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View Full Version : Any benefit to a twin stick shifter/throttle?



Donziweasel
01-02-2011, 10:03 AM
Surfing around and found a late model 22 with many upgrades for sale. One was that he had taken off the throttle and replaced it with a twin stick. While cool, I was wondering if there is really any benefit.

mc donzi
01-02-2011, 11:43 AM
I have a 22C with the Volvo DPX package. I was never happy with the Volvo shifter.. especially around a dock. When you shifted into reverse, sometimes the engine would rev up and quite frankly it could be embarrassing.

Last summer I installed a 2 stick Dana shifter and I love it!! No more surprises at the dock. The mounting base is the same shade of red as the bezels on the gauges so yeah, it does look good as well.

tmh
01-02-2011, 12:15 PM
The smooth movement and the ability to make small and effortless changes in throttle is the primary reason I like the Dana shifter. I wish neutral was a bit more defined as to shifting out of forward. I wish it had a reverse safety stop to help at the dock when going back and forth between forward, neutral, and reverse but I'd buy the Dana again without hesitation. The unique look also appeals to me.
T.M. Hayes

MOP
01-02-2011, 12:26 PM
Having had my hands on more shifters than we have members, I know they can cause issues in panic situations. Grab the wrong stick at the wrong time and all hell can break loose, I have seen a few tranny's and drives blown from guys slamming reverse thinking they were killing the throttle. Problems with single lever units usually relate to adjustment or an untrained or over zealous operator.

Mr X
01-02-2011, 12:43 PM
I love my Dana!
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42540&d=1232899624

Sweet little 16
01-02-2011, 12:49 PM
the dual stick one that I learned to drive on had a lock out on it so the shifter couldn't be moved once the throttle was moved more than 1/4 throttle.

so the throttle needed to be pulled back or set at idle or a little more before the shifter would work also could only go full throttle when the shifter was in fwd.
granted that was on an early 1960's outboard and once you had it down it was easy to get around the docks. since then only single lever boats and it did take some time to get use to. surprised the newer dual sticks don't have the same type of lock outs

MOP
01-02-2011, 01:39 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=free+picture+resizer&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

MOP
01-02-2011, 01:55 PM
Some off site input! http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013757.html http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/318654-dual-controls-vs-single-lever.html http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/261738-installed-single-lever-controls-pics.html You can love them all you want but when the day comes not if that you do have an issue the bling factor will become far less interesting and safty will come first!

Mr X
01-02-2011, 03:39 PM
If I get to the point where I can't remember what the short stick does versus the long one, I will sell the boat and check into the nursing home :wink:

Carl C
01-02-2011, 04:12 PM
If I get to the point where I can't remember what the short stick does versus the long one, I will sell the boat and check into the nursing home :wink: Like the old folks who confuse the accelerator with the brake pedal:shocking:

mc donzi
01-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Some off site input! http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/013757.html http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/318654-dual-controls-vs-single-lever.html http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/261738-installed-single-lever-controls-pics.html You can love them all you want but when the day comes not if that you do have an issue the bling factor will become far less interesting and safty will come first!


I bought my Dana for the comfort factor... the bling was a bonus!!

Inferno
01-02-2011, 04:27 PM
Yes... The duel shifters takes alittle time to get use to. The fun is when you have a 38 ft offshore raceboat with triple shifters,triple crash boxes and need to dock in a tight space. My 22 this year will have Livorsi duel shifters.I'll let you try them,but you must be sober... :)

justleft
01-02-2011, 09:06 PM
I like twin sticks. But sometimes I look like a 3 armed monkey when docking.

1 hand on the shifter, 1 hand on the throttle, and 1 hand steering :nilly:

The Hedgehog
01-02-2011, 10:05 PM
If I get to the point where I can't remember what the short stick does versus the long one, I will sell the boat and check into the nursing home :wink:

Agreed,

I have not seen a Dana rigged that way. That is really cool. Did you rig that custom or is that a stock setup from Dana? The version I have seen is the side throttle.

Mr X
01-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Not to mention all the Twin engine ZR's, ZX's and cruisers.
They have 4 sticks to deal with!

Hedge,
I bought it from Dana that way.

MOP
01-03-2011, 11:47 AM
If I get to the point where I can't remember what the short stick does versus the long one, I will sell the boat and check into the nursing home :wink:

It is not a matter of remembering is is the accidental happenings, one of the most vivid "memories" I have is of a couple with a Formula. He had it worked a bit but did not run the speeds most of us do, he was jumping a wave and "accidentally" knocked it out of gear. He said reached to pull the throttle and missed it and pulled the shifter. Surprisingly nothing happened mechanically, but his wife got a hefty gash in her forehead. She refused to ever ride in the boat again it was sold shortly there after! Many do not take into consideration how hard they play and how quick things can happen at the speeds we run, keep it safe and keep it fun. Bravado sucks when it comes to safety!

VetteLT193
01-03-2011, 12:01 PM
The separate shifter/throttle makes it easier to drive fast for sure. if you need to pull back on the sticks you can't go too far. if you hit a big wave, you won't accidentally knock the boat out of gear and into neutral.

For docking, I never had a problem with twin sticks... It can only be a problem when docking in a situation where throttle is very much needed (heavy current / wind). most of the time I don't need the throttle so for me it's much simpler with the gas separate from the throttle.

The Minx was the first boat in a very long time that I owned with an all in one unit and I quickly changed it for a Gaffrig setup. I like the Kiekhaefer better than Gaffrig, the 'detent' is aggressive in them so they don't feel sloppy at all.

What it comes down to is personal preference. if you don't have a problem with what you have, don't bother changing it.

roadtrip se
01-03-2011, 05:17 PM
with two different sets of throttles.

One is a 22 Classic and the other is a 370SS Formula.

While they are very, very different craft, obviously, I feel I can control the Formula around the docks much better than the Donzi. And a lot of it has to do with the separate shift and throttle sticks.

I will admit that the new Livorsi Uflex stick in the Donzi is an improvement over the Mercury unit, but it still doesn't give me the control separate sticks do on the big boat. Moving the Donzi around tight quarters is still a semi-controlled crash landing for me. Always has been.

But then I always had twin sticks in my previous performance boats, so I have a preference from the get-go.

Mr X
01-03-2011, 07:16 PM
It is not a matter of remembering is is the accidental happenings, one of the most vivid "memories" I have is of a couple with a Formula. He had it worked a bit but did not run the speeds most of us do, he was jumping a wave and "accidentally" knocked it out of gear. He said reached to pull the throttle and missed it and pulled the shifter. Surprisingly nothing happened mechanically, but his wife got a hefty gash in her forehead. She refused to ever ride in the boat again it was sold shortly there after! Many do not take into consideration how hard they play and how quick things can happen at the speeds we run, keep it safe and keep it fun. Bravado sucks when it comes to safety!
Sounds like he was not qualified to run the boat...no matter how many
levers, knobs and buttons there were or were not.
I bet he is not a commercial pilot either. I guess my point is, saftey is realitive.. Knowing your limitations is key.

zelatore
01-03-2011, 07:29 PM
For what it's worth, I switch back and forth between single and dual setups all the time with the yachts we work on/sell. These are all twin engine boats of course, and the trend is toward single lever setups. In fact, I haven't seen a diesel boat with separate levers in a long time. It certainly makes it easier to teach new owners with the single lever setup, and on multi-helm boats it's also much easier to install, plus you have the same feel regardless of if you're at the pilot house, flybridge, a wing station, or a cockpit station. With mechanical systems, even with everything adjusted just right you still have the drag of the different length cables to deal with.

My Carver has traditional separate controls. I don't plan to spend the money, but I'd love to switch it to single lever electronics. It would free up helm space for nav gear, look nicer, and feel nicer. Plus it would make it easier for Michele to run the boat.

On the other hand, on my Donzi I'd gladly switch to something like MrX has on his 22, and might just do it one day. Partly because the stock Merc control is pretty poor, though I know aftermarket single controls would help with that, and partly because it just looks cool.

The Hedgehog
01-03-2011, 08:37 PM
Thanks X, I guess that I need to buy something from Dana so I can get a new catalog. That is a dang nice looking setup.

Tripper, I thought that you had the Zeus setup on the Formula. Lol

Now back to the subject. I like two much better. I could see that happening on the X one day. Not this year but one day. I like to be able to shift gears with authority. That can get a little dicey with a big prop on a light single when using a single shift.

Rodger
01-04-2011, 06:59 AM
Having had my hands on more shifters than we have members, I know they can cause issues in panic situations. Grab the wrong stick at the wrong time and all hell can break loose, I have seen a few tranny's and drives blown from guys slamming reverse thinking they were killing the throttle. Problems with single lever units usually relate to adjustment or an untrained or over zealous operator.


Agree. As long as the single lever control is adjusted properly, it is fine.

LuauLounge
01-04-2011, 09:05 PM
Been boating for 40 years....
Both single and dual engine.
I currently have a 22Zx with a 496 HO.
It had the Merc single handle control.
My complaints were:
The shift interlock
The 45 degree swing between F and R, then at 46 degrees, you are on the throttle.

Installed the Dana Side Mount, it was the best money I have spent on the boat. Docking is a dream, I can put it wherever I want it.

Would never go back.......

GBond
01-04-2011, 09:36 PM
......... personal preference.

Phil S
01-04-2011, 09:53 PM
"He said reached to pull the throttle and missed it and pulled the shifter."

I agree with your safety points MOP, but at any speed less than idle shouldn't one already have their hand on the throttle stick instead of having to reach for it "in a situation" ? I can't imagine running at 15-25-35 mph without my hand firmly planted on the throttle stick. I'm not knocking either set-up, I'm just saying my hand tends to ride on the throttle stick at all times under way (over idle).

BTW MOP, I appreciate all of your help and advice helping me struggle through getting my old Cobra drive set-up correctly. She slips in and out of gear very smoothly (with a single stick) thanks to all of your advice & posts ! Very much appreciated my friend !!

I can certainly see how docking with twins with four sticks could make one appear like a three-armed something, but I've seen many a Captain pull it off flawlessly...with wind, and current at play, and I am always amazed by that and their skill.

Every now and again I get it "right", but I tend to belong in the v-e-r-y slow controlled crash docking-maneuver - ropes, paddles, bumpers, & "remain seated until the ride is over" at the full-ready club.:wink:

With kind regards,
Phil S.

Donziweasel
01-05-2011, 09:37 AM
I'll let you try them,but you must be sober...

Stan, we were both at Chattanooga. Per my personal experience, I am not sure that is a reality..... :) :)

Love to try it though, maybe being at AOTH with Boo Boo and the twins will diminish the thirst I seem to immediatly aquire when hanging around my Donzi buddies. :) :)

THEDONZ33
01-06-2011, 07:48 PM
I belive it is totally personal preference.
I also think there is an application for both styles. For me in a performance boat I like seperate gear/throttle levers.
For larger cruisers and sport Fishing boats, docking and handling around the Marinas Single Throttle/gear levers are much easier.
Can anyone ID this shifter and a suplier. I would like this one for my 16 Classic.

LuauLounge
01-06-2011, 10:38 PM
I belive it is totally personal preference.
I also think there is an application for both styles. For me in a performance boat I like seperate gear/throttle levers.
For larger cruisers and sport Fishing boats, docking and handling around the Marinas Single Throttle/gear levers are much easier.
Can anyone ID this shifter and a suplier. I would like this one for my 16 Classic.

That would be the Dana.

http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=33&catid=592&productid=4748&CFID=1157789&CFTOKEN=5cd1455-cb4dbc26-224b-41ab-afdf-25aaa654db58

You might want to check out a group buy:
http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40725

mc donzi
01-07-2011, 08:32 AM
That would be the Dana.

http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=33&catid=592&productid=4748&CFID=1157789&CFTOKEN=5cd1455-cb4dbc26-224b-41ab-afdf-25aaa654db58

You might want to check out a group buy:
http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40725


That's the model that I installed last summer... love it!! Comes in multiple colours.

rchevelle71
01-07-2011, 08:37 AM
Bottom line is.................

If you are running in water, or in a manner where the boat needs to be "Throttled", meaning getting air, the twin sticks with the separate shifter is a MUST!!!