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superhatz
08-04-2010, 01:07 AM
Whelp...I rebuilt my first Holley. It's a 4160. It seemed easy enough...I took photos and was pretty careful.

After installing a new fuel pump, it fired right up and idled very nice for about a minuet. Then it slowly died....not to restart.

I pulled the bowl level plug and it was way high....so I adjusted it down and it still won't start. When I operate the throttle...no fuel squirts out...but the bowls are full of fuel.

It starts if I just pour a little fuel down the carb...

Any ideas??

Thanks!

:bonk:

Conquistador_del_mar
08-04-2010, 01:12 AM
Whelp...I rebuilt my first Holley. It's a 4160. It seemed easy enough...I took photos and was pretty careful.

After installing a new fuel pump, it fired right up and idled very nice for about a minuet. Then it slowly died....not to restart.

I pulled the bowl level plug and it was way high....so I adjusted it down and it still won't start. When I operate the throttle...no fuel squirts out...but the bowls are full of fuel.

It starts if I just pour a little fuel down the carb...

Any ideas??

Thanks!

:bonk:

Hi Aaron,
No help on the Holley except that it sounds like there is something more than just the accelerator pump not working. What ever happened to your fuel tank corrosion? Did you get it cleaned out? Bill

superhatz
08-04-2010, 01:17 AM
Yeah...I got the tank cleaned out. The Acetone worked well....then I let it dry and vacuumed the rest of the residue. I've got a clear filter temporarily fitted so I can see if I missed anything. The original fuel pump wasn't working so I got a new one while I'm waiting for rebuild parts...:)

The engine sounded great for the minuet it ran...nice and quiet. It had been sitting for about 10 years....I am hopeful!

Thanks,
Aaron

Dr. David Fleming
08-04-2010, 04:59 AM
The 4160 is fairly straight forward. Fuel supply by pressure to the bowl. Fuel is then drawn on demand by vacume into the engine. Accelerator pump is mechanical pressure when moved by the spring on the diaphram and flow through two check valves.

The main fuel draw is though the distribution nozzles in the the main barrels. There are small booster venturi on the end of these nozzels. You should be able to locate the entrance of the fuel passage into these booster nozzles as it is located on the gasket surface where the fuel metering block attaches to the main carburator body. Blow air or carb cleaner through these openings and see if they are open.

Examine the main metering block the fuel goes from the float bowl through the main jets screwed into the bottom of the fuel block. You can remove the main jets there is a space behind them that constitutes a well. This is where the idle mixture screws also control the fuel drawn into the idle circuit. Check the flow from this main jet well up to the openings that connect to the booster nozzle openings in the side of the carburator body these should all be free of obstruction with air or carb cleaner. Also the gaskets need to seal these passages for vacume to form and draw the fuel - make sure you have the correct gaskets with all the holes where they should be. A number of air bleeds are located on the carburator body. These air bleeds feed air into the idle circuit and into the main nozzles they are small and prevent the fuel from forming a syphon and flowing when the engine stops. Make sure all these air bleeds are open.

The accelerator pump circuit has a cam on the throttle which is plastic and can be moved to two positions by removing a screw. Basically there are two check valves. One allows the fuel to flow into the pump chamber the other allows it to flow out and no air to return from the accelerator pump nozzle back into the pump chamber. These are small ball bearings or rubber flap valves. Two gaskets are under the screw that holds the accelerator pump nozzle into the carb body. All this needs to be vacume sealed.

The Holly was a good racing carburator. It was designed by legendary Chevy tuner Smokey Yunick who owned an auto repair and development facility in Daytona Beach. Holly was made in Detroit at the plant on 9 Mile Road and Hoover Road. It was simple to take apart and get access to all the systems and a great variety of parts were available. The 4160 was very streamline and flowed a lot of air so it made good power. Its primary disadvantage was that the fuel metering blocks were vertical and the cork gaskets would dry out and leak fuel and air. This was a fire hazard and a constant maintance head ache.

The primary competition for Holly was the Carter AFB/AVS which was more difficult to modify but all the fuel leaking surfaces were horizontal. Both carburators were the best of American designs and were used by Ford, GM and Chrysler for high performance. GM eventually designed a cheaper in house carburator which was the Rochester and Ford had a Holly clone with horizontal gaskets which was their own make. Both these were inferior.

Holly always was the big horsepower racing carb. Mercury adopted it along with the GM engines that powered its Mercruiser line.

Chrysler always had great service literature on how to do Holly repair and you should be able to access it in any of their old service literature. I used to be a Chrysler mechanic when I was in college and used to knock off the 4160 fairly quickly - you just had to know what to look for.

BUIZILLA
08-04-2010, 10:07 AM
is the bowl gasket on backwards and the squirter hole blocked?

Nmbr1GMfan
08-04-2010, 10:08 AM
Metering block gaskets on backwards? (Damn holeshot by Buizilla)

CAPTBEACH
08-04-2010, 10:10 AM
Couple of people beat me to it...Accelerator pump or metering gasket...or trash in your main...

maddad
08-04-2010, 10:52 AM
:lol9:
Metering block gaskets on backwards? (Damn holeshot by Buizilla)
holeshot

Cuda
08-04-2010, 11:45 AM
I believe Holley makes two different accelerator pumps. I don't remember if it's possible to install it backwards or not.

superhatz
08-04-2010, 03:53 PM
Thanks guys!...I'm on it!

superhatz
08-04-2010, 07:41 PM
Triple checked the gaskets...they really only go on one way.

Do I have the wrong base gasket on?...

Why did it run so well for a minuet?

:nilly:

Nmbr1GMfan
08-04-2010, 08:23 PM
If you pour fuel into the carb and it runs its obviously not getting fuel. pull the bowl sight plugs and turn it over to make sure the adjustment is correct. Its not getting fuel.

MOP
08-04-2010, 09:08 PM
Hold the choke shut and crank it check to see if the bores are wet, it may even fire off and run with the help of the choke that will atleast let you know that fuel is flowing. If I remember right the 4160 still had ball check instead of the newer umbrella check valve, if you inadvertently left the ball out that would do it.

BUIZILLA
08-04-2010, 09:54 PM
I pulled the bowl level plug and it was way high....so I adjusted it down and it still won't start. When I operate the throttle...no fuel squirts out...but the bowls are full of fuel.
the primary needle is probably stuck in the seat...

superhatz
08-04-2010, 11:03 PM
The bowls are full of fuel...about the right amount. The check ball seems free...not stuck....I never had that out.

Carb is back on and still nothing...:(

hdsadey
08-04-2010, 11:35 PM
How gummed up was the carb when you pulled it apart? If the accel pump isn't working then it's possible you knocked something loose and plugged them up along with the jets. Except for the accel pump a carb works solely on vacuum, not like fuel injection which can pass a blockage with pressure. Fuel pump for carb only should produce 5 to 7 psi.

hdsadey
08-04-2010, 11:38 PM
BTW if you can find a buddy with an ultrasonic cleaner the bubble action will knock the old garbage loose and can be blown out with an air gun. Carb cleaner has little to no effect on the stale fuel, at least not the new ethanol fuels.

mrfixxall
08-04-2010, 11:46 PM
wrong metering block gasket,body to block? did you put the little orange rubber piece under the accelator pump? metering rod under the squirter ?

superhatz
08-04-2010, 11:51 PM
BTW if you can find a buddy with an ultrasonic cleaner the bubble action will knock the old garbage loose and can be blown out with an air gun. Carb cleaner has little to no effect on the stale fuel, at least not the new ethanol fuels.

Yeah...it was pretty crappy. I think I'll take it all apart again and have it ultra sonic-ed.

Metering rod under squirter??

Sorry for the trouble guys...I'm determined to do this.

:crossfing:

mrfixxall
08-05-2010, 12:44 AM
Metering rod under squirter??



their is a squirter in the venturys,its held in with a phillips screw...under that screw theirs a 1/8'' round//// 1/2'' long tiny rod with a point on it..
did you remove it when you did the rebuild?? ther will also stich in the bore from tarnish.. if thats not in their it wont let the accelerator build pressure..its acts like a one way check valve..

motorcity
08-05-2010, 12:50 AM
You may want to check craigslist for someone to do the ultrasonic cleaning. their are a couple of people that advertise on it in my area.

superhatz
08-05-2010, 12:56 AM
Metering rod under squirter??



their is a squirter in the venturys,its held in with a phillips screw...under that screw theirs a 1/8'' round//// 1/2'' long tiny rod with a point on it..
did you remove it when you did the rebuild?? ther will also stich in the bore from tarnish.. if thats not in their it wont let the accelerator build pressure..its acts like a one way check valve..

Interesting...no, I didn't see the rod....I'll check it out.

superhatz
08-05-2010, 12:57 AM
You may want to check craigslist for someone to do the ultrasonic cleaning. their are a couple of people that advertise on it in my area.

The machine shop next door to me has a new machine....:)

Dr. David Fleming
08-05-2010, 01:13 AM
The item under the squirter is not a metering rod, it is a check valve to prevent air from going in the accelerator pump when it fills. This just shuts by gravity and allows the fuel to lift it when the pump works. Don't leave it out.

In my previous post I forgot to mention the Holly power valve screwed into the center of the metering block. This is a vacume diaphram on one side that is open to the manifold the other side of the diaphram is a power enrichment valve that bypasses the main jets and in effect richens the mixture. These power valves come in a variety of sizes to allow different mixtures and are known to blow out. They are usually included in a replacement kit but may not be the correct size. Each valve has a capacity marked on the side and uses a round gasket.

Holly also made two float bowls the prefered is the "center pivot" float bowl which has the externally adjustable float level and a sight plug to check in the side of the bowl. The other float bowl was a side pivot and was used on most passenger car applications. The advantage of the side pivot was you could put two four barrel carbs on one engine for "duel quad" setup. Ford did this from the factory on the famous 427 side oiler engines in the 1960's. I am sure there are a few of these in Donzi.

Holly metering blocks - there are two types of metering blocks. The ones we have been talking about are the thick primary type blocks with idle mix screws in the side and a power valve in the center. Some Holly 4150/4160 carburators had a thin metering block that was used in the secondary side of the carburator and was held in by a couple of "clutch head screws" this took a special screwdriver and most of the jetting was drilled and not adjustable. Carburators that had this thin secondary fuel metering block usually had vacume operated rear barrels. This means that the throttle only opened the primary barrels of the carburator. A big casting on the side of the carburator held a rubber diaphram that would pull open the secondary barrels when the vacume in the inake manifold dropped and would allow. This secondary barrel opening could be adjusted by changing the spring inside the vacume chamber. There was a small rod connecting the primary and secondary barrels but this was just to make sure they shut it had nothing do to with the opening.

Holly Double Pumper carburator. This was created out of the 415/4160 to give racers the full manual control of both primary and secondary barrels. Holly modified the carb to have full mechanical linkage opening both sides and it had two accelerator pump circuits one on each side, two thick metering blocks with two power valves. I believe it had only one choke on the primary side.

One very rare and exciting Holly 4150/4160 was created and sold to the public back in the 1960's. Wish I still had mine, this was the famous Holly Three Barrel - a real race carb used at NASCAR - The rear barrels were made into one huge oval rear barrel and it had a special choke on the front primary set. A huge vacume chamber was used. This monster flowed 950 cubic feet per minute of air. The big 4160 only flowed 850 cfm and most flowed a lot less. Holly made them with different size barrels and venturi all the way from 500 cfm to the 850 cfm. I think the most popular was the 780 cfm used on small block Chevy. Big Block Chevy liked the 850 cfm - not a lot of engines could use this big carb and most made better power on a smaller Holly.

Holly also cut the 4150/4160 in half and made the worlds greatest two barrel carb. Three in a row were used on the Chrysler 440 Six Pack setup. And the Big Block Chevy Corvette 427 engine in 1970. The Six Pack set up used one carb in the middle as a primary and the outer two were just vacume operated secondary carbs that cut in when manifold vacume was low and the throttle was open. Very nice in street driving. Hot rod shops did sell a full mechanical conversion.

One of my good friends Bob Hatcher from Drayton Plains, MI was an engineer at Holly. He used to tell me, "Dave, you get that dam Six Pack set up to run as good as you can, and then come over to Holly and i will give you a 4150/4160 four barrel that will run twice as fast." He was right the big four barrel was never beat in racing and is better than many Mercruiser fuel injections setups.

A good carburator mechanic could fix it in a heartbeat.

mrfixxall
08-05-2010, 01:16 AM
The item under the squirter is not a metering rod, it is a check valve to prevent air from going in the accelerator pump when it fills. This just shuts by gravity and allows the fuel to lift it when the pump works. Don't leave it out.

In my previous post I forgot to mention the Holly power valve screwed into the center of the metering block. This is a vacume diaphram on one side that is open to the manifold the other side of the diaphram is a power enrichment valve that bypasses the main jets and in effect richens the mixture. These power valves come in a variety of sizes to allow different mixtures and are known to blow out. They are usually included in a replacement kit but may not be the correct size. Each valve has a capacity marked on the side and uses a round gasket.

Holly also made two float bowls the prefered is the "center pivot" float bowl which has the externally adjustable float level and a sight plug to check in the side of the bowl. The other float bowl was a side pivot and was used on most passenger car applications. The advantage of the side pivot was you could put two four barrel carbs on one engine for "duel quad" setup. Ford did this from the factory on the famous 427 side oiler engines in the 1960's. I am sure there are a few of these in Donzi.

Holly metering blocks - there are two types of metering blocks. The ones we have been talking about are the thick primary type blocks with idle mix screws in the side and a power valve in the center. Some Holly 4150/4160 carburators had a thin metering block that was used in the secondary side of the carburator and was held in by a couple of "clutch head screws" this took a special screwdriver and most of the jetting was drilled and not adjustable. Carburators that had this thin secondary fuel metering block usually had vacume operated rear barrels. This means that the throttle only opened the primary barrels of the carburator. A big casting on the side of the carburator held a rubber diaphram that would pull open the secondary barrels when the vacume in the inake manifold dropped and would allow. This secondary barrel opening could be adjusted by changing the spring inside the vacume chamber. There was a small rod connecting the primary and secondary barrels but this was just to make sure they shut it had nothing do to with the opening.

Holly Double Pumper carburator. This was created out of the 415/4160 to give racers the full manual control of both primary and secondary barrels. Holly modified the carb to have full mechanical linkage opening both sides and it had two accelerator pump circuits one on each side, two thick metering blocks with two power valves. I believe it had only one choke on the primary side.

One very rare and exciting Holly 4150/4160 was created and sold to the public back in the 1960's. Wish I still had mine, this was the famous Holly Three Barrel - a real race carb used at NASCAR - The rear barrels were made into one huge oval rear barrel and it had a special choke on the front primary set. A huge vacume chamber was used. This monster flowed 950 cubic feet per minute of air. The big 4160 only flowed 850 cfm and most flowed a lot less. Holly made them with different size barrels and venturi all the way from 500 cfm to the 850 cfm. I think the most popular was the 780 cfm used on small block Chevy. Big Block Chevy liked the 850 cfm - not a lot of engines could use this big carb and most made better power on a smaller Holly.

Holly also cut the 4150/4160 in half and made the worlds greatest two barrel carb. Three in a row were used on the Chrysler 440 Six Pack setup. And the Big Block Chevy Corvette 427 engine in 1970. The Six Pack set up used one carb in the middle as a primary and the outer two were just vacume operated secondary carbs that cut in when manifold vacume was low and the throttle was open. Very nice in street driving. Hot rod shops did sell a full mechanical conversion.

One of my good friends Bob Hatcher from Drayton Plains, MI was an engineer at Holly. He used to tell me, "Dave, you get that dam Six Pack set up to run as good as you can, and then come over to Holly and i will give you a 4150/4160 four barrel that will run twice as fast." He was right the big four barrel was never beat in racing and is better than many Mercruiser fuel injections setups.

A good carburator mechanic could fix it in a heartbeat.



No chit about the needle,do you know anything about split dominators???!! nice copy and past article..

Btw 427 was long gony by 1970.

HOWARD O
08-05-2010, 02:19 AM
The item under the squirter is not a metering rod, it is a check valve to prevent air from going in the accelerator pump when it fills. This just shuts by gravity and allows the fuel to lift it when the pump works. Don't leave it out.

In my previous post I forgot to mention the Holly power valve screwed into the center of the metering block. This is a vacume diaphram on one side that is open to the manifold the other side of the diaphram is a power enrichment valve that bypasses the main jets and in effect richens the mixture. These power valves come in a variety of sizes to allow different mixtures and are known to blow out. They are usually included in a replacement kit but may not be the correct size. Each valve has a capacity marked on the side and uses a round gasket.

Holly also made two float bowls the prefered is the "center pivot" float bowl which has the externally adjustable float level and a sight plug to check in the side of the bowl. The other float bowl was a side pivot and was used on most passenger car applications. The advantage of the side pivot was you could put two four barrel carbs on one engine for "duel quad" setup. Ford did this from the factory on the famous 427 side oiler engines in the 1960's. I am sure there are a few of these in Donzi.

Holly metering blocks - there are two types of metering blocks. The ones we have been talking about are the thick primary type blocks with idle mix screws in the side and a power valve in the center. Some Holly 4150/4160 carburators had a thin metering block that was used in the secondary side of the carburator and was held in by a couple of "clutch head screws" this took a special screwdriver and most of the jetting was drilled and not adjustable. Carburators that had this thin secondary fuel metering block usually had vacume operated rear barrels. This means that the throttle only opened the primary barrels of the carburator. A big casting on the side of the carburator held a rubber diaphram that would pull open the secondary barrels when the vacume in the inake manifold dropped and would allow. This secondary barrel opening could be adjusted by changing the spring inside the vacume chamber. There was a small rod connecting the primary and secondary barrels but this was just to make sure they shut it had nothing do to with the opening.

Holly Double Pumper carburator. This was created out of the 415/4160 to give racers the full manual control of both primary and secondary barrels. Holly modified the carb to have full mechanical linkage opening both sides and it had two accelerator pump circuits one on each side, two thick metering blocks with two power valves. I believe it had only one choke on the primary side.

One very rare and exciting Holly 4150/4160 was created and sold to the public back in the 1960's. Wish I still had mine, this was the famous Holly Three Barrel - a real race carb used at NASCAR - The rear barrels were made into one huge oval rear barrel and it had a special choke on the front primary set. A huge vacume chamber was used. This monster flowed 950 cubic feet per minute of air. The big 4160 only flowed 850 cfm and most flowed a lot less. Holly made them with different size barrels and venturi all the way from 500 cfm to the 850 cfm. I think the most popular was the 780 cfm used on small block Chevy. Big Block Chevy liked the 850 cfm - not a lot of engines could use this big carb and most made better power on a smaller Holly.

Holly also cut the 4150/4160 in half and made the worlds greatest two barrel carb. Three in a row were used on the Chrysler 440 Six Pack setup. And the Big Block Chevy Corvette 427 engine in 1970. The Six Pack set up used one carb in the middle as a primary and the outer two were just vacume operated secondary carbs that cut in when manifold vacume was low and the throttle was open. Very nice in street driving. Hot rod shops did sell a full mechanical conversion.

One of my good friends Bob Hatcher from Drayton Plains, MI was an engineer at Holly. He used to tell me, "Dave, you get that dam Six Pack set up to run as good as you can, and then come over to Holly and i will give you a 4150/4160 four barrel that will run twice as fast." He was right the big four barrel was never beat in racing and is better than many Mercruiser fuel injections setups.

A good carburator mechanic could fix it in a heartbeat.

How helpful is it to this guy to hear a whole dissertation on the history of Holley carbs? He wants his to run! Furthermore, you'd think after seeing so many Holley carbs you'd know how to spell Holley? Pretty bizzare postings there, Doc. :confused:

Barry Eller
08-05-2010, 07:34 AM
No chit about the needle,do you know anything about split dominators???!! nice copy and past article..

Btw 427 was long gony by 1970.

How helpful is it to this guy to hear a whole dissertation on the history of Holley carbs? He wants his to run! Furthermore, you'd think after seeing so many Holley carbs you'd know how to spell Holley? Pretty bizzare postings there, Doc. :confused:

If you ask him the time...he will tell you how the watch is made.:nilly:

Cuda
08-05-2010, 08:59 AM
The power valve is only in use when under accerleration. I had holleys on my Formula and anytime it back fired it would blow the power valve. I carried several in the glove compartment. It would still idle and run well unless you were under heavy accerelation. On the Formula with the Kaama drives I had tp firewall the throttles to get on a plane.

Dr. David Fleming
08-06-2010, 11:40 PM
My office is near Holly, Michigan - Holley Carburator Co. was started in Holly, Michigan one of he suburbs of Flint, MI. Another local town is Rochester. Did you know August Champion started Champion Sparkplug Co and then AC Sparkplug which bears his initials - the logo for AC - whatever. I stand corrected on the Holley spelling.

superhatz
08-11-2010, 02:07 AM
So...after a thorough cleaning (of the carb) by the machine shop, I got the engine to run...but it runs like hell.

I can keep it running with some throttle...long enough to adjust float level. If I close the throttle, it dies.

If I close the choke it runs much smoother and the RPMs come up....but closing the throttle...it still dies. Do the secondary throttle plates need to be open a bit?...for it to idle?

Any pointers on where to start?

I appreciate the help guys...:yes:

Thanks,
Aaron

Conquistador_del_mar
08-11-2010, 02:52 AM
So...after a thorough cleaning (of the carb) by the machine shop, I got the engine to run...but it runs like hell.

I can keep it running with some throttle...long enough to adjust float level. If I close the throttle, it dies.

If I close the choke it runs much smoother and the RPMs come up....but closing the throttle...it still dies. Do the secondary throttle plates need to be open a bit?...for it to idle?

Any pointers on where to start?

I appreciate the help guys...:yes:

Thanks,
Aaron

Aaron,
Maybe this video will help. Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUrCP_KPLYY

CHACHI
08-11-2010, 06:24 AM
Did you know August Champion started Champion Sparkplug Co and then AC Sparkplug which bears his initials - the logo for AC - whatever.

I thought it was Albert Champion.

Ken

Barry Eller
08-11-2010, 06:39 AM
I thought it was Albert Champion.

Ken

I checked and you are correct Ken. The professor must have been thinking of August Busch...or at least drinking one of his products...:drinkbeer:

Aaron, I hope you get the carb working.

Cuda
08-11-2010, 08:19 AM
I checked and you are correct Ken. The professor must have been thinking of August Busch...or at least drinking one of his products...:drinkbeer:
Aaron, I hope you get the carb working.
I partied at Augie Busch's house on St Pete Beach. Augie wasn't there, but Miss Budweiser was. :)

Barry Eller
08-11-2010, 08:55 AM
I partied at Augie Busch's house on St Pete Beach. Augie wasn't there, but Miss Budweiser was. :)
:hijack: Sorry...Cool...was there any Heineken or Guinness being served? What year Miss Budweiser...I was always a bigger fan of the piston engine era. The sound of those V-12 Allison and Rolls Royce...music...

Nmbr1GMfan
08-11-2010, 09:08 AM
Are you sure you don't have a vacuum leak?

HOWARD O
08-11-2010, 09:23 AM
I partied at Augie Busch's house on St Pete Beach. Augie wasn't there, but Miss Budweiser was. :)


I just wanna know if they let you take Miss Budweiser for a test drive? :yes:

Cuda
08-11-2010, 12:16 PM
:hijack: Sorry...Cool...was there any Heineken or Guinness being served? What year Miss Budweiser...I was always a bigger fan of the piston engine era. The sound of those V-12 Allison and Rolls Royce...music...
I don't remember what beer was there. Ms Budweiser was not a hydo.

superhatz
08-11-2010, 01:41 PM
Are you sure you don't have a vacuum leak?

Sure seems like it but I don't see where?....*shrug*.

dsparis
08-11-2010, 01:56 PM
Throw the Holley in the water and buy a Carter afb.

Nmbr1GMfan
08-11-2010, 03:08 PM
Im in Sarasota, FL. If I were close I would come look at it for you.

joseph m. hahnl
08-11-2010, 03:53 PM
Could be a defective fuel pump. I converted a Pro Comp for marine use.
I idled it for about 30 seconds and the tip of the actuator broke off.
When a Holly gets contamination in the fuel bowl meter valve,it will drip raw fuel through the primary and secondary trucks, depending on which float is stuck open. globs "drops" of un-atomized fuel will make it run really rough.
The primary plate does need to be open, but you don't want it opened past the transfer slots at the bottom of the venturi bore. The accelerator pump should have variable positions to adjust the plunger height.
Keep in mind if it is running in the lean condition it can back fire through the carburetor causing a fire or blowing out the power valve.

Cuda
08-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Could be a defective fuel pump. I converted a Pro Comp for marine use.
I idled it for about 30 seconds and the tip of the actuator broke off.
When a Holly gets contamination in the fuel bowl meter valve,it will drip raw fuel through the primary and secondary trucks, depending on which float is stuck open. globs "drops" of un-atomized fuel will make it run really rough.
The primary plate does need to be open, but you don't want it opened past the transfer slots at the bottom of the venturi bore. The accelerator pump should have variable positions to adjust the plunger height.
Keep in mind if it is running in the lean condition it can back fire through the carburetor causing a fire or blowing out the power valve.
That's the problem I had with the Formula. It had a weak fuel pump and would backfire blowing out the power valve.

Barry Eller
08-12-2010, 05:44 AM
Just a thought...my fuel pump gets 2 signals...one in the cranking mode and then from the oil pressure switch. The oil pressure switch went out on my engine and the cranking of the engine would put enough fuel in the carb to run about 30 seconds...then it would die. I replaced my oil pressure switch to fuel pump and it cured my problem.

Dr. David Fleming
08-12-2010, 01:33 PM
Superhatz - well congrats for sticking to your project this long! Here is a couple of do and dont's with carbs.

There are a couple of approaches to your project - first is mechanical integrity - look over all the parts - for any kind of tampering and damage - examine them for warping - clogged passages - missing parts and assemblies - carb mechanics starts here.

Develop each system completely so it functions properly. A carburator consisits of 5 or six systems each has to function completely to work as a team. Here are a couple of systems.

Choke - main fuel supply to both fuel bowls - main metering system - idle system - accelerator pump system - vacume secondary system - power fuel mix system.

Now each system has little parts and tricks that if not done right will screw up the whole deal.

Two other issues are - fuel system integrity and vacume integrity. The carburator works on vacume so anything you do to allow air leaks anywhere in the carburator or manifold will upset the whole machanism.

Couple of other unique do's and dont's - don't screw around with the floats - shake them to see if they have fuel inside and are no longer floats but sinkers - some early Holley solid fuel floats would eventually soak up fuel and be sinkers - this is kind of weird to find but you could tell if the carburator flooded no matter what the adjustment was and the float needle valve was not obstructed. Don't remove the screws that hold the throttle valves to the throttle shafts these are set at the factory in precision alignment and whatever you do them will screw up the fine relationship between them shutting and the idle system ports and slots. Don't remove the choke plate from the choke shaft if the screws come out later they will go into the engine.

Examine the throttle base of the carb with a machinest edge to see if it is warped - it will leak air and the gasket will not seal it. Vacume integrity of the barrels is essential for the fuel to draw out of the main nozzles and the idle system to work correctly.

If you get the Chrysler service for Holley - any mopar repair manual from the 60's and 70's - it has a trouble shooting chart for symptoms that tells Mr goodwrench where to begin with all kinds of weird carb performance malfunctions.

Another thing - about replacing carburators - if you get another designed for your engine - this will work - if you go generic you could get into a whole other world of "tuning the carb."

BBC used on Mercuiser was equiped with the 4150 Holley and the Carter AFB/AVS. This carb was manufactured by Webber in Italy. These are pretty easy to switch on. Your carb was designed by engineers who chose the bore size, venturi size, jet sizes, powervalve sizes, secondary spring size, and all of the air bleeds and vents.

Inside of the 4160 and AFB/AVS is a main fuel system that incorporates an "emusion tube". This is a series of air bleeds into the main fuel circuit that works with the supply of fuel from the main jet to mix and lean out the fuel mix for economy and performance purposes. It is difficult to duplicate the design systems of a factory carburator with an aftermarket replacement carb.

Carburators developed excellent power on marine engines but they were not as good at economy as the current fuel injection systems. Also they could be fixed with screwdriver and pliers whereas the electronic fuel injection takes a great deal of high tech equipment and has troubleshooting problems all its own.

You could also send your carb to someone like Tyler Crockett Marine Racing Engines - these guys have piles of old carbs and parts and know all the tricks. Get a spare carburator for your engine if you can - makes all this a lot easier.

HallJ
08-12-2010, 03:32 PM
Aaron,

I know a guy with a Magnum that has two Holley's on it. He took them apart and rebuilt them last year.
He lives about two miles from you. Maybe he could stop by and help you.........................In a couple of weeks. He's kind of an A-hole though.

Jeff

mrfixxall
08-12-2010, 04:02 PM
Superhatz - well congrats for sticking to your project this long! Here is a couple of do and dont's with carbs.

There are a couple of approaches to your project - first is mechanical integrity - look over all the parts - for any kind of tampering and damage - examine them for warping - clogged passages - missing parts and assemblies - carb mechanics starts here.

Develop each system completely so it functions properly. A carburator consisits of 5 or six systems each has to function completely to work as a team. Here are a couple of systems.

Choke - main fuel supply to both fuel bowls - main metering system - idle system - accelerator pump system - vacume secondary system - power fuel mix system.

Now each system has little parts and tricks that if not done right will screw up the whole deal.

Two other issues are - fuel system integrity and vacume integrity. The carburator works on vacume so anything you do to allow air leaks anywhere in the carburator or manifold will upset the whole machanism.

Couple of other unique do's and dont's - don't screw around with the floats - shake them to see if they have fuel inside and are no longer floats but sinkers - some early Holley solid fuel floats would eventually soak up fuel and be sinkers - this is kind of weird to find but you could tell if the carburator flooded no matter what the adjustment was and the float needle valve was not obstructed. Don't remove the screws that hold the throttle valves to the throttle shafts these are set at the factory in precision alignment and whatever you do them will screw up the fine relationship between them shutting and the idle system ports and slots. Don't remove the choke plate from the choke shaft if the screws come out later they will go into the engine.

Examine the throttle base of the carb with a machinest edge to see if it is warped - it will leak air and the gasket will not seal it. Vacume integrity of the barrels is essential for the fuel to draw out of the main nozzles and the idle system to work correctly.

If you get the Chrysler service for Holley - any mopar repair manual from the 60's and 70's - it has a trouble shooting chart for symptoms that tells Mr goodwrench where to begin with all kinds of weird carb performance malfunctions.

Another thing - about replacing carburators - if you get another designed for your engine - this will work - if you go generic you could get into a whole other world of "tuning the carb."

BBC used on Mercuiser was equiped with the 4150 Holley and the Carter AFB/AVS. This carb was manufactured by Webber in Italy. These are pretty easy to switch on. Your carb was designed by engineers who chose the bore size, venturi size, jet sizes, powervalve sizes, secondary spring size, and all of the air bleeds and vents.

Inside of the 4160 and AFB/AVS is a main fuel system that incorporates an "emusion tube". This is a series of air bleeds into the main fuel circuit that works with the supply of fuel from the main jet to mix and lean out the fuel mix for economy and performance purposes. It is difficult to duplicate the design systems of a factory carburator with an aftermarket replacement carb.

Carburators developed excellent power on marine engines but they were not as good at economy as the current fuel injection systems. Also they could be fixed with screwdriver and pliers whereas the electronic fuel injection takes a great deal of high tech equipment and has troubleshooting problems all its own.

You could also send your carb to someone like Tyler Crockett Marine Racing Engines - these guys have piles of old carbs and parts and know all the tricks. Get a spare carburator for your engine if you can - makes all this a lot easier.



and another book on a simple problem!

Barry Eller
08-12-2010, 06:02 PM
Dr. Fleming...may I ask what field your Doctors Degree is in? Just curious...

mrfixxall
08-12-2010, 06:18 PM
Dr. Fleming...may I ask what field your Doctors Degree is in? Just curious...


He may have somthing to do with DR Pepper soda pop!

Cuda
08-12-2010, 06:33 PM
Throw the Holley in the water and buy a Carter afb.
I fixed a Chebby pick up just the opposite way. I put on a Holley spread bore and threw the toilet bowl in the ditch.

Cuda
08-12-2010, 06:39 PM
Sure seems like it but I don't see where?....*shrug*.
Spray carb cleaner around the base. If you have a vacuum leak, the engine will rev up. I could always hear a vacuum leak, it's a whistling sound,

mrfixxall
08-12-2010, 06:54 PM
Spray carb cleaner around the base. If you have a vacuum leak, the engine will rev up. I could always hear a vacuum leak, it's a whistling sound,


I use propane,if the leak is big enough it will kill the engine but he has to get it to start first:)

superhatz
08-12-2010, 07:27 PM
C'mon guys...be nice to the Doc....he's just trying to help.

:)

Jeff...call me when you get done jetsetting and I'll let you help me...:nilly:

On second thought....Webers would look awesome!!!!!

HallJ
08-13-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm sure you could get Webers to work but the ones you have are all three barrels:nilly:

Jeff

smbarcelow
08-19-2010, 11:15 AM
Since I just finally got my Holley 750 double-pumper sorted out, I’ll weigh in with my two cents. Mine sits on top of a Chevy ZZ4 350 crate engine. When I started, the floats were set too high, the Power Valve was blown, it had .068” main and .080” secondary metering jets, .028” main and .031” secondary accelerator pump discharge nozzles, and 30 cc main and 50 cc accelerator pump diaphragms. I adjusted the floats, replaced the Power Valve with the same 6.5 Hg valve, replaced the accelerator pump discharge nozzles with .040” nozzles main and secondary, and installed a brown accelerator pump cam on the main side (it was blue). I don’t remember what cam is in the secondary…yellow, perhaps? Last night’s test drive was the first time the boat actually launched hard from a hole shot. Not knowing what you’re engine is, I don’t know if this info will be helpful, but mine was screaming for more fuel. Good luck!