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lolgranny
09-17-2010, 01:18 PM
Im looking for sound ratings on a 2000 Donzi Scorpion
Twin 377 engines
Stock Muffled Exhaust
4" outlets

Reason being, i live in IL on the river and the police have been harassing me. They gave me my 3rd ticket for how "loud" my stock boat is. Im going to court to fight this on Monday and need to find some factory readings or something to help me add to my list of evidence.

ANY help will work,
Thanks alot guys i appreciate it very much
David

BUIZILLA
09-17-2010, 01:34 PM
unless they did a certified db test at ticket time, with specific go or no-go numbers, it's all rhetorical and opinionated what's ticketable or not....

Dr. David Fleming
09-17-2010, 01:39 PM
Take a lawyer - this is about law not boats - My dad was an attorney as are my sons - dad's advice "if you want justice go by yourself - if you want a solution to your problem take a lawyer." For God sake do us all a favor and take a lawyer with a photo of your boat exhaust system showing it is the way it was built by the manufacturer - we have a right to use our products the way they were manufacutured without police enhansment/harrassment of of the issues.

This is called "grandfathering" - my 1966 Chrysler was built before seat belts - if a cop pulls me over I don't have to have the frickin seat belts because the car us usable the way it was built. This is also why if you ride in the front of a pickup truck you need a seat belt but if you ride in the bed you need nothing.

Go figure - with deference to any law inforcement readers, the law is an ass sometimes - just play the game.

lolgranny
09-17-2010, 01:49 PM
Take a lawyer - this is about law not boats - My dad was an attorney as are my sons - dad's advice "if you want justice go by yourself - if you want a solution to your problem take a lawyer." For God sake do us all a favor and take a lawyer with a photo of your boat exhaust system showing it is the way it was built by the manufacturer - we have a right to use our products the way they were manufacutured without police enhansment/harrassment of of the issues.

This is called "grandfathering" - my 1966 Chrysler was built before seat belts - if a cop pulls me over I don't have to have the frickin seat belts because the car us usable the way it was built. This is also why if you ride in the front of a pickup truck you need a seat belt but if you ride in the bed you need nothing.

Go figure - with deference to any law inforcement readers, the law is an ass sometimes - just play the game.

Exactly, they are just harassing me. They took the reading right next to locks. 2 rotations went throught, meaning 8+ boats. There is a seawall on both sides and the test was not taken according to law. I have about 30 photos of my boat / where it was taken, but i was unsure if there was some factory decibel readings put out there.

lolgranny
09-17-2010, 01:52 PM
unless they did a certified db test at ticket time, with specific go or no-go numbers, it's all rhetorical and opinionated what's ticketable or not....

They did the test, but not to law. They were supose to measure so far from the back of my boat and so much above the water. Take the test before and after so they are able to subtract sounds given off by locks...other boats ect... they didnt. Im going to fight it the best i can, so we will see what happens.

mike o
09-17-2010, 03:28 PM
My 02 18c 377 (non scorp) was 92-93db at 5 ft, with straight pipes. Tested by a friend who inspect MO-MO-bikes, with his meter here in NH.

lolgranny
09-17-2010, 03:40 PM
My 02 18c 377 (non scorp) was 92-93db at 5 ft, with straight pipes. Tested by a friend who inspect MO-MO-bikes, with his meter here in NH.

And thats the thing, my exhaust is stock. I have court Monday, ill see what happens. I wish there was a marina who was a certified tester around here. Ive went to everyone on the river and nothing, nor does anyone know someone who has one.

I have all my pictures and the law according to how they should be testing. Ill let you guys know what happens.

mattyboy
09-17-2010, 03:59 PM
most states use the same standard to test, usually the number is from 88 to 93 db depending on the state.

you have to know your local laws, sometimes bodies of water within a state adopt stricter thresholds.

most things that are common in the laws

the tester has to be certified

the db meter and all testing equipment must be calibrated

the test must be given by the book and has to account for surroundings like dock piers other boats and has specific test procedures that must be followed

some boats are exempt like raceboats ( only in a sanctioned race) boats made prior to usually 1964, boats being tested by a bona fide mechanic, or a boat practicing for a sanctioned race on an approved charted course.

any bypass of a muffler system is illegal, to sell or mfg'r a boat with a bypass is illegal some states look at quick and quiet as a bypass



you have to know your laws, i would not use i bought it that way as a defense, or donzi made it that way either.

the only real defense you have is to negate the test results or the testing procedure or the tester. or come in under the number

this will get you off one time and usually the LEO will not make the same mistake again, the next time it will be by the book.


most if not all state laws have their loop holes you need to know them, I have NY state noise law pretty much committed to memory

I know when i can push it and when to slip in silencers

mrfixxall
09-17-2010, 04:02 PM
And thats the thing, my exhaust is stock. I have court Monday, ill see what happens. I wish there was a marina who was a certified tester around here. Ive went to everyone on the river and nothing, nor does anyone know someone who has one.

I have all my pictures and the law according to how they should be testing. Ill let you guys know what happens.

i was pulled over by the mchenry's finest....they went to the point of measuring my exhaust of 116 db's then they tryed to write e up..then i pulled out the piece of paper that stated that my boat being a 1977 which they didnt believe was under the grand father clause that didnt need mufflers.. so i had to show proof that the boat was that old and they had to let me go :) they are real crooks..

mattyboy
09-17-2010, 04:13 PM
Fixx,
that's exactly what I am talking about

77 in Ill. really in NY it is 64

dsparis
09-17-2010, 04:15 PM
Another reason why I won't take my obnoxiously loud 18c to the chain. No restrictions on the Kankakee. Last year I took it to Delaven and Barney Fife stopped me while I was launching. I had'nt even started it yet.

mike o
09-17-2010, 04:36 PM
http://www.nasbla.net/referenceguide/index.php?queryID=IL Says 90db in IL. 2db over and they write. If you have corsa cans you should be under I would think. NH is 86

mrfixxall
09-17-2010, 04:59 PM
http://www.nasbla.net/referenceguide/index.php?queryID=IL Says 90db in IL. 2db over and they write. If you have corsa cans you should be under I would think. NH is 86

that was 2 yrs ago, i have the piece of paper in my boat stating the rules but they do change! im going to have to call then now..

lolgranny
09-17-2010, 05:34 PM
i was pulled over by the mchenry's finest....they went to the point of measuring my exhaust of 116 db's then they tryed to write e up..then i pulled out the piece of paper that stated that my boat being a 1977 which they didnt believe was under the grand father clause that didnt need mufflers.. so i had to show proof that the boat was that old and they had to let me go :) they are real crooks..

HELL yes they are, sick how bad this state has become. Hopefully i can beat the system on this one. They measured me at 96, so 6 over, and you should see some of these boats on the river. INSANE loud.

lolgranny
09-17-2010, 05:36 PM
http://www.nasbla.net/referenceguide/index.php?queryID=IL Says 90db in IL. 2db over and they write. If you have corsa cans you should be under I would think. NH is 86

Ya bud, i know its 90 just looking to see if there was a factory printout of what the Donzi would be rated at so i could just say to the judge "here ya go, proof of what it is and what it has been, good day!" only if it was that smooth :(

lolgranny
09-17-2010, 05:43 PM
most states use the same standard to test, usually the number is from 88 to 93 db depending on the state.

you have to know your local laws, sometimes bodies of water within a state adopt stricter thresholds.

most things that are common in the laws

the tester has to be certified

the db meter and all testing equipment must be calibrated

the test must be given by the book and has to account for surroundings like dock piers other boats and has specific test procedures that must be followed

some boats are exempt like raceboats ( only in a sanctioned race) boats made prior to usually 1964, boats being tested by a bona fide mechanic, or a boat practicing for a sanctioned race on an approved charted course.

any bypass of a muffler system is illegal, to sell or mfg'r a boat with a bypass is illegal some states look at quick and quiet as a bypass



you have to know your laws, i would not use i bought it that way as a defense, or donzi made it that way either.

the only real defense you have is to negate the test results or the testing procedure or the tester. or come in under the number

this will get you off one time and usually the LEO will not make the same mistake again, the next time it will be by the book.


most if not all state laws have their loop holes you need to know them, I have NY state noise law pretty much committed to memory

I know when i can push it and when to slip in silencers

See thats the thing, the test wasn't done by the "law" They measured 3ft from the back of the boat when its suppose to be 4.3ft, 5ft off the water and 10ft from any seawall...ect. They just thumbed out the 3ft and did it about 8ft from the wall. RIGHT NEXT TO 4+ boats and the locks. They didnt take a reading before, just took 1. I said that was nonsense and he threatened to give me more tickets so i just shut my trap for the time being haha.

As if 80$ for boat stickers weren't robbing us enough. goodness

RickSE
09-17-2010, 07:38 PM
I swear the swim platform on the ZX's makes the exhaust seem louder vs a straight transom. There is something about the echo under the platform that seems to magnify the noise. My dad and I both have 500EFI's with the same tips and his ZX seems way louder then my Classic.

Good Luck.

lolgranny
09-18-2010, 12:28 AM
I swear the swim platform on the ZX's makes the exhaust seem louder vs a straight transom. There is something about the echo under the platform that seems to magnify the noise. My dad and I both have 500EFI's with the same tips and his ZX seems way louder then my Classic.

Good Luck.

Thanks bud, i shall see what happens Monday. Hopefully Donzi gets back to me with some information. Mercruiser had no info for me.

-Dave

lolgranny
09-21-2010, 12:13 AM
Cop was a no show so it got continued. The fight continues. Im still searching for someone who can test them. Donzi is still a no call back on the inquiry.

RickSE
09-21-2010, 12:39 PM
Cop was a no show so it got continued...


That's Bull, they should have dismissed the case if the cop was a no-show. That's how it works out here in AZ. :bonk:

BUIZILLA
09-21-2010, 12:46 PM
should be a law if a cop writes a ticket then it's mandatory court appearance if a case is scheduled

VetteLT193
09-21-2010, 12:58 PM
Did you call Corsa yet? I have Corsa tips on mine, and I think you should have the same. Corsa probably has better information on db level, although it will be different on every boat, motor, etc. so it will only get you so far.

If yours sounds anything like mine I don't know how you could have gotten a ticket. My single engine Minx was 2x louder than my 28ZX. Mine is a bit newer with the 6.2 MPI's (aka 377 Mags)

lolgranny
09-21-2010, 01:00 PM
should be a law if a cop writes a ticket then it's mandatory court appearance if a case is scheduled

No **** about that. Good ol goverment. :nilly:

lolgranny
09-21-2010, 01:02 PM
Did you call Corsa yet? I have Corsa tips on mine, and I think you should have the same. Corsa probably has better information on db level, although it will be different on every boat, motor, etc. so it will only get you so far.

If yours sounds anything like mine I don't know how you could have gotten a ticket. My single engine Minx was 2x louder than my 28ZX. Mine is a bit newer with the 6.2 MPI's (aka 377 Mags)

I havent, but i will this week. Hopefully someone can give me some info. I have all the pictures taken of where it happened so i think ill win. I figured since the cop didnt show, i might go and ask for a continuance just to be a d bag. Its ridiculous how they do things.

VetteLT193
09-21-2010, 01:07 PM
What may also help you is to take pictures of the inside of the exhaust tip. It's a bit damming to someone who knows nothing to see that the inside of the muffler tip because it looks almost completely blocked off like nothing could ever get through including sound.

mrfixxall
09-21-2010, 02:29 PM
Cop was a no show so it got continued. The fight continues. Im still searching for someone who can test them. Donzi is still a no call back on the inquiry.


ythey should have thrown the ticket out!! it wasnt a accident, should have told the judge that you couldn't take ant more time off work or you will get fired, well at leaste it worked in the past for me :)

DB meter call a high end stero shop, they should have one..or buy a cheepo!
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS363US363&q=decibel+meter&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=162231619543944288&ei=YPmYTO7GMpGBnwffrJXADw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDsQ8wIwAg#

Papu
09-21-2010, 02:44 PM
Two months ago I towed my new Donzi back from Minnesota. The next day was a Sunday so I launched it without a Michigan registration, no life jackets, no fire extinguisher, and without my purchase paperwork. Tore all over the lake exceeding the speed limit by 20 MPH. Passed the cops on the way back to the boat launch, and they smiled and waved, while giving a couple in a dingy a citation for not permanently mounting their registration #'s. All laws are arbitrary; enforcement even more so.