2011, 04:17 AM
Hi SilverGhost,
Thanks for your post. According to my uncle, the engine is the original block. He bought the boat in 79 from someone who said he upgraded the above mentioned parts. Some of the parts he may have installed by my uncle like the cam, springs and retainers.

I wouldn't exactly call a move from a 2bl to a 4bl an "ill fated" attempt... More air + more fuel = Power unless I'm missing something in a watercraft... :confused: Just look at a 500ci pro-stock engine versus a 500ci street engine. Same displacement but it breathes like a SOB due to carbs, intake, heads, and headers.

Either way... I'm not looking for MASSIVE power out of this engine but I want it running like a Swiss watch while I have it in there. I see a 351 in it's future... :shades:

I fully plan on getting it running as it sits first but I don't think there is any big deal with replacing gaskets and changing the ignition if the timing is staying the same.

You seem to keep mentioning "Low HP" like the SBF is some plague. Yeah, I've had cars with 600, 800, 1200HP but don't knock the 289. It's not that bad. :shades: Shelby used the 715CFM carb on 289's and I'd imagine he would know what the hell he was doing. Now, this doesn't mean it's correct for marine applications but I'm just going by street **** because that's what I know.



There are & were NO Vacuum Tubes ever installed on any engines !

WOW! Remind me to never make analogies or jokes! :shocking:Chill dude...


BTW, also preforming compression and leak down tests on the cylinders as well.

silverghost
03-25-2011, 04:32 AM
You are correct~~~
A 289 CAN be a high horsepower engine~~~

BUT~~~
You would need better flowing heads~~~
Bigger Intake & exhaust valves ~~~
Better valve springs
Higher Compression pistons~~~
Better Heavy duty Rods, and bolts & crankshaft~~~
Better bearings & caps
More agressive camshaft.

Just adding another 4 barrel manifold & carb, and little else, will NOT get you there !

You canot put a new 4 barrel carb & intake manifold and take grandma's old base model 2 barrel low compression 289 mustang and go hunting down one of Carroll Shelby's Cobras or GT-350s !

As I said~~~
It is just NOT that simple !

Not ALL Hollman~Moody marine engines were high-performance engines.
Your boat's original engine based on you data plate was a low-power base engine.

That 715 CFM carb you have there is way too big for that engine.

300EVIL
03-25-2011, 04:43 AM
Dude.... Wow... Can you relax a little... It's like 3:30AM...

I doubt I'm going to snap a rod anytime soon. The boat has been running this way since at least 79. I was personally thinking of dropping the carb to something more reasonable like 500 or 600CFM. All you seem to want to do is argue. CHILL THE HELL OUT!

silverghost
03-25-2011, 04:48 AM
Not trying to argue~~~
Just telling you what you MAY have based on your H/M data tag !
And trying to explain it to you !

It would appear from YOUR reaction that ~~~
It may be hard for you to accept the real true facts ?

Just the same as your boat having Donzi Decals did not make it a Real Donzi !
Someone put those decals on this boat.
You had a hard time accepting the fact that it was a Splash clone; and not a real Donzi.
No true Donzi 16 or 18 ever had such a large hatch opening !

Don't kill me~~~
I'm only the messanger !:cool:

It's still a neat boat, & gift, from your Uncle & Aunt .

Enjoy your new boat !

300EVIL
03-25-2011, 05:05 AM
Adam~~~
I am not a Holman~Moody expert by any means~~~



Not trying to argue~~~
Just telling you what you MAY have based on your H/M data tag !


Hmmmm.... :confused:




It may be hard for you to accept the facts ?


No, but I do find it hard to decipher belligerence from the logic in your posts.

Just Say N20
03-25-2011, 07:55 AM
300, I think you are on the right track. The 289 Ford and 283 Chevy are great engines.

The big difference between car and boat engines (besides the "anti-boom" parts, like spark arresting alt, carbs with J-tubes, anti-spark dist, marine fuel pump, etc), is that in inboard/outboard applications (in non-mega buck, non-racing applications), usually people try to limit rpms to around 5,500 because of the drive limitations.

Strong car engines can be built to rev to whatever. Good boat engines need a cam that produces a lot of low end torque, and produce a torque curve that is relatively flat. I know of quite a few people from back in the day, that went to reputable high performance car engine builders to have boat engines made, much to their disappointment. An engine that develops most of its torque above 5,000, and peak hp over 6,500 might be great for a car, but not so much for a boat.

One of the mistakes folks make is putting on too much carb. A small block engine running 5,200 rpms simply isn't that big of an air pump to need much of a carb. Most SBC/SBF I know that are running well have carbs in the 650 - 750 cfm range.

A dual plane intake manifold can be helpful in getting more low end torque.

I thought your comment about points and tubes was funny. :)

Sweet little 16
03-25-2011, 08:37 AM
the tag being referenced is on the bell housing, it really doesn't mean much if the motor was touched. check by the starter for a block casting that will give you some idea.



Some things to keep in mind.




exhaust are a problem with a ford, well not really a problem just expensive for a hi-po set either hiteks or CMI. either way the logs can have some issues once you leave the stock arena, center riser alum. manifolds are available better than logs but still not hi-po.



the 351 is going to make you address/ creative plumb the exhaust exits on the boat the 351 is taller and the end of the riser dumps are going to be in a different place. It might even have some hatch clearance issues.



before you turn the motor either remove the hm water pump or squirt some dish soap in the to lube it. If the impellor is dried out and it breaks up it will cause problems downstream.



when you run it on the hose watch the pressure , you can damage the head gaskets.


dump and inspect the oil before you run it and again once you run it repeat this.


If you are really a tinkerer you're gonna get tired of the ford and want to move onto a chevy more goodies and parts around at better prices.

mphatc
03-25-2011, 11:00 AM
300,

I have a 400HP SBF in my Corsican . . . it screams . .but a Ford build is expensive . .

If you limit yourself to 4800-5000 RPM and the lower end on the engine you have is strong, The crankshaft in your engine is better than the newer 5.0 SBF . . updates like GT40P heads and intake and exhaust will get some gains . . just focus on torque as has been written here.

My engine runs the Holley 650 marine, and a Mallory electronic ignition.

The last 302 ran GT40P heads , Edelbrock Air gap, and H&M logs, this was a strong 335 HP engine 333 FT LBS torque with a Bullet custom grind cam.

if you're interested I'll share the details of my builds, and the struggles of working with Ford SB in boats . . I'm now building 2 383s for a Magnum 27, much easier . . .

You might also consider that if the engine you have is exactly as you describe it . . and is really from a:
Manufactured: 1st Week, May 1967
(Supposedly from a GT350)

That somewhere in the GT350 restoration market there is someone willing to pay huge dollars for an original H&M engine . . I'd investigate that path as well, and then consider switching to Chevy marine power . .

I didn't see it written, what's the hull that this is all installed into?

Mario L.

MOP
03-25-2011, 05:59 PM
Did not read all the posts!!! But from past experience a 289 runs very nice with 550 to 600 cfm 715 it will be boggy on the bottom. The stock heads just can't flow enough for a big carb, I ran a fairly hot Esky cam with a 600 in a coupe years back and surprise quite a few.

68 Donzi
03-25-2011, 06:57 PM
300EVIL

Make no mistake about it, that's one rare Donzi you have there! And I'll bet you're going to enjoy it.

Now on to your engine ...

Donzi was just starting out in the mid 60's and Holman Moody was a good source for specialized application engines including marine. The 289 that Holman Moody produced for your Donzi is actually a good little engine. Holman Moody was one of the better 'tuners' back in the 60's and into the early 70's and made a number of configurations for this engine. In the 2v configuration it's output was rated at (just above) 200BHP@4,400RPM. (BTW: this configuration had a cast iron 2v manifold, mild camshaft, hydraulic lifters and a single point distributor).

Any one wishing to find out more about how to decipher the serial number for the Holman Moody engines made for marine applications can refer to a post I made here: http://forums.aaca.org/f120/holman-moody-ford-289-302-race-298367.html#post866390

Your plan (which you made quite clear) is a good one and I like your idea of replacing the carburetor as it is a logical move. You are right about the Holley on your Donzi ... it too is rare. This particular carb was used by Carrol Shelby on his 289ci Cobra's and GT350 Mustangs. It was chosen by Carroll because of the pivot system in the bowls ... it was superb for the tight turns so often encountered in road racing.

Anyway ... as you said, your current 715cfm Holley is rare. I suspect that you can sell this carb for somewhere between $600 and $1,000 on eBay to one of the many collectors wishing to complete their project to original specifications.

For your Donzi, the best replacement would be a Holley 450cfm 4v (part# 0-80364) as this model would work well with the remaining engine combination.

In the combination you have indicated you are looking for ... you will end up with a more reliable, better starting, better running and more economical engine combination. Good Job!

To this day, I still remember my first 289 ...

I had a 65 Ford Fairlane (in the late 60's) with a 'K' 289 (aka: HiPo) which stock was rated 271BHP@6,000 rpm. My combination was modified to run in either Little Stock (500cfm Holley 2v) or Junior Stock (780cfm Holley 4v). The engine I built back then had 13.5:1 compression, solid cam (510 lift, 320 duration), but with stock (HiPo) steel heads. Backed by a Borg-Warner T10 (crash-boxed 4 speed) and a truck rear end with 31 spine axles and 567:1 rear end gears, the Fairlane turned 12.50's with the 4v and 13.90's with the 2v. In case you are wondering, I won a lot more races in Little Stock. Those were great times (and good time slips) for 40+ years ago.

Oh well ... back to today. I hope I helped... enjoy your Donzi!!!

Tony
03-25-2011, 09:53 PM
Great first post...and welcome to the board!


:beer:

68 Donzi
03-25-2011, 10:01 PM
I am not a Holman~Moody expert by any means~~~


No need to explain ... in fact few people today are. It's been about 40 years since the HM heydays and although they (Holman Moody) are still operating a website today, most of the 'experts' that developed the original product line and created the reputation behind HM, are either gone ... or not interested anymore (aka: retired).



It was not uncommon for any of these H/M engines to have solid lifters & and a special grind marine cam.


Actually, this particular engine was equipped with a somewhat mild hydraulic cam. Regardless however, it was still a great engine for Donzi during the roll-out of their 16' and 18' boats.



Did he later slap that 4 barrel 715 CFM carb and intake manifold on the original low power base model engine from an unrelated junkyard auto ?


The Holley 715cfm carb on this Donzi did not come from the junkyard. Regardless of how long ago it was installed (my guess is that was many moons ago) it is too specialized and too rare to have been 'slapped on'. In fact ... I would guess that it was not slapped on at all. This was not a novices normal carb choice and although I agree that it is not the right choice, my guess is that the installation was done at the same time as the cam, solid lifters and the high-rise dual plane aluminum intake were added.

Maybe some other modifications were done at that time. Who knows. But I assure you, this carb didn't come from a junkyard.



There are & were NO Vacuum Tubes ever installed on any engines !


On this point ... I agree and actually I found the comment to be quite hilarious.

zelatore
03-26-2011, 02:38 AM
300, looks like you've got a solid plan. Basically, get it running in it's current state, the figure out where you want to go.

Like everybody else, I'd agree that's probably too much carb for that motor unless there's a lot more going on inside that you don't know about. Major head work for example. Stock Ford heads just never flowed much. (yeah, I too used to drag race a 302 and cry over how 'easy' the Chevy guys had it!)

BTW, I liked the tube comment. I took a look at some of your other projects and I kinda figure you know enough about electronics to make a joke on the subject.

But just for the record, I still like tubes! (in my audio equipment, anyway)

Sorry, I know I'm not really adding anything useful to the conversation, but I need to kill some time while the DVR buffers F1 qualifying so I can skip the commercials. Only 38 minutes recorded so far....

300EVIL
03-26-2011, 03:10 AM
300, I think you are on the right track. The 289 Ford and 283 Chevy are great engines.

The big difference between car and boat engines (besides the "anti-boom" parts, like spark arresting alt, carbs with J-tubes, anti-spark dist, marine fuel pump, etc), is that in inboard/outboard applications (in non-mega buck, non-racing applications), usually people try to limit rpms to around 5,500 because of the drive limitations.

Strong car engines can be built to rev to whatever. Good boat engines need a cam that produces a lot of low end torque, and produce a torque curve that is relatively flat. I know of quite a few people from back in the day, that went to reputable high performance car engine builders to have boat engines made, much to their disappointment. An engine that develops most of its torque above 5,000, and peak hp over 6,500 might be great for a car, but not so much for a boat.

One of the mistakes folks make is putting on too much carb. A small block engine running 5,200 rpms simply isn't that big of an air pump to need much of a carb. Most SBC/SBF I know that are running well have carbs in the 650 - 750 cfm range.

A dual plane intake manifold can be helpful in getting more low end torque.

I thought your comment about points and tubes was funny. :)

Thanks for your educating response. Very good info, I had no clue there were marine grade distributors, do you happen to know what the differences are? Ah yes, long steady torque over peak high RPM HP. Seems to make perfect sense to me. I really think 715CFM is way too much carb for this motor and do plan on changing to a marine grade carb better suited for the application.
Thanks Again!



the tag being referenced is on the bell housing, it really doesn't mean much if the motor was touched. check by the starter for a block casting that will give you some idea.

Some things to keep in mind.

exhaust are a problem with a ford, well not really a problem just expensive for a hi-po set either hiteks or CMI. either way the logs can have some issues once you leave the stock arena, center riser alum. manifolds are available better than logs but still not hi-po.

the 351 is going to make you address/ creative plumb the exhaust exits on the boat the 351 is taller and the end of the riser dumps are going to be in a different place. It might even have some hatch clearance issues.

before you turn the motor either remove the hm water pump or squirt some dish soap in the to lube it. If the impellor is dried out and it breaks up it will cause problems downstream.

when you run it on the hose watch the pressure , you can damage the head gaskets.

dump and inspect the oil before you run it and again once you run it repeat this.

If you are really a tinkerer you're gonna get tired of the ford and want to move onto a chevy more goodies and parts around at better prices.


Good idea!! I'll get the "real" engine number and we'll see what it has to say. Maybe there is something extra I'm missing. Though, I do think it is the original block in this boat, but we'll see.

I heard that the 351 will bolt directly to the current aluminum water cooled exhaust logs but you bring up a good point on the physical dimensions of the short block.

Yes, I do plan on removing and servicing the pump before I turn it over. I think the impeller was replaced about 5 years ago but it's been sitting for a while and probably could use a good lube, besides, it needs to come off anyway for me to hand crank the block.

Oh yes, I am aware you shouldn't run the water at full pressure into the intake. I agree on the oil too. It's Mobil 1 20W-50 and has been sitting there for 3 years. I'll get the engine to operating temp, dump and replace. Hey! that's what bilge pumps are for! :kingme: (Just a joke for people that take comments too seriously.)

I would LOVE to swap up to a SBC as I'm a Chevy guy. The cost of that right now is not in the cards plus I have the problem of bell housings and headers. Though, this would be a great move for the future. I just want to get it running,,, CORRECTLY,,, for now.



300,

I have a 400HP SBF in my Corsican . . . it screams . .but a Ford build is expensive . .

If you limit yourself to 4800-5000 RPM and the lower end on the engine you have is strong, The crankshaft in your engine is better than the newer 5.0 SBF . . updates like GT40P heads and intake and exhaust will get some gains . . just focus on torque as has been written here.

My engine runs the Holley 650 marine, and a Mallory electronic ignition.

The last 302 ran GT40P heads , Edelbrock Air gap, and H&M logs, this was a strong 335 HP engine 333 FT LBS torque with a Bullet custom grind cam.

if you're interested I'll share the details of my builds, and the struggles of working with Ford SB in boats . . I'm now building 2 383s for a Magnum 27, much easier . . .

You might also consider that if the engine you have is exactly as you describe it . . and is really from a:
Manufactured: 1st Week, May 1967
(Supposedly from a GT350)

That somewhere in the GT350 restoration market there is someone willing to pay huge dollars for an original H&M engine . . I'd investigate that path as well, and then consider switching to Chevy marine power . .

I didn't see it written, what's the hull that this is all installed into?

Mario L.

Hey Mario!
Thanks for the info! Yes I would be interested in any data you care to share on the SBF's. Again, my goal here with this 289 is just to get it running correctly. If I gain, or loose, some power in the process, so be it. I just want it to run as correct and flawless as I can for a season or two.

According to the date code on the carb is where I got that date. I doubt it is the manufacture date of the whole engine as I was told the carb was changed before my uncle got it, but, who knows!




Did not read all the posts!!! But from past experience a 289 runs very nice with 550 to 600 cfm 715 it will be boggy on the bottom. The stock heads just can't flow enough for a big carb, I ran a fairly hot Esky cam with a 600 in a coupe years back and surprise quite a few.

Yeah, I do remember my uncle saying that the engine struggles up to 3K RPM. this could be an issue with the carb, cam or both! Definitely an issue I'd rather eliminate. Thus It looks like I'm heading for a 600CFM carb or less. Marine grade ofcourse.



300EVIL

Make no mistake about it, that's one rare Donzi you have there! And I'll bet you're going to enjoy it.

Now on to your engine ...

Donzi was just starting out in the mid 60's and Holman Moody was a good source for specialized application engines including marine. The 289 that Holman Moody produced for your Donzi is actually a good little engine. Holman Moody was one of the better 'tuners' back in the 60's and into the early 70's and made a number of configurations for this engine. In the 2v configuration it's output was rated at (just above) 200BHP@4,400RPM. (BTW: this configuration had a cast iron 2v manifold, mild camshaft, hydraulic lifters and a single point distributor).

Any one wishing to find out more about how to decipher the serial number for the Holman Moody engines made for marine applications can refer to a post I made here: http://forums.aaca.org/f120/holman-moody-ford-289-302-race-298367.html#post866390

Your plan (which you made quite clear) is a good one and I like your idea of replacing the carburetor as it is a logical move. You are right about the Holley on your Donzi ... it too is rare. This particular carb was used by Carrol Shelby on his 289ci Cobra's and GT350 Mustangs. It was chosen by Carroll because of the pivot system in the bowls ... it was superb for the tight turns so often encountered in road racing.

Anyway ... as you said, your current 715cfm Holley is rare. I suspect that you can sell this carb for somewhere between $600 and $1,000 on eBay to one of the many collectors wishing to complete their project to original specifications.

For your Donzi, the best replacement would be a Holley 450cfm 4v (part# 0-80364) as this model would work well with the remaining engine combination.

In the combination you have indicated you are looking for ... you will end up with a more reliable, better starting, better running and more economical engine combination. Good Job!

To this day, I still remember my first 289 ...

I had a 65 Ford Fairlane (in the late 60's) with a 'K' 289 (aka: HiPo) which stock was rated 271BHP@6,000 rpm. My combination was modified to run in either Little Stock (500cfm Holley 2v) or Junior Stock (780cfm Holley 4v). The engine I built back then had 13.5:1 compression, solid cam (510 lift, 320 duration), but with stock (HiPo) steel heads. Backed by a Borg-Warner T10 (crash-boxed 4 speed) and a truck rear end with 31 spine axles and 567:1 rear end gears, the Fairlane turned 12.50's with the 4v and 13.90's with the 2v. In case you are wondering, I won a lot more races in Little Stock. Those were great times (and good time slips) for 40+ years ago.

Oh well ... back to today. I hope I helped... enjoy your Donzi!!!

Excellent info!! Thanks a lot for the detailed post. This engine is 9.3:1CR so the compression isn't quite as wild as 13.5 LOL!!! Mad props on getting that beast running without detonation.


Great first post...and welcome to the board!


:beer:

Yeah, great info!!! :cool: That guy rocks! :wink:

Again,,,, thank you all for the great info. I'm getting a crash course on marine engine performance. I'm gonna dump this museum piece of a carb on ebay and see what I can get for a decent and newer marine replacement with a more conservative CFM. I will get it running with all the current stuff as it sits but it will be nice to see this engine cleaned up and running correctly.

Adam

300EVIL
03-26-2011, 03:29 AM
300, looks like you've got a solid plan. Basically, get it running in it's current state, the figure out where you want to go.

Like everybody else, I'd agree that's probably too much carb for that motor unless there's a lot more going on inside that you don't know about. Major head work for example. Stock Ford heads just never flowed much. (yeah, I too used to drag race a 302 and cry over how 'easy' the Chevy guys had it!)

BTW, I liked the tube comment. I took a look at some of your other projects and I kinda figure you know enough about electronics to make a joke on the subject.

But just for the record, I still like tubes! (in my audio equipment, anyway)

Sorry, I know I'm not really adding anything useful to the conversation, but I need to kill some time while the DVR buffers F1 qualifying so I can skip the commercials. Only 38 minutes recorded so far....


Thanks man! I'm glad you all think the same. That big ass carb has to go... According to everyone's info and my prognosis, It's just too damn big for anything but peak HP.

I have no clue if the head was worked on but that's one of the reasons I want to pull the intake manifold and replace the gaskets is to see if there was any grinding done. Plus new gasket seals never hurt....

LOL! You got me, I really do love tubes... They are an art to me... I must admit. The warm sound you get from a good phonograph and a tube amp is unreal. If you like tubes,,, check out this video...

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl-QMuUQhVM

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S5OwqOXen8&feature=related

Thanks!
Adam

Sweet little 16
03-26-2011, 10:08 AM
[QUOTE=68 Donzi;595299]

Any one wishing to find out more about how to decipher the serial number for the Holman Moody engines made for marine applications can refer to a post I made here: http://forums.aaca.org/f120/holman-moody-ford-289-302-race-298367.html#post866390


from that post


Holman Moody - Engine Serial Number - KEY LEGEND
First descriptor is a letter identifying the - BLOCK ID (cubic displacement and type)
A= 427 & 427 SOHC
B=289
C=460
D=302
E=351W
G=494
H=429 HEMI
K=429
M=428

Second descriptor is a number identifying the - YEAR (of production)
7=67
8=68
9=69
0=70
1=71
2=72
3=73
4=74
5=75

Third & fourth descriptors are letters identifying the - BUILDER (marine grade assembler/tuner)
HM= HOLMAN MOODY

Fifth through Eighth descriptors are numbers identifying the - SERIAL NUMBER (production number in that block size)
XXXX -PRODUCTION NUMBER

Ninth descriptor is a number identifying the - ROTATION (crank rotation)
1= LEFT HAND
2= RIGHT HAND

Tenth & eleventh descriptors are letters identifying the - COOLING (the cooling fluid set-up)
RW=RAW WATER
FW=FRESH WATER

The last descriptor(s) are letter(s) identifying the - DRIVE (system the engine is connected to)
I/O= INBOARD OUTBOARD
T= 12 DEGREE V-DRIVE
Z= 0 DEGREE V-DRIVE

E9 HM 4127-1- R/W I/O

E= 351 block
9 = 1969
HM= HOLMAN MOODY
4127= block production number
1= LEFT HAND ROTATION
R/W= RAW WATER COOLED
I/O = OUTDRIVE


Please post some pictures of your Donzi.


Regards,


Donzi 68 "



that info seems very familiar , have we seen it some where before???

68 Donzi
03-26-2011, 02:29 PM
Sweet Little Sixteen



that info seems very familiar , have we seen it some where before???


You may have. The H-M serial number marine engine coding structure has been around since Holman Moody began building marine engines in the mid 60s. I was given this code decipher routine some time ago, and like so many other good Samaritans, share it freely with others when the need arises.

Before doing so however, I did check in with Lee Holman to verify the validity and accuracy of the code system and it is accurate.

For those who need it, here is the contact info for Holman Moody:

Holman Moody and Holman Automotive
Shop Address: Holman Automotive Inc.,
9119 Forsyth Park Drive, Charlotte, NC 28273

Mailing Address: Holman Automotive Inc.,
PO Box 669351, Charlotte, NC 28266

Questions or Orders, call (704)583-2888

Ask for Lee Holman as he handled the marine engines back then.

Unfortunately for the marine industry, eventually Holman Moody quit building marine engines. John Holman passed away in 1975 and Ralph Moody in 2004. These guys were giants in the NASCAR circuit and their marine endeavor was an offshoot of their involvement in racing. Incidentally, on April 17th, John will be inducted into the Motorsports Hall of Fame.

Speaking of build data ...

What I would like to find is the code used by Donzi to identify the build data of the classics built in the mid 60s. Since the torch at Donzi has been passed here several times, my guess is that this will be a far more difficult challenge. If some here has a deciphering code, that would be interesting!

boatnut
03-26-2011, 03:37 PM
300,
if you're interested I'll share the details of my builds, and the struggles of working with Ford SB in boats . . I'm now building 2 383s for a Magnum 27, much easier . . .
That somewhere in the GT350 restoration market there is someone willing to pay huge dollars for an original H&M engine . . I'd investigate that path as well, and then consider switching to Chevy marine power . .
I didn't see it written, what's the hull that this is all installed into?
Mario L.
Interesting thread -- a lot of the questions we still have are likely similar to 300EVIL's as we are still trying to decide on an engine plan for our planned upgrade (deck off, tank replace, etc.) to our 1969 18 2+3. I have owned the boat since 1971 and the original 302 H&M and 250 Volvo are still in use. Mario, I am interested in your SB Ford details but I don't want to steal this thread so I can email you or go whatever path you suggest. I am also interested in the original H&M engine market you mention. Our engine (D9HM-311-1 R/W) is basically a 302 truck block that H&M marined -- it came with a 4 bbl Holley and sounds like it has a mild cam (nice idle noise) but I am not sure of that--it was spec'd at 235 HP. Our first choice is to keep the boat as original and keep the H&M image (it even came new with an H&M decal on the deck). But the Ford small block challenges are great including the manifold issue -- the H&M logs are the most significant identifier of the H&M engine and I hear of all kinds of issues with those log manifolds. We would rather buy a new engine than rebuild but all options are open. Any way the posts in this thread are very interesting and appropriate. thks, Ed

Scott Pearson
03-26-2011, 04:44 PM
I think you missed sweet little 16's point. That info you put up was already posted by Matty Boy awhile back. Its the exact same information...in fact...the number that you made an example out of is Mattys old 16!!!!! This was posted on Donzi.Org!!!! Same information!

As far as a deciphering code that Donzi used...there is no such thing.

Really dont know what you are up to Donzi 68....:boggled:

68 Donzi
03-26-2011, 05:12 PM
Hey Scott,

Interesting. If the H-M data I posted came from a post made by Matty Boy, please send on my thanks to him. I had it sent to me some time back (several years ago I think) and refer to it when it makes sense to do so.

As an old Holman Moody, Carroll Shelby, Jack Roush buff, I find collecting and sharing good information is an important part of any hobby or interest.

If Matty Boy was the originator of this data string, please pass my thanks on to him. :wink:

I am however sorry to hear that Donzi did not have or use a serial number system that allowed the various hull combination's to be deciphered. From Donzi itself, it seems that the resident expert on the older Classic models is Josh Stickles, when he has time.

Sweet little 16
03-28-2011, 10:12 AM
Hey Scott,



I am however sorry to hear that Donzi did not have or use a serial number system that allowed the various hull combination's to be deciphered. From Donzi itself, it seems that the resident expert on the older Classic models is Josh Stickles, when he has time.


Search this site for Hull Number, HIN ( HULL IDENTIFICATION NUMBER), MIC(MFG'R IDENTIFICATION CODE), and hand written in black marker.

Also search the USCG mandate for hulls built after nov 1 1972

That should give you a firm foundation in the dechipering of the hull identification methods used by Donzi past and present.

300EVIL
04-02-2011, 09:26 PM
Okay, the sun decided to come out today so I did a little work on my FAKE Donzi. :shades:

I removed, checked, cleaned and gapped the plugs. Removed the water pump and gave it a good cleaning and lube. Cranked over the engine a couple of times and fogged the cylinders. From there, I cleaned and set the points and found out I was not getting spark. Turns out the ballast resistor was trashed, read 1.4M ohms! :boggled:

I dumped the old resistor, bridged the connections and replaced the old coil for a new one that I had laying around that does not require a resistor.

Re-installed water pump and connected water supply. I pulled the gas tank as well. Looks fine on the bottom so I think the leak is at the top somewhere. I connected a small gas tank up to the fuel line with some fresh gas. I primed the carb until fuel was coming out of the accelerator pump.

When I try to start,,, :confused: It will rumble for a few seconds off of a cap of gas down it's throat or a few squirts from the accelerator pump but won't stay running. I screwed with it for a while until my battery started to go dead. Cleaned the breathers on the carb, they were gummed but still no go. My guess is that the carb is just too gummed up.

I'm gonna give it another shot tomorrow if the weather behaves. Think the pump can handle 10 or 20 seconds of running with no water?

Thanks!
Adam

MOP
04-03-2011, 07:55 AM
Okay, the sun decided to come out today so I did a little work on my FAKE Donzi. :shades:

I'm gonna give it another shot tomorrow if the weather behaves. Think the pump can handle 10 or 20 seconds of running with no water?

Thanks!
Adam

NO! Always have water flow, impellers die quick when run dry.

Rumblefish
04-03-2011, 11:52 AM
Fun Thread to read.. and welcome...

Sounds like your on track to fire it up and see what you got..It does make restoring or fixing up projects more fun if you can hear them run or better yet.. take it out for cruise .

But really.. Pull the carb. its seems you have the know how to put a quick gasket kit and replace the needle and seats...set the the float levels.

Regardless of the carb being too big (of course) it will still idle and not cause a hazard.. plus you can see what the engine all about.

It may have a few laps left in it for some fun prior to you re-doing it.!

300EVIL
04-03-2011, 10:20 PM
NO! Always have water flow, impellers die quick when run dry.

Got it! Thanks for the advice. The impeller looks "just" okay from what I can see down the output so I'll probably replace it before it's maiden voyage. The impeller is a Jabsco 1210-0001 and the pump model is Jabsco 11850-80. Does the new impeller usually come with a seal kit or do I need to purchase the seals separately? I'm afraid to take apart the pump if I cannot get new seals and gaskets.


Fun Thread to read.. and welcome...

Sounds like your on track to fire it up and see what you got..It does make restoring or fixing up projects more fun if you can hear them run or better yet.. take it out for cruise .

But really.. Pull the carb. its seems you have the know how to put a quick gasket kit and replace the needle and seats...set the the float levels.

Regardless of the carb being too big (of course) it will still idle and not cause a hazard.. plus you can see what the engine all about.

It may have a few laps left in it for some fun prior to you re-doing it.!

Thanks for the welcome and glad you enjoy the thread. :)

Yeah, I pulled the carb today and put it through 2 cans of carb cleaner. :bonk: All the breathers freed up and I also soaked the bowls overnight. I also purged the filter, and the remains of the fuel tank. It looks like really bad, rusty dark brown diesel fuel. Nothing like gasoline! :boggled:

Unfortunately, the magic carb cleaner didn't cut it... While I did manage to rid the carb of the crud, The bowls would not refill with fresh gas. I was getting good pressure to the carb with CLEAN gas but I could never get them to fill. As it turns out, the float valves were so far gone that they expanded to the point of not allowing the bowls to fill. The last straw was breaking the rubber valve off of one of the float valves,,,, I called it quits after that.:frown:

The good news is the carb is all bright and shiny now. I'm gonna sell this ****er on eBay for $1200 and look foward to a brand new 600CFM marine grade Holley carb to show up on my doorstep in a week or two. :yes:

Hey, Anyone here want to buy a 3259-1 Holley carb for $1000? :kingme: It'll save me the eBay and paypal fees. Hell, you could probably turn a small profit flipping it. These things went to Shelby GT350's and AC Cobra's! :nilly:

Also, I got the tank started on today. Ripped out the sender, sightglass and pickup tube.

The inside of the tank looks surprisingly clean given the old vanished gas. The sightglass was actually Polycarbonate! LOL!! It was all mucked up and I'm gonna replace with REAL glass. :wink: The sender is VDO, model no 20155 which has a retrofit replacement. It was also stamped "12 67" which I guess would be the date of MFG. I'm not even gonna try reviving it with as rusty as the frame of the sender was, plus I need new gaskets.

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0161.jpg

The top of the tank was smeared with wherever was avaliable, RTV, Epoxy, Silicone caulk. It had it all!! :bonk:Gaskets were LOONG GONE!

My plan is to take the bare tank to the local radiator rebuild shop and have them tank it. I want a pristine piece before I reassemble this bitch. I was thinking of painting the outside of the tank with epoxy. What is the consensus on this?

Any tips on chipping out the old 2 part foam that holds the tank in the Hull?????? :eek:

Thanks!
Adam

maddad
04-03-2011, 10:30 PM
Adam, when I took my tank out I used a handsaw and made 2 cuts on each side of the tank. One hugging the stringer and one hugging the tank. After I cut all 4 sides the tank popped right out with a little prybar on the bulkhead.

300EVIL
04-03-2011, 10:37 PM
Not trying to argue~~~
Just telling you what you MAY have based on your H/M data tag !
And trying to explain it to you !

It would appear from YOUR reaction that ~~~
It may be hard for you to accept the real true facts ?

Just the same as your boat having Donzi Decals did not make it a Real Donzi !
Someone put those decals on this boat.
You had a hard time accepting the fact that it was a Splash clone; and not a real Donzi.
No true Donzi 16 or 18 ever had such a large hatch opening !

Don't kill me~~~
I'm only the messanger !:cool:

It's still a neat boat, & gift, from your Uncle & Aunt .

Enjoy your new boat !

WOW! Remind me to quote your posts every time.... You come in and re-edit your posts multiple times to make yourself look less like an ass. That's pretty amazing. Do you do any other tricks? :kingme:

gcarter
04-03-2011, 10:41 PM
WOW! Remind me to quote your posts every time.... You come in and re-edit your posts multiple times to make yourself look less like an ass. That's pretty amazing. Do you do any other tricks? :kingme:

Everyone here is kind of imperfect.......that's just the way it is.
But the way you respond to it makes me careful not to help you.

Good luck.

300EVIL
04-03-2011, 10:43 PM
Adam, when I took my tank out I used a handsaw and made 2 cuts on each side of the tank. One hugging the stringer and one hugging the tank. After I cut all 4 sides the tank popped right out with a little prybar on the bulkhead.


Hey MadDad!
Thanks for your post!

I actually have the tank out. My guess is it gave way from the foam many years ago. It didn't even require any force, Just came right out. My problem now is getting the old foam off the fiberglass in the hull to re-fit it properly. Is there some MAGIC liquid I can dump on the foam to make it dissolve? :kingme: OR,,, Do I just have to hammer and chisel it out of there? :confused:

silverghost
04-03-2011, 10:48 PM
I agree with George~~~
The first time I posted very early in this thread to try to HELP you~~~
And explain to you what you really owned ~~~
You responded by kicking me in the teeth !

With YOU it would seem that no help or good deed goes unpunished !

No wonder you call yourself EVIL !
You could not have picked a better name !

Unlike George~~~Who is a really nice guy~~~
I am NOT going to wish you Good Luck !

300EVIL
04-03-2011, 10:50 PM
Everyone here is kind of imperfect.......that's just the way it is.
But the way you respond to it makes me careful not to help you.

Good luck.

Whatever man... I'm a moderator on a few BIG Vbulliten forums. I've learned proper "netiquette" from MANY years of doing this. If you want to take "one", "UN-EDITED" forum post and judge my character, that's up to you.....

I'm really a nice guy but I cannot stand being "SKOOLED" by some guy that thinks he's the **** and has no netiquette. I have no problems with being WRONG but I have problems with people who talk down to newbs just because they can. Get it?

300EVIL
04-03-2011, 11:12 PM
I agree with George~~~
The first time I posted very early in this thread to try to HELP you~~~
And explain to you what you really owned ~~~
You responded by kicking me in the teeth !

With YOU it would seem that no help or good deed goes unpunished !

No wonder you call yourself EVIL !
You could not have picked a better name !

Unlike George~~~
I am NOT going to wish you Good Luck !


WOW! Okay then... Why do you you feel you need to edit your posts like 2-4 times over the course of 2-3 days to "HELP" me??? Why don't you explain this to ALL of us?

HMMMM??? I smell loony!!!! :nilly::boggled::bonk:

Sorry, but I just call it like I see it.

I see nothing in your posts that I could construct as "advice". Mostly criticism, yelling,,, (yeah, that's what we call all those exclamation points.) and sarcasm.

Feel free to go edit away now.

I'd tell you how I got that name but I won't bother filling your head with logic.

Good Luck!
Adam

cutwater
04-04-2011, 08:57 AM
We may have a lot of members, but we're not a "BIG vBulletin" forum. This actually operates more like a pretty small community. I wouldn't start off by saying "whatever" to member with extensive knowledge of the topic in question...

Just Say N20
04-04-2011, 09:24 AM
I can handle logic :)

Rumblefish
04-04-2011, 10:23 AM
We may have a lot of members, but we're not a "BIG vBulletin" forum. This actually operates more like a pretty small community. I wouldn't start off by saying "whatever" to member with extensive knowledge of the topic in question...

So True...

Adam If I might...You have great enthusiam toward your project.. But please dont re direct Hostility where none was given to you.

I simply recomended a needle and seat change and carb kit and off you went with cans of carb cleaner to correct it? mmmmmm Maybe your not as skilled as advertised.

I too am a new Member and as ive learned and said these Members have forgotton more about Donzi boat repair and restoration then you or I know.


So in short.. Read and apply what you feel will work best for your situation. dont be so quick to get upset if someone is just helping to put you in the right direction..

300EVIL
04-05-2011, 12:17 AM
We may have a lot of members, but we're not a "BIG vBulletin" forum. This actually operates more like a pretty small community. I wouldn't start off by saying "whatever" to member with extensive knowledge of the topic in question...

I'm not trying to be disrespectful. gcarter said...


But the way you respond to it makes me careful not to help you.If he doesn't want to help me, or others because of something he read that makes him feel indifferent about someone.... Whatever... By his post count, it does seem he is fairly active in the community and probably has a wealth of knowledge. I can't change his mind though.... :)


So True...

Adam If I might...You have great enthusiam toward your project.. But please dont re direct Hostility where none was given to you.

I simply recomended a needle and seat change and carb kit and off you went with cans of carb cleaner to correct it? mmmmmm Maybe your not as skilled as advertised.

I too am a new Member and as ive learned and said these Members have forgotton more about Donzi boat repair and restoration then you or I know.


So in short.. Read and apply what you feel will work best for your situation. dont be so quick to get upset if someone is just helping to put you in the right direction..

I wasn't trying to act hostel, If you notice my first reply to "silverghost" was quite cordial. His further posts shows (shown) nothing but hostility...

Sorry if I made any of you guys mad. I'm not trying to start trouble. I'm willing to bury the hatchet with ol silverghost and move on. Let's be friends! :angel:

As for the carb....

A. It's really the wrong size for the engine.
B. The rebuild kit is about $90.
C. I plan on selling it anyway.
D. It's worth more in it's original state.

Trust me, I know how to properly rebuild a carb but the seals are too old to risk dis-assembly without replacing, thus the trial of a non invasive action to just get the engine to idle.... for fun... My MAGIC carb cleaner attempt failed... I didn';t have much faith in it but it was worth a try for $8 of carb cleaner. The carb needed a good wash for pics anyway.

Anyway, new Holley 600CFM Marine carb on the way! :)

In other news... I measured my fuel tank today and did the math, it turns out it's a 28 gallon tank! :) I don't think I'll be running out of fuel any time soon on my little lake. :kingme:

Thanks!
Adam

Greg Guimond
04-05-2011, 09:47 AM
Evil, just an fyi, there are only a couple of dozen folks who post here with even occasional regularity so it is very small, not like a big board or the big board :yes:

Gary S
04-05-2011, 06:28 PM
While I don't have a Donzi,I do have a Holman Moody. I was able to get everything but the front cover for my pump from here- http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/8d83d4ae#/8d83d4ae/116. Picture of the pump is on lower right under Correct Craft. I had to replace everything but the cam and main body. Impeller kits only have the impeller and cover gasket in it,no seal. Here is a pic of my HM at the recent Correct Craft St Johns river run
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/garys_01/engin.jpg

Sweet little 16
04-06-2011, 07:39 AM
300, that model jabsco is no longer made and parts like the body of the pump and the cover are hard to find. rebuild kits can still be found. If the cover is worn it can be reversed if that has been done already it can be machined to be made smooth again. The replacement pump is shaped different and will need some engineering to make it work.

The big things to watch for are the teeth on the pully if the star bushing that keeps the teeth on the shaft and the pully from grinding, when that happens you are going to have a headache.

some other thoughts would be to run the motor on an outboard can with a pump ball, use a filter and connect directly to the carb that will eliminate a fuel supply issue.

good luck hope you get it running

300EVIL
04-07-2011, 12:29 AM
Evil, just an fyi, there are only a couple of dozen folks who post here with even occasional regularity so it is very small, not like a big board or the big board :yes:

Ah, I am a member on many forums like this. Thanks for the info.



While I don't have a Donzi,I do have a Holman Moody. I was able to get everything but the front cover for my pump from here- http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/8d83d4ae#/8d83d4ae/116. Picture of the pump is on lower right under Correct Craft. I had to replace everything but the cam and main body. Impeller kits only have the impeller and cover gasket in it,no seal. Here is a pic of my HM at the recent Correct Craft St Johns river run


Good info! Thanks for that. The shaft seal isn't leaking, yet, but there is no point on pushing it. Good looking engine pic! :)


300, that model jabsco is no longer made and parts like the body of the pump and the cover are hard to find. rebuild kits can still be found. If the cover is worn it can be reversed if that has been done already it can be machined to be made smooth again. The replacement pump is shaped different and will need some engineering to make it work.

The big things to watch for are the teeth on the pully if the star bushing that keeps the teeth on the shaft and the pully from grinding, when that happens you are going to have a headache.

some other thoughts would be to run the motor on an outboard can with a pump ball, use a filter and connect directly to the carb that will eliminate a fuel supply issue.

good luck hope you get it running

Thanks again for the great info. I'm glad to hear the pump cover can be reversed if needed. What is a "outboard can" and a "pump ball"? I'm not familiar with these terms.
Thanks!
Adam

300EVIL
04-07-2011, 01:01 AM
OH! I got around to cleaning my tank out yesterday. I got about 4 gallons of the ugliest gas you've ever seen out of it. I'm keeping it now but am afraid to put it in my lawn tools even, It looks horrible!!!

Supprisingly the inside of the tank, from what I can see looks almost brand new, so that's good.

I did find some pitting on the bottom of the tank. My plan is to patch them up, leaking or not. They will eventually leak if they stay that way.

I have already cleaned out the inside of the tank with sodium hydroxide and plan on sanding the outside.

My next plan is to weld the tank!!! :bonk:

Actually just brazing. I have these nifty alloy aluminum rods I bought a decade ago... Watch the Video... http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp

They actually work really well. I'm gonna purge the tank with CO2 first, I'm just too paranoid. My plan is to sandblast the pits with a small bead gun to get the AL2O3 out of the holes, fill with the brazing rods and sand them flat.

I want to paint the bare aluminum tank afterwords to prevent further future corrosion. I have some leftover POR-15 laying around which I know works good on steel but I was also thinking of a 2 part epoxy paint. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Adam

P.S. I'm still looking for suggestions on removing that old foam out of the fuel tank hold. Is there something magic or is a hammer and chisel the way to go?

Just Say N20
04-07-2011, 07:53 AM
For consideration regarding the tank.

When I took my tank out, it didn't look good. It is aluminum and had been painted, but not with the proper type of paint, so it didn't adhere to the aluminum properly.

This allows moisture to form, and be trapped between the paint and the tank. There are some pictures of it in the thread I have been doing (but not adding to lately) about my restoration/rebuild.

I took the tank to a guy who has been building marine aluminum tanks for 25 years (without any failures). He looked at the tank, and began poking all the "suspect" areas with an awl. He told me tanks are made with .125" aluminum, and if an area is weak at all, when you push on it with the awl, it will go right through. He tested everywhere that looked like it could be a problem, and declared the tank fine. I sanded it, and left it unpainted.

There are differing schools of thought about whether or not to paint aluminum tanks, or coat them with something. I'm not saying either is right or wrong. He told me he has NEVER painted a tank, and also never had one pit through. He prefers to allow air around the tank, so any moisture that gets on the aluminum will quickly evaporate away. I decided to go this route, primarily because it was easier, and if there was ever a problem, it would become apparent immediately.

I know George coats his tanks, and foams them in, which I'm sure provides much more support around the tank. I didn't do this because I tried two foaming projects in the past, and both times I blew up what I was making. :bonk:

Post 143
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58186&highlight=deck&page=10

Posts 241, 243
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58186&highlight=deck&page=16

Sweet little 16
04-07-2011, 08:37 AM
outboard can and pump ball ( primer bulb)

300EVIL
04-07-2011, 10:01 PM
For consideration regarding the tank.

When I took my tank out, it didn't look good. It is aluminum and had been painted, but not with the proper type of paint, so it didn't adhere to the aluminum properly.

This allows moisture to form, and be trapped between the paint and the tank. There are some pictures of it in the thread I have been doing (but not adding to lately) about my restoration/rebuild.

I took the tank to a guy who has been building marine aluminum tanks for 25 years (without any failures). He looked at the tank, and began poking all the "suspect" areas with an awl. He told me tanks are made with .125" aluminum, and if an area is weak at all, when you push on it with the awl, it will go right through. He tested everywhere that looked like it could be a problem, and declared the tank fine. I sanded it, and left it unpainted.

There are differing schools of thought about whether or not to paint aluminum tanks, or coat them with something. I'm not saying either is right or wrong. He told me he has NEVER painted a tank, and also never had one pit through. He prefers to allow air around the tank, so any moisture that gets on the aluminum will quickly evaporate away. I decided to go this route, primarily because it was easier, and if there was ever a problem, it would become apparent immediately.

I know George coats his tanks, and foams them in, which I'm sure provides much more support around the tank. I didn't do this because I tried two foaming projects in the past, and both times I blew up what I was making. :bonk:

Post 143
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58186&highlight=deck&page=10

Posts 241, 243
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58186&highlight=deck&page=16


Great info!
You have changed my plans then. I am going to clean and fill the pits as planned but I'll leave the tank bare and figure out how to mount it with breathing room in the tank enclosure and forget foaming it back in. Thick rubber pads as a cushion for the tank makes sense. I'll have to come up with some form of bracket to secure the tank.


outboard can and pump ball ( primer bulb)

Ah! I get it now!! :kingme: Pictures always help. To be honest, I think I'll have the new carb and the repaired tank done soon. I should be good after that. Anyone know the PN for the fuel filter on the HM 289's fuel pump? I'd look but am too lazy to uncover the boat. :)

Gary S
04-08-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm not a fan of fram filters but if you have the original pump like this one,you can use filter CG20 or whatever cross references.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/garys_01/009-1.jpg

realbold
04-08-2011, 01:06 PM
OH! I got around to cleaning my tank out yesterday. I got about 4 gallons of the ugliest gas you've ever seen out of it. I'm keeping it now but am afraid to put it in my lawn tools even, It looks horrible!!!

P.S. I'm still looking for suggestions on removing that old foam out of the fuel tank hold. Is there something magic or is a hammer and chisel the way to go?

Dont run that gas in anything. When I drained mine and used it in the lawn tractor it ran like sh!t for a month.
The foam cuts easily and the rest can be scraped and sanded.

300EVIL
04-08-2011, 10:30 PM
I'm not a fan of fram filters but if you have the original pump like this one,you can use filter CG20 or whatever cross references.



Ah, Thanks for that info, Gary. I'm going to eventually replace the filter for a stand alone unit. Maybe even an electric fuel pump. I'm going to stick with this fuel pump/filter for this season.


Dont run that gas in anything. When I drained mine and used it in the lawn tractor it ran like sh!t for a month.
The foam cuts easily and the rest can be scraped and sanded.

Yeah, probably not, good advice. It's REALLY bad. I think I'll throw it on craigslist and give it away for starting brush fires or something.

What tool would you suggest for cutting the foam?

Thanks!

300EVIL
04-09-2011, 10:47 PM
Thanks to Gary S's post on the fuel filter, I yanked it today and found more treasure!

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0003.jpg

To my surprise, the whole filter housing was packed solid with bits of clear silicone caulk. :lookaroun:

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0001.jpg

My guess is it got there from a seal job on the tank and slowly got sucked up as it broke off inside the tank.

I also found all this rusty gunk at the bottom of the filter housing. EEEW!

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0004.jpg

So, the fuel flow was probably a little hampered by all this. :boggled:

I also gave the block a good degreasing and pressure wash.

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0008.jpg

Just Say N20
04-10-2011, 12:24 AM
So, you said it wouldn't stay running?

No kidding!

300EVIL
04-10-2011, 12:43 AM
So, you said it wouldn't stay running?

No kidding!

HA! How about it. I'm gonna do a compression and leakdown test next, Make sure there's no damn holes in the pistons. :bonk: So far, I don't know what to expect! :cool: Well, Process of elimination.

Sweet little 16
04-10-2011, 07:46 AM
that's why I said run on an outboard can with a temp in-line filter fresh gas fresh filter and you bypass your fuel pump. a sb ford will run at idle with a few squeezes of the ball for quite some time. To keep it running a squeeze every 2 minutes or so. 10 minutes of work see if it runs , if not then you'll have to dig deeper.

good luck

Sweet little 16
04-10-2011, 08:05 AM
some other thoughts as jsyn20 mentioned on your tank. Hard to tell from the pics. The tank looks like it is in the cockpit floor area( not covered by the forward deck). It looked like the tank was covered by a floor locker cover. If so I would not foam it in. on a 16 Donzi the deck covered the tank and the front portion of the floor( solid no seams). they had a pvc pipe that was placed under the tank so water from the bow area could be routed to the bilge. Any water that got into the foam ontop or around the tank had no where to go . This would be a major problem with a tank covered by a floor locker cover in the cockpit floor area. Every quick rainstorm ,errant hose blast when washing her down, and especially every skier or swimmer who came onboard soaking wet could put water into the foam. I would support and secure it in a way to let water out and air in.

300EVIL
04-11-2011, 11:33 PM
that's why I said run on an outboard can with a temp in-line filter fresh gas fresh filter and you bypass your fuel pump. a sb ford will run at idle with a few squeezes of the ball for quite some time. To keep it running a squeeze every 2 minutes or so. 10 minutes of work see if it runs , if not then you'll have to dig deeper.

good luck

Ah, Yeah I see. Well, I'm cleaning out the pump now and will either...

A. Get it working with sufficient pressure and flow as is.
B. Rebuild with new check valves, diaphragms and gaskets.
C. Remove and install an electric fuel pump and regulator.


some other thoughts as jsyn20 mentioned on your tank. Hard to tell from the pics. The tank looks like it is in the cockpit floor area( not covered by the forward deck). It looked like the tank was covered by a floor locker cover. If so I would not foam it in. on a 16 Donzi the deck covered the tank and the front portion of the floor( solid no seams). they had a pvc pipe that was placed under the tank so water from the bow area could be routed to the bilge. Any water that got into the foam ontop or around the tank had no where to go . This would be a major problem with a tank covered by a floor locker cover in the cockpit floor area. Every quick rainstorm ,errant hose blast when washing her down, and especially every skier or swimmer who came onboard soaking wet could put water into the foam. I would support and secure it in a way to let water out and air in.

Correct, the tank is easily accessible from the cockpit floor and is covered by a floor locker cover. The only reason I was considering foaming it in is because it originally was foamed in but I agree that it makes more sense not to foam it back in. Leaving space under there not only lets water flow to the bilge but also keeps the tank accessible and free from sitting water.

I will devise some sort of raised rubber mount for the tank to keep it elevated above the fiberglass and easily removable yet bolted in place. I'll post pics when I get to that point.


In other news....

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0009.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0010.jpg

It's so easy to work on that I figured I'd start stripping it.... Hell. I "MAY" remove the heads too! New gaskets are always a good thing.

A few things I noticed....

1. The left header on the NO.1 cylinder exhaust was leaking water from one of the stud holes but not into the exhaust,,,, thank god... Is this a common issue and is there any good fix for it? I can tell this was a past problem as someone RTV'd the stud hole.

2. The block is stamped "302" Is this a 302 or is this common for a 289 and the block is just bored or stroked differently to make a 289? Sorry, I'm not a Ford guy.

3. The heads are stamped 289.

4. These are definitely solid lifters and I think someone confused the valve lash with the plug gap! :bonk: LOL! Yeah it's that bad...

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0012.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0013.jpg

Thanks!
Adam

300EVIL
04-12-2011, 01:08 AM
Oh, one more note.

I just noticed someone epoxy filled the rear crossover on the Edelbrock intake manifold. Also, the middle crossover of the intake was blocked off with two thin pieces of brass RTV'd in place. I get why this was done but I wanted to get the opinions of others and see if I should leave it or modify. I could leave the rear crossover blocked and bridge the gap with fittings and a hose to keep the heads cooler.

Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks!
Adam

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0017.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0016.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0015.jpg

Rumblefish
04-12-2011, 08:50 AM
Oh, one more note.

I just noticed someone epoxy filled the rear crossover on the Edelbrock intake manifold. Also, the middle crossover of the intake was blocked off with two thin pieces of brass RTV'd in place. I get why this was done but I wanted to get the opinions of others and see if I should leave it or modify. I could leave the rear crossover blocked and bridge the gap with fittings and a hose to keep the heads cooler.

Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks!
Adam

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0017.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0016.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0015.jpg

Hey Adam.. you can go either way.. that was a way of eliminating steam pockets in the back.. ( so people thought) sbc chevy guys used to do the same with cross overtubes.. Not an issue in the marine world im sure.

The cross over plugging for carb heat is hard to keep without it burning through ( as noticed by your pics) Heat tube not needed for choke.. so disregard and use proper high temp sealers with block off plates.

The cylinder head hardware seaping is a result of through or ( blind) holes running to water.. the sealant has gone and is allowing water to seap up. scary under the valve cover though.. Looks like your at a good point to go further and correct that.

Sweet little 16
04-12-2011, 09:40 AM
"The 302 blocks appeared for the first time late in the 1967 model year as 289 engines with casting
numbers beginning C8AE and C8OE, sporting a 302 in the valley area. It is not uncommon to find
a 302 block that was cast and assembled during the summer of 1967 as a 289ci engine. Though
302 blocks looked virtually identical to the 289 block, the cylinder bores had extended skirts to
handle the 302s .019-inch longer stroke. This extended cylinder skirt reduced piston slap and
improved stability for quieter operation. The 302 block evolved to a certain degree in the years
following 1968. While most of these blocks are interchangeable with 289 derivatives dating back to
the 1965 model year, it is important to note that the clutch equalizer pivot boss was deleted from
the left-hand side of the block beginning with the 1975 model year."

from


http://www.mre-books.com/interchange/interchange2.html

you'll need to find the casting numbers on the block. I would say it is not too far from reason to believe that this is the case with your 68 holman moody 289.

Gary S
04-12-2011, 07:24 PM
From what I have found out over the years is that while Ford switched to the 302 in their cars, HM still used the 289 for awhile. In my case my boat was built in December of '68. The HM serial # is for a 289 and that number matches with Correct Craft records.However mine too is a 302,so some where it's been changed too and I have no problems with the extra displacement. Here is the link for a fuel pump kit,you do need to tell them what the number is on the flange of the pump. http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm
I seem to remember that Felpro gaskets come with a block off for the manifold already.

Gary S
04-12-2011, 07:27 PM
The block casting number is located right above the starter,which I think has to be removed to see.

300EVIL
04-15-2011, 01:49 AM
Hey Adam.. you can go either way.. that was a way of eliminating steam pockets in the back.. ( so people thought) sbc chevy guys used to do the same with cross overtubes.. Not an issue in the marine world im sure.

The cross over plugging for carb heat is hard to keep without it burning through ( as noticed by your pics) Heat tube not needed for choke.. so disregard and use proper high temp sealers with block off plates.

The cylinder head hardware seaping is a result of through or ( blind) holes running to water.. the sealant has gone and is allowing water to seap up. scary under the valve cover though.. Looks like your at a good point to go further and correct that.

Hey Rumble!
Thanks for the info, Yeah, since the engine is always taking in cold freshwater it's probobly fine without a crossover tube. I'm going to come up with some nifty, less backyard mechanic way of sealing off the carb heat passages. We'll see...

The leak is in the bolt hole (stud hole rather) on the HM exhaust headers. Gonna bead blast them tomorrow and take a closer look.


"The 302 blocks appeared for the first time late in the 1967 model year as 289 engines with casting
numbers beginning C8AE and C8OE, sporting a “302” in the valley area. It is not uncommon to find
a 302 block that was cast and assembled during the summer of 1967 as a 289ci engine. Though
302 blocks looked virtually identical to the 289 block, the cylinder bores had extended skirts to
handle the 302’s .019-inch longer stroke. This extended cylinder skirt reduced piston slap and
improved stability for quieter operation. The 302 block evolved to a certain degree in the years
following 1968. While most of these blocks are interchangeable with 289 derivatives dating back to
the 1965 model year, it is important to note that the clutch equalizer pivot boss was deleted from
the left-hand side of the block beginning with the 1975 model year."

from


http://www.mre-books.com/interchange/interchange2.html

you'll need to find the casting numbers on the block. I would say it is not too far from reason to believe that this is the case with your 68 holman moody 289.

Thanks for the great info! That all makes sense. I'll have to take a closer look at the casting numbers the starter does a good job of hiding it.



From what I have found out over the years is that while Ford switched to the 302 in their cars, HM still used the 289 for awhile. In my case my boat was built in December of '68. The HM serial # is for a 289 and that number matches with Correct Craft records.However mine too is a 302,so some where it's been changed too and I have no problems with the extra displacement. Here is the link for a fuel pump kit,you do need to tell them what the number is on the flange of the pump. http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm
I seem to remember that Felpro gaskets come with a block off for the manifold already.


The block casting number is located right above the starter,which I think has to be removed to see.

Yeah, starter definitely has to be removed to see the whole number. Thanks for the link on the pump rebuild. I'm currently deciding between rebuilding it and just installing an electric pump, regulator and fuel/water separator marine type filter. We'll see.

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0067.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0070.jpg

I went ahead and pulled the heads today. I'm going a step further now and having them hot tanked and maybe a valve job. After pulling a few valves, I noticed that the intake valves were practically "glued" in place with all the varnish. I literally had to pound the valves loose. Even though they were closed when I took the heads off and the spring pressure is enormous. I can imagine the valves were reacting quite slow when I was trying to start it as is.

From what I'm seeing in the valve seat, it looks like there a little off. I'll know more after I lap them. They may need a valve job but the guides look okay.

What gasket set do you guys recommend? The head gaskets I found were high quality Fel-Pro. I just want to make sure there isn't a "Marine Grade" gasket set I should be using.
Thanks!
Adam

Gary S
04-15-2011, 08:28 PM
Adam I have run Fel Pro in the past,they seemed fine but when I put my new heads on I used PCM head gaskets.I got them here,you can just just buy single ones http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RM0018 Manifold gaskets in my opinion does not make a difference,I used Fel Pro. Not that it matters but it looks as if those are the original pistons,they have the dish in the center. Don't spend alot of money on those heads,I had the same ones,there are better ones out there,I'm running gt40p's now,you can feel the difference. http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=40

Heres my block,you can see the different pistons

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/garys_01/Dcp_0945.jpg

300EVIL
04-15-2011, 10:34 PM
Adam I have run Fel Pro in the past,they seemed fine but when I put my new heads on I used PCM head gaskets.I got them here,you can just just buy single ones http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RM0018 Manifold gaskets in my opinion does not make a difference,I used Fel Pro. Not that it matters but it looks as if those are the original pistons,they have the dish in the center. Don't spend alot of money on those heads,I had the same ones,there are better ones out there,I'm running gt40p's now,you can feel the difference. http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=40

Heres my block,you can see the different pistons

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/garys_01/Dcp_0945.jpg

Hey Gary!
Thanks again for the great info. That seems like a great deal on those head gaskets and they look strong too. I'll get those. I'll stick with Fel-Pro for the intake and exhaust as well.

Yeah, I don't think the bottom end was ever touched. They most likely are original pistons, rods, crank ect.... I took the heads to a machine shop today, he says the valves are something aftermarket and the springs are Chevy. I'll probably need a valve job when it's all said and done. Like $200 for the heads refurbed back to serviceable.

I did check into the GT-40 heads before hand, while they are nice, they are just not in the cards right now. In the future, I will consider this move or complete engine upgrades. I may also do a little porting on the stock 289 heads but mostly just for fun, I doubt I'd gain much. I have never ported a steel head before.... LOL.

It seems you have a little more CR than my 9.3:1. The TDC seems a bit higher than mine and your fly cuts are deeper without the dish as well. I'm guessing you're at 10 to 11:1 CR? Nice head studs BTW, I use ARP on all my race stuff.


Also, my new carb arrived today!!! :shades: I got a factory refurb 600CFM Holley 4150 marine double pumper with mechanical secondaries and auto choke. Not bad for $300. 600CFM is a tad big for a 289 but better than 715. I want this way so I could carry the carb onto a larger displacement engine in the future if I wanted to.

I ended up getting $750 for my old carb so I have $450 extra to spend on the "Tune-Up"..... :kingme:

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/SAM_1291.jpg

Gary S
04-16-2011, 12:15 AM
That is a nice carb for the money,almost looks like they didn't have any rebuilt ones available and just sent you a new one!I too have a 600 I'm going to try next also. 200 for the heads sounds good,I had way more in mine and all I ended up with was basically stock heads. I have no idea on my compression,when I had the heads off I forgot to measure the deck height cuz I was in a hurry. If you ever go with the studs it's a real tight fit with the HM manifolds,I had to use a dremel to clearance them.

300EVIL
04-16-2011, 01:22 AM
That is a nice carb for the money,almost looks like they didn't have any rebuilt ones available and just sent you a new one!I too have a 600 I'm going to try next also. 200 for the heads sounds good,I had way more in mine and all I ended up with was basically stock heads. I have no idea on my compression,when I had the heads off I forgot to measure the deck height cuz I was in a hurry. If you ever go with the studs it's a real tight fit with the HM manifolds,I had to use a dremel to clearance them.

After careful inspection, I can't tell the difference. Doesn't look used at all! The normal wear you'd see from the butterfly's hitting the wall are not there. The carb is basically new. They go for $517 on Holly's site. http://www.holley.com/0-80559.asp I'd say $300 was a steal.

Well, next time you are in there,,, (Hopefully just for fun!! LOL...) Make sure you CC the block and the heads. You can just use a syringe, some gasoline and a piece of plexiglass with a small hole. That'll tell you where your at for compression. My guess is at least 10:1.

Yeah, I could imagine! I rarely ever have to break out a box end wrench to remove plugs. :) Speaking of headers, I got them apart too. I took the manifolds over to my friends airplane rebuild hangar and bead blasted everything. The headers need a little paint stripping first. I plan on Jet-Hot coating them in the near future to improve flow and decrease wear on the aluminum.

Anyone know where I can get new gaskets for the "U" pipes on the HM headers? The old ones appear to be some sort of fiber reinforced phenolic and I think I can sand and reuse if needed.

300EVIL
04-16-2011, 09:41 PM
One more question, I noticed some people are not running the choke while some are. Given I don't plan on starting the engine in below 70F weather, should I keep the electronic choke or just set it low so it opens sooner? Opinions?

Rumblefish
04-17-2011, 08:07 AM
One more question, I noticed some people are not running the choke while some are. Given I don't plan on starting the engine in below 70F weather, should I keep the electronic choke or just set it low so it opens sooner? Opinions?

Keep it.. Boat throttle feathering at the dock with a cold engine is tricky with most shifters. My carb Boats i nuetral pump the throttle then start.

If the idle circuit is rich she will idle fairly quickly but I would set the electric choke for the blades lightly touching, then back down from there.

300EVIL
04-18-2011, 02:31 AM
Keep it.. Boat throttle feathering at the dock with a cold engine is tricky with most shifters. My carb Boats i nuetral pump the throttle then start.

If the idle circuit is rich she will idle fairly quickly but I would set the electric choke for the blades lightly touching, then back down from there.


Hey Matt,
Excellent info! Thanks for the advice, this is what I will do.

Also, there is my manifold all bead blasted and painted. Once you go black, you never go back! :kingme:

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/SAM_1292.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/SAM_1293.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/SAM_1294.jpg

Gary S
04-19-2011, 09:10 PM
Exhaust gasket wise you must have something different,mine were just gasket material,so I had to make some.I do know that mine have been apart before I got it,so who knows what was done.

300EVIL
04-28-2011, 01:02 AM
Exhaust gasket wise you must have something different,mine were just gasket material,so I had to make some.I do know that mine have been apart before I got it,so who knows what was done.

Hey Gary, Thanks for the info, I'm gonna try and salvage these but if that doesn't work, I'll make my own. These gaskets are hard and stiff but I think regular gasket material would work too.

In other news, these cleaned up nicely....

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/SAM_1318.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/SAM_1319.jpg

They were borderline needing a valve job and new guides. I decided to pass since I could get a set of aluminum GT-40 heads on eBay for the $500 they wanted to charge me for the grind and guides. I'll probably run them this season and switch to aluminum heads next year.

300EVIL
07-27-2011, 02:13 AM
Okay! Engine back together! :shades:

Before...

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0144.jpg

After...

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/aaaaaaaa.jpg

I just finished it yesterday and it runs great! Compression seems great but needs a little more break-in before I test. Throttle response is excellent and the cam in this thing is pretty wild. Sounds awesome. I'll post some video soon.

The engine side is basically done for the season (what's left of it) except for installation of the MSD distributor, coil and ignition box. I had to wait because I want to match the timing curve on the original dizzy to start and redo all the wiring which is now in progress. I had to get the engine purring again first.

Here is some additional work I've been doing....

The fuel pump was roached so I had to rebuild it. Luckily the gaskets and diaphragms were still good and now it works great. Not bad for a couple cents worth of screws and labor.

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0015-1.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0016-1.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0018.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0030.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0032.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0037.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0040.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0042.jpg


So, before I could put the block together, I had to remove the 4 lbs of dirt and sand from the block! ICK! I'm seriously surprised the block made it out alive with all this muck in it.

See that brown on the carpet? That's all dirt I blew out of the block cooing ports.....

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0002a.jpg

All the freeze plugs were bad and leaking so ofcourse I replaced them after cleaning out and flushing the block. I went ahead and degreased and painted the block as well as de-carbon the pistons. All the bolts were replaced with some high quality stainless steel hardware before the top end was re-assembled.

Here are the heads prepped and painted before being mounted.

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0184-1.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0202.jpg


The fuel tank had to get a little attention also. First off the thing was so neglected and dirty the first thing I had to do was wash it and sand it to see where the mysterious fuel smell was coming from.

Sure enough the bottom of the tank was pitted all over. A quick go over with an el-cheapo sand blaster cleaned all the oxides out of the pits.

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0073-2.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0079.jpg

Then I found this HUGE one in the corner.... There's the problem!

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0065-1.jpg

Fortunately I had some aluminum brazing rod laying around. It works excellent for fixing all these pits and holes.

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0080.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0081.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0105.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0154.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0125.jpg


I also completely rebuilt the water pump but I seem to be missing those pictures right now. The pump definitely needed the rebuild and looks like new now.

My new task is to tackle the wiring and the interior/carpet.
Here is the wiring mess I cut out.... It will look much cleaner when I'm finished...

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0052.jpg

Here is my brother and I ripping out the old carpet and sweating our asses off while scraping off old carpet glue.....

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0004-1.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0011.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0010-1.jpg

More to come!

I hope to be on the lake in the next week or so. This winter the hull is getting split; full gel coat and repair. Should be fun, never did fiberglass work before.

Just Say N20
07-27-2011, 07:09 AM
Holy Accomplishments, Batman!

No wonder you have not posted for a while; you have been too busy working on your boat!

Excellent progress, and very nice job with the work you have recently completed.

zelatore
07-27-2011, 10:58 AM
Wow - and you still have a day job too? Way to go - no sitting around complaining about the trolls for you!

GBond
07-27-2011, 12:28 PM
+1 Git R Done.....

300EVIL
07-27-2011, 11:19 PM
Holy Accomplishments, Batman!
No wonder you have not posted for a while; you have been too busy working on your boat!
Excellent progress, and very nice job with the work you have recently completed.

Yeah, I want to get this thing on the water before the lake is ice! :kingme:

Any chance you can suggest some good, cheap carpet glue? I was thinking some 3M super 77. I want to be able to yank it out again over the winter when I re-do the hull.

Thanks for the compliments!


Wow - and you still have a day job too? Way to go - no sitting around complaining about the trolls for you!

HA! Yeah, I work at home so taking a break for a couple hours to work on hobbies and other side projects is pretty easy. Thanks!



+1 Git R Done.....

Thanks! :shades:

JimG
07-28-2011, 07:38 AM
Wow! Great thread! Good job 300Evil! You are the kind of guy this forum needs!!:crossfing:

zelatore
07-28-2011, 10:12 AM
Any chance you can suggest some good, cheap carpet glue? I was thinking some 3M super 77. I want to be able to yank it out again over the winter when I re-do the hull.


I've used 77 on a lot of things but I don't think I've ever tried it on carpet. If you're planning to pull it back out this winter anyway I think it would be a good choice. Then when you're ready to put it in permanently I'd use a heavier mastic type adhesive you trowel on.

The other option is to use a carpet with a good backing and just make it snap in. Easier to clean or replace down the road if you need to. You can have nice custom carpets made on-line at places like BoatUS (Carl had them do the carpet for his 'carl cabin') or a good canvas shop might be able to make one for you locally.

300EVIL
07-30-2011, 01:44 AM
Wow! Great thread! Good job 300Evil! You are the kind of guy this forum needs!!:crossfing:

Thanks!


I've used 77 on a lot of things but I don't think I've ever tried it on carpet. If you're planning to pull it back out this winter anyway I think it would be a good choice. Then when you're ready to put it in permanently I'd use a heavier mastic type adhesive you trowel on.

The other option is to use a carpet with a good backing and just make it snap in. Easier to clean or replace down the road if you need to. You can have nice custom carpets made on-line at places like BoatUS (Carl had them do the carpet for his 'carl cabin') or a good canvas shop might be able to make one for you locally.

Good Idea with the snap in carpet I may just have to look into that as an option in stead since I'm going a step further. Thanks!

In other news...

Cluster****ed....

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0164.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0052.jpg


ClusterUn-****ed...

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0028.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0043.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0045.jpg

gmcars10
07-30-2011, 09:43 PM
300Evil, you are definitely an asset to this board. I have read every posting on here. I enjoy learning (from everyone) but definitely see the difference between 'love at first site' and dating for a long time. I have this passion in something else but as of yet not in boats. There is an old Mandela single seater out there that I should tackle.

I read way more than I post and am also a newbie, you are doing a great job!!!

300EVIL
08-24-2011, 05:37 AM
300Evil, you are definitely an asset to this board. I have read every posting on here. I enjoy learning (from everyone) but definitely see the difference between 'love at first site' and dating for a long time. I have this passion in something else but as of yet not in boats. There is an old Mandela single seater out there that I should tackle.

I read way more than I post and am also a newbie, you are doing a great job!!!


Thanks man!
I have too many hobbies, I seem to pick all the expensive ones too. :confused:

Mechanical things and I have a great relationship. I've been taking things apart since 2 years old and eventually figured out how to put them back together. LOL


I have a passion for fixing things. This boat gives me pleasure because I can take it apart. That's about it. I really don't have a passion for watercraft but I like the idea of making it all work like a symphony.

Anyhooo, Here are some wiring pics. I gutted every piece of wiring in the vessle and started from scratch. I found a whole bunch of mistakes and un-fused mains and rebuilt the entire thing correctly.

Not to brag, (well, maybe just a little...) but I was wiring for NASA when I was 10. Long story.... I love proper wiring....

It's a snake!

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0004-2.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0005.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/DSC_0022.jpg

mattyboy
08-24-2011, 10:04 AM
Evil,


if your setup has an external voltage regulator please post some upclose pics of the regulator and the alternator.

I have a few diagrams but they contradict each other.

Thanks

300EVIL
08-28-2011, 01:26 AM
Evil,


if your setup has an external voltage regulator please post some upclose pics of the regulator and the alternator.

I have a few diagrams but they contradict each other.

Thanks

Eh, I went through the same thing with my regulator. Lots of contradicting schematics. I don't think a pic of my wiring will help because everything is in looms.
Check out this schematic and see if that helps you out.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26769&d=1282406504

I (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26769&d=1282406504)f you have a specific question on where something is wired, let me know, I'd be glad to help.

Adam

Gary S
08-28-2011, 09:14 AM
Does this help?

67650

mattyboy
09-01-2011, 05:01 PM
Thanks guys but I have scrapped the ammeter and went with a volt meter, the coil has an internal resistor so those diagrams don't actually matchup but they are drawings I have not seen so the may help to cross-reference


the alt has the following connectors and where I will terminate

Ground wired to the block ground

Field to the F on the regulator

Stator no connection

Battery to the Battery( input) side of the circuit breaker


using a standard merc harness for wiring


I'll figure it out , black wire dead, purple wire H :shocking: T

mattyboy
09-05-2011, 11:33 AM
In this diagram it looks as if the unregulated output of the alt goes thru the regulator and the regulated output is to the "ign on" circuit.
the field and stator are also connected.

bzsmarina
09-05-2011, 09:04 PM
yes the I on the reg goes to ing on. this is how mine is wired. matty please pm me. thank you. http://www.junkyardgenius.com/charging/ford02.htm

300EVIL
09-06-2011, 11:43 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

Hmm, Does your alternator have a Stator connection? Mine just had Field so it's more of a generator. "S" on the ford regulator can also be connected to switched 12V power source. Just don't connect it to the same leg as your coil or the motor won't shut off! :wink:

"I" is optional. It serves no purpose other than a dummy light.


In other news. Forget all that points BS and mechanical timing junk. :kingme:


http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/1.jpg

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t321/hightechstuff2/My%20Donzi/3.jpg

16 Deg BTDC up to 1500 RPM then sharply climbs to 36 deg. :pimp:

Throttle response is like a whole new engine. Not bad for $125 worth of junk on fleabay. New MSD wires and dizzy too.

mattyboy
09-07-2011, 08:04 AM
well now that clears up everything

evil says the I is optional for an idiot light but the HM diagram Gary posted shows I going to the ign resistor??

only one way to solve this, going to have to buy lunch for a friends Dad who spent decades at the Ford Mahwah NJ plant a few beers and a few dozen on the half shell. I'll keep you posted.

300EVIL
09-08-2011, 02:46 AM
Ha! Don't feel bad man, I was confused too. I found TONS of different pinouts. For that matter, different internal circuitry on the regulator too. I plan on getting a new one from Ford as Mine only seems to output 13.5V where I should be outputting 14 ish at least.

I can tell you this.... The only wires that are NECESSARY are as follows....

A = Directly to battery positive.

Housing/chassis = Directly to battery negative.

S = Switched 12V source or stator. (NOTE: Attach to ACC on your keyswitch. If your coil is is on keyswitch RUN and connected to "S", You cannot shut the motor off without grounding the negitive coil terminal to ground. {found out the hard way :wink:}

F = Alternator field.

With these four connections, It will charge the battery.

Good luck my friend!
Adam