View Full Version : Do Drowning Victims.....
Carl C
12-02-2010, 08:08 AM
float in salt water? An unusual question, I know. There was a bad accident between two large cats in Florida that claimed some lives. There is some question whether "safety equipment" was in use. All bodies were immediately recovered. Very sad. It's being discussed on OSO. Not much discussion, mostly pages of condolences.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/243256-2-dead-biscayne-bay-accident.html
I don't dare ask this question there.
zelatore
12-02-2010, 10:51 AM
I can tell you from personal experience that yes, drowning victems will float in salt water. I don't know if they float right away though, it may take some time for the body to rise to the surface.
Carl C
12-02-2010, 11:38 AM
I can tell you from personal experience that yes, drowning victems will float in salt water. I don't know if they float right away though, it may take some time for the body to rise to the surface.
What I meant is if the bodies stay on the surface the whole time. A body will rise to the surface in fresh water too unless the water is very deep and cold at the bottom. I know it's a morbid topic but I'd really like to know.
Ghost
12-02-2010, 12:41 PM
I don't know for certain, but I believe the answer is "it depends--sometimes yes, sometimes no." I don't believe there is a consistent yes or no.
Tidbart
12-02-2010, 01:42 PM
The chubby ones do.
Tidbart
12-02-2010, 02:03 PM
Maybe I should elaborate so as not to seem like a smart azz.
Someone with a very low body fat content and no air left in their lungs might very well sink. Most people don't fit into this category so they will float. Fat floats.
In the case of an accidental collision, someone could still be said to drown and have other factors involved such as unconsciousness or other trauma, in which they may still have air left in their lungs which will help them float.
There are other factors also, such as what they are wearing or not wearing, water temp, etc.
B
gcarter
12-02-2010, 02:08 PM
Back in the early '70's when I took my diving course (I think they were a lot more rigorous then) we had to float w/o flotation in a pool for 5 minutes w/o moving.
It's pretty hard to do because you're so tense.
I can tell you it's a lot easier in salt water.
justleft
12-02-2010, 02:38 PM
It has been allot of yrs but I remember;
If victim goes in head first or on their stomach the lungs stay full of air and the body floats.
If the victim is feet first or on their back they tend to sink as the air escapes from the lungs.
The body will usually float back up when the bacteria in the gut creates enough gas. Doesn't happen if the water is real cold.
I have no idea about fresh vs salt.
BUIZILLA
12-02-2010, 02:41 PM
kinda morbid..
joseph m. hahnl
12-02-2010, 08:25 PM
float in salt water? An unusual question, I know. There was a bad accident between two large cats in Florida that claimed some lives. There is some question whether "safety equipment" was in use. All bodies were immediately recovered. Very sad. It's being discussed on OSO. Not much discussion, mostly pages of condolences.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/243256-2-dead-biscayne-bay-accident.html
I don't dare ask this question there.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070106133004AA353SO
mrfixxall
12-02-2010, 09:06 PM
Seriously!!! Did you pull a soprano's ???
Carl C
12-02-2010, 09:24 PM
No Sopranos! Not that it would be wise, but if people float in salt water then it would make it safer to go without a pfd in salt water. In fresh water you will sink, therefore if you are knocked unconscious on ejection then that's all she wrote! Just wondering....
Morbid, yes....
Phil S
12-02-2010, 10:11 PM
No offense Carl, and hopefully, "none taken", but at the speeds your're running, I'd stick with a pfd jacket of excellent quality ! Fresh or Salt water........
......just my humble opinion...(which actually should NOT be taken as fact, by the way).
Hopefully, heading into winter "upgrades" to sleeping horses...Carl's post has re-instilled the thoughts and necessity of the safety-factors we all should continue to heed. Morbid...yes...but it also makes you think....turn it into safety.....
WKR,
Phil S.
gcarter
12-03-2010, 05:49 AM
Back to my post above, women float more easily than men do, along the lines of what Bob said...a little more fat and its distribution.
So Karl, maybe your gender is wrong for what you're trying to do! :wink:
Greg Guimond
12-03-2010, 06:24 AM
Are you guys crazy? Salt, fresh, male, female......run with the pfd, period over 50mph! As a guy who got pulled from the water unconscious a month ago with all left ribs and shoulder broken, I can tell you I'd be on the other side had I not. Just my .02
Carl C
12-03-2010, 08:36 AM
You guys, I wear a Lifeline & tether and carry all emergency gear such as GPS & VHF. I'll be blunt about my question: In my first post I referenced a thread about a fatal boating accident off Miami. Two people were killed and their bodies immediately recovered. Others were critically injured :( . It was suggested that maybe no safety gear was in use. If no safety gear was in use then the persons who died should have sunk, requiring a lengthy search for the bodies. Unless, people float in salt water. A simple question. Anyone who swims in the ocean should know the answer. Don't look for any hidden meaning in my question. I am just wondering if the increased buoyancy of salt water is enough to keep an average person from sinking. I boat in fresh water and I use safety gear! :)
Back in the early '70's when I took my diving course (I think they were a lot more rigorous then) we had to float w/o flotation in a pool for 5 minutes w/o moving.
It's pretty hard to do because you're so tense.
I can tell you it's a lot easier in salt water.
It's definetly easier in salt water. Me and a buddy of mine were wade fishing off Ft Desoto when we ran into my physics teacher out there. He started explaining how he could float better in salt water. :) Mr. Levine was a trip. He looked like a mad scientist. First day in class, he had a generator and held both leads to it making his hair stand up! He's the one who told me I'd make someone a great engineer one day. Even he could be wrong. :(
kinda morbid..
That was exactly my first thought.
No Sopranos! Not that it would be wise, but if people float in salt water then it would make it safer to go without a pfd in salt water. In fresh water you will sink, therefore if you are knocked unconscious on ejection then that's all she wrote! Just wondering....
Morbid, yes....
If float face down, you will still drown. Anytime I was on a plane passegers were required to wear life jackets. It was non negotiable with me. If they didn't want to wear one, I told them they always had the option of staying on the dock.
When I take any boat out, my number one priority is to get everyone back to the dock alive. They were putting their lives into my hands, and I took that serious. It meant more than going fast or catching fish or whatever I was on the water for.
Carl C
12-03-2010, 09:32 AM
If float face down, you will still drown. Anytime I was on a plane passegers were required to wear life jackets. It was non negotiable with me. If they didn't want to wear one, I told them they always had the option of staying on the dock.
When I take any boat out, my number one priority is to get everyone back to the dock alive. They were putting their lives into my hands, and I took that serious. It meant more than going fast or catching fish or whatever I was on the water for.
I also require my guests to vest up. I also will not put up with any goofing around. Several times I have stopped the boat and told passengers that if they are not going to use the grab handles and pay attention then we will not be going fast. Very rarely if the water is calm I will go without a vest.
So I think it's safe to assume that the victims in said accident were indeed wearing pfds.
blackboat
12-03-2010, 12:31 PM
I never race anyone or travel at speeds above 80 with any passengers onboard . I figure if a mishap occurs, I will be the only one to suffer the consequences:nilly:
Carl C
12-03-2010, 12:57 PM
I should have just googled it. What can I say, it's the off season! Apparently bodies float in the Dead Sea which is extremely salty and bodies float more easily in the ocean but leaner bodies will still sink. Kind of goes with some of the answers here but, no, I did not dispose of a body in the water and, no, I'm not looking for excuses to not wear a PFD on the ocean!! :eek::boggled::cool!:
hardcrab
12-03-2010, 01:48 PM
Salinity is definatly a factor. Swiming in salt or even brackish water takes a lot less effort than fresh water.
You'll actually work to stay afloat in fresh water .
(but you all knew that)
Carl C
12-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Salinity is definatly a factor. Swiming in salt or even brackish water takes a lot less effort than fresh water.
You'll actually work to stay afloat in fresh water .
(but you all knew that)
Haven't swam in salt water. There are things that will eat and/or kill you in there:eek::nilly:.
Actually I did once in Florida when I was a kid. So long ago I don't remember what it was like.
gcarter
12-03-2010, 03:25 PM
Years ago I read a story about a guy that lost his small blow boat in the Caribean at night. He ended up in the water for about three days w/o any floatation. He used the trick of removing his jeans, tying knots in the ends of the legs, flipping them over his head to fill them, and sitting on them.
You have to re-fill the pants w/air about every 20-30 minutes so it's hard to sleep. Even a noodle under your arms will keep you comfortably afloat and your head up in salt water. But I think the question is about accidents. I know Greg and one other nameless person have had mishaps where they were thrown from their boats and lost their senses. They were both very fortunate to still be here.
Be prepared.
hardcrab
12-03-2010, 04:43 PM
Haven't swam in salt water. There are things that will eat and/or kill you in there:eek::nilly:.
:lobster::shark::orcawhale::eek::anchor::dolphin:: anchor:
Carl C
12-03-2010, 04:46 PM
:lobster::shark::orcawhale::eek::anchor::dolphin:: anchor:
I'll never forget the stingray that took Steve Irwin from us :(.
hardcrab
12-03-2010, 05:02 PM
I'll never forget the stingray that took Steve Irwin from us :(.
you know, that happens more than you might think
Very rarely if the water is calm I will go without a vest.
.
You can drown in calm water just as easy. I had a friend drown on Lake Tarpon.
I should have just googled it. What can I say, it's the off season! Apparently bodies float in the Dead Sea which is extremely salty and bodies float more easily in the ocean but leaner bodies will still sink. Kind of goes with some of the answers here but, no, I did not dispose of a body in the water and, no, I'm not looking for excuses to not wear a PFD on the ocean!! :eek::boggled::cool!:
The oceans have different salinities. The Gulf of Mexico is saltier than the Atlantic. The Great Salt Lake is saltier than both.
Haven't swam in salt water. There are things that will eat and/or kill you in there:eek::nilly:.
Actually I did once in Florida when I was a kid. So long ago I don't remember what it was like.
Shoot, I always swim in saltwater. I've gone for a swim to cool off 40 miles offshore in my fishboat. The water is so much bluer out there. You can see fish when you bring them at about 60 feet.
I'll never forget the stingray that took Steve Irwin from us :(.
When I was a kid in Panama City, a guy died exactly like Irwin did.
Carl C
12-03-2010, 05:43 PM
Shoot, I always swim in saltwater. I've gone for a swim to cool off 40 miles offshore in my fishboat. The water is so much bluer out there. You can see fish when you bring them at about 60 feet.
I would go for it too. Don't you need to shower off the salt afterward though?
DonziJon
12-03-2010, 08:07 PM
Just thought I would mention this. A STEEL Ship will float higher in the water.. in SALT Water than in Fresh water. Some larger NAVY ships have to calculate this difference when transiting the Panama Canal because the inland part of the canal is fresh water....don't want to scrape bottom... :nilly: DJ
gcarter
12-03-2010, 08:56 PM
Just thought I would mention this. A STEEL Ship will float higher in the water.. in SALT Water than in Fresh water. Some larger NAVY ships have to calculate this difference when transiting the Panama Canal because the inland part of the canal is fresh water....don't want to scrape bottom... :nilly: DJ
That's what Plimsol lines are for.....it's already calculated
I would go for it too. Don't you need to shower off the salt afterward though?
Hell no. Showers are for women.
hardcrab
12-04-2010, 12:24 AM
Hell no. Showers are for women.
maybe dem' uptown high class fancy broads I been hearin' about .........
maybe dem' uptown high class fancy broads I been hearin' about .........
I've found it advantagous to avoid such women.
joseph m. hahnl
12-09-2010, 05:01 PM
I should have just googled it. What can I say, it's the off season! Apparently bodies float in the Dead Sea which is extremely salty and bodies float more easily in the ocean but leaner bodies will still sink. Kind of goes with some of the answers here but, no, I did not dispose of a body in the water and, no, I'm not looking for excuses to not wear a PFD on the ocean!! :eek::boggled::cool!:
Or you could have read the link I posted for you:bonk:
Think about this:shocking:
* Lungs. Lungs are like a sponge. When someone drowns, the air sacs in the lungs fill with water. Since a body without air in the lungs is denser than water, it sinks. A person who is killed on the surface and then put in the water tends to float, since the lungs are still full of air (although see below). That's how pathologists can tell whether a person was drowned or was dead before hitting the water.
Pobably the reason they were recovered was probably was the proximity of other boats to the wreck.
DonziJon
12-09-2010, 07:17 PM
I'm with you Joe. Too many people "Overthink" this stuff...Even I do this from time to time. :bonk: John
smokediver
12-09-2010, 08:34 PM
it depends on the person . Some people will have a spasm in their larynx when water begins to enter the airway . these people will float . salt or fresh , fat or skinny . obviously over a period of time the throat will relax and the person will sink . fat or skinny salt or fresh water . if a person is knocked out on impact , there is still a possibility of a laryngo-spasm but not normally .
Carl C
12-09-2010, 09:07 PM
Oh boy, I've done it again..........:pimp::pimp:
Jraysray
12-10-2010, 12:09 AM
it depends on the person . Some people will have a spasm in their larynx when water begins to enter the airway . these people will float . salt or fresh , fat or skinny . obviously over a period of time the throat will relax and the person will sink . fat or skinny salt or fresh water . if a person is knocked out on impact , there is still a possibility of a laryngo-spasm but not normally .
Done... Thanks Smoke.
Some times google works better Carl.
I'm with you Joe. Too many people "Overthink" this stuff...Even I do this from time to time. :bonk: John
People are looking for zebras when they should be looking for horses.
:bonk::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Oh boy, I've done it again..........:pimp::pimp:
Carl C
12-10-2010, 09:07 AM
Here's to everyone staying on the top side of the water :beer:
hardcrab
12-10-2010, 12:14 PM
Here's to everyone staying on the top side of the water :beer:
:blub:
Carl C
12-10-2010, 01:14 PM
:blub: Nooooooo....:boat:
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