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Conquistador_del_mar
02-14-2011, 09:49 PM
I thought some of you might enjoy seeing a few side by side pictures of a regular TRS and a speedmaster TRS - both are #IIs. You will see some differences in the cavitation plate depth, overall depth, drive length, and especially the hub diameter. The prop shafts are also different - hard to find props for the speedmaster. The upper is the same on both drives. Check out the bullet on the drive. Bill

HOWARD O
02-14-2011, 10:06 PM
That's really interesting, Bill. The bullet shape really is pronounced. Do you suppose they'd all be that way if it weren't for accomodating through the hub exhaust? I wonder if my performance would suffer by throwing on one of those speedmaster lowers (even if I could find one)? I would imagine it would since it's so much deeper in the water.

Anyway, cool side by side pics! Thanks! :yes:

Conquistador_del_mar
02-15-2011, 12:05 PM
That's really interesting, Bill. The bullet shape really is pronounced. Do you suppose they'd all be that way if it weren't for accomodating through the hub exhaust? I wonder if my performance would suffer by throwing on one of those speedmaster lowers (even if I could find one)? I would imagine it would since it's so much deeper in the water.

Anyway, cool side by side pics! Thanks! :yes:

Hopefully, I will be able to report the speed difference since I am installing one on my 1979 Martini. It will not be comparing apples to apples though, since I will also be running a completely different prop. It should be faster with the reduced drag. Bill

The Hedgehog
02-15-2011, 01:20 PM
That is a neat pic.

Pismo
02-15-2011, 07:23 PM
Very cool. As I recall the SSii bolts right up to the TRS upper. Deeper but more hydrodynamic. Will be interesting to see if it is faster or slower. Tough to get parts and props.

Greg Guimond
02-15-2011, 08:10 PM
Very cool side by side. That is an amazingly long bullet.

Conquistador_del_mar
02-15-2011, 08:12 PM
Very cool. As I recall the SSii bolts right up to the TRS upper. Deeper but more hydrodynamic. Will be interesting to see if it is faster or slower. Tough to get parts and props.

I think you are correct on all counts. I can't believe it would be anything but faster with such a reduction in the mass of the hub having to punch a hole through the water. Unfortunately, the prop shaft calls for old school 3 blade props. I actually thought about having the shaft redone to a conventional 1 1/4" splined shaft, but the first man I talked to about the idea nixed it saying the strength of the metal would be lost. Still thinking about the idea, though. Bill

blackboat
02-15-2011, 08:50 PM
Do you know what pitch prop you will need?

Conquistador_del_mar
02-16-2011, 12:59 AM
Do you know what pitch prop you will need?

Since the outdrive is a 1.5 ratio and right now I only have a 330HP engine, I am thinking no more than a 23P pitch RH. I talked to a man in Florida last week who only had a 28P. Do you have some II speedmaster props? Bill

HOWARD O
02-16-2011, 01:59 PM
Mine is running a 24 pitch Turbo1 with the 330. Not apples to apples though, I know.

blackboat
02-16-2011, 02:08 PM
I have a 3 blade NIBRAL offshore cleaver which should fit that 1 1/4 shaft with 19 splines. Right hand. You are welcome to try it out when ready.
It is a 16 x 23 pitch.

Conquistador_del_mar
02-16-2011, 02:34 PM
I have a 3 blade NIBRAL offshore cleaver which should fit that 1 1/4 shaft with 19 splines. Right hand. You are welcome to try it out when ready.
It is a 16 x 23 pitch.

Wow! If it is the one with a 4" long hub and 1 3/8" hole with about 2" of 1 1/4" 19 splined shaft, it is the exact one I would love to try. I would pay for it if this all sounds like what you have. :yes: Here is my email address. Thanks, Bill

Dgill25960@aol.com

blackboat
02-16-2011, 04:01 PM
Bill, Sounds right! I will check it when I get home from work.

Conquistador_del_mar
02-18-2011, 02:14 AM
Bill, Sounds right! I will check it when I get home from work.

Hi Mike,
I want to thank you for sending me a 3 blade Nibral cleaver 23P prop that will likely work without modifications as per our emails. I just got in the 4 blade prop that I was hoping to modify, but apparently the man in Florida was correct. It is massively larger than I anticipated and there is no way I will be able to take an inch or more off the leading hub or I will be into the blades. It is a work of art and meant for a IIIa or IV speedmaster with the longer prop shaft. This prop weighs an amazing 17.6lbs !! After seeing it, I realize why it retailed for $2266.00 back when it was made. Apparently this one was never mounted or used. Thanks again, Bill

Ghost
02-18-2011, 03:43 AM
These propellers...

are making...

me thirsty.

Conquistador_del_mar
02-24-2011, 09:01 PM
Mike sent me the 3 blade nibral speedmaster prop which fits perfectly. It looks like it will really push some serious water. I polished it a little last night before taking out to my shop for mounting. I will repaint the drive and get the necessary washer and prop nut. Thanks again, Mike! Bill

silverghost
02-24-2011, 09:26 PM
Bill~~
A number of those very costly props you did not use disappeared off of several boats stored on pile in slip lifts two years ago in Ocean City NJ !

That same year an entire Speedmaster lower unit was stolen off another boat on an in-water lift !

All thefts happened during the mid week during the middle of the July summer season.
The thefts were all behind private lagoon front homes .
Boatyard thefts are also up too !

It was thought that another boat pulled right in behind the boats on the pile lifts and removed the props & entre lower Speedmaster unit !

The neighbors saw nothing !

Thefts on boats have been getting very bad here~~~
Especially with old hard to find & costly new speed outdrive parts !

pipnit
02-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Foose!!!

Conquistador_del_mar
02-24-2011, 10:32 PM
Bill~~
A number of those very costly props you did not use disappeared off of several boats stored on pile in slip lifts two years ago in Ocean City NJ !

That same year an entire Speedmaster lower unit was stolen off another boat on an in-water lift !

All thefts happened during the mid week during the middle of the July summer season.
The thefts were all behind private lagoon front homes .
Boatyard thefts are also up too !

It was thought that another boat pulled right in behind the boats on the pile lifts and removed the props & entre lower Speedmaster unit !

The neighbors saw nothing !

Thefts on boats have been getting very bad here~~~
Especially with old hard to find & costly new speed outdrive parts !

Are you guessing that I am buying stolen merchandise? I don't. We have our share of thefts here, too. In fact, I was instrumental in recovering a boat and Seadoo that was stolen from my boat storage facility a couple years ago - the only theft after 15 years of my operation. That guy is behind bars as we speak. I also recovered my old 24' Excalibur that was stolen from me in 1979 when it came up for sale 4 years later. I handed that one over to the Dallas detectives.
The NOS prop I just recently bought came from a boat dealership in Fond Du Lac and was sold to me on Ebay. My II Speedmaster drive came from Florida and a member of this site, but I bought it on Ebay. The used Nibral also came from another member of this site who is another classic race boating fan with lots of parts like myself.


Foose!!!

Chip Foose? This one I just don't understand - sorry. Bill

silverghost
02-24-2011, 11:19 PM
BILL :
I never intended to imply that you were, or ever would, buy stolen performance boat parts.

My intent was to warn you & others on the forum that these old & rare & very costly performance outdrives & props were the target of thefts here in my South Jersey Ocean City NJ boating area !

It seems that the harder these old performance Speedmaster drives & props become to locate anywhere used~~~~The more they become the target of theft !

OMC later model drives are another big theft target !

Watch your rare & valuable outdrives in Southern New Jersey guys !

BILL:
Sorry for ANY misunderstanding !~~~

Conquistador_del_mar
02-25-2011, 01:59 AM
BILL :
I never intended to imply that you were, or ever would, buy stolen performance boat parts.

My intent was to warn you & others on the forum that these old & rare & very costly performance outdrives & props were the target of thefts here in my South Jersey Ocen City NJ boating area !

It seems that the harder these old performance Speedmaster drives & props become to locate anywhere used~~~~The more they become the target of theft !

OMC later model drives are another big theft target !

Watch your rare & valuable outdrives in Southern New Jersey guys !

BILL:
Sorry for ANY misunderstanding !~~~

You are one of the true GOOD GUYS here on this great Donzi forum !

Thanks. Maybe I was a little defensive since I didn't know where you were coming from with the theft thing. Around here, a somewhat common theft item are regular outdrives if a boat is left out for extended periods of time. We really don't have much of a problem with theft - probably since it is common knowledge that thieves can be shot. I know it sounds callous, but thieving is not tolerated here. We have the Castle Law to help protect home, life, and possessions which works to the law abiding citizen's benefit. I sure hope I never have to use deadly force, but I would if there were no alternative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

I do have a great story, though. A Seadoo was stolen from the dock of a friend of mine who is 75 years old. He had it for his grandkids. After looking all over the lake, he found it at a remote beach area a couple weeks later. He grabbed the kid off by his hair and threatened to beat the tar out of him when a off-duty policeman intervened and took the thief into custody - :yes:.

pipnit
02-25-2011, 11:01 AM
Chip Foose? This one I just don't understand - sorry. Bill

Sorry, the Prop is sitting on a fooseball table, one of my old addictions but I still get excited when I see a table.
That is one WILD prop btw!

Conquistador_del_mar
02-25-2011, 11:38 AM
Sorry, the Prop is sitting on a fooseball table, one of my old addictions but I still get excited when I see a table.
That is one WILD prop btw!

Would you believe that I got that fooseball table out of my dumpster a couple years ago? I knew my wife used to really enjoy playing fooseball so I got it out and had to build legs for it according to the standard height measurements I found online. She couldn't believe that she now has her own table instead of putting in quarters to play - :wink:
Yep, I will be trying to find a new home for that outrageous prop before it turns into another candle holder - lol.

blackboat
02-25-2011, 01:21 PM
Bill

The prop looks good on your drive,hope it works out for ya !

MDonziM
02-25-2011, 02:39 PM
Mike sent me the 3 blade nibral speedmaster prop which fits perfectly. It looks like it will really push some serious water. I polished it a little last night before taking out to my shop for mounting. I will repaint the drive and get the necessary washer and prop nut. Thanks again, Mike! Bill

Thats an awesome find/offer from Blackboat, Bill. Looks like the diameter is a tight fit. Can't wait to hear how it performs.

- Marshall

HallJ
02-27-2011, 09:54 PM
Bill,

I greet you from the frozen north! The winters are unspeakable.

For fun, could you compare the dimensions of the Mercury speedmaster lower to the dimensions of the e-drive?

If one were to move from the south to the north for anything other than employment, I would have to make accusations of mental illness. :bonk:

Jeff

Conquistador_del_mar
02-27-2011, 10:08 PM
Bill

The prop looks good on your drive,hope it works out for ya !

Mike,
Thank you again. I was amazed that you had it!


Thats an awesome find/offer from Blackboat, Bill. Looks like the diameter is a tight fit. Can't wait to hear how it performs.

- Marshall

It has less than 1/2" clearance from the cavitation plate - yep, tight fit.


Bill,

I greet you from the frozen north! The winters are unspeakable.

For fun, could you compare the dimensions of the Mercury speedmaster lower to the dimensions of the e-drive?

If one were to move from the south to the north for anything other than employment, I would have to make accusations of mental illness. :bonk:

Jeff

Jeff, I will try to remember to take some measurements tomorrow when I get to my shop and report them here. No arguement on moving to the North here - in fact my younger sister had to leave Burlington, VT to keep her sanity - lol Bill

BUIZILLA
02-28-2011, 07:51 AM
it wouldn't surprise me if the original lower didn't work out better in this application..

Conquistador_del_mar
02-28-2011, 12:37 PM
For fun, could you compare the dimensions of the Mercury speedmaster lower to the dimensions of the e-drive?

Here are the measurements:
E- drive, TRSII SSM, regular TRS
largest diameter of the lower drive - 3 3/4", 3 3/4", 4 3/4"
length of lower bullet - 20 1/4", 25 3/4", *
length of gearcase under cav plate - 16 1/4", 16 1/4", *
cav plate to bottom of shaft hub - 9", 9 7/8", *

* - did not measure

I was actually a little surprised at how similar they are with the exception of the shaft hub length (bullet). When I get a chance, I will take a picture of the E-drive beside the TRS SSM and edit this post with the picture and any other measurements someone wants.


it wouldn't surprise me if the original lower didn't work out better in this application..

Are you guessing this due to the drive not being mounted higher or the limited choice of old school props for the SSM? By the way, I am actually wondering the same thing at this point. However, the area of the hubs having to punch through the water will make a huge difference. The TRS SSM is only 11.05 square inches compared to 17.72 square inches for the regular TRS. The regular TRS is 60.36% larger!

BUIZILLA
02-28-2011, 01:05 PM
the speedy drive you have is deeper, and your hull / power isn't fast enough to take advantage of dynamics, and the cleaver design you have is massive blade area that you can't turn efficiently...

just my opinion of course..

Conquistador_del_mar
02-28-2011, 02:49 PM
the speedy drive you have is deeper, and your hull / power isn't fast enough to take advantage of dynamics, and the cleaver design you have is massive blade area that you can't turn efficiently...

just my opinion of course..

Jim,
Do you think 450HP would get me in the 75MPH area to take advantage of the SSM?

BUIZILLA
02-28-2011, 02:58 PM
IMO..... nope

Conquistador_del_mar
03-01-2011, 02:05 AM
Jim,
Do you think 450HP would get me in the 75MPH area to take advantage of the SSM?


IMO..... nope

Oops! Brain fart here - lol. I forgot where I was starting from at 55MPH GPS. I should have said roughly 68MPH. I mention 450HP since the 454 could easily be rebuilt to 450HP from the 330HP. Bill

blackboat
03-04-2011, 10:38 PM
Bill

Buizilla is correct,if these large diameter props are run too deep,it takes more horsepower and torque to turn them.
The speedmaster drive and these props are most efficient when run with a higher X dimension. Thats why the blades have a larger diameter,and thicker blades.
We had a 1979 24 foot Superboat with 500+HP running 75mph with one of these cleavers. These two were 17 " diameter,I had them cut down to 15" after trying them out on my 20 foot Sutphen.

pipnit
03-15-2012, 12:27 PM
sorry to dig this thread up. I'm curious if you ever got to run the trs / speed master setup and what the results were.

Thanks!

Conquistador_del_mar
03-15-2012, 02:43 PM
No. I have not run one yet, but I might try a pair on the 38' Cigarette Top Gun that I recently bought. Bill