Ply or Coosa?

[scippy]

The lower portion of my 27 sport's transom has rot. It was quite evident when I could scoop out pieces of wood with just my finger alone through the drain plug hole. Should there have been a protective sleeve? seems it would've been a prudent thing to do - nor - did I see any evidence that they protected the area with a resin. I'm leaning towards replacement of the transom with Marine ply with particular care in those before troubled area's, but even though Coosa is 3x's the cost it might be worth it in more ways than money. Any thoughts???

[Sweet Cheekz]

Hey Scippy
I had an hour conversation this week with one of the most respected boat builders ever about this exact thing in my 27 and he emphatically said marine grade plywood. That may create a stir from a few diehards here of "modern" materials but he uses some of the most high tech stuff out there and still does his trabsoms in wood He had lots of good reasons and he really does know what he'stalking about I'm redoing my whole transom and using wood
Parnell

[scippy]

P, I've heard that before to a certain extent, but even better still when a experienced builder has many newer materials before him & still prefers marine ply for the transom. Coosa board does seem to be more forgiving then plywood especially if it were in the area of my drain hole plug.......lol - My total transom thickness is 2" (3/8" FG shell followed by 1-1/2" plywood followed by 1/8" FG...........the outter layup is amazingly thick, no wonder these boats are so heavy!

[MOP]

My stringers and transom were done by a buddy who was the head glass guy at Hustler, plywood has superior adhesion to glass over the foams. He did go on to say that the real strength is in the laminate. When he did my transom he eliminated the KEY cause of rot, this was done by squaring off the bottom of the plywood then building up the plug area with solid glass. He said there was structural no reason what so ever to fill in the V area with wood, that all it did was make it liable to fail again, he also isolated the stringer wood from the transom wood. Reason being the moisture wicks from the transom into the stringers then slowly creeps forward, while you are at it check the stringers more than likely they are wet. Mine were wet up to just past the engine mounts, he cut them out about an other five feet until he got dry dust when cutting. Then installed doubled stringers, added bulkheads and transverses added maybe 100lbs of structural soundness to my 22.

[gcarter]

There may not be a reason to replace the entire transom.
Why don't you start by moving upwards from the drain area and see if it gets solid?
If the rot can be localized and removed, why replace the whole thing?
When you start cutting replacement pieces, use a penetrating epoxy, like System Three Clear Coat, on all the exposed end grain and it'll never rot again.
BTW, MOP's solution is very good.

[Sweet Cheekz]

MOP's story is almost exactly what I heard from my guy escpecially the stringers and transom suggestion
I like Georges idea too from a money, time and work standpoint if it can work My transom is so swisscheesed that there is no where left to drill any new holes. I have to replace the whole thing Scippy, do check it might be a nice suprise
Parnell

[Sweet Cheekz]

P, I've heard that before to a certain extent, but even better still when a experienced builder has many newer materials before him & still prefers marine ply for the transom. Coosa board does seem to be more forgiving then plywood especially if it were in the area of my drain hole plug.......lol - My total transom thickness is 2" (3/8" FG shell followed by 1-1/2" plywood followed by 1/8" FG...........the outter layup is amazingly thick, no wonder these boats are so heavy!

I just reread this. My guy said use two sheets 3/4" marine plywood with layers of glass on all three sides which jives with the thickness now Magnum did a really nice job of building boats back then. Just an observation that hopefully doesn't piss anyone off but they made their boats much more stout than Donzi at the time Course they were bigger also, just sayin
Parnell

[LKSD]

There may not be a reason to replace the entire transom.
Why don't you start by moving upwards from the drain area and see if it gets solid?
If the rot can be localized and removed, why replace the whole thing?
When you start cutting replacement pieces, use a penetrating epoxy, like System Three Clear Coat, on all the exposed end grain and it'll never rot again.
BTW, MOP's solution is very good.

I agree.. :)

[scippy]

My stringers and transom were done by a buddy who was the head glass guy at Hustler, plywood has superior adhesion to glass over the foams. He did go on to say that the real strength is in the laminate. When he did my transom he eliminated the KEY cause of rot, this was done by squaring off the bottom of the plywood then building up the plug area with solid glass. He said there was structural no reason what so ever to fill in the V area with wood, that all it did was make it liable to fail again.

MOP, Eliminating wood in this "KEY" area makes soooooooooo much sense now.............thanks for helping me not repeat a mistake!

George, I also like your idea to just replace what's rotten in the lower transom by moving upward & away from the drain, but I have 2
TRS cutouts and would likely replace with bravo's.........something I forgot didn't mention.
Also, regarding the layup to the drain plug area.........should I use alternating schedules of CSM & WR until thickness is achieved?

P, With the elimination of those "Gussets -or- tank stringers" I now can order tanks with a capacity of 70+ gallons each..........nice
gain's with not too much fuss.


Jamie, How's that TR running?

[gcarter]

[quote=scippy;573151]
Also, regarding the layup to the drain plug area.........should I use alternating schedules of CSM & WR until thickness is achieved?[quote]

You probably don't need to add more than 1/2" of 'glass.
Using only 1708 Knytex alternating the orientation between +/- 45* and 0*/90*, it wouldn't take very many courses to get there.
While you're at it, cut out the plywood in the area of the TRS cutouts. I think you could use a circular saw w/the blade very carefully positioned. Then it's easy to fill in the 'glass in the cutout area.
Do you guys know about cutting a plug of glass (like in the area of the drive cutout) and burning it?
If you do, when it burns out and cools, you can carefully take apart the various courses of glass and determine the original layup.
Good luck.

[scippy]

[quote=scippy;573151]
Also, regarding the layup to the drain plug area.........should I use alternating schedules of CSM & WR until thickness is achieved?[quote]

You probably don't need to add more than 1/2" of 'glass.
Using only 1708 Knytex alternating the orientation between +/- 45* and 0*/90*, it wouldn't take very many courses to get there.
While you're at it, cut out the plywood in the area of the TRS cutouts. I think you could use a circular saw w/the blade very carefully positioned. Then it's easy to fill in the 'glass in the cutout area.
Do you guys know about cutting a plug of glass (like in the area of the drive cutout) and burning it?
If you do, when it burns out and cools, you can carefully take apart the various courses of glass and determine the original layup.
Good luck.

George, In regards to filling in the TRS cutouts..........I think I understand, but not completely sure. Are you saying? "make a perimeter cut (from the inside) to the TRS cutouts & fill in this area w/fiberglass as you would have with wood? if that's the case, would a smaller bravo cutout within this patched hole be strong enough and not crack in the future?

[gcarter]

[quote=gcarter;573154][quote=scippy;573151]
Also, regarding the layup to the drain plug area.........should I use alternating schedules of CSM & WR until thickness is achieved?

George, In regards to filling in the TRS cutouts..........I think I understand, but not completely sure. Are you saying? "make a perimeter cut (from the inside) to the TRS cutouts & fill in this area w/fiberglass as you would have with wood? if that's the case, would a smaller bravo cutout within this patched hole be strong enough and not crack in the future?

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I meant cut away the wood around the TRS cutouts, and cut one large hole in the glass per drive. Actually, I think all you would have to do is remove the glass between the larger lower hole and the upper tiller slot. Grind and taper the perimeter of the drive hole to a ratio of 12:1 on the inside of the transom. Buy some melamine paneling from your favorite big box store, cut a piece slightly larger than the drive cutout including the ground tapered area, and screw the smooth side of the paneling to the outside of the transom. Use some #6 machine screws, or a similar size for through bolting the panel on. Use lots of screws, maybe 2" apart as you don't want anything to move. The resin will not stick to the paneling, and the paneling gives a very smooth surface to your patch.
This is where burning a sample becomes important. After you determine the original layup schedule from your burnt sample, starting w/a couple of layers of mat, make some patch pieces of glass that are slightly larger than the opening. Then each succeeding piece is to be slightly larger until the inside piece is the same size as the outside perimeter of the ground area.
After all these pieces are cut, you're almost ready to start. This method works so well you can even use matched, tinted gel for your first course. At least use a couple of coats of resin, if not gel. As soon as it starts to kick, start w/the mat. what ever you do, don't stop until you're finished. This whole layup process shouldn't take more than 5 minutes from start when the gel/resin kicks.
After the patch is cured (it'll get hot too since all the courses go on at once), carefully grind the inside so that the inside of the transom is level and smooth.
After this, you can patch the wood w/the new ply,
Coosa, or whatever.
Hope this helps to clarify.

[scippy]

[quote=scippy;573166][quote=gcarter;573154]

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I meant cut away the wood around the TRS cutouts, and cut one large hole in the glass per drive. Actually, I think all you would have to do is remove the glass between the larger lower hole and the upper tiller slot. Grind and taper the perimeter of the drive hole to a ratio of 12:1 on the inside of the transom. Buy some melamine paneling from your favorite big box store, cut a piece slightly larger than the drive cutout including the ground tapered area, and screw the smooth side of the paneling to the outside of the transom. Use some #6 machine screws, or a similar size for through bolting the panel on. Use lots of screws, maybe 2" apart as you don't want anything to move. The resin will not stick to the paneling, and the paneling gives a very smooth surface to your patch.
This is where burning a sample becomes important. After you determine the original layup schedule from your burnt sample, starting w/a couple of layers of mat, make some patch pieces of glass that are slightly larger than the opening. Then each succeeding piece is to be slightly larger until the inside piece is the same size as the outside perimeter of the ground area.
After all these pieces are cut, you're almost ready to start. This method works so well you can even use matched, tinted gel for your first course. At least use a couple of coats of resin, if not gel. As soon as it starts to kick, start w/the mat. what ever you do, don't stop until you're finished. This whole layup process shouldn't take more than 5 minutes from start when the gel/resin kicks.
After the patch is cured (it'll get hot too since all the courses go on at once), carefully grind the inside so that the inside of the transom is level and smooth.
After this, you can patch the wood w/the new ply,
Coosa, or whatever.
Hope this helps to clarify.

George, Thanks for taking me through it step by step, it's very clear now. Tomorrow or Monday I'll determine just how high the rot extends upward in the transom, hopefully I dodged a bullet.
Now to this other matter of burning a sample piece of (transom hull) fiberglass to determine the actual layup schedule?............I'm "almost" there on the visual end, but need a little help. Could
you take me through it one time..................................Thanks

[gcarter]

[quote=gcarter;573169][quote=scippy;573166]

George, Thanks for taking me through it step by step, it's very clear now. Tomorrow or Monday I'll determine just how high the rot extends upward in the transom, hopefully I dodged a bullet.
Now to this other matter of burning a sample piece of (transom hull) fiberglass to determine the actual layup schedule?............I'm "almost" there on the visual end, but need a little help. Could
you take me through it one time..................................Thanks

It's impossible to determine an existing layup schedule by looking at a piece of glass, so you have to do something to make it discernable.
Glass won't burn, but the resin will, so take a scrap (you need several square inches) of the existing glass and burn it. The resin will be consumed, leaving the glass layup schedule in plain view. It will smoke and stink.
Carefully take apart the layered glass w/tweezers or other useful tool. You'll be able to see mat, bidirectional stitchmat, roving, and cloth.
Write down what you find, something similar to your findings will be your new schedule.

[LKSD]

Jamie, How's that TR running?

It's not this year. I have been slowly taking it apart & freshening many things.. Hopefully I will get to enjoy it next summer.. :) Jamie

[Carl C]

[quote=gcarter;573169][quote=scippy;573166]

George, Thanks for taking me through it step by step, it's very clear now. Tomorrow or Monday I'll determine just how high the rot extends upward in the transom, hopefully I dodged a bullet.
Now to this other matter of burning a sample piece of (transom hull) fiberglass to determine the actual layup schedule?............I'm "almost" there on the visual end, but need a little help. Could
you take me through it one time..................................Thanks

George is awesome. He helped guide me through my engine room reinforcement project which I would have completely mucked up without his help! He knows his shi+!

[scippy]

I agree Carl, He teaches a great shop class! .......The little extra side bar stuff on layup determination is a nice tibit of information. CSI got nothing on George..LOL

[scippy]

Cut a pieces from inside the transom around the lower TRS cutouts to see how the core plywood looked. In the portside cutout, you can see where the wood color almost darkens to black compared to the starboard side cutout. Is this the early stage of rot? - because it really doesn't break up in your hand yet.

[gcarter]

Most boats wooden parts will get wet during their lifetime, but doesn't necessarily have anything to do w/rot. I remember my Minx stringers were wet, but solid, and also were dark. I let it dry for several weeks and they were very solid. But you do have to uncover the suspect areas to let them dry.
I wouldn't worry about what you see in those pictures.

[bertsboat]

like a home. They say don't refinance if you don't expect to live in the house for less that 5 years. IF YOU EXPECT TO LIVE THERE FOR MORE THAN 5 YEARS GO AHEAD AND REFI!!
If you expect to own your DONZI for less than 5 years then by all meand let it dry out and button up and go boating. BUT, IF YOU EXPECT TO OWN YOUR BOAT FOR A LONG TIME AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO OPEN IT UP AGAIN THEN DO IT RIGHT WITH FOAM!
Just my take, but what do I know? Just food for thought.
When you sell it that dark wood will be in your mind. You will be thinking (wonder if it is still black and if it has started to ROT OUT) but who cares, I am selling it.

[Carl C]

like a home. They say don't refinance if you don't expect to live in the house for less that 5 years. IF YOU EXPECT TO LIVE THERE FOR MORE THAN 5 YEARS GO AHEAD AND REFI!!
If you expect to own your DONZI for less than 5 years then by all meand let it dry out and button up and go boating. BUT, IF YOU EXPECT TO OWN YOUR BOAT FOR A LONG TIME AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO OPEN IT UP AGAIN THEN DO IT RIGHT WITH FOAM!
Just my take, but what do I know? Just food for thought.
When you sell it that dark wood will be in your mind. You will be thinking (wonder if it is still black and if it has started to ROT OUT) but who cares, I am selling it.

I don't think that line of thinking will go over well.... :nilly:

[gcarter]

As I've said many times before, seal all the end grain w/a thin penetrating epoxy like System Three Clear Coat and it will never absorb water again.
You can trust me on that.
Don't put the epoxy where you're going to layup anything w/ester resins, but in any and all cut outs, holes, etc.

http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/Clear-Coat-c14.htm

Also, everything you might have ever wanted to know about epoxy is available in their "Epoxy Book".
It's the best, most readable, publication on epoxy I've seen.

http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/m_published-literature.asp

[Sweet Cheekz]

like a home. They say don't refinance if you don't expect to live in the house for less that 5 years. IF YOU EXPECT TO LIVE THERE FOR MORE THAN 5 YEARS GO AHEAD AND REFI!!
If you expect to own your DONZI for less than 5 years then by all meand let it dry out and button up and go boating. BUT, IF YOU EXPECT TO OWN YOUR BOAT FOR A LONG TIME AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO OPEN IT UP AGAIN THEN DO IT RIGHT WITH FOAM!
Just my take, but what do I know? Just food for thought.
When you sell it that dark wood will be in your mind. You will be thinking (wonder if it is still black and if it has started to ROT OUT) but who cares, I am selling it.

The main problem with this statement is that if Scippy replaces his rotted wet wood in his "Donzi" he will be working on someone else's boat and they might get pissed.

Bert, are you a foam salesman? I can appreciate your opinion as much as the next guy but why do I always feel like you are the only one that knows anything about boat building? Although I am no expert and have never claimed to be one, I do consult with them and there are a few on this board, as well, who offer opinions in a manner that is not condescending even to us novices. Just curious, what do you know?
Parnell

[Sweet Cheekz]

George
Since I use vynlester everywhere when I glass I cover all the wood holes and cutouts with that In that case you are just saying to make sure there is no exposed wood correct. It seems like part of the problem with a lot of these boatsback then is that they cut or drilled holes and didnt seal them at all.
Parnell

[gcarter]

P, your solution is a good second best, and I'm sure that it works just fine.

The difference is, ester resins and wood have a problem w/adhesion that epoxy doesn't have.
Epoxy, because of its formulation, makes the best adhesive for wood there is, in fact, it's better than the old resoursenol glues.
But most importantly, the clear coat is extremely thin and penetrates easier and deeper than other material I've seen. I would compare it to 10W oil for viscosity. It has a long shelf life, at least over a year. What I do for holes is to buy PVC glue brushes, you know-the kind that screws onto the glue cans. Then when I'm sealing holes (I do as many as I can at once), I use a brush only once...they're cheap. Also they come in several sizes, from a 1/2" fur ball to pretty large diameter fur balls.

But most importantly, coat that wood w/something!

[scippy]

Most boats wooden parts will get wet during their lifetime, but doesn't necessarily have anything to do w/rot. I remember my Minx stringers were wet, but solid, and also were dark. I let it dry for several weeks and they were very solid. But you do have to uncover the suspect areas to let them dry.
I wouldn't worry about what you see in those pictures.

George, I'm going to open up the lower area of my transom from everything south of where the wood starts to get darker straight down to the bottom of the drain hole area where the wood was completely rotten. There didn't seem to be any type of protection thru the drain hole and probabely wicking moisture up to the lower TRS cutout's shown in the pics. I'm going to use your suggestion of squaring off and enlarge the TRS cutouts from the top tiller area square down to the bottom. I'll scarf the hole 12:1 then do the masonite form from the outside. I like your idea of using the coosa board or some simular composite for the core in the area of the drain hole plug. shouldn't there be some kind of "sleave" for the thru hole in the drain?.........I remember you making something for your TR and using a tool to flute the ends.

[gcarter]

Yes, I bought a brass sleeve, about 6" long (just to be sure), and a set of Moeller flanging dies.
Take a look;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50476&page=43

When you're ready and have a tube to install, send me a PM w/your address and I'll send it to you. It takes about 5 minutes.

[scippy]

like a home. They say don't refinance if you don't expect to live in the house for less that 5 years. IF YOU EXPECT TO LIVE THERE FOR MORE THAN 5 YEARS GO AHEAD AND REFI!!
If you expect to own your DONZI for less than 5 years then by all meand let it dry out and button up and go boating. BUT, IF YOU EXPECT TO OWN YOUR BOAT FOR A LONG TIME AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO OPEN IT UP AGAIN THEN DO IT RIGHT WITH FOAM!
Just my take, but what do I know? Just food for thought.
When you sell it that dark wood will be in your mind. You will be thinking (wonder if it is still black and if it has started to ROT OUT) but who cares, I am selling it.

Bert, It's a stretch, but I get your analogy......in any case, what's more true is, Restoring my Mag will be the sole reason for a Refi...... sheeeeeese! - No wonder my wife hates that I retired. LOL...

[scippy]

Yes, I bought a brass sleeve, about 6" long (just to be sure), and a set of Moeller flanging dies.
Take a look;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50476&page=43

When you're ready and have a tube to install, send me a PM w/your address and I'll send it to you. It takes about 5 minutes.

George, I knew you did someting like that.........That's really cool! .......Thanks, I wil get intouch.

[scippy]

The main problem with this statement is that if Scippy replaces his rotted wet wood in his "Donzi" he will be working on someone else's boat and they might get pissed.
Parnell

P, Ya know what really pisses me off now? ..I spent a good amount of $$ a few years back on a restoration, totally hands off on my part. Having done that, this here Mag project will no doubt be much much slower, but much much more gratifying when she's done .............I figure 3 years though.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Scippy I hear ya. My goal is the November 2012 key West Poker Run. Its going to be 90 and very humid here all week. Another week I won't be getting any grinding done Just too hot!
P

[scippy]

Finally a little break in the hot weather to get back to work on the transom. The only trace of rot I found in the transom was in the small area around the drain hole plug. (there was no sleeve or even a resin coating to the bare ply) good news moisture didn't wick upward which kept the rest of the transom dry. But, I had to remove most of the transom anyway (between the two outside stringers) It didn't seem practical to just fill in the large TRS cutouts especially after I squared them up it would only be a large replacement patch. I don't think a patch would hold well since I will be cutting a smaller Bravo within it. I decided to go beyound and replace most of the transom.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Hey Scippy
I had an hour conversation this week with one of the most respected boat builders ever about this exact thing in my 27 and he emphatically said marine grade plywood. That may create a stir from a few diehards here of "modern" materials but he uses some of the most high tech stuff out there and still does his trabsoms in wood He had lots of good reasons and he really does know what he'stalking about I'm redoing my whole transom and using wood
ParnellI agree on using wood and was that builder Pete of Douglas Marine / Skater ?:yes:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Finally a little break in the hot weather to get back to work on the transom. The only trace of rot I found in the transom was in the small area around the drain hole plug. (there was no sleeve or even a resin coating to the bare ply) good news moisture didn't wick upward which kept the rest of the transom dry. But, I had to remove most of the transom anyway (between the two outside stringers) It didn't seem practical to just fill in the large TRS cutouts especially after I squared them up it would only be a large replacement patch. I don't think a patch would hold well since I will be cutting a smaller Bravo within it. I decided to go beyound and replace most of the transom.

Scippy,
Great to see the progress. How thick is the glass in the transom? I think mine was right at 9/16" thick. It looks like one of the four exhaust hole plugs fell out. If it did, why not take out the other three and fill them while you are building up the TRS cutout holes before building up the new transom? If you stretch and tape some wax paper on the outside of the transom holes, you can then screw some backing pieces of plywood or masonite to form a flat surface to build up layers of fiberglass from the inside until you get the thickness the same as the rest of the transom. You would need to bevel the edges from the inside first and have multiple pieces of glass cut to slightly larger pieces which you can layer into place to fill those holes. When done, go back and grind the inside of the transom to a smooth surface before installing the new transom. The outside small screw holes that held the backing pieces can be filled with thickened resin and the outside sanded and prepped before rolling on a coat or two of gelcoat which can then be sanded to smooth before applying paint or pigmented gelcoat. Just passing along the way I have done many transom rebuilds - :yes: Bill

PS If you never want to take the chance of water damage due to the bilge drain hole, just build up nothing but layers of glass in the bottom 3 or so inches below the plywood transom pieces.

[Sweet Cheekz]

I agree on using wood and was that builder Pete of Douglas Marine / Skater ?:yes:

Hi Artie
It was. Give me a shout when you get a chance

Scippy Bill has good ideas and has been successful at it a few times Sound advice
Parnell

[scippy]

Scippy,
Great to see the progress. How thick is the glass in the transom? I think mine was right at 9/16" thick. It looks like one of the four exhaust hole plugs fell out. If it did, why not take out the other three and fill them while you are building up the TRS cutout holes before building up the new transom? If you stretch and tape some wax paper on the outside of the transom holes, you can then screw some backing pieces of plywood or masonite to form a flat surface to build up layers of fiberglass from the inside until you get the thickness the same as the rest of the transom. You would need to bevel the edges from the inside first and have multiple pieces of glass cut to slightly larger pieces which you can layer into place to fill those holes. When done, go back and grind the inside of the transom to a smooth surface before installing the new transom. The outside small screw holes that held the backing pieces can be filled with thickened resin and the outside sanded and prepped before rolling on a coat or two of gelcoat which can then be sanded to smooth before applying paint or pigmented gelcoat. Just passing along the way I have done many transom rebuilds - :yes: Bill

PS If you never want to take the chance of water damage due to the bilge drain hole, just build up nothing but layers of glass in the bottom 3 or so inches below the plywood transom pieces.

Bill,
They didn't fool around back then, did they?..........it's as equally thick as yours and what's really amaz'in is the amount of Glass they used to wrap the stringers. I cut the outboard stringer away from the transom today and the core was only 1/2" ply, but it was wrapped in atleast 1" of glass. "Crazy thick" I intend to cutout the remaining exhaust holes and laminate them in after I scarf the edges 12:1..............A quick question on applying the pre-cut pieces of cloth for filling in the exhaust holes and TRS cutouts. (From the inside) do I go large to small -or- small to large?.........I read somewhere it said, place the largest piece first to cover the full area of the scarf and work smaller as you go..............I'm using 1.5 oz mat and 24 oz roving w/poly resin - I like the idea of full glass in the small area of the drain plug something that was echoed here by a few pro's as well.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Bill,
They didn't fool around back then, did they?..........it's as equally thick as yours and what's really amaz'in is the amount of Glass they used to wrap the stringers. I cut the outboard stringer away from the transom today and the core was only 1/2" ply, but it was wrapped in atleast 1" of glass. "Crazy thick" I intend to cutout the remaining exhaust holes and laminate them in after I scarf the edges 12:1..............A quick question on applying the pre-cut pieces of cloth for filling in the exhaust holes and TRS cutouts. (From the inside) do I go large to small -or- small to large?.........I read somewhere it said, place the largest piece first to cover the full area of the scarf and work smaller as you go..............I'm using 1.5 oz mat and 24 oz roving w/poly resin - I like the idea of full glass in the small area of the drain plug something that was echoed here by a few pro's as well.

Scippy,
I always went with the smaller pieces to the larger pieces, but I really don't think it will matter as long as they all overlap by a little - it will be totally filled and the resin will provide the contact saturation area. When you lay in your first layer of glass over the entire area for the first piece of plywood, the repaired areas will then be sandwiched into place. Try not to over catalyze the resin or it will get very hot with that much thickness (9/16") in one application. Bill

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Hi Artie
It was. Give me a shout when you get a chance

Scippy Bill has good ideas and has been successful at it a few times Sound advice
Parnell Parn ,i will get with you sometime next week and have a great weekend .

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy,
I always went with the smaller pieces to the larger pieces, but I really don't think it will matter as long as they all overlap by a little - it will be totally filled and the resin will provide the contact saturation area. When you lay in your first layer of glass over the entire area for the first piece of plywood, the repaired areas will then be sandwiched into place. Try not to over catalyze the resin or it will get very hot with that much thickness (9/16") in one application. Bill Bill , not to be rude but it does matter because your layup is only as strong as your weakest link and you had it right using smaller pieces going to the larger ones staggering your layup and for excample if you you lay up two pices of glass on top of each other, all you get is one thick layer of glass with no structural strength other then one thick layer of glass .

[gcarter]

I'm using 1.5 oz mat and 24 oz roving w/poly resin - I like the idea of full glass in the small area of the drain plug something that was echoed here by a few pro's as well.

Of course you can use whatever you want to, but some 24 oz. 1708 Knytex bi-directional +/- 45* stitchmat will be MUCH stronger.
It's only $6.00/yard here;

http://www.mertons.com/Reinforcements/double_stitch.html

Keep in mind it's not woven, therefore the fibers are straight and not kinked like they are like roving. Also, w/all the rows of stitching that holds the material together, it's very easy to cut and fit the measured pieces.

Also, the transom is important, and the resin you use is very important for a good bond of your new layup to the old transom glass..
Merton's also offers Ashland vinylester resin at very good prices;

http://www.mertons.com/Epoxy/vinylester_resins/index.html

IMHO, filling in transom holes is no place to cut any corners, or take any chances on techniques.

[gcarter]

Hi Scippy;
Why don't you go back and read my post # 12?

[scippy]

Of course you can use whatever you want to, but some 24 oz. 1708 Knytex bi-directional +/- 45* stitchmat will be MUCH stronger.
It's only $6.00/yard here;

http://www.mertons.com/Reinforcements/double_stitch.html

Keep in mind it's not woven, therefore the fibers are straight and not kinked like they are like roving. Also, w/all the rows of stitching that holds the material together, it's very easy to cut and fit the measured pieces.

Also, the transom is important, and the resin you use is very important for a good bond of your new layup to the old transom glass..
Merton's also offers Ashland vinylester resin at very good prices;

http://www.mertons.com/Epoxy/vinylester_resins/index.html

IMHO, filling in transom holes is no place to cut any corners, or take any chances on techniques.

George,

So, I would only need one type of material (1708 kyntex) to do all the patching of the large TRS cutouts?...just layer upon layer until I reach the right 9/16" thickness? -or- do I still need Mat as the first patch piece going in?........I like the price of the vinylester. I'll order a 5 gallon pale to start with.....I have alot to do (Transom,TRS cutout, exhaust holes, cockpit sole) The 5 gals. of polyester was going to cost me the same price $220 all except for the shipping though. About storing it, cool & dry place?..........what's the shelf life?
Also, do I just thickened some vinylester resin as a fillet for the transom corner's as well as the transom stringers?.................I devoured post "12"

[gcarter]

Scippy, you can do the burn trick like I mentioned and duplicate the original schedule or just use 1708. The 1708 is probably stronger in the long run but it will take more courses than if roving was used in the original layup schedule.
It's very important to start w/a layer of gel in your hull color, or at least a couple of coats of resin and let it start to kick, then one course of mat.
The first course of 1708 Knytex has mat attached to one side, so that makes two courses of mat when you stick in your first piece of 1708.
The next course of 1708 will be rotated 45* so that the build up is always alternating between +/- 45* and 0*-90*.
Also the mat on the next course will be applied to the face of the preceeding course.
In other words, mat side face down on each course so there's a layer of mat between each course.
Since you don't know the original schedule, be sure and cut some extra pieces to make sure you have enough material to fill the void.
When everything is setting up quickly is not the time to stop and cut some more.
Your original layup is pretty thick, so your bevel will be about 6 1/2" wide (that's a LOT of grinding).
I would start fitting the first piece at about 1" larger (1/2" per side) and go up in 3/8"-1/2" increments (per side).
In fact, I'd start w/something small like an exhaust hole. That would give some experiance in an area where there's no torque or heavy loads.
I wish you well. Just like painting, everything depends on preporation.
Anyone can lay in the little pieces of 1708 Knytex, the key to success is having everything right.

[gcarter]

George,
. About storing it, cool & dry place?..........what's the shelf life?
Also, do I just thickened some vinylester resin as a fillet for the transom corner's as well as the transom stringers?.................I devoured post "12"

Cool storage is important. If cool enough, it might last a year.
As far as radii, I'd use this product;

http://www.mertons.com/Epoxy/polyester_Resins/putty.html

It'll save you some time.

[scippy]

Thanks George for all the valued info!......as you say, good prep is key to good results...............Tomorrow, Parnell will be coming here to NJ to spend the night before picking up the last of the 2 Magnums. maybe I'll throw in a scheduled "fiberglass burn" to parch the throat for some real cold ones...LOL!!

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy , if you were using Epoxy , say................Shell like skater uses or Plasco with a pot life of 126 min 's or more .....at 70 degree's you would be able to get 5-6- or 7 layers at one time mixing the resin with a little cabosil for a thicking agent to help prevent gravity from taking over and to tell you the truth Epoxy might cost more but has so many more options . strength , work time , and no stank .

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scibby after going over this entire thread depending on how far along you are with this project shoot me a PM with your phone number instead of typing ....... because advise is free !

[scippy]

[quote=scippy;573175][quote=gcarter;573169]

It's impossible to determine an existing layup schedule by looking at a piece of glass, so you have to do something to make it discernable.
Glass won't burn, but the resin will, so take a scrap (you need several square inches) of the existing glass and burn it. The resin will be consumed, leaving the glass layup schedule in plain view. It will smoke and stink.
Carefully take apart the layered glass w/tweezers or other useful tool. You'll be able to see mat, bidirectional stitchmat, roving, and cloth.
Write down what you find, something similar to your findings will be your new schedule.

George,

Did the burn test yesterday on a scrap piece of transom from the TRS cutout on my Mag sport, it was not so easy to determine each individual layer of CSM, but it was very easy to see and count 4 individual layers of WR in the total layup. I think layup schedule should be something like this, Gelcoat, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat, Roving & Roving, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat.
In the middle of all this I did find 2 Woven Roving back to back. Quite a layup schedule!........................9/16" fiberglass!

[gcarter]

[quote=gcarter;573180][quote=scippy;573175]

George,

Did the burn test yesterday on a scrap piece of transom from the TRS cutout on my Mag sport, it was not so easy to determine each individual layer of CSM, but it was very easy to see and count 4 individual layers of WR in the total layup. I think layup schedule should be something like this, Gelcoat, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat, Roving & Roving, 2 Mat, Roving, 2 Mat.
In the middle of all this I did find 2 Woven Roving back to back. Quite a layup schedule!........................9/16" fiberglass!

That's pretty impressive!
Now you have the choice of duplicating what you found, or using Knytex.
The Knytex will be stronger, and in a patch, you want as much strength as you can get. That's not to say you can't use a couple of courses of
38 oz. WR stitchmat: http://www.mertons.com/Reinforcements/stitchmat.html
on the inside final courses.
The thing I hate about what you're doing is all the grinding. :frown::wink:

[gcarter]

I may have already mentioned this, but it might be a good idea, if you choose to use Knytex, to make a practice patch from some pieces of the Knytex, maybe 5" or 6" square. Cut a few more than what you think you might need, and lay them up on a piece of melamine.
It just might be a good idea to get a good handle on the characteristics before you actually start.
The investment in material and resin just might be worth it.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Skippy , there are far better choices of fabric then #38 oz stitchmat woven roving which is very old school and those fabric's are ............#1708 or #1808 which both are widely used today at most major Boat Co's .

[scippy]

Artie it was great to talk with ya!......food for thought in so many key area's of laminating idea's....."love the integral tank concept.

George thanks for sourcing out Merton's for me, very reasonably priced for all the materials I need.................indeed it is, Vinylester and 1708 kyntex.......any happy sadists out there that truly like grinding?

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Artie it was great to talk with ya!......food for thought in so many key area's of laminating idea's....."love the integral tank concept.

George thanks for sourcing out Merton's for me, very reasonably priced for all the materials I need.................indeed it is, Vinylester and 1708 kyntex.......any happy sadists out there that truly like grinding?Skippy and you also..........because it is always nice to put a voice to a name .

[scippy]

Got this done awhile ago, but didn't get around to post any pics. I lowered the cockpit floor by 7" this meant removing the two outboard stringers and taking 7" off the top of the keel stringer. 1st pic shows all the stringers intact with just the floor removed, the rest of the pictures are from different angles with 7" of the keel stringer cut and the outboard stringers gone.

[dammmagnum]

Got this done awhile ago, but didn't get around to post any pics. I lowered the cockpit floor by 7" this meant removing the two outboard stringers and taking 7" off the top of the keel stringer. 1st pic shows all the stringers intact with just the floor removed, the rest of the pictures are from different angles with 7" of the keel stringer cut and the outboard stringers gone.

Hello Scippy

When I did the floor on Plum Crazy, I left the side(outboard stringers)intacted (full height) and just cut down the center keel stringer , then I reinforced the center stringer with marine plywood on both side of the stringer,, am sure it was a over kill,, but I really didn't know better at the time. Then I build a box from marine plywood then bolted that to the side stringers and then glass it all in place to lower the front section of the floor. Didn't do all of the floor as I had two fuel tanks under the rear section of the floor.
Seem to work well

Thank you
jim

[scippy]

Hello Scippy

When I did the floor on Plum Crazy, I left the side(outboard stringers)intacted (full height) and just cut down the center keel stringer , then I reinforced the center stringer with marine plywood on both side of the stringer,, am sure it was a over kill,, but I really didn't know better at the time. Then I build a box from marine plywood then bolted that to the side stringers and then glass it all in place to lower the front section of the floor. Didn't do all of the floor as I had two fuel tanks under the rear section of the floor.
Seem to work well

Thank you
jim

Jim, I'm doing just the same, but on a larger scale. The 2 outboard stringers that were removed will be replaced, but farther port and starboard of there original locations. I know alot of people who raced these boats and never considered lowering the floor, but for me I'd rather be half in then half out!

[dammmagnum]

Jim, I'm doing just the same, but on a larger scale. The 2 outboard stringers that were removed will be replaced, but farther port and starboard of there original locations. I know alot of people who raced these boats and never considered lowering the floor, but for me I'd rather be half in then half out!


Yes,, I have to agree with you, about being in rather then out, so your lowered section will be larger to port and starboard?

Roger Munn had lowered the floor on his Sport just in the area of his two single bolsters , after he got tosed out once in a bay race. It made me think about it.
Being that I had a 3 man bolster set up, I did the entire section from side stringer to side stringer under the bolster and cut down the center stringer.
plus my new Biltrite 3 man bolster was higher , so was like gaining about 9-10 inches total
I thought that the later Starfire models had the floor lowered from the factory, I could be wrong?


Have a good weekend
Thank you
Jim

[scippy]

Decided to remove the (cockpit/cabin) bulkhead wall from the 27 sport today..........I found a little rot in the corner where the wall meets the hull, but really not much. I was looking for any good reason for a while to due this. Now crawling in & out won't be half as bad. I was lucky to get the wall out in virtually one piece, it was just a little flimsey so I screwed 1x2's to support it for tracing out the new wall after the fuel tanks go in. After much thought, I decided on 2 aluminum fuel tanks, both 65" apiece, roughy 12" longer than the 53" stock originals. Both getting Rochester twinset fuel senders (a manual sight glass gauge on the tank plus electrods to a dash mount) ........In a couple of the pictures you'll notice I've been peeling off some loosely laminated fiberglass. I pulled a slight corner that was up and now I'm surprisingly off to the races!......I have two questions?.......(1) I've used a flat chisel to pry it up to this point, how far ahead do I keep prying it up?.....also, because I'm using a bit of force to pull it up with a flat chisel, should a normal layer of woven roving be that prone to separation?..........One thing for sure is, "This beats f**k'n grinding any day of the week!

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy , the fabric l@@ks like it was wetted out just fine with no white area's that show de lamination with the exception of the very front and some of the stringer but then again it is hard to really tell . Scippy , just curious have you done a tap test listening for sound changes in the area that you are tearing out because if you use to much force something as got to give and are you able to keep slipping something under the lamininate like it is not bonded or see somewhat of a small gap between the two .

[Sweet Cheekz]

Scippy
Glad to see you are getting every last bit of "bad" stuff out Its your one and only chance. Looking great

Parnell

[dammmagnum]

Decided to remove the (cockpit/cabin) bulkhead wall from the 27 sport today..........I found a little rot in the corner where the wall meets the hull, but really not much. I was looking for any good reason for a while to due this. Now crawling in & out won't be half as bad. I was lucky to get the wall out in virtually one piece, it was just a little flimsey so I screwed 1x2's to support it for tracing out the new wall after the fuel tanks go in. After much thought, I decided on 2 aluminum fuel tanks, both 65" apiece, roughy 12" longer than the 53" stock originals. Both getting Rochester twinset fuel senders (a manual sight glass gauge on the tank plus electrods to a dash mount) ........In a couple of the pictures you'll notice I've been peeling off some loosely laminated fiberglass. I pulled a slight corner that was up and now I'm surprisingly off to the races!......I have two questions?.......(1) I've used a flat chisel to pry it up to this point, how far ahead do I keep prying it up?.....also, because I'm using a bit of force to pull it up with a flat chisel, should a normal layer of woven roving be that prone to separation?..........One thing for sure is, "This beats f**k'n grinding any day of the week!


Scippy

Looks like you been very busy there ,, great!!!
looking good, how much more fuel will you be able to carry now with the longer tanks?
Thank you
Jim

[scippy]

Scippy

Looks like you been very busy there ,, great!!!
looking good, how much more fuel will you be able to carry now with the longer tanks?
Thank you
Jim


Hey Jim,

What's really funny is I am busy at it, but can't seem to get out of my own way when doing some work under the deck. Although I removed the cabin/cockpit wall to make it easier to move around, you still have to be a contortionist to get anything done. The new fuel tanks will be approx. 62 gallons apiece and 12" longer than the old ones of 49 gallons and 53" long..........The area pictured is clean now after I removed all the poorly laminated woven roving that was kicking up, it didn't serve any good bond. I don't know the laminate schedule on this hull, but if it's anything like the stringers (1/2" plywood core and glassed over more than 3/8" on each side) it defintely won't miss a few layers in the belly.

[mphatc]

Late to the party here .. good thread . .

I removed a through hull head on my Magnum 27, the water intake and outlet ports were just forward of the bulkhead at the top of the above picture.
The glass layup here is 3/4" thick! Boat was built in 1968.

I to will be rebuilding my transom, because I'll be raising my drives and engines . .my transom is still dry and solid, so I only plan to cut out the lower section and fill that in. Do you all think that a 30 degree angle cut to create a longer wider joint will be adequete?

Mario L.
68 Magnum

[gcarter]

I to will be rebuilding my transom, because I'll be raising my drives and engines . .my transom is still dry and solid, so I only plan to cut out the lower section and fill that in. Do you all think that a 30 degree angle cut to create a longer wider joint will be adequete?

Mario L.
68 Magnum

Mario, every resource I have says to use a 1 in 12 joint.
I just calculated that and it's only 7.2*.
I know that's a lot of work, but the wider that joint is, the better.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy looks good and are you going to put a scarf joint on the end of those stringer's when replacing the new wood .

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Mario, every resource I have says to use a 1 in 12 joint.
I just calculated that and it's only 7.2*.
I know that's a lot of work, but the wider that joint is, the better. I agree and sometimes i have seen some people putting no joint in at all with only an insert .

[scippy]

Scippy looks good and are you going to put a scarf joint on the end of those stringer's when replacing the new wood .

Artie, Those stringers will eventually be tabbed to the new cabin/cockpit wall (bulkhead if you will)........... If you remember, I removed it to gain better access to the area for fuel tank placement and to clean up a layer of peeled up WR.........Now, when the cabin wall goes back in the outboard stringers will be tied in much wider apart because the the floor was lowered by 7"

[scippy]

I agree and sometimes i have seen some people putting no joint in at all with only an insert .

I could not imagine that. Certainly, in the case of a high torque area (a transom) anything but a proper 12 to 1 scarf for adequate adhesion plus the proper insert would only be asking for trouble,.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

I could not imagine that. Certainly, in the case of a high torque area (a transom) anything but a proper 12 to 1 scarf for adequate adhesion plus the proper insert would only be asking for trouble,. Scippy , funny thing i have seen it done more then once on other forums which has resulted in failure of some nature . Scippy , i sometimes forget everything that is going on and every once and awhile i need a strike of lighting :shocking::shocking:to keep my old AZZ on its toes , if you know what i mean . Ha ha ha ha

[scippy]

The TRS cutouts and thru exhaust holes are all scarfed and ready to be filled in now, but here in Jersey the weather has been seasonable and that means too cool to laminate (the magnum is stored in a 20'X40' unheated portable shelter) things might be heating up though, I'm checking out a suitable heating system, but until then just grinding and braving the cold.

[gcarter]

You did it!!!!!!!
All that crap is behind you now!
You could use something as simple as lamps for heating the surfaces.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Looking good Scippy

Parnell

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Scippy,
Keep it up. You will soon be ahead of my restoration that stalled out temporarily - :nilly:. What will you be using for a backing while laying up the glass? Will you try to do the entire layup and install the first piece of transom wood in one shot or will you do the glass work first? Bill

[mphatc]

Scippy,
Nice work!

Now the plywood . . . will you use 1" thick or 3/4" thick to rebuild?


George,

Thank you . . . 7.2" isn't that bad to blend . . .I'm also considering gussets from the hull to the transom, two on each side.
These would be perpendicular to the 24 degree surfaces one up each side of the drive mounting surface . . thoughts??

I did rip out the wood below my drive cutouts today. And found that water had leaked around the brass tube from the hull drain. This was able to migrate up each side behind the plywood as the rear edge was not filled with anything prior to laminating in the plywood. I'll build the bottom in solid epoxy and install a thread in brass insert and not a brass tube.

Mario L.

[scippy]

George,
If I could, I'd like to heat a good portion of the enclosure just to extend the restoration through the winter and be comfortable while doing it, but we'll see........What would be the minimum temperature to realistically do fiberglassing?

Bill,
I intend to use a piece of melamine large enough to form the backing to the TRS cutouts and exhaust holes. Afix this to the outside of the transom and then start building up layers of fiberglass from the inside. Wish I had the Florida or even Texas climate right about now to keep working!.....no fun in the northeast for boat related fun this time of year!

Mario,
I found the same situation as yours in my boat. A relatively solid transom thru-out except for the small area around the drain plug. The moisture didn't wick but a few square inches around it, but this time around I will laminate fiberglass layers 1-1/2" thick in that small triangular area where the sleeve holds the drain plug. The rest of the transom (above this) will be 2 piece's of 3/4" marine ply.

[gcarter]

George,

Thank you . . . 7.2" isn't that bad to blend . . .I'm also considering gussets from the hull to the transom, two on each side.
These would be perpendicular to the 24 degree surfaces one up each side of the drive mounting surface . . thoughts??
Mario L.

Mario, darn computer doesn't have a "DEGREE" symbol, so I used an asterisk instead. That was 7.2 degrees of angle. There's really not that much difference though. If your transom is also 9/16" thick, the scarf will be about 6 3/4".
That 3/4" bottom opening is 9" wide.
Bummer! :frown:

[mphatc]

George,
Are you talking about the glass joint or the plywood joint?
Because if it's plywood that's HUGE . . . and I'm not doing that! I might as well rip out the whole transom, the transom is 1 1/2" plywood and 9/16" glass on the outside and 3/16" inside.
I can understand a scarf joint for glass that wide, that makes sense and that's easy!! In a high stress area like the transom I'd usually go wider anyways.
But plywood . . . ?
My plan is to gusset the transom and add inner transom plates. I'm retaining Volvo drives which are normally just through bolted so they don't sandwich the transom like a Mercruiser.
As my whole purpose of this exercise is to raise my drives 2" like the racers back in the day did . . All they did was raise the drives, and close off the bottom with aluminum plates. I'll rebuild the plywood, add fiberglass from the outside to finish the transom correctly, and install 1/2" thick aluminum transom plates inside. This should function to spread the load over a wider area and avoid the deformation from the bolts and washers.
Your thoughts are valued . . .
Mario L.
68 Magnum 27 with Grizzly props
69 Corsican

[gcarter]

George,
Are you talking about the glass joint or the plywood joint?
Because if it's plywood that's HUGE . . . and I'm not doing that! I might as well rip out the whole transom, the transom is 1 1/2" plywood and 9/16" glass on the outside and 3/16" inside.
I can understand a scarf joint for glass that wide, that makes sense and that's easy!! In a high stress area like the transom I'd usually go wider anyways.
But plywood . . . ?
My plan is to gusset the transom and add inner transom plates. I'm retaining Volvo drives which are normally just through bolted so they don't sandwich the transom like a Mercruiser.
As my whole purpose of this exercise is to raise my drives 2" like the racers back in the day did . . All they did was raise the drives, and close off the bottom with aluminum plates. I'll rebuild the plywood, add fiberglass from the outside to finish the transom correctly, and install 1/2" thick aluminum transom plates inside. This should function to spread the load over a wider area and avoid the deformation from the bolts and washers.
Your thoughts are valued . . .
Mario L.
68 Magnum 27 with Grizzly props
69 Corsican

So, Mario, you aren't changing the transom cut out? Just moving the drives upward in the existing opening? If I'm missing it, let me know.
Then your plan seems reasonable. I don't get the 'glass on the outside?????
I was talking about glass, not plywood.
If I were adding gussets perpendicular to the bottom, and I'm assuming you're adding it to the transom glass where you cut out the plywwod, the only thing I'd suggest is good drainage, and make sure you don't create hard points in the hull bottom at the forward ends of the gussets.

[gcarter]

[quote=scippy;582405]George,
If I could, I'd like to heat a good portion of the enclosure just to extend the restoration through the winter and be comfortable while doing it, but we'll see........What would be the minimum temperature to realistically do fiberglassing?quote]

I don't think I'd try it much below 60*.
Mind you, the hull needs to be that temp also.
That makes it a lot harder.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Scippy
One or two cheap electric space heaters can get the area you are glassing to heated up good as long as its not too big at one time then let the heater stay on the glassed part overnight afterwards. Keep the resin and fabric inside and it should work out fine as long as its not 20 outside
Could give you a little more time to work before deep winter sets in Its going to be in the 60's here this week so you will get that near the end of the week.

Parnell

[dammmagnum]

George,
Are you talking about the glass joint or the plywood joint?
Because if it's plywood that's HUGE . . . and I'm not doing that! I might as well rip out the whole transom, the transom is 1 1/2" plywood and 9/16" glass on the outside and 3/16" inside.
I can understand a scarf joint for glass that wide, that makes sense and that's easy!! In a high stress area like the transom I'd usually go wider anyways.
But plywood . . . ?
My plan is to gusset the transom and add inner transom plates. I'm retaining Volvo drives which are normally just through bolted so they don't sandwich the transom like a Mercruiser.
As my whole purpose of this exercise is to raise my drives 2" like the racers back in the day did . . All they did was raise the drives, and close off the bottom with aluminum plates. I'll rebuild the plywood, add fiberglass from the outside to finish the transom correctly, and install 1/2" thick aluminum transom plates inside. This should function to spread the load over a wider area and avoid the deformation from the bolts and washers.
Your thoughts are valued . . .
Mario L.
68 Magnum 27 with Grizzly props
69 Corsican


Hello Mario,

When Roger M. raised my drives two inches, he glassed/plywooded in the bottom area. and it held up fine.

Hello Scippy.
Your work is looking good. Thank you for keeping us posted.

Thank you
jim

[MOP]

Do not run the plywood down around the drain whether it is a tube or screw plug, 90+% of transom rot starts at the drain plug.

My glass work was done by one of the finest guys on the east coast, he was at the time head glass man for Hustler. He told me the two most important things to stop water migration was no wood by the lug and to isolate the stringer wood from the transom wood. The transom wood on mine was cut straight across, there is no structual reason to run it down into the vee. The area below the ply in my transom was built to 3/4" solid glass, he said it will never go bad. He did the glass work to with stand way more ponies then I will ever put back there, note the doubled stringers and extra gussets there is even more forward no doubt one of the strongest 22's out there.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Mphatc , let me get this right you are going to raise the drives 2 inches just glass in an insert with no scarf joint put in aluminum backing plates on the back side and only glass the front like they did in the day and is this correct?

[mphatc]

My intent is to follow your lead on this Phil. As I did have some water in the wood at the bottom I've chosen to rebuild the lower section of the transom, pictures of how I will do this on the "Time Flies" thread, I feel like I'm hijacking someone else's thread here.

Offshore Ginger . . . no, I'm replacing the lower 8" of plywood core with a scarf joint 7.5" wide, or tall . . . . all of my rebuilding will be done with epoxy, and the lower crescent of the old cut out will be glassed in from the outside with another scarf joint.

I'm building this boat to stay in the water, it will not be a trailer queen! To that end the hull drain plug will be an NPT insert . . these never leak when installed correctly.

Mario L.

[scippy]

[quote=MOP;582547]Do not run the plywood down around the drain whether it is a tube or screw plug, 90+% of transom rot starts at the drain plug.

MOP,
You wonder why such a vunerable spot wasn't completely isolated from wood when they built the transom's of these boats........no doubt, I won't forget this simple precaution.

Mario,
More people around this table of discussion are welcome.........I'm learning as your asking..................no hijack, unless where taking about solar powered boats... LOL!!

[scippy]

Today I picked up the new fuel tanks and the propane convection heater (50,000 to 2000,000 btu's) for the portable structure Now, I'll be able to keep toasty while working on the Magnum right through the winter, if I so choose...............I'll clean and prep the tanks for a zinc chromate primer before I install.............no foam this time around, tanks will be secured w/ side and front brackets. On the bottom's will be 1/4" neopreme squares fior circulation.........just gotta get an order into Merton's before I can start.

[dammmagnum]

Today I picked up the new fuel tanks and the propane convection heater (50,000 to 2000,000 btu's) for the portable structure Now, I'll be able to keep toasty while working on the Magnum right through the winter, if I so choose...............I'll clean and prep the tanks for a zinc chromate primer before I install.............no foam this time around, tanks will be secured w/ side and front brackets. On the bottom's will be 1/4" neopreme squares fior circulation.........just gotta get an order into Merton's before I can start.

Scippy - Pete


Cool Hut,
Who made your new tanks and what gauge (thickness) did they use?
Stainless or Alum?
Can you use a 1/4" neopreme one pcs sheet rather then squares?
Like to see some photos with the brackets and when you install the tanks

Thank you
Jim

[mrfixxall]

Today I picked up the new fuel tanks and the propane convection heater (50,000 to 2000,000 btu's) for the portable structure Now, I'll be able to keep toasty while working on the Magnum right through the winter, if I so choose...............I'll clean and prep the tanks for a zinc chromate primer before I install.............no foam this time around, tanks will be secured w/ side and front brackets. On the bottom's will be 1/4" neopreme squares fior circulation.........just gotta get an order into Merton's before I can start.


heads up on that heater,,they are not that good,the galvanised metal heats up and along with the propane you will get sick..i have one and it didn't heat my old shop and it was insulated..a tank from a gas grill only last about 4-6 hrs then i freezes up and the btu's go way down almost to a pilot light.. your better off with a kerosene salamander heater or a electric fostoria electric salamander which i have for emergencies and it will keep my shop @ 65*..

[gcarter]

Not to mention having to ventilate that space that you're trying to keep warm.

[scippy]

Scippy - Pete


Cool Hut,
Who made your new tanks and what gauge (thickness) did they use?
Stainless or Alum?
Can you use a 1/4" neopreme one pcs sheet rather then squares?
Like to see some photos with the brackets and when you install the tanks

Thank you
Jim

Jim,
Alloy Metal Works, Farmingdale L.I. I think they came out pretty good.........Marshall (MdonziM) hooked me up with them after he had 2 made for his 27 Mag Starfire.
1/8" Aluminum 65" Long - approx. 65 gals apiece.........$400 per.
A flat sheet of 1/4" neopreme would not give me the air circulation around the bottom of the tank as would the varied placement of squares. Jim, the picture above shows the welded brackets on the tanks, I'll take more pics as I go along.

[scippy]

heads up on that heater,,they are not that good,the galvanised metal heats up and along with the propane you will get sick..i have one and it didn't heat my old shop and it was insulated..a tank from a gas grill only last about 4-6 hrs then i freezes up and the btu's go way down almost to a pilot light.. your better off with a kerosene salamander heater or a electric fostoria electric salamander which i have for emergencies and it will keep my shop @ 65*..

Fixx,
For me, I prefer LP over the Kero..........I've been in buildings where both were used - propane fan forced ceiling heaters (CO detector w/ cracked door) may be the lesser of 2 evil's, but a Kero heater gives me a headache imediately even with the sented fuel additives.
I'l be using a 100 pound LP tank (approx. 23.5 gals) not the 20 pound gas grille tank.
Remember it's 200,000 btu's and although it's a convection heater, I still have 2 ceiling fans in the "Mag dome" to push the heat around. After I blast (that's a poor word) up the heat I'll resort to smaller electric heaters for the glassing.

[dammmagnum]

Jim,
Alloy Metal Works, Farmingdale L.I. I think they came out pretty good.........Marshall (MdonziM) hooked me up with them after he had 2 made for his 27 Mag Starfire.
1/8" Aluminum 65" Long - approx. 65 gals apiece.........$400 per.
A flat sheet of 1/4" neopreme would not give me the air circulation around the bottom of the tank as would the varied placement of squares. Jim, the picture above shows the welded brackets on the tanks, I'll take more pics as I go along.


Sippy -Pete,
They look like pretty nice tanks, and doesn't sound like a bad deal at that price. do they have internal baffles?
Understand about the venting under the tanks, as you will randomly place the squares under the key areas of the tanks.
yes see the backets mounted on the tanks

thank you
Jim

[scippy]

Sippy -Pete,
They look like pretty nice tanks, and doesn't sound like a bad deal at that price. do they have internal baffles?
Understand about the venting under the tanks, as you will randomly place the squares under the key areas of the tanks.
yes see the backets mounted on the tanks

thank you
Jim

Jim,
2 baffles per tank and a new calendar for the new year! :wink:

[scippy]

This ain't news, but I'm bored......."for your holiday pleasure a nice batch of under-cured resin".......almost 4 weeks old with runny nose patches!

[Sweet Cheekz]

Looks like a do over scippy

Have a great holiday

Parnell

[scippy]

I want to replicate an engine hatch for the one that's missing on my '76 Mag sport. looking for some good pictures to get a general idea of what the plug should look like..........might even build a "one off" from a male mold. The picture below is Aron's '74 Sport. This is what I'd like to build for my boat, just looking for some different angle shots.

[superhatz]

Scippy...send me your e-mail address and I'll send you some more photos of the hatch....sent you a PM too.

:pimp:

[MDonziM]

Hey Aaron,

Just wondering if you could measure either from the top of your transom assy to your rubrail or from the bottom of the assy to the hull bottom. Trying to get as many figures as possible before I re-cut my transom.

Thanks - Marshall

[superhatz]

Hey Aaron,

Just wondering if you could measure either from the top of your transom assy to your rubrail or from the bottom of the assy to the hull bottom. Trying to get as many figures as possible before I re-cut my transom.

Thanks - Marshall

Yeah..no problem. I keep meaning to do this....my boat was re-rigged with Bravos and it works very well. 320EFIs with 21p Mirage plus'...runs 67 mph GPS with a half tank and two fat guys on board...crappy bottom paint too. When I redo the bottom, I should touch 70mph...

:lobster:

[MDonziM]

Yeah..no problem. I keep meaning to do this....my boat was re-rigged with Bravos and it works very well. 320EFIs with 21p Mirage plus'...runs 67 mph GPS with a half tank and two fat guys on board...crappy bottom paint too. When I redo the bottom, I should touch 70mph...

:lobster:

Last yr with 420hp a side I ran 71mph best so I'm hoping for big improvement with the raised bravo's and more hp. Should be cutting the transom in 3 weeks.

Thanks - Marshall

[scippy]

This ain't news, but I'm bored......."for your holiday pleasure a nice batch of under-cured resin".......almost 4 weeks old and still runny nose & undercured patches!

Finally,.....got two good days of weather last week to remove (old undercured patches) and re-glass in the exhaust holes in the transom. Also, I backed the TRS cutouts w/melamine & started with 2 layers of Mat (from the inside) ........................as expected, everything kicked really nice (weather was in the 70's) compared to the "gummy gumbo" I cooked up a couple months ago.

[scippy]

After gluing (epoxy) together the two 3/4" ply inserts for the core of the new transom, I fitted it one last time before it's permanently seated in hull & deck putty.
I used 2X3 bracing within the boat to fix it in place. The bulkhead forward of the engine bay was plenty strong to support the bracing.......I never intended to use screws, just couldn't see patching more holes. Next I have to fillet al the corners before the first course of 1708 is applied, then replace the stringers to the new transom.

[Fast Shafts 1]

Looking great Pete!

[gcarter]

Pete!
This looks great!
Now you're an expert.
That's as fine a job as you could hope to see.
How about some shots of the outside?

[MDonziM]

Scippy,

Looks good! Glad to see you making some headway. Is your deck off? If not what is your plan for installing the stringers, dont the main ouside ones attach to the big pads that support the cockpit floor? My secondary stringers run about 18" forward of the eng room bulkhead.

- Marshall

[scippy]

Thanks Bob......Hard to believe it's a year already since I bought her from you. lots of work to do yet, don't expect to splash her until the 2012 season.

George,

Thanks for the positive comments. I'm trying to keep each little project small & then moving on .......If I were to think of the whole project before me - sheeeezzze....it'll get scary real quick!!.......I'll shoot some pics of the outside soon.
A question for ya concerning the re-attachment of the stringers to the transom?........Should the (stringers) be attached before any laminant is applied? .......I was going to laminate a course of 1708 on the transom first before attaching the stringers back to the transom?......not sure if it makes any differance though.

[scippy]

Scippy,

Looks good! Glad to see you making some headway. Is your deck off? If not what is your plan for installing the stringers, dont the main ouside ones attach to the big pads that support the cockpit floor? My secondary stringers run about 18" forward of the eng room bulkhead.

- Marshall

Marshall,

The deck is not off..........All three stringers where cut-back on an angle 6" to 8" from the transom in order to make adaquate room for transom re-placement..........the pics weren't the best to see this.

[gcarter]

George,

Thanks for the positive comments. I'm trying to keep each little project small & then moving on .......If I where to think of the whole project ahead of me, sheeeezzze....it'll get scary real quick!!.......I'll shoot some pics of the outside soon.
A question for ya concerning the re-attachment of the stringers to the transom?........Should the (stringers) be attached before any laminate applied? .......I was going to laminate a course of 1708 on the transom first before attaching the stringers back to the transom?......not sure if it makes any differance though.

I think I would key the stringers into the transom wood. Be sure and seal the end grain of the stringers w/penetrating epoxy before installing them.

[scippy]

I think I would key the stringers into the transom wood. Be sure and seal the end grain of the stringers w/penetrating epoxy before installing them.

George,

I keyed all the missing stringer pieces to the transom (wood to wood) sealed them and radiused all the corners. Was hoping to glass over transom & stringers, but the weather has been rainy and cool, so I'll wait for dryer weather before I start. I grinded back a 12 to 1 scarf where the new transom (core) fits back in to the previous cutout...... There were many layers of woven roving grinded back to transition the scarf at the joints and I'm just wondering if I should replace back with the same (WR) in adition to some 1708 ???................................Happy Easter & Holidays to everybody!

[superhatz]

Looks great!....it's nice to see the old Magnums getting restored correctly.

:party:

[gcarter]

Pete, that looks great! :)
I'd stick w/1708, as it's so much stronger than WR.
Maybe consider building it up to the level of the existing glass, followed by adding a couple of courses over the new and old structure forward maybe 5'-6' or to a bulkhead.

Where are the motor mounts and what do they look like?

[MDonziM]

Sciipy,

I would say the tabbing around my stringers/bulkheads etc. is 6-8".
Maby glass in a second bilge pump pad as well? Nice to have 2...

- Marshall

[scippy]

Pete, that looks great! :)
I'd stick w/1708, as it's so much stronger than WR.
Maybe consider building it up to the level of the existing glass, followed by adding a couple of courses over the new and old structure forward maybe 5'-6' or to a bulkhead.

Where are the motor mounts and what do they look like?

George,

I tried my hand at WR just to see how it would be to work with and it's not easy at all. The template piece for the transom I needed was 35"x72"....this thing unraveled like a ball of twine and lost it's shape very easily......1708 is what I'll use hear on out..........they must of been pretty good back then to have solely used only WR.

The only sign of motor mounts now are the cutout holes through the stringers -(no hardware) there just back of the new splices (on the 3 stringers) just fitted in to the new transom........I'm pretty messy, so... it helps to tape down some paper before the Mat and 2 courses of 1708 go on.

[scippy]

Sciipy,

I would say the tabbing around my stringers/bulkheads etc. is 6-8".
Maby glass in a second bilge pump pad as well? Nice to have 2...

- Marshall

Marshall,

That's a great idea to add a second pump pad.....will do!

[scippy]

Few more courses of 1708 on the stringers and the new transom will be completed...next, I'll be glassing the deck to the hull just within the engine bay area (On this boat, I never felt a screwed & caulked deck was secure enough & plan to glass the whole deck down around the inside perimeter eventually) ..........then on to fabricating a new engine hatch.

[gcarter]

George,

I tried my hand at WR just to see how it would be to work with and it's not easy at all. The template piece for the transom I needed was 35"x72"....this thing unraveled like a ball of twine and lost it's shape very easily......1708 is what I'll use hear on out..........they must of been pretty good back then to have solely used only WR.

The only sign of motor mounts now are the cutout holes through the stringers -(no hardware) there just back of the new splices (on the 3 stringers) just fitted in to the new transom........I'm pretty messy, so... it helps to tape down some paper before the Mat and 2 courses of 1708 go on.

Pete, I think 1708 is the way to go, but it takes more courses.
However, Mertons offers a 38 OZ WR stitchmnat that solves all these problems. I used some in the bottom of the TR. Not expensive either at $7.00/yd.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy seeing that you are using Vinyl / Poly i would stick with the 1708 which is more of a user friendly fabric and Scippy, after looking at your pics your motor stringers look like 5/8 Ply ?

[MDonziM]

Few more courses of 1708 on the stringers and the new transom will be completed...next, I'll be glassing the deck to the hull just within the engine bay area (On this boat, I never felt a screwed & caulked deck was secure enough & plan to glass the whole deck down around the inside perimeter eventually) ..........then on to fabricating a new engine hatch.

Looking good Skippy. I never thought about glassing the deck joint, sounds interesting. I had to put bigger screws (and more of them in a couple spots) in many of the ones I replaced.

- Marshall

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Few more courses of 1708 on the stringers and the new transom will be completed...next, I'll be glassing the deck to the hull just within the engine bay area (On this boat, I never felt a screwed & caulked deck was secure enough & plan to glass the whole deck down around the inside perimeter eventually) ..........then on to fabricating a new engine hatch. Scippy - Pete , after reading this again - bonding the hull to the deck is a very good idea which makes a hull and deck more bullet proof (structural) kinda like a rock .

[scippy]

Pete, I think 1708 is the way to go, but it takes more courses.


George,

I plan on using an additional 3 courses of 1708 making it 6 courses total to bring up the thickness of the original stringers......what you see in the picture is only halfway there at 3 courses.
A question?....my original engine bay stringers were 1/2" core plywood with CSM & WR totaling atleast 1" of glass ........I'm wondering if 1708 would be just as strong with half the thickness applied?

[scippy]

Scippy seeing that you are using Vinyl / Poly i would stick with the 1708 which is more of a user friendly fabric and Scippy, after looking at your pics your motor stringers look like 5/8 Ply ?

Artie,

1708 does feel easier to work with (user friendly) ............I tried my hand at 18 oz. WR and it was a complete disaster........The core is actually 1/2" plywood

[scippy]

Looking good Skippy. I never thought about glassing the deck joint, sounds interesting. I had to put bigger screws (and more of them in a couple spots) in many of the ones I replaced.

- Marshall

Marshall,

I decided to do this after seeing abit of flexure in the original screwed down hull /deck bond. Would not want to lose the deck if I ever stuffed the nose, plus it's totally accessible to do right now.

[scippy]

Must he post every picture?.............yea, why not?.... it's been a slow work day, but a good day. it's the first day my glasses didn't fog up and the soles of my shoes didn't stick to the hull..........I'm finding if you just relax there could be a certain Art to this glass work thing. :yes::yes:

[Fast Shafts 1]

Pete-keep the pictures coming!! Your restoration is coming along great.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy , its all good and a stupid trick that has been used over the years at many boat Co's is ...................masking off , the bottom, and around your shoes ............

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Must he post every picture?.............yea, why not?.... it's been a slow work day, but a good day. it's the first day my glasses didn't fog up and the soles of my shoes didn't stick to the hull..........I'm finding if you just relax there could be a certain Art to this glass work thing. :yes::yes: Pete , the bottom line is ..............take your time and do a nice job ...........without , going into panic mode !

[Pismo]

Cool thread...

[scippy]

Finally all the fiberglass work is done in the bilge. (finished with 12 oz. cloth to smooth over all the 1708 used on the new transon and stringers) I also drilled out the 3" access holes in the stringers as well as the drain plug hole. Also, glassed deck/hull together for solid bond. Just need to paint, but that can wait til later.

[gcarter]

Nice detail work Pete.

[dammmagnum]

Finally all the fiberglass work is done in the bilge. (finished with 12 oz. cloth to smooth over all the 1708 used on the new transon and stringers) I also drilled out the 3" access holes in the stringers as well as the drain plug hole. Also, glassed deck/hull together for solid bond. Just need to paint, but that can wait til later.


Pete,

Looking really good, very nice.

Thank you
Jim

[bertsboat]

All that work to replace wood with wood? Did I see wood in those 3" holes? Thats why mine was rotten in the first place. I DID NOT USE WOOD ANYWHERE. When I am dead and gone and twenty or thirty years from now, someone will thank me.

[bertsboat]

Nice job by the way !!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Scippy,
Very nice work there. Much nicer finish work than I used to do when I did it professionally years ago - :yes: Bill

[scippy]

Scippy,
Very nice work there. Much nicer finish work than I used to do when I did it professionally years ago - :yes: Bill

Bill,

I've seen your work ( Mag 27' resto in progress) top notch!......would still love to see your many idea's play out, particularly the hatch design. I think we all would've enjoyed that very much and what you had instore for us...........Thanks for the compliment.

[scippy]

All that work to replace wood with wood? Did I see wood in those 3" holes? Thats why mine was rotten in the first place. I DID NOT USE WOOD ANYWHERE. When I am dead and gone and twenty or thirty years from now, someone will thank me.

It's a fair question and when I undertook this resto I inquired solely whether the core materials (transom, stringers, bulkheads etc) should be "Ply or Coosa" I decided on using ply (wood) for 2 reasons - cost and oversight...........a properly encapsulated wood core done right will also be here 20, 30 yrs from now, but you must be conscienous to do the job right..........cost was a no brainer.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy , glad to see you are going with Epoxy and that little tid -bit about using Cabosil / mixed , with resin , when doing an overhead layup ......is something i turned GlassDave (on too) a while back when i worked at Skater .

[scippy]

Scippy , glad to see you are going with Epoxy and that little tid -bit about using Cabosil / mixed , with resin , when doing an overhead layup ......is something i turned GlassDave (on too) a while back when i worked at Skater .

Artie,

For the likes of me, I don't see how it would stick any other way.:confused: Had no idea Epoxy would run that easily out of the glass fabric, forgetabout hanging it overhead :bonk:The cabo trick is the ticket. Now, I can hang that fabric (overhead) like fly paper catching a fly :wink:

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy , some epoxies are designed for infusion use only...... and often, are as thick as water or should i say very thin . Scippy i mostly use a very thick epoxy that Skater uses (Shell ) or an Epoxy made here in Mich for the Aero -space industry by ( Plasco ) which is like shell with a pot life of 165 min at 70 % but non the less i always mix Cabosil with every batch when doing any lay up .

[scippy]

Scippy , some epoxies are designed for infusion use only...... and often, are as thick as water or should i say very thin . Scippy i mostly use a very thick epoxy that Skater uses (Shell ) or an Epoxy made here in Mich for the Aero -space industry by ( Plasco ) which is like shell with a pot life of 165 min at 70 % but non the less i always mix Cabosil with every batch when doing any lay up .

Artie,

I'm using systems three epoxy (#2 med. cure) I ordered it from Merton's..........I should've ordered #3 slow cure. Right now the max pot life is about 45 min. @ 70 plus degrees...........it doesn't allow you for much error. So, the cabo trick really moves the paper hanging along :wink:

I started making some templates to build a new engine hatch. I'm using a 1"x4" piece of pine to hold aganist the engine bay cutout & scribe the crown shape of the missing hatch. It's going to be a male mold. I should have some pics in a few days.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Looks and sounds great Pete

Keep up the good work

Parnell

[scippy]

P,

Can't wait to see you get started on the open bow Mag 27. The custom work that you outlined is going to make it a very unique Magnum sport........great to talk with you the other day.

I started to build a male mold for the missing engine hatch on my 27 sport. Measuring is the hardest part. I framed it in place just to get the right angle of the slope or crown. Because it's the oposite of a female mold, It has to be framed a little smaller considering the glass will go on the outside. I'll use melamine on all the sides, apply a parting agent, add resin & glass - let cure then pull the frame away...........I'll use 1/2" balsa core for the crowned top. this will be done from the inside after the form is pulled.

[gcarter]

I like it Pete!

Well done!

[Sweet Cheekz]

Hey Pete

I see a new second career in boat building!

Good talking to you too.

Side note My mechanic has taken ownership of Maggie number three and will be giving her a full restoration over the next two years so we will have another sport over here on lake michigan I also found the registration hidden in the boat A 1971

Parnell

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Some great looking work, Scippy.

[MDonziM]

Scippy,

Hatch looks real nice. Great looking job on the template. I think my hatch is about 3/4" thick maby 1" on the edges which sounds like where you will end up.

- Marshall

[dammmagnum]

Pete

Really looking good. doing some nice work on the Sport.

will look forward to seeing the hatch when its done

Parnell

Great about the second Magnum Sport, its sounds like it found a very good home also . hope he keeps us posted on the work he does on it.
Great.

Thank you
Jim

[scippy]

Scippy,

Hatch looks real nice. Great looking job on the template. I think my hatch is about 3/4" thick maby 1" on the edges which sounds like where you will end up.

- Marshall

Marshall,

The 1/2" balsa core will be encapsulated between (2) 1/8" thick laminant followed by thin layers of fairing compound, probabely closer to 1"......."MAYHEM" looks great! - good luck with getting her dialed in.

Thanks all (P, George, Marshall, Bill, Jim) for the kind words............I have a quick question though concerning choice of material before I start the hatch..........I intend to use Vinylester & 1708 - polyester fairing compound - prime & then paint for the finish. Also, I have at my disposal, systems three epoxy with a suitable 12 oz. DB cloth............which do you think would be a better choice (material) for the hatch construction?..........appreciate it!

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Marshall,

The 1/2" balsa core will be encapsulated between (2) 1/8" thick laminant followed by thin layers of fairing compound, probabely closer to 1"......."MAYHEM" looks great! - good luck with getting her dialed in.

Thanks all (P, George, Marshall, Bill, Jim) for the kind words............I have a quick question though concerning choice of material before I start the hatch..........I intend to use Vinylester & 1708 - polyester fairing compound - prime & then paint for the finish. Also, I have at my disposal, systems three epoxy with a suitable 12 oz. DB cloth............which do you think would be a better choice (material) for the hatch construction?..........appreciate it! Scippy , the Vinyl and 1708 will be a good choice with an epoxy backup and just curious how thick will your fairing compound actually be in some areas and what brand name is the fairing compound , along with the primer you are going to be using ......Adtech filler or Duratec primer ........or ?

[scippy]

Scippy , the Vinyl and 1708 will be a good choice with an epoxy backup and just curious how thick will your fairing compound actually be in some areas and what brand name is the fairing compound , along with the primer you are going to be using ......Adtech filler or Duratec primer ........or ?

Artie,

I was thinking that way also (Vinyle & 1708) just needed a strong opinion from a good glassman.....The male mold turned out pretty good & level, so hopefully I won't need too much compound. It's called "poly fair" a fairing compound from Merton's.....no choice on paint primer yet................any suggestions?

[gcarter]

Artie,

I was thinking that way also (Vinyle & 1708) just needed a strong opinion from a good glassman.....The male mold turned out pretty good & level, so hopefully I won't need too much compound. It's called "poly fair" a fairing compound from Merton's.....no choice on paint primer yet................any suggestions?

No suggestions on paint primer.....unless.....you end up w/epoxy on the outside, then System Three has some really good primers for painting over epoxy. Normally, that's a very difficult thing to do.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy, i have used Duratec primer's at every Boat Co , that i have ever worked for over the years including Skater , and to tell you truth they are great when used to fill in those low spots or dial everything in to get ready for paint along with being easy to sand , and can be purchased in grey , black or white which i prefer..........................http://www.expresscomposites.com/duratec1.html

[scippy]

I fitted the engine hatch (male mold) one last time before I start to glass it over. It has a slight crown to it but otherwise conforms to the deck around it..........I'm still thinking about a higher arching crown (hatch) so I can incorporate in a engine grille vent across it :).............The first conservative hatch almost eliminates everything but a pair of 350 sb's or 383 MPI's..............I'm leaning towards conservative.

[mphatc]

Nice work! Looks very much like the original on my 1968 . . which is freaking HEAVY . . flat . .about 3/4" solid . . .

With this I calculated that I can raise my stock SBC and Volvo set up 2" w/o having the flame arrestors hit the hatch . . then I added higher rise manifolds . .

so I was planning on cutting it front to back like your balsa core to crown it . . but I still will have the heavy over weight hatch . .

so I'd love to have you share the dimensions . . . length and width . . possibly then I'd need to convince you to make two:):lookaroun:

The side flanges on my hatch are 1/4" thick . . and the hatch to deck clearance is about the same.

Mario

[scippy]

Mario,

My hatch was missing when I got the sport, but just like all the other glass parts on the mag it must have been "Monster heavy" such as your '68 hatch......Not really sure of what engine hatch my '76 sport was fitted with (TRS or flat) but I intend to build the flatter of the two. Should be much lighter and just as strong with the 1/2" balsa core.

All the demensions I have are for the pictured hatch (37"x 64"x 1") I used a template to scribe & trace the angle of the crown.

Building a raised hatch should be no problem. Start with sculpting styrofoam, cut to design & place it upon a lightly framed replica of the engine hatch such as mine........it gets a little involved, but not bad.......I'll be saving my hatch mold anyway, if you need it in the future.

[scippy]

Finally got a course down of 1708 on the egine hatch mold. I'll use a total of 3 layers of glass before I part the mold out , flip it, then glass in 1/2" balsa core. I waxed and used PVA on the male mold ......hopefully it parts nice & easy :crossfing:

[scippy]

The hatch mold parted very easy from the 3 courses of 1708 upon it.......next, I flipped it, then roughed up the smooth finish with 60 grit. Next, measure & cut the balsa core then press it down into some hull & deck putty.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

The hatch mold parted very easy from the 3 courses of 1708 upon it.......next, I flipped it, then roughed up the smooth finish with 60 grit. Next, measure & cut the balsa core then press it down into some hull & deck putty. Scippy looking good .

[scippy]

I layed down 1/2" x 3" ply around the whole perimeter for a better bite when I install & screw the hinges and hatch locks. Wasn't sure if balsa would compress & crack the laminant in these area's so, no chances taken :crossfing:
Thanks Artie

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

I layed down 1/2" x 3" ply around the whole perimeter for a better bite when I install & screw the hinges and hatch locks. Wasn't sure if balsa would compress & crack the laminant in these area's so, no chances taken :crossfing:
Thanks Artie Scippy, the cool thing about your new hatch is.......... it is most likely ..... half the weight or less then the one that was made at the factory . Scippy , just curious are you going to be putting a sun pad .....on the new hatch ?

[scippy]

Scippy, the cool thing about your new hatch is.......... it is most likely ..... half the weight or less then the one that was made at the factory . Scippy , just curious are you going to be putting a sun pad .....on the new hatch ?

Artie,

Even though I have nothing to compare it to (since my hatch was MIA) - I could only imagine the weight of a 3/4" solid glass hatch. just a few posts back, Mario (mphatc) said his '68 flat hatch was "freakin' heavy".....so, hopefully it is half the weight & also strong enough to stand on if need be :crossfing:.......I think eventually yes, a sun pad would work well with a flat hatch. Now, atleast I know I have something for the buttons to screw into. :)

[scippy]

This hatch is pretty much done. I'll re-fit one more time before I fair it, sand & paint it.......The process wasn't as difficult as I thought and I'm kinda pleased at the results. I kept a figure on the main materials (Vinylester resin, 1708, 1/2" balsa core) under $300 ......it's strong enough to stand on and under 60 lbs.

[MDonziM]

Looks great scippy!

[gcarter]

Congratulations Pete!
It looks great! :yes:

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Great work, Skippy. Isn't it nice to have something like that checked off your restoration list? Bill

[Walt. H.]

Pete,
Now I know why i've not heard from you in a dogs age, stay focus and give a shout when it's convenient before the next ice age. :crossfing:
Walt

[scippy]

Thanks Marshall........would you believe I'm still waiting for Phil to get the anchor hatch done :bonk:Happy "Mayhem" boating.

Thanks George........Can't tell ya how much confidence I get to even start this stuff if not having someone like you to learn from.

Thanks Bill.........Since we both have MIA engine hatches.....I was thinking, "Can't wait till Bill starts his"....I was just capable to get this flat one done bearly. The one you had planned for the sport was going to be spectacular......Dammm!

[scippy]

Pete,
Now I know why i've not heard from you in a dogs age, stay focus and give a shout when it's convenient before the next ice age. :crossfing:
Walt

Walt,

I'm often in Bklyn. epecially Flatbush ave. south around your old stomping grounds....I can see a flag drop... once around Mau Mau isl. out to the korvetts cove then back to gerritsen - winner buys cold ones at the Tammaqua. I doubt this here Magnum would hold up to your Carlson "Shadow gril" .........Bikinni Fly maybe??

[Walt. H.]

Walt,
I'm often in Bklyn. epecially Flatbush ave. south around your old stomping grounds....I can see a flag drop... once around Mau Mau isl. out to the korvetts cove then back to gerritsen - winner buys cold ones at the Tammaqua. I doubt this here Magnum would hold up to your Carlson "Shadow gril" .........Bikinni Fly maybe??
Ha ha! maybe around Mau mau island but you'll kick my butt heading out thru Rockaway inlet, :checkered: and thats ShadowGirl not gril. :nilly:
I'd settle for a few slices from L&B Pizza :pizza: on Stillwell Ave.....

Here's a exact twin to your old Bikinni Fly back in the day..

[scippy]

Walt, I meant to say Shadow girl.......sometimes dyslexic :hyper:...........I don't have pics left from those days. That picture put me right back behind the controls of Bikinni fly.........sure, L&B's anyday!!!

[Walt. H.]

Give me a day or two notice and a time and i'll meet Ya' down there for sure or pig out on clams & beer at Randazzle's @ Sheepshead bay..

[scippy]

Great idea, I need a break soon..........hopefully before the summer ends.

[Walt. H.]

Great idea, I need a break soon..........hopefully before the summer ends.
I'm hungry right now and my wife will be away until this Thurs, hint - hint!:yes:

[scippy]

Walt...............send me your tel. # engin255@aol.com

[Walt. H.]

Pete,
Ck your e-mail & I already have your e-mail addy & ph,# wattsa matta wit yo? :hyper:

[lemshawsTaise]

Hello, I am new to this forum i would just like to say hi :) I shall see you all on the forum! link building service (http://www.interspiresubmit.com)

[lemshawsTaise]

Hello, I am new to this forum i would just like to say hi :) I shall see you all on the forum! link building service (http://www.interspiresubmit.com)

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy ,it seems you have a Spamer on your thread , and what a shame.........

[scippy]

Artie,

Walt H. warned me!!!............oh well, Ply coosa and some spam anybody?????

[Sweet Cheekz]

Pete
Boat blow away in the storm? How did the maggie restoration project fare?

Parnell

[scippy]

Pete
Boat blow away in the storm? How did the maggie restoration project fare?

Parnell

Hey P,

The boat shelter passed the test. It's considered now "hurricane proof" :) Mag safe and sound, not a nick on it.
If your talking about the hatch, yes it's all done. The whole restoration project??....now that's a different story :wink:

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy .....is it we are not worthy ..when seeking information other then OSO ........or do you feel that OSO is the answer to all of your questions ha ha ha ha , and why would you even want to be a member of that site considering that site is more then a handfull...... when it comes to opinions , and not to mention all of the $hit that goes along with being a member of that site . Scippy , just rustling your feathers and who cares .........ha ha ha ha . Scippy , remember i am just bustin your balls .....ha ha ha again !

[smidgen too]

Talk about Mag hatches, how is this look, pie plates ??? :boggled::boggled::boggled: I bought these
scoops on ebay to cover the holes up on my sport and still use a sun pad. :wink: With my drive as high as they are the carbs hit the hatch. :eek:

[scippy]

Artie please!!........Stop with OSO thing already. Your way to irritable and you haven't even turned 60 yet.

[scippy]

Mark, At speed you'd have flying saucers back there :lookaroun: I notice you have the Perko flush
lifting handle............I just installed one on my engine hatch as well

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]Scippy ,or should i say Mr irritable you dawg , and when is the last time you got laid ? Pete , i will be 60 in less then six months .:lookaroun::lookaroun:

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Mark ,nice touch , and as you....... most likely already know running scoops of that sort ........ always seems to make everything a little bit louder .

[smidgen too]

[Mark, At speed you'd have flying saucers back there :lookaroun: I notice you have the Perko flush
lifting handle............I just installed one on my engine hatch as well]


When I ran her last week I was worried that they would fly off, :nilly: so off they came before the run. :yes:
My sport dose have some good parts on her but most of the deck hardware will be going to the chrome shop in Toledo. I not going to break the bank on this restoration, as my 3 other offshores would get jealous.:eek: This Mag has to run by next spring so I can have a old school reunion in 2012. :cool:

[smidgen too]

SCOOPS,, Artie & they are good for at least 10 mph when bar stool racing.:wink:

[scippy]

Artie lets just say I could call you "junior" now :wink:

Mark just got a few things back from Al's polishing (see, Re-chrome recommends in perf. talk)
very satisfied with both the price and quality of work.

[smidgen too]

Scippy,, I saw you parts, they do look very good. I start stripping the Mag down Monday. Let the fun begain.:nilly:

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

So pete , have you decided on a what Air Compressor and Spray gun to purchase at this point,and remember if you choose to use Duartec or any high build Primer the bigger the tip on the gun the better when spraying high build primer's or at least get a gun that offers different size tip's for different applications of material. Scippy i use the $hit out Duratec white 714-002 . http://www.expresscomposites.com/duratec.html which i see Fixx also has suggested using . Mark good one in regards to bar stool racing .

[scippy]

Artie,

I have some great kids. It's been leaked that a sizable gift card (maybe Sears) is instore for my birthday. :yes:
I agree, Duratec white 714-002 (as suggested by you & others) would be the best choice and the most
forgiving for this amature's touch..................Is there a specific tip size for the Duratec?-or- would that
depend on the particular spray unit I buy?

[gcarter]

Unfortunately, you're probably not going to find a suitable gun at Sears.
Ask for a transfer into your PayPal account or something.
There're aboout three good gun mfgrs out there and I'd expect you'd pay $350-$500 for one w/about four tips included.

[scippy]

George I went on www.spraygunworld.com (http://www.spraygunworld.com) and found some info on HVLP guns.
Because I don't have 220 where the boat is being worked on nor do I have air
tools, I looked at the FUJI spray turbine for adequate painting & trying to still
keep it under a grand....................With my situation, what Mfgrs. would you
still recommend?.....Wonder if my thinking on this whole thing is getting a little
crazy

[scippy]

Before I figure out whom might be doing the priming & painting
around here :confused:.....I set the Perko flush handle in the eng. hatch.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy, George is right about buying a good spray gun ,and most offer three different size tips which usally are in the 1.2 ,1.3, 1.4 range which is great for spraying imron , Awlgrip , Base coat - Clear Coat , ext , ext . Pete , i prefer a gun that i will only use for Primer and jell alone which..... will offer me a tip that is 2.2 , or bigger . Scippy , most guns will offer a wide range of tips either with the the gun when purchased or having to order the size that is needed for your type of application which really is not that much . Hey ole friend , just curious do you pay rent for the storage where the boat is at now ?

[gcarter]

I've been told the turbines work well, although I have no experience w/them.
DeVilbis and Binks both make good guns. There's another couple of brands that are popular w/the pros.
Both Mike and Artie can give you guidance.
I have a C.A.Technologies Jaguar gravity feed HVLP gun w/4 tips, which includes a 2.2 for spraying gel. I've also adapted a DeVilbis bag system to it which helps on clean up and you can also spray up-side down w/the bag.
I think I payed about $425.00 for it.

[scippy]

Artie,

The boat is on my property in a 20' X 40' portable structure (kodiac from Canada) I have electricity w/110 service
lights & overhead fans. It's heated & sits on new poured asphalt...........I'm setup pretty good for painting.....lets
just see whats...........I like the FUJI turbine - perfect for my setup..............so, 2.2 would be good for Duratec?

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Pete , a 2.2 tip or 2.5 would work very well for spraying that type of material ( Duratec ) , and when i worked at Skater spraying 14 gallons or more in one stretch.......... i often used a 2 qt pressure pot which had a 3.0 tip , and most qt gun's that we were using for spraying primer had a range of tips from 2.2 , 2.5 to 2.8 . George i also have a DeVilbss GFG -670 that offers me the bag for spraying upside down and easy cleanup which i like very well . Pete just curious are you planning on spraying the whole boat with Duratec and going thru the whole process of blocking everything out ? Man , i sure like that little shed that you are working out of , and is the Turbine unit designed for spraying material like jell or Duratec , and what size tips do they offer with that gun ? Pete a friend of mine has one of these units . www.turbinaire.com (http://www.turbinaire.com) :)

[Carl C]

Now that's a tent! :) Pretty cool.:cool:

[scippy]

Yes, I'd like to spray the whole boat prime & paint. I've done the small scale stuff already like block & sand the transom,
engine hatch etc...I've never undertaken anything on a scale as large as this before. In fact, I've never done any glass
work before the Magnum project....... Paid the big bucks on resto's in the past this one well be all mine.... Good or bad!
The turbine can handle 1mil thru 2.2mil........Duratec should be no problem here.........The problem might be painting the
hull bottom, don't know if I can bag the gun to paint upside down.

[scippy]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

Carl,

Funny,... I had an event called "Come to the big tent" this summer for friends & family.
Pulled the Magnum out & seated 40 people inside eating & watching old super 8 movies.

[gcarter]

Pete, the DeVilbis bag kit comes w/6 or 8 different adapters that fit inside the throat of the can.
Then a small plastic fitting is installed into the bottom center of the bag and then the fitting is installed into the can throat adapter.
Also what I like about the bags is it's a lot easier (for me anyway) to mix small batches of paint, primer, or gel and then pour that amount into the bag, spray it and dispose of the bag.
It's a snap.

[gcarter]

Here're the bags;

http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/devilbiss/devilbiss.html#Accessories

[smidgen too]

[The boat is on my property in a 20' X 40' portable structure (kodiac from Canada) I have electricity w/110 service]


Now that's what I need. My township wont let me build a pole barn, but a portable???? :wink:

[scippy]

The hardest part was getting a variance from my town. The good part is, because it's
considered "portable" there's no assessment to raise property taxes www.kodiakshelters.com (http://www.kodiakshelters.com)

[dammmagnum]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

Pete,

Cool tent and nice set up.
thank you
Jim

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy , thank you for the E-Mail .

[scippy]

Artie,

You mentioned you used many gallons of Duratec back when you were with Skater.........Did you use anything like a Paint tank?
I just picked up a 2-1/2 gal. paint tank from Sears (crazy low price)............I'm thinking I could prime the entire hull in one shot
How much Duratec would you say it takes to prime a Mag 27 hull & deck?

The Kodiak structure is by far the best around. It's a great alternative solution to the cost factor of say a "Pole barn" plus it goes
up really quick....................I've checked alot of U.S. mfgrs. before I bought and this Canadian co. seems to be the best though.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Pete , over the years i have used many pressure pot units which are great for moving material when big areas are needed to be sprayed with primer or jell .Scippy , i see that sears has a recontitioned unit on sale for $57.93 , and a brand new one for 109.99 which either way is a very good price considering a friend of mine purchased another brand , and payed around $600.00 for it 8 years ago , and just curious did that unit come with the gun also ?

[scippy]

Artie just the pressure pot w/gauges for 30 bucks........it's a 2-1/2 gal. tank and it allows you to drop a 1 gal.
can of paint in there if you want...............Question, how much paint (Duratec primer) will I need to cover the
bottom and the hullsides......................Also, the bottom of the boat is gel-coated with only the sides & deck
painted. With this in mind & to reshoot everything new again ("re-gel" the bottom & "paint" the hullsides & deck)
would Duratec still be the right primer for both applications??

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Pete, Duratec will be the best primer for both applications , and most likely the cheapest . Hey ole friend , have you taken a straight edge to the bottom of the boat at this point in time , and to tell you the truth ....before i suggest any amounts of Tec , at this time other then 4 gallons for starter's we should most likely talk by phone ...........Pete shoot me your phone numer either by PM or E- Mail ...............Artie

[scippy]

Before I rolled the Magnum back into the shelter I took advantage of the milder weather
& decided to get to work on eliminating the rub-rail completely. I had already glassed the
deck to the hull from the inside and now started on making a seemless bond from the
outside.......after a little prep of sanding & grinding I glassed in a 2" strip of 1708 around
the whole perimeter........this is just the first step of what will be a more modern looking
deck to my sport.........some pics of before & then the first step of bonding in a radius.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Pete l@@king g@@d , and cant wait to see the radius (cap) on the ole girl ! :wink:

[scippy]

Artie thanks for the call & postive comments!.................Also, for suming it up in one word
called "capping" for which (until we spoke) I had no idea is what I've been attempting to do.

[Buddyc]

I like the capping. Good call Artie!

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Allright , enough of the Bull$hit ......Scippy / Pete , we need a Fu**ing update , and where the hell have you been ....................you Dawg .......................

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

well ....................................!!

[scippy]

Artie........Whatsa matta, U forget about me!.................still waiting for that sample of cloth tape. LOL
bad picture but I'm almost there. Got the contour and shape I want just have to radius with epoxy and
some tape to finish..........thanks for the tickle, you old Mamaluk!!70769

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Scippy e-mail me your address and how about a few more pics .:):)

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Pete , http://www.uscomposites.com/cloth.html Pete , i usally go with two layers of 4 oz prior to primer after everything is said and done , filler , ect , ect , when Caping , which is only used to cover all fillers to avoid any or all cracking .

[scippy]

Artie I picked up a roll of 3" cloth tape, but it's 9oz though..........It wets out realy nice and bends to the radius perfectly.

[MDonziM]

Hey Pete,

Any more progress?

- Marshall

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Pete 9oz will work just fine and where are the pics ?

[scippy]

Marshall,
I'm at it almost everyday, but my days start late and end early. I'm in no real hurry since I'm doing all the work myself and still learning
as I'm going, but I'd say I'm still 2 years away from what I think will be a great & thorough restoration to a 27 sport. Acquired (2) 427 ci
Dart long blocks last month so power is already determined.......It's great to be retired and make your own schedule!........vacations??
whenever LOL

Artie,
I'll have some pictures when I get done with the fairing....not much now to see. If you remember, the center of the radius is a oak molding
that was epoxied in to follow the curve of where the rub rail once was.........it's sort of a guide in a sense to crisp line for the radius.

[MDonziM]

Pete ,
The motors sound like a good start. What are some of the details, est. hp etc?
- Marshall

[scippy]

Dart 427's (4.125" bore & 4.000" stroke) Fully forged (crank & rods) AFR 210's (heads) Cams have yet to be
determined (Marine kenetics) but somewhere in the plus 500 hp area............AED will fit the carbs to finish.

[scippy]

Not much to post here, but it keeps the thread going albeit a shallow pulse :frown:
Ready to drop in fuel tanks primed & epoxied (coal tar isn't fun) foam awaits:frown:

[MDonziM]

They look familiar, did you get the upgraded sending units?(i forget the name) What else is new Pete? Is that it for progress?

- Marshall

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

L@@KING G@@D Ole friend , and just curious how is the capping of the rub rail coming ?

[scippy]

Marshall,
I opted for the original Rochester units (you know the ones viewed both from the site glass in the cabin and also dash mounted fuel gauge)
The progress has been reaaallll slow, underachievement to say the least, but once the tanks go in the 427's are sitting real close by!

Artie,
The rubrail "less" look (I think) is great! .....it emphases the lines of the 27 hull. thanks for all the great advice still haven't perfected the finished fairing coat though..........Whatever happened to the 4oz. cloth??........just kidding!......I have it, but not the glass man you are.

[MDonziM]

Foam those bad boys in! I would suggest doing a small test batch with the foam or certainly a helper that day, the foam can go wild. I just got back from Sag Harbor on my brothers sailboat. Saw a red sport there that looked to be in decent shape. I'll post the pics I took of it.

- Marshall

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Marshall , could you post those pics of that red Sport please , and Pete can you post a few pics show the capping . that is in progress ? :)

[MDonziM]

This mag is a volvo boat. Don't love the hatches or the swim platform but looks pretty nice. Also saw this Fino which was pretty cool too.

[olredalert]

----Marshall,,, Very cool Fino!!!!! Bert and I would both like to know more about this one. Is it close to you? Could you get us contact info? I really like to know what serial # it is if possible so we can include it in the "known Fino" catagory. We would like to start a registry at some point........Bill S

[bertsboat]

Where was the Fino? What is the name of the marina? Like to see more if you are there again please.
Thanks in advance, Bert

[MDonziM]

The Fino was in Sag Harbor, L.I. just off the town dock. The engine hatches were open but I did not see the owner around. It was in a slip right next to my brothers sailboat, funny. The boat was in top shape, the engine intake plenums had Fino emblems on them, the bilge was spotless. Could not get any better pics because there was no room on the dock . She appeared to be 27-30' to me with big blocks, bigger than my impression of other pictures I've seen, I assumed they made more than 1 model. I should be out there again in the next week or so and I'll try to get more info, the boat was from NJ so who knows how much longer she'll be there.

- Marshall

[MDonziM]

I can get the number of the marina from my brother if you want to try and contact the owner.

[olredalert]

----Thanks for the comeback, Marshall! I would appreciate anything you can do, and owe you a cold one for sure!!!

----There were only 30 original Finos ever built By original Fino owner Bobby Rautbord. The one pictured is definetly one of those 30. All 30 of them were 29ft 9inches. They are extremely rare and, quite frankly, I thought I pretty much knew exactly where all of the ones left were. This one is a sleeper and Id love to talk to the owner or marina or anyone who might know anything about it.........Bill S

[MDonziM]

Sag Harbor Waterfront Marina 631 725-3886. The boat name is "Indescretion" from Tenafly New Jersey if you can't tell from the picture. There is a chance I will be back there Wedensday, if so, I'll check if its still there.

- Marshall

[bertsboat]

There is a big 150 foot Broward super yacht registered name of "Indescretion" from Tenafly. May be the tender to "Indescretion" from Tenafly.

[olredalert]

----Thanks in advance for your help, Marshall!!!.......Bill S

[scippy]

Marshall,

Looks like a very well cared for & clean 27 sport!.......Would you believe Phil (Alloy) still hasen't delivered on the anchor locker hatch yet!
Nice Fino!!..........I run through Tenefly occasionally, if it's port of call (Marina) can be identified....... I can possibly eye it for pictures.

[MDonziM]

Pete,

Sorry about Alloy... but the tanks look good. Do you think you can finish the Sport for next spring? Maybe some inspiration for you in the fall; I am thinking of doing the " Around Manhattan" run that was Oct. 7 or so last year, I'll keep a spot open if you're interested. I ran in the Manhassett "Gold Coast" run a couple weeks ago, it was fun but we got jumped at the start so I missed all the running heli pics. If you go to the APBA site, nationalpowerboat.com , there are a few shots of Mayhem (who took down the best looking boat trophy) I'm proud to say. We ran the course at 65-70mph but there were a lot of big boys there running 125-150 including the MTI cat that just set the around LI record and the 43' Outerlimits that set the v-hull speed record last yr. at the LOTO shootout.

Looks like I will run back out east tomorrow so I will hopefully see the Fino again and get more intel. The tender idea makes sence since we were on a dock filled with BIG yachts and the more I think about it, the more I think I've seen the mothership.

- Marshall

[scippy]

Marshall,

Phil is a quirky guy. "It's coming any week now" 16 months later!!......You did all you could, he just hasen't delivered yet.
I'd definately be interested in "around Manhattan" let me know the details as we approach Oct. 7th.........count me in!
I'd love to splash by next spring, but it's very optimistic. I put a 5 year time table back in 2010....anything sooner would
be gravy.
Congratulations on "best looker" for MAYHEM..............You did a wonderful job restoring her. You should be proud having
that recognition from APBA...........Nice!!!

[MDonziM]

Pete,

I will definately keep you up on the run in Oct.

Back from Sag Harbor, and here is the Fino update:

She is a tender to a 118' yacht, "Indescretion", home port Tenafly NJ.
I do not have the owners name yet but I should get it from a friend.
No more pictures because the boat was covered and owner was not in town.
According to the crew the boat is a 68' and the current owner bought it when he was 22 from an estate sale in upstate NY ( I'm guessing at least 20yrs. ago) The boat was in rough shape and he had it totally restored. Not sure of the orig. color. She now has 502ci Chief motors so maybe it spends some time in FL? Thats all I have for now.

Didn't intend to hijack this thread Pete...

- Marshall

[olredalert]

----Thanks Det. Marshall!!! We are indebted to you........Bill S

[scippy]

Not easy to manage a 65" fuel tank all alone into the foward compartment with the deck on, but I got her done!
I lowered the tank into the well by lasso roping it untill level and tied off on my fabricated brackets. The tank sits
2" off the bottom and with a 1-1/2" gap around the sides should be the strongest and unmovable part of my boat
when it's all foamed in..........One more to go....GEEEEEEEZE !!

[gcarter]

The tank looks great Pete!
Well done!

[MDonziM]

Looks good Pete. Did Phil mention what the tank capasity is? When I took my tanks out it was a battle too and they barely fit thru the cabin way. I told him to make the new ones slightly smaller so they would go back in easier.