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gcarter
12-18-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm trying to finalize the layout of the Donzi 009 based dash.
Josh sent me a scalable file that I had printed full size. I taped it onto the existing TR dash glass to determine the "new" versus the "old", so to speak. If you've seen pictures of the TR dash, you've observed it's pretty well chopped up. Filling in the dash glass was never an option as I was always going to use a seperate dash of some material.
Anyway, the first thing that became obvious was the new dash was going to have to be 1" taller than the 009 dash (the 1" is added to the bottom of the dash). That should be easy enough. Also, 3/8" will need to be added to each end to make sure everything is adequately covered.
So, here's the deal, I have a total of 12 gauges. I have the usual collection plus fuel pressure, water pressure, oil temp, all in Monster (2-5/8") size, then in 2" size are an hour meter and depth gauge. Also, the Gaffrig Monster 4-3/4" liquid filled speedo that I think is still being built by Livorsi. At the bottom in the middle under the tach/speedo is the ignition, safety lanyard, and two auxiliary power outlets.
The black panel to the left of the steering is the Hynautic Power Plane indicator/switch. Yes, it does both and it's as cool as all get out. I don't care what the "NO INDICATOR" guys say....this is MY boat. There is a new panel in the works also.
The steering has to move to the right and lower to match the existing dash hole. Then to the right of the steering are six water proof Carling switches along w/their circuit breakers and I've shown them in a couple of configurations.
Kind of a seperate subject, but still pertinant, I'm planning on utilizing the throttle mounted trim switch and use one of the Carling switches for trailering. I could locate the trailer switch seperately, like near the throttle, or to the far right side of the dash.
So, here's some pictures and shows the results of my efforts so far.
What do y'all think?

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60392&stc=1&d=1292694402

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60393&stc=1&d=1292694402

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60394&stc=1&d=1292694402

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60395&stc=1&d=1292694402

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60396&stc=1&d=1292694402

Grinder
12-18-2010, 01:12 PM
Wont the trim tab indicator cables cause a problem left of helm?

zelatore
12-18-2010, 01:14 PM
George,

With the placement of the wheel/hynautic indicators and the standard driving position of left hand on the wheel and right on the throttle, I think you'll find you won't be able to see the indicators very well.

The switches to the right of the wheel will be blocked somewhat as well, but they aren't the sort of thing you'll want to read at a glance so much so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

gcarter
12-18-2010, 01:15 PM
Wont the trim tab indicator cables cause a problem left of helm?

They're going to show. They did originally on the right of the helm. They can no longer go to the right because of the Eaton Char-Lynn hydraulic helm hoses will interfere with the indicator bracket behind the dash.
It's just the lessor of two evils.

zelatore
12-18-2010, 01:20 PM
I'd also seriously consider angled bezels for the smaller gauges. I did something similar with the layout of my dash and found the small gauges hard to read that far off to my left.

gcarter
12-18-2010, 01:38 PM
I'd also seriously consider angled bezels for the smaller gauges. I did something similar with the layout of my dash and found the small gauges hard to read that far off to my left.

I would agree w/you if the water pressure and fuel pressure were important to monitor all the time, but I don't think they'll be changing all that much.
I had a similar switch location on the Minx and the reality is you're not switching things on and off very often. If the switches go to the bottom center, there isn't room for the breakers to be located adjacent to the switches.
Everything is a trade off.
I want all the extra gauges, first to be utilized, and second for a little bling (there, I admit it).

axelkloehn
12-18-2010, 04:52 PM
George, the position of the hour meter and the depth gauge is a no-go for me. It really does not match the overall layout of the gauges. May be this looks better (needs some fine-tuning of course):

Mr X
12-18-2010, 08:06 PM
I would completely remove the power plane panel from the dash all together.
It looks as if it is being showcased on the dash.
Move it to the gunwale side by the throttle, if you must have it.

gcarter
12-18-2010, 08:37 PM
I would completely remove the power plane panel from the dash all together.
It looks as if it is being showcased on the dash.
Move it to the gunwale side by the throttle, if you must have it.

Ted, maybe you're on to something.
I really don't need a panel. I can have the handle/indicator slots cut into the carbon panel itself. It would be less obvious.

Mr X
12-18-2010, 10:22 PM
Sounds like the best idea so far. Still there, but not standing out.

roadtrip se
12-19-2010, 01:02 PM
the indicators were on the gunwale. I thought it was a little strange at first, but in use, it worked pretty well. Moving the indicators over to the right should make rigging easier and you can then move all of your gauges over a little closer to the driver position for easier visibility. I have sat in boats with gauges stretched across the dash and you just can't see them that well.

So, is it going to be ready for next spring? We could always consider making the TR the theme boat for the AOTH, but that means the boat has to be there! It would be great to have it debut at Lake Cumberland. Then of course there is, Parnell's GT... Get it done George.

gcarter
12-19-2010, 02:19 PM
the indicators were on the gunwale. I thought it was a little strange at first, but in use, it worked pretty well. Moving the indicators over to the right should make rigging easier and you can then move all of your gauges over a little closer to the driver position for easier visibility. I have sat in boats with gauges stretched across the dash and you just can't see them that well.

So, is it going to be ready for next spring? We could always consider making the TR the theme boat for the AOTH, but that means the boat has to be there! It would be great to have it debut at Lake Cumberland. Then of course there is, Parnell's GT... Get it done George.

Todd, the Char-Lynn helm's hoses prohibit moving the indicator/switch to the right of the helm. I've thought long and hard (for years now) about moving it to the gunnel..........so far, I can't make that commitment.
At this point, I'm planning on prioritizing the gauges.
Obviously oil pressure is primary, then coolant temp, followed by fuel quantity, and volt meter.
I think I should be able to see these w/o any issues.
Oil temp is pretty important if you're running hard, and drive trim is also.
At this point, I'm no further to the left than a stock panel, so if I put water pressure and fuel pressure to the extreme left, I should be fine as neither of them are used hardly at all.
Just to reiterate, all but the last two will be in their stock locations.

joseph m. hahnl
12-19-2010, 05:32 PM
George: Did you forget the stereo:bonk:? Or do you plan on tucking that a way some where else:cool!:?

CHACHI
12-19-2010, 06:11 PM
George, when I re-did my dash, no where near as large as yours, I only added oil temp and water pressure gauges, to the assortment that were stock in '99, but I did change them to "monster" size. Like you, I did add a trim tab gauge.

I have an hour gauge factory mounted on the bulkhead in front of the engine. I am now thinking of moving the location of my depth gauge (which is sitting in a drawer in the boathouse) to the right gunwale. It was mounted in the dash to the right of the helm along with my tab switches

At times I wish I had angled bezels, but I have located the "important" gauges closer to me.

My 12 volt power port was relocated to the lower edge of the dash on the backside. Out of site, but easily accesible.

My switches were also moved to the right side of the helm along with the ignition switch and circut breaker. My trim gauge and tab gauge make up the rest of the panel on the right side.

I relocated my tab switches to the top of the starbord gunwale, just forward of the throttle.This was the best location change of the whole dash re-do. The tab switch is only a 4-5 inch move from the handle of throttle, not 8-10 inches in stock form.

I don't know why I never considered a one piece dash panel like the 009 dash, but as a point for my defense, the 009 dash wasn't built yet.

Just remember, group like functions together.

Esthetically, l like the switches arranged verticaly.

Ken

gcarter
12-19-2010, 07:14 PM
George: Did you forget the stereo:bonk:? Or do you plan on tucking that a way some where else:cool!:?

LOL!
Funny thing is, Laine is a trained musician, degrees and decades of experience, but she almost hates listening to music.
Whoever buys it can do as they want.

yeller
12-19-2010, 11:40 PM
George, I like the overall layout, but I would relocate the hour meter and depth gauge. Like axelkloehn said, it doesn't seem to fit the layout.

Have you thought about moving the switches to the gunwale? That's where I put mine and I like the location. That would free up room for the hour meter and depth gauge to the right of the steering wheel. Also, how about putting the aux power plugs on the gunwale as well? One on port and one on starboard.

roadtrip se
12-20-2010, 09:18 AM
So, is it going to be ready for next spring? We could always consider making the TR the theme boat for the AOTH, but that means the boat has to be there! It would be great to have it debut at Lake Cumberland. Then of course there is, Parnell's GT... Get it done George.

George, looks like you are getting some good feedback here, which should help you and others, that could be comtemplating a dash re-do, too. Good luck.

Now, about AOTH?

gcarter
12-20-2010, 09:26 AM
George, looks like you are getting some good feedback here, which should help you and others, that could be comtemplating a dash re-do, too. Good luck.

Now, about AOTH?

Todd;
AOTH is in the plans.
That gives me about five months, right?

RickSE
12-20-2010, 09:48 AM
George,

This may not work since your trim indicator panel looks larger then mine but I have my panel mounted to the right of the steering wheel, at the beginning of the curve to the gunnel. This worked well since the indicator cables come out the bottom of the panel and then drop through a hole in the lower foot panel under the dash (near the speaker).

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22778&d=1154734237

gcarter
12-27-2010, 01:39 PM
So what do you guys think of this?
Keep in mind the bottom edge will be 1" lower than stock.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60535&stc=1&d=1293475094

Tidbart
12-27-2010, 02:58 PM
Just my opinion, I would leave out the indicator altogether. I just don't see the need in a 22' boat. I haven't had them in my 18 nor in my 22 and have always felt the location of the tabs. Do you think they are necessary?

B

gcarter
12-27-2010, 04:27 PM
Just my opinion, I would leave out the indicator altogether. I just don't see the need in a 22' boat. I haven't had them in my 18 nor in my 22 and have always felt the location of the tabs. Do you think they are necessary?

B

Bob, this is some original hardware that came w/the Hynautic Power Planes. The two hockey sticks that protrude from the two slots not only act as indicators, but have micro switches attached to them and operate the tabs. They are truly unique and I'd like to keep them as I've already had parts chromed.
What else I'd like an opinion about is the switch placement, sort of parallel to the panel bottom, and the other two small gauges above them.

Rumblefish
12-27-2010, 05:17 PM
Looks good..I have dash envy...

Not sure I would allow the switch panel to slope (lean) with the dash curve..

The gauges sloping make sense but I would keep the switch panel on the same plane as the lower gauges.

awsome layout!!

CHACHI
12-27-2010, 07:12 PM
George, I would move the two gauges to the right more and level the switches.

My 2 cents.

Ken

gcarter
12-27-2010, 08:38 PM
I can't go very far to the right because it gets into the big radius into the corner.
What you see is about the space I have.

Tidbart
12-28-2010, 07:28 AM
Bob, this is some original hardware that came w/the Hynautic Power Planes. The two hockey sticks that protrude from the two slots not only act as indicators, but have micro switches attached to them and operate the tabs. They are truly unique and I'd like to keep them as I've already had parts chromed.
What else I'd like an opinion about is the switch placement, sort of parallel to the panel bottom, and the other two small gauges above them.

Sorry, misunderstood their function. I take it, you slide the pucks to adjust. They aren't just indicators but function as my rocker switches do.

Back to the placement, I would keep the indicator, if you will, to the right of the wheel. This way, you would use your right hand to make the adjustments and not have to switch hands. If it is possible, I would put my switches vertical and to the right of the indicator. I would keep all the gauges to the left.

B

Tidbart
12-28-2010, 07:41 AM
What I had in mind..

gcarter
12-28-2010, 07:53 AM
I love the way you think and a very nice graphic!
The problem is, to the right are the four helm steering hoses...not a lot of room between them and the dash. There's room for switches and these two small gauges, but nothing deeper than about 2-1/2" from the face of the dash. Then, moving to the right, the surface starts a large radius which gets sharper, i.e., not flat.

gcarter
12-28-2010, 10:31 AM
Here's a picture of the tab switch/indicator bracket.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60541&stc=1&d=1293550090

As you can see, it's pretty deep and it would interfere w/the hydraulic helm hoses if it were mounted to the right of the helm if the helm is oriented in a normal fashion. Here's an example;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60542&stc=1&d=1293550090

So, I may have come up w/a solution. I've not seen it done before, so I'm open to observations.
The idea is to orient the helm so thast the ports come out the bottom of the helm instead of the STBD side. Then a combination of 90* and 45* AN port fittings can be used to route the hoses from underneath the helm to the STBD side of the cockpit.
Like so;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60543&stc=1&d=1293550090

I think this will give me clearance to mount the tab indicator to the right of the helm AND clear the hydraulic hoses.

zelatore
12-28-2010, 10:43 AM
I had to deal with the same problem with my helm and indicators. I was able to get the indicators to the right of the helm by putting them on the curved part of the dash mold. I made a filler out of a thick piece of starboard. It was a little fiddly getting everything to line up, but the plus is the indicator cables are pretty well hidden instead of sticking out under the dash. It also kept the indicators out from behind the wheel so they were easier to see. For yours, that would be doubly important since you have to use them to make the adjustments as well.

And I agree with the idea of putting the switches on the starboard side in front of the throttle. Easy to reach, and it frees up dash space and keeps it from looking cluttered.

zelatore
12-28-2010, 10:47 AM
So, I may have come up w/a solution. I've not seen it done before, so I'm open to observations.
The idea is to orient the helm so thast the ports come out the bottom of the helm instead of the STBD side. Then a combination of 90* and 45* AN port fittings can be used to route the hoses from underneath the helm to the STBD side of the cockpit.
Like so;


I think this will give me clearance to mount the tab indicator to the right of the helm AND clear the hydraulic hoses.


The only thing I can think of here would be you can only mount it at 45 or 90 degrees to keep the bolt patern looking good. Does that work for your plan?

gcarter
12-28-2010, 10:58 AM
Using 90* and 45* will allow the hoses to clear each other.
Remember the large boss w/the ports will be facing down instead of to the STBD side. This gives me the space immediately to the right of the helm free of hoses.

DonziJon
12-28-2010, 01:46 PM
How do you bleed the air out of the steering system? Is the system driven by a seperate electric or engine driven pump located somewhere else....other than AT the helm? Just wondering. DJ

Greg Guimond
12-28-2010, 02:42 PM
I had to deal with the same problem with my helm and indicators. I was able to get the indicators to the right of the helm by putting them on the curved part of the dash mold. I made a filler out of a thick piece of starboard.

George, I would take a closer look at the radius for the indicator panel and agree with Zelatore, two small fillers would be no problem. If you have the space to starboard you might even be able to mount the panel on the flat of the tub, no?

VetteLT193
12-28-2010, 03:25 PM
On RickSE's picture you'll see his tab buttons are up on top, next to the windshield and in a position just above where your hand will be while throttling at speed. Will it fit up there?

Seems like that would be the ultimate spot. easy to see, get to, and out of the way. I can't quite imagine what left hand tab and right hand throttle would feel like.

Also... If I had redone my Minx dash again, I'd have put the ignition key to the right of the steering wheel. That would have allowed me to start the boat while standing on the trailer fender. A very handy thing when flushing the boat on the trailer and really not a problem while sitting in the boat. Also I prefer the kill switch to the right so it is more hidden. I hate the way they look while dangling there at the dock. I also hate when the cord is hanging there and gets caught on something going under the deck into the storage bin.

I think I'd put the aux. power port inside of the glove box on the left. It would be way more handy if you could plug in and store a cell phone in the box. plus you would still have access to it for a spot light if need be.

Switches I like more in the middle... reason being I tend to mess with them more while not driving... either fooling around in the boat and I need to turn on this or that, etc. so they seem to work better with central access.

I'm torn on big gauges centered Vs. away. For function, the speedo farthest away makes the most sense as it's really the most meaningless gauge and easy to read far away. Temps, oil pressure I like close. Depth central so a passenger can help read it in hairy driving situations. For looks... well, centered and balanced.

Anyway... that's more food for thought.

gcarter
12-28-2010, 05:08 PM
How do you bleed the air out of the steering system? Is the system driven by a seperate electric or engine driven pump located somewhere else....other than AT the helm? Just wondering. DJ

Yes, there's a GM type engine mounted pump just like the one on your Minx.
That's where the similarities end. This uses a Char-Lynn industrial helm like you would find on a fork lift, or industrial tractor. There's two supply line for the left and right external cylinders, a supply to the helm from the pump and a return to a remote reservoir via a cooler. Also, in the stern at around where the lines go to the cylinders, is a relief valve, in this case, set at 950#. The relief line goes to a seperate port in the reservoir.
The bleeding is done at the external cylinders. You make the mess outside the boat.

Greg Guimond
12-28-2010, 06:54 PM
Now you have me noodling this indicator thing. Totally understand why you want/need to re-use the Hynautic. Any chance you can shoot a quick pick with the indicator plate taped into a)the radius location, and b)the flat ahead of the throttle. Scale is tough to determine with the shots below, but now in addition to the possible change of location perhaps a little LED backlighting behind the plate for contrast at night.

zelatore
12-28-2010, 06:56 PM
The bleeding is done at the external cylinders. You make the mess outside the boat.

And how! Don't have any Sierra club types around when it comes time to bleed those suckers!

gcarter
12-28-2010, 09:29 PM
Now you have me noodling this indicator thing. Totally understand why you want/need to re-use the Hynautic. Any chance you can shoot a quick pick with the indicator plate taped into a)the radius location, and b)the flat ahead of the throttle. Scale is tough to determine with the shots below, but now in addition to the possible change of location perhaps a little LED backlighting behind the plate for contrast at night.

OK, I dug up some of the original pictures. At this point, I'd forgotton how rough the boat was. Most of the modifications had been done to it in '92 or so. It hadn't been treated very well.
Here's a couple of pictures taken by former owners, one of the panel. The other of the Hynautic panel. At this point, the boat had a Hynautic helm, in those days, there weren't a lot of choices. The Hynautic helm was deeper than the Char-Lynn that's going in it and had three hoses connected to 90* ells on the back of the helm so hose clearance wasn't an issue. Even so, they decided to mount the indicator/switch panel pretty far to the right and it didn't fit the surface at all. They had built up some body putty behind it and it looked like crap. Since it was to be, pretty much, universally mounted, it is/was pretty rigid in its panel and the bracket behind it. It had to have a flat surface.
Now, w/the new panel and being able to integrate the indicator/switch into it, all I have to do is mount the bracket to back side of it and it won't demand a perfectly flat surface.
Since I kept the Hynautic Power Planes on the boat, I think it's important to keep it reasonably period correct and also use the indicator/switch. These systems were pretty expensive. Also, I've already re-chromed the hockey sticks.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60576&stc=1&d=1293589340

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=60577&stc=1&d=1293589340

Greg Guimond
12-28-2010, 10:27 PM
That radius is milder then I had thought, and the panel is not as large as I expected. If the boat would have been rigged from the factory with the indicator panel to starboard of the wheel as shown, I'd place the panel in the starboard radius and actually bump out the bottom a bit so that the panel would have a slight slant. With that small amount of created space that the fab would give you, I'd throw a tiny led backlight in there to highlight the chrome hockey sticks even more as I like those little buggers! That would make reading the indicator super easy on the eyes at speed and open more space next to the wheel for a row of switches and the key. Then on the left you have a cleaner palate for all gauges. Just my .04

CHACHI
12-29-2010, 07:39 AM
George, I like your thoughts of rotating the helm 90 degrees to "open up" the space for the relocation of the panel.

With solutions like that I can understand why you don't sleep much.

Ken

CHACHI
12-29-2010, 07:40 AM
George, I forgot to ask, with the panel located on the right, will the cables still be visible or can they now be hidden?

Ken

gcarter
12-29-2010, 10:23 AM
George, I forgot to ask, with the panel located on the right, will the cables still be visible or can they now be hidden?

Ken

The cables will show no matter how I do it.
It's a fact of life. I'll just minimise it.

Tidbart
12-29-2010, 11:01 AM
George,

Ever thought of a separate gauge cluster, mounted above on the dash, with maybe 3 or 4 gauges? This would open up a lot of area for you, I would think.

VetteLT193
12-29-2010, 11:10 AM
George,

Ever thought of a separate gauge cluster, mounted above on the dash, with maybe 3 or 4 gauges? This would open up a lot of area for you, I would think.

Yeah... hotShot has the whole dash 'topper' for more gauges.

I liked... shoot, Zimm's? 22 that had the 3 gauge pods on top of the dash. I think they are livorsi pods on that boat.

yeller
12-29-2010, 01:04 PM
I agree with the others about 'leveling' the switches. When they're mounted parallel to the bottom of the dash they end up looking crooked. I'd stack the two gauges one above the other and then stack the switches vertically beside them.

Here's pics (post 93) of where I mounted my switches on the gunwale. I personally prefer no dash switches.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56726&page=7

VetteLT193
12-30-2010, 09:24 AM
Another option I considered, but didn't man up to it, is hiding the switches like the older Ocean Yachts.

The switches, starter buttons, etc are all mounted upside down underneath the helm. There is a plaque on the dash that has the labels. It takes a bit of getting used to but after that it becomes second nature. Totally cleans up the dash and the switches last forever because the water drains off of them.

Greg Guimond
01-10-2011, 07:01 AM
Switches in the radius ............

gcarter
01-10-2011, 11:04 AM
Switches in the radius ............

I like your wheel!
Mine's not that pretty.

gcarter
02-03-2011, 10:29 AM
OK, here's the final shape of things.....
Keep in mind that the bottom edge is 1" lower than the drawing illustrates.
I have made a sketch, and I'm ready to ship it off.
To clarify a bit, to the right of the wheel is the two vertical slots for the Hynautic Power Plane indicator/switches. Then further right at the top is two Carling switches, one for exhaust, and one for the trailer position on the drive.
Below the switches are two 2" gauges, one is a depth sounder, the other is an hour meter.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61334&stc=1&d=1296746779

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61335&stc=1&d=1296746779

axelkloehn
02-04-2011, 02:35 AM
George, did you consider putting the hour meter in the engine room? Gives a nice impression of a classic engine room when you do a nice, prominent install there.
Where it is now might get a bit narrow with the other gauge and the corner of the dash.
The rest looks clean and nice!

gcarter
02-04-2011, 08:16 AM
George, did you consider putting the hour meter in the engine room? Gives a nice impression of a classic engine room when you do a nice, prominent install there.
Where it is now might get a bit narrow with the other gauge and the corner of the dash.
The rest looks clean and nice!

Yes I did, in fact, I even considered a small auxiliary panel in the engine room w/several small mechanical gauges.....hour, coolant temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure. But I'm going for a "clean" appearance for the engine, w/nothing showing, particularly on the front, except the minimum number of hoses. That's why everything but the engine itself is on the rear seat back. When someone raises the hatch, nothing but the engine will be seen.
However, the two gauges, "hour" and "depth", are centered under the two Carling switches above which are "exhaust", and "trailer" for the drive, so I think it pretty well balances out.
There's a large blank space in front of the front pasanger so I'm planning on a Donzi logo being screened there.