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donzi18 classic
06-09-2010, 03:38 PM
want to go faster with a alpha drive? Check out this new site i found RLCBoats.com. I ordered one of these drives for my 18 classic i have a 383 400hp and this drive will be 3 1/4 inches shorter.My stock drive was 7 5/8 below the bottom of the boat.I was running 73 mph with the stock drive so it will be interesting to see what my gains are when i get this drive back and put on.I will post results when i get my boat back in the water.My goal is the big 80 mph

cutwater
06-09-2010, 03:49 PM
:popcorn: Think you'll reach tripppple digits with this drive?? :kingme:

Mckillop
06-09-2010, 06:34 PM
Thanks for posting that site. That is VERY interesting to me as I am still debating to go with a new Bravo upgrade or stay with an Alpha. Just out of curiosity, what did you d for the water pump? Will you have to add a transom water pick up?

Planetwarmer
06-09-2010, 07:32 PM
I'm wondering if this drive would work on the mid 80s 22Cs with the raised X.

donzi18 classic
06-09-2010, 08:19 PM
it uses the same water pump.the upper case is were it gets shortened the bottom case stays the same.as far as the 22 with higher x-dimension it depends on how high you want to go.it would work fine and you should see pretty nice gains i cant wait to get mine on and get some results for you guys

BUIZILLA
06-09-2010, 08:30 PM
nobody to our knowledge has done this spec drive on an 18 hull yet... I would be VERY leary of being the first on the dock here...
you are in uncharted waters here, there is some extra setback you gain over the SS drive, and the SS is 2 3/4" shorter, so if this Trippledigits drive is 3 1/4" shorter you are losing a ton of trim leverage... the testing that RLC did was on a pad bottom Kevlar Velocity hull and a pad Stingray hull AFAIR...

VetteLT193
06-10-2010, 07:23 AM
Besides what Buiz said tread very carefully with this guy.

I asked some very specific and pointed questions about what he did to shorten the stock alpha and I got nonsense as a response.

The guy got run out of here, OSO, and pretty much all the performance boating forums out there because of his nonsense.

I'm not saying they are bad, just saying to do research and be careful because you'll be a front runner in this deal.

ACE51
06-10-2010, 08:14 AM
kind of pricey at $7k :eek:

BigGrizzly
06-10-2010, 09:35 AM
BTW when he did finally show up at a OSO gathering he pulled 84 mph and that was it. the boat has a 22 degree bottom with a pad. Yours is a 24 degree and round bottom REMEMBER there is a thing as too short. Also that prop is nothing special it is the old Ron Hill chopper prop at least a 20 year design.

RickSE
06-10-2010, 09:53 AM
kind of pricey at $7k :eek:

That's what I thought, especially when compared to the new lower prices of the Bravo units.

Cuda
06-10-2010, 01:14 PM
Thanks for posting that site. That is VERY interesting to me as I am still debating to go with a new Bravo upgrade or stay with an Alpha. Just out of curiosity, what did you d for the water pump? Will you have to add a transom water pick up?
An Alpha is always faster than a Bravo. Less drag. I wouldn't hesitate to put 400 hp in front of an Alpha.

cutwater
06-10-2010, 01:38 PM
Again, the problem with this whole mess was never about Alpha vs Bravo, shorty vs not, or horsepower ratings...

It's about the hype without proof. He may be able to hit 200mph with an Alpha for all I care. He just has to show up and prove it to someone.

He never has, and now he's selling an unproven product for $7k... :confused:

Planetwarmer
06-10-2010, 03:46 PM
Jesus! For 7K, you could have some motor work AND a Black Hawk installed!!!!

donzi18 classic
07-02-2010, 10:00 AM
Woohoo my new drive is shipping in the next couple of days. I cant wait to get it on and run my boat and get some numbers for everyone. I should be boating next week sometime and will be breaking in the drive with the family.Once i get some time on the drive then i will take it out by myself to see where it is with the prop that i have that i ran last year.The drive im getting has fat shafts bigger bearings hd gears its the best and beefiest drive you can get. It is acually going to be an inch shorter than i originally planned on i did go with the low water pickup and i cant wait to get this drive on my boat and see what it will do.Rich has been so helpful through this build he has answered all my questions and has made changes that i wanted after the original order.I didnt want the low water pickup at first but i got to thinking and decided to just do this once and go for the big dog and get the best drive that i could otherwise i would have done it down the road.now i dont have to worry about anything

jonzis donzi
07-02-2010, 11:36 AM
Sounds pretty confident, doesn't he? Hope all goes well but in reality nothing rarely does, or is just a bolt-on and go situation. Best of luck!

BUIZILLA
07-02-2010, 12:46 PM
It is acually going to be an inch shorter than i originally planned on i did go with the low water pickup so exactly how much shorter than a stock Alpha is the one your getting,,,, anything more than 2 3/4" shorter and your in uncharted waters..

rustnrot
07-02-2010, 01:54 PM
Please post some pics of the drive when you get it as well as a couple of shots during the installation.

donzi18 classic
07-03-2010, 10:46 AM
the drive is going to be 4-1/4 inches shorter than a stock alpha.so the drive will be 3-3/8 below the boat.i wont be there for the install my local marina is doing the work but i will let you know how the install goes.The drive should work just fine as for height especially if guys are running arneson drives on there 16 and that worked awsome so im really confident that this is going to work great aswell. I will keep you posted on how everything goes and what the results are. and i willpost picks

Thank you

Sweet Cheekz
07-03-2010, 10:48 AM
Good Luck
Just curious on how many people are running arnesons on their 16's?
Parnell

rustnrot
07-03-2010, 11:06 AM
the drive is going to be 4-1/4 inches shorter than a stock alpha.so the drive will be 3-3/8 below the boat.

Interesting as I have considered a surface drive on a 16 before. So you will be running in surface piercing mode exclusively? Does that mean you need a surface piercing prop?

I'm not very familiar with outdrives as I am a vee drive kinda guy. When you 3 /3/8 below the boat does that mean the propshaft centerline?

BUIZILLA
07-03-2010, 11:38 AM
I predict it doesn't get on plane..

rustnrot
07-03-2010, 11:50 AM
At least with an Arneson you can bury the prop till it gets on plane...

CaribouLou
07-03-2010, 12:15 PM
That's really short....

younger
07-03-2010, 12:31 PM
Seems like a very reasonable performance mod. I have a gen II drive that I was working on that I shortened the upper case and was going to mate it to a 3.0 ltr sportmaster lower. The amount of time and money I have in upper would make this drive reasonable if it lives up to the details listed. There is no dought that with the hydro dynamics of the alpha and raised x of your drive there will be speed. It will be up to the prop and some seat time to squeeze your package to the limit. With my 415 and blackhawk drive in a 16 I have gained 10mph and some. I have yet to see what its top speed is. It hits low 80's with ease, but gets silly if I push it. I still have a need to live! Good luck!

Donziweasel
07-03-2010, 01:49 PM
I predict it doesn't get on plane..

I can't resist. First, it would be a cold day in hell before I would by something from doublediggits. Guy is a complete tool. Remember, he is an engineer but can't spell for chit. Second, he lied about everything, from the speed of his boat to the fact that many Donzi owners used his products. Third, he says his modified Alphas hold up so well becuase of his "specail" blend of 7 different oils. Fourth, when he finally showed up to run his 100 mph plus boat after 6 months of talking chit, he ran a whopping 84 mph. Fifth, he has been run off of every boating chat board known to man. OSO, Speedwake, here, etc..... He truely is the laughing stock of the performance boating world.

Jim, you don't think it will get on a plane? Hell, I bet it blows up in the first 30minutes. Donzi18 Classic, I am not bashing on you, but you should have done some research and background before you dealt with double d. Everything that came out of his mouth was a lie. You just gave the biggest liar the boating world has seen in a long time 7000.00. No one has ever purchased or used one of his drives before. I would cancel you order right now, get a Bravo and an Imco shorty. Even if his drive works and doesn't grenade, 4 1/2 is WAY to high for a 18 IMO. People say Blackhawks are a handleful............

Jim says your in uncharted waters, hell, your in waters no on knew exsisted. I wish you the best, but if that drive hasn't shipped yet, seriously consider cancelling and getting your money back.

Donzi18, here is a quick history on DD. He comes on every boating website claiming his 1987 Stingray goes 100 mph on pump gas with a specailly designed Alpha. He says he is an engineer. He says he has designed specail Alphas and a specail blend of 7 oils. He says 100's of boaters are using his products. At first, everyone is impressed on every site. Then cracks start showing. It starts with him not being able to type or spell, I mean it was bad. Then people start running numbers and start questioning his claims. People start asking who has used his products. He becomes VERY defensive and then seriously abusive. He won't say where he got his engineering degree. He won't say who uses his products and no one in the boating world has ever heard of his products. People ask him to show up and lets see his boat run. He won't. No one has ever seen it and in our world, a 100 mph Stingray would be noticed. Finally, after people put money up and egg him on, he shows and the boat runs 84. He becomes more abusive and is eventually banned from all boating site. People still laugh it him to this day.

Carl C
07-03-2010, 03:27 PM
donzi18 classic, it's all true! I hope it works out for you though. Keep us posted.

Donziweasel
07-03-2010, 03:52 PM
Guys, something has been bugging me since I first read this thread. Hmmmmm......something is not right here. I was pretty involved with the Tripplediggitts thread when he was here, and followed it on OSO, Speedwake, Boatfreaks, etc... I got a feeling for his "style".

1. Classic 18 comes on here with some prelimenary questions and comments. Call it becoming part of the community.
2. Then he starts this thread with "want to go faster with an Alpha?". Sounds just like DD opening post when he was first popped up.
3. The guys goes and spends 7000.00 on this Alpha without asking one opinion of it or about the company. No one would in their right mind would do that.
4. He then posts on this thread more about promoting this drive than someone who is buying one. Re-read what he posted in this thread. Does it sound like he just bought this drive or is it like he is trying to sell the drive? Stuff like this-


The drive im getting has fat shafts bigger bearings hd gears its the best and beefiest drive you can get

Sound like a sales pitch anyone?

5. His gramar is WAY too familar.....

Alright, I am calling you out. If I am wrong, my sincere apologies. We are all one big family, so, who are you? Where do you boat? Who did you buy the boat from? What is the name of the marina who is installing the drive?

10 to 1, if VanAlstine runs his IP address, it will be VERY familar......

I think Doublediggitts has risen again!!!!

Remember, the original DD story was not really about a 100 mph Stingray on pump gas, it was simply an ad for his modified Alpha drives.

Carl C
07-03-2010, 04:01 PM
Guys, something has been bugging me since I first read this thread. Hmmmmm......something is not right here. I was pretty involved with the Tripplediggitts thread when he was here, and followed it on OSO, Speedwake, Boatfreaks, etc... I got a feeling for his "style".
1. Classic 18 comes on here with some prelimenary questions and comments. Call it becoming part of the community.
2. Then he starts this thread with "want to go faster with an Alpha?". Sounds just like DD opening post when he was first popped up.
3. The guys goes and spends 7000.00 on this Alpha without asking one opinion of it or about the company. No one would in their right mind would do that.
4. He then posts on this thread more about promoting this drive than someone who is buying one. Re-read what he posted in this thread. Does it sound like he just bought this drive or is it like he is trying to sell the drive?
5. His gramar is WAY too familar.....
Alright, I am calling you out. If I am wrong, my sincere apologies. We are all one big family, so, who are you? Where do you boat? Who did you buy the boat from? What is the name of the marina who is installing the drive?
10 to 1, if VanAlstine runs his IP address, it will be VERY familar......
I think Doublediggitts has risen again!!!!

Spelling and grammar would indicate that you are right!!!!:popcorn:

Carl C
07-03-2010, 04:39 PM
You guys, this is trippledigits. he's posting on all of the forums again. The next posts will be about how great the boat runs now.

http://www.speedwake.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65862

Donziweasel
07-03-2010, 05:30 PM
Nice catch Carl. I knew something was wrong with this guy. :)

Detective Weasel

zelatore
07-03-2010, 09:53 PM
Out of the west...a voice from the past comes to right wrongs and save us all from the horrors of that dastardly evil known as....tripppledigits!

(DW - good to know you're still out there lurking around!)

Jraysray
07-03-2010, 11:42 PM
(DW - good to know you're still out there lurking around!)[/quote]

:wink::wink: We miss u man! :wink::wink:

rustnrot
07-04-2010, 06:50 AM
Thanks Weasel for posting. I had a bad feeling about this the other day, sounded way too much like a promotion to me.

Does make me wonder though how he feeds himself or his family in real life. Maybe he's one of those Russian spies that surfaced recently...

Donziweasel
07-04-2010, 09:35 AM
Didn't know I was missed. Thanks guys. :)

You know where to find me......... :)

donzi18 classic
07-04-2010, 11:10 AM
This is getting really funny. I live in minnesota i bought the boat from my brother who bought it new in 97 the marina is c&c boat works in crosslake minnesota that will be installing the drive. and yes my drive is on a truck as we speek ans i boat on the Whitefish chain.

Carl C
07-04-2010, 11:18 AM
This is getting really funny. I live in minnesota i bought the boat from my brother who bought it new in 97 the marina is c&c boat works in crosslake minnesota that will be installing the drive. and yes my drive is on a truck as we speek

You know I felt a little bit bad for you for the beating you took on the forums but what you are doing now is nothing but fraud. We know who you are. You do not own a Donzi. You did not buy a drive and we will not believe it when you post that you hit 80 mph with your new drive. You are trying to scam the good people here.:mad:

donzi18 classic
07-04-2010, 11:32 AM
i cant wait till you see the truth because i will have proof because i do boat with a guy here in my town by the name of DickB that is also a registered user here That has a white with green stripe classic 18 and some bad a** wood work done in his boat.So i will be waiting for your appology.Thank you:wink:

donzi18 classic
07-04-2010, 11:37 AM
And also if you still think im full of sh** i was out at the island talking to DickB the day he left to go home and when he pulled into his lift he found out that he had no reverse in his boat on his new drive

rustnrot
07-04-2010, 11:48 AM
Let's take a vote. I say ban this guy, I've heard enough, more than enough!!

donzi18 classic
07-04-2010, 11:59 AM
Go ahead and ban me i did nothing wrong. You think im someone else i am who i say i am. Just because i bought a drive from someone YOU dont like is not my fault YOU dont like him and i really do hope this drive is the best thing that has happened to my boat.I told DickB when i get this drive that i would let him drive my boat and then you can eat your own words. I know you think im from tripplediggits but im not. I am a customer that bought a drive because i wanted the alpha and something different than anyone else. You cant say it wont work unless you try it can you? And also look at my join date um sept 2009 so you still think im trippledigits?

LKSD
07-04-2010, 12:38 PM
It will be interesting to see what really happens hear and I dont mean that in a Rude way..

My thoughts are:

I would be very leary to the point of dismissive on using an alpha that is that short, or with that kind of power in front of it.

One thing to consider is while the Imco shory's are proven as far as reliability & adding performance & speed to most Donzi hulls especially classics, there have also been some cases where a shorty has raised the x dimension to high & that was by just using a -2" shorty!! So 3-4" higher I would say is a probable no no..

Just my opinions & observations, thats all.. But who knows once in a blue moon something surprising happens. Hopefully as the other say.. It will work out for you, Either way I think all here would like to hear of how it ends up, good, bad, indifferent.... :)

Carl C
07-04-2010, 12:49 PM
It will be interesting to see what really happens hear and I dont mean that in a Rude way..
My thoughts are:
I would be very leary to the point of dismissive on using an alpha that is that short, or with that kind of power in front of it.
One thing to consider is while the Imco shory's are proven as far as reliability & adding performance & speed to most Donzi hulls especially classics, there have also been some cases where a shorty has raised the x dimension to high & that was by just using a -2" shorty!! So 3-4" higher I would say is a probable no no..
Just my opinions & observations, thats all.. But who knows once in a blue moon something surprising happens. Hopefully as the other say.. It will work out for you, Either way I think all here would like to hear of how it ends up, good, bad, indifferent.... :)

I predict it will hit 80 mph.:rolleyes:

Jeez. I am SOOOO bored working today...

rustnrot
07-04-2010, 01:12 PM
... And also look at my join date um sept 2009 so you still think im trippledigits?

Especially since your join date is 2009. You're just triple digits reincarnated but laid low for awhile after being banned and rejoined with a new alias.

Next case your honor...

Jraysray
07-04-2010, 01:18 PM
Trip/Donzi18 post the pics and lets see the results. How about posting a pic of your boat right now? Lets see the before pic to mull over.

mattyboy
07-04-2010, 02:02 PM
please post pics quickly doesn't the boating season end in about a week up there???

Donziweasel
07-04-2010, 02:30 PM
Hmmm....on Speedwake you are also from Minnesota and have a Checkmate.

Here is the post from Speedwake-


You guys that run alpha outdrives should checkout this site RLCBoats.com. Looks pretty cool i think im going to order one of these drives and see how much gains i get.Im sick of doing 73 when i know my boat can go faster with the horse power i have.

Now from here-


want to go faster with a alpha drive? Check out this new site i found RLCBoats.com. I ordered one of these drives for my 18 classic i have a 383 400hp and this drive will be 3 1/4 inches shorter.My stock drive was 7 5/8 below the bottom of the boat.I was running 73 mph with the stock drive so it will be interesting to see what my gains are when i get this drive back and put on.I will post results when i get my boat back in the water.My goal is the big 80 mph

Look familar?

No space between the end of the sentence and the next one. Same line, "check out the site I found". Same speed claims, 73 mph and want to go faster. He has been posting on other sites as well. Same horrible gramar as DD. Rich, (tripplediggits real name), you tried to con everyone before. You are a liar and BS artist. Go away. I am with rust n rot, ban this guy.

Jamie, don't feed into it or egg him on. It isn't worth the time or effort.

LKSD
07-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Hmmm....on Speedwake you are also from Minnesota and have a Checkmate.
Here is the post from Speedwake-
Now from here-
Look familar? Same douchebag.
No space between the end of the sentence and the next one. Same line, "check out the site I found". Same speed claims, 73 mph and want to go faster. He has been posting on other sites as well. Same horrible gramar as DD. Rich, (tripplediggits real name), you tried to con everyone before. You are a liar and BS artist. Go away. I am with rust n rot, ban this guy.

Jamie, don't feed into it or egg him on. It isn't worth the time or effort.

I wont, I think you guys are right this sounds to be another guy just immorally plugging away.. I was sorta suspicious about it earlier, but tried to be a good sport. However the evidence seems to point all one way for that guy & place..

Donziweasel
07-04-2010, 02:47 PM
Here is what I will never understand. Why did DD lie to begin with? Since the Alpha SS went away, there has not been an Alpha performance drive. IF DD had showed up and said something like this originally- "Hey guys, my name is Rich and I am working on a custom modified Alpha shorty. So far I have picked up 5-7 mph on a custom Stingray I am working on. If I decide to produce the drive, would anybody be intersted? Would anyone like me to post my progress as I dial it in? Could be a nice drive for a 16 or 18.", he probably would have sold some drives and be respected in the boating world. I will never understand why he just couldn't have been honest. It was a cool project and I think alot of people would have been interested and respected the work he had done. Now, he is just a liar and can never be trusted.

DickB
07-04-2010, 03:07 PM
All, I think perhaps we should ratchet this down a notch. Sorry; I have not been on the forum for a while as I have guests, otherwise I would have chimed in sooner.

donzi18_classic and I met here on the Whitefish chain of lakes here several years ago. We have the only 18 Classics on the chain and the only Classics as far as I know. We run into each other on the lake from time to time, and had a great high-speed run with each other, last year if memory serves. Lately we have been commiserating with each other as both of our classics are out of commission this July 4th weekend.

I don't believe donzi18_classic has an agenda, and since I don't have the background I can't say for certain, but this could be a case of mistaken identity. I know donzi18_classic only as a friendly, straightforward guy who shares an interest with me in performance boats and Classics in particular. He has offered to lend me a couple of props to try, as I have changed my Alpha's gear ratio in the repair. I know nothing of the supplier of the drive that he is installing, other than what little I have read online. I have an interest in equipment options that can improve performance at a reasonable cost, so I'm very interested in seeing this drive and how it performs on donzi18_classic's boat.

It's real easy for things to spiral out of control on these forums, just due to the nature of the communications and limitations of the medium. I 'm afraid that we have experienced that here before. Please, let's all take a step back, relax a little, and be willing to give the benefit of the doubt and maybe even consider that we can all at times be a little hasty to jump to conclusions, especially based on perhaps incomplete information.

One of the great things that I like about the Classics and their owners is the really wide variety of interests and things that owners have experimented with and proven one way or another. And of course sharing results in this forum. Isn't that what the forum is all about? It would be a shame to loose out on this kind of information due to a misunderstanding.

donzi18_classic, my drive is due to arrive Wednesday. Sounds like we could both be hitting the water soon. I'm looking forward to it, for the both of us!

Now, I'm going out on the Sea Doo. It's not a Donzi, but hey, it gets me out on the water!

Dick

donzi18 classic
07-04-2010, 03:09 PM
Yes you are correct on speedwake it says i do have a checkmate.I did i had a 251 convincor and sold that bought a 18 hydro v-king then i sold that bought a donzi z-21 sold that and bought my brothers 18 classic and that is the boat i have now. Im in minnesota and tripplediggits is in newjersey so how does that work? and yes the end of sept.we put the boats away for winter and then its snomobile racing again.




Thanks DickB i appreciate what you said i hope to have my boat in by the weekend.Let me know i have all week off and i can get you those props.

BUIZILLA
07-04-2010, 03:21 PM
the drive is going to be 4-1/4 inches shorter than a stock alpha.


this drive will be 3 1/4 inches shorter. hey, what's an inch between friends.. :shark:

Donziweasel
07-04-2010, 04:24 PM
Dick, thanks for the input. Alright, he lives in Minnesota and has a Classic. I still believe there is a connection between him and DD. Maybe he inquired about the drive and DD said he would give him a break if he promoted it on the forums. Who knows, but there are too many coincidences and the guy is pushing the drive too hard in too many places.

DickB
07-04-2010, 09:53 PM
please post pics quickly doesn't the boating season end in about a week up there???
Oh, man, that was cruel!!

DickB
07-04-2010, 10:50 PM
Let me try to put this in context, from my point of view.

Check out this post:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=548930&postcount=5

I also know PlumCrazy personally, and we are very familiar with each others boats - I've ridden on his, and he on mine. He has been advocating an Alpha SS for my boat as a way for me to pick up a few mph for quite a while. So, I think the concept of raised x-dimension to gain speed, to a limit, is sound.

A potential problem with an Alpha SS, in my opinion, is that it has been out of production for some time, therefore means it is in short supply. That translates to both cost to purchase and repair should parts be required. It also requires some modification to mate with an Alpha Gen 2, which is what I have. So, when my Alpha 2 gave up the ghost, I was not willing to take the risk for a few mph, and I elected to replace it with an SEI equivalent rather than an Alpha SS or this other alternative. My choice.

On the surface, it looks like there is an alternative available that would offer a similar reduced x-dimension as the Alpha SS, and therefore similar performance improvement, but mate with the Gen 2 and offer even more robust mechanicals than an SS. This appears to be a welcome alternative to an Alpha Gen 2 owner to pick up 3, maybe 5 mph or more - who knows?

I know that donzi18_classic is not looking for triple digits, but rather picking up 7 mph or so. Maybe DD has overstated the capabilities of his product, but I think donzi18_classic is smarter than that and has real-world expectations. Can this shortened Alpha do what he wants? Good question. I, for one, am interested in the answer.

So donzi18_classic has elected to give this option a try. More power to him for taking a chance on this option that I was not willing to risk. I, for one, am anxious to see the real-world results. As much as I can be trusted, there will be second-source verification of performance results of this configuration.

BTW, in talking with donzi18_classic, I believe his motivations are twofold: 1) increase top speed over his present, believing that he has more hp available in his current configuration that could be better exploited 2) increase reliability, again baselining his current hp and setup

From what I have read, many question exceeding 300 hp with a standard Alpha. The most popular recommended option seems to be to convert to a Bravo with a shortie, such as an Imco, or raise the motor and outdrive x-dimension. Both can be expensive choices. (BTW, my best friend has describes me as tighter than the bark on a tree, so I am inclined towards the cheaper alternatives.) The path donzi18_classic has chosen appears to be less costly. Will it work and hold up? Good question. Again, I, for one, am interested in the outcome. As much as he and I can be trusted, there will be independent verification of whatever the results. He is not DD, and I don't think that there is any connection between the two other than supplier and customer, but he and I will talk about that soon!

I'm looking forward to on-the-water results.

And no, boating season does not end up here for at least a few more weeks!

BigGrizzly
07-05-2010, 10:10 AM
HOLD UP boys, give the kid a chance. Even if he were triple or DD what does it matter, If he can prove it. Here is what I know. !8 classic hull, SS, 408 HP propped pretty close = 84 MPH. with engine where it is suppose to be. I do know what happens when you raise it up 2 more inches, but will tell that story latter after D18 is done. Considering I am a prop guy I think I know what is going to happen but, will wait tp find out on this install. I AM INTERESTED in what happens on the 18 hull and don't give a darn what happened on a sting ray. Here is my only real issues. I have done many oil test and this 7 blends is total BS!!!! My other one is after $7000 you still have an Alpha drive. It is true that in my particular position it is easier to add hp then a drive---This is proven fact. Now let the games begin . Stop beating the horse and train it. Lets just get along. If you want to fight and belittle go to OSO. The guy is innocent until proven stupid.

gcarter
07-05-2010, 11:54 AM
HOLD UP boys, give the kid a chance. Even if he were triple or DD what does it matter, If he can prove it. Here is what I know. !8 classic hull, SS, 408 HP propped pretty close = 84 MPH. with engine where it is suppose to be. I do know what happens when you raise it up 2 more inches, but will tell that story latter after D18 is done. Considering I am a prop guy I think I know what is going to happen but, will wait tp find out on this install. I AM INTERESTED in what happens on the 18 hull and don't give a darn what happened on a sting ray. Here is my only real issues. I have done many oil test and this 7 blends is total BS!!!! My other one is after $7000 you still have an Alpha drive. It is true that in my particular position it is easier to add hp then a drive---This is proven fact. Now let the games begin . Stop beating the horse and train it. Lets just get along. If you want to fight and belittle go to OSO. The guy is innocent until proven stupid.

LOL!

Well said Randy!

tmh
07-05-2010, 02:43 PM
Well stated Mr. Grizzly.

Carl C
07-05-2010, 06:53 PM
Well, I am sorry if I was wrong.

BigGrizzly
07-06-2010, 08:03 AM
There is no wrong or right here it is information and testing. Lets say it works now we know. If it does not we know that too. REMEMBER I was one the first to closed cooling a supercharged motor. Many said it could not be done and I even use a T-stst. Som pretty big names though I was nuts, well they now follow suit-----Funny

Planetwarmer
07-06-2010, 11:51 AM
Som pretty big names though I was nuts, well they now follow suit-----Funny

So you are trying to tell us that you aren't nuts?

Donziweasel
07-06-2010, 12:01 PM
So you are trying to tell us that you aren't nuts?

Oh, he is nuts alright....... :)

Alright, I will bite. If I was wrong, I sincerely apologize. Dick has a stand up reputation and I trust what he says. Still not completely convinced, but what the hey.......

I guess we will see when the drive is mounted. I still think you are nuts just dealing with DD. :wink:

I wonder if you can fry chicken in his specail blend of 7 oils....... :nilly:

BigGrizzly
07-06-2010, 02:18 PM
Not totally yet.

donzi18 classic
07-06-2010, 03:09 PM
Just checked the tracking number it will be here on friday the 9th.
Hopefully it can be on by sat.and can get the drive broken in so i can get some test runs and numbers in so i can post them and some pics of the drive.

mrfixxall
07-06-2010, 04:06 PM
Just checked the tracking number it will be here on friday the 9th.
Hopefully it can be on by sat.and can get the drive broken in so i can get some test runs and numbers in so i can post them and some pics of the drive.


Tracking # please:fam:

Sorry i just had to stir the pot some more !

onesubdrvr
07-06-2010, 04:30 PM
In all honesty, I would like to see the alpha installed, and the new drive when it's done for a side by side visual comparison. I think it's interesting to change the depth of the drive that much.

Would also like to see independant numbers before and after, my thinking is this;

For (I think I saw the number floating around of $7k) for the drive, if it could handle the same HP under the same driving conditions as a Bravo, I'd consider the drive (of course depending on the handling), simply for the saved time and money of using the existing transom assembly without having to pull the engine or anything like that, but if it was still 100hp shy of being able to handle the same power as a Bravo, I'd go with the Bravo, whether I had the horsepower for it or not, as the bravo conversion wouldn't be that much more than that.

Please do keep us posted, again, I think we'll get independant numbers, and that's all I want,...... I don't have a boat with an Alpha drive, and I won't be putting an Alpha drive on my boat, but I am truely curious.

Thanks
Wayne

Donziweasel
07-06-2010, 05:20 PM
18, I am glad you are getting the drive. As far as anyone knows, you are the first one to take the plunge with DD's drive and I am sure people are interested to see if there is a performance Alpha available.

I am being serious when I ask this question- Did DD say you had to run his specail blend of oils in this drive? When he was posting his claims about tripplediggits, he claimed the reason his Alpha could take 600+ ponies was due to his specail blend of 7 oils he had engineered. He said, other than shortening it, this was basically the only modification. I was wondering if he requires the use of his oils in his drive. If he does, can you send me a small sample? I own a transportation company and work closely with Lubrication Engineers and would like to analyze it for chits and giggles.

If you are on the level, then I wish you the best with the drive. Personally, I think 4 inches is too short for an 18, but I guess we will see. On the other hand, if it works, DD and you might really revolutionize the smaller performance boat market. Please keep us updated. Thanks.

mrfixxall
07-06-2010, 05:34 PM
18, I am glad you are getting the drive. As far as anyone knows, you are the first one to take the plunge with DD's drive and I am sure people are interested to see if there is a performance Alpha available.

I am being serious when I ask this question- Did DD say you had to run his specail blend of oils in this drive? When he was posting his claims about tripplediggits, he claimed the reason his Alpha could take 600+ ponies was due to his specail blend of 7 oils he had engineered. He said, other than shortening it, this was basically the only modification. I was wondering if he requires the use of his oils in his drive. If he does, can you send me a small sample? I own a transportation company and work closely with Lubrication Engineers and would like to analyze it for chits and giggles.

If you are on the level, then I wish you the best with the drive. Personally, I think 4 inches is too short for an 18, but I guess we will see. On the other hand, if it works, DD and you might really revolutionize the smaller performance boat market. Please keep us updated. Thanks.


correction! 650 HP.... i just cant see a dog clutch holding that much HP:bonk:i look at his hd shaft kit and it all looks stock to me,he may be microniteing his gears and claiming it to hold 650 hp once lol

http://www.vincihiperformance.com/MIKRONITE%20MAIN%20PAGE.HTML

donzi18 classic
07-06-2010, 07:09 PM
18, I am glad you are getting the drive. As far as anyone knows, you are the first one to take the plunge with DD's drive and I am sure people are interested to see if there is a performance Alpha available.

I am being serious when I ask this question- Did DD say you had to run his specail blend of oils in this drive? When he was posting his claims about tripplediggits, he claimed the reason his Alpha could take 600+ ponies was due to his specail blend of 7 oils he had engineered. He said, other than shortening it, this was basically the only modification. I was wondering if he requires the use of his oils in his drive. If he does, can you send me a small sample? I own a transportation company and work closely with Lubrication Engineers and would like to analyze it for chits and giggles.

If you are on the level, then I wish you the best with the drive. Personally, I think 4 inches is too short for an 18, but I guess we will see. On the other hand, if it works, DD and you might really revolutionize the smaller performance boat market. Please keep us updated. Thanks.
He told me the only oil to run in the drive is the mercury synthetic and thats the only oil i have ever run in my drive. Why do you guys think that 4 1/4 inches shorter is to much?It will still be 3 1/2 inches below the bottom off the boat.in my outboard days we would run them same or just above the bottom of the boat and it worked great.

Donziweasel
07-06-2010, 07:15 PM
He told me the only oil to run in the drive is the mercury synthetic and thats the only oil i have ever run in my drive.

I thought of 2 scenarios when he was touting that BS. 1. For every drive he sold he was going to say you had to run his special oil. Then he was going to take regular Merc Syn, re-bottle it and sell it for 2-3 times the cost. 2. He was full of crap about his oil. Looks like it was number 2.

Mike, sorry, 650 hp. :)

BUIZILLA
07-06-2010, 07:23 PM
Why do you guys think that 4 1/4 inches shorter is to much?It will still be 3 1/2 inches below the bottom off the boat. if you've ever run an 18 with an SS drive at 2 3/4 shorter you'll understand why 4 1/4 probably won't work.... especially with two people up front, or for that matter, any passengers at all.. the outboard weighs about 800# less than an IO does... eighthundredfrigginpounds... or 4 extra adult passengers... let us know... if it would have worked, it would have been done 35 years ago when Volvo had the Edrive to play with.. I hope you got a money back guarantee..

BigGrizzly
07-06-2010, 09:11 PM
D 18 classic, the reason it will be hard to plane is because of prop aeration. The prop would be too high out of the water. A extension box may help.

mrfixxall
07-06-2010, 09:46 PM
D 18 classic, the reason it will be hard to plane is because of prop aeration. The prop would be too high out of the water. A extension box may help.


or a 16'' propeller or a outboard prop with a smaller hub?


D 18 is he using new cases or his own billit cases?

Phil S
07-06-2010, 09:47 PM
(DW - good to know you're still out there lurking around!)

:wink::wink: We miss u man! :wink::wink:[/QUOTE]


+1

Good to hear from you and hope all is well with the little one's :yes: How big are they now ?

How's the Critter coming along ?

WKR,
Phil S

donzi18 classic
07-06-2010, 10:02 PM
Trial and error if it doesnt work then i will go back to the drawing board.I think its fun testing stuff if it works great. if not well try something else i can always get another upper thats not as short.

OK i have a freind that boats here that has a 30 spectre with twin 300xs and we just raised the motors 1/4 inch because they were too low. they were 1 1/2 below the bottom of boat now there 1 1/4 below and that is were the boat runs best. I understand my holeshot probably wont be great but this isnt a drag boat. I love speed if i can do 80 thats all i want i ran 73 on my garmin gps last year at best with my old drive.It will be interesting to see if this drive works and if it does how well it works.

mrfixxall
07-06-2010, 10:57 PM
Trial and error if it doesnt work then i will go back to the drawing board.I think its fun testing stuff if it works great. if not well try something else i can always get another upper thats not as short.

OK i have a freind that boats here that has a 30 spectre with twin 300xs and we just raised the motors 1/4 inch because they were too low. they were 1 1/2 below the bottom of boat now there 1 1/4 below and that is were the boat runs best. I understand my holeshot probably wont be great but this isnt a drag boat. I love speed if i can do 80 thats all i want i ran 73 on my garmin gps last year at best with my old drive.It will be interesting to see if this drive works and if it does how well it works.

When you going to drop in the steve schmidt 434?:eek:

donzi18 classic
07-06-2010, 11:24 PM
When you going to drop in the steve schmidt 434?:eek:

Im not i have a brand new 383 400hp i just put in there last year that works just fine.If anything i will put different heads and exhaust on and a bigger cam to get it up to 500hp.but rite now the drive is the project.

osur866
07-07-2010, 07:14 AM
I did the Imco -2 on my 18 from a stock bravo and just going up 2" made a big difference in planning, I couldn't imagine going up 4 1/2" maybe 2 1/2-3" tops but I'm with some of the others here and wish you the best, but I'll almost bet you will have a hard time getting on plan if you get up at all, but sounds like a cool project and goodluck keep us posted on the results. Steve

Donziweasel
07-07-2010, 08:26 AM
Good to hear from you and hope all is well with the little one's How big are they now ?

How's the Critter coming along ?

Twins are doing great Phil. 14 months and very fiesty.

Critter is almost there. I have the engine in and plan on firing her this week. Waiting on an oil sending unit and some power steering hoses. That is really all she needs. I was hoping the parts would be here last week, but I think the 4th slowed down the delivery. Might get on the water this weekend. Hope all is well. :)

John

DonziJon
07-08-2010, 06:27 PM
Tomorrow..Friday..is the BIG day. Lot's of predictions here about whether this boat with the DD Super Alpha will get on plane. I predict..no matter what ...it will produce an Excellent Rooster. :wink: ..

DickB
07-09-2010, 11:29 AM
I met D18 at the shop just a few minutes ago and offered to upload these pictures. The prop shaft is about 3-1/2" below the hull. He expects to be on the water this afternoon, as will I.

Conquistador_del_mar
07-09-2010, 11:44 AM
if you've ever run an 18 with an SS drive at 2 3/4 shorter you'll understand why 4 1/4 probably won't work.... especially with two people up front, or for that matter, any passengers at all.. the outboard weighs about 800# less than an IO does... eighthundredfrigginpounds... or 4 extra adult passengers... let us know... if it would have worked, it would have been done 35 years ago when Volvo had the Edrive to play with.. I hope you got a money back guarantee..

Since you brought up the E drive, my good friend discovered that he had to increase the size of the cavitation plate to get his E drive to bite. A good welder can do this modification which might come into play on this modified alpha drive. I would also think a 4 blade prop would help. Bill

cutwater
07-09-2010, 11:48 AM
I met D18 at the shop just a few minutes ago and offered to upload these pictures. The prop shaft is about 3-1/2" below the hull. He expects to be on the water this afternoon, as will I.

Ooooh, the suspense is killing me! Let us know how it turns out.

How does the 3.5" below the hull compare to an Alpha SS? Not to be completely negative, but the finish is a little crummy for a $7k "modified" drive. Just an observation. I hope it performs!

Mckillop
07-09-2010, 12:19 PM
I met D18 at the shop just a few minutes ago and offered to upload these pictures. The prop shaft is about 3-1/2" below the hull. He expects to be on the water this afternoon, as will I.


This maybe a stupid question, but why are there no trim tabs on that boat?

DickB
07-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Tabs are an option, not on this boat. D18 is running a 4 blade.

DonziJon
07-09-2010, 12:43 PM
Looking at the prop shaft there seems to be considerably less spline length than a stock Alpha. The spline on my Alpha begins directly behind the threads. Will the prop need a Special Hub..? I think the shaft was supposed to be bigger diameter than the stock One Inch. :lookaroun:

Interesting holes in the trailing edge of the skeg. Some kind of "Ventilation"..?

Carl C
07-09-2010, 01:24 PM
Interesting holes in the trailing edge of the skeg. Some kind of "Ventilation"..?

It has a torque tab. They are generally used on outboards. It looks like a used drive:boggled:.

boxy
07-09-2010, 01:44 PM
Interesting holes in the trailing edge of the skeg. Some kind of "Ventilation"..?
Isn't that where you would tap the cavitation plate for a drive shower ??

gcarter
07-09-2010, 01:52 PM
Won't the cavitation plate be WAAAAAY out of the water?

I'm curious too.

fogducker III
07-09-2010, 01:55 PM
Whats with the "rivets" on the back edge of the skeg? Or are those holes?

Sorry to be negative but $7000 for that..? Forget if it works or not, but that kind of money for a "re-worked" Alpha leg.....poor finished quality IMO, looks like the paint is scratched/chipped on the edge of the cavitation plate and the gear oil "plug" looks pretty chewed up......hope it works like a hot damn for that kinda change...:crossfing:

BTW. What does Merc think of an Alpha R One HD leg.....?:confused:

boxy
07-09-2010, 02:07 PM
Won't the cavitation plate be WAAAAAY out of the water?

I'm curious too.
I didn't say it was going to work ..... :D

DonziJon
07-09-2010, 02:11 PM
Whats with the "rivets" on the back edge of the skeg? Or are those holes?:

Like Carl said, those Rivets must hold the Torque/Trim Tab onto the skeg. I'm sure those are probably Excellent Quality Rivets. :nilly:

rustnrot
07-09-2010, 02:21 PM
I'm gonna speculate that there is only/was only/will only ever be ONE and only ONE of these drives that has ever been made and this is the one that went 084 MPH (triple digits!) in the past on a different boat.

cvx
07-09-2010, 02:33 PM
Tried a tork tab on an SS, only thing it did was create more ventilation and dirty water for the prop.

Mckillop
07-09-2010, 05:38 PM
:popcorn: Any updates?

DickB
07-09-2010, 06:22 PM
Here are a couple of videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lauk-mYMukghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bqqYUh5NNIThese were taken with me as passenger. D18 also let me drive. The boat came up on plane no problem. Not much of a rooster tail really. Seems to handle well. D18 still has some tweaks to do, and the drive is not broken in yet, so he didn't push it and of course neither did I. Top speed remains to be determined. I will let D18 comment further, but from my own experience so far I have no concerns with capability or handling.

DonziJon
07-09-2010, 06:47 PM
Not much of a rooster tail really. .


REALLY: A bad boy surface piercing drive with Not much of a rooster....? Noticed some Breaking Up noise in that first video.

How about an out of the water picture of the prop on the drive..:yes:

Sorry..I got carried away with disbelief.........:bonk:

DickB
07-09-2010, 07:28 PM
I was comparing this boat to my own 18 with a stock Alpha, and with videos I have seen of Blackhawks and the like. Yes, as you can see in the video, there is some spray, definitely more than my stock Alpha, but not as much as a Blackhawk rooster tail IMHO. Thatís what I was trying to capture in the video.

The noise was simply the limitations of my camera's microphone as we hit a certain speed, again IMHO. There was no change in actual sound that I observed as passenger.

I looked over the transom as D18 was cruising, and the prop did not appear to be piercing the surface to me. That was something that I definitely wanted to see for myself. Maybe it will under full WOT. He and I both ran it briefly maybe 8/10ths.

For whatever itís worth, D18 and I are acquaintances that share a passion for Donzis and performance boating, but weíre not best buddies for life. Heís a great guy and Iím happy to be able to now call him a friend, but Iím trying to be as impartial as possible here. Think what you want of the supplier, but the drive itself seems to be performing well and has some potential, yet to be seen, once it is tuned and broken in.

Perhaps tomorrow I can get some video of D18 making a flyby so we can see the rooster tail as a bystander would.

mike o
07-09-2010, 09:32 PM
Dick B, your better than CNN..... :yes:........:wink:

onesubdrvr
07-09-2010, 09:54 PM
Again, to me the true test will be numbers side by side, and whether or not it's enough of a difference to justify a 7k price tag,...

The SS can be had for cheaper, but there is the parts availability issue

And durability; how will this drive hold up over a year? two? - we'll just have to wait and see

How much to repair a gearset if there is problem, again, if it's 3k for a gearset or for the drive repair, that's something else to look at.

Again, all of this we'll have to see with time, and I hope that D18 posts long term, and I do hope that it works out for him. Good luck to you with it sir, and please keep us posted.

Wayne

DickB
07-10-2010, 09:19 AM
Dick B, your better than CNN..... :yes:........:wink:
LOL. Just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Donzi Vol
07-10-2010, 10:32 AM
Wow...first time I've read through this thread. Looks like it got pretty animated for a while.

Only two observations:
1) interested in seeing the numbers
2) tired of hearing that 4 inches is a small measurement! (sorry, I had to :lookaroun:)

BigGrizzly
07-10-2010, 10:36 AM
Like I said before let the kid show us. Now no one noticed the 1 1/2 spacer on the drive upper. Now for rebuttal. For what was done. 7,000 is in the ball park, maybe a tad high, but not much. Now th e E-Drive with the stiletto bullet is a different animal. It creates problems especially in trin and boat attitude. At this point the less rooster the better, and faster-little discussed in the forums. Explanation will only be face to face by me. Brake in is very important. 10 hours with NO hard acceleration or let off of the throttle. In no way is the first prop the right one. Prop for thr boat and engine and most importantly the driver. What I love is not always the best for you even on the same boat. The way I drive theTXP works great in all conditions. The wife likes a different style. REMEMBER I sell props and have done more the most on all kinds of boats. On The Criterion I have tried 15 different styles and more pitches then I can remember. SO D18 go for it and don't worry what everyone else says go for it. REMEMBER---" Theory is good BUT HONEST Testing is TRUTH".

BigGrizzly
07-10-2010, 10:38 AM
VOL that is what she said.

Donzi Vol
07-10-2010, 10:51 AM
VOL that is what she said.

LOL! Spot on, Grizz...

gcarter
07-10-2010, 11:04 AM
[quote=BigGrizzly;571095]Like I said before let the kid show us. Now no one noticed the 1 1/2 spacer on the drive upper. quote]

Randy, FWIW, although it looks like a spacer, it's really the normal parting line of where the drive comes apart.
I can post some pics if necessary..........

To me, it looks like all the shortening was done in the upper, and the lower is pretty well unadulterated.

handfulz28
07-10-2010, 11:34 AM
Is that not an extension or adapter between the bellhousing and upper mating surface? Is that a Gen I upper with that extension to make it fit a Gen II transom?

It might not be pretty, and this might be the one & only unit ever made so far, but aren't these the first "independent" pictures and confirmation that it at least bolts up and runs? And it got on plane too....:eek:

DonziJon
07-10-2010, 11:59 AM
[QUOTE=gcarter;571100

Randy, FWIW, although it looks like a spacer, it's really the normal parting line of where the drive comes apart.
I can post some pics if necessary..........

To me, it looks like all the shortening was done in the upper, and the lower is pretty well unadulterated.[/QUOTE]

George: I just had a look at my Alpha in the garage and that picture sure looks like a Spacer to me. :lookaroun: Something else I noticed..but didn't make sense.. until someone mentioned the spacer which I hadn't noticed: The Stud Material looks more like Black Oxide carbon steel than SS. Maybe they couldn't find SS studs the correct length for that spacer..? :bonk: Just wondering.

gcarter
07-10-2010, 12:43 PM
Here's a picture of my old Alpha Gen 1 lower all cleaned up;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57151&stc=1&d=1278783403

And now the Alpha Shorty;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57152&stc=1&d=1278783714

So what appears to some here to be a spacer, is actually the upper part of the lower......

DonziJon
07-10-2010, 12:47 PM
I think the spacer in question is between the drive upper and the transom. :lookaroun:

gcarter
07-10-2010, 12:49 PM
I think the spacer in question is between the drive and the transom. :lookaroun:

I'm confused....
Isn't that called an extension?

DonziJon
07-10-2010, 12:55 PM
I'm confused....
Isn't that called an extension?

Could be George...whatever it is....... mine doesn't have one. Do you think I should get one.? :bonk:

EDIT to Post #109: I should have said between the drive upper and the BELL Housing. :)

gcarter
07-10-2010, 01:12 PM
There have been a few for sale on eBay. They essentially rainse the "X" dimension w/o raising the engine and drive.
There have been a lot of claims for them, like added speed.

handfulz28
07-10-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm no hydro engineer, but don't extensions/set backs effectively lower prop height? If I visualize the water coming off the hull at speed, the further back from the transom you go, the "higher" the water is. Extensions require a rise in propshaft height to offset this effect.

Not sure 1.5" extension/spacer/adapter would make much of a difference. I still think it's more to adapt Gen I to Gen II....

gcarter
07-10-2010, 04:59 PM
Assuming the drive was horizontal and the trim neutral, the effective X is the same.
The further aft the prop is placed, and trim increased, the prop will ride higher in reference to the transom than it would otherwise, effectively raising the X dimension.

At least that's how I understand it.

BigGrizzly
07-11-2010, 08:16 AM
John, that is exactly what I meant. Spacer, extension what ever it is it is there

donzi18 classic
07-12-2010, 10:57 PM
I just want to start out saying that Rich at RLCBoats does know what hes talking about when it comes to these drives.Everything he had said about this drive is totally true.This drive works great.Rich was very helpful and easy to work with through this whole thing.I myself am really pleased with the way the boat handles and drives.The workmanship on this drive is great aswell.I have no complaints at all and give the guy a chance he has a great product that can help alot of people here.Yes i paid good money for this drive but it was well worth it.You can get the drive i have or you can get it in many different configurations.He also is going to do his drives in kit form to get the prices down.That way then you can put the drive togeather.The blend of 7 oils?All he told me to run was merc synthetic.I cant wait to go out and do my high speed run to see what it will do flat out.This last weekend i had my family in the boat.My wife,son and my sister inlaw and the boat planed out just as good as if it had the stock drive on it.If anyone has any questions please ask this doesnt need to get all blown out of proportion like it started out as.One more thing before i go to bed is the gear sets are not $3000.00 if you go on his site and look they are a lot cheaper then that.I look forward to posting more results.

glashole
07-12-2010, 11:49 PM
Suprised it worked so well without prop testing

way to go

LKSD
07-13-2010, 07:25 AM
Good to hear it all worked out for you. As it is not always the case with things.

My concerns would still be long term parts availabilities (as the stuff for his mods is only available from him), reliability & true strength. Time will tell how it will go in the long run. If long term it works well then it can be good for everyone, and possibly open some more doors for the alpha boats.. :)

Cuda
07-13-2010, 08:02 AM
Assuming the drive was horizontal and the trim neutral, the effective X is the same.
The further aft the prop is placed, and trim increased, the prop will ride higher in reference to the transom than it would otherwise, effectively raising the X dimension.

At least that's how I understand it.
The stern is almost always lower than the bow.

It's real life vs mathmatical and laws of physics.

None of the changes are worth the effort imho.

Cuda
07-13-2010, 08:04 AM
I just want to start out saying that Rich at RLCBoats does know what hes talking about when it comes to these drives.Everything he had said about this drive is totally true.This drive works great.Rich was very helpful and easy to work with through this whole thing.I myself am really pleased with the way the boat handles and drives.The workmanship on this drive is great aswell.I have no complaints at all and give the guy a chance he has a great product that can help alot of people here.Yes i paid good money for this drive but it was well worth it.You can get the drive i have or you can get it in many different configurations.He also is going to do his drives in kit form to get the prices down.That way then you can put the drive togeather.The blend of 7 oils?All he told me to run was merc synthetic.I cant wait to go out and do my high speed run to see what it will do flat out.This last weekend i had my family in the boat.My wife,son and my sister inlaw and the boat planed out just as good as if it had the stock drive on it.If anyone has any questions please ask this doesnt need to get all blown out of proportion like it started out as.One more thing before i go to bed is the gear sets are not $3000.00 if you go on his site and look they are a lot cheaper then that.I look forward to posting more results.
Is Rich Trippledigits?

donzi18 classic
07-13-2010, 04:36 PM
Cuda, Yes Rich is tripledigits

Cuda
07-13-2010, 09:50 PM
Cuda, Yes Rich is tripledigits
He has been banned from all the boating forums that I frequented. He always lets his bullfrog mouth get his pollywog ass in trouble. He never came close to hitting "trippledigits", and supposedly he has all these college degrees, and yet he can't spell for chit. Even his name is mispelled. He's talked so much Beefeater yang nobody could take him serious. Personally, I wouldn't let him change sparkplugs on a boat.

Donzi Vol
07-13-2010, 10:49 PM
I'm so confused...

cutwater
07-14-2010, 08:47 AM
We all know TrippleDigits' history, and I would venture to say that NOBODY "likes" him... But the fact remains this drive appears to be "working," even though it looks crappy and hasn't hit 100mph... Until D18 runs it hard and posts his top end numbers, what more is there to say??

No use in bashing TD at this point. One of us finally has his drive, and we'll soon see how it turns out. ;)

Cuda
07-14-2010, 10:03 AM
We all know TrippleDigits' history, and I would venture to say that NOBODY "likes" him... But the fact remains this drive appears to be "working," even though it looks crappy and hasn't hit 100mph... Until D18 runs it hard and posts his top end numbers, what more is there to say??

No use in bashing TD at this point. One of us finally has his drive, and we'll soon see how it turns out. ;)
He deserves every bit of bashing he gets. I don't suppose you read his cocky dumb arse attititude replies on other forums. He's a dumbass and deserves to be called one. His claims of having all these college degrees are just ludicrous. And he can't even spell, or use proper grammer? I wonder where he went to college? Walmart U.?

Just Say N20
07-14-2010, 10:54 AM
I guess claiming to have degrees if you don't have them is one thing, but there is no correlation between a college degree and smarts.

Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard (I'm sure his parents were excited about that decision) to start Microsoft.

Inspired ideas can most certainly benefit from the technical expertise needed to turn them into reality.

I am very interested to see how this drive performs. Although I have never run an outboard high on a deep-V hull, I have run them so the bottom of the gear housing was level with the bottom of the hull on shallower go-fast outboards. I had a 16' Laser that ran 87 RADAR mph in 1983 with such a set up.

The initial performance of this drive seems promising, and I might say has probably surprised some people. It would appear there is no problem at all getting the boat on plane, as some speculated.

Keep the results coming. :yes:

RedDog
07-14-2010, 11:37 AM
Yea - we should wait and see the results

Personally, I'm waiting on the Bravo I version. Or should I convert to an Alpha :wink:

BigGrizzly
07-15-2010, 09:03 AM
I am with NO2 and RedDog.. This is about D18 and his NEW drive NOT about triple D.Education does not mean squat. The post it stickies was originality designed for a better super glue. It all happened by accident.Offenhouser did not have a degree, but the designers of the Titanic did

Cuda
07-15-2010, 11:40 AM
I guess claiming to have degrees if you don't have them is one thing, but there is no correlation between a college degree and smarts.

Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard (I'm sure his parents were excited about that decision) to start Microsoft.




I'm willing to bet Bill Gates can spell, and he had people skills. His first partner in Microsoft was the nuts and bolts guy. Bill sold Microsoft to large companies.

TD can neither spell, nor does he have any people skills. If you want to buy one of his drives, whatever blows you dress up. I'm willing to bet I could top your top speed with an out of the box Alpha, and spend the rest on the engine.

No thanks to a Voo Doo drive for me. I doubt TD is smarter than the bevy of engineers that Merc has.

Rootsy
07-15-2010, 12:15 PM
Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Just saying.

DonziJon
07-17-2010, 06:21 PM
I would think that if there were GOOD news about the TD Alpha Shorty that this site would now be bursting. How long does it take to Break In a used drive...? :confused:

When I bought my NEW Merc Apha two years ago..the dealer said there is no break in time. I took it easy anyway..Don't need no problems. :nilly:

Yea Yea..I'm just stirring the pot. :yes:

blackboat
07-17-2010, 06:54 PM
Have a friend that raised his 270 volvo drive in his x18 Donzi over 15 years ago .
The boat worked great,but he also had a 400ci modified small block chevy.
The boat turned 6700 RPM and accelerated like a rocket!
I would say he should see some MPH improvement.

sweet 16 1966
07-19-2010, 10:27 PM
Interesting thread. When will we know it there was top end gain?
Thanks Dick for all you have done to validate. Without your input??

donzi18 classic
07-19-2010, 11:12 PM
The drive has been working great. I know i need to change prop but havnt had the time. and also all my boating has been with my wife and son so no high speed runs yet.Im hoping on sunday i can get some numbers being my family is going out of town for the day.And that its nice out. i just put my drive shower on and my drive stabilizers on so that is done.Then i have to deal with the exhaust noise as they are really coming down on noise here. I do have HPI mufflers but i dont think im legal.Legal here is 84 decibles but we will see im having the local sheriff test it on sat.

Planetwarmer
07-20-2010, 12:04 AM
The drive has been working great. I know i need to change prop but havnt had the time. and also all my boating has been with my wife and son so no high speed runs yet.Im hoping on sunday i can get some numbers being my family is going out of town for the day.And that its nice out. i just put my drive shower on and my drive stabilizers on so that is done.Then i have to deal with the exhaust noise as they are really coming down on noise here. I do have HPI mufflers but i dont think im legal.Legal here is 84 decibles but we will see im having the local sheriff test it on sat.
Put your hand over the tips if you get stopped and tested by LP. It really quietens down the noise if you can handle a little 2nd degree burning.

BigGrizzly
07-20-2010, 09:35 AM
D18, keep us informed-----GOOD JOB

DickB
07-21-2010, 09:25 PM
Is that not an extension or adapter between the bellhousing and upper mating surface?
I think this is needed to allow the drive to trim fully down.

donzi18 classic
07-21-2010, 10:27 PM
Well i went out today for a good run. I saw 76 mph on GPS but was only turning 5000 RPMs it was very humid and i have a full tank of fuel still but i will keep posting as i get results. Im still working with this new drive and need to find the rite prop setup and i think i might have some carb issues?Now its getting down to the fine tuning of things.

8318
07-22-2010, 06:48 AM
What are you running for a prop now?

bigkhuna
07-22-2010, 10:09 AM
What was the fastest you ran before the new drive?

fogducker III
07-22-2010, 10:12 AM
What was the fastest you ran before the new drive?


want to go faster with a alpha drive? Check out this new site i found RLCBoats.com. I ordered one of these drives for my 18 classic i have a 383 400hp and this drive will be 3 1/4 inches shorter.My stock drive was 7 5/8 below the bottom of the boat.I was running 73 mph with the stock drive so it will be interesting to see what my gains are when i get this drive back and put on.I will post results when i get my boat back in the water.My goal is the big 80 mph

donzi18 classic
07-23-2010, 09:19 AM
Im running a 24 bravo 1 . I put a new set of auto meter marine gauges in and im wondering if my tach might be off. My brother is coming up this weekend so he is going to bring his fluke meter so we can test the tach to see if its accurate. It was really really humid the day i ran 76. My carb issue i think i might have to put some jet extensions on the secondary jets. I get a bobble getting on plane and when i get off of plane. Any advice would be great thanks.

PlumCrazy
07-23-2010, 09:42 AM
Im running a 24 bravo 1 .

You'll be faster with a 3-blade.

Sweet Cheekz
07-23-2010, 10:26 AM
You'll be faster with a 3-blade.

And probably handle better. Easier on the drive for sure Thats a great number for 400 hp. A 3 mph min. speed increase is nice.
Parnell

Rootsy
07-23-2010, 11:13 AM
And probably handle better. Easier on the drive for sure Thats a great number for 400 hp. A 3 mph min. speed increase is nice.
Parnell

There's a Michigan 18 with not much more than that 400 chp number and an SS that is capable of 80 - 82ish...

Get rid of the Bravo...

BigGrizzly
07-23-2010, 12:31 PM
Easy on D18, he is just starting out with a NEW twist on drives. Give him a chance so far he is keeping us well informed. There is more than seed here handling need to be good too. True that is not my choice of prop to be sure. he has just broken in the drive let us see what cones up.

PlumCrazy
07-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Not being hard on anyone, just stating fact. 3-blades have less drag and are faster than 4-blades. I ran a Alpha SS on a 20' Baja open-bow with a 400HP 383. I tried lots of props and the best I ever found was a Mirage Plus labbed by Bblades.

donzi18 classic
07-23-2010, 02:51 PM
I just barrowed a 22 bravo 1 to see how that works. What 3 blade does anyone recomend? All i have are 4 blade i have 21 rev 4,23 rev 4, 24 bravo 1 and now this 22 bravo 1 havnt tried the 23 or the 21 dickb has my 21 now but is done with it i just need to stop by and get it.

Carl C
07-23-2010, 03:11 PM
You may not plane out with a 3 blade but if you have one to test, go for it.

cvx
07-23-2010, 10:33 PM
FYI, RLC has a paid ad on S+F web, so he must not be banned everywhere, but I suppose money talks!

mike o
07-24-2010, 09:07 AM
Not being hard on anyone, just stating fact. 3-blades have less drag and are faster than 4-blades. I ran a Alpha SS on a 20' Baja open-bow with a 400HP 383. I tried lots of props and the best I ever found was a Mirage Plus labbed by Bblades.DickB has one for sale so y-not borrow it before he sells it.:yes:..........Im with Griz, best of luck with this.........:yes:

donzi18 classic
07-26-2010, 01:29 PM
I talked with DickB yesterday on the lake and he is offering his three blade to me to try. I will have to get it from him this week. I was sitting here thinking and the 73 mph i ran last year was on a cool day little bit of chop and that was the BEST speed i seen last year. It would run 70 all day long though. And now i can run 76 all day long and it was pretty humid and hot when i ran it that day. So really i gained 6 MPH. I tryed the 22 Bravo 1 yesterday aswell was running 5400-5600 rpm but i went slower. So im going back to my 24 bravo 1 but im going to take that torqe tab off and see if that helps at all. I will try that then i will try Dicks 3 blade and see what that does for me. Maybe this motor likes to be lower RPMs and make the torqe work. I also want to try a 26 pitch 4 blade and grunt it even more to see what happens.

BigGrizzly
07-26-2010, 02:15 PM
Remember all 3 and 4 blade props are not created equal. A stock bravo has never been my choice A21 IS too small!!!!!

Carl C
07-26-2010, 02:49 PM
im going to take that torqe tab off and see if that helps at all.

Good idea. That should help. AFAIK those are for outboards with manual steering.

donzi18 classic
07-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Took the torque tab off tonight and silconed the holes up. I also talked with DickB this evening and we are going to meet out on the lake tomorrow so i can try his labbed 25 mirage.So we will see what happens.



Biggrizzly what prop would you recommend putting on this boat and drive combo?

Carl C
07-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Took the torque tab off tonight and silconed the holes up. So we will see what happens.


The silicone will come out ;)

donzi18 classic
07-26-2010, 10:04 PM
If the silicone comes out will those holes airate the prop?

Carl C
07-27-2010, 07:28 AM
If the silicone comes out will those holes airate the prop?

I doubt it but it might create some turbulence/resistance. I would probably try something like JB Weld, sand it and paint with Mercury "Phantom Black" paint.

BigGrizzly
07-27-2010, 08:44 AM
No the holes will not Marinetex will work too I prefer JB.

mrfixxall
07-27-2010, 09:03 AM
you will need to counter sink each side of the hole for it to stay put! :)

donzi18 classic
07-27-2010, 11:32 AM
So much for testing today. We have thunder storms going through

Tidbart
07-27-2010, 11:46 AM
Don't know the answer because I have a Bravo, but does Merc make a blank for the torque tab. I know I have seen them. Or, can you grind off the tab and make it smooth?

B

DonziJon
07-27-2010, 11:55 AM
Don't know the answer because I have a Bravo, but does Merc make a blank for the torque tab. I know I have seen them. Or, can you grind off the tab and make it smooth?

B

The torque tab being discussed is not the tab on the bottom of the cavitation plate. The tab in question is a verticle tab bolted or rivetted to the trailing edge of the SKEG that Triple Digits added to this drive. It's not Mercruiser.

I sure hope removing the tab doesn't void the warrenty. :frown: Bummer

Tidbart
07-27-2010, 01:31 PM
The torque tab being discussed is not the tab on the bottom of the cavitation plate. The tab in question is a verticle tab bolted or rivetted to the trailing edge of the SKEG that Triple Digits added to this drive. It's not Mercruiser.

I sure hope removing the tab doesn't void the warrenty. :frown: Bummer

Got ya. I see it in the photos. I thought those were bling from a Bedazzler.:kingme:

B

Donziweasel
07-27-2010, 02:02 PM
Donzi18 Classic, I owe you an apology. Not afraid to admit I was wrong. You are not tripplediggits trying to peddle your drives here and I am sorry for busting your chops. Just seemed that Rich was poking around again. Hope you understand, especailly now that you know the history of tripplediggitts. My problem is that I hate liars, which TD turned out to be.

I would like to know what kind of warranty ole TD gave you, if you don't mind me asking? As stated, you are in unchartered waters with the drive. You have purchased this drive from a guy that has been less than honest with many chat boards. I hope it is all that it is supposed to be, and will last many years. :)

Looking foward to future updates.

donzi18 classic
07-27-2010, 05:31 PM
Thanks DW i appreciate the apollogy. Warranty he said that if i broke it that he would be more then happy to fix it for me. The drive is performing as good as TD said it would and he also had told me the gains that i would get which was between 5-10 MPH and im right in those numbers.I know im not running the rite prop but TD is trying to find me some props to try so i can get some more speed out of this. I am really happy with the way the drive performs and how Rich at RLCBoats has treated me. He has been helpful with any questions i have asked.


Rich also has two nice alpha ss drives for sale if anyone is interested. He had mentioned that to me today when we talked about props.

mrfixxall
07-27-2010, 05:44 PM
Thanks DW i appreciate the apollogy. Warranty he said that if i broke it that he would be more then happy to fix it for me. The drive is performing as good as TD said it would and he also had told me the gains that i would get which was between 5-10 MPH and im right in those numbers.I know im not running the rite prop but TD is trying to find me some props to try so i can get some more speed out of this. I am really happy with the way the drive performs and how Rich at RLCBoats has treated me. He has been helpful with any questions i have asked.


A dog told me that allot of the faster 16's and 18's are using this prop on the ss drives with excellent results,may want to give this one a try..

http://www.hydromotive.com/int_quad4X.html

8318
07-28-2010, 06:54 AM
That is the prop I am using on my 18, it is ROCK solid clearly the best out of 10 or so props we tested when I put in the new motor last year.
I am running a high strung Dart 400 with a Alfa SS spinning A 27" Hydromotive 4 blade. 5 grand gave us 78.6 on gps last fall.
I did not have the gps with me last week but the boat ran 5300 rpm (on a bigger pond) so we are past 80 or right at it in my thinking. Boat was still rock soild with the Hydromotive cutting up the water.
Dave

blackhawk
07-28-2010, 04:50 PM
Man some of you guys are brutal!

I too thought this was some form of TD scam but DickB made it clear it wasn't. Yet many of you still rag on this guy? :confused:

And I loved the prediction that it wouldn't get on plane! LMAO With a 3-blade maybe he'd have issues but no way with a 4 blade. He is still 3.5" below the bottom.

D18 - How did the Rev4 work on your boat? I love that prop!

donzi18 classic
07-28-2010, 08:02 PM
BlackHawk,
The rev 4 didnt work as well as the bravo 1 24. The rev 4 seemed to have more prop slip. But i did take the tab off so now maybe it will work better. I talked to DickB today and hopefully tomorrow will be nice and we plan on meeting up and test some props. Im going to try his miage 25 labbed,26 bravo labbed,my 24 bravo 1, and i will bring the rev 4 23. I still want to try a hydromotive but i dont have the cash for one rite now.

blackhawk
07-28-2010, 08:14 PM
Assuming the drive was horizontal and the trim neutral, the effective X is the same.
The further aft the prop is placed, and trim increased, the prop will ride higher in reference to the transom than it would otherwise, effectively raising the X dimension.

At least that's how I understand it.

In this case you are correct as the spacer is between the bell housing and drive(as opposed to moving the whole assembly back) making the trim "lever" longer. With negative trim the propshaft will be deeper, at neutral trim the same and with positive trim higher. It's kind of like a mini land and sea stern jack. Not sure how much that small of an extension would affect it but it's an interesting idea.

blackhawk
07-28-2010, 08:17 PM
BlackHawk,
The rev 4 didnt work as well as the bravo 1 24. The rev 4 seemed to have more prop slip. But i did take the tab off so now maybe it will work better. I talked to DickB today and hopefully tomorrow will be nice and we plan on meeting up and test some props. Im going to try his miage 25 labbed,26 bravo labbed,my 24 bravo 1, and i will bring the rev 4 23. I still want to try a hydromotive but i dont have the cash for one rite now.

Just goes to show every boat is different. The Rev4 slipped less than a Bravo on my boat.

Keep us posted.

sweet 16 1966
07-28-2010, 08:52 PM
There is nothing I like more than an american saga with a happy ending.
This thread has been one heck of a rollercoaster ride from start to finish.
Hell- its what movies are made from. Donzi 18- you will be famous. DW- you are a big man and I hope to meet you on the river Sat. As for the rest of you guys- priceless!

BigGrizzly
07-29-2010, 08:38 AM
First the Rev4 is one of the best props hn most. First that spacer/extension has a huge effect on trim and planing of this drive. After you guys get done with the Bravo testing and record the results GPS and RPMs, I will jump in. Donzi brothers don't buy for testing but borrow. i have been doing this for over 40 years and still don't have it all figured out yet--- no one does.

Rootsy
07-29-2010, 09:01 AM
One thing I learned about the SS on the 16 was that it doesn't take much trim to achieve max speed... 1/4 out was about it... Any more and it would lose speed and begin to develop the desire to chine walk...

Quad IV O/T was the best prop design I ran on my setup... The O/T provides some lift whereas the straight up Quad IV is a very flat running propeller for self aerating hulls...

glashole
07-29-2010, 09:08 AM
WHY HAVE WE NOT SEEN A PICTURE OF THIS YET? :confused:

blackhawk
07-29-2010, 09:41 AM
WHY HAVE WE NOT SEEN A PICTURE OF THIS YET? :confused:

A picture of what? He's posted several pics of the drive and videos of the boat running.

gcarter
07-29-2010, 11:48 AM
WHY HAVE WE NOT SEEN A PICTURE OF THIS YET? :confused:

Here ya go!

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57152&stc=1&d=1278783714

glashole
07-29-2010, 11:55 AM
thanks
guess i just don't pay enough attention

looks kind of like a blackhawk

Rootsy
07-29-2010, 01:54 PM
BTW,

The SS I had utilized an old outboard gear case that had an integral torque tab cast as part of the skeg. I ran it with for a while and then removed it and really saw no difference in speed nor slip numbers...

ButtonManB
07-29-2010, 07:31 PM
Donzi18 Classic, I owe you an apology. Not afraid to admit I was wrong. You are not tripplediggits trying to peddle your drives here and I am sorry for busting your chops. Just seemed that Rich was poking around again. Hope you understand, especailly now that you know the history of tripplediggitts. My problem is that I hate liars, which TD turned out to be.

I would like to know what kind of warranty ole TD gave you, if you don't mind me asking? As stated, you are in unchartered waters with the drive. You have purchased this drive from a guy that has been less than honest with many chat boards. I hope it is all that it is supposed to be, and will last many years. :)

Looking foward to future updates.LOL at less then honest. You must know him realy well to be making those unfounded comments.

handfulz28
07-29-2010, 07:44 PM
LOL at less then honest. You must know him realy well to be making those unfounded comments.


Oh boy, here we go......
http://www.donzi.net/forums/member.php?u=10838

boxy
07-29-2010, 07:48 PM
Oh boy, here we go......
http://www.donzi.net/forums/member.php?u=10838
Yup, you'd figure a Machinist from NJ would at least know how to spell his profession .....
About ButtonManB
State or Province
NJ
Country
USA
Interests
Boats
Occupation
machinest
Welcome back Tripple D.

101.01 MPH

ButtonManB
07-29-2010, 07:52 PM
Yup, you'd figure a Machinist from NJ would at least know how to spell his profession .....
About ButtonManB
State or Province
NJ
Country
USA
Interests
Boats
Occupation
machinest
Welcome back Tripple D.

101.01 MPHI'm not hiding. I am TD the one and only.

osur866
07-29-2010, 08:50 PM
[quote=Rootsy;572946]One thing I learned about the SS on the 16 was that it doesn't take much trim to achieve max speed... 1/4 out was about it... Any more and it would lose speed and begin to develop the desire to chine walk...

That has been my experience with my Bravo Imco -2, best speed is a flatter riding boat anything past a tick over 1/4 trim with mine just does nothing for top speed will carry the bow a lil more but will also induce more chine walk and nets less top end, also backed up by higher slip #'s. Steve

Ghost
07-29-2010, 08:57 PM
"That''s not triple-figures, that's three."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GesF4lec8FY

Cuda
07-29-2010, 09:29 PM
"That''s not triple-figures, that's three."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GesF4lec8FY
You misspelled Tripple.

donzi18 classic
07-29-2010, 10:25 PM
Well i met up with DickB today on the lake and tested some props. I ran my bravo 1 24 first being i took off the torque tab and didnt see any change other than i ran 73 with that prop today versus 76 but the water was flat. Then i tryed DickBs 25 labbed mirage and ran the BIG 78 MPH at 5200-5400 rpm woohoo:nilly:. Then i ran the 26 bravo1 labbed and ran just shy of 5000 rpm and ran 73 all in all it was a great day. I was really suprised that the Mirage had no chine walk but threw a bigger roost than the 4 blades and it did cavitate when getting on plane but it wasnt bad. I think with the rite prop that i will see 80. As always i will keep testing untill i get my speed that i want. I will keep posting updates as i get them.

donzi18 classic
07-29-2010, 10:58 PM
glashole- here are the pics you were inquiring... one of the pics is kinda neat with both donzi's side by side.

Cuda
07-30-2010, 12:25 AM
Yup, you'd figure a Machinist from NJ would at least know how to spell his profession .....
About ButtonManB
State or Province
NJ
Country
USA
Interests
Boats
Occupation
machinest
Welcome back Tripple D.
101.01 MPH
Not just a machinist, he holds two degrees also. :rolleyes:

BigGrizzly
07-30-2010, 08:41 AM
Cuda, get off the education band wagon. Every time an engineer starts dropping the degree thing I ask what train do you drive. I have a couple also and can not spell to save my butt. Noe get into engine building contest with me and good luck, I very rarely loose!

tmdog
07-30-2010, 05:51 PM
Amen. Maybe in his next life things will get better.

DonziJon
07-30-2010, 05:58 PM
We don't need no Stinkin Engineers on this board. They just make trouble. :bonk:

Ghost
07-30-2010, 07:06 PM
I'm confused. I thought the whole spelling thing was purely a joke. Apologies if I missed something. -Mike

Cuda
07-30-2010, 09:07 PM
Cuda, get off the education band wagon. Every time an engineer starts dropping the degree thing I ask what train do you drive. I have a couple also and can not spell to save my butt. Noe get into engine building contest with me and good luck, I very rarely loose!
I just think anyone who throws around having two degreee should be able to own up to it. I've built my share of engines also. I have a picture of me at about four years old helping my dad rebuild an engine. He's the smartest man I ever met, and I've had professors with PHD's. I had to rebuild my first car by myself in the driveway. Dad was proud when his brother came over and I was under the car, so don't think you're the only person to twist a wrench. Dad taught mechanics in the Navy, and I take his word over anything I read on here. He also taught diesel mechanics at Cummins, so don't think because you worked for Honda that you are the last word on building engines. I don't want it to get personal, but you are the one who called me out.

Jraysray
07-30-2010, 10:09 PM
Without being an arse can someone sum up what has been learned so far? Real data?

Ed Donnelly
07-31-2010, 04:48 AM
1) Some people can't spell
2) If you have a degree, don't tell anyone
3) No one is safe from Cuda
4) Cuda can't spell and he doesn't even have a degree
5) Cudas Dad is bigger than your Dad and will beat him up...............Ed

CHACHI
07-31-2010, 06:03 AM
1) Some people can't spell
2) If you have a degree, don't tell anyone
3) No one is safe from Cuda
4) Cuda can't spell and he doesn't even have a degree
5) Cudas Dad is bigger than your Dad and will beat him up...............Ed

I'm dying.

Ken

hdsadey
07-31-2010, 08:14 AM
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! Once a smartass always a smartass! You guys are toooooo much! Thats why I check this site everyday, makes me laugh.

Cuda
07-31-2010, 08:41 AM
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! Once a smartass always a smartass! You guys are toooooo much! Thats why I check this site everyday, makes me laugh.
I will be here all week for your entertainment.

Cuda
07-31-2010, 09:27 AM
1) Some people can't spell
2) If you have a degree, don't tell anyone
3) No one is safe from Cuda
4) Cuda can't spell and he doesn't even have a degree
5) Cudas Dad is bigger than your Dad and will beat him up...............Ed
Fyi Ed, I do have a degree, and any spelling errors by me are more than likely typos typing on this laptop.
Don't call me out. Start no crap and there will be no crap.
If people want to call me out, they do so at their own peril. I don't know why you jumped on the bandwagon, but ya pay your money, and ya take ya chances.
I'm curious, why did you jump on the give Cuda a hard time bandwagon?

fogducker III
07-31-2010, 09:40 AM
:nilly::bonk::popcorn:

Cuda
07-31-2010, 10:08 AM
:nilly::bonk::popcorn:
There's a shocker. :rolleyes:

tmh
07-31-2010, 03:20 PM
The response to a taunt has become humorously predictable and taunts will likely continue until the anticipated response stops. I would discontinue dissing others for spelling, degrees, and mechanical abilities if I wanted things to subside. Like my mother used to say, if you don't have something good to say then don't say it. I say this not to cross anyone but something to consider. I actually find all this very entertaining.

mrfixxall
07-31-2010, 04:52 PM
Fyi Ed, I do have a degree, and any spelling errors by me are more than likely typos typing on this laptop.
Don't call me out. Start no crap and there will be no crap.
If people want to call me out, they do so at their own peril. I don't know why you jumped on the bandwagon, but ya pay your money, and ya take ya chances.
I'm curious, why did you jump on the give Cuda a hard time bandwagon?


cuda, what ed said was funny, not to jump on the band wagon but to entertain..if it makes a difference i don't have any degrees either,well maybe a few in martial arts when i was a kid but that's it..

lighten up buddy, i get that way somtimes but after a few comments i realise their just wisecracks and I'm good with that..

DickB
08-01-2010, 01:39 PM
Without being an arse can someone sum up what has been learned so far? Real data?
D18 ran 73 last year with the stock Alpha and I believe was using a 21p 4-blade. Motor is a 383 400 hp. With the shortened drive, best run to date is 78 mph with the labbed Mirage Plus 25p 3-blade. The boat comes up on plane just fine, but you can momentarily blow out some props while doing so. I think that's a fairly complete summary of the data so far.

DonziJon
08-01-2010, 06:27 PM
As you all know, I am NOT one to Stir The POT....BUT........... I miss SOFA KING. :kingme: It's times like these that we need a different perspective. :yes:

mike o
08-01-2010, 06:48 PM
I will be here all week for your entertainment.Have you ever been to the Philippines?........:kingme:

gcarter
08-01-2010, 07:16 PM
As you all know, I am NOT one to Stir The POT....BUT........... I miss SOFA KING. :kingme: It's times like these that we need a different perspective. :yes:

Ya mean an enebriated rant? :wink:

BigGrizzly
08-02-2010, 07:30 AM
well Cuda. when my grandfather taugh me to build an engine from scratch, yes from scratch no premade anything, they did not even own a camera. My proof is in my accomplishments

Ed Donnelly
08-02-2010, 08:45 AM
You misspelled Tripple.


I little humor there Cuda

My Daddy didn't teach me anything, as I hardly remember him

People that really know me, know how many degrees I have

I use spell check

Sticking up for my Canadian friends

If you want to beat me up, you will have to come to Canada
Being a hardass criminal I can't get into the states even to visit my 86 yr. old Mom in Florida (an opening for you)................................Ed

DonziJon
08-02-2010, 09:45 AM
Ya mean an enebriated rant? :wink:

I had no idea George. I always thought he was just kidding around. I don't recall noticing any nastiness in his tone... or maybe I'm tone deaf. :nilly:

Carl C
08-02-2010, 09:49 AM
Sticking up for my Canadian friends
If you want to beat me up, you will have to come to Canada
Being a hardass criminal I can't get into the states even to visit my 86 yr. old Mom in Florida (an opening for you)................................Ed

I'm in Canada all the time. Just can't go ashore :(. We did get adventurous and went up the Thames River a bit before turning back. There is a restaurant there that we would have liked to check out. We talked with some Canadians last week on Lake Huron who were also bummed that they couldn't visit American ports. They said that before 9/11 no one cared. Any way, once I get my enhanced driver's license I can come up to Toronto and take care of Cuda's light work! ;) (Just kidding, Ed. You are a good friend.)

mattyboy
08-02-2010, 09:58 AM
D18 ran 73 last year with the stock Alpha and I believe was using a 21p 4-blade. Motor is a 383 400 hp. With the shortened drive, best run to date is 78 mph with the labbed Mirage Plus 25p 3-blade. The boat comes up on plane just fine, but you can momentarily blow out some props while doing so. I think that's a fairly complete summary of the data so far.

Thanks Dick B

in a nutshell

so 5 mph pickup the number used as an avg. when going to a shorty

or did my math skills and spelling go a rye here. I'll leave that to MENSA members here.

ButtonManB
08-02-2010, 10:12 AM
Thanks Dick B

in a nutshell

so 5 mph pickup the number used as an avg. when going to a shorty

or did my math skills and spelling go a rye here. I'll leave that to MENSA members here.He picked up more then that. That 73 was all time best with all the perfect condtions and the moons aligned with a tail wind. I think from what he has told me and he has to chime in to tells us. His boat went a solid 69 - 70 mph all the time any day any condtions. He hasn't seen his best yet. He probly could have seen 79 to 80 that day from what he has told me.

gcarter
08-02-2010, 10:14 AM
I had no idea George. I always thought he was just kidding around. I don't recall noticing any nastiness in his tone... or maybe I'm tone deaf. :nilly:

He was just always drunk.
Wes and Jimmi Shook (sp?) met him once.

Jraysray
08-02-2010, 03:24 PM
He was just always drunk.
Wes and Jimmi Shook (sp?) met him once.

I remember the story. Jim S needs to tell it to ya.

fogducker III
08-02-2010, 06:35 PM
He picked up more then that. That 73 was all time best with all the perfect condtions and the moons aligned with a tail wind. I think from what he has told me and he has to chime in to tells us. His boat went a solid 69 - 70 mph all the time any day any condtions. He hasn't seen his best yet. He probly could have seen 79 to 80 that day from what he has told me.

Say he got an extra 6 or 7mph, which at this point is generous....for $7000 plus playing around with the set-up...? IMHO money not well spent. Glad he has a running boat but....:eek:

ButtonManB
08-02-2010, 09:17 PM
Say he got an extra 6 or 7mph, which at this point is generous....for $7000 plus playing around with the set-up...? IMHO money not well spent. Glad he has a running boat but....:eek:
He didn't pay 7k plus

fogducker III
08-02-2010, 10:27 PM
He didn't pay 7k plus


So what did he pay? My point is, a lot of money for an un-proven leg that needs tweaking....Cudos to you for trying something different, but in my opinion you need to prove the product before flogging it....:wink:

ButtonManB
08-02-2010, 11:10 PM
So what did he pay? My point is, a lot of money for an un-proven leg that needs tweaking....Cudos to you for trying something different, but in my opinion you need to prove the product before flogging it....:wink:
He did, He bought the drive he bolted it on the boat and gained 8 mph just like the claims said he would. LOL the leg doesn't not need tweaking, he is trying to see what the best prop works for his applacation. Just like everybody else does. Your missing the point it's a bolt on drive to raise your x demension with out spending thousands of dollars to get the trasnom glassed up, redo your steering re-do your exshaust system to buy another drive, re-do your engine hatch, now because the motor hits it now, longer front engine mounts, the list goes on and on. It's a simple bolt up from 1 inch shorter to 5 inches shorter. It's a simple deal that anybody can bolt on with basic hand tools.

mrfixxall
08-02-2010, 11:27 PM
He did, He bought the drive he bolted it on the boat and gained 8 mph just like the claims said he would. LOL the leg doesn't not need tweaking, he is trying to see what the best prop works for his applacation. Just like everybody else does. Your missing the point it's a bolt on drive to raise your x demension with out spending thousands of dollars to get the trasnom glassed up, redo your steering re-do your exshaust system to buy another drive, re-do your engine hatch, now because the motor hits it now, longer front engine mounts, the list goes on and on. It's a simple bolt up from 1 inch shorter to 5 inches shorter. It's a simple deal that anybody can bolt on with basic hand tools.


Sucess! Heres my point, if your going to sell thease drives for 7k they should be 100% new..Not a used case that has beed chopped up and welded back together..Either have them machined out of billit or have them casted as new and then machine them then put your guts into them..

im not gettin on you its just my o2 :)

Rootsy
08-03-2010, 07:08 AM
Or you could just find yourself an Alpha SS for a whole lot less money and bolt it on... instant 6 - 8....

BigGrizzly
08-03-2010, 09:36 AM
Now guys slow it down. First Rich,here are the rules, Don't take anything personal real attainable numbers more then once, un truths are NOT acceptable. Violate these rules and your gone. Foger said plus which includes installation. Trust me on this for $7000, Rootsy and I can give te HP needed to add that speed easily. I will not get into the TD thing, here--don't care. Now as for the rest of you D18 is not .done YET. Remember every thing you say here ultimately affects him, the only thing he did was try something different. Remember I pot a Konrad on my Criterion too. I am still not done testing-in my cae it is all good. Sooo everybody cool your jets. In the end only MPH matters.

tmh
08-03-2010, 09:36 AM
I'd like to know the difference in results between the $7k drive and an SS as Rootsy was bringing up. I'm curious about the impact on handling and drivability compared to an SS as well as compared to the stock Alpha. As to cost, it will take a nice increase in horsepower to achieve a 7-8 mph increase from a consistent 71 mph to a consistent 78 mph in an 18. $7k may not be a bargain but a new engine with higher fuel consumption isn't going to be much cheaper when everything is done and completed. The amount spent on changing exhausts or adding hydraulic steering isn't a bargain either but people do it all the time and I don't see anyone casting negativity about those modifications.

I will have $5k into the DPX conversion including a prop set and steering modifications, net of selling my Alpha Gen 2, and the boat may not pick up any speed when I'm done. Hopefully I have a better foundation for a bigger engine down the road with better handling and the DPX should be more durable than the Alpha. I do gain hydraulic steering with the DPX conversion as well. Until I actually see the results I question whether I'm spending money wisely but I stepped into this project risking a bunch of time and money.

We all benefit learning something from these projects and I appreciate the help and support I've gotten on my project. I hope I can do a lot of the labor myself but I'm intimidated as I am certain I don't have a fraction of the mechanical knowledge and ability of many of you. Hopefully I'll learn a bunch about my boat but I doubt my mechanical abilities will increase much.
T.M. Hayes

BigGrizzly
08-03-2010, 09:55 AM
TMH, good points. on my boat with no other changesHy-steering was 2 mph increase ]however the DP will be less because of the counter rotating props.. I have GPS Rootsy's boat at over 80. Forrest's 16 with a 302 ford at 70 mph, i10 years ago.

Carl C
08-03-2010, 10:03 AM
JMO, but I think that 6-7 mph for $7,000 is money well spent......

Rootsy
08-03-2010, 10:12 AM
No matter how you cut it... The RLC upper, an SS upper or a stock Alpha upper are all the same animal. The carrier, gearsets and housing around them are all more or less identical. The oil is captive and at speed the upper is out of the water... The heat generated plus the load on the helical bevel gears results in case distortion which are not good for gear life. Eventually the RLC gearset is going to lose a tooth, just like the SS and alpha drives do under heavy prolonged loads, high RPM and shock loading conditions.

One question I would like to see answered is what the oil temperature within that cavity is at speed. With and without a shower... A thermocouple inside there would be awesome with data logged under given operating conditions and scenarios... Strain gauges on the housing and data collected would be pretty cool too...

Things I would surely want to do before I sold a drive to the public... no matter how much money I sold it for... With all of the cutting and welding performed on the RLC upper I am surprised it remains stable... With that much mass you surely have to get it hot to get that filler metal to bridge, flow and achieve proper penetration...

Mercury Marine has done this testing and it will never be released publicly. That's why they limit the HP applicable in front of certain drives. We push these drives well beyond their FoS threshold... Significantly modifying castings without doing the afterward analysis is a recipe for possible disaster... I hope it isn't but I'd be leery.

Rootsy
08-03-2010, 10:14 AM
JMO, but I think that 6-7 mph for $7,000 is money well spent......
In a larger, heavier boat... sure... on a 16 or 18.... no... JMHO.

ButtonManB
08-03-2010, 10:31 AM
Sucess! Heres my point, if your going to sell thease drives for 7k they should be 100% new..Not a used case that has beed chopped up and welded back together..Either have them machined out of billit or have them casted as new and then machine them then put your guts into them..

im not gettin on you its just my o2 :)I'm in the process now of doing that. I'm working on getting them casted. Im working on the molds now and im hoping in the next 3 months or so I will have my first casted peice. I take new casting and cut them up just for your fyi.

ButtonManB
08-03-2010, 10:41 AM
I'm coming out with a do it your self kit. Cutting the price in half and you can have your guy install all your parts from your drive into the new shorter deal. It will save alot of money and time. Again this is just a cheap allternitve to rasiing your X demension. This mod isn't for everybody, but for some one who is looking to get the most out of what they have.

Donziweasel
08-03-2010, 10:48 AM
LOL at less then honest. You must know him realy well to be making those unfounded comments.

Button man, just catching up here as I have been out of town. I really don't think at this point you want to bring up the past. I think it was pretty well documented you/Rich were not honest when you first came on the scene. I am not going to go through the list of what dishonest things were said, but it was lengthy. The comments were "founded" and I can very easily start posting the links to the threads.

You have sold a drive and have a captive audience right now. If I were you, I would not do anything to upset that right now. I am with Grizz in that I am not wanting to go back into the whole TD thing. Push it and that might quickly change. Just some freindly advice. Concentrate on your client and the questions being asked, not what transpired before.

osur866
08-03-2010, 11:43 AM
JMO, but I think that 6-7 mph for $7,000 is money well spent......
For $7K I think there could have been money better spent IMO, take the money that was spent on his motor already and put that towards hyd. Steering and the 7K towards a SC and he'd have a mid 80's boat that would be safer to operate at his speed goal of 80 just my opinion, I'd have concerns with 400 HP thru not only and Alpha but one that is close to surfacing knowing that it's going to be loaded up on flight and re entry. So far he has had success and that's great he has tried something that no one has done and it has worked out. I'd just have concerns on the ability of the drive to stay together over time and 7k is a lot for a drive that being taxed with his HP

Carl C
08-03-2010, 12:33 PM
For $7K I think there could have been money better spent IMO, take the money that was spent on his motor already and put that towards hyd. Steering and the 7K towards a SC and he'd have a mid 80's boat that would be safer to operate at his speed goal of 80 just my opinion, I'd have concerns with 400 HP thru not only and Alpha but one that is close to surfacing knowing that it's going to be loaded up on flight and re entry. So far he has had success and that's great he has tried something that no one has done and it has worked out. I'd just have concerns on the ability of the drive to stay together over time and 7k is a lot for a drive that being taxed with his HP

You know, it's all relative. The faster you are going the more expensive it is to add speed. And, yes, durability is the big question mark now. These drives have been claimed to live under high rpms and speeds approaching 100 mph. Quite a claim for an Alpha.

PlumCrazy
08-03-2010, 01:46 PM
I'd have concerns with 400 HP thru not only and Alpha but one that is close to surfacing knowing that it's going to be loaded up on flight and re entry.

I ran as much as 625HP through an Alpha SS on a heavier '88 Baja Sunsport 196. The 357 small-block made 500HP on 110 and then it had a 125HP shot of nitrous. RPM's were 6,000 and 6,500 on the nitrous with speeds of 79 and 84 respectively. After 4 straight seasons of this, I had the drive checked out and it looked like new. If you drive smart and run a shower, 400HP is no problem, especially with such a light boat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/dpluhm/Baja/speed2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/dpluhm/Baja/baja2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/dpluhm/baja_for_sale/boat_3.jpg

ButtonManB
08-03-2010, 02:15 PM
I ran as much as 625HP through an Alpha SS on a heavier '88 Baja Sunsport 196. The 357 small-block made 500HP on 110 and then it had a 125HP shot of nitrous. RPM's were 6,000 and 6,500 on the nitrous with speeds of 79 and 84 respectively. After 4 straight seasons of this, I had the drive checked out and it looked like new. If you drive smart and run a shower, 400HP is no problem, especially with such a light boat.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/dpluhm/Baja/baja2.jpg


Whos headers are in this pic very nice

PlumCrazy
08-03-2010, 02:49 PM
Whos headers are in this pic very nice

CMI's

Cuda
08-03-2010, 03:17 PM
You know, it's all relative. The faster you are going the more expensive it is to add speed. And, yes, durability is the big question mark now. These drives have been claimed to live under high rpms and speeds approaching 100 mph. Quite a claim for an Alpha.
Once you go faster than 70, the costs go up exponetially.

blackhawk
08-03-2010, 03:25 PM
JMO, but I think that 6-7 mph for $7,000 is money well spent......

I agree especially seeing that his engine reliability stayed the same. I've seen people spend a hell of a lot more money for less speed.

Remember this is D18's thread not Rich's. I can't believe the lack of respect on this thread.

GBond
08-03-2010, 07:35 PM
I agree especially seeing that his engine reliability stayed the same. I've seen people spend a hell of a lot more money for less speed.

Remember this is D18's thread not Rich's. I can't believe the lack of respect on this thread.

Yeap....me too

Marlin275
08-03-2010, 07:59 PM
I can't believe the lack of respect on this thread.

There is a history here
that is not
forgotten . . .

GBond
08-03-2010, 08:25 PM
There is a history here
that is not
forgotten . . .

I understand your concern..... it's been obviously noted by all,from way back in the hay day!

It's a done deal...appreciate D18 for posting input/outcome.

I like to learn, good, bad or indifferent!

blackhawk
08-04-2010, 07:23 AM
There is a history here
that is not
forgotten . . .

I'm well aware of the history and D18 had nothing to do with it.

He has taken the initiative to do something that few(or none?) have done on this board. And instead of interest and support he gets thrown under the bus by many of you.

Marlin275
08-04-2010, 07:40 AM
I'm well aware of the history and D18 had nothing to do with it.


Talking about Triple D . . .

osur866
08-04-2010, 07:44 AM
I think what D18 has done is very cool and I have to give credit where credit is due, but for me I think there is a better way to spend that kinda of money rather than spending it on a ticking time bomb. Yes I very much awhere of Alpha SS's taking lots of power but this really isn't just your standard SS now is it?? Only time will tell how this special drive stands up. I'll bet if it does stand up and the price would come down by 50% or so I'd betcha there could be a lot sold to just the members on this board, but again time will tell.

BigGrizzly
08-04-2010, 08:22 AM
In the drives defense. Alphaparts are easy to get SS parts are not.

Sweet Cheekz
08-04-2010, 08:25 AM
Grizz
As I understand it there is only one part that is not the same
Parnell

Rootsy
08-04-2010, 08:41 AM
Grizz
As I understand it there is only one part that is not the same
Parnell

cases are different, vertical drive shaft is different and the wear pads on the side are not present on an alpha. Other than that... Not a whole lot is different.

BigGrizzly
08-04-2010, 08:44 AM
How many parts have to be unavailable for the drive not usable.

Sweet Cheekz
08-04-2010, 09:44 AM
I meant internal parts, just the verticle shaft but grizz I agree One broken shaft and its a big problem except for me right now since I have a spare.
Parnell