Scorpion to GM LSA Swap...?

[fogducker III]

Good morning boys and girls......I am looking at swapping out my Scorpion 6.2L 377ci/377hp motor for one of the GM LSA SC motors......after some research I have found that almost all of the external components of the Scorpion will swap over to the LSA........I will have to install a closed cooling system on the LSA and confirm bellhousing pattern and pullys etc.......but my Stainless Marine exhaust, raw water pump, power steering pump, remote oil unit, oil cooler/power steering cooler etc should marry right up...?

My question is, will my ECM with all the existing wiring harness work with the LSA ? I have been told the LSA "ECM wiring kit" that comes from GM for that motor has the MEFI5.....I am under the impression my Scorpion has the ECM 555 ? How do I confirm what I have and what I would need? Thanks for any input......

can you say 530hp.....:cool:


http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/marine/2010_6200_LSA_Marine.pdf

[cutwater]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the exhaust won't work...

[fogducker III]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the exhaust won't work...

Pray tell...? I am all ears at this point.........both blocks are GM 6.2L...is it because of the super charger unit?

These are the dimensions I have for the "new" motor...

[cutwater]

Pray tell...? I am all ears at this point.........both blocks are GM 6.2L...is it because of the super charger unit?

These are the dimensions I have for the "new" motor...

The LS is a different family of engines altogether. The exhaust ports are evenly-spaced on the LS, while the traditional "small block" is that 1--11--1 format. IIRC, not many people make marine exhaust for the LS. Others who are more knowledgeable than me will chime in soon :)

[mrfixxall]

who you calling boy with a yard of dil and a bucet of balls? :)

jeremy..i think it would be easier to remove your efi, get holley's marine set up http://www.holley.com/72203101.asp then add a procharger to your engine,its totally programable with your laptop and they give you all the software to do it....call procharger im sure they can put a system together for you.


edit!! the motor your lookinf at is a ls model,the exhaust has 4 seperate ports and its also a crank trigger ignition system which also fires the injectors..all your ecm stuff wont work..

[CaribouLou]

As for the ECM, I know there's a user on Offshoreonly that specializes in Marine ECU programming, probably worth finding him over there and asking him.


but I will say I want to see this happen ASAP. And then I want to drive it.

[fogducker III]

Thank you for the input gentlemen, good points. The exhaust, I did not realize the difference, the ECM I kinda knew wouldn't work.

As for Pro-charger and re-programing and rebuilding the exhisting motor etc....I have learnt that living here on the Island, there are very few resources for things like that, which equals big $$$

The Scorpion is starting to get a few hours on her and before she breaks I wanted to figure out the best, easiest and least exspensive route to go..........it is easy for people to suggest "just throw a 525 in her" they are not doing the actual work or paying for it....:wink::)

[cutwater]

Here are the two different exhaust configurations...

LS (L)
Traditional SBC (R)

I will say... I have wanted to put the LSA in a boat for a while. Would be sweet if you can pull it off!

[fogducker III]

Here are the two different exhaust configurations...

LS (L)
Traditional SBC (R)

I will say... I have wanted to put the LSA in a boat for a while. Would be sweet if you can pull it off!

I am trying to pull it off.....:bonk::boggled::)

So I guess what I am looking at is pulling the Scorpion, seeing what I can use on the LSA and then buying the additional parts I need and selling the remains of the Scorpion to buy those parts....:yes:

From what I gather, I need an LSA with a closed cooling system, exhaust system, MEFI5 ECM kit and...???:confused:

Will the current old style bellhousing marry up? At least with the measurments I received I know it will fit under the hatch, clear the inside of the transom and the forward bulkhead...:wink:

[mrfixxall]

jeremy,why stop at 530 hp..their are endless optiond you know EH !!


http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/pdf/111-412.pdf

[fogducker III]

jeremy,why stop at 530 hp..their are endless optiond you know EH !!


http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/pdf/111-412.pdf

Money, the other half, balls only so big and a few brain cells I have left say 530hp in an 18C is "enough".......:wink:

[VetteLT193]

As already said the LSx family is totally different than previous GM small blocks.

For all intents and purposes plan on nothing being interchangeable / reusable from one engine to the other.

I am not even sure on the bell housing. The starters on the LS stuff are different. The accessories in the automotive world are all different and I imagine you'll have a hell of a time with swapping a marine serpentine system over.

When GM made the LS series I think it was a marketing plan to keep them "350 Chevy" to not scare off the old faithful. Reality is the engine is a total ground up redesign and there are maybe only a couple parts that will interchange between the Gen I and II engines and the Gen III and IV (LS) engines.

[fogducker III]

As already said the LSx family is totally different than previous GM small blocks.

For all intents and purposes plan on nothing being interchangeable / reusable from one engine to the other.

I am not even sure on the bell housing. The starters on the LS stuff are different. The accessories in the automotive world are all different and I imagine you'll have a hell of a time with swapping a marine serpentine system over.

When GM made the LS series I think it was a marketing plan to keep them "350 Chevy" to not scare off the old faithful. Reality is the engine is a total ground up redesign and there are maybe only a couple parts that will interchange between the Gen I and II engines and the Gen III and IV (LS) engines.

The GM LSA motor IS marine......nothing automotive about it other than the pedigree.......my raw water pump, power steering pump, serpintine pullys, oil/power steering cooler, fuel pump etc all swap over according to GM...........

Bottom line, from what I can gather, I need the short block LSA with new exhaust/riser system, MEFI5 ECM kit and a closed cooling system and I am good to go..........sell the Scorpion to recover some $$$...:)


http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/marine/2010_6200_LSA_Marine.pdf

[VetteLT193]

The GM LSA motor IS marine......nothing automotive about it other than the pedigree.......my raw water pump, power steering pump, serpintine pullys, oil/power steering cooler, fuel pump etc all swap over according to GM...........

Bottom line, from what I can gather, I need the short block LSA with new exhaust/riser system, MEFI5 ECM kit and a closed cooling system and I am good to go..........sell the Scorpion to recover some $$$...:)


http://www.gm.com/experience/technology/gmpowertrain/engines/specialized/marine/2010_6200_LSA_Marine.pdf

I know it is marine. What I am referring to is this swap is old news in the automotive world and in that world the accessories don't swap. If you were to have say, a 1997 Camaro with the LT1 and wanted to swap in an LS1 you need an LS1 that is fully dressed. The accessories do not bolt on.

So like I said, no idea how a marine serpentine system will bolt up. The pdf you linked to says the accessories will be available as a kit... I don't see anywhere that says the standard Merc SBC stuff will bolt on and work.

[BUIZILLA]

I don't know anything from the L and LT platform that will interchange with the LS platform..

[Carl C]

Hey Foggy, I got a new sea strainer.....:popcorn:

[fogducker III]

Hey Foggy, I got a new sea strainer.....:popcorn:

LMFAO at least you understand my woes Carl...:wink:


I am just trying to find out what I can do with this tired Scorpion to make my boat a little "nicer" ride........ I honestly appreciate all the input but some is just negative.........:frown:

[VetteLT193]

LMFAO at least you understand my woes Carl...:wink:


I am just trying to find out what I can do with this tired Scorpion to make my boat a little "nicer" ride........ I honestly appreciate all the input but some is just negative.........:frown:

Hey bro, don't take my feedback as negative by any stretch. there are three kinds of ways to approach our type of boating. The first is open check book. Think of the little 20 Cigs out there with a couple hundred grand to back it up. The next is the leave it alone / stock crowd. Then there is where most of us fall... The guys that like to do stuff, you know feed some speed to our rides. Add some custom touches... do it all within some realm of a budget.

I think you, me, carl, and a most of us are in that last group. Certainly do your research up front so you aren't left too broke to use the boat when it is finished. I'm trying to be as realistic as possible on this type of swap. It has been done in the automotive world time and time again and that is the best place to learn from because our engines, although marine grade, are auto engines in the beginning.

Anyway... you could have the baddest 18 out there if you went with this swap. No one can cut you down on that...If it something you must have then roll with it. on the other hand, Merc takes trades on new engines. Might be worth a call to see what you can get for your engine on a new 383/400 scorp. or call to see what it would cost to re work your current engine by a reputable shop.

For me it's all about the balance of $$$ vs. outcome. I wish I was one of the Cig 20 guys and could blow money to make the baddest boat out there but that just isn't the reality that I live in. :wink:

Also... never forget your boat is already bad to the bone :cool:

[MOP]

Looking at the PDF it sure looks like the bell housing is the same pattern, have my fingers crossed that it will go your way. Even the motor mount location looks good, would like to see a larger capacity pan though.

Phil

[mrfixxall]

LMFAO at least you understand my woes Carl...:wink:


I am just trying to find out what I can do with this tired Scorpion to make my boat a little "nicer" ride........ I honestly appreciate all the input but some is just negative.........:frown:

jeremy want me to duild you a 416 cid 550hp ls na ?

ill send it back with your x :screwy:

[fogducker III]

Hey bro, don't take my feedback as negative by any stretch. there are three kinds of ways to approach our type of boating. The first is open check book. Think of the little 20 Cigs out there with a couple hundred grand to back it up. The next is the leave it alone / stock crowd. Then there is where most of us fall... The guys that like to do stuff, you know feed some speed to our rides. Add some custom touches... do it all within some realm of a budget.

I think you, me, carl, and a most of us are in that last group. Certainly do your research up front so you aren't left too broke to use the boat when it is finished. I'm trying to be as realistic as possible on this type of swap. It has been done in the automotive world time and time again and that is the best place to learn from because our engines, although marine grade, are auto engines in the beginning.

Anyway... you could have the baddest 18 out there if you went with this swap. No one can cut you down on that...If it something you must have then roll with it. on the other hand, Merc takes trades on new engines. Might be worth a call to see what you can get for your engine on a new 383/400 scorp. or call to see what it would cost to re work your current engine by a reputable shop.

For me it's all about the balance of $$$ vs. outcome. I wish I was one of the Cig 20 guys and could blow money to make the baddest boat out there but that just isn't the reality that I live in. :wink:

Also... never forget your boat is already bad to the bone :cool:

I have to say, you have class.........you expressed yourself in a way that even I can understand......:wink:

You are 100% right about where "most" of us stand and I will do a little more research before I do anything........thanks for the input and I will try and keep my ears and eyes open........:yes:

[fogducker III]

Looking at the PDF it sure looks like the bell housing is the same pattern, have my fingers crossed that it will go your way. Even the motor mount location looks good, would like to see a larger capacity pan though.

Phil

I think you are right Phil, the mounts are right, not 100% about the housing but 99% there, agree on the pan......the reading continues........:wink::crossfing:

[fogducker III]

jeremy want me to duild you a 416 cid 550hp ls na ?

ill send it back with your x :screwy:

If you build that for me and it is a straight drop in, I will trade you for the Ex and you can keep her.......:wink:

[handfulz28]

As far as parts transfers, the "accessories" themselves will work. It's the BRACKETS that don't transfer. And the routing of hoses may be different. And the water pump plumbing is different. Fuel system "might" be usable, but verify capacity; of course mounting will be different. ETC...

Here's a source for exhaust:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55938

Front engine mount location is different, but depending on how you bolt it up, it may not be a big deal.

My jury is out on bellhousing bolt pattern. I thnk pattern is consistent, but input shaft length has to be checked. Flywheel may be different so coupler bolt pattern has to be checked.

The "marinized" version you see in the pictures from GM is no different than the road-going versions. What makes the difference is all these other parts that the engine suppliers develop to actually be able to bolt the thing in a boat. That also includes "marine-specific" ECU programming.

The LS motor in a boat is not new. You might try getting hold of Harbormaster/Victory and see how theirs is coming along.

[osur866]

J, I have kicked around this idea also as an upcoming winter project but am also looking at reworking what I already have, Whipple makes a real nice kit for my 6.2 along with a lil head work and a slight increase in cam I figure I can squeeze around 590-600 hp out of the ole' girl but the LSA is the new era of engines and is the future for sure. Steve

[CaribouLou]

Hey Jeremy, my boat broke, again :popcorn: