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View Full Version : Should I drain block and Manifolds, or ?



dellsboater
11-23-2010, 10:53 PM
OK guys, I have owned a checkmate with a Merc 4.3 Alpha 1, I have always drained all the water from the block, and manifolds and never had a problem, yes did lower unit service, fog, but just drained the block and manifolds. I keep it in an unheated garage Southern Wisconsin gets to 20-30 below maybe 7-15 days in the winter...

Bought a used Liberator, has GM? 350 Cobra (did not know GM made a cobra engine, but seller swears is) with OMC outdrive. Seller had bought for 6 months, bought from neighbor. He and a mechanic friend winterized it I was told.

I took it home, and opened the starboard manifold, was plugged with an inch of sand, broke through it, and light pink water came out, smelled like anti freeze, RV type, but looked a little weak. I saved some, and bought an antifreeze tester. Only one ball floated, thats 20 degrees above 0....not good, took the sample, put it in my freezer, in three hours was slush, after overnight was semi solid ice...emailed seller, said his friend used 50/50 rv antifreeze in a garbage can, sucked it up till thermostat opened and antifreeze coming out of exhaust about 5-10 minutes, then fogged and shut off.

I took sample from block, same results....should I just drain the block and manifolds and be done? Or should I pull all hoses and add more RV antifreeze after draining until it come out then close cocks, and manifold drains?

Yes I know to make sure if I drain to push a wire into drains to make sure they are not blocked....

Help me it is 25 degrees right now, winter is coming....:eek:

Phil S
11-23-2010, 11:21 PM
Not sure I/We (mostly "We"), a) understand your question, or b) you haven't already answered it yourself. It sure sounds like you know what to do as far as winterizing. 25 degrees for any length of time will surely freeze water. I'm no expert, but pink-stuff works with varying degrees of opinion of it below a certain level of latitude. 25 degrees in November tells me you need a different color of antifreeze in your block.

With kind regards,

Phil S.

dellsboater
11-23-2010, 11:58 PM
I have never used antifreeze in a boat as stated, however use it in my RV, never froze, but I thinkk I will just drain them tonight and leave them open...guess OMC, 350 treat same as my 4.3 and leave it dry?

CHACHI
11-24-2010, 06:43 AM
You said the RV antifreeze was mixed 50/50.

There's your problem. RV antifreeze is used neat, straight out of the jug.

Drain and refill.

Ken

MOP
11-24-2010, 07:14 AM
It is a catch 22! Iron needs to be kept wet as it corrodes very fast once wet then left to dry, it flakes off and tends to plugs passages in the following seasons especially risers. Important to know regular "Non Tox" RV anti freeze has no rust inhibitors, yes it is way better than leaving the engine dry. Some of use use standard antifreeze in the raw circuit then drain and reclaim it in the spring, I leave it in a covered bucket and recheck it freeze capabilities before the next use. I guess it depends on just how anal you want to be in protecting your investment and keeping your coin in your pocket.

Planetwarmer
11-24-2010, 11:48 AM
It is a catch 22! Iron needs to be kept wet as it corrodes very fast once wet then left to dry, it flakes off and tends to plugs passages in the following seasons especially risers. Important to know regular "Non Tox" RV anti freeze has no rust inhibitors, yes it is way better than leaving the engine dry. Some of use use standard antifreeze in the raw circuit then drain and reclaim it in the spring, I leave it in a covered bucket and recheck it freeze capabilities before the next use. I guess it depends on just how anal you want to be in protecting your investment and keeping your coin in your pocket.

Not that I disagree with you, but lake water doesn't have rust inhibitors either. I guess having rust inhibitors for 6 months out of the year is better than never.

I use RV antifreeze. Jug says its guaranteed down to -50degF when used at full strength.

mrfixxall
11-24-2010, 12:00 PM
Darin it all,block,hoses,manifolds,cooler,,if its a vortech you need to pull the plug in the front of the manifold above the water pump...
allot of people dont know this but when gm went to the vortech style cylinder heads gm eliminate the center exhaust port on the intake side to warm up the center of the intake manifold for driveability when its cool out..in replacement of that port gm now uses water/antifreeze to heat up the lower center of the intake,so it you dont pull that plug or run the engine in a antifreeze bath the center of the intake manifold will freeze and crack and let water into the oil system....same goes for the vortech 4.3's
after you pull that plug lower the front of the boat down so the water can drain out...

dellsboater
11-24-2010, 12:12 PM
This is an 1988 Cobra 350, not vortec, but great advice. I drained it all last night, it was hard to get the rubber plugs off the bottom of the manifolds, found out why, they had not been off in some time...had to punch through 1 inch of sand and gunk to get the water out. Drains in the blocks were better, but a little plugged. With this motor thats all I should have to drain, correct?

I may see if I can work the hoses off the manifolds, and put what straight RV antifreeze or regular auto antifreeze in it?

Or just leave it this way dry...air doesnt freeze...right?:crossfing:

Emailed seller, him and his friend bought a winterize kit online, mixed 50/50 rv .....but did find out previous owner always had the local marina winterize it, so this was the first time he had winterized....just glad I caught it. The antifreeze just seemed to weak....

Also found out their are different testers for rv antifreeze and automotive.....

mrfixxall
11-24-2010, 12:22 PM
This is an 1988 Cobra 350, not vortec, but great advice. I drained it all last night, it was hard to get the rubber plugs off the bottom of the manifolds, found out why, they had not been off in some time...had to punch through 1 inch of sand and gunk to get the water out. Drains in the blocks were better, but a little plugged. With this motor thats all I should have to drain, correct?

I may see if I can work the hoses off the manifolds, and put what straight RV antifreeze or regular auto antifreeze in it?

Or just leave it this way dry...air doesnt freeze...right?:crossfing:

Emailed seller, him and his friend bought a winterize kit online, mixed 50/50 rv .....but did find out previous owner always had the local marina winterize it, so this was the first time he had winterized....just glad I caught it. The antifreeze just seemed to weak....

Also found out their are different testers for rv antifreeze and automotive.....


you will never get all the water out..i always tank with antifreeze if its drained leave everything off and leave the plugs out..a closed system will freeze and brake stuff a open system drained will freeze but will give the water a place to go and not brake stuff because it has room to exand..

when you take the hoses off drain them and leave them off also and put them back on in the spring..

dellsboater
11-24-2010, 12:43 PM
Have to start removing hoses this weekend as they look as if they have never been off, Removed the clamps, but are fused to the nipples...may have to cut them off:garfield:

RedDog
11-24-2010, 01:28 PM
...Bought a used Liberator, has GM? 350 Cobra (did not know GM made a cobra engine, but seller swears is) ...

It is not a GM Cobra - Cobra is the OMC designation for the engine / outdrive package. OMC also made a King Cobra that was beefier than the Cobra.

dellsboater
11-24-2010, 01:34 PM
Ok, it has on the air cleaner King Cobra with a picture of a cobra head and 350......owner said it was a GM motor...:confused:

dsparis
11-24-2010, 01:47 PM
I've got a 18c 350/King Cobra package. On mine you have to drain the water from the outdrive water pump. Don't know if that pertains to regular Cobra. Buy a manual it will answer all your questions as to winterizing.

dellsboater
11-24-2010, 01:55 PM
Need to get a manual....where do I drain that at?

mrfixxall
11-24-2010, 02:24 PM
Need to get a manual....where do I drain that at?


if it hasn't been in the water recently it probably drained its self.

dellsboater
11-24-2010, 02:39 PM
Its been out for about a week only, I did read there are two plugs in the top of the unit that may need to be drained.....

dsparis
11-24-2010, 04:33 PM
Is it a king ?

dellsboater
11-24-2010, 07:40 PM
yes king

ANGUS
11-24-2010, 08:49 PM
The K/C outdrive will not completely drain itself and it will crack if not drained properly. Remove the outdrive "skin" or cover that is held in place by (3) 3/8" (I think) bolts which reveals the water pump housing. As you look at this from the rear there is a drain plug (screw head) at the 4 o'clock position that needs to be removed to fully drain the drive...you will be surprised how much water is trapped in there. Refill with antifreeze at the engine until it poors from this drain...then re-install the screw plug.:wrench:

Tony
11-24-2010, 09:15 PM
I subscribe to the MOP "keep-it-wet" theory. After draining, I infuse straight rv antifreeze, with a 5-gal. bucket sitting on top of the engine, and run the engine so it circulates throughout.

I use 5-gal. buckets, hooked to the exhasut tips, to refill the feed bucket on top of the engine. When the engine reaches temp I know I have antifreeze everywhere. I start with about 8 gallons, and usually only have 1 or 2 left over. I wouldn't have thought the engine held that much...

Also, I mix 2-cycle oil into my fuel filter near the end of this process, kind of like a fuel-injected fogging.


:cool!:

Planetwarmer
11-25-2010, 01:50 AM
It sure is a LOT easier to run antifreeze through the system instead of trying to remove every little plug, tilting the trailer every which way, and still risking your block because you might have forgotten a plug.

Go to West Marine and get the 30 dollar 5 gallon self winterizing kit, hook up the earmuffs, run the engine on the hose until the engine is at normal operating temp so the thermostat is open, flip the valve shutting off the water supply while opening the antifreeze, and allow it to run until you see pure pink blowing out the pipes. When you see pink, spray a fogging oil in the throat until the engine dies. Done in 15 minutes. Now change the oil while its hot. Change the fuel/water separator and drive oil. The whole operation takes 45 minutes or so.

I remove the thermostat to ensure the block is wide open before I do this little operation. I also run the engine at ~1000 RPMs. It seems to do a better job sucking the antifreeze from the muffs.

dellsboater
11-25-2010, 02:18 PM
The owner did the above proceedure...looks like I might have got excited over nothing, the antifreeze that drained out after pulling all the cocks in the block and in the manifolds, did not freeze when I tested it. Only the little I first tested seemed watery....anyway do I still need to drain the wter pump and piviot drains?

Next year the marina will be winterizing.....:boggled:

dellsboater
11-25-2010, 03:39 PM
The K/C outdrive will not completely drain itself and it will crack if not drained properly. Remove the outdrive "skin" or cover that is held in place by (3) 3/8" (I think) bolts which reveals the water pump housing. As you look at this from the rear there is a drain plug (screw head) at the 4 o'clock position that needs to be removed to fully drain the drive...you will be surprised how much water is trapped in there. Refill with antifreeze at the engine until it poors from this drain...then re-install the screw plug.:wrench:


I took off the cover, two bolts on top, one one center bottom at the point, could not see any drain....any pictures?

dellsboater
11-25-2010, 03:42 PM
This is what my drive looks like
http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73663&d=1290648715

CHACHI
11-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Done in 15 minutes. Now change the oil while its hot. Change the fuel/water separator and drive oil. The whole operation takes 45 minutes or so.


Planetwarmer, you must start the engine and run it for 15 minutes AFTER changing the oil. If you don't re-start, the new oil is just sitting in the pan.

New oil MUST be in the lifters, rings, bearings, etc for storage.

If you do not restart you still have old oil in these parts so changing the oil accomplished nothing good.

Ken

MOP
11-26-2010, 05:42 PM
I have to add to ken's statement, put your gasoline products in start the engine and let it warm to thin the oil and get the gas products through the whole system, shut it down and do your oil/filter restart and do your fog job.

If you are going to run anti freeze through you MUST remove the Tstat and drain the block, having winterize a thousand or two over the years I do it different. On raw cooled engines I get everything done oil/filter fogging, then I drain every thing and remove the circulater hose from the Tstat housing I insert a piece of PVC pipe extending a few inches above the engine. Using a funnel I pour in the antifreeze in slowly the block fills first then it goes to the manifold and risers, as soon as it pours out the exhaust everything is fully filled and protected, no need to pull the Tstat simply put the hose back on the housing and forget it until spring. I had about 300 boats at my place and winterized them for near 30 years with not one ever freezing, also you will only us about 3-4 gallons of 50/50 mix to do the job.

Phil

dellsboater
11-26-2010, 05:50 PM
50/50 mix of auto antifreeze? So after draining you put the plugs back in?

MOP
11-27-2010, 08:14 AM
50/50 mix of auto antifreeze? So after draining you put the plugs back in?

Yes put the plugs back in and fill it, you can like many of us reclaim the mix in the spring, I did this with all my raw cooled engines. Simply drain into the bilge with a bucket under the hull drain, use a bucket with a good snap on lid. I have found that it takes about three seasons for the antifreeze to start to degrade, adding a small quantity brings it back up to full potency. Doing it that way cuts the cost to zip over a few seasons and keeps it out of the environment and needless to say gives you proper protection.