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tylogans 22
08-06-2010, 09:41 AM
I recently purchased a 1996 22 classic with a 502 procharger, however I think I need to change the pitch of the prop. Current prop is a Bravo 4 Blade with a 32 pitch. I'm currenlty able to run it to 4100RPM with a top speed of 75mph. The prop has a couple of small nick's in it so I sure I'm loosing a couple of 100's. I have checked the timing and fuel pressure both are within spec with this set up. I'm thinking of going down to a 30 or 29. Any comments will be appreciated.

mrfixxall
08-06-2010, 10:26 AM
I recently purchased a 1996 22 classic with a 502 procharger, however I think I need to change the pitch of the prop. Current prop is a Bravo 4 Blade with a 32 pitch. I'm currenlty able to run it to 4100RPM with a top speed of 75mph. The prop has a couple of small nick's in it so I sure I'm loosing a couple of 100's. I have checked the timing and fuel pressure both are within spec with this set up. I'm thinking of going down to a 30 or 29. Any comments will be appreciated.


i think your motor is hurt! or its not fireing on all 8 cylinders..do a compression test first before you spend money on other props.with that motor stock will run 75 mph but not with a 32 propeller..Carl c on here has a 525 efi non procharger and he is running a 30 p bravo 1..unless you have a 1.36 ratio drive that that would make up for the bigger prop your running..
post more specs on your boat,booste pressure,drive ratio, Shorty drive? etc..

pics would help also..

tylogans 22
08-06-2010, 12:03 PM
Currently running 3-5lbs of boost, Bravo outdrive, compression is good. This weekend were going to put the stock 3 blade on and see what happens. I'm sure it will get very loose but I'm curious to see the difference in RPM's. Timing is set at 30 degree's, I confirmed with procharger and they stated timing must be between 29-32.

BigGrizzly
08-06-2010, 01:34 PM
I have the 502 procharged and I use a 28 and 29 depending. mine is a carb version. my boatdoes not like Bravo 1props.

The Hedgehog
08-06-2010, 02:18 PM
I am with Fixx. Something does not sounds right.

A Procharged 502 should pull to around 5,100 before it runs out of beans. It should be running north of 600 hp. I will try to dig up some dyno sheets.

You should try a smaller 3 blade though. What may be happening is that the big 4 blade is loading up the boost early due to torque requirements. Then the boost reference regulator is jacking up the fuel pressure causing it to load up on fuel at lower RPM's.

If you are running a stock X, the 3 blade may not be as loose as you think.

For comparison purposes, Grizz here is running a smaller prop and pushing over 800hp.

I run a 32" Bravo I. I have a step hull, more weight and a higher x dim so it is kind of apples to oranges. I can tell you that it takes some pretty big power to swing one.

tylogans 22
08-06-2010, 06:55 PM
I have the 502 procharged and I use a 28 and 29 depending. mine is a carb version. my boatdoes not like Bravo 1props.

Thanks for the information. Also if it doesnt like bravo what type of prop are you running?

BigGrizzly
08-07-2010, 10:49 AM
My two favorites is the TXP 3 blade and the new OXP 4 bade. Problem is in some boats the OXP likes to have a load of people on board at least with a shorty. There has not been a holelot of testing on Donzis with the OS1. I am the first. However If I had your boat I would go with the TXP. I have been selling props for a long time and I really like the TXP.

tylogans 22
08-07-2010, 12:35 PM
My two favorites is the TXP 3 blade and the new OXP 4 bade. Problem is in some boats the OXP likes to have a load of people on board at least with a shorty. There has not been a holelot of testing on Donzis with the OS1. I am the first. However If I had your boat I would go with the TXP. I have been selling props for a long time and I really like the TXP.

Thanks for the info. How much for the txp? Also what pitch would u recommend?

mrfixxall
08-07-2010, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the info. How much for the txp? Also what pitch would u recommend?


run the three blade at max rpm's then take it fron their..

fysis
08-08-2010, 04:13 AM
My two favorites is the TXP 3 blade and the new OXP 4 bade. Problem is in some boats the OXP likes to have a load of people on board at least with a shorty. There has not been a holelot of testing on Donzis with the OS1. I am the first. However If I had your boat I would go with the TXP. I have been selling props for a long time and I really like the TXP.
Hi Big Grizzly. This year with the 540 i run 81.2 mph at close to 5600rpm with the Turbo fusion 27" 4 blade . Then i took you on the words and tried the TXP 29" 3 blade . Rpm down to 5100 speed up to 83.2mph . Whatīs your opinion about the fusion ?? gonna try a 28 or 29 of them.Since the grip out of the water is superior compared to the TXP. This forum is so great for a swede like me just getting started with the Classic 22:sweden:

BigGrizzly
08-08-2010, 11:51 AM
A lot depends on the drive and boat.. The fusion is great for shortys that need the grip to get on plane. The TXP is faster usually But real loose up top. There have been many who have beaten labbed Bravos with TXP on this board. Me I do not like labbing. The last real Texan loves the fusion but the TXp is 2 mph faster up top but is really loose in adverse conditions at WFO. Truth is I have three favotits a special Tutbo 1 which is a one off that I gave to my best friend the TXP and the NEW OXP, with the Fusion really close at hand. I Have gotten to the point that extra MPH does not matter to me.
I have a question for you. Are Volvo speed rails still available where you are, i would like a set.

BigGrizzly
08-08-2010, 11:53 AM
TY I will get back to you by PM. or you can call me at 706-216-8194

fysis
08-08-2010, 02:20 PM
A lot depends on the drive and boat.. The fusion is great for shortys that need the grip to get on plane. The TXP is faster usually But real loose up top. There have been many who have beaten labbed Bravos with TXP on this board. Me I do not like labbing. The last real Texan loves the fusion but the TXp is 2 mph faster up top but is really loose in adverse conditions at WFO. Truth is I have three favotits a special Tutbo 1 which is a one off that I gave to my best friend the TXP and the NEW OXP, with the Fusion really close at hand. I Have gotten to the point that extra MPH does not matter to me.
I have a question for you. Are Volvo speed rails still available where you are, i would like a set. Guess they are . My friend īs been working at volvo since -81 i can ask him. What year and model are you looking for??

BigGrizzly
08-08-2010, 09:18 PM
the speed rails are an accessory. I want the ones for a 22 foot boat.

zelatore
08-08-2010, 11:14 PM
FWIW, one more data point-

My '01 22 with a 502, stock power other than SM exhaust and an M3 procharger, would spin one of Griz's 28 TXP 3-blades right into the rev limiter at about 82 gps. I could clearly carry more prop, and plan to work with Griz again when the time comes to continue this project.

BigGrizzly
08-09-2010, 08:58 AM
Zel, been wondering what happened to you. Not all prochargersand engines are the same. Maybe TY wants to try yours for a base line, could right for him.

blackhawk
08-09-2010, 09:41 AM
I recently purchased a 1996 22 classic with a 502 procharger, however I think I need to change the pitch of the prop. Current prop is a Bravo 4 Blade with a 32 pitch. I'm currenlty able to run it to 4100RPM with a top speed of 75mph. The prop has a couple of small nick's in it so I sure I'm loosing a couple of 100's. I have checked the timing and fuel pressure both are within spec with this set up. I'm thinking of going down to a 30 or 29. Any comments will be appreciated.


Are you running at altitude???

I would go down in prop size and see if you get some rpms. Which may also raise your boost. I know in my friend's boat he only runs a couple lbs of boost at 4000 rpm, but at 5200 he runs 5lbs. So, maybe the smaller prop will raise rpms, and in turn raise boost and speed. I might be wrong on that but you still want to run a smaller prop to get rpms up.

If you still don't get more speed I'm with fixx you are down on hp. But hopefully it works!

zelatore
08-10-2010, 12:10 AM
Hey Griz - I've been laying low on the boat stuff lately due to a lack of cash-flow. In the mean time, I've been spending a lot of time playing with the bikes. I can run the Triumph for a looooooong time on what one day of boating costs me.

I think I'll start getting back into the Donzi this fall though. I can't stand seeing the motor scattered about the garage like some dismembered corpse.

If needed, I'm certainly not using that TXP any time soon, and I was planning to move up when the boat goes back in the water anyway. So if TY wants to try it I'm sure we can work something out.

fysis
08-10-2010, 04:06 PM
the speed rails are an accessory. I want the ones for a 22 foot boat.
Sorry i missunderstod you Grizz thought you ment a car part .Specify what you want and i give it a shoot.:sweden:

BigGrizzly
08-10-2010, 05:15 PM
A speed rail is/was a part offered by Volvo marine dealers to enhance handling ans to some extent speed on boats. They do a better job on handling with some experimenting

fysis
08-22-2010, 01:56 PM
A speed rail is/was a part offered by Volvo marine dealers to enhance handling ans to some extent speed on boats. They do a better job on handling with some experimenting
Griz. Sorry to say but the speed rails seems to have vanished even at this side of the big water. I have a little one for you. Next year i will have un Imco shorty on my boat ..thinking..should i go for the 1.36 gear ?? the 10% difference (compared to 1.50)should give me the same speed with about 3" less rake .Would you say that there would bee any speed or handling benefits of that theory. Could less rake be more efficient? Or is it just like 1x1=1:sweden:

Ed Donnelly
08-22-2010, 05:50 PM
Griz; I ran speed rails on the 16' many many years ago try

Ocke Mannerfelt Design . Go to Motorboats/the technology. or

Speed Rails and Bat Wings - Jul 1994 - Google Books Result
Popular Mechanics - Vol. 171, No. 7 - 118 pages - Magazine
While at the show, Volvo Penta announced that it will become the exclusive distributor of Speed Rails to the North American market, both for new hull ...
books.google.ca/books?id=u-MDAAAAMBAJ..

OR

go to google and type in Speed Rails and Bat Wings

Then click on .... Speed Rails and Bat Wings - Jul 1994 - Google Books Result

BigGrizzly
08-23-2010, 09:25 AM
When you say you have a little one for me do you mean a question or the speed rail. To answer the question. I would probably keep the1.5. the reason is the optimum props come from 27 to 32 any thing above that becomes a problem with manufacturing. Generally speaking the bigger props at less rpms the faster ---to a point. If it were me I would get the 3 inch shorty and spacer kits. problem is the 3 will only turn a 15 1/8 prop. there are some new stuff that is good but 15 1/2 diameter. So where you are I may re evaluate and go with the 2 inch shorty. One other glitch the 1.36 is stronger then the 1.50. So depending on the power the 1.36would still be in the 27 to 28 range, which is a good place to be prop wise.with prop availability. Keep the right hand drive do NOT go left hand period!!!!!! Noe on a boatw if you can get the small speed rails I would like to get them, they will work for my application. I am not getting them for speed but a handling issue I have on a boat.

fysis
08-23-2010, 01:32 PM
When you say you have a little one for me do you mean a question or the speed rail. To answer the question. I would probably keep the1.5. the reason is the optimum props come from 27 to 32 any thing above that becomes a problem with manufacturing. Generally speaking the bigger props at less rpms the faster ---to a point. If it were me I would get the 3 inch shorty and spacer kits. problem is the 3 will only turn a 15 1/8 prop. there are some new stuff that is good but 15 1/2 diameter. So where you are I may re evaluate and go with the 2 inch shorty. One other glitch the 1.36 is stronger then the 1.50. So depending on the power the 1.36would still be in the 27 to 28 range, which is a good place to be prop wise.with prop availability. Keep the right hand drive do NOT go left hand period!!!!!! Noe on a boatw if you can get the small speed rails I would like to get them, they will work for my application. I am not getting them for speed but a handling issue I have on a boat. Thankīs Griz. I will make some extra phone calls tomorrow about the speed rails and right now iīm putting out a search for it at our boat site forum over here. By coinsidense i spoke to a friend over here about the 1.36 vs 1.50 and he had done some serious testing of the matter and come to the conclusion that the 1.50 was faster . Each gear with the "right prop" of coarse. He works at a major marin engine shop over here VMT. They recently had a visit from folks from the Mercury racing division and they had disscussed the subjekt. The Mercury guys suggestion was keep the 1.50 and go for more rake.....if itīs top speed your looking for. Griz get back to you as soon as i hear anything more about the speed rails.:sweden:

fysis
08-23-2010, 03:30 PM
When you say you have a little one for me do you mean a question or the speed rail. To answer the question. I would probably keep the1.5. the reason is the optimum props come from 27 to 32 any thing above that becomes a problem with manufacturing. Generally speaking the bigger props at less rpms the faster ---to a point. If it were me I would get the 3 inch shorty and spacer kits. problem is the 3 will only turn a 15 1/8 prop. there are some new stuff that is good but 15 1/2 diameter. So where you are I may re evaluate and go with the 2 inch shorty. One other glitch the 1.36 is stronger then the 1.50. So depending on the power the 1.36would still be in the 27 to 28 range, which is a good place to be prop wise.with prop availability. Keep the right hand drive do NOT go left hand period!!!!!! Noe on a boatw if you can get the small speed rails I would like to get them, they will work for my application. I am not getting them for speed but a handling issue I have on a boat. Griz. Try this www.rocamarine.se (http://www.rocamarine.se) view" produkter a-o " go down to S =speed rails they even have instruktions and everything Mail them and let me know if they have what you want then i can buy them for you and send them over. The company is not far from my working place 10 minutes.The rails seems to bee Ocke Mannerfelt stuff. see what you can find out.:sweden:

fysis
08-24-2010, 01:35 PM
Griz. Try this www.rocamarine.se (http://www.rocamarine.se) view" produkter a-o " go down to S =speed rails they even have instruktions and everything Mail them and let me know if they have what you want then i can buy them for you and send them over. The company is not far from my working place 10 minutes.The rails seems to bee Ocke Mannerfelt stuff. see what you can find out.:sweden: Griz. Spoke with ROCA marine today. They have the Volvo rails in stock. They designed them and they where sold in the US before ,however right now the donīt have distributor over there. So you can buy them direktly from them. If i buy them i have to go through a Watski dealer. They are in sets of 4 and there are to different sets. One for light boats up to around 2200lbs for about $ 130 and the longer ones for heavier boats are 2meters in lengt for around $ 260.:sweden:

BigGrizzly
08-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Thanks very much for the info. As soon as things get settled he with my Doctore I will call. hope they can speak English.

buncho
08-27-2010, 01:13 PM
Greetings,
A couple years back I bought a 2004 Anniversary Classic that had been upgraded by Joey Griffin.
525hp, Latham, planes, dash stalk indicators for trim/planes, Imco shorty with 28 pitch 4 blade Bravo prop, and Joey added 2 stakes to the hull that match the factory units about a foot either side of the keel, and slightly reshaped the bow (these boat hulls apparently hook a bit) amongst other goodies.
I know the prop was reworked/cupped several times while Joey was sorting the boat.
I'm not a young guy, and have had several retina surgeries over the past year, so I'm not too interested in seeing the boat's ultimate speed.
Most of the time, I'm comfortable cruising around in the sixties.
Fastest I've been, only once, was 82 gps tattletale, and the boat wasn't yet done. Don't know the rpm on that ride...I was too busy watching other stuff. The motor is now aproaching 50 hours and via computer readout has never exceeded 5000 rpm, in fact next to no time above 4500rpm.
I'm curious about your discussion.
The 4 blade prop has so much bite, that from standstill, you do not want
to apply the throttle too aggressively.
I'd prefer a bit less bite and don't mind loosing a bit of top end if required, but I'm thinking the motor ought to run to max rpm if pressed there.
Sounds like a 29p or 30p 3 blade prop may be a better combination for my particular use.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Ken

BigGrizzly
08-27-2010, 06:22 PM
525 hp is not enough for a 29 or 30. Road trip has more then 525 and and .
runs among others a 29. I have 710 and a Konrad and run a 29 at above mid 80s

fysis
08-30-2010, 12:02 PM
Thanks very much for the info. As soon as things get settled he with my Doctore I will call. hope they can speak English.
Griz. If you want i can buy them for you since one of the suppliers have oppened close to me "Erlandssons Brygga" Then i just UPS them over to you . You wanted the long ones right. 4 peaces at 2 meters. Let me know . :sweden:

yeller
08-30-2010, 01:43 PM
525 hp is not enough for a 29 or 30. Road trip has more then 525 and and .
runs among others a 29. I have 710 and a Konrad and run a 29 at above mid 80sBG, I'm sure 525 is the max my engine puts out and a 29 M+ is what I was running. I also ran a 28 Tempest + that I was told was tweaked to a 29. I would spin these to 5000~5100rpm.

BigGrizzly
08-30-2010, 09:13 PM
Did you have a shorty or a std Bravo. Reason being I have more then 700HP and a Trs then Konrad and turn a 29 txp at 5200 to 5500 Tripper has a powerfull motor and turns a 29 also. regardless i am impressed with your speed. So goes the drive needs to be higher to work weillissue

zelatore
08-31-2010, 12:44 AM
I'm thinking that 'at the crank' Yeller is over 525.

Procharger claims between 550 and 625 hp depening on if Glen started with an HO or standard 8.1. Factor in some advertising inflation, and you still likely end up over 525. The numbers and props he's turning tend to bear that out as well.

Oh wait - did I just tear a hole in somebody's sandbag? I didn't mean to... :angel:

BigGrizzly
08-31-2010, 09:22 AM
Griz. If you want i can buy them for you since one of the suppliers have oppened close to me "Erlandssons Brygga" Then i just UPS them over to you . You wanted the long ones right. 4 peaces at 2 meters. Let me know . :sweden:
Fysis, I would like that, but i am going to be out of c commission for a while. i will get back with you when i feel better. yes i want the long ones since the boat ia 3700 pounds

BigGrizzly
08-31-2010, 10:00 AM
I cannot remember is this procharged? If it is, it is a different story. My sand bag is lealing, must have run aground.

zelatore
08-31-2010, 04:30 PM
I cannot remember is this procharged? If it is, it is a different story. My sand bag is lealing, must have run aground.

Yeah, Glen's running a Procharger. I don't know which model off the top off my head, but it's there. Back when he was having the bad porpoising problems I was shocked that I could run with him with my stock 502. Then he got it sorted out and he's been going faster ever since.

yeller
08-31-2010, 10:07 PM
Did you have a shorty or a std Bravo. Reason being I have more then 700HP and a Trs then Konrad and turn a 29 txp at 5200 to 5500 Tripper has a powerfull motor and turns a 29 also. regardless i am impressed with your speed. So goes the drive needs to be higher to work weillissueThat is with a Bravo1x.

yeller
08-31-2010, 10:08 PM
I cannot remember is this procharged? If it is, it is a different story. My sand bag is lealing, must have run aground.My HO is procharged.
And the original thread question is for a 502 procharged.

BigGrizzly
09-01-2010, 10:17 AM
Procharger explains it. A28 or 29 is the best option. Now ZEL said you are faster so I would go with the 29, maybe a 30???. 3 blade. thisputs you in the 86 to 88 mph ball park with a deep drive ie, not a shorty. Dam it just be careful up there and ALWAYS wear a life jacket.

zelatore
09-01-2010, 12:54 PM
Griz....you gotta read the board more! Glen's done went and found himself a blackhawk to play with...:yes:

With some tweeking, he'll be knocking on the door of 90. Right out of the box he was 86 (?)

yeller
09-01-2010, 02:10 PM
I think I sideswiped the thread. :lookaroun: It's not about me, but our engines should have similar power:


I recently purchased a 1996 22 classic with a 502 procharger, however I think I need to change the pitch of the prop. Current prop is a Bravo 4 Blade with a 32 pitch. I'm currenlty able to run it to 4100RPM with a top speed of 75mph. The prop has a couple of small nick's in it so I sure I'm loosing a couple of 100's. I have checked the timing and fuel pressure both are within spec with this set up. I'm thinking of going down to a 30 or 29. Any comments will be appreciated.

Myself, I would go lower than a 30. I ran a 28 Bravo, 27 Hydro Q4, and a couple 29 3 blades. I might have been able to use a 28 Q4, but I know a 30 would have been too big. 30 would have been the max I could spin in a 3 blade.

My advice: Beg or borrow as many props as you can before buying.......or look for great deals on used props so you can recoup your cost if you don't like it.

BigGrizzly
09-01-2010, 06:27 PM
Read the BH part I was answering the other part.

fysis
09-02-2010, 01:49 PM
Fysis, I would like that, but i am going to be out of c commission for a while. i will get back with you when i feel better. yes i want the long ones since the boat ia 3700 pounds
Just let me know when you wanīt me to send the things over. Hope you will bee 100% soon:sweden:

BigGrizzly
09-02-2010, 07:49 PM
thank you I will do that.