22 Classic Trailer Advice???

[StuM]

I'm looking to replace my recently sold Boston Whaler with a 22 Classic. The dealer is trying to sell me a new and nicely outfitted Myco trailer, fit to the Classic, for $6500. This seems to be about double what a reasonable trailer should cost and what I've paid before for a similar sized unit. I will keep the boat in a boathouse, in slings, so the trailer will get very little use.
1) Doesn't $6500 seem high for this trailer?
2) Who might recommend another trailer for th22 Classic hull?

Thanks very much, in advance.

[Bob]

$6500 is ridiculous. Performance Trailer in NY is about 3k for a steel 22 trailer. I'm looking for a 22 trailer but an aluminum one. I looked over a Venture for 3.1k and am also interested in an Ace trailer that has gotten good reviews here. Like you, it will be used little so I'm going for low maintenance and reasonable cost.

[BUIZILLA]

Stu.... where do you boat?

[StuM]

I usually boat out of the Houston/Clear Lake, Tx area. Brackish and salt water. Thus, galvanized assumed better bet, even if trailer rarely gets dipped.

[RickSE]

This sounds like the black Myco that was under the 09-Edition in TX. It's a nice trailer but way overpriced. The cost on my 2002 painted Myco was $3800.

[Donzi Vol]

Talk to RedDog. He got a new trailer around this time last year. Custom to his 22 and delivered to his house. No idea how much he paid, though.

[Cuda]

I paid $3500 for my custom built triple axle aluninum trailer under my Formula.

My old 22 had the original steel trailer under it, and it was non adjustable. One dip in salt water and a steel trailer WILL rust out.
Rust never sleeps.

[Offset]

Try Loadmaster Aluminum Trailers in Florida (there is another Loadmaster making steel trailers in Ohio). Mine seems to be high quality piece and their customer service is great. I bought mine used so I am not sure about price but I was really impressed with Loadmaster when I needed their help sorting out a VIN issue. Good luck with your search.

Murray Adam

[Marvair]

I usually boat out of the Houston/Clear Lake, Tx area. Brackish and salt water. Thus, galvanized assumed better bet, even if trailer rarely gets dipped.


Good Morning,

Here's a link to the builder I used. I live in Galveston and looked all over the Houston area for an aluminum custom trailer and they were the best hands down. This trailer fits perfect, tows great, loads easily, and gets loads of complements. You'll spend between $3500. and $4500. depending on the options and there are loads. If you would like to see mine let me know http://www.horizontrailers.com David or Nathan. The'll remember the red Shelby Donzi.


Marvin.

[roadtrip se]

to consider might be to get the dealer to sober up and sell the package at a reasonable price.

I am sure he doesn't want the trailer sitting around after he manages to sell you the boat, so I would suggest calling Bill Tweedy at MYCO and getting a price for the exact trailer under the boat. You can reach him at 941.748.2397. Then, you will know whether the dealer price for that particular trailer is realistic or not.

As a personal point of reference, my aluminum MYCO with a ton of options under my 22 was $5500 in 2005. I would be sure to get a build sheet on this particular trailer from the dealer, so you really are comparing apples and apples. All opinions aside on this thread, I would spend that again in a heartbeat for the trailer I have and the thousands of miles I pull every year. If you want
more details, feel free to PM me.

Good luck with getting your hands on the right boat and trailer package. And when you do, we hope to see you at AOTH!

[Cuda]

If you pay $5500 for a trailer you paid about $3000 too much.

I live in the center of the trailer building capitol, I've been to most of them.

[BUIZILLA]

the costs of raw aluminum have gone up SUBSTANTIALLY the last 3-4 years, since most of you have had trailers built... this is 2010, not 2005-2007

not to mention the price of SS brakes

and tires..

you won't get a good alum. tandem 22 trailer with brakes, with correct bunks, with radials, for under 4k..

keyword > good

[undertaker]

I have a steel MYCO under my 22 classic, have all the options and was 6500 back in 2005...Love this trailer I like Roadtrip have trailered thousands of miles with no issues at all. I would buy a MYCO again no questions....


When shopping trailers make sure you compare apples to apples, there is a difference in trailer mfg's....In My Opinion....For steel trailers its MYCO or Performance trailers in Lake George, NY they are the best two again IMO, aluminum cant give you great advice not knowledgeable enough with those BUT have seen some big aluminum MYCO'S under large boats that are awesome and have seen Roadtrips MYCO under his 22 which is nice also.

Good luck do some research but dont be afraid of working the dealer a little to get that MYCO set up..:nilly::cool!:

Undertaker:cool!:

[RickSE]

Joe, if I paid $5500 for a top of the line, high quality trailer and got exactly what I wanted, ...

Plus the Myco is a fully welded Aluminum trailer; a lot more labor then a bolt together.

[gcarter]

Can anyone tell me of any advantages of a steel (painted or galvanized) trailer over an aluminum trailer????

Some advantages of aluminum:

Great corrosion resistance.
About two thirds lighter
Eats up far less of the total weight a vehicle can tow than a steel trailer.
Now, someone give me some great reasons for purchasing a steel trailer.
I mean, very sound reasons, mind changing reasons.

[undertaker]

They look cooler!!!!!!:biggrin.::yes::nilly::cool!:

[RickSE]

Steel has a lot of fundamental advantages over Aluminum. I would not use an Aluminum trailer for long travels over rough roads due to the fatigue characteristics unless it's way over designed.

Fatigue
Aluminum fatigue performance is less than ½ that of steel.

Formability
Aluminum's Formability is approximately 2/3 that of steel (less forming range).

Hardness
Aluminum's hardness is lower than steel's. Stone chips and surface quality are harder to maintain for an aluminum body over a vehicle's lifecycle.

Damping
Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH). The ability of any material to attenuate airborne noise is directly proportional to its mass. Regarding airborne noise, steel clearly has an advantage in most cases.

Above info from:

http://xnet3.uss.com/auto/steelvsal/basicfacts.htm

[Marlin275]

Now, someone give me some great reasons for purchasing a steel trailer.
I mean, very sound reasons, mind changing reasons.

The steel trailers won't float like some aluminum ones do!
How do you get a boat on a floating trailer without scratching and dings?

[gcarter]

The steel trailers won't float like some aluminum ones do!
How do you get a boat on a floating trailer without scratching and dings?

Put brakes on every axle.
They will NOT float.

[gcarter]

Steel has a lot of fundamental advantages over Aluminum. I would not use an Aluminum trailer for long travels over rough roads due to the fatigue characteristics unless it's way over designed.

Fatigue
Aluminum fatigue performance is less than ½ that of steel.

Formability
Aluminum's Formability is approximately 2/3 that of steel (less forming range).

Hardness
Aluminum's hardness is lower than steel's. Stone chips and surface quality are harder to maintain for an aluminum body over a vehicle's lifecycle.

Damping
Noise, Vibration, and Harshness (NVH). The ability of any material to attenuate airborne noise is directly proportional to its mass. Regarding airborne noise, steel clearly has an advantage in most cases.

Above info from:

http://xnet3.uss.com/auto/steelvsal/basicfacts.htm

Steel trailers, even galvanized, rust.

[Cuda]

Galvanized WILL rust, only slower.

[MOP]

From the early 60's I towed nothing but galvanized steel trailers, when I bought the 22 it had one under it. I towed it down from New Hampshire and all I could think of on the way back damn this thing is some heavy, Well Dah I was towing a 16 before. Anyway the long and the short, Rust & Rot helped me get an aluminum one. The difference is not night and day it is light years! The steel trailer could not be moved by my garden tractor the Aluminum is a breeze, the difference in towing cannot be compared. Anyone who thinks steel is in anyway better is not thinking clear, my trailer is now five years old and constantly dipped in SALT! Except for the iron fasteners it still looks great, $50 worth of hardware will make them look new but they are still just fine. We have all heard of steel trailers letting their owners down, even one that was on the way to a 1K event. Yes they do look cool until they rust through and that they do! The statement about durability are just plain BS, we have yards out by me with abandoned trailers the aluminum ones age unknown but quite old are in amazing condition the steel ones are feeding nutrients back into the soil. You can have your cool steel I now will always have a reliable, super long lasting very easy to tow aluminum one at about 1/3 less the price. I think you steel proponents are living in the dark ages.

[undertaker]

MYCO steel trailers are C channel steel so they will not rust threw but will rust if dipped in salt all the time..... If you going to run in salt common sense says dont buy a steel trailer, I think the original question that started the thread was is 6500 high for a MYCO I say NO, however I would still try to work a deal with the dealer for the MYCO because overpriced or not a MYCO is a damn nice trailer nobody can argue that and if you do your nuts....:yes:

I dont usually post to much about what other people say but CUDA, even MOP you guys need to read over your posts and do some editing....

Todd you make sense to me but we actually go to events and run and trailer our boats so what do we know:pimp:

Undertaker

[Cuda]

A friend of mine bought a brand new MYCO steel trailer under his brand new Pantera. He was one pissed off dude when it rusted out after MYCO told him it wouldn't. Myco didn't do anything about it either.

A rose by any name will smell just as sweet.

[Cuda]

MYCO steel trailers are C channel steel so they will not rust threw but will rust if dipped in salt all the time..... If you going to run in salt common sense says dont buy a steel trailer, I think the original question that started the thread was is 6500 high for a MYCO I say NO, however I would still try to work a deal with the dealer for the MYCO because overpriced or not a MYCO is a damn nice trailer nobody can argue that and if you do your nuts....:yes:
I dont usually post to much about what other people say but CUDA, even MOP you guys need to read over your posts and do some editing....
Todd you make sense to me but we actually go to events and run and trailer our boats so what do we know:pimp:
Undertaker
I threw a ball once but never once had anything rust threw.

[MOP]

Back to the original ? Does anyone remember that the gent boats in Brackish/SALT water now really should he buy steel that should be the question!

[Bob]

"Back to the original ? Does anyone remember that the gent boats in Brackish/SALT water now really should he buy steel that should be the question! "


He also said that it would get little use other than storage.

Why buy a "Super Deluxe, gold plated, left hand welded, special edition with extra stickers and a matching kevlar winch strap" if he tows it less than a few miles each year?

His needs seem quite basic.

[Greg Guimond]

I want to know is if there is an aluminum trailer builder in a 200 mile radius of NYC. Ok, 300 miles :yes:

[Sweet little 16]

Venture trailers in MD.

[undertaker]

I threw a ball once but never once had anything rust threw.



:rolleyes::troll::odie::toilet:

[undertaker]

Back to the original ? Does anyone remember that the gent boats in Brackish/SALT water now really should he buy steel that should be the question!


Exactly and like I said earlier in this hijacked thread....NO....but if he dips it in Salt twice a yr max. then he should be ok with the MYCO because its C channel....IF he can work a deal for the MYCO why not it makes a great package with a 22 classic....AND if he would ever want to maybe attend an event he would have a solid rig to do so...

Undertaker:cool!:

[zelatore]

Venture trailers in MD.

I have a 2008 aluminum tandem Venture under my '01 22. I'd call it 'OK'. It's made a few long runs, like it's first run from the east coast to the west, and the run from Sacramento to Powell, but for the most part I've made local runs of 50 miles or less with it. I dunk it in fresh water 99% of the time, but have put it in some brackish water once or twice here in the delta.

It tows nicely enough, no complaints there. I did add a small extra bunk at the forward cross-memeber and raised the standard bow V-bunk by about 1.5" as the first time I retrieved the boat was at a steep ramp and the bow wanted to submarine under the bow roller unless I got it to exactly the right water depth. This would not be a problem at a 'normal' ramp. I also added a set of 'goal posts' to make lining her up easier. They may offer that as a factory option, but if not it's cheap and easy to add.

I've never had an issue with floating. Not even a little. It has typical Tie-Down drum surge brakes that actually work better than any surge type system I've ever towed before. Maybe that's just because it was new when I got it and not some abused 20 year old POS.

I don't recall exactly what I paid for it, but I believe about $3000. In this case the boat was being sold without a trailer by Jackson Marine and since I was on the other side of the country I didn't have a lot of opportunity to look into trailers. I asked Jackson to get me a trailer and this is what they suggested so I went with it. I would expect you could get it a bit cheaper by going direct to Venture instead of buying through the dealer like I did.

One slightly unusual feature is that the fenders are separate diamond plate arches instead of one long fender over both wheels. Not especially significant, but the arch does mean they are plenty strong to stand on (if maybe a bit more of a challenge to keep your balance on) and I've had a few people comment that they like the look.

Would I buy another one? Probably. I don't think it's anything special but I don't have any major complaints about it either. However if I was looking closer to home instead of on the opposite side of the country I'd probably shop around a bit more just for the comfort factor. It certainly won't add any resale value to the boat the way a MYCO might, but it does it's job just fine.

So there's my 5-minute critique of a Venture trailer. Enjoy. :)

[BUIZILLA]

I have a spring axle tandem Venture under my Sea Hunt...

not a bad trailer, surge drums work awesome, but the original set literally rusted horribly, and fell off going down the highway....

tows great though

love the hump fenders..

my BIG beef, is all of the hardware is rusting/corroding, everywhere, every single bolt, nut, washer, pin, axle springs, axle clamps, spring brackets, lights, bunk supports, yada yada..this is a less than 5 year old trailer that is washed diligently every splash..... I have to change all that stuff to SS this next week or so

[gcarter]

my BIG beef, is all of the hardware is rusting/corroding, everywhere, every single bolt, nut, washer, pin, axle springs, axle clamps, spring brackets, lights, bunk supports, yada yada..this is a less than 5 year old trailer that is washed diligently every splash..... I have to change all that stuff to SS this next week or so

That would be my complaint too.
At the time of fabrication, it couldn't cost more than an additional $50-$75 to go all SST.
Bummer!

[gcarter]

I needed a trailer when I bought the Minx to use to tow it from Ohio. I bought a used galvanized trailer that looked "OK" and it was useful.
After a while, it became clear that i needed an aluminum trailer as all the hardware was rusted out.
I was able to barter water treatment equipment for a new aluminum trailer. I probably towed the Minx about 10,000 miles w/it. It was, overall, a pretty good trailer.
I have another now that came w/the TR. I was planning on replacing all the hardware at the appropriate time, then someone stole the aluminum wheels and tires off it. It's now sitting on the brake disks. They'll (the wheels and tires) get replaced next spring.

[Team Jefe]

Stu, Marv and Trip have some good advise. You will pay more for a Myco, but I'm not all that sure you will get more. I have a loadmaster and have put many 10's of thousands of miles on it with only tire size being an issue.

Still, your best bet is to make the deal with teh trailer included...just makes things much easier in the loing run.

Drop me a line some time...we can meet up and talk DONZI

713-825-2443

[Cuda]

There are only about 3 or 4 trailer suppliers in Florida. I was in the business for a while. Seeing how Myco's are made in Bradenton, I'm sure they get parts from the same suppliers as other companies that have been badmouthed on here as being inferior. Just because it has a Myco sticker on it doesn't make it better, it just makes it more expensive. Captain Jack at Quickload has probably made trailers before I could drive, The man who did my boat covers for me told me stories of he and Jack in the islands way back. There is no substitute for experience.

[zelatore]

my BIG beef, is all of the hardware is rusting/corroding, everywhere, every single bolt, nut, washer, pin, axle springs, axle clamps, spring brackets, lights, bunk supports, yada yada..this is a less than 5 year old trailer that is washed diligently every splash..... I have to change all that stuff to SS this next week or so

Oh great, now I'm going to have to go out and look closely at mine...you've got me paranoid!

But not before lunch. Home-made potato soup with bacon. mmmmmm....bacon.:yes:

[CHACHI]

I had a MYCO, when I had my Minx. It was a steel trailer and it towed very well.

When I purchased my 22 it was sitting on an Eagle trailer, also steel.

Towed that 22 all the to the Canadian border(Upstate NY). I towed from Little Rock. The person I purchased it from towed it from San Antonio to Little Rock to meet me. It also towed very well, 75 MPH all day and I never knew it was there.

If I had to buy another steel trailer, I would buy the MYCO because with the "C" channel construction, it is possible to sandblast all sides of the frame rails for re-building. With my Eagle trailer, or any steel square tube trailer, this can't be done. You just can't get the inside of the tube clean.

I had my MYCO sandblasted and re-painted for $750.00. Completly rebuit it, tires, bunks, lights, wiring, and all hardware, (S/S of course) for a total investment $1200.00. Oh yeah, MYCO sent me new decals N/C along with all the other warning stickers and a new VIN tag.

A new trailer for $1200.00 tough to beat.

My 2 cents.

Ken

[gcarter]

You can refinish an aluminum trailer w/some Scotch-Brite.
Maybe $10.00 and some time!
LOL

[Cuda]

You can refinish an aluminum trailer w/some Scotch-Brite.
Maybe $10.00 and some time!
LOL
True dat. You've seen Catch 22's trailer. One year it looked like polished stainless steel, and the next Hometown Rally it looked like it was chrome dipped. :)

[osur866]

I've got a Loadmaster and feel that it's an ok trailer, it's welded steel construction and the boat sits well in the cradle style bunks, I tow atleast 3,000 - 4,000 miles a year other than replacing tires I've had to rebuild the passenger side surge drum brake. There's things I like about it and hate, the likes, good heavy welded steel construction, good bunk system, heavy duty fenders that you can step on, led lights, and the surge brakes, it pulls well for a single axle trailer. The downfalls, it's a single axle trailer, it is way too wide for my classic 18, behind the fenders there is no step to stand on. The absolute neatest trailer I've seen for an 18 classic has got to be Pearson's his nice tandlem axle, narrow axles, that actually fits our narrow beam classics, pretty sure it had brakes, throw In a breakaway tongue and it would fit my needs perfectly!! Best thing to do is just go look at some trailers and see the quality first hand, once you see some of the trailers it won't be hard to see the quality differences if you really look. If you plan on towing many miles a season do yourself a favor and get yourself a good trailer that fits your needs and budget, I like my Loadmaster ok but also feel as tho it could be improved upon, ya know hind site, so do your research. My .02 Steve

[undertaker]

I've got a Loadmaster and feel that it's an ok trailer, it's welded steel construction and the boat sits well in the cradle style bunks, I tow atleast 3,000 - 4,000 miles a year other than replacing tires I've had to rebuild the passenger side surge drum brake. There's things I like about it and hate, the likes, good heavy welded steel construction, good bunk system, heavy duty fenders that you can step on, led lights, and the surge brakes, it pulls well for a single axle trailer. The downfalls, it's a single axle trailer, it is way too wide for my classic 18, behind the fenders there is no step to stand on. The absolute neatest trailer I've seen for an 18 classic has got to be Pearson's his nice tandlem axle, narrow axles, that actually fits our narrow beam classics, pretty sure it had brakes, throw In a breakaway tongue and it would fit my needs perfectly!! Best thing to do is just go look at some trailers and see the quality first hand, once you see some of the trailers it won't be hard to see the quality differences if you really look. If you plan on towing many miles a season do yourself a favor and get yourself a good trailer that fits your needs and budget, I like my Loadmaster ok but also feel as tho it could be improved upon, ya know hind site, so do your research. My .02 Steve


Well said and great advice!!!:yes::yes:

[undertaker]

I had a MYCO, (sorry Joe, but they spell it in caps), when I had my Minx. It was a steel trailer and it towed very well.

When I purchased my 22 it was sitting on an Eagle trailer, also steel.

Towed that 22 all the to the Canadian border(Upstate NY). I towed from Little Rock. The person I purchased it from towed it from San Antonio to Little Rock to meet me. It also towed very well, 75 MPH all day and I never knew it was there.

If I had to buy another steel trailer, I would buy the MYCO because with the "C" channel construction, it is possible to sandblast all sides of the frame rails for re-building. With my Eagle trailer, or any steel square tube trailer, this can't be done. You just can't get the inside of the tube clean.

I had my MYCO sandblasted and re-painted for $750.00. Completly rebuit it, tires, bunks, lights, wiring, and all hardware, (S/S of course) for a total investment $1200.00. Oh yeah, MYCO sent me new decals N/C along with all the other warning stickers and a new VIN tag.

A new trailer for $1200.00 tough to beat.

My 2 cents.

Ken

Well said also....:yes::nilly::kingme:

[undertaker]

StuM....welcome to the board:eek::pimp::biggrin:.if ya wanna talk MYCO, Donzi 22 classics, Performance Trailer (Lake George, NY, Scott Pearson's trailer mfg.) feel free to shoot me an email or private message....

Keep us posted on how you make out with your 22 classic deal.... :biggrin:

Happy Holidays

[GBond]

Now, does anyone else have something to offer Stu in his quest to find a trailer?[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Stu has something in the works at this point!

BTW...I have a aluminum MYCO Cuda, and it's a disappointment. :biggrin:

[gcarter]

When I first started frequenting this site, Rolls trailers were the "end all" of trailers, not MYCO.
Whatever happened to Rolls?

Now my next question,assuming a welded MYCO is $4,500-$5,500 for what I suppose is a custom built trailer for a particular boat.
Now, is the extra $1,000, or so, worth it compared to an equally well constructed and fitted bolted trailer?
Some people will pay for the reputation of a name whether it's actually better or not......Rolls Royce comes to mind.

If someone wants a good trailer, I suppose there's plenty of good builders around, like the builder that constructed Bob's single axle 22 trailer.
I never heard of them, but apparently they come highly reccomended and the end result is apparently pretty impressive.

[RickSE]

...I suppose there's plenty of good builders around, ...

Yes; Pacific, Roadrunner, VIP & Oklahoma Trailer are a few good ones that I know of and they probably won't cost $6500 for painted steel. I really feel that the dealer is using this trailer to make additional money off the sale.

As for Myco, I love their trailers but they do have issues like everyone else and there's no way I'd pay $6500 for one of their steel trailers. I had issues with my $3800 painted steel Myco that they wouldn't fix; so I fixed it myself.

[Cuda]

The Rolls trailers are made in Plant City, I've been to their shop. Their claim to fame was the Rolls greaseless hubs, which work fine until you crack one, then I assure you you'd wish it was a grease hub.

[zelatore]

When I first started frequenting this site, Rolls trailers were the "end all" of trailers, not MYCO.
Whatever happened to Rolls?

Now my next question,assuming a welded MYCO is $4,500-$5,500 for what I suppose is a custom built trailer for a particular boat.
Now, is the extra $1,000, or so, worth it compared to an equally well constructed and fitted bolted trailer?
Some people will pay for the reputation of a name whether it's actually better or not......Rolls Royce comes to mind.

If someone wants a good trailer, I suppose there's plenty of good builders around, like the builder that constructed Bob's single axle 22 trailer.
I never heard of them, but apparently they come highly reccomended and the end result is apparently pretty impressive.


Good point George. The one thing you can say for MYCO that you couldn't say for an equally well built but unknown trailer is that you would have a resale advantage with the nationally known brand. How much I couldn't say, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

[roadtrip se]

I like the fit of a custom welded trailer, be it steel or aluminum. I have gone with aluminum as of late, because I don’t like caring for chipped paint and for the weight savings, and to give me the flexibility to attend salt water-based events, should someone put one on that looks interesting.

I have already stated why I like my MYCO, multiple times here, but when I was shopping for a trailer for my pocket cruiser a couple of years ago, I went with Manning. They were close to me, they have a great reputation, and they could have a trailer to me in three to four weeks. The price was also attractive when compared to the other brands I shopped, including MYCO, Eagle, and some others.

The Manning fit the cruiser like a glove, it was easy to unload and load, and the set-up allowed me to stop the whole rig anywhere I wanted to with ease, even on a steep grade. Jill is less than 120#s and she was able to handle the trailering duties pretty well on some extreme launch ramps.

It is an opinion, but my experience points to a welded trailer versus a bolt-together for fit, finish, and ultimately, less hassles at the ramp. It could say “Pull it In Style with Ying Yang Trailers” as far as I care,
but I will recommend a custom fit, welded trailer every time, when asked. And you don’t have to necessarily buy a MYCO to get it, either.

[BUIZILLA]

i'm liking the AmeriTrail lately..

[Cuda]

I have never once had a bolt come loose on a bolted trailer. And I had the Fastload for 21 years.

[harbormaster]

I have sanitized this thread. I would like to personally apologize for other folks hijacking your thread. I am in the Houston Area. You have overlooked a super quality Trailer builder right under your nose. In this area you need an aluminum trailer with a saltwater kit. McClain trailers are great. They also have great customer service. Call me at my office Victory Marine 713-910-2000 or cell 713-898-0605. I believe I can get you dealer pricing. Scot VanAlstine

[Donzi Vol]

I have sanitized this thread.

Thank you Scot. I believe there is another thread lurking that might need some cleaning as well.

[StuM]

Thanks to all and to Scot, at the end, re the local contact. I did talk to them and will get with them, if and when I make my move. The Dallas Donzi dealer continues to unsettle me with a very "take-it-or leave it" attitude and the overpriced Myco continuance. I'm now looking elsewhere for a boat, as an option.
StuM