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View Full Version : What the heck causes this discoloration?



Selenium
11-06-2010, 11:08 PM
This is factory defects?

Covers by hull warranty?

Would you want to fix it or leave it alone as is?

mrfixxall
11-07-2010, 12:42 AM
This is factory defects?

Covers by hull warranty?

Would you want to fix it or leave it alone as is?


someone blended it,,its been repaired with a differant color gel or paint.

Selenium
11-07-2010, 10:49 AM
Would you buy a boat with these cosmetic flaws?

gcarter
11-07-2010, 10:52 AM
Would you buy a boat with these cosmetic flaws?

In a flash if you like the boat.
It may not even be a warranty issue since there's nothing structural about it.
Is it paint?

Carbo
11-07-2010, 10:55 AM
When a repair is made it can look perfect. A year later you usually can see it as the areas have different ages and will fade at different rates.

Selenium
11-07-2010, 11:10 AM
I have to check with Chuck to see if this boat was gel coat or paint.

The discoloration on the tramsome run on the bottom edge between the 2 trim tabs with varying height of 2-3.5" and sometimes overlapping. The arch on the side is about 5"x6" wide.

The surveyor is stumped as where this came out the factory like this or owner made the repaired.


In a flash if you like the boat.
It may not even be a warranty issue since there's nothing structural about it.
Is it paint?

DonziJon
11-07-2010, 01:43 PM
Very strange. Does the discoloration extend under the boat onto the bottom surface..? If we assume this is an old repair, what would have occurred that would require a repair in the affected areas..?

Is it passable that there were bubbles or voids under the original gel coat that caused the gel coat to "pop off". This is not uncommon where gel coat was sprayed into corners of the mold and was either too thick or too thin during layup. Just wondering. DJ

Selenium
11-07-2010, 02:50 PM
The discoloration doesn't extend under the bottom since the bottom is white. The tramsome discoloration is weird b/c if there were damages...it would have damaged the outdrive and trim tabs pretty bad. You think it's the blending of the paiting from the factory?


Very strange. Does the discoloration extend under the boat onto the bottom surface..? If we assume this is an old repair, what would have occurred that would require a repair in the affected areas..?

Is it passable that there were bubbles or voids under the original gel coat that caused the gel coat to "pop off". This is not uncommon where gel coat was sprayed into corners of the mold and was either too thick or too thin during layup. Just wondering. DJ

gcarter
11-07-2010, 03:49 PM
I know that, for awhile, Donzi was using BASF Diamont 2 stage. If the paint were scratched, or gouged, a repair like this would have been made.
If the paint shop didn't use the same paint, this could happen.
It would be easy to fix this.

mike o
11-07-2010, 05:01 PM
Would you buy a boat with these cosmetic flaws?Id be wondering whats going on :yes:, behind "it"....... IMHO.

DonziJon
11-07-2010, 05:46 PM
I know that, for awhile, Donzi was using BASF Diamont 2 stage. If the paint were scratched, or gouged, a repair like this would have been made.
If the paint shop didn't use the same paint, this could happen.
It would be easy to fix this.

George: Are you sayin that Donzi Painted some boats..? :nilly: DJ

gcarter
11-07-2010, 06:17 PM
George: Are you sayin that Donzi Painted some boats..? :nilly: DJ

Yep.
As I understand it, and Jamie knows better than me, if the hull had a white bottom, the boat was painted. In fact, the whole boat would have white gel, and the contrasting color would be paint.
If the whole boat was one color, except for stripes, the boat was gel.

gcarter
11-07-2010, 06:19 PM
Id be wondering whats going on :yes:, behind "it"....... IMHO.

Of course it would be easy enough to sand off the offending area and inspect it before refinishing.

mike o
11-07-2010, 07:56 PM
Of course it would be easy enough to sand off the offending area and inspect it before refinishing.Yes sir, by the defined edges of the patch. Looks like an off color gel repair, from here.........:kingme:

RickSE
11-08-2010, 11:54 AM
The blue should be paint on this boat. Donzi was painting just about everything by 2006.

I'd say one of two possibilities,

1) A non-match paint repair as described above, probably due to edge peel.

2) An overzellus buff job that has partially burned through the paint allowing the white gel from underneath to show through.

I'd suspect #2 due to the bright white areas in the chine area pictures.

VetteLT193
11-08-2010, 12:18 PM
The blue should be paint on this boat. Donzi was painting just about everything by 2006.
I'd say one of two possibilities,
1) A non-match paint repair as described above, probably due to edge peel.
2) An overzellus buff job that has partially burned through the paint allowing the white gel from underneath to show through.
I'd suspect #2 due to the bright white areas in the chine area pictures.

I agree on #2 as well, was about to post the exact thing.

something tells me that someone used a power buffer and sat too long in those areas. Maybe trying to buff junk off the transom, or just was not paying attention.

Also... Donzi switched to PPG sometime in 2006

Selenium
11-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Hi Rick,

On the circle mark, there's a wave to it, on the edge where the side meets the bottom - I can feel a sharp edge, and I can see a small dipple. Seems like a repair.

On the Transome, just discloration no clues like the above.

But never ther less this is just cosmetic....easily can be repair later on....and should not stop me from buying the boat?


The blue should be paint on this boat. Donzi was painting just about everything by 2006.

I'd say one of two possibilities,

1) A non-match paint repair as described above, probably due to edge peel.

2) An overzellus buff job that has partially burned through the paint allowing the white gel from underneath to show through.

I'd suspect #2 due to the bright white areas in the chine area pictures.

zelatore
11-08-2010, 02:17 PM
I don't know that it's a repair. I've seen blue hulls 'fade' like that over time on some new boats that never had a repair (at least not at the dealer or first owner level - anything's possible at the factory level). Generally, we'd see that within a year, and only on blue boats. I suspected the dark color may have suffered more under the hot sun than white, but then again I never saw it on the same boats in green so ???

These were on a different brand boat, and they were gel finishes. The builder was going through a tough time QC wise, and has since gone out of business.

But the failures looked very much like that. And no, they didn't cover them as warranty, claiming it was non-structural. Of course, they pretty much denied anything so that's not to say a better manufacturer wouldn't stand behind it if you had the documentation and history to show it wasn't due to some sort of owner-induced problem.

VetteLT193
11-08-2010, 02:39 PM
Even with a dimple I still say it is from buffing. My guess is the boat sat in the water for a bit... maybe a week or two, and there were some barnacles starting to form. They buffed it out and at the bottom where they grow the most is where it took the biggest impact.

Not really a big deal at all, unless it bothers you personally.

I'd look at it from the inside to be sure there is no evidence of fiberglass repair and if it checks out ok then just use the discoloration as a negotiation tool

Selenium
11-09-2010, 10:02 AM
Chuck at Donzi provided me with this imformation. So fixing the faded areas will be a bit harder with the matching for the blue gelcoat?

BLUE GELCOAT HK MG-6671
WHITE GELCOAT HK LHM 2816
WHITE STRIPE ON DECK PAINT CODE 24048

The faded areas appear to be areas that had cosmetic gelcoat repairs

mike o
11-09-2010, 11:34 AM
on my "guess" was the boat has an all blue hull and deck, all one color. So, that being the case, why use white gelcoat on the build and then "paint" the boat completely blue. Cause, blue gelcoat cost only about 95 - $1.25 cents / lb more $ than white gelcoat, but the deck and hull would a final outside finish cost of $100- 150" ball park ", based on 100lbs of blue gelcoat, sted of white. All Don-zie, :kingme:....Cept, the white painted stipe.........:kingme: Just saying, I thought they didnt use paint on the very bottom, below the water line OEM, cause of, well.........:crossfing:. If they do like Rick SE says:yes:......they do......:kingme:. He sold Em.......:yes:

RickSE
11-09-2010, 03:31 PM
The truth teller between gel & paint is the edge. You won't be able to feel an edge transition if it's all gel like you can with paint. With paint there is a definite edge transition due to the masking and build-up of clear.

As far as I know the 2005 Aronow boats were the last of the colored gel Classics with everything else after being painted but I'm sure there might be exceptions.

Carl, Are your hull sides gel or paint?

Selenium, does the fade in picture #3 go above the trim tab mount? It looks like there is a second stage fade thats less significant and a lot wider then the fade on the bottom near the keel.

The other thing I've seen before which may be a possibility here is shipping damage while a boat is being shipped from Donzi to the dealer. The transporters have something come loose during the trip, don't catch it then the dealer has to deal with the issues. We had a chain beat the snot out of deck boat once before we got it.

VetteLT193
11-09-2010, 04:22 PM
The more I look at the pics, the more convinced I get that someone over-buffed it. you can see where it is lighter with white underneath. the scratch marks match what a buffer would do, etc.

If you have ever seen someone burn through paint this is what it looks like.

You can also see many white spots. zoom all the way in, and you'll see white underneath the blue...

I'm convinced the boat sat in the water for a period of time (maybe only a week or two) crap started to grow, and someone cleaned it best they could... some of the crap took off some paint. some of the buffing burned through some paint. and a few new parts

Selenium
11-09-2010, 06:17 PM
Selenium, does the fade in picture #3 go above the trim tab mount? It looks like there is a second stage fade thats less significant and a lot wider then the fade on the bottom near the keel.

Yes you are correct...which is about 3.5-4" high.


The truth teller between gel & paint is the edge. You won't be able to feel an edge transition if it's all gel like you can with paint. With paint there is a definite edge transition due to the masking and build-up of clear.

As far as I know the 2005 Aronow boats were the last of the colored gel Classics with everything else after being painted but I'm sure there might be exceptions.

Carl, Are your hull sides gel or paint?

Selenium, does the fade in picture #3 go above the trim tab mount? It looks like there is a second stage fade thats less significant and a lot wider then the fade on the bottom near the keel.

The other thing I've seen before which may be a possibility here is shipping damage while a boat is being shipped from Donzi to the dealer. The transporters have something come loose during the trip, don't catch it then the dealer has to deal with the issues. We had a chain beat the snot out of deck boat once before we got it.

Selenium
11-09-2010, 06:20 PM
The white underneath on the side with the circle fading is actually cracking of the gelcoat...spider cracking. About 1/2"x2.5" wide.


The more I look at the pics, the more convinced I get that someone over-buffed it. you can see where it is lighter with white underneath. the scratch marks match what a buffer would do, etc.

If you have ever seen someone burn through paint this is what it looks like.

You can also see many white spots. zoom all the way in, and you'll see white underneath the blue...

I'm convinced the boat sat in the water for a period of time (maybe only a week or two) crap started to grow, and someone cleaned it best they could... some of the crap took off some paint. some of the buffing burned through some paint. and a few new parts

Selenium
11-09-2010, 06:26 PM
Rick,

I guess I should buy the boat...sometimes down the road find a good gelcoat guy in Seattle and have him fix these flaws. Honestly, if it was just cosmetically...I will use the boat and enjoy it. Down the road get it properly repaired.

OFFSHORE GINGER
11-09-2010, 06:35 PM
Yes sir, by the defined edges of the patch. Looks like an off color gel repair, from here.........:kingme:Wrong , it could have been right on ......after the repair was done and over a period of time like anything else everything has a tendency to change depending on how well the boat is taken care of .

Selenium
11-09-2010, 06:43 PM
Overall it's a nice boat with the engine practically new.

Mechanic checked - 23.8 hrs with 10 hrs at idle 0-750 rpm.

OFFSHORE GINGER
11-09-2010, 06:44 PM
Rick,

I guess I should buy the boat...sometimes down the road find a good gelcoat guy in Seattle and have him fix these flaws. Honestly, if it was just cosmetically...I will use the boat and enjoy it. Down the road get it properly repaired. Yes , you should buy the boat if you are interested in it and if it suits your fancy and to tell you the truth that repair could have been done right at Donzi like many other repairs that are done at any other Boat Co's , which includes jell work or anything else that comes down the pike before it goes out the door .

DonziJon
11-09-2010, 06:48 PM
You haven't mentioned the year of the boat...or maybe I missed it. If I had the questions that you have brought up ..and concerned you, ..as apparently it has..I would NOT buy the boat until those questions were affirmatively answered to your satisfaction. It's a Buyers Market. You don't have to buy THIS boat. As you have pointed out..and justifyably so..It has some flaws...:lookaroun: DJ

OFFSHORE GINGER
11-09-2010, 06:56 PM
Hey guy , just a quick mention and you will never know because those spots listed above just might need a little wet sanding and buffing to bring them back to life .

Selenium
11-09-2010, 06:58 PM
This is a 2006 with 496 Mag HO with captain exhaust. Hull still have a 1.5 yr warranty on it. I'm in contact with Donzi just case the stringer issue comes up. Survey pretty much came up clean except the fading and Mechanical came up clean with 23.8 hrs with 10 hrs at idle.


You haven't mentioned the year of the boat...or maybe I missed it. If I had the questions that you have brought up ..and concerned you, ..as apparently you have..I would NOT buy the boat until those questions were affirmatively answered to your satisfaction. It's a Buyers Market. You don't have to buy THIS boat. :lookaroun: DJ

DonziJon
11-09-2010, 07:17 PM
Grab a bottle of 3M Marine Cleaner & Wax..#09009. Try that on the spot on the side of the boat. West Marine sells it. All you need is a little scrap of rag to apply it..then a small dry rag to remove it. I use a terry cloth towel that was previously used for my shower.

BTW: I use it on my Toyota Tacoma and Camry to remove little scratches and skuff marks. So you are not stuck if it doesn't work on THIS Donzi. DJ

mrfixxall
11-09-2010, 09:21 PM
The white underneath on the side with the circle fading is actually cracking of the gelcoat...spider cracking. About 1/2"x2.5" wide.

here's my theory,,the boat's paint was probably blistering from the boat sitting in the water..that boat has paint on the center stripe ,,on the deck and sides and back,,that's the way donzi does them..When the guy did the repairs probably did not know it was paint and used Gel coat instead of paint,when you gel over paint it will lift the paint when its feathered back thin,that is what you are seeing and if you look closer you will probably see the spider cracks all the way around the repair...it will be a easy repair,all that needs to be done is find the rite color code,wet block sand the areas that are affected, mask off the whole boat accept the effected areas and put on dust on the first coat,apply 3 more medium to heave coats of paint,reduce down the last coat and melt in the edges..wait a few weeks and wet sand and buff..

yeller
11-09-2010, 09:28 PM
Chuck at Donzi provided me with this imformation. So fixing the faded areas will be a bit harder with the matching for the blue gelcoat?

BLUE GELCOAT HK MG-6671
WHITE GELCOAT HK LHM 2816
WHITE STRIPE ON DECK PAINT CODE 24048

The faded areas appear to be areas that had cosmetic gelcoat repairsDid you find out if the boat is gel or paint? Despite what Chuck sent you, I'm sure that boat is painted. I'm positive this is the boat that Power Boats NorthWest had at the 06 Seattle boat show. At that time, I noticed a very, very, small chip in the blue deck that revealed white below it. (Indicating the blue was painted on a white hull). Donzi would be able to tell you if this boat originally went to PBNW, but it's highly unlikely two of the same color combos came out west.

mrfixxall
11-09-2010, 09:36 PM
Did you find out if the boat is gel or paint? Despite what Chuck sent you, I'm sure that boat is painted. I'm positive this is the boat that Power Boats NorthWest had at the 06 Seattle boat show. At that time, I noticed a very, very, small chip in the blue deck that revealed white below it. (Indicating the blue was painted on a white hull). Donzi would be able to tell you if this boat originally went to PBNW, but it's highly unlikely two of the same color combos came out west.

this make's sence now,,,mabe they droped it on it's A$$ and chipped the paint on the transom also

Selenium
11-10-2010, 11:13 AM
Chuck just informed me this is the boat that went to Power Boats NorthWest in 2006. What's your impression of the boat and what do you know about this boat?



Did you find out if the boat is gel or paint? Despite what Chuck sent you, I'm sure that boat is painted. I'm positive this is the boat that Power Boats NorthWest had at the 06 Seattle boat show. At that time, I noticed a very, very, small chip in the blue deck that revealed white below it. (Indicating the blue was painted on a white hull). Donzi would be able to tell you if this boat originally went to PBNW, but it's highly unlikely two of the same color combos came out west.

yeller
11-10-2010, 04:05 PM
Chuck just informed me this is the boat that went to Power Boats NorthWest in 2006. What's your impression of the boat and what do you know about this boat?Don't know much about the boat. I know my wife and I fell in love with it when we saw it. It is absolutely beautiful!!

The 'chip' I saw in the top deck was not much bigger than a pin head. I remember seeing it though because it surprised me. Up until that point I didn't realize Donzi was painting boats. I thought they were all gel. I don't know if the it's possible the top deck is painted and the hull is gel? In any case, don't rely on me 100%. I'd hate to steer you wrong.

Selenium
11-10-2010, 05:25 PM
Is this before or after you got your SE :-)? If it's after then I would feel pretty special knowing it came from a SE owner.


Don't know much about the boat. I know my wife and I fell in love with it when we saw it. It is absolutely beautiful!!

The 'chip' I saw in the top deck was not much bigger than a pin head. I remember seeing it though because it surprised me. Up until that point I didn't realize Donzi was painting boats. I thought they were all gel. I don't know if the it's possible the top deck is painted and the hull is gel? In any case, don't rely on me 100%. I'd hate to steer you wrong.

yeller
11-11-2010, 01:20 PM
I don't have an SE. Mine is a 40th Anniversary Edition.

When I first saw the boat you are looking at I had a 16C. I wanted to get a 22C, but the wife wanted to get a different style boat. She said if we were going to change boats, then we should change styles as well. When she saw that blue boat, she instantly changed her mind and wanted to get a 22C. The salesman offered it at $54k. We both wanted it bad, but it was about $20k over budget.

Selenium
11-11-2010, 03:59 PM
Yeller can you tell me when 54K was offered to you?

Here's the Time Line I know on the boat:

1. Came out to Power Boat Northwest in 2006.
2. March 2007 was picked by an elderly gentleman in WA.
3. He had the boat for about roughly 1.5-2 yrs.
4. Went to Sundance as a trade-in.
5. Sundance had it for about 2-2.5 yrs.
6. Trueser on Donzi net posted the ad on 4/7/2008 with the asking price of 59.9K
7. Now it's listed for 39.9K


I don't have an SE. Mine is a 40th Anniversary Edition.

When I first saw the boat you are looking at I had a 16C. I wanted to get a 22C, but the wife wanted to get a different style boat. She said if we were going to change boats, then we should change styles as well. When she saw that blue boat, she instantly changed her mind and wanted to get a 22C. The salesman offered it at $54k. We both wanted it bad, but it was about $20k over budget.

yeller
11-12-2010, 12:29 AM
Yeller can you tell me when 54K was offered to you?At the Seattle boat show. Can't remember what month that was....or even year. I bought mine in early 06, so it would have been 05 or very early 06. I hadn't even asked the price and the salesman said he'd let it go for 54k, so I'm pretty sure I could have knocked a few grand off that.....or had a trailer thrown in.

zelatore
11-12-2010, 03:40 PM
Well, the main Seattle show is in January (I'll be at the one coming up looking at down-easters and tugs...oh heck, I'll be looking at everything) so I guess 1-06?

yeller
11-12-2010, 06:06 PM
Well, the main Seattle show is in January (I'll be at the one coming up looking at down-easters and tugs...oh heck, I'll be looking at everything) so I guess 1-06?January 06 sounds right.