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wufwee
04-17-2010, 09:10 PM
Went out on my new (to me) 1990 16 w/4.3 v-6 today. I was having a great time. I was out checking my max. rpm's for a possible prop change, getting used to the boat, etc. There was a lot of wind-blown chop, about 1 ft., and that Donzi was flying, every now and then, I could feel the boat lift up and the stern would catch, what a great feeling. We were cruising at about 43 mph, just staying on top of the waves when all of the sudden, I could hear a rod knocking. I looked down and it hit me like a ton of bricks, NO OIL PRESSURE! I immediately cut the engine off, raised the engine cover and there was oil everywhere. The oil filter was laying in the bilge. Thankfully, some nice folks in a pontoon boat came by and towed us to the dock. I ran down to Advance Auto Parts and picked up some oil. Hoping for the best, I screwed the filter back on, disabled the Ign., spun it till I got oil pressure. Then I started the engine. Everything sounded good until I applied a little throttle. Sounds like a rod knocking to me, and now I'll have to do a rebuild. The filter was on the boat when I bought it, but maybe I should have checked it? Oh well....

Just Say N20
04-17-2010, 09:28 PM
I wouldn't beat myself up too badly if I were you.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience.

I have purchased 16 boats, and I have never done a pre-purchase evaluation thorough enough that it included checking to make sure the oil filter was tight enough.

Where do you stop, once you start down that road? Do you pull the out-drive apart before each use just to make sure the impeller is OK. Sure it is pumping water, but it could have a couple of vanes that are ripped and about to come off.

Keep us posted on what you find after a mechanic has had a chance to check it out for you.

Carl C
04-17-2010, 09:31 PM
That sucks. Can you do it yourself? If it were me I'd be out there tomorrow yanking the engine. Hopefully it just needs a bottom end rebuild. From experience I'd avoid a crank that has been machined more than .010.

wufwee
04-17-2010, 09:42 PM
Thanks Bill, I'm trying not to blame myself. Was I driving it too hard? Who knows. The good news is I have an automotive shop with great tech's that can hook me up. I also deal with a machine shop that is second to none. Before I bought this boat, I talked to several friends that have experience with these engines and they all spoke highly of them. Hopefully, I'll be back out in a couple of weeks. I was thinking about converting to a small block, but I think the 4.3 will stay because it is so good on fuel economy and not bad on power either.

wufwee
04-17-2010, 09:51 PM
Carl, I'll bet the crank on this one is scored pretty bad. This will be the second rebuild for this one. I have no idea who rebuilt it or what was done, but once I get it out and apart, we'll see. By the way why no more than .010 under? Are these cranks hardened? Thanks, Russ

mrfixxall
04-17-2010, 10:06 PM
Carl, I'll bet the crank on this one is scored pretty bad. This will be the second rebuild for this one. I have no idea who rebuilt it or what was done, but once I get it out and apart, we'll see. By the way why no more than .010 under? Are these cranks hardened? Thanks, Russ


that sux!! its a shame,just scraped one with a cracked block,,less then 75 hr's on it crank was mint and so were the rod's and pistons..

did you change the oil?? or did the guy you bought the boat from do it or have it done @ his dealer??

if it was done before you got it i would call the old owner and ask,couldnt hurt..if a copany did it their insurance should pay for their f- up..

wufwee
04-18-2010, 04:20 AM
The previous owner had a friend of his that works in a marina change the oil on the side. Rather than listen to his excuses, I'll just fix it and move on. I've always had a motto about buying something used " if it breaks in half, I've got two of them".

Carl C
04-18-2010, 07:24 AM
Carl, I'll bet the crank on this one is scored pretty bad. This will be the second rebuild for this one. I have no idea who rebuilt it or what was done, but once I get it out and apart, we'll see. By the way why no more than .010 under? Are these cranks hardened? Thanks, Russ

Two reasons. Cranks are case hardened which means only the surface is hard. A .030 grind can cut the hardness off. Also if a crank is so messed up that it need to be turned .030 chances are it got so hot when it failed that it softened the metal. I wrenched on cars for years and this is from experience.

Go .010 under or preferably with a new crank. Hopefully you didn't ruin a rod. You probably spun a rod bearing but the rod may be OK. You need to pull the crank, put the rod cap on and measure with an inside micrometer.

Sweet Cheekz
04-18-2010, 09:48 AM
The previous owner had a friend of his that works in a marina change the oil on the side. Rather than listen to his excuses, I'll just fix it and move on. I've always had a motto about buying something used " if it breaks in half, I've got two of them".

Thats a good approach cause you won't get anything from them anyway , you will have a new motor to rely on and you still paid way less than a new boat.
Parnell

mike o
04-18-2010, 10:37 AM
Mike (Trueser) installed a rocking new omc 4.3l 260hp efi in Xmedocs 1990 16. He had a cracked block in his 90 omc 4.3. Maybe Trueser still has his old 4.3 block kicking around???:crossfing:

Carl C
04-18-2010, 11:24 AM
A rod knock is not necessarily catastrophic! You may only need a regound crank (.010) kit and lower gasket kit. :crossfing:

mrfixxall
04-18-2010, 04:00 PM
for the amount you spend on getting it turned, i wouldn't even waste my time on getting the crank machined..400.00 and you can get it new...

http://store.areperformance.com/9-43l-3480-5700b.aspx

Crank,rod and main bearings, for a xtra 250.00 you can get all new rods...

wufwee
04-18-2010, 05:30 PM
I came back from the lake today, and pulled my engine out of the boat. Next step is to mount it on a stand, pull the sump, and see what I've got. The one thing I've got going for me (Ihope), is I wasn't turning a lot of rpm's, and as soon as I saw the problem, I shut it down and didn't try to restart until I had oil in it. I really appreciate all the advice and links!

BlownCrewCab
04-19-2010, 07:51 AM
Dang, I threw a New 4.3 crank in the dumpster 3 months ago (tried ebay but nobody wanted it) I do have a set of lightened/weight matched/re-sized 4.3 rods that I'll let you have for a fraction of what it cost to re size them.

MOP
04-19-2010, 08:54 AM
Possible alternative! If the 4.3 shows more then you think might be time to stuff a SB in the hole, more poop and increased value which you should recoup the cost when you sell.

wufwee
04-19-2010, 11:48 AM
The SB option sounds like it might be a good one. I know I have to get manifolds to do the conversion, what about thru hull exhaust? I know I may sound a little strange, but I like it quiet when idling around. Would a silent choice be expensive, or even doable? I don't want my neighbors saying "oh there goes Russ with that loud boat again". Tonight, I'll roll the engine over on a stand, and see how bad things look. The one thing that concerns me is this engine has been rebuilt before. I don't know who built it, or how far they went. I've seen some folks call head gaskets a rebuild.

mrfixxall
04-19-2010, 11:58 AM
The SB option sounds like it might be a good one. I know I have to get manifolds to do the conversion, what about thru hull exhaust? I know I may sound a little strange, but I like it quiet when idling around. Would a silent choice be expensive, or even doable? I don't want my neighbors saying "oh there goes Russ with that loud boat again". Tonight, I'll roll the engine over on a stand, and see how bad things look. The one thing that concerns me is this engine has been rebuilt before. I don't know who built it, or how far they went. I've seen some folks call head gaskets a rebuild.


i got the manifolds!! brand new sierra 200 bux + the ride,all the parts on yout engine will work on a 350 except the intake :)

silent choice systems will work,,check ebay..their cheep on their..

19donziz29
04-19-2010, 06:10 PM
This is Matt Truesers Son. We got rid of xedmoc old 4.3. That thing had some major issues! We actually put two new small blocks from michigan motorz in my Z29 and they have been perfect - 315hp vortecs. Prices are great from what I've found. This is also where we got the new 4.3 to put in xedmoc 16. I've also driven a 16 out at Powell that had the same motor I put in the Z29 from Michigan Motorz. That thing was a blast, the owner is a member on the site, but it was a few years back and I can't remember his screenname. Check out the site!
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/

wufwee
04-20-2010, 06:47 PM
Just wanted to post an update on the rebuild. I got the engine to the shop, hung it on a chainfall, dumped the oil. Went to mount it on the engine stand, but had no SAE bolts to fit (we work on Saabs, all metric). I did notice a freeze plug about to fall out, and the Stbd. exhaust manifold had been leaking due to a loose nut on the stud. I got home and cleaned the oil out of the bilge. There was a rust stain from the manifold leak. Tomorrow, I'll flip it over and see how bad the crank looks. I thought long and hard about a small block, but a lot depends on the damage done to the 4.3. So far, I've got $8000. in this boat, and I don't want to get too upside down in it. It is an awsome 16, with custom guages, great interior, and best of all, it's white with a red stripe.

wufwee
04-21-2010, 06:11 PM
I took the engine apart today and got it over to the machine shop. The cylinder bores looked excellent, and the pistons looked like new. It was bored .040 over. The crankshaft had two rod bearing surfaces that were a little scuffed along with two rod bearings down to the copper. These rods also got a little hot. The machinist was thinking the oil filter blew off due to a stuck pressure relief valve in the oil pump. I think it loosened up due to not being tightened enough. There was no tearing of threads in the oil filter or the mount. I'm going to find a way to insure the oil filter doesn't come off again, that's for sure! He'll let me know about the crankshaft and the rods tomorrow. I should be back on the water in about 1 1/2 weeks. I noticed two oil pressure senders. This engine has a replacement Mallory Dist. Does any one know if the original OMC Ign. system had a low oil pressure cut off feature? Is there one available aftermarket? (Apparently I could use one). Thanks, Russ

Carl C
04-21-2010, 06:23 PM
Sounds good but I don't know why the pistons were removed. Now you will have to hope the new rings seal without boring the block.You know you will have to hone the cylds and replace the rings don't you? Idealy the block should be bored but it might be maxed out now and then you'd need a new set of pistons too. It's not unusual to find brgs worn down to the copper.

wufwee
04-21-2010, 06:39 PM
The main reason I removed the pistons was "debris" from the oil pan when I turned the engine over. I also wanted to have my man check the block, and replace the freeze plugs. I really trust this guy, he has done all of my machine work since about 1986, never a problem. The only problem is, all of my engine experience thus far has been on Saab 4cyl. engines!

wufwee
04-21-2010, 06:44 PM
Forgot one thing: the timing chain had a ton of play, several degrees of cam retard, no doubt. This all might have been a good thing between the freeze plug, manifold leak and a worn out timing chain.

mrfixxall
04-21-2010, 08:09 PM
with all that heat going on in the bottom end have the block line honed..also if their is a oil cooler replace it,don't try and flush it it wont work..also replace the rubber hoses that go to the remote oil filter,hot chips of metal will embed them selves in the rubber..

Walt. H.
04-22-2010, 11:51 PM
Wufwee,
Here the answer to what you asked in your above post:
quote: I'm going to find a way to insure the oil filter doesn't come off again, that's for sure!

This is a simple trick I learned yr's ago that I used on my race car back in the 70's and still do with the the spin on filter on my hi-reving GSX-R 750 M/cycle.

Attach and secure a s/s hose clamp to your filter, either at the very top or bottom then safety wire it pulling in the tightening position to a near by bolt. Make a oblong washer tab with another small hole to run the wire thru it which will replace the original washer for that bolt / nut or small screw and you'll be good to go with piece of mind that its never going to loosen by itself again do to vibration or harmonics.
But all bets are off when a rod bolt lets go and throws a connecting rod thru it. :nilly: Hah ha!

wufwee
04-23-2010, 11:27 AM
Walt, the picture you posted makes me feel lucky! I was thinking of almost exactly the same way you described. The former owner was using a racing oil filter, very large and I would think heavy when full of oil. Any advantage to a racing filter or would a stock filter be sufficient?

Walt. H.
04-24-2010, 01:05 AM
Walt, the picture you posted makes me feel lucky! I was thinking of almost exactly the same way you described. The former owner was using a racing oil filter, very large and I would think heavy when full of oil. Any advantage to a racing filter or would a stock filter be sufficient?
That pic is from a bad day at Raceway Park in EnglishTown NJ. sept 1974, so the painful ringing in my ears from the noise that day is now only a slight hiss.
The main advantage for a big race filter would be the extra oil it holds but even I use a stock capacity oil filter in my boats, I don't think weight is an issue as compare to not being tightened properly or the neglect of possibly leaving the old O'ring behind if it was stuck and left unnoticed and later blewout making the filter loose followed by unscrewing itself?
But if that happened i'm sure you would have noticed a filter O-ring in the bilge after you pulled the engine.
As the old expression goes: Chit happens!
And thats one thing i'm sure won't repeat itself with you in the future!
WH

Cuda
04-24-2010, 07:38 AM
I've rebuilt engine without turning the crank at all, but they hadn't thrown a rod either. The bearings are made of a much softer material. The crank may be ok, but in a boat I might change it just because it's so much trouble to pull the engine. I used the car as an engine cradle when working on a car. :)


The 4.3 is a good engine. It's a 350 with two cylinders lopped off. GM had made the SBC since 1955.

wufwee
04-24-2010, 08:52 AM
I told my machinist that I wanted to be able to turn this engine 5000 RPM's all day (actually, I've sent the prop out to have it backed down to 4600). Still unsure about the crankshaft. I stopped over there to deliver a Saab piston he ordered from us and the block had been vatted, freeze plugs removed, and he said the bores would be ok with a light honing. Pistons are ok and the rings get replaced. This will turn out to be a good thing mainly due to the freeze plug about to fall out. I can't imagine properly installing a freeze plug with the engine in the boat with the stringer in the way. This engine also had a high volume oil pump, we're going to change over to high pressure.

BUIZILLA
04-24-2010, 08:57 AM
This engine also had a high volume oil pump, we're going to change over to high pressure. i'm curious as to the reasoning for that?

wufwee
04-24-2010, 09:06 AM
With out a higher capacity sump, the high volume pump could pump the oil at such a rate that it runs out, and the bearings could be starved of oil. This is what my machinist tells me, and like I said, I've trusted him for 25 years without any of his work coming back.

BUIZILLA
04-24-2010, 09:09 AM
why not restrict the top end oil flow and keep the pump ya got?

wufwee
04-24-2010, 09:20 AM
Got me there. He is telling me to replace the pump anyway due to the possibility of the oil pressure relief valve hanging up and tossing off the filter. I've learned to do what he says, otherwise any problems I have would be my fault. " I told you to replace that oil pump, now look what happened". Kind of like not listening to your doctor. I'm really not in a position to second guess him.

Walt. H.
04-25-2010, 12:00 AM
why not restrict the top end oil flow and keep the pump ya got?
What Jim said, as in put a pill in the block to restrict the oil flow to the cyl heads, you want high volume not hi pressure but keep it simple as a stock rebuild.

wufwee
04-25-2010, 06:56 AM
I will talk to the machinist Mon. AM. thanks for the sound advice!

wufwee
04-26-2010, 06:58 PM
While waiting for the engine to come back, I decided to send my mystery prop out to the shop. I have no idea of the pitch. It's a four blade that has been repaired, with the #'s ground off. I asked them to check the pitch for me and advise on adjusting or replacing that one. I'm turning 5000 RPM's @ WOT. I told them I wanted to back it down to about 4600, with a little more top end speed. Top speed now is 48mph, I'd like to get around 55 mph give or take. Does anyone have a recommended gear lube for an OMC? This being my first I/O, I was wondering about upper gear lubrication. Is this a seperate drain/fill from the lower gears. The seller told me it had just been serviced. I'm thinking the same guy that left the oil filter loose serviced it as well. Thanks, Russ

Walt. H.
04-26-2010, 11:29 PM
For gear lube:
Evinrude/Johnson HPF-XR Synthetic blend is a good choice to use, and the lower and top gear oil is all connected so proper fill level is important.

wufwee
04-27-2010, 05:53 PM
Thanks Walt. The prop will be back by Fri. They say it's gonna be ok, and they will get me down to 4600 RPM's. I guess they change the pitch and cup of the prop. For $140. that's better than having to buy a new one right now. I really want to get used to this boat, I'm 53, owned boats since I was 6, and have never been in anything quite like that Sweet 16 other than a ride in a Jersey Racing skiff. That is quite a ride. Engine will be back on Thurs. I'll be on the water again in 1 1/2 weeks.

wufwee
05-11-2010, 06:37 PM
I decided to have the rotating assembly balanced... that's the holdup until the end of the week. I should get the engine going back together on Friday. I sent my prop out to a shop and had them cup and balance it to reduce the RPM's to 4600. Murphy's Prop shop in Norfolk, Va. They did a great job, the prop looks brand new, and has noticeable changes. The problem I just noticed is the splines for the prop extend beyond the hub of the prop. The prop nut doesn't tighten the prop, it slides on the shaft about 3/8". Is this a problem? Or am I making too much of it? It seems that would only be a problem in Rev. with the prop sliding into the nut. Is there a washer for this type of gap? Also, one last dumb question, I know to gain full access to this site, I need to send some money to Scott. How is his last name spelled? I have his address, and I need to contribute. Thanks for all the great advice, Russ

CHACHI
05-11-2010, 07:13 PM
Scott can be reached at Victory Marine, 713-910-2000.

Banner ad on the site.

Ken

mrfixxall
05-11-2010, 08:46 PM
I decided to have the rotating assembly balanced... that's the holdup until the end of the week. I should get the engine going back together on Friday. I sent my prop out to a shop and had them cup and balance it to reduce the RPM's to 4600. Murphy's Prop shop in Norfolk, Va. They did a great job, the prop looks brand new, and has noticeable changes. The problem I just noticed is the splines for the prop extend beyond the hub of the prop. The prop nut doesn't tighten the prop, it slides on the shaft about 3/8". Is this a problem? Or am I making too much of it? It seems that would only be a problem in Rev. with the prop sliding into the nut. Is there a washer for this type of gap? Also, one last dumb question, I know to gain full access to this site, I need to send some money to Scott. How is his last name spelled? I have his address, and I need to contribute. Thanks for all the great advice, Russ


the answer to your prop nut ?

you need to get a shallow style prop kit with a shallow splined top washer.

it looks like this.

http://www.tacomapropeller.com/23021/products/Mercury-Quicksilver-Receiver-Washer.html

wufwee
05-27-2010, 08:47 PM
Quick update, I had the rotating assembly balanced. This should make a huge difference in the life of the engine. The block is assembled with the heads and intake torqued. Next step is the oil pan, then I'll bolt on the accessories. So far, so good. Everything's torqued and I'm using assemby lube. Break in oil will be from Joe Gibbs racing for the first few weeks of running, then I'll go to 10w40, and finally, Mobil 1. No more racing oil filters, I'll stick with a high quality stock filter.

jonzis donzi
05-27-2010, 09:33 PM
I also have a 1990 sweet 16 with a 4.3 liter with a 4 bbl carb. Mine runs 53 to 55 at 4600 to 4800 rpm. I've gotten huge air with this boat and have only owned it for about a year. I've got the original manual and it states specifically that multi-viscosity oil is not recommended. Even if it says on the motor to use say, 10w40, it states to disregard this as it is for automobiles not boat motors. Only use oil such as sae 30, 20w, or10w and gives ambient temperature ranges for each. Just a little food for thought.

wufwee
05-28-2010, 05:35 AM
You know that's a great piece of advise. I had forgotten about the conversation with the tech. man at Mallory. He told me the same exact thing. My machinist is a car guy, and he probably isn't up on all that. I won't use a multi-viscosity oil after break in, for sure. I hope mine runs as fast as yours, we'll see in about a week.

wufwee
06-06-2010, 07:33 PM
Today was a big day, I pre-oiled then started the engine. It sounds great. We were going to head up to the lake, but the weather looked like it was going to change for the worse. Now I'll do a break in, any suggestions on when the first oil change should be? I was thinking of changing it to a straight 30 weight for the next 2 oil changes, then going to synthetic after that. The machine shop says change it after 500 miles, but being a boat engine, it's always going uphill. Any ideas as to what the hours would be to be equivalent to 500 miles? Hopefully the next post I write will be about how good the boat performed! Thanks, Russ

BUIZILLA
06-06-2010, 07:43 PM
straight 40..

mrfixxall
06-06-2010, 09:03 PM
Today was a big day, I pre-oiled then started the engine. It sounds great. We were going to head up to the lake, but the weather looked like it was going to change for the worse. Now I'll do a break in, any suggestions on when the first oil change should be? I was thinking of changing it to a straight 30 weight for the next 2 oil changes, then going to synthetic after that. The machine shop says change it after 500 miles, but being a boat engine, it's always going uphill. Any ideas as to what the hours would be to be equivalent to 500 miles? Hopefully the next post I write will be about how good the boat performed! Thanks, Russ


I ran mine one day on 40w then seitched the following weekend to m! 15w50 and that was 10 yrs ago :)

Walt. H.
06-06-2010, 10:11 PM
Today was a big day, I pre-oiled then started the engine. It sounds great. We were going to head up to the lake, but the weather looked like it was going to change for the worse. Now I'll do a break in, any suggestions on when the first oil change should be? I was thinking of changing it to a straight 30 weight for the next 2 oil changes, then going to synthetic after that. The machine shop says change it after 500 miles, but being a boat engine, it's always going uphill. Any ideas as to what the hours would be to be equivalent to 500 miles? Hopefully the next post I write will be about how good the boat performed! Thanks, Russ
I'd run it the first 25 minute in neutral varying the rpm's but not letting the rpms go below 1500 if you're breaking in a new cam & lifters then change the oil & filter to get rid of the assembly lube and other break-in particals thats caught in the filter, then refill with your favorite brand of good straight 30-W and run it easy for the first two hr's varying the rpm's up and down on plane speed but not full bore until you have at least 3 to 4-hr's of run time on it then open it slowly every once in a while but only for a brief moment.
Do this for the first ten hr's, change the oil & filter once again and run it as you wish and change the oil & filter every 40 to 60 hr's as normal maintenence.
Best of luck for a care free and safe summer....
WH

wufwee
06-15-2010, 04:57 AM
Sunday was a much better day on the lake. After running the break in oil, I did an oil change. The boat ran flawless, no problems, no leaks, everything works. Now I can resume learning my new Donzi. Thanks folks, for all your expert help. It is much appreciated, Russ

upnorth
06-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Stay away from machine work on cranks. I had one done a few years ago by a very reputable engine shop and it broke the first ride out at 3200 rpm. Took out the whole motor, waterpump, oil pan. etc. Hade to replace the entire engine. That was only .010" under.